1.23.24 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Meeting (Afternoon Session)

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uh I'd like to call back to order of Pasco County Board of county commissioner meeting of January 23rd 2024 please silence all electronic devices and mute your microphones I will proceed with u public hearing starting with ordinances uh P36 approve a publication for P36 is the Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 good afternoon Commissioners Denise Hernandez Planning and Development item P36 is PDD 2460 this is a ordinance amending the Pascal County comprehensive plan changing the future land use from res 6 to Res 12 the request is to continue the item to a date uncertain motion approval date uncertain second okay got a motion and second all those in favor say I I I motion pass 5 Z move on to p37 p37 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 22nd 2023 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings the item was continued from the January 9th 2024 BCC meeting to today Mr chair uh p37 we're going to move that till after p41 so that we can hear p37 together with um the actual resoning item which is p48 so if we can move on to P38 please okay P38 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times January 10th 2024 P38 is P38 is PDD 24004 today this is the adoption for this item so this is uh PDD 24 040 as I stated it's an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County comprehensive plan providing for a map and text amendments to a future land use element chapter 2 G flu six J Ben Herold Villages of Pasadena Hills to expand the boundaries of the special district amend the boundary of Village B and Village F in figures ph1 PH2 ph3 ph4 ph4 a ph5 ph6 ph7 ph8 and amend tables PH2 and ph3 and other amendments as necessary for internal consistency providing for severability and an effective date uh this uh comes to you with a recommendation that you find it consistent with a comprehensive plan uh and that you adopt by roll call vote please take public comment on this matter this was presented to the Pasad Hills peny and policy committee on October 18th of 23 and the local planning Agency on November 2nd 2023 your first reading on this item was on November 14th of 23 okay uh is there anyone in in the audience wish to speak to this item it is public hearing seeing no one I entertain a motion motion okay I have I have a motion and a second by roll call vote District Two commissioner waitman hi District three commissioner starky I District Four commissioner Bradford I District Five commissioner Mariano I district one chairman Oakley I motion pass 5 uh move on to the next item 399 yeah proof of publication Tampa Bay Times January 10th 2024 P39 is PDD 2441 on this item we're asking that you please take public commment and adopt by a roll call vote it's an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development code section 602 J Ben

order for that or we're going to do p41 and then after that we're going to go back to p48 all right p41 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times December 27th 2023 January 3rd 2024 January the 10th 2024 and January the 17th 2024 p41 is PDD 4209 it's an ordinance amending the Pascal County ordinance number 2252 expanding the boundaries of Two Rivers East Community Development District pursuant to chapter 190 Florida Statutes providing for miscellaneous Provisions providing providing for an effective date if you would please take public comment and adopt the ordinance by roll call vote is anyone here to speak to this item seeing no one no one signed up on WebEx no one's on WebEx uh is this by roll call vote it is it is District Two commissioner waitman District three I didn't get a motion a motion move to approve second motion second by roll call vote District Two commissioner waitman District three commissioner starky hi District Four commissioner Bradford hi District Five commissioner Mariano I district one chairman Oakley I motion pass 5 Z move on to now we go back to C10 P p37 I apologize I said by you already did C10 um you call for a motion on C10 it's been approved so we need to go back to 37 I got okay all I got you all right so we're at what which one now we're at p37 and then that will be followed by p48 okay all right p37 p37 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 22nd 2023 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings the item was continued from the January 9th 2024 BCC meeting to today e37 is PDD 24009 today we're asking that you take public comment and you adopt it by adopt this item by roll call vote it's an ordinance amending the Pasco County comprehensive plan providing for a comprehensive plan amendment to Future land use map map 2-15 and Sheet four changing from res one residential one dwelling units per gross acre to Res 3 residential three dwelling units per gross acre on approximately 38.7 Acres of real property located north north of H Hudson Avenue and 1.68 mil west of Hayes Road this item comes to with a recommendation of approve that you find it consistent with the comp the recommendation that they found it consistent with the comprehensive plan and recommend approval to the board by the local planning agency who heard this item in December of 20123 okay Mr chairman yes uh my understanding is that these are 50s and 60s yes these are going to be 50s and 60s yes thank you okay uh anyone in the audience to speak to this item Mr chairman yes um the reason I wanted these heard together is there's a couple of things I want to address in the zoning on p48 um I know it's just an adoption but there are some things before we did one I'd rather do both together so p48 I want i' like to talk about that before we actually move

forward with this here what we get doing p37 right now I believe we right but but the zoning Amendment coming behind it so I think what the commissioner is asking is that we you not take action on B 37 37 until you hear the resoning and then take separate motions on 37 and 48 once you finish okay the zoning hearing move to uh p48 approve of publication you've taken public comment on this come back to public comment no we public comment public comment here for uh this item 37 seeing none we'll move on to p48 p48 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 22nd 2023 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings the item was continued from January 9th 2024 BCC meeting to today Mr chairman since you're starting on your resoning agendas would you like me to do the procedures since we dropped in yes sir I believe believe I'm ready there are two resoning agendas regular and consent staff will present each application to the board of County Commissioners if staff for Planning Commission has recommended approval and there is no opposition the application will be considered by the board without further presentation if staff for Planning Commission has recommended denial or if there is opposition to the application the applicant will be given five minutes for presentation the opposition will be given three minutes for each individual or five minutes for a group representative and the applicant will be given 3 minutes for rebuttal any individual disagreeing with staff or Planning Commission recommendation or anyone wishing to object to any condition of the rezoning May at this time request the petition be pulled from the consent agenda in which case that application will be heard under the regular agenda later on during the meeting otherwise all resoning applications on the consent agenda will be approved by a single motion and vote if you wish to speak to any petition please give your name name and and address and whether or not you've been sworn for the record these are Quasi judicial public hearings the law in Florida is that mere public sport or opposition of an application is insufficient for this board to take action please limit your comments to those criteria found within the board's Land Development code for rezoning Madame clerk would you like to swear the public in yes anyone wishing to speak and be sworn in please stand raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth so help you God when you come to the podium to speak for the record please indicate whether you have been sworn state your name and address and spell your last name thank you okay so so we're going to do p48 p48 um yeah okay so p48 is PDD 2477 32 Hudson family Trail MPD master plan unit devel development HW HGC n LLC it's for resoning from an AC agricultural District to an mpud master plan unit

development District which will allow the development of 116 single family detached units which are going to be 60 foot W wide lots and 50 foot foot wide Lots um per the conditions of approval included in your agenda packet um this comes through the recommendation of approval with conditions from the planning and development department and the Planning Commission as well is this going to be by Road call or this is a regular regular vote and I will say it's listed as regular but I don't believe there's anyone here sign that has to speak uh this is a public hearing do anyone in the audience wish to speak to this item see a no one is anyone we I I would like to have the applicant come up I'd like to address some concerns I have and as the applicant does come up I want to say that I had a very good meeting with them they actually addressed some very strong concerns but in light of some of the testimony we heard today uh at public comment this morning I want to do a try to do a little bit more and see if they're willing to and I think they are um on this property um if you can we put an aial shot up on this property it's on Hudson Avenue it's 3.6 miles away from the entrance of Cobra way to Hudson High School there are no Trails uh sidewalks there's no lighting very little lighting I should say going up and down across the streets leg side which is another development now because it's 3.6 miles away kids will be busted but as we all know sometimes kids will find another way to school um the applicant has agreed to put a was it a 10 foot wide 10t 10 foot wide sidewalk out front which is great but it stops at the property line I would like us to be able to use uh the rest of Mobility fees that would be generated by the project and at least take at least an 8ft wide Trail as far down toward the school as we can uh in the future any other developments coming in the area like to do the same um they've agreed to put uh street lights out in front which I think is good but I think we need to make sure we have a room for a bus stop maybe at the entryway whatever for the bus to pick the kids up and take them right to school and I think we need to have one looked at for the other side at some point so when the kids get dropped off they can go across even some crossing lights at that point might be a good idea for both sides so the kids crossing over one way or the other uh can get back and forth um so would that maybe the applicant could comment to those first Commissioners we also understand the need for Public Safety um and that's why my my client agreed to go from 5 feet sidewalk to 10 foot and to do it um to the extent that we have Mobility fees that we can use offsite and we don't exceed those credits we're happy to you know continue the sidewalk um 8 feet or 10 feet whatever the county ultimately

