05.09.2023 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Meeting (Afternoon Session)

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Road and West of Curley Road and providing traditional text amendments as necessary for internal consistency providing for repeated survivability in an effective date and this is a continuance requested to a date uncertain you have a motion to continue time for a Time uncertain all the fair say aye item p58 we have proof publication in the hearing of this matter in the Tampa Bay Times editions of March 15 2023 and May 3rd 2023. item p-58 is an ordinance amending the Pasco County company it's a plan providing for large-scale comprehensive plan Amendment amending future land use map 2-15 and Sheet 5 from res 3 residential three dwellings for grossacre and EC employment center to Il industrial Light on approximately 299.75 Acres of real property located west of the Suncoast Parkway along Soft Wind Lane approximately one and a half miles north of State Road 52 and providing for additional tax amendments as necessary for internal consistency providing for repeal or civilian effective date and this is a request to continue to the May 23rd 40 County Commissioners meeting in New Port Richey at 1 30 pm okay we have a motion to continue p58 Sumo second all in favor say aye aye aye okay and then we'll go to item number p59 we have proof uh yes sir we approved publication of the hearing of this matter in the March 26th edition of the Tampa Bay Times and by Affidavit of certified mail labs and postings at the site okay I'll go ahead and read the record um p59 inordinates amending the Paso County comprehensive plan providing for us a small scale comprehensive fundament to the Future land use map map 2-15 and sheet23 from res 1 residential one dwelling unit Progressive to con commercial on approximately 2.11 Acres of real property located on northeast corner of Paul Buckman Highway and Jerry Road and providing for additional text amendments as necessary for internal consistency providing for repeal or silverability and an effective date and I have staff here present to make the presentation good afternoon Robert Irving with planning and development so this is item PDD 230215 cpas2232 terramore Buckman Highway commercial and this is an ordinance amending the Pasco County conference a plan provocative so the property is located in the East Market areas you can see it's kind of like the Southeastern most quadrant in the county The Proposal is a small scale comprehensive plan amendment to change the future land use designation from res1 to come on approximately 2.11 Acres and it's located at the Northeast Paul Buckman Highway and Jerry Road

the resolution is to amend the future land use map 2-15 issue 23. and there is a company rezoning in the name of free zoning petition number rz7693 Buckman highway to rezone from AR agricultural residential district to C2 General commercial thank you here's the general project location the existing future land use is all res one to the North East and West into the South it's IL here's the proposed future Landers in common here's the existing zoning which is currently AR th it's also AR to the north and east and AC to the West um Institute in the south um I think it's important to note with this project that this Project's directly abutting property owned through the county through the environmental land Acquisitions Management program and in speaking with people from natural resources this is going to serve as a preserve it'll never be developed commercially so this uh proposal will not proliferate or cause any strip commercial from here these are the following policies that conference plan amendment is consistent with policy flew 1.6.4 neighborhood commercial policy include 1.8.7 Economic Development policy flu 1.8.10 preservation of capacity for employment generating uses policy flu 1.6.3 chances in the land uses and policy flu 8.1.4 East Market area and this comes with recommendation that the Border County Commissioners find the proposed amendment consistent with the conference plan and adopt by roll call vote are available if you have any questions okay any questions for staff okay thank you this is a public hearing is anyone in the audience here to speak to item p59 the only person signed up I believe is the representative applicant representative okay anyone on thecube okay um with the closed public comment then it's a pleasure of the board move approval second and a roll call home commission or district one commissioner Oakley aye District Two commissioner Wakeman aye Mr three commissioner Starkey aye District Five uh chairman Mariana aye then item p60 we have proof we have proof publication in the March 1st 2023 edition of the Tampa Bay Times thank you Mr chairman I didn't p60 yeah okay um the applicant is requesting if 10 minutes the board would like to hear this item when the MPD is heard together however put one of them together at the same

time yeah okay so what's what's that item p60 what is related to uh p68 okay so we'll hit the P6 here we'll do them all together okay all right let's hold on that one and that would complete your ordinances you're gonna have to take separate action and you're going to have to allow the public time to speak on both you can take them together if you wish but with those caveats and they have to be sworn in for p68 yep we'll roll them out now let's share them up let's let's hear them now I would take up 60 and then immediately follow it with its companion reasoning okay okay so p60 first he's 60 first okay p60 is an ordinance amending the Pasco County comprehensive plan providing for a small scale comprehensive plan Amendment to the Future land use map 2-15 and sheet 15. from res one residential one blowing unit for grossaker to Res 9 residential nine dwelling unitsaker on approximately 20.2 Acres of real property located at the southeast intersection of Hancock Road and Jesse Daniels Drive within the village villages in Pasadena Hills and providing for additional text amendments as necessary for internal consistency providing for repeal observability and an effective date and we have staff to make the presentation foreign good afternoon Amy heiler with long range planning today you're going to hear the adoption hearing for hand part 20 being item PDD 23-0234 which is a small scale comprehensive plan Amendment we can skip through this because Terry just read it into record so the site property is located in the Central Market area and it's also located within the unentitled area of the Villages of Pasadena Hills this is your existing future land use reflecting a res one and your proposed future land use of res-9 your existing zoning right now is AC and this is the location map showing where it is uh generally in vicinity of The Villages of Pasadena Hills as you can see this is located within the unentitled area of your pH it's just a closer visual for you uh figure pH 6 is the future land use that was established or adopted within the village of Pasadena Hills again as you can see when this was created it was a current existing res one feature land use and I zoomed in so you can see and The Villages of Pasadena Hills and figure PH2 created a vision plan land use Vision plan the reason why this is important is can you go to the next slide thank you as you can see you can see a little bit that coloration of this area is a lot is a mixture of a light yellow and a darker yellow basically what that means is the Villages of Pasadena Hills land use Vision plan envisioned this area to be considered neighborhood General and neighborhood Edge So within the vo pH plan

neighborhood Edge allows for approximately five dwelling units per gross acre and the neighborhood Village or a neighborhood Edge I'm sorry neighborhood generals five dwelling units neighborhood Edge is approximately two dwelling units so even though the existing future Lane uses a res one the vision for villages of Pasadena Hills envisioned it to be a bit more intense or dense than the existing future land use side and it's also important to know that this area is located adjacent uh to hancart road which within the Villages of Pasadena Hills is envisioned as a four-lane roadway thank you so with that being said these are the following policies that are consistent with the proposed amendment policy flew 6.1.1 Pasadena Hills planning a policy planning principles 6.1.2 Pasadena Hills Vision plan graphic and 6.4.2 context sensitive design and with that we recommend approval of the proposed comprehensive plan and adopt the ordinance by roll call though I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have any questions for staff no okay let's hear from the applicant good afternoon Barbara Wilhite 6327 Grand Boulevard Newport Richie 34652 is through having third parties signed up or on WebEx Mr clerk none in fact we do not have any WebEx signed up okay um well I had requested tenants for each of these but I really don't want to go on it's it's really Christy barrero from height who's the presenter but we have one presentation for both I understand they got to take them separately but so we don't go on for 10 minutes on each item we're going to try to do 10 minutes to present everything to you and if there's additional questions we'll get to the MPD item we can certainly talk about that that's kind of how I thought it makes sense to order if that's okay with the board and so yeah the first presentation makes comprehensive as you can and then we'll MPD information in the comp plan thank you very much if that's the question our team is very lucky to have Christie barrero of height one of the architects of this the oph plan on our team and she's going to present to you thank you good afternoon Christie barrero with high design and we always think it's helpful to include some information about the mpud with the comp plan because it gives you a little bit more detail a little better understanding of why we want to change the future we can use and I believe staff's pulling up my presentation perfect so the property is two Parcels 210 acre Parcels for 20 acres total uh we wanted to start off by letting you know we're requesting 144 town homes and that 7.2 dwelling units per acre so to get to that 144 Townhomes we're requesting a comprehensive plan Amendment from residential one to Res 9 which Amy just talked to you about and that request was unanimous unanimously recommended for approval by the planning and policy committee and the LPA the

