Pasco County Board Workshop - Parks, Recreation, and Natural Resources Master Plan

Hey,

the teacher in me comes out where

good morning.

Good morning. I would like to call the Pasco County Commissioners. Parks master plan workshop of March 17, 2026. At this time, silence all electronic devices and mute your phones. Please rise to the invocation pledge of allegiance.

Gracious God, we invite you into our discussions today. Unite our hearts and guide our conversations with wisdom and patience. Help us to seek solutions that honor you and benefit everyone involved. In your name, amen.

Amen.

Amen. I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Please call the role.

District one, Commissioner Oakley.

District two, Commissioner Wman

here.

District three, Commissioner Starky.

I have Commissioner Starky on the phone. District four, Commissioner Jagger

here.

District five, Chairman Mariano

here.

Thank you. Welcome to this year's parks master plan workshop. A special thanks to the staff who organized the event.

I guess I'll turn it to Mike Carbella.

Great. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the board here today. Um we um you know, I've I've spoken a long time here with with Kathy Pearson and Keith Wy on the status of parks. We've had a master plan. We're two years in now to a uh to an impact fee uh increase that's been uh uh greatly needed in being invested into into new parks infrastructure. But like any plan, um as as time goes on, we recognize the need for changes or or potentials and possibilities to pivot. And so I've asked Keith Wy here today to to come forward and give you a uh presentation on the current status of parks, our parks master plan, um projects that we have underway, as well as potential opportunities that we might like to get the board to uh to discuss. So with that, I'll turn it over to Keith.

All right. Thanks, Mike. Good morning. Um so there was a running joke when we were prepping that since it's St. Patrick's Day, I should have brought like a a pot of gold or at least a reference to some pot of gold because that's what we're going to be talking about is money. But uh uh anyway, um what I'd like to do is start with just kind of a quick a quick overview of the agenda. And before I actually dive into that, I'd like to introduce my team. So, everyone sitting up here from my from my department, fiscal related, planning related, we wouldn't even be able to put this together if um if they weren't on the team. So, thank you very much everyone. I'm not going to call you out and and if I call you out then you think I'm going to ask you to come to the podium. So, we're going through

Have them stand Keith so we can see who they are.

Yep. Go ahead.

Mention their names.

Yeah. So, we have TJ, Louise, Tammy, Shannon, and Chay. Thank you. All right. So, what we're hoping to cover today is just a background from 2015. We're going to talk about the parks master plan, the GO bond uh obligations back in 2018, how we came to our level of service analysis, the impact fee study in 2022. Then, as Mike referenced, we're going to talk about current capital projects um by zone, estimated cost, and then status. And then um I think the main purpose of this meeting, we're going to talk about what we're calling opportunities and new park projects as they've been presented to me over the last several years. And then I'm going to talk loosely about some recommendations and prioritization based on funding. And that way we hopefully we can have a discussion on next steps. So the 2050 master plan some key takeaways is that it really focused on community needs. It defined it helped us define our level of service and it also conducted a facilities assessment report for each facility. That's pretty much summarized in what we what that document calls appendix D. But the important part of that effort is it provided the framework for kind of where we are today and most importantly the impact fee study that we did back in 2022. It incorporated all kinds of uh public comment, stakeholder meetings u which I'll get to on the next slide and then it also provided the backdrop for the go bond request that we we did in 2018. This is just an overview of one of the maps basically identifying all of the park services at the time. It identified existing services, future needs based on growth and then identified um where we needed to grow in terms of new new district parks and then any expansions to existing facilities. So as you can see we have 14 out of 34 parks were not meeting expectations. That could have been the size the condition. Two of 34 um listed were exceeding expectations. Uh just my guess on that would be those were probably the some of the newer facilities like Wesley Chapel District Park and Land of Lakes at the time. And then most importantly, it it it identified the need for two or nine six actually new district parks and then three major expansions. And that was back in 2015. This is just an example of all the assessment uh like the stakeholder uh input that we did. You can tell we did workshops, we did community meetings. I I actually was not in the parks department at this time. I was actually u managing the environmental ants program, but I was a stakeholder on the steering committee. So I was I was very much involved in the process. level of service map again identifying our future needs tied to development concurrency. So Beexley, Connor, VP, Mag Valley, Winfields, the replacement of the sports campus at the time historically was supposed to be a district park became a a tourism um asset and very successful um project and then the three major expansions. So,

fast forward to 2018, we used a lot of that information to build the request to the general public for the GO bond request. Um, those of you that were here know that that passed 72% voter approval. We got $20 million. We pretty much have that fund spent down as of now. I think there might be a million and a half left from the 20. Um, these are some of the things that we did. We did Pineh Hill Park, which was a full renovation. That was a pivot from the overall original list when we actually did the bond back in 2018, but we really wanted to have a community impact. So, we f we went all in on that. Those of you that have seen that project, it's a transformation out there. The community is very very excited about it. Um, I'm actually very proud of that project because it's easy to to take money from impact fees and build where growth is happening. not easy to take a project that is 40, 35, 40 years old where there isn't a funding source and be able to make that level of impact for the community. So, I know my team is very, very proud of that uh that work effort. And then throughout the inventory, we did a bunch of improvements, facility modernization, um other upgrades in our wreck complexes. Uh we learned that concession stands no longer cost $350,000. uh they cost somewhere around 800 and 8 850,000 which is still uh to me shocking. Uh most all of the major playgrounds in the inventory were replaced. Um back then a a what we would call a major playground a large playground would be anywhere between you know 35 or 60,000 wait

I guess I'll ask I'll wait till the questions or I I just when you talk about how much a concession stand costs, it blows my mind when a batting cage costs $250,000.

That's ridiculous. Like we we there's got to be a way that we can tone it down. I mean, to not have a batting cage cost $250,000 just like we've done with fire stations, for example. We've toned it down. I don't know if it's engineering that's that's driving the cost of these things, just being overly paranoid by the latigious nature of our our world. But there's no reason just like we see with bathroom facilities for other departments being a million dollars. For us to succeed, we have to stop the madness of of the expense of of these basic things. You take four used telephone poles, six telephone poles and some net, and you have a batting cage and some clay. I just I can't fathom that a batting cage costs $250,000. It it it's that's crazy to me. So, I don't know what we can do. And and the ones I played with, they're still up. I mean, they're limping. They're 30 some years old now, but they're still there. And just to make do, you take some uh zip ties and hold the net up. So, for us to engineer something and build quarter million dollar batting cages, I I just don't understand. why we have to do it that way or why we're doing it that way.

Commissioner, I think we're all um we're all shocked at the prices, too. It's tied to spec. You're right. I mean, there's some things we can do. Um we we've been working off the the specification that we've established at Starky Ranch District Park. Um h it's mostly about integ integrity of the actual infrastructure quite honestly. Um the thought process at some of these specs is if you build it to last, you you won't have to replace it in 10 years, you know. Um but that's something we can definitely look at. Uh I regarding the concessions about halfway through the GO bond, we were contemplating remodeling versus actually knocking down and and rebuilding. But the issue that we saw there was that the size of the old template, the communities out outgrew those. So we needed to basically start over. But but I

I mean you see how much foods are pumped out of food trucks and little food trailers.

So I don't know. I I think I think we need to take a look how we make it work and stretch these dollars further.

Understood. Understood.

Keith, let me ask a question too. Um

as far as the the concession stands, uh we're making them out of brick, I mean

concrete block, etc. Have have you looked at like metal buildings? It seems to be a pretty prominent thing nowadays where you can get a company to come in, have it all prefabbed, they put it up and go. Um my brother's building a barn to minium up in in Massachusett up in Maine and they sent all the stuff to go in had just put it together and a lot less expensive and pretty good size good size building. Have you looked at those at all?

We have not. We've been rolling with the standard that we that we inherited. Um, but I I think again to Commissioner Weightman's point, we can we can look at the specifications to bring the cost down. And that that's kind of one of the things we're going to get to, you know, once I finish my presentation is um opportunities to kind of achieve what we set out to do in the plan based on what we're seeing in terms of costs. Regardless of, I think, the spec, I think there's several folks in the room here that deal with construction. you know, since COVID, we've seen, you know, land values and construction values spike, and quite honestly, they've come down a little bit, maybe 10%. But they're still pretty much stuck there. So, um, commodify the specification. I still think the costs are going to be significantly higher than what they were five or six years ago.

Um,

no, Seth, uh, Seth, I had the same, uh, comment when I had a meeting with Keith and I wondered, can we just build them ourselves? Would it be cheaper? Even the I don't know if you didn't say how much a field costs. That was shocking.

Yeah.

Yeah. And um I just wondered if you know back in the day, I don't know if you still do it. It was the parks department that built those shelters in Starky Wilderness Park and the cabins. So would it make sense to build our own?

We got a bunch of labor about a quarter mile down the road.

So that was my comment.

Mr. Uh Keith, I was going to ask the question, do you balance life cycle costs with the initial cost of construction? You know, notwithstanding certain types of construction will will last longer.

Yes.

Um and and balancing replacement costs and things. I I mean, I think it might be good to give the board an indication, especially on your specifications.

I think you need to scrub them obviously and and look at that. Um, but we do want to balance, of course, good facilities that are functional, uh, but will also last and and I think that's that's also, uh, something that that needs to make sure it's part of the consideration.

Absolutely. And Mike, we do do that. And I think, um, do we have that in this presentation? No. But, uh, but point taken, Commissioner. Understood.

Agreed.

Um, all right. Just to run through this list because I think it's important to show the good work. We um we did tons of fencing, irrigation, lighting, and boardwalk replacements. Uh we focused heavily on the redesign at Ankote River Park, which is uh Commissioner Starky, pretty much 99% permanent.

I don't believe

Cruise Lake Wilderness Park. We replaced the tower and then we're working on a renovation of the existing Lando Lake skate park. All right, fast forward to 2022. Um this is where we per statute we uh ran through the impact fee study for parks specifically. We focused on a plan-based approach versus consumptive which basically means that we have a very specific project list that was tied through the impact fee study. Um you see below here we have in that process we had to establish our level of service standards which is for community park is 20,000 individuals district park is 55 and then our natural resources park or wilderness parks are 85,000. It's important to note that neighborhood parks are not included as an eligible expenditure underneath the existing impact fee ordinance. Um and so they're not included in the level of service. This is the plan that was presented uh to the board and approved when we did the impact fee study and it's what kind of not kind of it's effectively what replaced the 2050 master plan because the 2015 master plan we used that that baseline information in the impact fee study and then updated it at that time. So what we achieved here is we broke everything down in phases by the buildout scenario in each each area of concurrency if you will. So I attempted to highlight the projects that were concurrency driven. So what that means is through the through the zoning process concurrency trigger on the previous slide happened. The county negotiated um with the applicant at the time to set aside 80 acres or more if it was colllocated with the school board. It could be 180 acres. But effectively everything highlighted in yellow, we we the county control the land. We either issued a credit from park impact fees or we actually had the land deeded at the time. Um so I think this list is really important. Um we talk about the ability to actually through the ordinance to modify it. You have to meet all these conditions here in order to do that. Um basically you're doing a swap which means if you want to add something you're taking something else off the list effectively. And there's some other stipulations that are in there, but uh working with the county attorney's office through the adoption of the impact fee study wanted to give the board an opportunity to do that. I would say focusing back on these projects here highlighted in yellow, you have communities in the county that are expecting a park to actually happen and a largecale park facility. So, this did not turn out how I wanted. You can see it over there. Okay. So, look at this screen here. Um, this is an existing district park and community park map. What it shows is the existing parks that were already built at the time of the impact fee study. And the blue polygon shows the area of service um that we're currently meeting. Everything outside of that, it's what we're not providing park service. So when you go to this slide, this shows all of those concurrency projects with a red service area and that basically

shows what we will provide service if we build said facilities. So if you go back to here, you can see there's a lot of white on the map. That means we're not meeting service in a lot in in many parts of the county. Um, but if we go here and we stick to the plan, we're able to actually almost for the most part with the exception of Crossbar Albbar Ranch north of 52 there and 41, we're pretty much going to get all of our service areas covered if we stick to the plan that's actually um as a part of the impact fee study. What I'm going to do now is go through each individual impact fee zone starting with west. Going to give you a quick status um and and then hopefully get into the budget stuff. So this is west. What we have here is you got Anclo River Park redesign. Now that's that that's partially funded by impact fee because it's an expansion, but it is an existing facility. So impact fees cannot be used for the entire budget. Magnolia uh Valley Park. We all have talked about that many times. Newport Corners Recreation Complex, Mitchell Park expansion, and then I'm going to stop there because um everything after the first three pretty much is on hold for funding purposes. And I'm going to show actually some uh the actually impact fee revenue performance of each area. But Ancloe's 99% permitted Mag Valley and I see uh Jason and company are here um is going through a storm water permitting process. Newport Corners were in the process of taking down now. Um you know I I I heard the board pretty clearly on Two Rivers. You know try to you know if we're going to have a concurrency requirement try to take the property down as quickly as possible. So, we negotiated through zoning a very very aggressive take down schedule and so we're actively negotiating on on purchasing that 10 acres now. And oh, real quick, um, as I go through each of these areas, these projects represent what's on the on the first list that was in the capital plan tied to the impact fee study. So, I'm not there's nothing should match. If you look at the bottom number there, the estimated total for all of those projects in West is around $120 million as as of today. Okay, this is West impact fee zone projections. Uh again, they're just projections. Um but uh the first category up top is your land. So the impact fees broken down into land and facilities. So the first one's land. You can see you're getting about, you know, 522,26 and then about half a mill, basically slightly less than a half a million in land every year through FY30. And then your facilities is around 1.3. And then we have debt service almost almost at a,84,000 going across uh through FY30 and actually I think beyond. I think that's a 30-year 30-year loan. So, um I'm going to compare this to later on to budget and revenues because I think that's where the conversation gets really tricky. But, um the debt service

is what we used. We bonded Sunwest and Starky Ranch District Park, which was a fantastic thing to do because we were able to finish Starky Ranch District Park and Sun West and um instead of dragging that out over multiple years and phases. So, I think that that actually was very beneficial. This is central. In central we have Cruz Lake Park expansion, Conington District Park, the Land of Lakes uh skate park redesign, and then you your the other larger facility projects is Beexley. Uh and then Project Arthur, Lin Angeline effectively, which is going to be a wilderness park with a recreation complex. We're all in active uh permitting and design on the top three. Everything else that doesn't have any status is basically on the shelf pending funding. Here's the impact vone projections for central. Um you see central here is actually doing pretty good in land. Uh makes sense considering the development projections for the most part. Revenue projections also look much better. We do have debt service there. Um back in 2015 or 2016 the board approved 5 million to pursue voter access and uh that actually is the debt service for that. That's what we use for the Anklo River Park purchase and swap and the seed funding for the design for that project itself.

East. So east is uh turned into kind of a beast quite honestly here. So you have the date city recreation complex shelter and then you have the two main projects of DOP. We have the district park, the bike park, Bob Thomas Memorial at Two Rivers, uh, and then, uh, with Lakuchi River Park Cabins, which thanks to the storm season kind of expedited or accelerated that, um, project because the entire campground was wiped out. Um, which basically told us that the campground can't be there, so we got to put it in another location. Uh, unless it's uh maybe on 15 foot uh, uh, platforms or something like that. But uh total cost on this zone is 225 million for everything on the list. Here's east. And east is going to get a little complicated when I talk about funding because it also has VOP and connected cities, but hopefully we can I can clearly explain that. So East is also doing pretty good. You see that we're get bringing in about a million dollars a year in land facilities about 6.7 6.6 six, but we just took out an $80 million loan to advance for the Day City Recreation Complex Shelter and Two Rivers District Park. So, that's the debt service for those projects right there. Um, and it's tied to the acquisition of Two Rivers District Park.