wants okay street lights if we need to add some street lights we're already committed to doing street lights on Hudson Avenue to get this area lit um and then we can we can work with go and see what what their needs are as well we actually have a condition in our conditions of approval that require us to coordinate with go Pasco already so well with go Pasco the problem is go Pasco doesn't have a bus route that goes there so you're right I I just it's just a school think of the condition about go Pasco but you're right we got to coordinate with the school board so if there's a way to get credits to actually use the same credits for the Stop either way that's fine too but I I do want to just put that extra protection level that's out there the kids need a safe place to be able to get on it we're going to put the extra on we need to take every every measure we can right Mr cabal yeah I just want to add to the to the conversation here with when it comes to using Mobility fees and Mobility fee credits and I think what you're suggesting commissioner is the mobility fee credit Mobility fees generated by the site itself correct that's what you want to use yeah I'm just going the board the board obviously the pleasure of the board is the pleasure of the board but I will I will say that the structure that we have for Mobility fees we have districts and these Mobility fees pump into these districts and they do do projects that are already uh under consideration through through Engineering Services major major projects so if we divert funds by doing this that's fine it just it just takes away some Revenue I think this I don't know how many single family homes have 116 116 uh you know that's that's a small amount but I I just I want to let the board know that the the structure of the mobility fees and the mobility fee districts is to work on the collective not necessarily individual projects per se say um I'm just I'm just I'm understanding that he meant the mobility field generated by this project so so if I could add to that I think what Barber's commitment was to use the bike ped portion of the mobility fee for as much as that would go which is a little bit less of an impact to our CIP than if it's all Mobility fees is that that's true actually that's my understanding is that's the portion that we could use to do this okay okay and and I'll say for for the future as we come up with any projects in northwest of this area that needs it for both to the North End of the South and any projects coming in I'm going to be looking to use uh The Pedestrian part of this as well to try to get those built as quick as we can as we try to look to improve safety across the board and we may get some state grants that that come in help us do to do it as well so be it we'll use those two we can if that's included in the motion we'll work with the language with staff to get that into the MPD before it's signed okay that would be fine okay question question um just looking at your plan here um I do see you're not

connecting to anyone in the north that's correct actually but there's connections to the east and west to put it start making a grid that's correct get everyone off so that everyone doesn't have to use Hudson Avenue staff make sure we address those and we did okay so I got to take public comment on this item mhm anyone here to speak to public comment for this item seeing no one so I'll make a motion to approve with the conditions of working to get a bus stop on uh both sides of the road if possible for the project also an 8ot wide sidewalk using The Pedestrian part of the mobility fees going down as far as they can towards corra way and street lights are to be done as well along the property line does that fit in I want to mentioned for the record that p48 had email correspondents from staff get a second then I'll clarify if get a second on his motion and then all right I got a second uh commissioner when you said school bus stop Yes okay so yeah so I just don't okay no appreciate that school it was meant to be a school bus stop all right I've got a motion in a second is this roll call or not um the plan yes you have to take so let's table this motion okay table this one and go back to 37 and you need a motion on 38 for the comp compl 37 37 sorry for the compl move approval I got a motion and a second on uh p37 and that's a roll call vote that's a roll call vote District two commissioner waitman hi District three commissioner starky hi District Four commissioner Bradford hi District Five commissioner Mariano hi district one chairman Oakley I passes 5 Z then take 48 off the table and the motion is that's pending is for approval as Modified by commissioner Mar right okay so that's just regular vote on this one that's just a regular vote okay so I got a motion a second all those in favor say I I I all opposed like sign motion pass 5 thank you very much okay now we'll go back to p42 p42 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 p42 is PDD 24769 a zoning amendment in the name of next Metro little and Ross MPD master plan unit development citric Co Alliance LLC this item has actually be been withdrawn by the applicant so there's no further action required on this item no motion or anything okay all right move on to p43 p43 proof proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 p43 is pd24 7711 it's a zoning amendment in the name of next Metro IDs Corbett mpud IAS LLC and others uh the request is to continue the item to a date uncertain okay move to continue time uncertain second got a motion in second all those in favor say I I I motion pass 5 uh go to p44 p44 Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings p44 is pd24 cu3 in the name of Joan E Patterson Anthem net Inc Verizon Wireless for a 155 foot above ground

level monopo wireless communication facility in an a agricultural residential district the request is to continue the item to the February 20th 2024 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 in Newport Richie move to continue time certain second okay got a motion in second all those in favor say I I all all oppose like sign motion pass 5 Z did I take public you didn't need to it was a Oh was that's right there's mud p45 p45 Tampa Bay times November 22nd 2023 p45 is PDD 2411 is for an ordinance to amend to the Pascal County comprehensive plan the future land use element the request is to uh continue the item to a date uncertain okay entertain a motion to continue time certain uncertain uncertain uncertain second and a second all those in favor say I I motion pass 5 uh move on to p46 p46 Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 p46 is pd24 7745 it's a zoning Amendment State Road 52 industrial LLC to change the zoning from an i1 light Industrial Park District and a C2 General commercial District to a C2 General commercial district with a voluntarily agreed upon deed restriction that prohibits certain uses on the C2 District portion which are includ include but are not limited to standalone car washes vehicle Sal self storage facilities as included in your agenda packet under your finding a fact uh number 2A um also on this on this item I need to read a clarification into record um that has already been provided to the clerk's office um in the uh in in the form of the resolution being corrected uh number finding of fact number 8 should say the subject site has a future land use classification of Comm commercial um because that was based on a modification that was made by the board of County Commissioners Additionally the comprehensive plan amendment number should be Cass 2305 not 2205 uh this comes to a recommendation of approval from the planning and development department and the Planning Commission who heard the item on November 16th of 23 okay is anyone here to speak against this item I might have some questions I have a question too okay we'll pull that item off off consent and then we'll go on to uh p47 p47 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times November 1st 2023 p47 is PDD 24774 the name of Pascal Pipe Supply Inc for change in zoning from an R2 low density residential district to a C2 General commercial district with a voluntarily agreed upon deed restriction that uh that reserves the uses to those uses that are listed in the C2 General commercial District um zoning and comes here with a recommendation of approval from the planning and development department and the Planning Commission who heard the item on November 16th of 2013 okay is there anyone here to speak against this item see a no one um move approval the

consent agenda p47 second I got a motion second all those in favor say I I I motion pass 5 Z Now we move back to the item we pulled off which would be uh e 46 I believe that's right 48 46 46 46 You' already give us all that there was a question on this item yeah um is the applicant here the applicant is here oh it's par I don't remember anyone talking to me about this um first uh can someone explain what's going on here and have did I did we meet on this one is this the one that's next to the Sunco the angelene who who was it who was this cross Angeline who angelene this isn't Angeline no it's AC cross from cross street from I don't recall ever meeting on this one I'm sorry so can you describe this it's a it's a boat storage and A Self Storage no those are all the things that can't be so oh okay so all those things included all your favorites or non- favorites as the case may be um we also kind of did something interesting we took the industrial in the back because it's owned by rea the same the same group we took the industrial in the back and we put a deed restriction on that that doesn't allow us to go live local even though that's nothing to do with this resoning and we also restricted any retail off of that industrial even though your code allows 15% so we all not only did we take this one when we went to Comm it's already it's already commercial land use we're just changing the zoning to C2 but we looked at it as a property as a whole because it now has Comm and iil and we did some things that we thought you'd be favorable with which is one we restricted out some of the commercial uses that aren't the County's favorites the these days and we took the live local restriction and put it on the the commercial as well as our Industrial in the back which isn't subject to these amendments and we took out the retail off of the ability to do 15% retail off the industrial because it's allowed by land use so we tried to do a little bit more than just uh just the commercial zoning these are just out Parcels right on 52 at Sunlake extension and you've already changed the land us commercials so that's kind of the rest of the story so there's two there's two out Parcels at Sun Lake and 52 on the North side this property is on the North side um and they're that's what we're creating as two commercial out Parcels will they face Sun Lake um or will they face 52 we're on the north side I know but are they going to be in I don't know where Terry is they're going to face 52 we have our rumus court is our north south but the commercial Parcels will face 52 well that that that is one of my questions too is sunlock Sun Lake Boulevard dying at 52 it doesn't continue to go on why are we not planning for it to go on you have to have somebody else what's the grid plan for that area rumus Court's already there so that property's already all developed Mass graded rumus Court exists today as a private road well that