last couple of months and then we're also requesting a companion zoning from AC to mpud the vo pH planning and policy committee also heard that item and they recommended unanimous approval of that as well so Amy went over a little bit of the history of voph just to get you oriented we are just South of village J so we are outside of the 13 Villages we're also outside of the countryside area outside of any rural enclaves um but we are in between two excluded properties those are the areas in gray that are shown on the screen here those are mpds that were approved before bmph area plan was approved in 2008 so that includes water grass Oak Creek and Chapel Creek so there's a very narrow area between water grass and Chapel Creek that did not have an approved zoning and this property is in that area that's one of the reasons the property wasn't included in one of the 13 Villages you can see that Village J is just to the north of it as well as Village G D and C which are all type 2A or type 1 Villages so those are the most dense and intense Village types in Pasadena Hills with very limited neighborhood Edge which is the two units per acre so the higher density of five units per acre and the 10 units per acre in the general and the core would most likely be along the four-lane handcart Road or any of the East-West roads that are bisecting these villages here you can see the master roadway plan as Amy mentioned hand cart road is shown in blue here it's planned to be a four-lane divided Road in the future overpass road is shown in Orange that will be a six Lane divided Road in the future into the south of us Zephyrhills bypass will also be an East West Road that will be four lane divided so this is a graphic of what hand cart as well as upper Hill's bypass will look like in the future again four lanes with a 12 foot multi-use path on one side and an 18 foot multi-use path on the other side the plan is with the 18-foot multi-use path would go on the east side of the road decide that our property is on on the east side is a Hundred Acre property that the school board currently owns that has not been built on yet as well as a 300 acre super park farther to the north just to zoom in a little bit to see our project again the red star in addition to hand cart overpass and Zephyrhills bypass we also have two purple roads one is just to the east of the property that's a north-south road and then one is to the north of us it's an East-West road that East-West Road will be an extension of Old Bridge Road that's currently constructed and ends at hand cart today the plan is it for is for it to continue east of hand cart and farther west through view pH as a parallel reliever to overpass Road so there is a good roadway Network surrounding this property even though it's not in a village this area was planned for future development and this is what those purple roads are

going to look like it's two lanes two 11 foot travel lanes for vehicles as well as six foot multi-use Lanes on either side and eight foot multi-use paths on either side so again lots of Roads lots of development that will be occurring in this area in the future and then again to orient you to the site this is on the right hand side the existing zoning designations you see a lot of yellow which is the mpuds to the south of our site you see some pink colors which is commercial that's 80 acres of C2 commercial at the intersection of hand cart and Island this will also be the intersection of the future Zephyr Hills bypass that will be a major intersection just less than a mile south of us and less than a mile north of us will be the intersection of overpass and hancart road which will be the village core of Village J so that will also have non-residential development again with that multi-use path on our side of the road it'll be easy access for our residents to get to any retail uses and then we want to go into a little bit of detail about the zoning plan this is our plan here again 20 acres there is a wetland that bisects the property we are showing a 15 foot perimeter buffer surrounding the property it'll be a type B buffer on the North East and Southern sides and then a 15 foot type D buffer adjacent to hand cart Road we're also dedicating 21 feet of right-of-way for the future expansion of hand cart Road we're showing connect the main entrance point will be on the Northern property line at Jesse Daniels Road currently there's a 20-foot right of way easement there we'll be expanding that road to Art and entrance point and then we're showing access to the east and south and the secondary emergency access farther south on Hancock Road so just to quickly summarize a requesting residential nine future land use on 20 acres with a companion mpud for 144 town homes so again that mpud will cap the number of units at 144 capping the density at 7.2 units per acre we did receive a recommendation of approval from the last two boards and we feel that higher density is appropriate on hand cart because it will be adjacent to the Future four-lane divided road with multi-purpose paths it is also handcart also has the type 1 and type 2A Villages just north of here and there's support retail less than a mile in either direction or there is plan to have support retail additionally this is one of the few places in Pasadena Hills where there currently is water and sewer it is on the west side of Hancock Road adjacent to our property we feel the town homes are compatible to the surrounding development that has been approved as well as constructed and we will be paying vo pH development surcharges so in addition to the county standard mobility and impact fees we'll also be paying the required bopa surcharges and that includes almost a

million dollars in Mobility fees which will go to paying for these roads that are planned and shown in the master roadway so I'm happy to answer any questions you have at this time or we can wait till staff gives their presentation on the zoning any questions I don't have any questions but we have public don't speak or nobody signed it um I'll check on that but let's does anyone have any questions first my questions are I'm okay with this zoning just you know reloaded front loaded and all this kind of things any questions okay let me call for public comment anyone here from the public to speak to p60 anyone on cue no sir okay pleasure the board you want to vote on this amendment now we do any of the impute you first and call the roll district one commissioner Oakley aye District Two commissioner working aye District three commissioner Starkey aye District Five chairman Mariana aye motion passes 5-0 okay now we're going to move to swearing in and on yeah first sure there are two resounding agendas regular and consent staff will present each application to the board of County Commissioners and staff for Planning Commission has recommended approval and there's no opposition the application will be considered by the board without further presentation if staff or Planning Commission has recommended denial or if there is opposition to the application the applicant will be given five minutes for presentation the opposition will be given three minutes for each individual or five minutes for a group representative and the applicant will be given three minutes for rebuttal any individual disagreeing with Stanford Planning Commission recommendation or anyone wishing to object to any condition of the rezoning May at this time request that a petition be pulled from the consent agenda in which case that application will be heard under the regular agenda later on during the meeting otherwise I'll rezoning applications on the consent agenda will be approved by a single motion and vote if you wish to speak to any petition please give your name and address in whether or not you have been scorned these are quasi-judicial public hearings the law in Florida is that near public support or opposition of an application is insufficient for this board to take action please limit your comments to those criteria found within the board's Land Development code Mr clerk do you want to swear them in at this time anyone who is intending on presenting information on these items please rise any public speaking that's going to happen as well if you intend on all the resigning agendas on the agenda if you intend or think you might please stand please raise your right hand do you swear affirm the testimony you

will give is the truth so help you God and when you come forward at the to make a presentation please acknowledge that you have accepted this oath thank you okay pleasurable you want to go right to p68 yeah okay 368. we have proof of publication of this item in the March 1st 2023 edition of the Tampa Bay Times thank you Mr chairman item p68 is known as hand car 20 it's PDD 23 7682 handcar 20 Villages of Pasadena Hills and PUD Timothy and Stacy polsky a rezoning request from AC agricultural District to MPD master plan Union development to allow for a maximum of 144 dwelling units on approximately 28 years as we noted previously in the prior presentations it is located in The Villages of Pasadena Hills north and west of Zephyrhills designated by the red stars here it is located within the Pasadena Hills area plan boundary which is located in the South along pan card 20 it's south of the intersection of Old Bridge and encore here are the two Parcels that you just heard about in the comprehensive plan Amendment case at encart and Jesse Daniels Drive and here is the subject property in terms of its existing zoning with AC and it'll be rezoned to mpud as was noted and here's again the the parcel as it relates to certain um future land uses and as it was mentioned in the previous presentations this is a a zoning that will cap the density to approximately 7.2 driving units per acre which is just two dwelling units more than what the Villages of pestinian Hills Vision time was looking for the area I've already mentioned what the project is this is the master plan to the master plan unit development zoning District too much into it but you can see the numerous interconnections that are proposed to this site with the emergency access point located south on Hancock here and the main Access Point located here of just dens sorry I didn't realize that was an emergency access can you go back to that how many units are going in here 144 maximum so um why wouldn't we just have two is this gated uh I'm not certain if it's gated but no it's not being gated uh the new the number of connections are proposed it's going to have the necessary stub outs to the north east and south to enable the network that would be looking forward this is one of the first projects in the area that it was emergency access only on the south I don't understand why we would limit that to emergency when it's all the same neighborhood it's on the same road yeah well I think it has to do with