Let me stop here a second.

Yeah. So you just bonded for the East Coast hurricane park. It's

the facility piece, not the hardening piece.

Yes. Yes.

So we've got the park piece.

It's 40 million total.

The the additional dollars we would seek from the state or the feds to harden or make it more hurricane.

We did get some or we're trying to get some.

That's what we're That's what we're attempting to do. We have opportunities.

You have funds that have already been allocated for a project and you try to go get federal funds for it. You can't supplant that.

That's That's not the intent there. No, the intent is not to supplant. No.

No. We have to build the

40 million and you could be asking for

How much did we take out in total debt? 80 million.

80 million. 20 for this specific project in

20 for this specific project. Correct. It's a $40 million project.

But what if you get state money and then you get federal money to

We can we can we can stack that. And

Yeah. Yeah, but if you got the money already allocated for a building, you can't pull back either way.

But the remainder of the cost is not covered. We We've got half of the project. We have a recreation facility. We do not have a shelter.

I know we're calling

So nothing for the building itself.

No, we have the building. We can build a rec center. I don't know if I'm making sense here. We have the budget set aside to build a recreation center. Whatever that whatever that looks like,

it would not serve as a shelter. We need the additional dollars to invest into the project. to make it that whether that's hardening, heavier construction, those those pieces

extra square footage.

Extra square footage. Correct.

So the project's not fully funded if that's your question, sir.

Well, as well as even fully funded. The more you fund it, the worse it's going to be. But if I'm taking out bonds ahead of time, then I'm paying those bonds when I don't have the money to go finish the thing off.

Well, we have the need. We have the need. We have opportunities for funding. you get the need, but the bigger opportunity is to try to get the federal and state money to offset the cost. And maybe you're going to get three quarters of the money all said and done. So to to kind of even go halfway, I think you're going

probably a little too far. Can you allocate the money elsewhere and just if you need to bring it back later, but if you clearly show that you're going to be putting it out there for that, you're going to you're you could be cutting yourself off for extra funding that could be out there. I I don't necessarily think that that that would come to fruition. I um you know, again, the strategy here was to get this teed up to be a shovel ready project and we can't get to shovel ready.

And and I'm and I'm good for the shovel ready. I think that's the ultimate way to go because once you have it shovel ready, now you can go.

But if you get shovel ready and you've already got half of it funded, you're cutting yourself out of what could be extra funding. You could I mean and and you don't necessarily I mean again you know depending on your draws with the bonds we'd have to check and see what the rules would be and sometimes you can change projects with bonds and that's that's not out of the question if if we needed to do different investments but

Keith's trying to say something.

Go ahead Keith. Um I I do not have the bond language committed to memory. Uh but I I I'm pretty certain that we had the flexibility in the bond language um if we needed to pivot on projects. So, Mr. Stark,

um remember that the CDBGDR money,

yes,

can act as a federal match to a federal

I mean it's different than um other federal money. Normally, you can't

you can use it as a match for other for other programs. That is correct. We're looking at that as a strategy.

Yeah.

Okay.

What where's the rest of that money going?

Um

because you said 80, but you're using 20 over there. So, where's $60 million?

Two rivers.

Two Rivers District.

$60 million.

So, we're gonna we're going to get to that here in a minute in terms of costs. So,

we've got a lot of concession stands.

There's 47 concession stands out there. No, I'm joking.

It's a joke.

Commissioner Mariano, can I proceed?

Okay. So, I'm going to look at Louise here to make sure I get this right. But this is the VOP and connected cities funding profiles. So VOP as we all know has the super park element. Um it was very specific in collecting money. Um there was some land uh requirements and then there's a search charge but we were required to basically collect money in its own bucket. So this is within east but it's it's still its own funding source. Um you can see that there's some loans for land that have to be paid back both to the central impact fees and elamp but um VOP has not really taken off yet in terms of revenue. You could see it's you're at 1.1 um across you know pretty much across all years. I would expect I know that through the planning district there was some changes there's no one here from planning but some incentives and some restrictions I think were lightened. So maybe the maybe the development there will will accelerate over the next few years and that will change these projections. But historically right now the OP has not been producing. Um back in 2015 2016 when connected cities came in their zoning park requirement was moved to the VOP district uh uh planning district. So there's a sub area policy that steers those funds specifically to the VOP bucket. So until the super park is officially funded and built that this mechanism is going to stay in place. So whatever you see here effectively is going to the super park project for the most part. Now we started out which I'm going to get to with around $30 million for the super park. So um we we could consider in the future if the super park gets built we can dissolve this and then all those revenues would actually go back into the east zone. I remember At one of the board meetings, I talked about this regarding connected cities and the possibility of maybe using that funding source to to establish connect that the community park and connected cities. But um as it stands right now, this is everything that's in place. BOP is actively in design both for the district park and the active park. And we'll talk a little bit about numbers here in a second. So this is um these are just some renderings of the projects that we've worked that are in in process so far today. So, here's a concept for uh VOP District Park. This is it to get everyone excited technically.

Yeah. Very nice.

Yeah. So, focused on a big event lawn space overlooking some of the topography there. Uh I think there's 10 multi-use fields, a lot of passive park area rolled into some trail networks. This is AC, this is northeast of that existing facility. This is the actual passive park, the 200 acres of the super park, which is effectively going to be like a wilderness park/bike park. These are this is this is a map of the actual trail network. This is a map of some programming there. So, you're going to pump track. You have skills progression. You have a bike playground. Um there's going to be some kind of uh coffee shop there that would be that would be run through concession produce revenue. Here is the uh Two Rivers District Park or Bob Thomas Memorial Park. This we worked with the developer on. Um since this was construct or since this was designed, we we the county actually negotiated less acreage um back to 83 approximately. And due east well west of Coats Road is going to be a surf park. So we're going to be sharing that space with a surf park. Uh pretty cool synergy. I think it'll be a pretty awesome place um if everything gets built. And then the school project is um directly uh west of the existing uh multi-purpose fields there. This is just a concept because of the loss of the acres. We're going to have to shuffle some things around and look at flood plane. But um that's what that's the other part of the the bond. Commissioner Starky is for this project right here. when when we do projects like this,

um, can we not take that storm water and turn it into an asset, rowing or something? I mean, why do we put in these little useless piles and instead of make it into a lake or something? I mean, we should be more creative with all that water.

Yeah, I I I know that like top a bank, we put trails and we activate it that way. I don't think we've ever and fishing and things like that. But I don't know if we've ever historically allowed activity within the water.

I think that's what Benderson did down Sarasota. Okay. Um they have a worldass rowing um facility there, but when they widened the highway, I think they put

Benderson's was was it was borrow pit. They converted a borrow pit into

storm water stayed wet.

So it's not storm water. It

it may have some storm water, but it was it was fill for the interstate. So, it was a big hole

and they converted it into a

rowing. There's a lot of water there. It could have been a sports asset of some sort.

Be creative with storm water is what I'm hearing. So, okay.

All right.

Now, Keith, let me go to the super park as well. So, I'm looking at you 10 fields for multi-purpose.

Yeah. on the baseball baseball softball section whatever it is you get a whole different teriguration all some small some big

I don't know why we wouldn't make it let's say eight big that can be shortened for small

I mean then you can run tournaments there if you're going to run tournaments so kids aren't traveling to go somewhere but you have it right here right now you're limited to where you can do eight ones but just for little probably little league when a little more space you could make make them fulls size park and just put the fences in. You get a larger team coming in but they major league baseball or when I say major league I mean you know older kids playing you could have more versatility.

I don't know how you move fences though.

So actually those are those are actually the larger uh those are actually adult softball field specs. So they're not your standard 220. They're actually larger. There is a smaller field there. Um, and you have to remember that if you go northeast, you have um nine nine ball fields at Burks. So when we look at a service area, you want to make sure that we're spreading out all the amenities. Um, and so what we need in that area is we don't have a place. We're getting a lot of pressure from Wesley Chapel for adult softball and we don't have a place to house them. Um, we feel like we have adequate space at at Burks for for baseball in general. And then to your point, Commissioner Mariano, if we did need to be creative in programming, we could put temporary fencing, which we have done at other facilities to facilitate, you know, either youth or adult or or senior competitive play.

Well, it seems ultimate sprints where they have a bucket. They made it versatile to run whatever they wanted to run.

Yep. We've made the mistake a couple times where we've built a fence at 220 and we needed, you know, something else and then we, you know, we have to either take it down or or then you're restricting use. So in this case, we're overdesigning and we'll have that flexibility built in. And

if you do it that way, then you can even, I think, justify using some tourist development money to say, "Okay, we built these extra fields or these extra fences in here. Tourist development is going to pay for it. So when we do have an event, they can come in."

Yeah, that reminds me. I got to talk to them about Starky Ranch District Park, too. So since we're we run so many tournaments out there. Um, but no, I'm joking sort of because I I don't think they like when I call. But

well, they're they can help sponsor an event one way or another. But again, for the fiscal capital, like you know, you help with Sun West putting out those beach volleyball tennis and and now you create revenue for people coming in there. So I think it's perfectly applicable.

Yeah, we we have a good partnership with them. So absolutely.

Is there tennis or pickle ball here?

So there's a standard outdoor courts that we would typically use. Um Yeah, this this is just a rendering. We I we we're not we don't have an we have programmatic layout, but we don't we're not that far into the design yet.

Where is this picture here on this?

What do you do you have an aerial overview?

It's two different parks. I think you're looking Yeah, Commissioner Mar that is uh that's the Bob Thomas. This is just a rendering. So,

what's going to go on in the whole big field?

So, community events mostly. Um and then sponsors.

Yeah, there's there's So, at our large district parks where we have these complexes, like you think Wesley Chapel District Park, you can go out there, you need the space to hold three to 4,000 individuals for community events. Um, so in our future designs, that that's what we're trying to capture. It's very effective um at Wesley Chapel District Park where you have Lando Lakes where you don't necessarily have that space, then you're kind of programming on fields or in parking lots. It's it's challenging. Mr. W.

Now you keep so on this site. So in our area, you know, we're famous for the hot air balloons, but that Seven Oaks keeps getting built out,

those spaces are going to go away.

Is there ability if the if the weather's right that the hot air balloon folks can

Is this big enough to where the hot air balloon folks can come in and out? There's actually formal parking, a landing or takeoff pad that it could be used for. Yeah,

it could be more of a benefit to the county versus the hot air balloon folks just kind of finding

where to go with the winds correctly because that's, you know, like seven Seven Oaks is is is growing on its last phase. So,

do you do you know what size of a space they use out there now? Because honestly, I've never outside of being in Albuquerque during the one festival, I

I would never personally go in one. I'm just not that brave. Uh but I appreciate

Yeah. you know that they're here and uh

you're on one of the highest pieces of elevation in the county in the state. So

I just figure if we're thinking creatively that

Okay.

It's definitely the starting point for that conversation because it's an event lawn. It's rather it's a rather large space.

Um I ran one on the ranch for a couple years called Celebration Pasco. The money went to the park and then the lakes. Um, that's plenty adequate to for the for the balloon glow, it's called at night when they all light on fire and we camped out the night before there. That that's plenty of room that and that's a great location because they can go,

you know, hopefully they don't want to go west. They got to go east there. But yeah, that's a great I didn't know those were still going on in the county. Yeah,

ours died with uh when 911 happened. But

so Mike, I got a just question I guess for the commissioner. So this is not something that we've done historically, but it sounds like we need to um possibly at the initial kickoff, you know, get some commissioner feedback uh in terms of these designs and we're working on several right now that we've just started. So I don't know if we do that.

I think a shared or something like that, Keith, would be a good idea. Yeah, I think that would be great.

Is that a uh an amphitheater for a concert?

They're Yeah. So, the consultant likes the idea of a a hardened like a structure there. I I think myself

amphitheater is kind of

You need to come to the mic, TJ.

Yeah.

Top right. If

you look to the right of the um gymnasium, kind of the top right corner, that's the amphitheater. This is like a like a

Oh, I see. Cuz that because that's where the hill starts.

That's where the hill goes down. Correct. Yep. Yeah. And the the building you see in the front here is just kind of like a pavilion to rent out for Okay. for for the um

Well, I can see art festivals and and community markets and all kinds of things there, right?

Yeah. I'm TJ Pashet, assistant director for parks and wreck.

That' be good space.

Yeah. So, so that that event lawn's about 6,000 square feet is what what we have programmed right now. I mean, the only negative I see for air balloons would be the the sports lighting. We have a lot of sports lighting going up around that, you know, as far as the field and stuff. I don't know how that affects that because it's not I mean hopefully they can land those balloons on hopefully they can land land those

they don't land they wouldn't land just take off yeah taking off I don't see any yeah that seems like a

No so looking at that space like downtown Newport Richie at Sims Park they have concerts almost every weekend I mean there's always something going on there so it'd be a great way to capture some revenue too

how many do they hold

I don't I don't know but I mean they have something almost every single Yeah, there.

Yeah. And a few other things, if I can

speak. A few other things that we programmed at VOP. You know, the picture you see of all the fields is Bob Thomas. This is VOP. We should we had another picture that we probably just showed you that shows all the

all the uh programming, but we have as soon as you come into the park, there's six multi-purpose fields. Um as you come in, um fully lit lit for soccer or um you know, lacrosse, whatever is going to go there. Um, as you come into the park, you kind of come into this area, which is kind of the central area, which is the gymnasium, which is right now it's programmed to be about 40,000 square feet. That gymnasium, um, our other gymnasiums are probably 17,000 square feet, so it's definitely a lot lot bigger than the ones we usually have. Um, you you're going to have a um you're going to have a playground, a splash pad. Currently, we do have pickle ball. I forget how many courts, but there are quite a few pickle ball courts and tennis courts and basketball courts. And then as you come through, there's um there's going to be a big area there that's going to be programmed for um there's going to be two multi-purpose fields there. And there's also going to be programmed for cricket. It's going to be big enough so they can have an actual cricket field there. Uh there's been a need for that throughout the county um that they're looking for. And then as you come further south, I think it is you're going to that's where we'll have the three adult softball fields is what what we programmed for here is three just three adult softball fields and then a another multi-purpose field with a with a track around it. that's actually going to back up to the school. So the thought is that maybe we have some shared use with the school and also some shared costs with the school for that for that part of it. And that's kind of the program for this one right here. So Mr. St.

My only uh angst with this design when I saw it was that pretty sure the VOP downtown is is right next to this and there's I didn't see what the relationship was with the downtown with the park. Um, I if if possible, I'm hoping there can be some kind of organic connection to any restaurants that might be on the edge of the park. I mean, on the edge of the downtown to the park instead of looking at a parking lot, you know, let's incorporate some experience. I don't know if you've been to New York and you've seen Central Park or

many other parks. Um just make sure there's a relationship

between the two.

So right now so so right now we kind of to the to the west we have the solid waste facility to our west directly to our west.

To our to our to our south we have Pasadena Ridge which is a new subdivision going to the south and and we are going to connect to that with um

that's already there hill right that we saw.

That's correct. I'm not sure what's north. I think there's another development going north and I'm not sure what's going west but um

or east I mean

if I may um village of Pasadena Hills has various villages that that serve as kind of central nodes I wouldn't

near this right

there there is one just immediately to the south and I think we we had a project that came in um to the board for consideration um a couple of meetings ago where we were looking at multi-family and and mixeduse commercial and I some of the feedback that we heard was was kind of the layout of the commercial buildings and and how that potentially could integrate within that general area. And so I think that's something that we can continue to take a look at as that project moves forward. The other thing I do want to mention is I know that on that in that particular village um one of the property owners that's on the northwest corner um right now has not expressed interest in developing. So, as we continue to develop those areas, we're going to really want to make sure that we look at those other three quadrants and how how do those integrate together and how do we create sense of connectivity and walkability to the VOP park

when we're in Bentonville. Um, and Keith, I don't remember if you did you see the amphitheater in Ben Bentonville?