doesn't mean that we shouldn't have I mean that would be part of a long range Transportation plan I mean I can't speak to that at this moment as to why it doesn't but I mean the lrtp spells out what our transportation needs are and if Sun like Boulevard is DET terminated 52 I don't know Brad or but did anyone contemplate that maybe it should keep going I mean we make I've seen where roads stopped and they should have kept going and I I'm just curious sorry bar I just want to ask the question if anyone ask the question I'll I'll speak very IA that well um without too much detail here I would have to go back and do some research for details but my understanding is that there are some uh potential connections with the Sun Coast to the north that favor a different road going north there the road what that one that is to the West between Sun Lake and the Sun Coast not a current road I mean because we already that one's already jammed what's the next Road that's going to help relieve everybody I don't know if there's another one in that space yeah there there's a jog on this one a little bit so my my understanding is that uh the other one posed the the better alignment for the vision road to get there and also receive potential traffic from the Sun Coast so okay so it's not Shady Hills there's a new road coming oh yeah it's it's the new the new one does anyone know what that is we can get back to the commissioner on that that's a long range Transportation Planning I don't know if I have any longrange transportation planners here to answer Mr chairman uh I hadn't I hadn't looked at what was going on to the north here I know there's Wetlands above but I'm not sure if it directly affects this or not but what's out there right now is a couple of nice buildings that are it's it was a tough property I know for at least 15 years someone's been trying to do something with it and these and they've come in they built a couple of Nic looking buildings that go right across it the go I don't know if they can make the connection through anymore anyway I mean this is just for the front Parcels that's trying to straighten out it's it's a good industrial park that actually fits and uh they've done a good job to I think build a good-look structure as you come in okay Brad do they have better answers there I got great answers yeah uh actually Grove maybe it's it's Road a that comes Road a that comes out of the project Arthur development that that uh Business Park piece there that's right at the corner uh that is going to go north and merge into Shady Hills okay that was that was the intended route after the studies there's another road coming out of out ofel it's it's the piece that comes out of the the commercial and Industrial piece on the uh the North West corner of Angeline so the one that's owned by Jennifer Bexley yes the

the one that's Rain by the Bey family correct and that's going to connect to Shady Hills that's going to connect up to Shady Hills and create that parallel so there is no North South Road between Shady Hills and 41 that we consider we're not considering another route between those two I would have to go back and see if there was something further farther to the east but I believe Sun Lake and then there's a short jog on 52 um that get you over to Shady Hill just get those answers for commissioner starky and okay make sure she understands that cuz um this rhombus I mean I I know there's there's a house behind it but it's could have connected to Valencia potentially one day if possible okay behind it I just think we should be always working on a grid right all right so we got a motion in a second um we did yeah we did this when we pulled it off right no one okay well you have to take public comment too I think do we have any public comment on this item seeing none move approval got a motion second and a second all those in favor say I I motion pass 5 move on to I think it's 49 p49 p49 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times October the 11th 2023 the item was continued from the December 5th 2023 BCC meeting to today good afternoon William for million Planning and Development this is coming back before you guys today to show you the new section c exhibit which shows the 12T multi-use path running along the north side of Bexley so if you'll remember last time there wasn't sufficient rideway on the north side of section c to accommodate for that 12T multiuse path the applicant has worked in the interim to get that right of way to build the 12ft multi-use path that will now run through Section A B and C of this new alignment and we tweaked the um trigger for the CEOs I think within the development to help cover the cost I'm not sure I was unable to attend the meeting and Terry attended it in my stad um so if the applicant knows something about that I'm pretty sure we're good to go but that's what they were requesting in order to to make this accommodation thank you Charley Johnson 6400 Madison Street and I have been sworn we did talk to David about that and the MPD the way the condition is written we would have have to go back and do an amendment to our MPD oh so it the timing is just not going to work by that time the road will be built so we're good with yeah I know we tried we did try help you and and he he and I talked for a while and tried to kick around ideas but you know we can't get it says what it says so okay okay thank all right thank you um so this is something I took off because I I you know I I had gone in depth on this project and I think it's good to go now AR anybody uh in the public wish to speak to this item uh I would move approval second with discussion a motion in a second with discussion with

discussion okay yeah Mr chairman I'm I'm you know thankful that KB Holmes has done all they've done to make this project happen it was it was needed to make the connections but this is like major improvements offsite um so for them to step up and and make this extra move I want to thank them for doing that because otherwise it's not done and of all the things I want you to all think about as we go forward when we're looking for the developers that have these things that we need extra connections that we should be looking to go push to to make things happen like this could be better yeah I agree we have to do our part so they're going to connect to a sidewalk and then in front of our property that Miss Pearson is aware of are where we do our feeding Pascal's elderly or whatever or or elderly whatever we have no sidewalk so but it needs to be a trail multi-use and then we'll come back in and figure out the missing piece but we don't have ours in there either so okay all right just call got a motion in a second all those in favor say I I I all oppos like that motion pass 5 Z that ends public comment period we'll move back to uh commissioner items so we were on me and a discussion of live local no we're not going back to that until the end we're going to bring we're going to bring that live local to the last thing okay we I have a few more items then okay um you gosh through y'all saw the um the map the the uh the pump I don't know I did my not um are you gave us that yeah I don't know what happened to my paper okay uh let me ask you a question because I pulled this off from vop uh out of the packets and I'm looking at the um well I have a question and and I hope that when we have our we're going to have a vop workshop one of these days right um this open space map is that where so for for the new ones new bees when we did vop there were supposed to be like a village and then a Green Boundary and then a village and then a green open space boundary then Village and I know we we played with that a little bit but is that what this map represents who can answer that screen what is that map nobody nobody can answer that question what is the question sorry I was looking for our V expert we just cut them loose so the green boundaries between the different villages in vop okay um then I have these future alternative plans uh Maps this one I think there's two of them actually um and it the the red lines on here you guys have these in your books the red lines on here show the multi-purpose paths and multi-purpose Lanes um I am curious why it does not show the multi-purpose path on Clinton and

301 and then the others that I may be missing but I think you're talking about that goes south of Clinton on 301 yeah there's a there's I mean north of Clinton you know the the DAT City Z for Hills 301 Trail it's not shown on here it's right there somewhere we connect there and goes down through uh well we're supposed to but we didn't build it yeah um okay they hadn't finished that connection Mr Galvin so yes what are we talking about I'm so sorry this map do you want it because I have two I'm gonna one has a line through it I'm not sure what that means this one then this one oh yeah soes oh yeah on on this map map on that map with the X through it that's the old map this map you see here if you look at the bottom you can see the additional part that were added but where is the multi-use path on Clinton yeah so that won't show up on these Maps one because they're a little bit older and two it's not in our it's not in the Cy's um discretion I guess when these Maps were made so it wasn't included we can do an update to include those in the future you think that's part of how they got missed from being built by dot because they weren't on this map maybe I'm not 100% sure or vice versa since they you know okay and 301 Trail is already built and it it should be over there I me that was built seven or eight years ago yeah I can't I don't know the background behind that unfortunately um but if they're on the plan and you wanted them to be shown on our vop Maps we can I feel that they need to be on here since we are working to get them built and if they're not on here doesn't that hurt us isn't wouldn't a developer say well it's not in the plan or it's not on the map so hi Brad tip in planing development uh yeah these maps are based on the the elements in the financial plan itself so some of those items are actually accounted for elsewhere the 301 Trail uh was done separately uh not a part of the op so that's why that one's not on here is there a way to put it on here that situation I'm sorry should we put it on here and in in a different color we can mark something as an existing Trail we can do that or well we missed up we U Get get that back to us marked back I think it should be on here in some way and then and then Gavin is this the is this the is this the buffer between villages map no so that's going to be um our core Reserve map that's going to show our protected uh Wetland areas okay well I'd love to see the buffer map yeah the buffer map open space map cuz that's that's what I thought this was this says open space yeah we should have a village separator buffer map I don't know if you printed that one out from yeah I don't think it's in here that's the one I to yeah so I think it's because this came up in in one of my meetings with a an applicant

um I don't remember their the lady's name you might know it commissioner Oakley as a family as a lady on the south side of 52 um I don't remember her name too many meetings where at somewhere here yeah so we still do have our our village separator and Rule Enclave buffers right there and that's the map on ph8 so so it's in here in this packet it should be in that packet correct yeah yeah rural Village separator and that's what it looks like cuz that looks like roads no yeah those are the buffers on on the outside if you see the the the pink is the 150t village separator buffer and then the Orange is the 50ft rule Enclave buffer that they have okay 150 ft that's interesting 15 ft let me ask a question Gavin these buffers between Villages and vph they're not to be changed in any way that buffer stays there no matter what that's uh there's a someone's trying to change it things are happening I know and sometimes I hear something about adding to or taking away or but we need to make sure those buffers stay and that Village has to fit in there yeah absolutely it's up to them to get things in in that Village that's supposed to be there so we don't need to be changing and it all run together we want the villages so yeah absolutely and the only uh exception that I know of is when in a village boundary is located near Wetland or the core reserve the map you showed earlier that all those connected Wetlands we don't require them there because it's already a natural buffer right yeah but yeah I understand that that's good yeah 150 ft is really not much sadly it was bigger but we changed it yeah all right once everything the trees and all grow in m is not in our package that I can find maybe I missed it any other question or any other thing else you have that was it that um and so I think that's that's it for me okay move on to M Marano um can you put the map up for I want to talk about tourist development for a little bit theyve recently done their long range plan you might say the destination development strategy and plan of 20 2024 to 2033 and I think we really need to pay attention to the findings maybe get a presentation in front of us coming up and if you look at the left side of the map there five out of the six areas visited most predominantly were in West Pasco so I just want to say that we should be taking a look as we go further to to find ways to use some TDC money for uh the west side I was going to put this up too but he's coming to us next month I think within good well you're going to be aware of it you may want look at the West Le side over here no I question you have a question for yes okay thank here when y'all were up in Tallahasse I think raler somebody mentioned that the legislature is looking at raiding TDC funds was that part of the fac conversation or I know yall were laser focused but I just