it we'll change it okay you're gonna have to put a road there I mean why not make it the folks living there yeah but one thing to recall from the previous presentations that there are a lot of Vision roads that are crisscrossing this area and so by providing interconnections on the north east and south you are enabling a future network to plug into those well yeah that's why I don't even know if you needed that other one but if you're going to have another one why would it have been sale that's kind of right I have other questions but I'll wait till you're done in terms of there are some variations that are requested um miners will they be with the hand car hand car 20 and PUD this one section 8056 presidential partials under single ownership they're not plotted as separate lots to be exempt from included in HOA or CDD mainly because there's usually HOAs or property owner groups that are associated with it um and then in terms of section 9071e it's to reduce on-site parking ratio for multi-family to a minimum of 1.9 spaces per unit which is a typical reduction often issued to townhouse projects and other multi-pin if I could stop you there yeah I'm not comfortable with reducing this okay I don't I never heard this in my presentation either why why would people not be required to be in the HOA is that what you're is that what that's saying if it's not planned so if it is planted so most townhouse projects that are be simple projects that do get planted and they are in a choice so in other words if if all of the units are in one common ownership basically Navy rental yeah I I don't know what your presentations you heard but I was unaware I was going to be I didn't hear that Community either I didn't I thought it was gonna be a fee simple and again back to section two which I was going to talk about I'm not comfortable with shrinking down the parking spots either oh those questions are probably good for the applicant yeah except I just I want to understand length of driveways and I want one parking on the front lawn anymore and now let's let's continue on let you finish yeah well that's a variation that's being requested in terms of the analysis uh the planning department is willing to allow the parcel of the owner to act as a responsible party funding maintenance for activities that normally would be the duty of the homeowners association or in Community Development District in an unplated scenario and then 907 1.8 the reduced parking ratio will decrease the area of asphalt which would reduce heat island and impervious surfaces

improving storm water management it's a type of best practice to reduce parking when it's not necessary And this parking ratio is above the 85th percentile Peak parking demand for The Institute of Traffic Engineers uh here are a number of other findings in fact as I mentioned it's the there's the comprehensive plan case to increase the density from res one to Res 9 but the actual increases five to seven because of the Villages at Laguna Hills plan on May 12 1999 there was a special exception that was granted for golf school and driving range for both parcels and then number three the hen cartonium Beauty has designated three different product types as tnd products and these will be the single family detached that are proposed within the impurity town homes and duplexes always rear and Alley loaded Lots um and number four is just a standard type of discussions thank you all right I have a question on that Mr Starkey because in my meeting and I'm just making sure that I'm hearing what he's saying it said only the single family detached will be reloaded and the town homes may or may not be reloaded which is something I wanted to discuss with everybody but here you're saying all of them are real money the tnd products so this is part of an incentive that was uh built into this mpud in the conditions of approval that if you are a tnd product type which would be the rear loaded or outly loaded product um you would you would be able to benefit by partaking of that incentive so there may be products that do not pick up the incentive that may be front loaded and they would not receive that incentive but if you are a tnd product and so they it's basically an incentive to build the rear loaded products that we desire with the with the shape of this lot how in the Wetland running through it how do you think that works for our real world reloaded project I didn't hear the question with the shape of the lot yes how do you in the Wetland that runs through it how do you think that works for a rear loaded lot I think the applicant could probably speak to it much better than me but some of the conceptuals that I have seen is most of the rear loaded product is located interior to the site and wetlands were not really a preclusion to reload to products being rear loaded where well you'll probably see front loaded product is any kind of yeah any kind of product that's located on the perimeter of the property okay yeah uh the proposed requesting is consistent with the passport county line development code chapter 400 subsection 402.2 zoning Amendment and PUD Master Planning Development and as we noted with the provisions of the comprehensive plan and so this comes forward from the planning department with the recommendations with conditions and I should mention too

there was a last minute update to the conditions of approval condition number five under open space and buffering a provision was added to increase the fence height that would be required along Jesse Daniels drive so what the condition is talking about is prior to the final building inspection for the first dwelling unit a type B landscape offer shall be required to be installed in northern eastern and southern boundaries of the project as depicted on the master plan uh and shall include a six foot opaque fence with the exception of the area along Jesse Daniels Drive which shall be which I'll include an eight-foot opaque fence so that's the adjustment that was made prior to the board meeting Josh Breyer yeah all right any other questions that you're into your presentation that would be no conclusion any other questions for a staff at this point um is there like a minimum for for front loaded um Townhomes that would be say on the on the edge is there a minimum driveway requirement or or if if you have one side of the street being front loaded and the other side of the street being rear loaded you can have street parking all along the front the rear loaded side like parallel Street Park but not just checking on the length of the driveway because I just went through a townhome project it has 10 10 foot drag race one car sticking out of the side okay go ahead from the applicant um that might be a question that the applicant can better describe it I'm filling in for staff today so I don't know the exact details um related to that but a whole lot of the Apple can speak to it Marvel height 63 27 Grand Boulevard for the applicant a couple things with regard to the emergency access got a whisper from Steve Henry that there might be a turn lane right there so we can make it we'll make it full access subject to permitting and if not it'll be emergency access because it's ultimately we're fine with it being full access if we can permit it that way the um the change regarding the fence we did work with our neighbors we had Neighbors at Planning Commission and those those changes we're working with the neighbors we were contacted by a neighbor last week worked with that neighbor to the north and that's the change you saw regarding fencing and that's why it was not in your agenda packets because we continue to work with our neighbors up through last week the um with regard to the multi-family confusion and this is my fault Townhomes are multi-family so when we do these npuds we write them to include town homes and then not just and I didn't restrict it to platted Townhomes only so if that's the pleasure of the board you

want us to restrict it to supply the town homes only you can include that in your motion and we can and we can make the conditions reflect that it's just a confusion of multi-family including both town homes and other multi-family products that are singly owned so the way to fix that as you all been discussing is to make a plot so that there isn't that confusion that it can be all rentals so I'm more like happy to fix that the with regard to the town home standards the commissioner is asking about what are our driveway lengths our driveway lands in here are 20. we have a specific condition number 46. let me read that to you our multi-family shall be subject to any LDC amendments or boccc adopted policy setting forth architectural design and monotony standards adopted subsequent to the approval of the hand cart 20 MPD and prior to pulmonary development plan construction plan submittal so we recognize your concerns about town homes and parking and driveway length but it's really difficult to do that to solve that on a project by project basis so what we did is we said this project will be subjected to whatever standards you come up with we're happy to participate in those better way to do that is the way that you've been doing it which is by policy Direction the board that ever applies to everybody so we suggested this condition and put it in our conditions of approval so we will be subject to whatever policy you end up end up putting together four uh Townhomes you'll be subject to that policy so if you decide the driveway should be 23 feet instead of 20 feet if you decide there needs to be specific dedicated visitor parking we'll be subject to that it's just hard to do it on a project by project basis so that's why we keep up with the condition well I'm just curious about how you have 1.9 spots for cars when right so that's if you did an all an unplatted project that's what that says and what I'm saying is when we will remove those variations because we if it's the government this is you guys are moving pretty quick on us as far as what you want to see and don't want to see in Pasco and I'm trying to keep up I'm trying to lead um not only just keep up but so we have in there right now the ability to platted or unplatted if it's the pleasure of the board that we restrict this project to Planet which is with the policy you just passed last time to say we want to see single family platted we don't want to so if you want us to restrict this to platted that variation will go away and it will be platted Townhomes that have the parking standard in your code which at the moment is 2.25 including you get to include the garage but you are working on townhome standards that may require additional parking so right now allows unplatted product we can solve that by requiring only