I did.

So, um, you're going to see how they took the park and integrated a restaurant and a museum right on the edge of it that greatly benefits. There's great synergy between the park and the built environment right next door.

Right.

I'm just going to say I think you need to get some more fields out there for athletic fields. I mean, you're serving this is a super park taking care of a lot more people than normal. I don't think you're carrying enough fields out there.

Well, we got an idea for more fields near there.

No, I mean right there. I know. I know. I know the other fields that we talked about, but that area right there, it's going to be a super park. You need to have more fields that you can run bigger events out of.

How many are you having right now, Keith?

Uh, we're specking around 10 altogether.

10 multi-purpose.

Well, no.

Uh, six, eight, nine. It'll be nine multi-purpose fields and three adult softball fields on the current programming.

Assuming permitting, flood plane, you know, all those things.

Are those two football fields or what are they on the

on this side?

Yeah, that's Bob Thomas.

That's that's that's the Two Rivers District Park, which

Oh, okay. Yeah.

But are they football fields?

They would be multi-purpose fields. If any anything that's a rectangle, we try to put as many sports on there as possible. If there's

football if they're if they're two together, we can throw cricket in there.

Got it. Okay.

Two rivers.

And if we can figure out how to play pickle ball on grass, we'll we'll do that, too, because that's that's needed.

No pictures of the pump park and the

Not yet. Not yet. We're getting close. Go ahead. Um, okay. So, this one's been heavily discussed. This is a this was the initial concept for Mag Valley. I'm just putting it out there. Um, I understand that Jason's team's still going through the permitting, but this is in in the 2015 master plan. This was identified as a location, assuming it would could be used as as a park. So, we went ahead and just sketched up something. Um, this shows actually wreck complex, but since that since this was done, we were able to negotiate with Newport Corners MPD and actually get 10 acres there. Um, so we're going to be moving the wreck complex, which means in terms of all that infrastructure tied to a complex could be converted to fields. So, we thought that was a win. And quite honestly, the proximity to the city of Newport Richie's wreck complex, it was just too close. We didn't want to compete with them. Um, so we've been talking to them about a possible cost share and maintenance if they can give our citizens a break on access into the building. So that's that's going that's what's going on there.

Um,

let's let's hang on that picture for a minute.

Yep.

So, Commissioner Sty brought up a great point about what to do for a bigger water area.

If you take that water area that you have in the left eye and you go right along the whole rivered that's all the way through there. It's not that wide, but it's low line.

If you took that whole area right in there and just made that connection, you'd have a good probably a good rope park right there.

I I don't know if that is going to hold water all the time. Um

Oh, it will.

It will.

Will absolutely it will.

Okay.

I have no doubt about that.

I I'm all about as many activities as we can get. So,

well, and as well as then then you can actually take the fill, put it off on property, raise up everything else so it's higher and dryer. you want it to be anyway. And you've got all the land to the front part. And you can, let's say you even take the little the lower part of the lake on the screen, square that off, give yourself some more space, and then just take that whole other part, cut it out, and then you've even got to fill in the back to do more things in the back because it's that's all high and dry, too. And that's where a lot of the fill was going to go anyway.

Yeah.

So, I think it it just pro which provides you a lot more opportunity higher and dryer. And you got a great lake feature, too.

Understood.

Is that a walking trail over the water? I can't I can't tell what that is.

Um,

yes.

Oh,

yeah.

I think you're better off if you just put a bridge coming across where the the top left is where the pump is.

There's a connection there. Carlton Arms is on the back there. You got enough room to go put a trailer around the whole back around, which is great, too. lake.

I think the takeaway there is this is just a high level concept. So we're

well as this has been this run on print now for 10 years. So

as we're talking now I think the ideas we're talking about is a way to create more storage. You get rid of that pond which the island in the pond which doesn't never never made any sense to me anyway as we talked about

but I think you can just create Mr. Stark a great little rope park going across and it could be better for other things could be just canoeing kayak and whatever where

you can move out.

Absolutely.

All right. This this one here is um is the design for an redesign I should say of Anklo River Park. Um, and just quick history on that, we acquired 14 acres to the north from Duke. Um, and so now we actually have substantially more acres. The the the main priority there was to resolve the access issue for boer traffic. So pretty much the 14 acres to the north is going to is going to allow a second access point so we can get boer traffic actually in and out without congesting, you know, normal park usage. Um, as it stands right now on a busy u boating day on the weekend, we have to close the park. So, we're looking to get additional parking, uh, add the secondary access, redesign some stuff, add a little more resiliency components to it, realign the actual boat ramps, um, so that way it's safer to actually retrieve uh, and launch your vessel because right now it's at the angle of where they are in the intake canal if, uh, if the plant's running, could be a little bit of a challenge. So, we're going to try to go ahead and put a jetty in there. Um, how we how we set up the design and the permitting on this is we should be able to proceed, TJ, correct me if I'm wrong here, but we could proceed with everything that's not in the water. Um,

pretty close, right?

Uh, and then the permitting on the actual boat ramp piece is going to take a little longer with the core in terms of realigning them, but because they're an existing facility, it shouldn't be too complicated. It's just really a timing thing, just waiting. Mr. We've added this permit to the list for Dawkins. What's her name?

Dawson.

Dawson. Because we we hired the same company that worked on the iron core permit for Ridge and so I've asked them to uh Commissioner Marian's kind of spearing that to add this permit onto their list of things to get done.

Okay. Well, then we can have our existing consultant work with them if needed. Um so,

do you know who Dawson is?

Yes, I do. Um,

okay. You wanted to say something?

No, I'm just here in case you have any questions.

Good. Yeah.

Okay. So, I think why we're all here today. Um, opportunities and new park projects. These come to me in all various formats. So, we have land acquisition, swaps, additional parks not identified through concurrency in the master in the master plan. um just new community parks depending on changing community needs maybe connected cities as an example boat ramp projects collocation opportunities with schools and then uh the ever popular trails and trail head discussions. So I probably missed a couple um but this is what I had on the list when I reviewed it with Mr. Kbara and uh Miss Pearson here. So we have they also are within two categories. So there's Elant projects, there's park clearly park projects and then the question mark is I'm not really sure what that could be. It could be both. It could be a combination of an el acquisition and a park thing. Not exactly sure. So, I left it kind of that way as a question mark. But, um, here is basically everything that's active. And when I say active is that means my team and I are in some level of research or due diligence to figure these things out. Okay? In addition to working on the active projects that we have under contract. So all all of those projects require basically all these steps, not a complaint, but you know, work to to basically go through the due diligence of things. Um, and uh, so I'm going to go in more detail on this list later. I attempt to um, tie some numbers to them, but I want to be clear that in some cases I don't have any hard evidence of what the numbers should be, so just don't hold me to the numbers, honestly. Um, but uh, we're going to get to that in a minute. Here's the current funding sources for the for for the department. So obviously we talked about impact fees. You have land and facilities. We talked about the go bond that's specifically for deferred maintenance. Of course there's been heavy discussion on block grant and then maybe some DR fund or DR funding. We have several projects that we submitted um for that and I understand there's a lot lot more than park projects on the list. So um got to be respectful there. Of course, there's always other grants, though, I will say none of the grants, I've been doing this almost 18 years, none of the grants come close to the type of money that we need to do any of these park projects. Um, so, um, and then of course general fund allocation. Um, I like to call that the Hunger Games, uh, meeting where we go in there and we we battle to the death over basically a million and a half dollars. And, you know, I'm I'm arm wrestling animal services or whoever else in facilities. Um yeah, it's not not a great opportunity. And then of course the bond. Um and then this is another funding source, but it's the process is clear and the restrictions are heavier. So you have the environmental lands acquisition management program funded through the penny. Um focus on that is ecological corridors, buying anything that h has environmentally sensitive value. Of course, we manage it. We try

to focus on public access and and we also recently have been including trails where it makes sense through our greenways program. on the bottom note there and I don't know if this number is correct but on average that that funding source brings in about 9 to 11 million annually

I mean that's going to run through I don't know if it's 2040 or 2039 because the last penny was 15 years is it 2039 does anyone know okay it's a long time so anyway um that is that's the funding there this so TJ did stay up there so this is kind of where we get into maybe the not so fun part of the presentation And I apologize not making this uh clear, but what we did is we took our revenues and we compared it to the existing budgets. And so in FY26, if you see something that has a negative, that means that's money we already have budgeted to the to the actual project in a capital account. As we go through, you're going to see on the bottom there, you have your totals of your expenditures, your delta, your expected revenue, and then you kind of see where everything goes sideways a little bit based on what where we led this conversation at the beginning was construction costs. So, the first one is West and TJ, I don't know if you want to help us walk us through this. I have it in front of me, but um what I attempted to do was highlight the projects that are tied to the capital plan and the impact fee study. So that's everything that's highlighted, which means that in terms of the parks department, they're a priority. Um so if you look at Anklo River Park, you see that in FY27, the what we need to get that project off the ground is $19 million. New Moon Lake Park over there. We call it the triangle park because the parcel's shaped like a triangle. Uh even though we're applying for some grants through through the block grant process which recently opened up, that's 125,000. Um we have Strickland Memorial Park redesign 750,000. That's just again design. The bridge replacement at Starky Wilderness Park 1.2 million. And then I'm gonna I'm gonna stop there because the numbers get pretty pretty uh

it doesn't get any better after you go.

Keith, just a question. What are you even thinking about doing with Triangle Park?

So, we um Commissioner, we did a rough um concept in fencing just to secure the facility, uh cleaning it up, probably putting a couple pavilions and maybe a small playground. That's pretty much about I think what the design is as of today.

Really? Mhm.

I mean, could we do something less expensive like maybe like a community garden or something like that? I mean, I don't know. Just something

I don't just I I just don't see that park being used a whole lot.

Um I mean, we're, you know, we can we can do whatever the community wants. There's there's playground equipment there now. I wouldn't say that it's

Oh, yeah. It's not safe.

Yeah, it's not safe. So,

uh fencing alone would probably be 20 I think it's the cost quote was around 20 something,000. under 30 just under 30,000 for the fence.

So my concern with because it's surrounded by by roads, you really don't want to advocate it being a any type of public asset.

Well, that's what I was thinking like I

without securing it.

Yeah. Um

I mean we could just do benches and and pavilions and and not do a play. A small playground is going to run around $60,000 and then you have to install it which is going to be another five or 7,000. Um, we're going to handle all the cleanup ourselves. I know public works has offered to help. So, so none of that none of those costs include cleaning it up or maintaining it. It's just the initial infrastructure.

Yeah. I'm just wondering if it's if it's worth that money to put into that put into that space. Like what can we do that's some that's something that's inexpensive that maybe

what we could do is we can maybe have a I know you're pretty active in holding community meetings. We can we can do some outreach and see what they would want to see.

What about a dog park?

Um, that would be pretty easy.

How

That's a great idea.

How how expensive is a dog park? You don't have to have

it.

It's not expens because it usually it quickly becomes just dirt.

Yeah.

Um

and then so then you're receding and you're

I'm just thinking of the location of Triangle Park. They have the beautiful huge park there. I just don't want to see a lot of money put into that tiny space in the middle of nowhere.

Okay.

So, I'm just trying to think out of the box what we could put there that's not going to cost the county a ton of money to maintain. Um, and that won't get ruined.

Um, well, what we'll do is we'll revisit the planning. I mean, the nice thing about the concept we have is we don't have to do all elements. You know, I think step one is probably just cleaning it up and then securing it and then we could we could pause from there, but um I understood that was the direction at least to do initially. So,

yes, just to fence it in and and get the unsafe equipment off of the property.

Yep.

Mow the grass. Okay.

And I know Brford's not here, so I'm going to take advantage that he's not here. He did promise to to to pay for the fencing. So, that's what I heard.

He's not here for

Did you hear that? I heard that. So it was actually at our meeting I think I think Mike heard it too.

We are we we we are applying currently for a CDBG grant for that.

Yeah.

You know so so we are putting in an application for that for 150,000 to try to get CDBG money to do to do the work over there. So okay.

So we should hear about that I think in another month or so if we if we're able to get that.

I'm an advocate for Doc Park. Just

I Keith I think your takeaway here is your your revenues are insufficient.

Yes. Okay.

And Keith,

yeah,

I want to say I want to thank the board as well, but the investments in Sunwest Park over the past couple years have been great. That trail going around there, um, it's going to help a lot of nonprofits with 5K run is going to create a lot of attention out there. Matter of fact, the U opioid group that was just out there, Marching Forest opioid addiction, it's going to donate, I think, $2,400 to the park for their summer camp program.

Awesome. They gave 5A 5A money for programs that they got going on. So that type of thing out there is great.

But you're well I know you're working on some things, but I don't see on the list here. So I need to bring it up so the board's familiar with it. But

yeah. Yeah.

We're talking about the the uh volleyball fields that are out there. Uh we had a beach volleyball thing that was there and they tried to play and because there was no drainage ever put into it. The water would just sit there and literally me and two other guys were out there with blowers digging channels trying to blow the water up to get get it to the water to go. It was it was embarrassing. But um two people there said that if you put drainage underneath it would help.

The other thing it would help it if we set the drainage up as well you could bring it up forward. put a retained well type thing and then from that all the water could flow right out easily into into the water that's there. What that will also do is take from 14 fields that we have bring it to 21 which is a major improvement. Plus it makes it in better condition and it would lead to where we want to go put a stage out along the water where you get a natural amphitheater effect setting all the way around there. It would really do tremendous work for that park

and that would free up all your events when you have me. It'll take up the parking that's there. They can just be around the lake that's out there too. I don't see that on there.

So, it's not on it's not on this because it's we're going to attempt to um resolve that through the operating budget this year. Um and so that's actually moving forward. Um, TJ, I don't know where we are on getting a design on the retaining wall, but we um through last year's budget, we were able to secure some money to actually have replacement sand at all the beach parks. And so, we're going to reallocate some of that funding into a one-time expense on on this wall and then hopefully get that done.

So, in saying that, just with all the great work you're doing, I just thought that should be at least highlighted to say

another improvement is being made.

Yeah,

Mr. start.

I love all that and I'm big supporter of Sunwest, but I think the money that's been going to Sunwest is the money that we were going to use for Ankllo River Park. So, no, you didn't because we had the money for Ankllo. Now, we don't have the money for ankllet. So, what happened?

Okay. So, we had we had go bond money uh and then when we did the original estimate, it came in at 7 million or so. Uh and then when we finished got closer to finish permitting it came in much much larger like 15 to 19 million. So at that point we weren't even sure where we were going to go on design if we were going to you know get redesign done and we had all these other projects that were on the list for Gobond. So we just deploy the funding to those other projects. One good example is Pineh Hill renovation. So that's that's kind of what we did there. Um, in terms of impact fees, because uh, Ankla River Park is an existing park facility, you can only use it and I'm looking at Jeff here and David and I have talked Goldstein, but you can only Is David here?

Yeah. Thanks.

Oh, hi D. I was I'm glad you're here. Thank you. Um, you can tell me if I'm wrong here or not. But, uh, we can only use we can only fund elements of the actual park project that expands capacity. So where we added 14 acres, where we added, you know, extra parking and drive aisles and things like that, it's an eligible expense, but we we can't use impact fees for the entire project.

But you could use the GO bonds,

but we could, but because cost overruns were happening on all the other projects that we were doing,

the money went to the other projects. Yes, ma'am. That's what I'm saying. Yes. Um,

but not Starky and Sunwest.

We're closing We're closing the park because there isn't capacity. Um when when we get to a point I want to talk about who's using our boat ramps. Is it how much of the people coming into that park are coming from another county.

Yeah. Okay.