didn't know if you heard any I I think what they were trying to do is to keep the funds from being able to use for other things and keep the fund allocations where they are uh instead of using it for housing for roads Etc to keep the focus just on with with the current TDC availability of funds are right now so you think those funds are secure do I think they're secure I mean anything can change I mean Monro County's going real hard at their issue of trying to get affordable housing um Orange County I think wants more flexibility too so those two are trying to open it up more but I think uh everybody in the tourism industry wants to keep it where it's the money stays more to just generate heads and beds Mr St do you have question well I was just going to say Jack's time so we we had a we had a he's he asked a question we we had a very lengthy discussion fact about about this Monroe county is stating that they had the support of their hospitality industry because they don't have any Workforce housing for the people who work in their hotels and restaurants and they're busting them in from hours away um whether that's we're not waiting into that whether that's true or not but um and every one of our delegation meetings uh we had Adam talking about that we don't want that to happen to us yeah we want to keep ours limitated okay Jack you got any more items yeah a couple more items um I want to say we T we talked ear today with Bill Cronin about the hurricane rum for the Rolling Stones and uh got a letter from uh Spencer and uh he was he's saying hope things are good with you as you remember some time ago we discussed training for the new Machinery which has now been completed the delivery and training took place in two phases due to late delivery of the strap applicator which by the way when we had when I had seen the assembly L going there was like one more thing they had to add but they were waiting for the police to come in uh which had to be modified to work for the crossfire hurricane bottle both training sessions were 3 days long each due to the complexity of the machiner operation competence and with such sophisticated a automation I was glad you were able to present on your previous visit to see the witness of production and the general experience and excitement of such a unique product current exposure for Pasco County surpassed expectations as much more to come uh then he lists off five different people that have taken the training and special activities on the line as well but he's very thankful and again it was a it was a great investment by uh using EDC funds to to go forward so I want to thank you for that and he he's very thankful um there is an issue that's floating out there um I'm not sure how familiar Mike you are with this or or Roy but um or even Denise but we've a a non-conforming signs issue on Embassy Hill Plaza and other shopping plazas where new or existing businesses are prohibited from placing or altering

building Frontage signs because of nonexisting non-conforming poll signs on the parcel Embassy Hills has threatened legal action if a change is not made to the code uh there's a Bells at Point Plaza US 19 and 52 um Hudson's discount grossers at Embassy Plaza in US 19 um there's a I say I say there's a it's written up here as a recommendation to revise 1203.4 Point B1 to exempt the existing shopping plaza along US 19 Corridor to encourage economic Redevelopment and when I say I think we need to bring this back as an issue to go take a look at it um what you have is is a Plaza on us9 that has a poll sign out front inside the plaza there's all sorts of small businesses that are there the one business that wants to come in now to replace another one that's there cannot come in and put a sign up on the building because of the poll sign that's out front it's maybe it's an unintended consequence but I think it's something we need to address um otherwise we probably going to face a lawsuit well can I speak to that um and Denise can you come up um you know we worked hard on the the sign ordinance for years um whose part of its purpose is to kind of clean up the county because there's a lot of ugliness on us19 I'd be happy to show photographs and um and I have worked with all my companies that have to bring have new signs and we have the same situation and they have brought down that Monument sign and they're I mean that old sign and they're putting in the new conforming sign so I don't if you want to address it Denise um Denise Hernandez Planning and Development so I mean I could show you the the actual before and after um the location not not to to go against what you're stating commissioner Mariano the one at 19 and 52 actually came into conformance so that's that's done it's um we worked with them um that's they they now have signs that are actually conforming they were able to put the the Ross and other things that were coming in there that were newer uh tenants um we also have like a lightning speed permitting process for them that we have established so that they are not without a sign for an for a period of time like literally they uh the inspection is has done the exact same day um so we have we have um optimizing all of our correct we've optimized all of our processes and I and this is not me doing it this is actually BCS who's done a fabulous job I do want to give a big shout out to Ronald guo who's doing an amazing job and I'm I'm also we also work very closely with uh with the property owners we meet with them we talk to them um so of course it's to the pleasure of the board but I do want to say that that when we were doing when we were doing our um uh workshops with the board the board asked for that to to happen um because at one point in time there was a a concept of thinking that uh signs could be sunsetted that they have an actual uh time timeline a life uh behind them and uh we have actually also we would actually like to show you um uh

some of the the good things that have come across there have been a lot of the mo the most expensive part of a sign is actually the pole that the sign sits on so a lot of these properties have been able to actually retrofit their existing signs to just put something around the pole to make it an actual Monument sign uh there's many locations including a location over in uh Lando Lakes that have done that and um and and those have been successes we also had the Burger King take the their brand new faces that were up on poles and bring them down and make them be the poles and it so cost them very little and I just drove to Tallahassee and they had some storms come through last week or in the last few weeks and their lollipop that's the standard name for the the yeah most of them were all busted up I mean wait till you see it tomorrow when you get to uh Perry and all in there all their signs are destroyed so let me ask question Jack uh did did they go in and talk to Denise for their well I know they were working on it and this was I was supposed to actually bring this up two weeks ago but we got right right through it so I'm see if they've gone in if they'll come in and they'll work with them yeah and then they need some delighted to CH work it out with them hopefully the other one's going to come along as well but I wanted to again when when someone threatens like that I need to bring it before the board so thank you for the great work I didn't get the update so great work on that yeah again I I really do want to give a shout out to Ronald guo in building construction services he is as far as I'm concerned he's like a rock star yeah and so is Elizabeth Blair who's absolutely fantastic and fabulous and I love working with her and definitely David Goldstein who's I mean worked with us as well through the process so thank you so much and it is making a difference on what our roads look like okay well thank you for uh just um one other item we talked about this item before um there's a as I can best summarize there's a home that's going to be demolished on a property with a new home that's going to be replacing it um and the people wanted to stay in their home until the other one was either built or done um I don't know if we're going to look at that again but maybe we can bring it up the next meeting to see if that's going to be an issue that we want to address I think we had one before where someone was living in a wanted to live in a trailer while their home was being built um I can I'll fold this on the staff look at a little bit closer um I do want to say U I was out at the Wiregrass Ranch we had a a volleyball tournament out there the place was absolutely packed moniker and the team did a phenomenal job um we do we will have to look at parking somewhere down the road parking garage and what have you um some say it may have to be a pay pay for type thing but it's definitely going to be a need because those we have the other Parcels that are coming as well so uh definitely some things are going to be looked at there right that's all I have

sir thank you all right thanks sir Mr cabala oh more thing because I have one more the well it was the um I think you well you may bring it up but I had the I need that letter signed by you to uh be continue on SEC as secretary treasur for the gulf Consortium so I need the board's approval for that move to appr second okay I have a motion in second all those in favor say I I I okay thank you motion pass 4 Z okay Mr cabala thank you Mr chair just a couple of quick things one just a good news item thank you to the board for participating in the Strategic plan and the budgeting Workshop uh last week uh I mentioned there that um we had received an upgrade in our bond ratings and I just want you to know that that uh Bond rating actually monetized is to roughly about $175,000 a year in debt savings for this last trunch of uh of General obligation bonds I'm sorry $176,000 in savings for Debt Service uh in the latest tranch of General obligation bonds that we issued um last board meeting I think or gave us authorization so uh just the effect of bond ratings and and Good Financial stewardship it's it's a good thing so just uh just thank you for that uh the other thing just you should have in front of you or at least hand it out to you your packets for uh the legislative session here inside is your schedule as well as just a number of other other pieces of of information that we felt was was going to be important I know I'll be there I think attorney Stein sneer will be there um and uh you know we look forward to a successful uh successful day in Tallahassee that's all I have okay Mr stste I don't have anything generally for the board okay okay I have something clerk have something yeah she left me a couple things we have a couple of events we have the big shred and that's happening in Newport Richie this weekend it's here at the West Pasco uh judicial center from 10: till noon and then again next Saturday February the 3r in Dade City that is in partnership with Kant shred 360 and keep Pasco beautiful so we'd like to thank Pasco the county for helping us with that also the Valentine's Day wedding ceremony uh coming up on Valentine's Day February the 14th at 11 o'clock that's going to be at the historic courthouse in Dade City we have 25 couples limited to that and the registration deadline is February the 9th that's all I have all you guys want to get married that's the day to do it at the courthouse I expect to see you thank you um okay I have a couple one item I need U I want to recommend Alan Alman step up and take uh the County Citizens member seat on the value adjustment board need a motion I got a motion and second all those in favor say I I great work motion pass 5 I glad to I he left because of uh not being the school board anymore but then I we talked him into it but he was very willing to come back and do that job and he he did a good job