plotted product if that's the pleasure of the board like I say I'm trying to keep up but also keep these projects moving forward and so my clients are out of contract and lose and lose their projects so so these units have a single car garage if we depleted that's correct they will have they will have a garage whether it's one car or two car front end we can do front or rear loaded what we did do is again we heard the board talk about voph and we heard you talk about wanting to see rear loaded so we did a couple things in regard to that one is that any of our single family has to be reloaded so if we have single family detached product it has to be reloaded so and then we just said for your town home product the issue was vo pH doesn't require tnd or rear loaded so we worked with your staff we had a meeting they called us into a meeting right after the board discussed the fact that we'd like to see rear loaded product in voph doesn't require reloaded product but how can we incentivize that so one we have the standards built in for either front loaded or rear loaded for town homes single family detached homes only reloaded and then we have incentive Provisions to try to incentivize the rearload Townhomes that's how we built this project and the approval paperwork for this project okay Mr Starkey before they switched to my picture I want you to notice that we have two neighborhoods that don't connect right there on the left and so they all have to go out onto the arterial road to get anywhere that's not a good not a good system this yeah this project yeah no variation interconnection we get it we we absolutely hear what you're saying we never requested a variation to interconnection north um East or South we'll have the interconnections we understand that this is the first piece in this area and so even more so interconnectivity is important okay um where's my picture I have two so I'm looking at here on the trees and I know that um I know that in the past um our utilities department has been requiring a 10 foot easement in the front and so our Builders we're having a really hard time putting Street trees in and is there something going on and I had a discussion and and as I was said I was just in Bentonville and I took some photos how all their utilities are under the sidewalk um and and they were doing Street trees everywhere so and one of looking at your language here it says two trees per four town homes so this is your language it's taken directly from the board's policy adopted in 2022. so I'm just not sure that's enough for us and and and if the board if if if our utility department is willing to shrink that

um requirement to stay I think 10 feet you know have a 10 foot don't touch it Zone can we get more Street trees in where's my picture so while the picture's loading Commissioners I know you want to do standards for Town Homes I want to do them too but let's talk about the town home front yard I'm talking about on this along the street all the above I know you want to change your standards that you did last spring in 2022 before we had some new Commissioners on the board this project will be subject to whatever you come up with you just can't do this from the diets project by project it's very difficult but my project will be subject to whatever we come up with I'm all in I hear you I just can't do this project by project I'm doing the best I can to both make sure you have the quality you want but also not kill all these projects and I will say it's gonna it's gonna be a struggle to change where utilities go and work with utilities on the Deus as well I think that's fine yeah I was trying to get some clarity on what we're looking at oh these are town homes now what is it about this you want to talk about oh trees and and right now we're can't do it here but I but if we can work with our own County to say it's okay to put a street tree in um so I don't want to confuse issues here I think the easements that we're talking about are probably soft utility easements which are on every lot and those are for soft utilities typically utilities for water and wastewater are located in the right-of-way which would be from the property line to property line right the right-of-way um is there sometimes an aversion to putting trees over utility lines yes does that mean that we can't work on that uh we certainly can work work with that there's probably certain pieces of infrastructure where they don't want a tree so for example we're a Sewer Lateral trunk line is probably not but the there's ways to work with that um we're not averse to putting water lines under sidewalks and those types of things whether or not that makes room this picture here looks like a lot of driveways to me rather with me rather than correct rather than rather than trees so rather than utilities I would say that if there are utilities there they're probably under concrete but you know we that that can be worked on I don't know if this is really related I think there's just a couple of issues your issue is related to Street trees how do we how do we how do we get more trees on the streets for for these types of products and I like the private sector tell me how we make that work because I just I don't want to be one of the way uh the street please I think we can make that happen and work better with the development community so we don't have this uh let's carry on with the presentation we'll get some more questions at the end

we can um we just have one presentation so you've seen it from Miss barrero um yeah things I would add to her was just the things that we did relative to the neighbors the fencing the size of the fencing we actually added an improvement to where Jesse Daniels meet um hancart road we added an improvement over the tops what's required to work with our neighbors other than that that's we didn't have it together in the presentation all right commissioner waitman thank you thank you Mr Ohio thank you to uh your client I uh appreciate you all the work on the on the Aesthetics and the Green Space issue I'm I'm comfortable with this project it's this board goes along to having the condition of it being simple and apply that's my biggest concern and uh I'd support this item would recommendations of this whole height the piece that we'll ride it On This Town all right so I'll say with the town home projects again I've commented on my daughters up in Orlando no parking et cetera they were a single car driveway with a garage and that was it for parking good luck if you find the spot uh I can't see cutting that back because that would even be less let me just it would just be a disaster trying to find parking so right now you're saying the way this town home project is designed is a two parking spots one ones in the garage and one's in the driveway your code requires 2.25 parking spaces per townhome but it allowed and you calculate that project wide and you come up with a number but you get credit for your spots in the in garage and so I think that's as you look to established townhome standards you probably want to look to do dedicated visitor spacing outside of the driveways so that you have to meet your because right now project I mean 2.25 and you're not seeing any difference you're not seeing visitors basically you're you're concerned about this parking that you're seeing period so I think what you have to do is you go when you go to established standards you need to establish dedicated visitor spaces they're outside the driveway but let me ask this question with what you're saying the way you're setting these parking spots up why would you even need to go to 1.9 why wouldn't it be automatically two when you've got a driveway in a parking spot that confusion and I really apologize for that is because of platted versus unplatted we are now in the real that variation is gone that has to do with unplotted products we are only talking about planted product that's nothing to do with that variation so we're going to take out number two that variations that's correct

both those variations you saw can go away with just that one change like you did in your policy of making these things so that's that's what we've committed to do and our parking will be code 2.25 spaces per unit two spaces 0.25 per visitor until you change your policy that you need to work on we're willing to work on um and help yeah for we're really you know what need others to help with that effort as well um when you change your policy will be subject to whatever your new policy is if you want dedicated visitor spacing and that's what's in your new policy that's what this project will be subject to I just need we need to do those discussions in the realm of that policy making as opposed to project by project how much time do we have before we have to put that policy in place this condition is written that we can't submit our construction plans um well it says we have to comply with wherever you come up with if it's adopted prior to our preliminary plan submittal that's what it says how much time do we have yeah quickly preparing plans at this time okay we have no plans being submitted at this time all right we'll hold that thought for a minute Mr Starkey um I have a couple questions on um number eight says I'll give you a second there let me find my um it's a developer Builder is unable to provide the appropriate number of trees on the platted lot due to easements or other constraints as determined by the County administrator or designee then you can plant trees in the common areas what would what would be a reason why you couldn't put a tree in front of someone's house this is a county standard condition so maybe Brad Pitt said that implements this condition might be able to answer that okay um I this is a standard position and then my other question is each front loaded townhome block group of attached units with four or fewer units they'll have a minimum of two trees in the front yard is that two trees in front of the four or two trees in front of that's not two trees in front of each townhouse is it no it's written to say for a block of four units townhome units a block of four units side by side there has to be two trees here's the person who implements these conditions so let me have him answer your questions thank you all right um so the um Sorry Brad Tiffany playing and development um to answer the most recent question as

far as the blocks and having two trees there typically that is a driveway issue they will move Driveways near each other and then that leaves a certain amount of space where you can put trees and in the distance that trees are supposed to be playing apart from each other kind of creates that that limitation there so you have driveways we merge the driveways together to the extent that we can to create enough space for trees and you can usually only get a certain number of trees in there it's two for a four unit building and I think it's three for for a five or six but uh the other questions you had was what types of scenarios constraints might result in moving those trees uh they can there's electrical systems and different types of of units that sometimes need to be in certain locations for buildings uh that if that space is limited uh you can move that or change the type of tree or move that tree to an area just on the side of the building you know in the near near area Brad what's the length of current driveway the driveways uh we don't necessarily have a a required link for a driveway it's it's a function of the actual setback of the garage so in in the design criteria that are in the MPD it tells you what the setback of the garage is that's how long your driveway will be from the property line to the end of the garage unless they choose to make it longer generally it depends on the size of the unit if they have a four bedroom unit or a four bedroom house then they're going to need 3.25 spaces which they round up to four obviously which means two cars in the garage two cars in a driveway which means they'll need a minimum 20 foot driveway so that's typically what how it ends up it's a matter from the pictures you saw from the project is that pretty much how a lot of concrete gets poured when situations like that the picture that commissioner Starkey put up correct that's basically the minimum yes that's the the most minimum standard that we have uh when you get to driveways you're also talking about flare creates some of that large concrete expanse across the front but the right-of-way being from back of sidewalks to back of sidewalk okay um so and I just want to make sure talk about this picture because this is a this is not something we're supposed to approve right here this is something happened wrong in this though well I'm trying to get to like how this happened how do we avoid it that's a good question I'd like to know that so when I look at like this car here with SUV in the picture it's got just a little bit of room behind it if someone's got a full-size truck Suburban they try to park in a smaller length driveway they can be cut off what's what's the length of a like a large truck so to use this picture and to put this in perspective the edge of right-of-way is actually where you see those little green planter beds okay so everything from from those green Planters to the right in that picture is