And see if we need to do something about that. So

So just to um

so you want me to shed a little light on that just so just to shed a little light on the on the spreadsheet. You know kind of what we did there was we we took the projections from the impact fees over the next you know 5 to 10 years. Um, we took the budgets and basically what we budgeted for a district park was $50 million, which, you know, I mean, I know it sounds crazy, but that's on the low end for a district park these days. I mean, it's they're they're a lot of money. Um, so we so as we programmed them out in the master plan, I think it was 22, 28, and 33 were the were the years that things were supposed to come online. Um, a lot of the stuff was already supposed to be online from 23. Um, but we're currently working on. Um, so that's kind of what shows. I mean unfortunately it shows a big number there. I I realize that and some of the money that you see in in the FY26 column like especially for VOP what isn't impact fee based it was the loan and also not not for VOP but it was um some money that we received a few years ago for for um for VOP. So so that that wasn't even impact fee based. So I mean basically what what this shows is if we are to try to build everything that we say we're going to build the impact fees just aren't going to aren't going to get us where we need to get. And I think even if we reduce our parks and start just putting bea grass on top of dirt, you know, we're still I think we're still going to be I think we're still going to be at a negative.

Yeah. When you get in FY27, you look at trying to bring the other, you know, start adding funding to some of the other projects that are in the capital plan. By FY28, you're you're in the whole 33 million.

So that's basically what that

I think East shows a good number. I mean, East kind of looks good all the way up until 33 when Windfields comes online. And then once that once that major project comes in, the the numbers obviously go go south quick. So, and and that's that's based on 50 million today. You know, who knows what 50 million is going to buy us in in 2033.

Yeah.

All right. Um unless there's any questions on West.

Okay. So, Central, um sort of the same story in Central. So, Central you lead off with Cruise Lake expansion. Um, you have this a boardwalk project that's funded through through the penny. You have a trail head that I've been trying to to get off the ground for I don't know 12 years. Um, working with um the expressway authority. Then Connor District Park and the Lando Lake skate park. Those are the actually the the the larger facilities that we're trying to to to get off the ground. Again, reminder FY26. Everything that's negative there is the existing fund balance. So, we have that money. you start to get into FY28 where you're asking for 17 a.5 million to kind of get Conton off the ground and FY28 29 and you pretty much start to go negative around 29 to the tune of 17 million and that's just today's revenue projections. Um

Keith, is this a PGO strategy?

Um I guess it depends on you know I mean it worked with the others so if that's what you're talking about taking a loan. Well, I made a mental note of your your central impact fee projections and they were definitely seven figure numbers. If I look at this, I'm seeing all right -25 negative4. So, we'll say a $65 million program. Um, you know, could could debt service buy that down and and get all these projects done?

Uh, I don't want to speak for I want, you know, we didn't do the financial analysis. We typically do that in each zone like we did with East. But I will say when we started this back in 2016, the estimated cost was $220 million. If you add all these zones up based on what we're looking at today on the numbers that we've seen, we're at around 530 550 million. So U Mr. Carbala, I mean, if we could if we could do something sooner, we're just going to save money. I mean, that's basically what it comes down to. There's no but the numbers don't go the other way. They they just they go the wrong way for us. And that means that we're doing less. You know, I I couldn't tell you how excited I was uh when we got the increase and we wouldn't be having this conversation without those funds. Actually was wasn't a Yeah. scary scary time. But we wouldn't even be talking about this. It's um if we didn't have those in place, quite honestly. But yes, if that's if the actual fund can support the debt service like it did in East like it did in West then I would strongly recommend that's something we do at least for the number one ranked projects like Connor District Park and that's in a service area where we're just struggling on park service period.

Thank you. Yeah,

if I can follow up.

Go ahead.

So, the problem you're going to have though is you really can't bond impact fee revenue.

Yes.

And you have because it's the bond the the purchasers of bonds don't look at impact fee revenue as a stable source. And so then you are backing it up with a budget uh covenant to budget and appropriate. you've already done that for some of your projects, so it there'll be a lot of financial

Yeah, there would have to be a broader conversation on what our bonding capacity is. And I know we've we've had conversations about that. But in the grand scheme of things, if that's a priority for the board, that's where we can start to focus and get some of these projects out of the ground quicker. Commission.

Thank So the cruise link expansion, I guess, with so two two things here. I'll start with the cruise lake expansion. Is part of this to clean up the lake and get all the highends and everything under control out there? I mean, we have cruise lake part, but you can dog on near walk across it because it's so overgrown. And I just think that through this process, I mean, you understand what it would take to to at least clean up that portion of the park and the waterway. There's got to be some level of grants or something out there. I think I mean isn't that a closed basin anyway? I mean it's

I just think between with all the environmental everything that's running around right now will at least clean up that water body and make it you know one of the unique asset of the park cruise lake and you go there and you don't even know there's a lake.

Yeah.

So

yeah. So

can I respond to that if you know what the price is? Well, no, I don't know what the price would be very high, but um we did work with utilities and um Mike, you actually you know the history of this too, the recharge effort where we were attempting to actually recharge Cruz Lake through reclaimed. Um that's one way and I think that if you can if you can get the water level back up, a lot of that aquatic vegetation that you see would be submerged and wouldn't be so much of an issue. You'd get more open water features. Uh unfortunately, that didn't actually go anywhere. Um, from a permitting perspective, you

can touch on it for a second though.

Yeah, absolutely.

All right. So, there was years ago we were up in Tallahassee when Cork was uh present speaker and while we're up there, we've got this flyer that shows Cruz Lake done from the previous summer where it's a full lake and then we're up there looking for money for it. And what had happened sometimes up there, it fluctuates what where the water goes, when it goes, why it goes, we don't know. But sometimes that lake is full, sometimes it's dry, and it's it's going to continue to vary. And they studied it really closely years ago to find what we have to do. And I think the number was at that time was over $10 million. They says, you know what, we got to bail from this program. We don't know if it's going to work, number one, or it's the right way to spend money number two. So just it's it's just either man-made or natural features, whatever is causing that thing to go up and go down. And there's just no way to clearly identify what's what the fix isn't than spending a whole bunch more money on what this is even talking about.

And commissioner, even if we did get a permit to, let's say, excavate some of the native aquatic vegetation there, it would be, you know, less than 12 in deep. So you wouldn't be it wouldn't be long before you were right back basically in the same situation. So um just a challenging project, unfortunately. But uh

Okay. And then back to Con the Conton District Park area that that park is going to like you said Connor's been on the map for what almost 20 years now.

So we've known that this area central pass is going to need it. It's going to serve, this park will serve a pile of kids coming out of L and Jelene in the Beexley area, especially on the northern half, especially once the Ridge Road extension pops out and Sun Lake and everything else. It this is another park that's going to end up like Wesley Chapel District Park over capacity in a very short period of time. This is subjective I think based on the growth and and looking at the the dynamic of the families that's moving in and it's going to be drawing kids from all over the place and have a similar scenario as what VOP and connected city are just adding a pile of traffic and kids and families trying to get to and from to get there. So, sounds like we're still up in the air on it. If you look at strategically getting parks built, we've known this is needed to be here for 20ome years. This area is booming and it's going to serve, we're going to end up with a with a Wesley Chapel district park plus a hybrid of VOP and connected city. So knowing that and with you know the last phases of of Connor coming online and then with Lyn Angeline building out and Beexley bu building out, is there a way to somehow capture some of those funds like you did like the same agreement with connected city and VOP to at least get Connor start getting it stood up?

I mean it's going to be it's going to be a mess.

Yeah. Um the good news on this one is if you see it says you know minus 19us 20. So we have we've been sending whatever revenue we get to that project. So um

uh thank you to the board for now having basically a a chief capital uh expert right to help us. We're going to go ahead and pursue an RSQ for design on that project to get it started as quickly as possible. Um, in terms of revenue that's being collected, I mean, we're we're already funneling every all the revenue in central is pretty much going to this project right now. So, any home, any dwelling unit that gets whether it's apartment or single family, it pops, that money goes right to this project.

But what I'm standing though, what I'm what I'm getting at instead of holding holding the fees for say the project Arthur site, do you like

that's what he's saying? He's saying 100% right now is being diverted to

Conor. What so what we through through the budgeting process, we basically look at our buildout scenarios on the on the phases one, two, and three of the impact fee. I'll sit with my team, we'll sit with OM, and we'll say we make sure we have a capital project. Our number one project in that zone is Conton Park. All money goes there until we have enough to stand it up. So instead of waiting till we have 50 or 60 million, we're going to pull the trigger on getting something shelf ready underneath 19, knowing that 19 will not be enough, but it'll surely pay for design. I'm I'm not a big fan of phasing because phasing causes its own challenges in terms of construction. You always end up missing something. But um I kind of really liked uh Mike's idea of of seeing if the fund can actually support debt service because like we did with Two Rivers uh and and may do with the Date City Recreation Complex and Shelter, we're going to save money and we Commissioner Waitman, to your point, Conton District Park has not been an unknown. It's been it's been on the map pulled down when that DRRi first actually came to the county. So we've known for a long long time that that has to be what it's supposed to be, which is a district park. So with with knowing this I don't know if there's any road folks here but as this comes online and if this part comes online quicker than the carer parkway expansion improvements to air and cutoff I know it's a it's a separate bucket but there needs to be some parallel work going on there with what that's also going to do when this park comes online. air and cutoff is already starting to have massive challenges as it is since Connor opened up on that road and then if we can't get somehow the car parkway expansion moving forward we're just going to step in our own pile of mess. So, if Keith keeps moving at the pace he's moving, we need to look at the road infrastructure surrounding it because like I said, it's going to be just as busy as Wesley Chapel District.

I if um I'd like Mr. Allen to maybe speak to the transportation planning piece tied to the MPUs. I I think a lot of that was contemplated, but I'll let I'll let D

before we get before we just bring up we'll go back to the other stage. I don't want to get lost in the shuffle. You don't want to phase in because it makes it more complicated. But again, you get $19 million. It might be good to go try to look at just a 30,000 foot view sketch of what you want to see out there

and then maybe go take a section in another section, right?

And if be a third section, then go build them one at a time, designing an intensity one at a time because at least you get something in the ground, right,

to get going.

Yeah, absolutely.

Good idea.

Yeah. And I was going to mention on on particularly with the Collier development, you know, it's it's getting closer and closer to buildout and one that's one of the things that we have on our capital plan is the the expansion of Collier Road. I think in the area in general though, I think our highest priority quite frankly is going to be that 52 corridor and that's we're working with FDOT on that. But as we're finishing the Collier Parkway, the Connorton development is securing the rightway and making sure that we have the the Collier Parkway Extan expansion included so that we alleviate that air and cutoff traffic that we have that we know is not going to be sufficient to support um call Conton as it fully builds out.

I have a quick question on How how many fields are are there going to be at um Honor 10?

We we haven't even actually started that process. Um I will tell you commissioner that when we do our needs assessment, we create baseline information. So how many individuals do we need per multi-purpose field, per baseball field, per whatever.

And so we have our wish list that we like to say, well, this park has to hold this many um you know, this many fields. Unfortunately, um, site configuration, some of the properties that we've actually inherited through some of the zoning isn't the best layout or the site conditions. So, we get stuck with weird configurations. You know, rectangles are very specific, you know, you know, geometry. So, um, we either end up it either ends up costing us more money to impact the site, uh, or or we get less fields. But we I could tell you and I'll have the information in front of me, but I know exactly we have it mapped out how many fields we need to get in that service area. Um, now unfortunately, we probably won't be able to get everything we need, but 82 acres or 78 acres we have under control at Conertton, we should be able to do something positive for sure.

Keep going.

If we're good, I'll go to the east. Okay. So, remember east actually um has the VOP connected cities revenues and and things like that and projects. So, um again highlighted the projects that are a priority based uh on the approved capital plan. Um the big ones here you need to talk about or look at is the Bob Thomas Memorial District Park. Look at the existing fund balance and same thing with the Date City Rec Complex. And so, uh to TJ's comment earlier, um East is looking a little bit better. Um, and that's that's a good situation. So, we and and predominantly it's looking better because we actually went out for a loan and we started with with a big pot of money. Um, and then you obviously have the corresponding debt service. And then, uh, TJ, I don't know if you wanted to talk about the difference between East and VP in terms of the phasing of the projects, but you could if you want you can talk about the budget on that based on what what we know today.

Yeah. So, I mean, um, east, again, the big one in East is is I think Bob Thomas is the big one today. I We also have the the shelter gymnasium. Um, so right now we're we're going out. I think the RSQ just hit the street for Bob Thomas as far as design. So, we um, you know, probably in the next four or five months, we'll have a designer on board to start the actual design of that. Um, that's kind of why that's pushed out. um you see the the 12 million and the 4 and a.5 million going out to 28 and 29 because we kind of have 27 as our design year. Um and then BOP um currently we're in schematic design right now. So we have you know we have a pretty good set of program plans that we're getting ready to jump into design development which means we start putting in the the specs and what we're going to build the stuff and type of air conditioner stuff like that. Um you know right now we have 23 million in that pot. um our original price back from our C our CM was was kind of crazy. So, we've asked them to go back and and and do a little better. I mean, again, that's all based on historical numbers. And if you know, I I did a little research on parks being built around the state and and the numbers are crazy everywhere. I mean, Sarasota's adding on to one of their parks. They're spending like 65 million to just add on to one of their parks. So, there is, you know, there there is a lot of money being spent on parks. Um, so with

I'm afraid to say the number out loud more than three times because like Beetle spend it'll be it'll actually be the real number.

So, so, so this projection right here is is based on 70 as you see in the parenthesis as based on spending $73 million at VOP uh super park and another 10 million on the bike park. So, I mean that that that 90 or 300 acres there would be would be $90 million to develop that that land. 90 of it being the active park and 200 of it being the passive bike park.

So JJ, go back to what do we expect design cost to be?

So no design was uh design was was just under four million for the design. Design design usually runs you 7% of the of the um so design was around four was right around four million bucks.

And that's both commissioner Mar that's both projects that's both the bike park and the actual district park itself. You good with that number?

I'm not allowed to bid professional services by state law. So

you put a range out there what what your caps are. Might that drive the cap down?

So So mo most consultants use what's called the DMS curve. It's a state curve where they just basically put in the budget and they and they um put in the complexity of the park and there's different levels based on complexity and it it spits out a number to be honest with you. It gives you that number. They're not sitting there figuring hours, which I know my I know Eric hates because he's, you know, he likes he likes the hours to be in there. But, um, you know, most engineers, most architects, I mean, I say most, I think everyone that I've worked with in the 20 years that I've been with the county, you know, since the DMS curve has been around is uses the DMS curve. They they don't count hours. Civil guys some sometimes count hours, you know, for the civil side because the DMS curve doesn't cover the civil. Um, it just covers the architectural and the MEP and the um and the construction administration at the end. So, so I mean it's it's basically an algorithm that somebody created that they're all that they're all using and and you know if you ask the architects that they're going to tell you you're better off with it. It's going to be more if we start adding hours in. But you know that's that's a up for debate. But

and the the other thing to call out on these projects too is we're using the construction manager at risk at the start of the process which is something we've never done in the parks department. So what that's going to give us is a guaranteed max price. um they're going to they're going to be able to work with our design engineer and architect on offering recommendations to maybe lower the cost um based on the specifications conversation that we had earlier. Um I think we have you know we have our premier goal and then we have several levels that we can kind of work back from. Um again that the focus is it's kind of like roads right so for us you know we don't want to design a road that fails immediately you know once it's built. So in terms of these new park facilities, what we're seeing through the needs assessment is, you know, our existing inventory, our existing gymnasiums are out. They don't have the capacity to support the population that we're seeing here. So maybe a couple more activity rooms or in some cases three gymnasiums, not two. And when I say gymnasia, I just three and underneath one roof. Um, you know, so it's uh yeah, there's I'm hoping that this is going to be a benefit. It what it won't be is a surprise at construction. So, what we won't get is a permitted site plan and then and then we think the number is something and then all of a sudden we go out for construction and we're like we need another $50 million. It's we're going to know that number is going to be locked in specifically through the process. Right TJ?