with that when he was on a school board too great job y so I was I was appreciative of him stepping up um commissioner Marana has asked for a letter of support uh for position on the uh G Consortium you took that motion that's motion you just made um that Jack just commissioner Mariano just asked the board approval is oh yeah this is a motion yeah okay so this is uh for Guff Consortium right he wanted a support letter for uh the treasure position with them that's just did it that's what you just did I thought you might be doing I'm sorry oh that's what I just did yeah okay I was doing it so but I have the letter ready but um so we've all voted on it now the letter will be sent right now so it's signed I figured everybody be approval on on that but I had it ready to go into mail soon you just so my assistant's got making sure that's taken care of thank you very much um let me think all right uh I've got something you had one other thing so um well I'm gonna ask Jack about the seaw walls later I guess because I have a question on that um but if you could zoom in to where it says um where the word Army is on Salvation Army okay see that property um the long skinny one right above that Arrow um the gentleman that owns that actually I was talking with him yesterday about his sign it's it's where we had a lot of homeless people living um but no no go back to the um aial other shot he told me he's trying to sell it for a used car lot and I don't this is where's David Engel this is just my frustration when when it's anything goes on here um yeah there it is for redevelopment if we had if we we had the ability like both those Parcels are for sale so if someone had this parcel and the parcel below which was the old Helen Ellis Walkin health health center it's a much more attractive parcel for redevelopment but now I got this one guy who said this piece has been for sale forever and it's going to be a used car lot potentially because they're they have to put in a fire hydrant and I don't know how that works we couldn't figure that out yesterday Brad that's why I was calling you um so I I just as we talk about Redevelopment and what's best for the 19 Corridor I I just wanted to bring this up that I'm I'm frustrated if we got to let this if if we have to let this be a a car a used car dealership so okay I have like 70 of them all around that and they look nasty nasty that's it okay live local okay live local going to go back uh we'll take it off the floor and the table and start and start again because I think there's a lot of con so I think concern left it Commissioners was I kind of went over what we've already done

trying to get the law changed we got lawsuits ready to go we've started conditioning their new resoning so they don't use the tax exemption I guess the real question is what else would you like us to do um assuming those first three things are already in place in some way shape or form um we talked about limiting comp plan amendments for higher density projects we talked about conditioning some site plans if they're requesting relief from neighborhood parks or parking conditioning those approvals I guess we need some guidance on where else you want us to go with live local well I've heard people folks talk about a moratorium or something but always person person I always feel like a moratorium is something you do when you don't have a real answer and I think it probably would be interesting to do here waiting on the right answer for us to go forward so it would help us I think by some time to be able to do the right thing for our citizens out here so how do y'all feel about that what to well IAL moratorium so let me see if we can get where we want without using that word um and David you and I talked about this a little bit that we can and I I I'm curious if it has to be 100% or or just depends on where they're located put certain conditions on any multif family that comes in for example the the 3 Acre you know the one Park per every hundred units one acre Park I mean are there things that we can do to to um get the outcome we want without a moratorium for example I would be okay if someone came in on 19 and want and want to do something and so I would say yes and no um if they're seeking a site plan approval and they're asking for deviations from neighborhood parks or parking yes I think we could condition those alternative standard requests on them not seeking the tax exemption so let's start there where you're going to have some difficulty though is if they're if they already have their site plan approval other words too late can't do anything or they're not seeking any deviations from our Land Development code they're not seeking neighborhood park deviations or parking deviations or they're already built okay so those those three scenarios where they're either already built they already have their site plan approval or they're not seeking any deviations from our Land Development code I think the only thing way we going to catch those projects is probably through litigation um you could in theory do a moratorium but the reason I'm a little concerned about that is then you're going to be doing a moratorium on things that already have site plan approval and you're probably going to catch some projects that you don't want to catch like Saddlebrook I mean there there's going to be some stuff that you've approved um Costco Town Center I mean there's a lot of there's a lot of projects that you have said a lot of good things about even though they have a multif family component to them and I'm a little worried that some of those

may get caught up in that kind of moratorium um you know my personal opinion is I'd like you to start with maybe conditioning the site plan approvals that are asking for some deviation absolutely maybe look at the plan amendments because like I said you have no obligation to be proving complant amendments for higher density projects and I had one of those yesterday it came in right across from Wesley Chapel Park and um Old Pasco Maybe old pass yeah somewhere in there and where I know there's already a lot of Apartments um and he wanted to go to um apartments and strip commercial and I was like I I I said I can't see why I would give you more density one going through this live local stuff and too you know I think we were pretty good there you're right across from a park why don't you do a hotel and some restaurants or something and so I agree with you I think you know I think we can kind of help control this by saying in this area we're not going to give you any extra density for now so for right now that this might be dead mul family David England may have some thoughts about what types of plan amendments you would Target but I believe there's a certain level of density that you need to achieve before you would be multif family um oh for example I'm not sure that it Res three plan res one to Res three plan amendment is going to trigger multif family um obviously the Comm industrial so I don't think we're talking about all anuse amendments but maybe Mr Engel or can comment on if he's got thoughts about which land use amendments you might want to Mr before he comes up Mariana yeah so commissioner starky I met with him right before you did and frankly I was telling the exact same thing didn't want to see the apartment I thought a hotel or two could work yeah I didn't think the access was a big issue they're right off the highway we we we go to events where it's a lot EAS harder to get to a hotel than it is to get to there uh and I said the same thing you go down Wire Grass I mean Old Pasco Road to Wesley Chapel Boulevard you're going to see 7,000 Apartments have just been approved that are all coming in I don't need any more apartments right there what I need is to complement the hospital that's right across the street from the park where I where I actually did we did approve some apartments already too so I don't need to go flood that area anymore it's a two-lane road still it's going to get approved later on but it's going to be a long time before all those things are done why do I want to jam up everybody up there so I was I was I was on the same page you were going with that and that is the property that commissioner M has been talking about for a bit Mr angle good afternoon David Engel economic growth director many of the live local projects that have approached us which is approximately 12 a lot of them have backed off to live local but they want to get a complant Amendment for

apartments and that's seems to be a course of action and a strategy that's been undertaken of late um we don't know what the impact of Liv local is our our zoning our financial management all the things that make uh Pasco sustainable for our roads and our financial and fiscal disposition are may be uprooted significantly by live local so we have a level of uncertainty so um if you were to impose uh no action on plan amendments that's your comp plan land we would recommend that you start from res 6 and higher because those residential future land use areas allow for multif family housing res 3 allows for attached single family homes but not Apartments so that would be outside of the area that we wouldn't entertain comp plant amendments so these are amendments coming in we have a lot of them and uh it allows us to catch our breath and assess the impact of live local how long will it take to address those items well it really it really it really is up to when we can resolve and get clarity on live local it's uh we're in limbo now and just you know to make a point uh commissioner starky and uh the County Administrator were talking during the session this morning and Brad came up and said well there's 30 about 35,000 units uh that we have coming in on the books that's more units than the list that David Goldstein obtained from Tallahassee I mean that could be didn't get that that or or whoever Mr shk okay well well but but the point is our Representatives got that an average apartment project is about 250 to 350 units and if you divide the 35,000 or 36 or 37,000 number Brad used there are well over 140 projects and there's 120 projects on the list up in Tallahassee so the financial impact is uh you know could be significant and almost catastrophic because it defunds a a lot of things um this is a question that I hadn't thought about until just right now so it's it's per unit not per complex you know when you were doing the number so so um you could have an apartment complex that just does Five and you could have one that does a 100 and we just have no idea what's coming to be clear they have to do at least 70 yeah the well no well that one that one is only doing is they're are they doing 26% they're doing 75 oh the smallest have at least they have to do at least 70 okay that was going to be my question okay but again it's 120% of Ami so these 70 are just market rate rents but yes they they're doing at least 70 at that rate and the compounding problem is as some units become vacant over subsequent years the developer project owner may come back for more live local it doesn't there's no prohibition right just depends on who's who who his rent the unit right um and one of the things I find really challenging is that they told us that they could not limit the amount of projects who that apply the state the writer of the bill Jennifer or Jenny when I asked her how many should a can a county you know how can we survive can