right-of-way so what happened here is all of that area where normally there would be some uh some driveway flares and things of that nature those were removed and it was kept all this concrete that was probably to improve parking to to increase some parking in some way but when you look at where the SUV is parked that is basically a 20-foot parking space that's a 20-foot driveway probably from the edge of the line I was talking about up to the building front that's probably the the minimum 20 foot for the setback so is it 20 is 20 foot the norm we have for a townhome project or It generally that's what what they choose to do it's again with the mpuds you set the actual setback requirements so if the garage setback is more than 20 feet you'll have a longer Drive if it's 25 feet then you'll have a 25 foot driver okay this is turkey and the garage setback is often different from the building setback itself so I I have all kinds of questions on how this possibly happened but do we need to put something in that there needs to be grains how much Green Space Between the curb and the sidewalk so yes that is something that we can that's within the right-of-way essentially it's a little bit different from private versus all kinds of nuances there but in general yes we can talk to that this is not prohibited well um it's not what we would consider best practice but it's also not prohibited I'm trading one thing for another it's it's giving you some more parking and some of that at the expense of trees um you know it's unfortunately it's not prohibited by the way our code is currently written I just wonder if when they did their calculations that they counted this much concrete and so I mean they've covered more than probably they said they were going to so probably they needed another Pond after doing that but I need to prohibit this and and I don't want this and and if we if it's allowed right now I'd like to put a condition in this and everything that comes in front of us that we can but you can't ever do this again so what what does that look like and this is what I'm talking about if we have X amount of space between the curb and the sidewalk you can put a row of trees in there right and we can see in addition to we can certainly do that and I think we can do that you know similar to how we did the other the other uh issues with Terry and we can work through that come up with that I don't think that's going to be a situation that occurs with this particular project I need to put it in writing that they're not allowed to do this right guys if you go drive through this it's not it's not a good thing that we approve this I I driven actually look at a really nice project um and just took a right turn to take a look at this one here the comparison was

just dramatic so we can do it right I just make sure we get it right commission away this is The Preserve so there's some different products yeah thank you so I'm here miss Wilhite say is that the changes that think based on this conversation we need to bring back some to policy opportunities like in two weeks for town we see these every board meeting so I think consensus from this board let's get something in double time here but what I think I'm hearing Miss well I say is a condition that she can make immediately is fee simple and platted and that whatever are are policy memo is on Townhomes that they're willing to adopt into this plan that's correct if we accept that's the concession that I'm hearing on the record today this is allowed today but she's making a con on the record she's making another condition just on her on the project if we approve it today with the immediate being flattened and you know these be simple product and then if we work an expeditious way to come up with what makes you comfortable Fisher Starkey and others here on a town on townhome conditions and a policy member they're willing to accept and I appreciate and I appreciate that very much um instead of I think I hope if there's any other Town Hall projects in here today that you're listening that way we don't go through this again today but I'm I'm willing to accept on the record and get something in writing I hope this will hide that to address commissioner starkey's concerns and we can you know move forward here yes will I um when we we looked at this project we didn't talk about any of these links or any of the sidewalks we've discussed the whole project and the project looked good but actually I sat there not knowing that the limit on these parking spaces and those tightness I mean a truck like I drive cannot fit in this parking space on the outside without interfering with the sidewalk so that's a big issue commission I absolutely recognize that I'm standing here telling you I recognized it and I wrote a condition to make set your policy we're going to follow it we've got to set your we've got to set up all right is it already in the conditions or you're willingness it's brought to you here today condition 46 is sitting before you today I didn't wait for you to I didn't wait for you to ask me or wait to tell me that you're uncomfortable that we don't have any town home standards I got it so I wrote condition 46 to say we will comply with your policy yes you've got to timely get a policy done commissioner weightman's we can't keep waiting forever because we need to move projects forward we need to know what the standards are so but

yes I'm I'm all in you know to write standards to do whatever I can so I don't have to stand here and you all be disappointed and I'm disappointed I got to move projects forward um but I think this is the way to do it one that he applatted and two having this condition that says we're going to follow your policy now you got to get your policy done I'm all in for helping with that you've discuss it every meeting I hear you um I'm all in to help with that and we will be subject to that policy all those things monotony you can address all those things in a town home standard you just need to get one done so that you can feel comfortable we know what the standards are all right commissioner um I don't think that we in in maybe if if Brad is saying that this is allowed today then we have to put an additional sentence that you're going to have to have some kind of grass in between the curb and the sidewalk is that right so yeah just to clarify because that's not I'm looking here it's not in here anywhere I did get new information that this one was an alternative standard that was allowed that actually is a shorter driveway that's a 16 foot driveway there so that's what happened to that so we have like a we've got a horizontal driveway and a vertical driveway so our project is also not proposing this mountable curve that you see here so you can't have the cars go up on the sidewalk so there will be a curb in the road that they can't Mount and use the sidewalk for a parking space okay so so there there will be grass between the curb and the sidewalk I'm asking somebody so we can we can use the the standard if it's front loaded the the standard you can require the standard driveway design with driveway flares and that is essentially a small flare out to the end to assist with turn radius um but it does leave Green Space there I'm just trying to get a tree between that yeah and essentially that would that would stop the the concrete from driveway to driveway like that if you if you say to use a standard driveway design okay because I I know Jordan and a bunch of people in this room worked hard together to find some kind of ways to soften the improve the landscapes in the Townhomes but I just wondered if we missed some things I'm also looking here it says that you that a tree a lot Street tree within a townhome block maybe a shade tree an understory tree or a palm tree I thought it was three to one if you do a tree or three pumpkins so so and I I'm not sure I want an understory Tree in there under story trees that's what everyone's cutting into a book Edition nine seeds I gotta say it's shade tree not 9C speaks to palm trees in the three yeah I would like to

okay so say Three Palms over state tree but I want to take out understory there's no reason to let them put an understory versus a tree that's just an extra Landscaping I mean yeah we got it guys we gotta take out an understory which is like a big bush and put in a shade tree sure this we're setting it and Commercial I appreciate everything you're saying but we can't set individual this is policy making life here right and I think if we can get your the customer this the client missile height they're willing to follow what we come up with and so with them agreeing to that then the onus is on us the county to the way we call an emergency Workshop because we see these things so quickly yeah no but like within the next four weeks set set of policy in record time that way we can really Hash Hash Hash this out and um otherwise we'd be here forever all day every day and I hope y'all can hear the sense of urgency commissioner Starkey here she's got you know leading the charge for us absolutely supporting her and saying hey we we need to move on on this absolutely so I do want to to reiterate one thing and I think I've mentioned this before uh perhaps not here at the dioces but uh there is a time lag we have done a number of improvements uh to our code to make these things better that that physically are not on the ground yet because it takes some time trouble has entered the room so yeah you know enter on that side where it's dangerous but uh yeah there is a timeline for that so so things like this may be adequately addressed by our new codes uh once those you won't see something like that again likely uh so again there is a little bit of a time actually I understand the sense of urgency but we still don't have any on the ground examples of the new changes we've already made so before we continue to tweak we may want to kind of see that process through review that process make sure it's addressing everything but is it a lot of trouble to ask to put a tree in and not an understory tree that's like seeing a whole row of ligustum bushes versus a tree so let me try something else I'm not trying to force something down on you all today my client's not trying to do that so but so we're supportive of new policies and and compliance as policies but the things that we've you've talked about um one is platted two is we'll go with a 23 foot driveway again you can change it in your policy more subject to your policy we'll remove the understory tree from that language thank you and we'll add that there must be green space Green Space Between the back of curb and the