Correct. Oh, yes. As as the commissioners know, locked in as long as our plans are good. You know, I mean, if we uh if we have mistakes in the plans that they you know, they're bidding on the set of plans we give them. If there's if there's mistakes on the plans, then then they're obviously u they're going to come back to us for that as we learned from the jail.

What back do we have for these plans? Let's say they're not done properly. Let's say we don't build the field high enough, put enough fill in.

This happened at Stark.

Professional liability insurance. We Yeah, go ahead.

No, that's correct.

Did that play out in the Starky?

It it did not. Um but this is I think going to be a very different situation. So

does that happen in happen ranch too? It it did not happen. Yeah, we were we were good at wire aggression. I mean that that's one of the reasons why the project cost 15 million.

Yeah. So I mean quick history lesson. I mean I like I said I've been doing capital since the Gallagher days, you know. So I' I've seen the whole I've seen the whole different way things are being done. Um speaking of um Wrass Sports Campus and speaking of pre-engineered metal buildings, that is a pre-engineered metal building sports campus. um back 2019 I want to say that total project was around 28 million with the with the building probably being somewhere in the $20 million range for uh close to 100,000 square foot. So yeah, I mean pre-COVID that's 200 bucks a foot which sounds great but unfortunately postcoid I mean as we saw with with with fire stations and you know I mean we we again I don't want to bore you with stuff but when fire stations um we got we got the go bond we went out to build fire stations we built a 17,000 foot fire station number nine and we also built well 17 is a different story but we bid out 17 as a hard bid and nine pre-COVID they came in at a little over $4.5 million for nine which was a single story and a little over 5 million for for 17 which was a twotory. Um 10 months later we bid out 20 I believe it went from four four and a half million to 7.5 million. Same building same same everything you know nothing changed

and your contractor walked away from 17.

Well 17 yeah yeah yeah 17 we we lost the contractor you know that was that I mean basically COVID put that contractor out of business. I mean, they if if they if they were to finish our fire station 17, they probably would have spent a million and a half dollars of their own money to finish our fire station 17.

The previous one, I think the contract lost like a half a million.

I'm sorry.

I think the previous one contract lost like a half a million, but

So, yes, nine. That contractor actually spent a half a million dollars of of their company money to build our fire station nine because they they they obviously didn't want to lose their bonding capacity and and go bad. So, so, so those two stations. So then we went then we went out about 10 months later with fire stations uh three and 18 and those went from 7.5 million to 9 and a half million. So in a matter of a year and a half our fire stations went from 4

same exact fire station

same exact building you know and then we downsized it. So now we downsized it. We we we lost a couple thousand square feet and now we're 10 million. So you know now we're 10 and 11 million. I mean some of that has to do with the site. You know, different sites cost different money, but you know, I mean, unfortunately, COVID really, really um put a hamper on capital. I mean, we were all excited when we had the go bond. We were going to go we were going to build a jail. We were going to build nine fire stations. We were going to build a training facility. We're going to build all this stuff with all this money. And then co happened and you know, that money kind of was was half of what what what it was before. So, the same same problem with parks, you know, we have we have so we went out. So, we did we did Wiregrass Sports Campus, we built the building. We did not build the fields because we didn't have the money at the time. So, we just built the building and the fields became phase two. Um, we got a they did bid the fields and let me let me say that the fields weren't the fields that we have today. They were they were more the old style fields just couldn't no under drain, you know, so if it rains they're going to get soaked, you know. So, we didn't build the fields. We got about a $5 million, you know, that saved us about five million in phase one. So, when we went back out a few years later to build the same fields again, they were a little little nicer. They had under drain. They were flat. They were more tournament ready fields. We spent $15 million on those same fields.

The takeaway is when you So when you look at the VOP section there, um, knowing what we know, and we didn't say the number out loud, but TJ kind of baked it in here, you can see that we're in FY27. We have the need of $32 million. So where that would come from, um, it would have to come from someplace else or east. And then you're defunding one of those other projects at East. And to make it even more complicated, and this is where I'm glad David is here, because VOP, we thought VOP was 100% funded um back when we started this project back in 2022, it was not included as a project in the impact fee study. So technically, we can't use impact fee funds to even offset any overruns for cost. Now, we could based on the criteria that I showed you earlier, you can make a recommendation and modify something, but that means you're deleting something of equal value off the list someplace else.

David, did I get that right for the most part? I got the thumbs up. Okay. Um I I think TJ, I think we're good on the capital side.

I think we beat I think we beat it.

You going to stay? All right. Okay. All right. Um moving on real quick because I want to get Yes, sir. Not for nothing, but there's people that come before this board and ask for a heck of a lot more money. And this is a lot more palatable conversation than probably some of the others we have from other departments or other parts of our world.

Should I double my request?

No, I mean look,

I think everyone heard it. Okay.

I'll go on the record with this and I'm crystal clear especially during the budget and this is about money in the budget. I I very much appreciate department directors advocating for their branches and asking for funds and to see passion behind it. And if I don't see that, then that tells me you're not excited about about your job, right? I'm not saying you're not, but it's okay. Suit up, go to war, and we make decisions. But you're doing the right thing.

Well, I feel like I I want to say war sounds like a very aggressive term, but I've been advocating assertively for probably seven or eight years. War versus hunger games.

Yeah, you're right. I didn't use that. I didn't I didn't use it. That's fair. Okay.

All right. So,

so don't be bashful. We'll keep playing here.

All right. Okay. So, um talking about revenues and budget, it I I cannot we can't talk about budget without talking about Elam. So, this is Elam's budget. I I previously mentioned you get around 9 to 11 million a year. We just had a tremendous acquisition um in a partnership with the state on the 4G project. $68 million in acquisition. County fronted that 34 million. We have uh several other projects through the ecological corridor ordinance that are running through. Um, so you I brought I brought this slide out because I think we might get to a point uh Mike where we need to consider maybe doing some bonding on this one because we have several active projects in that have been through the board through the acquisition list and we're kind of working on some contracts and we just pretty much cashed out the fund balance for the most part. Um, the good news is the revenues seem to be increasing uh or at least stable for the most part. So, I think there's there's some potential there to to to to do some loans and and and maybe secure these acquisitions. So, um but the other thing that's interesting here on the bottom is we talk about infrastructure. So, um Kathy and Mike, we talked about taking um the flexibility built into the penny to allow some infrastructure on natural resources projects. And so what you see there is us committing to actually making these elamp properties open to the public, doing some infrastructure stuff or the team is actively working on um what we're going to be calling something like cruise lake watershed regional something park I don't know yet. Uh but the point there is there's you know there's parking lot there's on-site security is going to be a massive trail system. It's 2,000 acres um some equestrian use. It's going to be a pretty fantastic facility and we're using some proceeds from the penny to actually make that happen. So, I just wanted to put that out there. Commissioner Stark,

um have you met with um the guys that said they were willing to advance the money to help build some of the horse facilities?

I never miss an opportunity if someone's saying they're going to advance money.

You were in drawing a blank.

Oh, it's uh with um Homes by Westby.

Oh, yes. Yes. I have not met with them yet. No. Oh, well,

okay.

Yeah, they're very interested in doing that.

What are they interested in doing?

Um, so they're building

it's on the mosquito parcel.

Uh, they're building No, no, no, it's not mosquito.

No, it's not that one.

Mitchell 41.

Uhhuh. And um right they're they're right next to the uh jumping gully

and which is going to have equestrian.

And so they're when they heard that they're very interested in helping to fund the quality equestrian facility against impact fee credits

as a you know it's be great for their project. They're building very expensive homes.

Yeah. Yeah.

What's wrong? No, no, no. I just credit it on your central impact piece.

I remember the conversation now. I need to re I need to circle back around with that,

you know. U that out of that park is the Miseric Town channel or canal or whatever and and you can horseback ride for miles.

It's it's a great great asset for the county to have equestrian in that part.

Yeah.

All right. Um Okay. This is a list and it's in alphabetical order so it's not in prioritization. I didn't rank them but this is a ba basically a summary of all the projects that I showed you in the beginning. The new projects the opportunity projects that come our way through various means right and what I attempted to do is break them down by type whether they'd be park or el then I attempted to break them down by impact fee zone. And then with whatever information I had I threw some numbers out there. So if there's two numbers, the first one is land rough estimate on land and then rough estimate on facility cost. And I wanted to put this up there just to kind of based on after reviewing the budgets what this you know for example if we look at Hopkins um and we see that that's going to be roughly 16 whatever million that's going to be. I kind of want to wait for Commissioner Waitman on some of this, but um the question is is if the if East is only producing 5 million over five years in land, um what how are we going to pursue that acquisition? Um there's some school projects that are on there that are great. Um and I think that there's a lot of a lot of opportunities there to work with the school board specifically. I didn't talk about that, but I can dive into that a little more detail. That's where we may um not may we're considering using some schoolboard property and making an investment where we would then have control of the facilities after hours and on the weekends and in the west market area where even if today we built out all the fields in the master plan, we would still be deficient in fields. That's a great opportunity. The question is that's approximately $4 million. You know, are we talking about the general fund in terms of a request for that? Um, and I and again I can go down the list. So I think that what I'm looking for today, I'm actually going to make a recommendation in terms of what we should do too, but I wanted to put all of them out there. And now that we went through the budget for each impact fee zone and and hopefully you get a feeling for where we are financially. There's not a lot of room to deviate from the capital plan unless we make a big change somewhere else. Um, and that's kind of the purpose, you know, at least for me. Kathy asked me, "What do you want to get out of this workshop?" And I think for myself and my team specifically, we just want we want clarity on direction. So, um, Commissioner Waitman, what we did is we have the list here. We're just talking about all the opportunity projects. Um, and and how we're going to pursue that. So, I'll I'll

I just have a question. I just have a question. Kathy Pearson. Um, just a question, Keith. on this list. Is there any way you can identify for the commissioners number one if you have no funding or you do have funding and where what part of funding you asking from general funds?

Good question.

I mean just so they have an idea.

That's a great Yeah. And I probably could have clarified that a little better. So when you look at this list, if you look at everything that has an ELAM uh reference there in terms of type, I think I think we're okay there. And I'm going to get to get to that I think on the next slide. But when you look at everything that says park, if we prioritize the projects in the capital plan, there is no funding to pursue any of these projects. And so that's kind of I think again the purpose for the workshop for me is one to call that to everyone's attention. Maybe there's some bonding we can do. Maybe there's some general fund allocations we can do. Uh I I don't I'm not exactly certain, but um like I did I did say earlier, I do have a recommendation and the recommendation for me is what's going to benefit parks immediately in based on service area. And that's kind of how I get to the recommendation. But if we focus on these from the capital plan that was tied to the impact fee study, everything highlighted, everything highlighted is referenced back to the budget sheets that we just reviewed. And if you recall that we were pretty much going negative in in 27 and 28 on most of all of these based on the anticipated costs of these. So if we focus on these there is no money for this unless it's an el project and then in that case I think we can bond el and then take down the el projects in order of you know prioritization meaning ecological corridors first ecological planning units next or anything else that has high environmental environmentally sensitive value. So I'm going to I'm going to pause there for I guess questions and then I can go to my recommendation slide. Keith, I'm not sure if the the entire board is necessarily familiar with some of these. Do you think you can

Yeah, I've never heard

give these maybe a quick 15sec intro on on what they are. And and again to to Keith's point, you know, there there are various funding mechanisms. Some of these projects we're considering uh for for DR funding. There's there's opportunities there. General fund is that, but as Keith points out, um there's a lot of opportunity that's out there. As I mentioned, we have a plan. If we want to pivot from that plan, that's okay. And some of these are actually great opportunities. We just we just need to make sure that we're we're aligned in how we want to approach those. Uh and just and just know that we're looking at alternative funding. But right now, as Keith says, there's a lot of pressure on that park number. So, if it's got a park next to it, uh there's a lot of pressure on that on that fund. Doesn't mean that there may not be alternatives or ways that we can look at it. We're doing that.

And I apologize if I missed a project. I I thought I thought I got them all, but this there's a good chance I didn't get them. All right, so Avalon Park. So that is um that is over in Avalon Park. It's approximately 23 acres. It's um references a community park location within a development. The developer approached us actually about park partnering on um us taking the land and building something quicker which would be an asset on the 56 corridor. I think it's 56 corridor. I tried to map all these out, but it got

54. Yeah,

it was too unwieldy. It it wouldn't have told the story.

Yeah. So, um the the goal there is, you know,

can add a community park within a a pretty high need. Configuration is not wonderful. Need money for land. You need money for facilities. Blackwell is

I hate to interrupt, but this is I think a big thing. You talked earlier about not taking your neighborhood parks that you got to put in

and now it seems like it's a neighborhood park that we're going to

He's He's calling this a community park, not necessarily a neighborhood park.

I I understand that, but I'm just saying what are they doing for the neighborhood park?

Oh, okay.

It's a good question. So, um and I I think I'm gonna probably maybe put that one to the side because planning is doing some research. I I'm almost certain that the developer met their neighborhood park requirements. This might may or may not have been connected to that. That's I think a point of the research that needs to be concluded.

Good question though, Commissioner. Uh Blackwell Elant property up along the Anklo River corridor. Um we pretty much have a contract in place. Don't see any issues with funding there. We have fund balance to take care of that. Burk's expansion is um I don't know if that's 15 acres, Tammy, or 10 acres. It's it's a rectangle of land right up against 52 right adjacent to the existing Burks Park. Outstanding opportunity. It would allow for expansion of Burks. Um parks need to be expanded. So um we've been negotiating with that property owner. Price asking price is 5 million.

So to add to that, it's important. So the Pasco County Fairgrounds, you know, where you park fair association doesn't own that. If the owner, it's a long-term lease. If the owner decides to sell that hill, it'll virtually it'll decimate Pasco County Fair because they have nowhere to park, folks. So, only only way that they could really figure out a way to have parking is to use Burke Park, Burks Park on the east side of 52. So, this site there there's there's there's implications to potentially capturing this site for multiple, you know, multiple jurisdictions there. So there's it's this site's probably a little bit more important than we would initially expect it to be. So just put that on the record.

All right. Next one is connected cities. Um I think we're all familiar with that. Um kind of briefly talked about how connected cities kicked their park requirement over to the OP. I think some members of the community approached the board at many hearings and were concerned about getting a community park there. So, we've identified um possible utilities uh parcel as a as an idea location within the development. Got to pay utilities back. Um Joseph's never going to let me take land for free.

So, maybe I don't know. We got him on the spot. We can ask him. 10 bucks. Joseph was about 10 bucks. Um so, you got to I don't know what that cost is. The actual 7 million was tied to the uh the asking price for the Tall Timbers MPU, which is immediately to the east.

I thought we could swap. Still got to pay somebody back though. Still gota,

huh?

That that

we we we had a number of valuation struggles in those negotiations. We're, you know, the the focus right now is really looking at the utilities property if the board wants to, you know, maintain on that on that promise. But we and the tall timbers piece really wasn't all that good. We couldn't activate that much land to do to do really anything with it. And so at that price tag,

it just the intent was the intent was right, but I don't think the the details really played out the way that we wanted to. So we're looking at the that centralized utilities.

Oh, good. Because they need something.

Yep.

So as again rough numbers, throw 30 million out there in facilities. Better to have enough, not enough. Um DCH timber is a large actually something that the Elamp team has been identifying for a long time. That's over in West I want to say it's approximately 500 acres. Um, a lot of a lot of uh creative activity occurring uh I think on that parcel.