we cap can we cap it at a certain number and she said no that would be illegal I why would that be illegal I I well first of all I don't think the whole Act is legal I'll start with that okay but but but putting that aside I I think the legislature could could limit the scope of the exemption um the percentage of units that can come off maybe what she was really trying to say is that if you limit the number you're just going to get a race it's going to result in a race and so um and then you have to decide who gets in you know if you get 80 of them better than unlimited if you if you get a 100 of them that all apply which which which 50 get it and which 50 don't I mean that may be the issue that she's really concerned about yeah but the alternative is everyone gets it well or the alternative is limit the scope of the act so not I mean make it 80% of Ami and then then it's actually a rational reason for how you're doing it because then at least you're limiting it to those that are providing more affordable housing which that was our legislative request yeah um and our organic needs are you know down towards 60% of Ami so well that was going to be my next question are we asking the right thing should we really be asking for 60 so so USF has done a study about our affordable housing needs in the county it's not complete yet but based on the original conversation I had with Marcy we do have some need below 80% of Ami it's not that we have I agree with David engg our bigger need is probably below 60% or 50% of Ami but there's at least a need below 80% of Ami when you get to 80 to 120 we have no need at all we probably have a glut that's what I was told from mercy so so it's it's hard for us to argue that we have no need below 80% of Ami because the USF study shows that we do Mr Marano thank you Mr chairman um I I think we should try to find the way to delay any approvals that we can possibly be allowed to delay uh until sessions over and maybe a Governor's signature so we know where we stand can't they have to apply by March 1st you I want to be clear there's two different issues there's the tax exemption there's the land use okay the tax these are already built so there's no delaying them I mean all only thing I can do with the ones that are already built is Sue them there's not much else I can do I me I I can send them a demand letter and say don't do this and encourage Mike Wells to not issue the exemption but that's other than that other than suing them that's probably our only recourse okay so that's what I think commissioner starky is talking about the ones that are already built the ones that are not yet built for the most part they're not seeking live local anymore because when the board authorizes us to sue anybody that seeks it they all stopped I'm not saying that's going to permanently happen there may be some that decide they want to be the test case but so far

and I've actually actually spoken to some L use attorneys who were who had applied and they said we're not going to mess with Pasco we'll go somewhere else where they want us is basically what they said so I'm not anticipating a flood of live local land use applications currently I think the bigger issue in my opinion is probably the tax exemption yeah agreed because that there's stuff that we already approved or that's already built and those they could seek the tax exemption so you know maybe conditioning some of the site plans that are seeking alternative standards we can try to get some of them that way conditioning the new rezonings there's but there's going to be a batch of them that we already approved or that are already built that we may not have any course recourse other than getting the law changed or lawsuits chairman yes sure thank you chair so mentioned this to carbal earlier so when we look at projects like connected City only entitlements remaining or multif family entitlements so the remaining that audit's not done yet to see what's left so to what Mr Engle you were saying and to what you're saying Mr ging is that entire remaining product line within that project is vulnerable since the since both the family titls are the left they can be built and then they'll they could apply for the T as Class A and then apply for their live local exemption and just downgrade all that project and wreck that project's financial plan well it has the potential of be live local because it's a existing apartment unit that has been built in the last five years they can apply or or anything coming in the future so a rolling so I want to be clear if they haven't rezoned yet I think you can still condition their resoning on them not getting the tax exemption and we have there's like three or four projects that are in the system currently where we've done that very thing the bigger issue is the ones that you've already approved in Connected City that for multif family or theyve already got a s plan approval or that's probably a bigger risk in my opinion so I'm not as concerned about to me the fundamental problem in live locals this whole retroactive thing they did where they basically said stuff that was already built or even before we even knew this was happening they said stuff that was already built or approved gets this tax exemption and so we had no chance to react to it well now we do the stuff that new stuff coming in we could condition on them not getting the tax exemption so I'm a little less concerned about the stuff that hasn't come in yet I'm more concerned about what's already approved or built when it comes to tax exemption now that being said if you think there's a general over supply of apartments and you want to say limit land use amendments or you know do other things I think you have the right to do that Mr chairman I think that is where I was trying to get to is I think that's

something we should do that's the easiest thing to do and and I would just even delay those until session's over or Governor signature when we find out what's really going to happen because the governor may look at and do something different but at least till session's over I think we should be putting a hold on it and and only 30 days Mr chairman 45 days yes and and I wonder if just as a planning exercise we might identify where places maybe have a good member that satisfy the need and place other places where we might say okay this maybe this area doesn't but I will say when I drove up Wesley Chapel Boulevard in Old Pasco Road took kind of took my breath away and now you say there's another one coming up there being constructed 52 Pasco massive so the west side I mean aside from live local do we need to take a look at what we've got on on the books and make some decisions I mean it it seems like we should be careful about what we're a little more thoughtful about what we're approving sometimes well um as a suggestion we have a comp plan that's in process for revision it'll be available within an year so maybe you could tie it to that so Barbara's coming up I don't mind listening come ahead Barbara as well 8627 Grand Boulevard maybe not for the rest of this year if you guys do what you're talking about um but for now 8627 Grand Boulevard Newport Richie 34652 um when you're talking about apartments they're not at Res three they're not at res six they're not at res 9 so don't throw the baby out the bath water you need places for people to live that are coming here if you cut make the cut it anything that's not Res three any complaint Amendment above res three if you throw that out you throw out all the platted Town Homes you're finally getting people to develop platted Town Homes here so you can get more home ownership you finally got your jobs here and now when that person wants to get that you know get into a fee simple they can't get into a town home because you've said you don't want Town Homes anymore so please just be very precise in what you target if it's multif Family Apartments you know those are up in 18s to 24 density the garden Styles but if you could have a discussion about what you're throwing out you know and not just not just take a so town homes go between six and nine they're usually never the nine but we go our comp plan goes from six to 9 so you'll see people go to nine to get seven or eight because most town homes are between six and eight but so if we could just have you just talk about a little bit more and talk about what product you're targeting and not go and where you're going to start affecting things that we do need we do I mean we do want to see ploted Town Homes we want to see Home Ownership um and remember our comp plan is 35 years old so the the the properties that are already Res three or six or nine they're they're gone they've been developed and so you've got we have to change the comp

plan for Town Homes all my town home projects I've changed the comp plan so if you look to say I'm not going to have anything other than a complain amendment to Res three you pretty much have just said we're not going to do any more entitlement work here for I Heard a month you know whatever it is didn't he say res six he started at res he said anything above Res three is what he said no I well I heard him say so just to clarify Miss willhide is speaking about net densities and of course Apartments can occupy 16 to 24 unit an acre sites but res 6 is the gross density in the area but it does allow apartments and on a complant Amendment we we don't really get into the granular aspect of what the project is do it mine exemp right you do it with mine well you can do it with everybody else you know I lead my clients forward um that's what I do but there are no apartments in res 6 it's just doesn't exist what you see in res six to Res 8 we don't have it is Town Homes is what you see in those densities your apartments and I just actually went through this exercise of what goes in where and what's the three story density and what's a four St story density and where are are build to rent densities if that's a product you know another product that's out there so I think you need to look at not numbers but what product and then Target the number but try to figure out what product it seems like and you've had a moratorium on apartments before so it's not not it's not a new discussion but it seems like just be careful with the just saying I don't we don't want anybody bringing forward projects right that's what that's what what that would do and I understand the month I mean a month you know that's just a delay that's not a stop it's not a saying don't don't bother um but because then you can understand what where things are at so that doesn't but it's the really taking things that are anything at going far all the way down your comp plan to say we're not going to allow anybody to come in with a new town home project because that's what you would do if you go that deep so I'd ask you to think about that maybe have your staff come back and don't do anything right now let your staff come back and that a little bit and other people can talk to you about you know what their perspectives are you've got one person here trying to give your perspectives one person that really cares and I do understand I mean commissioner starky has been educating me even more and commissioner waitman all of you about live local and uh you know all of my projects have agreed to okay I mean my project my project wasum theum anlo 60% Emi they agreed to not do this regarding your abor Taxation and it is Affordable project so all of our my are agreed I committed to commissioner Starker today that I'll go back to all my projects that you all worked with to get them entitled and we'll see if we can get them to agree to a deed restriction or something so that they can't do this as