sidewalk again we want to listen to you we're not trying to force something down Barbara yeah I don't want to pile on but on 46 the the language you drafted now that you're talking about it not it being platted yes like multi-family needs to be changed to residential correct all right so with those changes let's see if there's any public comment no one signed up other than the uh representative okay is there Nelson the audience want to speak to this item okay close public comment do we have a motion move to approve with the conditions second as amended at this meeting I think that's second okay all in favor say aye aye okay thank you so back to p61 um this is showing as a continuance yes [Music] we have proof of publication of this item in the March 22nd 2023 edition of the Tampa Bay Times Mr chair Commissioners Denise Hernandez planning and development p61 is PDD 23 CU 11 for Ace Cheval Inc bbvts LLC T-Mobile South the request is to continue the item to the 66 2023 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1 30 in Dade City do a motion I so moved to time certain second all in favor say aye aye aye any opposed okay now you can clarify that date again something didn't ring true to me six six June 6th June 2023 PCC one Thirty date soon and if you would indulge me if I can move on to your addendum which is ap103 it's a withdrawn item so I just want to get that taken care of if we could I'm just gonna um read it real quick into record just withdraw the item it's AP 103 PDD 237632-7642 I apologize it's for Stonebridge mpud the item is withdrawn from consideration so there's no further action required on that item okay which item is it was an AP item 103 on your agenda ap103 oh lesbian withdrawn so now we can do the consent agenda yes we'll do p62 thank you our first item p62. p62 we have proof uh yes sir we have proof publication of the hearing of this matter in the March 22nd 2012 2023 Edition okay that's PDD 230270 it's a funding agreement for Two Rivers mpud Hickory Hills Land Company and others comes through with a recommendation of approval from the planning and development department and the local planning agency okay is there anyone here to speak in opposition to p62 is anyone in the queue no sir all right leave it on consent p63. approve the publication March 22nd 2023 of Tampa Bay Times that's PDD 230288 it's a development agreement for Connerton Boulevard development agreement Lennar Homes LLC comes through with a recommendation of

approval from the planning and development department and the local planning agency is anyone in opposition item p-63 in the audience so you know anyone in the queue only the representative okay leave it on consent p-64. we have publication March 22nd 2023 in the Tampa Bay Times PDD 230294 is p-64 funding agreement Winfield's mpud master plan unit development chicken dance Brothers hammock Pines Pasco County Associates one LLP and others and comes here with a recommendation of approval from the planning and development department and the local planning agency okay thank you anyone here to speak in opposition to p64 anyone in the cube representative okay leave it on consent p-65 proof of publication March 1st 2023 Tampa Bay Times p65 is pd237627 this is a zoning amendment in uh under the name of Depew East mpud master plan unit development Depew Ranch LLC and others this is a rezoning request from AC agricultural District to an mpud Master planning a development District to allow the development of a maximum of 2300 residential dwelling units and 20 000 square feet of commercial on approximately 931 Acres within the villages l and m in The Villages of Pasadena Hills there was a revision sent to you by Tammy Snyder on the 28th of April which basically the applicant has withdrawn his request for any variations on this item comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions from the planning of the Pasadena Hills planning and policy committee and the Planning and Development Department okay anyone in opposition to p65 in the audience it's I think it's an easy one for that question let me let me come back to that later um all right so anyone on p65 in the queue I believe everyone signed up our representatives for the developer okay I didn't p66 we approved publication again March 1st 2023 Tampa Bay Times that's PV 23 7645 in the zoning Amendment under the name of McCabe mqd master plan unit development Cornelius and Elizabeth McCabe it's for rezoning from an AC agricultural District to a mixed-use residential master plan unit development District to allow the development of a maximum of 470 residential units on 69 Acres within Village B of The Villages of Pasadena Hills there was a modification sent to you on May 8th um that provides some modifications to the master plan and the conditions of approval those were also provided to the clerk's office comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions um from the Pasadena Hills planning and policy committee and the Planning and Development Department okay anyone in the audience in opposition to p66 anyone on the cube uh not online but I believe the only one signed up is a

representative of the applicant okay hey commissioner Stark you have a question on p63 um yeah I just it's the extension of Compton Boulevard is I just want to make sure there's a trail on that because that's going to the this is what happens about Trail on the air and cut off 109 Northwest Street Tampa Florida have been sworn I am confirmed with our engineer that there is a trail on it uh multi-use platform [Music] Jordan Trader Cleveland is on 3010 West to Zeal Street Suite 150 Tampa Florida as part of the previous supervision TV as a connectivity plan that had memory served me with a 15 foot multi-purpose on the south side that gets built with phase one that was to allow for golf cart use as well as pedestrians and that match that typology okay okay all right and um and that concludes the um the motion to approve the consent agenda all the fair say aye aye any opposed thank you I'll go to p67 we approved publication of the hearing of this matter in the April 12th and April 19th edition of the Tampa Bay Times okay good afternoon my name is Leanne McDonald with real property planning the rail property and planning division has received a petition to vacate platted right aways alleys and lot lines filed by Tampa Electric Company Maria Spoto Joseph Spoto and Nelson's photo the petitioner has requested the vacation to permit Redevelopment of the site for a solar farm there were no objections to this petition the team recommends approval okay any questions any questions for Steph no question for staff public no one signed up no one sign up as a public hearing anyone in the audience here to speak anyone on Queue no sure okay entertain a motion no approval Zach all in favor say aye aye aye any opposed how was I thank you thank you I've got a p69 approved for publication in the April 19th edition of the Tampa Bay Times gleam Divine Planning and Development item p69 um before I begin I have received expertise from commissioner Mariano commissioner Starkey commissioner Oakley and commissioner Weightman which have been committed to the clerk's office I believe I will be receiving a ex parte from commissioner Bradford office which will be provided to the clerk's office um item p-69 PDD 23-7687 in the name of global broker Group LLC and Alma Associates LLC it's a rezoning Amendment from AR agricultural residential district to a R4 high density residential district the subject site is located on the south side of Tupper Road approximately 360 feet east of Interstate 75.

here is an aerial review of the site the future land use to the Northeast South and West is all around six the surrounding zoning to the Northeast and West is all AR to the South there is an mqd Wesley Point subdivision um this zoning amendment allowed for 155 single-family Lots with lot widths of 36 feet wide the subject site is currently undeveloped on approximately 2.61 Acres the applicant proposes to develop the property with a total of eight single-family detached homes and conformance with the R4 High Den high density residential district standards for development the surrounding area is characterized by residential and Commercial development access to the property is from Tupper Road a county maintained local road with approximately 40 feet of right-of-way that varies and the subject site has a future land use classification of red six under the comprehensive plan on February 2nd 2023 Planning Commission made a recommendation for denial citing several reasons the proposed change is inconsistent with the existing land use patterns in the area the proposed change will adversely affect living conditions to the immediate and surrounding Neighbors and the property does not have adequate access from a standard Road so this is coming with recommendation for approval from Planning Development Department and coming with a recommendation for denial from Planning Commission okay any questions for Steph or just one thing um is this road paint that's going into this problem we're going to be paid it is substandard so I I we do have transportation folks that can talk to that there are sections of the road that is unpaved all right is the applicant here good afternoon commission Jane Graham attorney at sunshine city law I have a presentation and hopefully it is okay and I'm here today with my client Alma Associates Mr Anthony Marsh is here as well I guess foreign so we're here for this topper Road change and Zoning now I want to make it clear that this is a quasi-judicial hearing today your decision must be based on competent substantial evidence that cannot be based on generalizations conjecture or opinions the evidence shows that this request meets the euclidean rezoning criteria to give you some context this property is located on the other side of I-75 north of State Road 54. The Grove and crate shopping center is just on the other side of 75 the future land use is residential six and as you can see let me see if I could do the points are I don't know well the red star shows where it is and it's it's really within the residential six it's not like right on the outskirts it's there um a little bit north is residential