Where is it?

This is right below Heritage Pines. Yeah.

We had all those people about a month ago come to

a lot of public comment.

We're trying to work with the sheriff shootings. You got

uh we need that

fourwheelers out there. So this I didn't know this on your radar, but I'm glad it is. But

and you've started conversations already.

Yes, I have. Yeah. Again, I put the question mark because when something's like I think that's over 500 acres, it has the potential to be something more than it could be a combination of Elamp and a park parcel. Uh anyway, left that there.

Forest Hills. Um before I say anything, Commissioner Starky may say something about Forest Hills, but that's an old golf course that's defunct. It's along the river with Boer access.

Bo access

and um already fenced.

Where is it? It's good to go. Um, it's in Holiday on the west side, east side of 19, which has no park. Um, and we're trying to hold off them developing it. They offered it to us. So, this this can be CDBGR and this can be a a combination of things. And it's right on the Ankote River.

Nice.

Yeah. And it's got a boat boat ramp. Yeah. It wouldn't be a It'd be pretty passive fishing and boat ramp and

frisbee golf.

Yeah, it could be a disc golf course which we get a lot of requests for. So, yeah.

Um, next project, Hanland Ranch. It's an Elant project far on the east side. Um, we did actively pursue this and the property owner did kind of ask us to stand down. I'm not exactly sure what's going on there. Hopkins. So, the Hopkins parcel is specifically a park parcel. It's immediately south of the existing um utilities water treatment facility in Wesley Chapel District Park, approximately 180 acres. Um this is one of those fantastic opportunities. I think I'll get to recommendations later, but the synergy with the existing district park, possible ongoing expansion, Joseph, of the water treatment facility makes a lot of sense, but we can we can get into that a little bit later. Um Mitchell, this is an ELAP project that is brought through uh to us through the development application and the ecological corridor ordinance. So that is

this is me 41.

Yes, that's

you got

Okay. So that's me 41.

Yeah. So that's the acquisition of um of the ecological corridor on that MPD

which which the LDC says if you if you don't have the funds then you can't you can't protect it. So, um, it's important that we have fund balance to be able to make that acquisition, which we do.

Where where was the mission 41, please do you

41?

So, not So, it's um

north of 40.

Yeah. North of 52 by the mosquito property.

Yeah. It's by right by It's right across from Cruz Lake Park. Literally right across the lake.

Yeah. Right. All right. The next one is um I'm not sticking to Mike's 15 seconds, but uh Moon Lake Park. That's the one we talked about earlier. That's the small triangle piece. um

and we applied for block grant funding for um and now we'll maybe modify the request and do something maybe smaller infrastructure-wise. Um Newport Richie Port Richie boat ramp project. Um this we took down

several years ago. Um and uh so we we the county own three acres. The city of Newport Richie owns also three acres and uh and I talked to most of you about this. The idea is to kind of do some joint partnership. City of Newport Richie wants to focus on a redevelopment piece. We ultimately want to make sure that we have an extra public boat ramp that's affordable to the public because we're inundated uh with with uh with that.

I think the city is moving forward with like a mixeduse residential redevelopment of of that hotel.

They knock down that motel. It's gone.

Yeah. So, um what I owe the board is I is, you know, an agreement ultimately between us and the city. So, yes. And we're working on that now. I want to I want to see the dialogue on that too. Okay.

Do I think Port Richie might be

the underlying

I think the underlying um approach right now is is that we would we would either turn over control of a boat ramp to Newport Richie and have access or maintain control. Um you know and I I don't know which is better.

I don't want to give up to my opinion I wouldn't want to give up total control.

No. for a second.

You may have to depending on who ends up being operator, you may have to recuse yourself.

Well, I I think that I'm going to say from the getgo, though,

I this is the type of feedback that's helpful.

Keith and I have talked about this. I haven't seen where it's gone, but I want to make sure we have discussions with this, and I think one-on- ones are probably best, but

we we we bought the two key pieces of property. Yes,

we have the prime piece of property,

and frankly, we need a a fire boat should be out there. Fish and wildlife must be out there. I think a boat ramp is key why we bought the property. Oh yeah. So it has to give up any control.

Well, control though becomes really what my question is in terms of negotiating if if if that's adamant on the board side.

They've known all along that it has to be a boat ramp that's open to the public.

Okay.

To um just to current affairs, it hasn't gone anywhere.

Correct.

Um I got feedback from everyone and I think I know the direction that we need to proceed in. So, I'll be working with the city manager and getting back with Kathy and Mike on that and then briefing each of you individually. So, before we before we do anything else,

it's so good to see that area redeveloped.

Yes.

Yeah. All right. The next one, uh, Old Florida Mitigation Bank. This is at the cornstret right up the road here, uh, 41 and 52. Uh, it is an existing mitigation bank. Uh, we tried to, uh, negotiate with the property owner in terms of getting it underneath county ownership. Um, so that way there would be no reserve rights for the for the property owner. That the challenge there on that one is that it's an interesting arrangement. The actual mitigation banking company owns like perpetual rights to the land until their permit is finished. Uh, so meaning that if we pursue acquisition, we the bank comes with them. Uh, little more challenging than what we were anticipating, but the five million there is the asking price. It's about a thousand acres, but that is the asking price for the remaining rights after the conservation easement had already been placed on the property for the mitigation bank.

Wow.

It's over a thousand acres.

It's over a thousand acres. Yes.

What's really important to me and to the county is that we get a sidewalk along their 52 edge. They need to whoever owns it, we have to have a sidewalk on that edge.

Okay. Um Okay. The next one. school project. So that's generically labeled because I think this is an opportunity for us to it's an opportunity for us to work with the school board, take existing public assets that are not in the best condition and then us make an investment.

Oh. and um then use the facility after hours once the school is is is closed. And then we could maybe program some individual teams or other programs actually to these assets and really expand um you know our our infrastructure without buying, you know, a 50 acre parcel or something like that. So Keith,

can you can you just go into a little bit of detail about the the one in um

the the school in Jackson district? Did you did you work with them on how many how many um fields that we can get in banet?

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

So the the example on the table and we talked to the school board is that we would look at banet point. Uh and we have I think it's two two softball fields and a multi-purpose field. Is that correct TJ? I think that's it. Yeah.

Yeah.

Come to the mic TJ. But as he's he's walking up. So multiple fields and um the idea is that what we did is we presented everyone options of well I mean basically right now they're just Sansburg fields. I mean they're they're they're they're not fantastic. Sorry school board if anyone's watching this but they're not um they're not in the best shape. So the idea is we the county would have to make a capital investment. And what we did is we said okay we're going to go highest end artificial turf, low maintenance, get a lot of bang for your buck. Um and then you just do go down the field of full grass renovation and then maybe just some seating and stuff. The major challenge is none of the facilities have any lights right now. So TJ lights per field run about

yeah around 300 grand for musco lighting. So that's a big cost and and the only only way for it to be beneficial to us is to be able to use it at night. So unfortunately we have to use we have to put lights if it's going to be beneficial.

Yeah. But we'd have to do so again you got to make the investment. The school board didn't say they wouldn't be interested in making an some sort of matching investment, but we went to them proposing this idea. Uh I think if there's going to be there will absolutely be revenue associated with through the reservations. I think the takeaway is um quite honestly, like I said earlier, if we were to build everything in the West Market area, we still wouldn't have enough fields per the population. So, it is a way for us to pick up additional assets. Uh I do have my I do have logistical concerns. Um, but I think we work with the school board on some kind of cost share. They have a plant operator. Billy would love it to be artificial because then it' be low maintenance, but that is a much higher price tag. Overall project at least at that one location is approximately $4 million.

Start.

Um, I'm curious uh with I so with all the development going on, the school district added 700 kids last year. they are um and so with their penny money they they their penny money goes to renov they get 40 cents of every dollar school district I don't know I'm curious what their projections are for building new schools um and how does their impact fee money and and how does their impact fee money work does does money that's gathered on the west side have to go to westside schools Or is their impact fee count? Do they get to go countywide?

It's countywide. It's

one bucket.

So they So they have impact fee money and they have penny money. The penny money is for renovation only. It's not to build new schools, right?

It's both.

It is both. So I still am curious if they if because their numbers are so low for new students if they can maybe we can talk to them about them if there's room to use some of their money towards fixing up their fields and you know like right now they're redoing Gulf Middle but do they redo their fields when they put money into the rens and

yeah I mean I've seen them they've made some I know the athletic director. Uh there's been some discussions about them wanting to convert to artificial in some locations, but I I don't know if that's the standard practice moving forward.

So, it' be an interesting discussion to have school district if if that starts working into their capital plan if they have room since their numbers are so low. It's crazy.

Commissioner A.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, just I mean it would be a a pilot program, right? So, we would try it and like Keith said, we we we would still have a deficit, but if the program worked, then we could do pop up at other locations and try and relieve some of some of these um deficits. And I mean, for my opinion is it's not going to be a huge cost to the county to do this because they already have the land. So, um Go ahead. How is it going at the schools that did sign on to um participate in this program?

Okay. But in that case, we're just opening up for playgrounds and things like that. This would be a much more intense

not any of the athletic fields.

No, it's it's mostly open space, playground elements and um a couple courts, but not not like field assets.

Yeah. I mean, the the biggest challenge is security. Now that the school, you know, the the state has made schools locked down after hours where you can't get in there, we'd have to have put quite a bit of fencing in to make sure that we're not allowing anybody to get into the school. So, that's that's some of the cost in there.

And the using middle schools, certain specific schools, because the middle schools have bathrooms in the back. So, then we'd only need a key to get into the bathroom and not the actual school. So that was the thought process behind that.

We did several mapping exercises where, you know, we went with the school board like, "Well, you should focus on this type of school and this type of location." So to Commissioner Joerger's point, if it's successful, we could we could replicate it elsewhere in the county.

A great idea.

Yeah. Very.

So I like the idea. Uh but Keith, I want you to think about something as well. If you just I hadn't thought about this when we talked about this before because I want to see how this plays out, but as you said, we don't want to put put parks in. So we don't have land, save money.

But we've got about 20 acres up at Angle Park that is right next to between the hurricane shelter and the other fields that were already there. Maybe we should be looking at that. They get two fields that are out front that aren't even used because we don't have even irrigation out there.

What is it called?

In part.

So when you drive right in, you've got like what's at least at least one field, maybe two fields that are out there up front.

Up front.

Up front. Yeah. They're Yeah. They're just basically a vet line fields. I mean,

so I mean, but that those could be two fields that are right there that's high and dry, ready to go. You could just chop those things over and make them them go. Then around the backside, we we've got probably at least 20 acres that are sitting there now.

30 acres

all the way up to the 30 acres or so we gave 10 to the Vincent house, but from right in there, you've got existing land there as well with an existing park structure, etc. So, I think we should maybe dive into that a little bit too and let's do a little comparison. Yeah. So, um, Commissioner Mariana, that that that expansion project is included in the capital plan. Um, it's it's just r below the others. That's all. But I, you know,

just

in terms of timing, not not importance, just in terms of timing, in terms of phasing, but we can look at

again those first two fields coming in.

Well, they use the fields a little bit,

but if you improve them,

Yep.

it'd be two fields that are right next to the park that's already there.

Makes sense. Just curious because you know we're all together. What is everybody's thoughts about that project um with the school board?

I think it's worth

so it's worth it's worth looking.

If we can find the money I think we should try. That's what we're here to talk about, right? These are all great projects all

but I think as we talked I'm not crazy about the artificial fields. I think you should look at if we're going to go build and put the investment in when they're doing their other maintenance on the property.

Yeah. other than the fertilizing stuff, they should be maintained as a moment anyway.

Agreed. And then that would be the terms that we loosely presented already to the school board.

It would be a shared

Yeah, it would be a shared um

So assuming we assuming the money can be identified. It's really just an agreement um working off the existing master use with the school board and identifying terms. I mean, it's not trying to oversimplify it, but it is it's literally that simple. It's the money that would be holding holding us up. But um if I can I'll finish.

Can I make com one comment on that? Absolutely. It would also go into a joint account with the school board and the county and that account would be used for maintenance. So whatever goes into the account goes out for maintenance to that park.

What is stage coach?

Uh stage coach is a is an el property. It's located north of um Crossbar Albar Ranch. uh that's been through through the acquisition list and the process.

Was that one that was going to be developed and then it was had really hard development access and all that?

Not not that I'm aware of now. It's just it's just it's a large large property that is basically up against the Hernando line there.

Oh, Hernando.

Yeah. All right. Next one is um Starky Enclo Bridge Replacement. Um that's basically just replacing the old bridge. Threw a number out there. um uh you know don't I would think that would be enough but that's about what we think it would cost and then right next to that

we need to shop that

so um Starky so Starky Ranch development and the wilderness park there's through the zoning there was two required public access points within the development this part this part right here I I get them confused A or B but either way it's supposed to be a public trail head that gets from the southern part of of well Starky Wilderness Park you're able to access the problem is is you can't access it because the bridge that was there is no longer up. Uh the water management district removed the bridge. It was no longer structurally sound. Uh we've approached them about actually them funding the replacement of said bridge and they said Keith you they didn't say Keith I think they did. I think said the county needs it. I was meeting with them so I think they did say that uh you need the part or you need the bridge. We don't need the bridge. We can get our land management equipment to other parts of the property without the bridge. We need it for people moving. Um we we have a public trail head um which I'll talk about on the next one that hasn't been clearly identified and we have no means to move people from the development in further into the actual park property.

So so if I may the Anklo River goes through it's actually the the headarters of the Anklo River and it goes through the property and the bridge connected the southern part of the park to the northern part of the park but it got dangerous. part of it fell in because there was no maintenance on it. And so you cannot get from one side of park to the other. So we need some kind of not a fancy bridge, but we need some something to go over the river.

Yeah.

And it, you know, if someone gets lost or

So there's just no way to get over the river.

Could we use the disaster funds for that since that is a flooding area?

We we didn't put that on the list. That's I mean um

I had thought of that.

Yeah, I didn't think of that either. Um,

we'll consider it.

Yeah, we can consider it. The cost really is the length of the bridge to get across the the flood plane. Um, all right. So, the next one is

So, sounds like this bridge is predominantly for the Starky subdivision.

No, no, Right.

That's a

It would be public. You could park there.

But it connects the residential piece. I mean, it's it's basically an amenity for the residential piece, right? It was an identified public trail head. So that's going to be the next that'll be the next the next one on the list is

but is the residential part of Starky like because it's around this.

I think you can make an argument because it is adjacent that it is.

Okay. So my point to that is I think whatever their CDD groups are, we got to go talk to them because they'll be the ones that use it more than anything because they're right there.

No, they're going to fight it because the public will come in and park. They'll use it more with the public, I imagine, because it's right there. I think it's worth the ask.

Have the conversation.

I think it's worth the ask them. Pitch it to them. Say, "Hey, look, this is

pile of money. You want it sooner and later benefits your communities."

Well, we're already talking to them about the next one, which is the trail head part of that piece. So, um, right next to the actual public trail head is

behind the public

is a is Yeah. Is a parcel of land. I don't remember the acreage. Very small sliver of land. And um the developer still owns it and

no Swift don't no swift mud has an easement over it but the developer still controls the land. They still they still own fe simple.

So um the question there is I try to get the CDD to to well I tried to get the developer to deed the land to the CDD. They said no. Um so I don't know if we're going to have to buy the acreage or not. Um, my recommendation would be is even if we control the land, I think we should deed it over to the CD and let them maintain it as a neighborhood park piece of an element. Unfortunately, through the zoning, it's required to be a public trail head, which ultimately I think means then it comes back to us. But I put that on there because it's connected to the bridge. Um, the number that's been floated around about the acreage is around 700.