it's sold to somebody else so you know we got people that work here that care and um just don't kill us all right I thought that was interest she's willing to write a letter to all her projects that are have been entitled to see if they will pledge to not go live local well I I think that there's uh maybe another path that's not as Draconian as the original proposal if a plan Amendment comes in uh you can you I I don't think we can we can really get involved in uses unless we modify our comp plan now and our LDC but what we could do is if you want to have a comp plan which is at the discretion of the board you have to sign uh you know some type of document that you won't seek uh adorm tax exemptions or we do that already historically we've done it a resoning we've not we've not historically done it on a comp can we do that in the plan let's do that how it goes and you know if we need to come back we can come back and do something else I'm thinking we need to put our heads together and you know come bring us something back as soon as possible maybe to the next meeting in dat City or that's like two weeks so yeah so I I get that you want us to bring something back on the comp plan what about the issue of theplan approvals and conditioning those that are seeking like a neighborhood park Varian I would look at all that as do you want us to be part of that same thing that we bring back yes sir I think that' be good bring all that back I would well I don't if you have any between now and then we want you to condition them we don't want any slipping through in the next two well is is there a chance for that they have to go to the Planning Commission first no these most these alternative standards we're talking about are administratively approved by staff okay well we want those conditions guys right we don't want any more that can go to live Lo correct all right those are condition Parks you get the parks and the parking parent consensus that on the conditioning of site plans that are seeking some deviation from our code that you want to go put the live local restriction on those starting today or they get a an AC or park for every hundred units and well again I'm talking about they're seeking some deviation from our Land Development code yeah right yeah okay and bring that back to us in next meeting well actually I I we we intend just to go ahead and do that now I mean do that do what you can do now and then bring back to us what we voting on or whatever I I have one more point that we need to discuss that um someone brought up to me and that was and I haven't heard this one yet but and I don't know what the rules are but apparently you can convert a mobile home park to live local so or you can buy commercial property and put mobile homes on it and become liveed local so what is that threshold so I don't know that that would be considered multif family I mean we I was told that mobile homes count okay we don't consider mobile homes to

be multif family this was a land use attorney a very good one so let's make sure that there's not a consequence that we're not familiar with I'm happy to look into it more but this this entire thing was oriented towards multif family I think town homes have a better argument under our code than the trailer park but I'll look into it okay M chairman just so I I heard as well that golf courses are considered commercial and be could be converted as well yeah they're being attacked now so we got we depends on what the local jurisdiction has designated their okay their golf courses if they've designated them as commercial then then that then yes I mean it it all is going to link back to what you've got your them zoned as so what if it's zoned mpud so there's an ongoing issue which the legislature has still not fixed about whether muds or puds even whether Li local even applies to those so there are some jurisdictions taking the position that it doesn't even apply to a PUD or mpud because that's notal okay so I I think plan city is dealing with this right now I I don't know what the outcome of it was but you could take the position that it only applies to ukian C2 C1 i1 I2 zoning districts but the law is unclear and this is one of the reasons for our lawsuit is that the law is so unclear we can't even we can't apply it yeah uh on land use was just it was asked we didn't get answered can a land use put those extra conditions on like we do with the the zoning about live local so this is not one I've discussed with jeoff but I mean we've we've only historically done it on rezonings I can't think of a reason why somebody couldn't voluntarily derestrict their property at comp plan unless think you think of anything no I mean these are voluntary probably could all you might be able to do a sub area policy as well although what was your question Jack I didn't understand can we keep some land use Amendment from going to live local like we do with z a land use Amendment coming forward to keep it from being able to go live local I thought you said you could zonings we could we're just talking about we've not historically done it but I think I think you could okay I think we should definitely take that approach immediately yeah you I've got a lot of work to do between now next meeting um Mr chairman i' like to make a comment to to what Barbara said you know I think in all this with all the apartments we've seen that are coming up and all the information we've now got we definitely have a glut coming up which could could be devastating for us if uh these things come forward I'm okay with the town home product I always have been I mean if people have a chance to own their own property I think it's a good thing all of a sudden these 40s don't seem that bad compared to what we're looking at for apartments either so um I think that you know I don't want to cut

out the town home product so if staff wants to take a look at that make it bring us suggestion back how we handle it I'm okay with that too I'm just not okay so what I'm hearing to maybe get a motion um is you want us to immediately start imposing conditions a no live local tax exemption on any site plan approval that is seeking some alternative standard from Orlando Alo that you want to start today yes yes yesterday and bring back some proposal to tackle some type of complant amendments that are changing to allow multif Family Apartments so move second already got a motion second in addition to the other disc discuss discussion discussion so back to commissioner Marano's point and stakeholders point the the time so do we what kind of time do we need do we truly need to get this right and be patient use the remaining time that we have in the legislative session to cool that way this decisions are made thoughtfully and clearly and then once we understand what happens with session and we can control we control then we kind of get back to business as normal or do we take a step forward and not go the moratorium way but just we're not doing a Mor no that's what I'm saying but we just don't they're going to bring that back to us in two weeks so we're only going to wait two weeks how much I'm asking staff what that's not very long so so that's a David Engle question or Brad or whoever's here I I don't know how long they need to formulate a proposal to on the plan Amendment side okay and I want to are you wait does are you asking David to answer that or you just said just give him time why don't we see where we're at with two weeks and then we I had a question kind of I got a feeling it'll be an iterative approach anyway um David um you had mentioned to me that with the two that David um but it can be both of you um David and David David and David uh that you were prepared to um serve or whatever the word is the two ones it's the carriage and the tap and tapestry tapestry and gallery yeah tapestry and gallery I'm prepared to send them a demand letter first okay the demand letter basically says if you continue with this tax exemption we're going to sue you okay so what happens if they go ahead and apply to Mike how how does is there a timeline for Mike to have to reply their deadline to apply for I know theirs is March 1st but is there a deadline for Mike to reply um I guess it depends on when he has to finalize the his exemptions this is not my area can that take a year can that take a mon for it to be for fiscal year 25 there's probably some date by which he has to maybe one of our budget people know about whatever the date is that it's the same as any other exemption like a exemptions all the other exemptions that he issue right probably is some deadline by which he has to issue it so based on kind of what maybe you were kind of saying is there a political advantage to not serve the demand letter um until session is over

and and and so when is session over March January February it's got be in March somewhere uh is Ralph here Ralph when when is uh session over March 4th um and so so are we still in a good legal position we're that time when he only concern is I do want I would do want this letter out before Mike Wells issues his determination because there's a chance he may read this letter in the lawsuit and say I can't issue this so so I don't know whether he will or won't but but he should at least be issuing it with the knowledge that Pasco County has a problem with it I'm just thinking strategically and I guess I need a lobbyist to tell me this um is it better to issue our demand letter while the legislator's in session and maybe they say whoops we might have an issue or is it better to wait till it's over and then and then we can't fix anything we have to wait a whole year Mr chairman well I can tell you what Shawn told me but then Ralph may want to add to it okay what Shan told me is that we should know this week or when the next version of the bill comes out whether they're address exing our concerns or not um he told me he doesn't have an issue with us sending the demand letter if if the next bill comes out and it does not address our concerns he thinks it's probably very little chance that we're going to get it changed this session that we should go ahead and send the demand letter but Ralph may have other thoughts okay Ralph so Ralph Flair intergovermental Affairs officer so what he's referring to when he says when the bill comes out uh as you know when the bill was scheduled to be heard in the Senate last week in fiscal policy they immediately tped it um the discussion is is they're currently working on an amendment once we see that Amendment then we'll have a better idea how much further they want to change other than the uh issues the removing industrial and a couple other issues that they did in its first committee stop and now it's a a committee substitute so once we see that um hopefully it'll be um maybe the end of this week uh beginning of next week um but this week uh fiscal policy in the Senate was slated on the calendar for Wednesday morning at 8:30 and they are not meeting um this week so we know this week it's not happening they're in session at the end of the week Thursday and Friday so um it could come up uh you know the end of this week an amendment will pop up and once we see that Amendment it'll probably be then immediately uh scheduled uh for the next next meeting date which will be the next week on Wednesday probably Wednesday morning at 8:30 Mr chairman yes so I want you to think let's let's think this through a little bit they know we're up there last week right we meet with our whole entire C commiss Stark and I meet with a whole entire delegation we go through the all all but just because we had steal so much make right but but we're we're set to meet most of the delegation anyway but we did meet with Senate President pasido and we didn't