three and then on the other side of 75 you have mixed use and you have some commercial and planned developments to the South so as residential six there's the ability to develop up to a maximum density of six dwelling units here is a copy of the conceptual plan which my client has provided now it shows that the lots are a variety of lot sizes they're only asking for eight units they could potentially ask for up to 12 but they're just asking for eight and the reason why this is eight is they're looking for a gradual transition to the full density that's contemplated under residential six now this is more detail of the specifically proposed lot sizes lot one on the top is 77.5 by 110 you have a couple that are 65.110 um moving down you'll see there's some irregularly shaped ones that are larger and then going back up there's a stormwater proposed storm water management area and um a larger area on the other side so if you do a comparison of the surrounding subdivisions this is really well within the range now R4 which is the zoning District that we're asking for that has a minimum lot of 60 by 100 6 000 square feet um in this case we're looking for a range but the smallest is 7150 square feet directly to the South is a mpud it's Wesley Point 155 single family homes and those are only 3650 square feet a little bit over the Villages of Wesley Chapel and those are 60 by 115 which is actually a little bit smaller than what we're asking for it's 6900 square feet now there's a proposal which I won't go into in detail which you um the Planning Commission had looked at which is just down the road and that does have a higher proposed density but we you know it's not really comparable but just so that you have the information in front of you now something to keep in mind is that even though we're asking for R4 there are also existing design limitations on site itself for example part of the land will have to be dedicated to the right-of-way there's an interior Street and cul-de-sac which will substantially reduce the area available for develop developable lot creation and storm water retention will also reduce the area available we have Dylan Alderman available who is my client's architect if there are any questions about this as far as the specific design he's done this analysis so this is a larger picture of where this fits in with the Lots as you can see there are a number of lots all around it this is a close-up this is an overlay net oh what happened there okay there's an overlay of the conceptual plan oh maybe there's a power outage I don't know what's going on there that is odd um but yeah so so you can see the size of the locks especially lot six next to the smaller lots to the South this is the the bigger picture of the

overlay that shows you know this is not just only an agricultural area I mean there is quite a bit of development in the existing area this is a zoning map which also shows that you know there are mpuds around there is AR but there are a number of amputees there's actually a residential four a little bit South there's residential one there's residential two there's commercial to mpuds you know this is not only an agricultural area to give a little idea um and personalization of the project my client actually had a landscaping business up north and he takes the Landscaping very seriously and just to give a little bit of an idea conceptually of what he'd like um you know he takes great pride and you know he likes to have high quality in the type of products that he makes this is a house that he actually built in St Petersburg and or refurbished and so he you know he likes to really look at the style now a significant issue that you are going to to hear and you need to talk about is the road the access to the property is on Tupper Road it's a county maintained local road with approximately 40 feet right of way now as far as the question of whose road is it I refer you to Florida statute 95 361 which says that after a certain amount of time where a county maintains a road it is it is their property um at the Planning Commission it had been previously testified that the peak hour trips were six or eight trips depending on AM or PM something else to take into account is that Tupper road is a vision Road um which envisions that there will be more growth in the area as well it's going to connect 54 to 52. um what my client is doing is he he had been asked oh this is going in the opposite direction I don't um my client it's not going in the right direction here well no you went I just all right which I apologize um all right so just to to close here um yeah so the you know this oh I apologize could I have 30 more seconds okay all right so yeah so um staff had requested a fair share payment for 61 000 um this is a substandard road but it doesn't trip the the threshold for over 100 daily trips so it's just a fair share payment that's needed my client is happy to pay that um and as far as neighborhood compatibility just again you know my client wants to be a good neighbor there are a number of these homes around this is actually on Tupper Road a little bit down you can see that you know it is agricultural on one side on the North side but on the South Side there are lots of homes as well again that's that so um in closing this meets the rezoning criteria it's consistent with a comprehensive plan

Road impact is minimal my client is complying with the County's requirements as far as fair share payment there are only eight units it's not you know 100 something units I mean this is really has large Lots it seems like a no-brainer there's actually a stretch of over 1733 feet of single-family homes already along Tupper Road anyway on the South Side so that's it but I would like to enter this presentation into the record if I could to receive in class okay thank you and the one last thing is my client actually received an email from his neighbor Mr Ken Jacks he's his neighbor to the East and it was of support um I believe that it was sent to the commission and I passed it on as well to Mr Divine but it came in late so I just want to confirm that that would be able to be entered into the record as well um we can make a motion on that too uh a move to receive the email second all in favor say aye aye any opposed okay any questions for the applicant hello okay um any questions for staff this is a public hearing anyone from the public want to speak to item p69. we have no one signed up or online or online okay do you wish to speak please come forward if anyone's going to speak please land up behind him uh may I ask were you here when we administered the oath earlier yes sir I'm sorry so with your name and address just acknowledge that you took me my name is David McLaughlin I live at 28841 topper Road and obviously as we're all aware of the Planning Commission recommended Denial on this and I think they they really hit the accurate points within the rules that the county has set and the guidelines but I think something that really needs to be noted is the density of topper Road there are 12 homes on top of Road one is not even completed or inhabited at this point so if you break it down by acreage of addresses on top of roads it's one house per 27 Acres everything is AR no one has any immediate plans that I'm aware of on top of road to do any type of development it's still active Farmland so as far as anything on the south and the copper road that was discussed there is an mpud it's been there since the mid 90s completely isolated by a six foot masonry wall and there's no access whatsoever to top of the road it's completely independent there's trees it's a barrier so I don't deny the existence of it and whenever you look at the aerial map you can see okay this property kind of Catty Corners this one but it just doesn't fit the character of the area so and as far as the debate on who owns the road I think that debate will continue because we have Property Owners on top of roads that bought within the last two

three years their surveys show that they own half of that road so obviously if the survey was passed the county is aware that they purchased the property they don't have the road so I guess we can take that up at a later date but that's all I have thank you for your time okay thank you anyone else here to speak to the item maybe a staff come up and address the road issue Mr chairman that the the road in question has my and I'll let development staff Planning and Development staff confirm this but the the road has been maintained by the county it is shown on the road book um under the statute that Ms Graham pointed out 95 361. um we do not have to have a right-of-way map on file it is sufficient enough that we have maintained it for the period of years that we have so the County's position is that it is a county maintained Road the level of maintenance is not great okay any questions Steph Mr welcome I heard him say something about one house for 27 Acres but there's houses right next to this this lot for these eight homes they're not on 27 makers so I mean they're similar lot size maybe even smaller right size than some that he has on this project so I just want to make that clear that it looked like it conformed to what's next door to it in there if I can while the wall the uh applicants attorney correctly pointed out that this is R4 and it's euclidean um she also represented that there was a conceptual plan and that this was an eight unit project that may be this property owner's intent but once you rezon it to R4 that site plan isn't about binding that number of lots is not binding so you are you are rezoning this to the R4 euclidean category there are to my knowledge no deed restrictions that would prohibit them or that would require them to make this an eight unit population push away thanks here let's Jump Right In here I'm opposed to this project here Planning Commission voted it down when you look at the neighborhood and I've driven this this neighborhood we have several items coming up it's very clear that Wesley Point project was not something we should be proud of at 35 foot Lots it's do you drive in there you say man how this happens right in the existing this Project's at the very end of Tupper Road a dead sand temple road is a dirt road it's a clearly a substandard road and when you look at the neighboring houses everybody's sitting on an acre Plus okay every house is sitting on an acre acre plus and then you're putting in this project wants eight but it could be