I don't know what a trail head park would look like, so just attach some facility uh cost to that. Um, but they go kind of sort of hand in hand. And to Commissioner Weightman's point, the trail head is embedded in the development, but that was by design. Yeah. And because of the, you know, the adjacency to the actual park itself.

So, a question while we keep on moving, can you get can you pull us up a map pages see it?

Um,

yeah. I guess I don't know someone can someone pull up Google Maps or something,

Keith. This the bridge is there for the South Branch already. We put that in.

Yeah.

Yeah. So, it's the northern bridge.

All right. The last one on the list and um I'll Commissioner Marian, I'll pivot back once.

Yeah, we'll be able to come back.

Um Sunset Ranch. So, this project was uh this is on the east side of the county. Um is located I call it the target distribution center. I don't know if it still is a target distribution center or not, but it's a rather large holding. could be an Elant project, could be a parks project uh based on acreage through an estimated cost out there. And um and and just to be clear, no dedicated funding sources for any of these projects. That's that's kind of purpose of talking about them today. So, while we're waiting for a map, if we go So, zoom in.

Um, you probably want a satellite view.

Can we Can we dim the lights

or should turn off the lights? You can't.

I don't know if that's a possible thing.

Yeah, Joseph, this is your building. the lights

Yeah.

All right. So,

right there. Yep. Perfect. Right where your cursor is. Zoom in there.

So, this is for the public to access the park instead of driving all the way around and going in the other entrance. And that whole strip of land there.

Um, Swift Mud did something kind of funky. Where's Where's the cursor? I'm not sure where we're at.

See, where's it?

Okay, I got it. All right, so go ahead.

And so there you see the south branch of the river, which the county already did that bridge. And then if you zoom out, you can see where the north bridge is. And go north.

Keep going.

How long is the trail?

Oh, there's trails all over, but

no one can access it. very few people access it because there's no place there's no parking and no signage or anything. So, we're trying to make this a a good access. But keep going. Who Who's controlling this?

You got to get to the river.

Keep going.

There you go. It's up there.

Can you shrink? If you shrink it, then you'll There's the river. See where it says Anklet River? No. Okay. Go in a little closer. It says Anklet River when you're at the northern part. Keep going. Okay, there it says Anklet River.

So there's no way to get from one side of the park to the other without that bridge.

And so just um little clarification on the agreement that we have with the water management district. We manage the people and security and they manage the land. Um, and so whenever I think Commissioner Starky called this out, whenever we're on rescue missions, when someone decides to go for a hike and they don't know where they are, um, sometimes it gets challenging, we have to go all the way around. Um, so this really kind of,

um,

it's a security issue.

It's a security and public safety issue as well. But, um,

but if someone's going to go to the right side and get all that over there.

Yes, they could. Yes. Yes. And there's different

Could please go back to the slide.

The map. the map.

How long is the bridge projected to be from that point to across?

You see where the wetland signature um it it the br the the historical bridge was at the skinniest part, but it's still it's still rather wide, Commissioner Mariana. So, I don't have the actual dimensions, but um I think the concern is crossing the flood plane is the issue because if you're going to build something, you want to make sure that it's it's high and dry throughout all times of the year. So it's at this again I think the length but it still gets to the skinniest part of that crossing right there.

Yeah.

So show me show

beautiful up there too.

Show me in the cursor from point A to point B.

All right. So Khalil, go move the cursor. Do see that white line going north there. Just follow that. Yeah. Straight right there.

So from there to there.

Yeah. It's No, no, no. Go back to where you were. It's lit. And then All right. Go. No. Move the cursor.

Yeah. I'm not sure which where if the bridge was there or over to the right.

It was it was close to right there.

Right there. Yeah. I was

zoom in right there.

So pretty there.

So right there due north.

Yeah.

All right. So how far is that distance?

It's about I mean

it's about 1,000 ft.

And you when you add the flood plane into it, it could be a little bit greater.

Have we have we done bids on metal bridges or

We haven't done No, we haven't. So I I' I've made I put this in capital request for this I think the third year fourth year in a row and it hasn't it's been remained unfunded. Um

no the bridge compan

I know we should we should bid get a bid. You know we've got 4,000 acres there. Can you zoom out again? So the top half was 12,000 acres. We have 4,000 acres that's not being used at all basically because we have no access to it. Um, and if I could say the family has uh restrictions on the top 8,000 acres or 12,000 acres of or I'm sorry, it's 8,000 acres of it has to stay in its wilderness form.

Who owns the property?

Uh, much water management district owns

and but we we have the right to use it.

Um, there's no restrictions like that on the bottom 4,000. Those 4,000 acres were purchased for mitigation for the Sun Coast, but they don't have the restrictions that the top half has, but it's absolutely beautiful out there. You just can't get to it because we haven't the only right now the only ones who could really get to it are the people in Starky Ranch and uh because no one else knows that there's a public access right there. You can't get to it from the northern part of the park. or someone that braves off the Sun Coast and peels off one of the trails then gets lost.

Yeah, it gets lost, which happens. One of my girlfriends just told me they got it. Um, and you can see there's nice trails and everything in there. So, anyway,

I think that's a great idea if we can use CDGR.

We'll look into it. I mean, I'm I'm looking at the total dollars. I mean, that's under a $45 million project in total. Just got some land and some access issues, but

Okay.

All right. So, just moving on. We're almost done. Thank you for your patience. I know it's a lot of information. Um, so just

Sunset Ranch.

Uh,

uh, very talk about that one a lot.

Okay. Well,

enough to talk about it. Okay.

All right. Um, kind of getting back to ranking and prioritization. This is just a refocus on the capital plan. Highlighted everything that's tied to concurrency matches the funding that we just talked about. And this is just your parks director's recommendation for at least maybe further discussion. So everything on the left is is the recommendation to focus on the capital plan tied to the impact fee study on the concurrency related projects that we've taken down through development and anything else that we already have actively in play. So I put the actual status. Um, I didn't really talk about timelines too much because we're all still relatively early in all these um, projects. Uh, typically it takes anywhere between 12 to 18 months for design and permit. Uh, with the Seymar, hopefully we can hit the ground running on construction on a lot of these much quicker. If it's not Seymar related, then you're looking at another 8 to 10 months for RSQ and construction. If you bounce over to the right referencing the opportunity projects that we just ran through, our recommendation is let Elamp do what Elmp does, which is it's got a very clear process. It's got a selection committee. It it goes in front of the board for acquisition. We prioritize that based on ecological corridors and other environmentally um sensitive projects. And then we get to everything else. Again, this is just for discussion. I think Hopkins is a tremendous opportunity for the county, both for utilities and for the parks department. just because of how close they are. Connected cities. Um I was loosely a part of of that in the beginning when the requirement was moved over uh to VOP. I think there is a need there. Um and I think in listening to the board on, you know, during several public hearings, I think it's the board's desire to want to do something there. So rank that relatively high. The question mark is

I don't know where the money's coming from. That's that's basically Yes, ma'am. What about um Magnolia Valley? Because we have a big deficit over on that side.

So, I didn't add that because I didn't see that.

Well, yeah, that's on the left.

Oh, because I'm on the wrong page.

Yeah, it's okay. It's a lot of pages. And Mike called out that I did not number these. So, if you take the staple out, you're in trouble. So, um All right. So, connected cities is important. school projects that we just discussed I think is also a tremendous opportunity because it allows us to leverage and improve an existing public asset. Again, not sure how we're going to fund it. Talked about Burks. I think the property next to Burks is also a very important opportunity. Um again, funding is an issue. And then the other is I guess any other project that was on the list that you want to talk about of which we don't have funding for as of today. So, um I think last thing I want to say is um still some unresolved issues. Your capital maintenance need for your existing inventory still stands at 8 to12 million a year. I appreciate the $3 million last year from the general fund. Um and then if we add 550 million eventually or over time, you're going to have an on and m cost associated to all that. I just I wanted to be a good steward of the budget and just put this out there that that's what your increase would be based on I mean traditionally everyone used to say that it's anywhere between three and 5% of the capital cost but because we're seeing the capital costs just grow so like just out of out of this world crazy I'm thinking that the percent on and m ratio probably is going to drop because just because a project cost four or five times what we thought it was five years ago doesn't mean we need four or five times more operating expenses and needs. But anyway, that's just that's just there because I I think we need to remind ourselves that it's something we we can't ignore. So, that is all I have. Um I'd be happy to answer any questions on projects that were not ranked or that I did not reference as a priority or get any other direction that you see as appropriate.

I think we could talk about a direction about funding total.

Now, the state legislature if they put that $100,000 exemption for the first year We have no money for parks, no money for libraries, no money for social services. We have $6 million in the hole which just funding what they want. I know we brought this up a couple years ago about doing an MSP. We pass an MSP. We just haven't put in money to it.

I remember years ago looking at Coral Springs where that area where they would put something in for your parks, for your libraries, all sorts of other things that were in there all broken up into tax area. We had never done it because we're so well let's say uninccorporated that we had control. But with what we have in front of us, I'm just wondering what the temperature of the board is. Are we looking at maybe funding the MST this year because then we can protect it, at least show the citizens, here's where your money is going to go. So, Commissioner Wait,

thank you.

Short answer for me is yes. And I I think MSTU is important. meeting with Mike that was hearing hearing from the senior board members what happened in '08 and the bottom fell out of the market and clearly the market demand from our citizens is we want parks we want them beefed up they need to be diversified and it's something that folks really really want and as we all know through the budget process it can be a bit sporty and I I'm for funding the MSTU the all- in MSTU for multiple reasons. one uh being it it protects department budgets from personalities like myself uh when it comes when it comes into budgeting which I feel is very very important very I'm self-aware enough to to recognize that um but that it was my intention to have an all-in not just maintenance but an all-in parks fee and I know I've been rather difficult on it but it's it's it's for this very reason is to protect that budget to make sure it stays whole. And if it comes time, you know, that that future boards want to, you know, um go back in and try to restructure that it it you have to have some real serious dialogue. But to create and fund a new tax, it really needs to have a generational benefit. And that was my intention with this all in parks MSTU is that the generational benefit and impact for the future for all ages of our residents is to me incredibly important. It's one of the key pillars of of this job. And so I'm for funding the parks MSTU uh and um whatever you know that that number of course obviously there'd be a commensurate cut at some level or form however we make it work. uh in in the in the budget, right, to balance it out from the general fund. But I'm I'm I'm all all for this. I think it's a it's a critical time in our county for Keith's department, for the parks department and the Elamp program in general. Um and and so I'd be favorable to coming up with a solution on this front.

Well, I've never hidden I've never hidden that. thought we were way underfunding parts and um and I and I don't care if it's an all-in MSTU or it's all in somewhere, but I I think that um it's critical that we fund him to the to what he needs. I think it'll be a legacy for this board if we get the parks going the way we want for this county. I think our citizens love the parks. We We definitely have a deficit. We all get the phone calls. Uh, I can't tell you how often Mr. Fred McGriff texts me, Starky, where's my ball fields? Where's the little league fields? So, um, we we we need to uh make up for a generations of inadequate funding for parks. I I tell the story that when I moved to Pasco County 92, 93 maybe. Um until Starky Ranch District Park was built, there hadn't been any added ball fields on the west side of the county. I mean, my god, that that's a lot of that's a lot of growth with no added added fields, whether it be softball or multi-purpose. So, um I think the last park that we had opened was Veterans Park,

Lando. It would have been Land of Lakes.

Well, that's not the west side. Yeah. I'm just talking in the west of 41. And um and and over those 30 years, how many kids moved into and and people moved into the west side? And I tell Keith, the park's got to be for everybody. I mean, I got, you know, I've coached 25 years youth you youth sports, my husband and I, but I also like to go to the parks and I'm not um, you know, playing sports anymore, per se, but still still cycling. But we also need to consider the older generations of too, but I'm all in.

Commission.

Yep. No, I agree with um Commissioner Waitman that we have to definitely fund Keith, get us up and going. It'll definitely be our um the legacy of this board. I think it's important to our community and um I think, you know, when we're all together and we talk about the budget and what's going to happen with the legislature that um we're making parks a priority. So, I'm excited. So I go back to when we put the go bonds out 72% as we saw voted for these go bonds and parks and library be a big part of it. So I think our people have spoken very clearly that they want to go they saw penny for pasco money to go to improve the quality of life and again with the pressure we're getting from the state above I think it's a good time to step away. Um you talk about the west side Shady Hills been begging for a field or two. Matter of fact, one time we're working with the Rays to go build a little field out there, but we couldn't make it work.

That could have been a mini stadium type thing, a field. They've got we've got land out there as well. We could develop that. I know it's important to try to work with the schools if we can, but our facilities, we have a great place. Should be a priority to go forward. So, I Shady Hills could be one and Angle Park again 30 acres sitting out there to go could do a lot, especially with all the homes have been approved in that area. It's over capacity now with all those homes when they come online is going to be even stronger. So I think it's something to come forward. Now when we were trying to do this two years ago, Keith and I had our conversations. I told him I don't think it's right for the board with the hostile people that we had right working with the personality personality. Um, so with all that we're going through, I just didn't think it was the right time. Feeling the pressures that were there and just sensing it. So I didn't think it was good for us to bring it forward. I think it was going to go. Uh, when we had the workshop, we had support, support, support. I go, let's go with it. And I made comment to that. But when we get down to the line, we weren't ready to go. So, I just want to make sure if we're going to make this move to go forward that we're going to be a lock step, strong and solid, and support whatever numbers we pick as we're going forward. I don't want to go out there, let it hang, and fight that battle. The legislature we got in front of us, it's big. Commissioner Whitman.

Yeah. Thank you. So, when since I'm the lone east side guy here today, accounted roughly 23 parks west of 41 and 11 east of 41. And with the expansive growth on the east side of the county, it's, you know, luckily there's facilities west. We don't have the facilities east, uh, done, you know, in in its it's time. Look, I I would have supported the parks MSTU the first go round, but I felt that it the structure wasn't right and it needed to be allin. If we're going to create a new tax and fund it, it needed to be in my opinion an all-in encompassing MSTU for the future of park sites and not just maintenance. Uh maintenance is great, but clearly we need to, you know, expand the park footprint. So now that that structure is in place to be an all-in encompassing MSTU, um I'm fully supportive of of funding it just with commensurate cuts, you know, proportionately, however we work that out to the general fund. Um and that way we kick it off for a a successful a successful launch. So, I won't be I won't be a difficult personality this budget cycle uh when it comes to the fund when it comes to funding the parks the parks piece the parks piece. I'm very excited and I'm grateful to the board to to to listen to me for however many months and and coming around and u to amend the language of the parks uh MSTU to have an allencompassing parts MSU. very grateful to you all. So, um, thank you for that.

Okay, Commissioner Starky was up, then she just wait for this.

I just have a couple ideas that are outside of this discussion here. Um, my husband and I are realizing our dream of getting something out west and I So, I've been digging into the ordinances of the little town of where we're working on something. It just incorporated in 2008. I wanted to read this to you. I thought this is very interesting. I I I'm listening to their public town meetings and read it's it's I guess I have a a sickness. Um so in each subdivision, land shall be reserved and improvements installed for public space. Public space may include parks and playgrounds or other recreation purposes. Such area shall be shown and marked on the plat as reserved for public space. Installation of recreational areas shall be constructed at the expense of the applicant and built to town standards. Public space will be required in each subdivision based on the following formula providing 3 acres of public space per 100 residential lots or units and 2 acres per 100 commercial lots. Subdivisions with less than 100 residential commercial units shall provide dedicated public space on a prora basis. When the percentage from the above formula would create less than two acres, the planning commission may require that public space be located at a suitable place on the edge of the subdivision so that additional land may be added like the next door subdivision as the adjacent land is subdivided. The planning commission may refer such proposed reservations to the town engineer or town planner. Land reservation for recreation purposes shall be of a character and location suitable for use as a playground, playfield, or other recreational purposes and shall be relatively level and dry. This is mountainous. Uh unless there's a a variation approved for good cause. Subdivisions between two to 20 lots shall include amenities such as a small park with community garden or a plaza with a covered seating area. Subdivisions between 21 lots and 50 lots shall provide amenities such as a park with play equipment or dog walking park or large community garden. Subdivisions between 50 51 lots and 75 a park with equivalent of two tennis courts and a gathering area. subdivisions greater than 76 lots. Amenities will be with park area with seating, a ball field, and parking spaces. I wonder if it's time to reook at how we, you know, I I helped put that one acre per 100 houses in a long time ago, and it's not really well thought out. So, that's one thing. Um,

um, there's there and there's more. I'll I'll copy this and send it to you all. And I I know Keith I see Keith wants to say something. My other question is what do the cities require in their subdivisions?