get a good response while we were there as we leave we say the next day we're going to where they going to have have the he the hearing on it we're hearing words that may get stronger we don't know we don't think we've made a difference Etc as commissioner Stark are waiting in the audience for the first part of of the hearing to be held they TP it immediately that never happens up there from what I'm told not you don't TP a senate president's bill so they know we're coming up here this week with Hillsboro and pelis right now they're going to hear it on Wednesday and they're going to postpone it again no no it's not scheduled but no they were supposed to meet Wednesday he just said it 8:30 we're supposed to meet and now they changed it they know we're going to be up there they don't want us in front of it so I'm going to say if you get that demand letter ready I'd say fire it away agree agree let me be clear I'm willing to do whatever the board directs me to do but I want to be clear that last time we the Senate President heard about the threat of litigation she did call up Shawn and yell at him um that was the reason the only reason I was trying to wait until Shawn gave me the go ahead I didn't want him to get yelled at Again by the Senate President but I again I I will send these letters they're ready to go I mean I just got to sign them I'll send them whenever the board directs me to well our Our obligation but I will I'll warn you the second I send these letters the whole world will see them that's fine but Our obligation there's no there's no holding back once I pull that trigger can I say that Senator pasido and um representative uh the one from Miami who's the house sponsor all saw this in an article somewhere two different places about the 16 deputies or the 14 deputies and the 16 teachers that the two ones would defund uh we so we're getting pressed I mean our our board and I think we're doing a great job of this we have an we can't we can control we control we're elected to protect our businesses our taxpayers vested interest in this County and if I'm I'm for sh you know filing the letter as soon as it's absolutely necessary and not hold back and we hold the line and we we protect Pasco County that's why we're in these chairs and I feel that's what we're obligated to do and I think we're doing a fantastic job working as a team doing that so I just want to double down on commissioner Marano's Mr do is it better for us to put that letter out now or wait that two weeks and then put that letter out so if you're asking for my advice I don't think we're prejudiced in any way if I wait a week or two I mean I got to get it if we get into mid-February and I haven't sent it then I'm starting to potentially get prejudiced okay but I don't think I'm prejudiced in any way for the next week or two so I would like to wait until the next version of the bill comes out at least to see because yeah we've made our

concerns very clear they've now had this would be their second chance to address our concerns they didn't do it the first time right I even gave them proposed language that would address our concerns which they did not include if they don't and I think somebody told me I don't know if it was Sean or maybe commissioner starky that some of our legislators I think it was Danny Burgis went to Senate president's office and they were told by Jennifer that the next version will address pasco's concerns or something to that effect well that was the Industrial well I don't know if that's what they meant I don't oh well I I don't know about this then that would we made it very clear that the just the moving industrial doesn't solve our concern okay well maybe we made some Headway so so I would like two weeks won't hurt my only concern is if they are really trying to address our concerns and I realize that's a remote chance I don't really want to make the Senate President mad by sending this letter so my preference would be to at least wait till this next version comes out okay if it comes out still does not address our concerns I'm happy to send the letter at that point and that'll come along with in two weeks we'll know something uh I don't know if that version will come out supposedly this bill was on a fast truck at one point so it's a little yeah interesting that it's now slowing down but I suspect in the next two weeks we will know what this bill will say Ralph do you think that's okay yeah okay it was fascinating that we were up there we got um you made us those talking points for us to hand out to the fat the other counties there at fact on the the morning before we all went up to the hill this was not on one County's radar and um we didn't have the list yet but you know Jack and I put out as many as we could I heard from Maran County and a few other counties like oh you know maybe this is something we should be paying attention to Jack tried to get up and speak to the fat group and the and they wouldn't let him speak to it right they pushed where another speaker was there and they kind of rushed them off and then they was going to get a chance later on and then when the president pushed the gavel down at 9:15 in the morning that we're done yeah U we were supposed to be there till till 10: yeah um also can I just add to that point because Sean has told us that part of our ISS issue with legislative changes is that fac keeps sustaining there in support of the bill and League of cities do I well they didn't stand up at the first committee meeting fac stood up before I spoke and said they were fine with the bill as is and now they have the list and now the story is starting to change I believe I'll have to go back with ginger but after we got when we got out of the um when they tpd the bill and we left the room there was the um I don't know what the term is the public relations guy or the the public policy guy for League of cities had been in the room and he came in our huddle uh I don't think you were there at the

beginning I think you were talking to someone no idea about the adval arm hit that's coming and this is the public policy guy for League of cities and and I you know his face was draining when we said this is the potential I and when they when when we got the number of 120 I couldn't believe it I said I am you know I was standing there when joerger asked the question of fa hfc and he wrote down 120 and I said no no you need to be sure and ask them just the current apartments that are flipping what is that number because uh that that all those counties and cities had no idea what was coming we were the only ones that knew we had two we don't find anybody who ever asked right right so here's here's what you know you're hitting on some really good points and by the way commissioner star did make a great move up there asking about getting that list from H if a fhsc and were representer yeah representer Sean had a great idea get representative Mega Jer to make the call he made the call we had it and that helped us a bit so uh great work on that but I think it's it's important that we really take a look at this these two apartments if they come in and they get approved right I don't care if they're 80% Ami if they took every single apartment and brought them down to that number that would still devastate us that's what I'm worried about with the 80% number so whether they take care of the commercial part later on where they go to 80% MSI uh Ami this is still going to hurt us yeah so as far as this aspect of it we're not talking about even new stuff we're talking about existing stuff I think we should just fire the thing off and send it anyway because no matter what happens we got to stop this one I I yeah and and just so everyone understands it it's very complicated if you're if you go if a unit goes in at 120 Ami they get a 75% reduction if they go in at a 80% Ami it's 100% tax abatement is that the right word it is um a tax exemption but tax exemption but I will tell you if you look at that list and you study it closely I would say you're probably 90% of the ones that are trying to qualify are doing at 120% of Ami right so I agree with you commissioner Mariana that 80% of Ami still hurts us from a tax perspective however I think it's unlikely that most Department complexes will try to do it at 80% of Ami and that list is a perfect example of why they get a bigger tax break if they go to 80% of Mii but most of them are not doing it well that's because they all are looking at contracts that's the issue 120% of Mii they don't have to reduce their rents at all and David they they didn't go out and shop for people who couldn't afford it though this first year I bet they just looked at what tenants do we have here's their salaries as stated when they applied to live here and here's what qualifies okay we can take 26% off this year let's see what we get next year because if you look at some of those some of them have eight say eight units at 80% and some and then 50 units

I mean they I just believe everybody just went buy the current contracts that are in their apartments right now I tend to agree with you that's what they did and the only reason they didn't include them all is because or using the units that aren't ready Ed yet and then they got a the the only reason they didn't include them all is cu they probably have people in their apartment complex that are making more than 120% of Ami and they didn't want to kick them out he makes a good point maybe they're the the some of the ones that aren't even rented yet those are going in at 80 I mean what does it say there's a if you read it it says they can stay empty for six months or eight months and still not pay a tax that's accurate there's something on there that says they just have to hold it for somebody for that income range so let me Mr chairman but if they don't come in so Flo another idea we we when we had this discussion before it got the attention of the sen Senate President the representative that's doing the house bill it got a lot of attention and I I really think this could just break this County financially big time and if we do send the demand letter out it's only to those two companies those two apartments right it's not attacking anybody else not attacking the legislature it's attacking what's going to happen to us if we do that if nothing else it maybe it draws more attention to all the other counties and cities to say you know what they must be pretty serious about this to miss send that letter out and then we get and that may that get more support which is what we need all right now I might be with you again I will do whatever the board directs me to do the letter and complaints are ready to go whenever you if you tell me to the only reason they been sent yet is for the reason I said which is I was doing it for out of respect for Shan but if the board says send them I'll send them I think we can afford the risk I'll make a motion that we send all the demand Letters Out second tomorrow while I'm want to be clear I'm going to be in tassey tomorrow maybe can I can this wait till Thursday can wait till Thursday yeah wait till Thursday afternoon still like to wait that two weeks but well the advantage of waiting till Thursday is if we're up there tomorrow maybe we can get an idea get a better idea better idea whether any changes have been made okay wait one day I'm good for Thursday Thursday like have them ready to be email whatever Thursday being send certified mail to a lot of people soay I think you should also like email them certifi my husband won't get pick up his we're going vote we need to make that motion to where in Thursday but within agreeance that uh Mr cabal reaches out to each board member to get their vote toward sending that on Thursday based on what we hear up there so because we're not going to be back together for the to the next two weeks so Mr County attorney than well I'm not going to put the administrator in the position of

polling the board um we have the authority you've already given it to us to send these out I would leave it at the county attorney's discretion to send it out based on by week's end okay based on what we all hear while we're up there I'll modify my motion to those comments okay I'm good with that I'll second second to modify a motion in a second and uh all those in favor say I I motion pass 4 Z earlier that was yes so that I think the earlier motion was also to deal with the conditioning the site plans that are seeking some deviation from our Cod I think that's what you going to bring back to two weeks but you one of those you wanted us to do immediately which was to start conditioning the site plans that were seeking Land Development code deviations on not doing live local tax exemption is that I think May been the motion you're referring to so David restate the motion for us so the motion would be for staff to immediately start conditioning any site plan approval that and resoning that for a multif family project that is seeking some deviation from the Land Development code including neighborhood parks parking Etc in addition to bring back a recommendation on which compreh the plan amendments to either put on hold or delay right to deal with the local that is my motion thank you okay so I got a motion second and a second I will not repeat it all those in favor say I I motion pass 4 Z okay that's all I have good I know it's not 6 o' most we're adjourn [Music]