Keith.

Well, I think Commissioner Jagger was next. Sorry.

Okay. So, no, I just wanted to make a comment that I think it's I think it's important to keep the public involved in in the whole big picture, right? Like taking EMS off the uh moving it to the MSTU. So then people just don't hear like tax hike.

We're gonna be moving things.

Yeah. We're going to be moving things around. So it doesn't necessarily mean your taxes are going up.

So I just want to make sure that's that's we're clear in our messaging that parks is going to get tons of love, but we are moving some things around.

So restructuring.

Correct. And and we've discussed the various alternatives with advertising the trim um with you and we'll we'll be coming back with some questions on that. Absolutely.

Go ahead.

Keith,

um, Commissioner Starky, I was first I was wondering, do they have a directorship in that city? Is it in Colorado? Because I just um sounds like a a very close similarity to the neighborhood park ordinance that you referenced that we currently have. That's a develop.

I agree. It's been something that we've struggled with implementing specifically on the multif family side, but uh yeah, um, opportunities there. And if I So, um, I just I'm gonna maybe go off of what Commissioner Weightman said in terms of passion. I mean, you have we have all the right people in place, all the right people that know how to move this vision forward in a way that's going to produce products that you're going to be proud of. We're just missing we're missing this final piece. And when you see the renderings and you see the thoughtful approach and the improvements and you saw Pine Hill and and all these other things that we're doing, Commissioner Starky, you're right. I mean, this will be these will this will be a legacy gamechanging kind of thing in terms of parks. Um and and in some cases, parks are going to be commercial anchors for certain communities. It's just going to happen. It's happening already right now. So, um good news is uh we do have a restructured MSTU that does allow us to kind of go allin. The only piece that I think that we're missing as of right now is maybe maybe the extra capital growth piece that historically we've relied on the impact fees for. Um I we might need to run some calculations on that. Um but uh I think that's just a conversation with OM Mike and Kathy. I think we just kind of work on those numbers and get those numbers back to the board for consideration. But we're we're ready to work on that legacy vision piece. I mean you you we have all the right people in place to do that now. So Keith, let me ask a question. Budget Terry, we've got proposals for increasing the impact fees, correct?

Coming up.

No.

Uh impact mobility fees are coming forward to you.

Not for parks.

Parks. Parks we took care of about a year and a half.

I don't think I'd survive another So all all your calculations are in right now.

3500.

Oh my. So the Yeah.

All your revenues are now showing.

Yes. That went that went into effect uh last year.

Okay. So So we got a still a big shortfall.

Yes, sir. do a bond.

So, this is going to be something where if we're going to come forward to make this effective, it's one thing to take it out of the general budget and move it over to an MSTU, but if we're going to catch up, we're going to have to look to say we're raising the fee. We're raising money. It's an offset. We're separating it out now, so people are going to see it year to year. So, when we don't need it, we get caught up, we can bring it back down again, right?

But if we're going to make these capital investments just like we did with the GO bonds,

here's what we're going to go do. These are the projects we're going to go do. And here's how we're going to have to fund it. If you separate that out, you're looking it's going to be not just the offset, but an increase. Otherwise, you you're not doing it yet.

I'm aware.

And and Commissioner Mariano, we have the project.

It's the startup cost to the MSTUS. Basically, what it is if you put in layman's terms, right, Mike?

Well, what I'm what I'm hearing uh and what I

because there's a delay. It's in the rear.

Yeah. So, what I'm what I'm hearing here is is we're and what our plan is right now is to take what is currently the park's budget, you know, and flip-flop that, right? So, the commensurate reduction,

it's not going to be 100% chunk of it, you know, to of course there's general fund pressure and I've gone through all those numbers with you, but we would start where we start basically a baseline. I'll just call it an MSTU. What you're suggesting here is tacking perhaps a higher number to that, whether it's this year or at some point in the future. there will be growth in that fund and we haven't talked about what those projections and those MSTUs look like. We'll have those conversations and then the board can see are we comfortable with where the millillage is set you know and and maybe that's maybe that's not a this year conversation maybe that's a future year conversation based on what happens with parks our execution rates etc. So what you're saying is startup cost here we are let's grow and then we can we can modulate from there. So, let me make a recommendation then.

Let's go take a look at this. I think your one-on- ones would be important coming up. Um, look at the five districts. They're all over. Let each commissioner pick a certain number or whatever it may be as we look at it. And each commissioner pick from each single district. We're going to go two million, three million, whatever the number may be, and do a project this way here with each of us as we're talking. We're saying we're doing it countywide. Everyone's getting get protected. You're not making the big jump you need to make, but you're not just shifting funding sources, but you're getting some stuff done and laying the groundwork like here's what's coming up.

Yeah.

And then after that, we can look at other things. And then keeping the public involved, keeping the citizens involved every step of the way. Here's what the next things are coming up. And you at least can do that and show here's what's going to happen with the first projects. you know, whether it be the River Park, whether it be Magnolia Valley, whatever it may be on the east side, you can show something that here's what we're going to go do. And if it's spread out evenly because you always have the east, west, north, south, now you'd be able to take care of all that argument as well and show this is the way we're going to do it in the future, project by project by project. Not like 10 at once, but one by one as you go,

Keith. Um, so I think that you already have the lists pre-baked. So I think that that that approach makes sense. Um, I don't know if some of you recall, we had kicked around the idea of of market MSTUS kind of commissioner Mariana to your point, not district, but using the planning uh department's market areas and you could then be very project specific to say and this mark this is just a suggestion since we're I don't know maybe brainstorming. um you could say this is the list of projects within this specific MSTU for this area and then you're only making that assessment for you know for that project cost there a little more complicated I hear Jeff now um maybe there's a legal issue we can't do that but that that's also an option I think as well let me say Henry

if we're going to be spending the money we're going to increase the fee to go do certain projects I think you should talk to each one of us.

Get some. You need to come up with some numbers that that look good, but get something for each different different district. It shows it's done countywide in each district. Everything's population based. It's balanced out and it can show to make the steps. We got a long way to go, but at least we're going to make a start with a project in each district to what's going to be effective. And we can show that boom, boom, boom. And everybody's going to be able to then look at it as we're talking. would take care of the whole economy, not just part of it.

Right. And then I think Mike, I mean, I'm assuming if the capital need is satisfied, that rate then could be lowered at that point. If I mean if

it's going to be a long time before your capital need is

well I mean I'm hearing like a startup number and and obviously you know you have a a production issue in terms of how much you can get done anyway but I I'm kind of like thinking that if an assessment's set and it includes a modified ad for capital growth that you know that's going to eventually kind of come down because that need will have been built and then you just have the operation and maintenance piece. So I think it could be lowered down. I don't know. What I'm what I'm thinking of is kind of your standard what a baseline MSTU would look like and then we can have an MSTU scenario uh whether that's in year zero or a future where we accomplish those projects and the board can consider those two cases. I mean, we further can comp I mean, it further complicates it a little bit if we start doing market because then, you know, Jeff and I were just, you know, Jeff was opining uh about having a a broader MSTU and then you have your your separate MSTUs that that's probably not a a non-starter. we would

you're you're going to have to form individual MSTUS for the geographic area that you're talking about, but this isn't far off from what you've already you've already expressed to the board, which is

linking your capital improvements program

to the MSTU funding. You're just

I think what chair is asking for is the capital improvement program would be by district.

Just build equity build equity in it.

What was in it? Just when we used to do program maintenance,

right?

We had like

$2 million a district, let's say, for a number and you would pick

it's a budgeting. It becomes a budgeting exercise.

Spread around the whole county. So, you don't need those individual districts, but it it let the people know that money was going to be spent taking care of the roads here, there, there, and everyone was even

and no one had to worry about it.

Understand?

It made it made for a real good balance, and we never had trouble.

Was it pretty simple every year, everyone looked quick. up with district commissioner and says I want to get this one done. I said that one shifts were made and it worked very very well. You can do the same type of thing here. Now the other thing I want to bring up cities especially the ones that blighted properties

that's was my

that we just they just go by by they don't do anything with it but they own a lot of land and keep on buying stuff. I want to make sure they're going to be contributing in here one way or the other. And I will say this just so we don't jeopardize it. If they're not going to come in good faith to go put the same type of MST in or something like that, we use that for leverage for later on to say we just put this much money in. You haven't helped us with it. You're going to have to put more money in because you're taking money from your CRAAS to go forward.

I have MSTU discussions being scheduled with the various city managers now. Um and and we'll have those conversations. I do believe, you know, that city residents benefit from county parks. Our cities don't have regional parks. Our cities don't have these amenities necessarily that that we do. And so I would argue that, you know, they ought to pay into that because they use those facilities.

C. And can you also ask them what, you know, I'm going to give you this handout that from my little town has. And I want to ask them what are they requiring in their subdivisions? because you know I look at Dade City and they're doing 40footers all over the place, but what are they reserving for their res residents?

So,

and I do want to really look at our at at our neighborhood park ordinance and make it better. Chair, if I could. So, Commissioner Starky, that was not an unusual concept in Florida in the 80s and 90s.

What?

That exactly what you read is what most most local governments did was they had they they they

they had recreational open space and they had

sort of the environmental preservation open space for all their subdivisions. Pasco in 2006 moved away from that concept of requiring open space per subdivision and went to the current wildlife guarders. So

neighborhood parks in our order

actually the neighborhood parks came back in afterwards when you got rid of all your open space in in subdivisions. But it it's a it's a policy choice for the board. My point is it's a policy choice for the board. it sort of has ebbed and flowed um as commission thought one thing was more important than another. But but basically your wildlife corridors were the thing that took up the required open space per subdivision.

But not not every not every subdivision is anywhere near the wildlife corridor.

Understand that. I'm just saying you that was a choice that was made in 2006. It may be time to revisit that. But that was

I was gonna say hell yeah, but I'm probably getting I say heck yeah.

Fix that.

Hell yeah.

So I'll say I think probably is a very good time to talk about it. Talk about the tree mitigation fund, etc.

Maybe that's a way to keep open space

without going down the other way.

Chair, if I may. Um I think I think I think there's also an opportunity here because we're in the process of updating our comp plan. Um we'll be bringing that to the board later this year for adoption. But then

the following piece of that then becomes the updated land development code and I think that this conversation regarding you know park requirements is is opportune for that those discussions too as well. I really like the idea how they put it on the edge of a subdivision and then when the you know I don't know what's opportunity we have left but when another one comes in then that public space you know we started requiring that in a lot of our multifamily uh developments is having something that the public can where the public can gather and I think that's so smart because then you build well you're going to see this and but then you see places where people want to go

and and you got to have that in your county or it's just a Lock County.

Just a last comment on that. So, um, my team is working with planning department on the comp plan, open space policies, options for civic space, neighborhood parks. So, I think when you see the LDC change changes come up, that's when we're going to really get into tweaking those. Um, I think it's going to be a great opportunity. So, yeah,

I think it's a great little dialogue right there. I think it's a good time to take a look at what we're doing. And certainly I will say this, if we've shortened the requirements on apartments, shame on us, should not happen. And maybe especially those things should have more open space as well.

Yeah. Yeah. We we give them waivers. They have to they put in less public space that's required.

We need to eliminate any waivers for those.

Yeah.

Anything high density.

All we do is stress our other properties when we do that.

All right. Anything else? I just want to say

go to your second to last slide.

Thank you. So based on Keith's recommendations here, we're going to be looking at, you know, those four or five bullets that that he's got outlined there with probably an air of a little more urgency and seriousness. And while we don't necessarily have funding aside from them, we're going to try to take them as a priority to to look for funding and alternative sources. I just want to be clear with the board that this is really going to be where where I think we need to focus our efforts. That Hopkins piece I think was was important. That connected cities was a was a pledge from the board to the public. Um the the school projects there seems to be broad support for that pushing that forward and then expansion over over at Burks. I recognize that there may be others that are that are cropping in.

Um correct. Anklo River I see

lease out there.

I see those as smaller smaller dollar ones to me and and I think there's some DR I think that was a great idea commissioner to to look at some DR funding on that. um probably could be tied to to flooding, but you know, I'll have to check with with Chuck on on how that

Well, I'm talking about number one on the

What are you talking about? The one on the right.

Oh, I'm talking about the question marks on the side. The ones on the left, I I treat those as

we're we're we're moving ahead. They're active. They're active. It's these other ones, these opportunities, as Keith calls them because we don't get to pick when the opportunities present themselves. They present them and we either take advantage of them or we don't. But some of these are really good. So, I just want to be clear with the board that's that's going to be our approach and um I'm I'm good.

So, let me let me float one thing just as you mentioned park years ago when they used to look at the deputies out there would give tickets for people parked all over the place. 90% of the tickets were from Penelis County.

Yeah, I we need to look at that.

If there's some parks change to go take care of our people first,

we should be doing that.

It's an enforcement issue. We would but yeah, we could talk about that off offline. whatever whatever it may be. So, kind of like, you know, go to a golf course, get tea times. Maybe the same thing with boat launches for that. You got to be a resident first. If there's openings, we'll let others go in, but let's take care of our people first.

And, you know, I rode my bike around there uh last year. I think I showed you the picture where I found multiple people parked with their trailers taking three spots because they weren't pulling in straight.

There were tons of them that were taking three, many of them had two. Very few were just taking one parking spot.

Well, they all get ticket.

Yeah, I I rode I chased down the park guy.

Yeah, the team has the ability to actually ticket. It's It's um It's the consequences of ticketing that usually I think gets them a little concerned. So,

it's so hectic. You taking more than your one spot. That's

Yeah. Yeah. That's clearcut. That's just completely inconsiderate.

Yeah.

Well, we had an incident once, didn't we?

Yes.

Yeah. I think Kathy had

just go ahead.

Yeah. I just want to say something. I don't know if I'm on or not, but I just want to say thank you to the board for all your support for parks each and every year. Um Keith and his team, they rock it. I think we have one of the best park and reccks departments in the state and and Mike's support, too. So, I just want to say thank you.

I want to thank the board, too, because I tell you, this this dialogue is much needed, and it's tough figuring out what to do, especially when times are tough, etc. So, I'm glad we have the dialogue. It was great presentation today. Thanks the team for everything and for bringing this forward.

Yeah. And I' I'd like to pile on to Cathy's accolades both to the board and and and to our team. You know, we talk about our culture of people, purpose, and performance. And one of the things about people is is obviously treating them well, but it's also providing them with the resources that they need to do their jobs. And by providing them the resources and connecting them to that purpose, that performance, they're they're going to tear it up. So, just really thank you uh for that as well. And again, thank you uh Keith for your leadership, Kathy, for your leadership of the branch, but Keith, your leadership of this department and to your team who really go out there and make it happen.

Anything else from the board? Keep warm.

All right. Thank you all very much. Appreciate it.

Thank you. It's It's warmer there than it is where

No, but it's like it's like you don't It doesn't even have a name. Utah.

Well, I love it. All right.