more eight more units within there with the cul-de-sac it's just it's not conforming to the existing area to the way the folks that live there are currently living and um so when you look at it on on the plan and it doesn't fit so I'm opposed to this project question so I'm in support of the project but um are we but I'd like it not to I'd like it to stick with the Eight houses can we not condition this no it's a euclidean zone so um is there another Network inside our Force well our four is 60 by 100 right that's the minimum is there something like what's the next size I would defer that to Miss Hernandez and um and the reason is because while there may be farms and ranches there now they're not going to be in the near future and don't forget there's a table project coming right down at the other end on the street on the Caroline so it's already starting to change and I'd much rather see the bigger lots and that Opera that that bigger size line I'm not I'm not saying I'm a PO I'm a fan of this type of development yeah however I'm saying at this point in time in this area with what's in that existing area if you go traveling it does not fit is okay with it and eight eight houses is not gonna affect that road much all right let's hear from Denise yeah but I I don't want it to go to 16 now so the question was to step down from R4 would be R3 and those are 75 500 foot Lots then after that you have 9 500 foot Lots and then after that you have 20 000 square foot loss so what so if we went to R3 could these get eight Lots out of there um is that the number you said R3 or three so 2.61 Acres so he can get his why don't we do a number of lots not our four our three can get his eight he can get his eight if he does R3 I'm not I I don't want to open the door to smaller lines all right do you mind if I bring the applicant back up yeah so commissioner my client would like to offer R4 with a deed restriction for eight units if that's something that would make the difference the reason why we haven't done R3 is because looking at the um the requirements of R3 it is a slightly larger lot size and there's a preference just for the design of this that they would have the different sizes of lots some larger and some slightly smaller in the 65 and so it would be my client's preference to do a deed restriction foreign restriction but as I said you can't condition this that would have to be something that would be awesome you can either go to R3 today or continue and then get it okay my client says R3 is okay okay about

three so I would make oh yeah okay what's the motion uh R3 R3 okay I might she moved you second a second okay any further discussion all in favor say aye aye opposed and opposed three one passes three one item p70. we have proven publication of this item in the April 19 2023 edition of the Tampa Bay Times and we do have uh folks signed up okay [Music] William Divine Planning and Development item p70 before I begin I have received expertise from commissioner Weightman commissioner Bradford commissioner Starkey appointment Mariano and commissioner Oakley which happens submitted to the clerk's office item pdd23-7689 in the name of Martha Joanne wood Henman it's a zoning Amendment from R1 rural density residential district and R2 low density residential district to mf1 multi-family medium density District the septic site the subject site is on the north side of Caroline Drive West of Fridley Ford which I always mess up Drive um and here is the aerial view Bradley um just some context this is the surrounding area a little zoomed out of the aerial the surrounding future land use to the north Is Res 3 and to the east south and west is all red six the surrounding zoning to the north east and west is all AR and to the South is R1 the subject site consists of a barn and tree farm on approximately 40.2 Acres the applicant proposes to develop the property with 162 townhomes in conformance with the mf1 multi-family medium density District standards for development the applicant has volunteered to record a deed restriction for the property some of those restrictions are too limit to limit the density to 162 dwelling units on the property um so I'll have a maximum of six dwelling units per townhome building repave Caroline drive from State Road 54 to the property boundary install a five foot sidewalk on the west side of Caroline Drive there shall be a minimum 40 feet building setback for the external property lines except for conflicts with primary and emergency access there should be a type B landscape buffer with a minimum width of 30 feet there shall be a minimum 20 feet between buildings with dwelling units there shall be a six foot high solid fence installed around the perimeter of the property driveway shall have a minimum of 23 feet in length there shall be a minimum of 70 spaces for visiting parking in addition to the parking requirements by the Pasco County Lane development code access to topper Road will be emergency access only until such time Tupper road is

constructed to County standards and vision Road H is completed to Tupper Road and then shall extend the eastbound left turn lane at the intersection of Caroline in State Road 54 if necessary based on an access management analysis so that would be the last deep restriction access to the property is from Caroline Drive a county maintained local road with approximately 60 feet of right away sorry um subject site has a future land use classification of red sticks under the comprehensive plan and this is coming with recommendations for approval from Planning Commission and Planning Development Department um was there um any connection to the north a stub out I know there's nothing there now but um did we not discuss having some kind of future connectivity going on so this is a euclidian one we really don't restrict that but it is part of our Land Development code to provide interconnects and so do they have a step out to the north so euclidean zoning there is no site plan okay well I'll ask the applicant when she comes up okay any other questions just ask this one the applicant 327 Grand Boulevard try not to duplicate your staff's presentation as we have has been presented to you the to Lakers is 40.2 Acres 29.8 Acres Uplands remainder Wetlands mf1 Zoning for 162 Townhomes gross 4.1 units per acre net 5.4 units per acre 5.4 units per uh developable acre for our town home project is on the low side for townhome density when I show you the concept plan you'll be able to see how that works out the comp plan is res six which allows up to 194.49 which is 194 units we're requesting 162 to 20 percent lower than your comp plan density trip comparison to the current zoning the existing zoning allows 152 units and the decrease between the fact that going single family to town homes decreases your traffic in the AM by 39 and the PM by 28 over what's the property is owned today context you've just seen this this is the urban service area so not only do you have res six that has been res six for many many years but you also in 2008 made this Urban concentration area and you also have done quite a bit of their work in this area to look at what your road Network needs to be as growth occurs thank you this is our site in comparison to the different things are going on around it as you can see you've got Wells Road Extension risby Downs extension coming up and our site will have there's a condition that says that our access to Tupper will be emergency until you have the road network over here so we can get our project over to

your Bruce B down extension at that point our project will have to have full access to tougher Road once it's improved this is our concept plan correct we're doing euclidean zoning but we do have connectivity to the north and to to Tupper Road on your southern side as well as our entrance which is on Caroline Drive this is Caroline Drive Entrance right there okay I mean are you saying that that could step out to the north eventually that is what your code requires we're not asking for any variation from that code your code requires that connection right here okay so that that that will continue on okay and and you know the people that live there need to know that that the future Road connection correct not a cul-de-sac a tea cul-de-sac right good point okay so the other things that you'll see with this with this site plan you'll see the things that um Liam said to you regarding buffers and building setbacks for example along this property line along all of our property lines our building setback is 40 feet compared to the existing zoning which today allows 25 feet allows residences within 25 feet of your property lines This is 40 feet right now you can have some pools within five feet of the property lines and all of our buildings will be back 40 feet so the driveways on the right of the town home seem to be longer than the driveways on the left side what's going on there I think it's just the picture I can tell you that the deed restrictions call for minimum driveway length of 23 feet so I think that's just a picture the other thing that you'll notice from this is is the buffering we have enhanced buffering and where we've chosen to put our ponds and our in our amenities our hands buffering is 30 feet type B on the south and east side of the project right now the current zoning requires no buffer to the South you can have homes to homes no buffers and the East requires a type A under the current zoning 10 feet we're providing three times that at 30 feet we're going from an a buffer which required the current zoning on this East Side to a type B buffer under your code the code requires would be a 15 foot under for multi-family and we're proposing 30 feet what we really tried to do here Commissioners is when I said I noted that density of 5.4 units per acre being very low on Townhomes we provided by keeping the density down provided the ability to have larger building setbacks more Landscaping as well as dedicated parking we have the conversation about parking this site plan is far enough along that we have committed to 70 visitor spaces those are dedicated visitor spaces outside of the driveways so in addition to the minimum code requirements through 70 and they've been put in places so they'll be very usable by the residents and their guests

we have a fence surrounding the project as you've heard Caroline Drive is substandard we were asked by staff to just make a substantive Road payment and that's what the code requires it's substandard because of pavement quality not because of width this is a this road is to standard other than the pavement has worn down over time it's the pavement quality that makes it substandard but instead of just paying into it my clients offered and as agreed to in a deed restriction to pave to County standards Caroline drive from State Road 54 to the to the entrance Caroline Drive is a public road it's stubbed out to this property so this is the continuation of of Caroline drive into this project the other thing that we were asked by a Planning Commission to do is to provide a sidewalk on the west side of Caroline Drive there's no requirement for that your substandard road ordinance doesn't require sidewalks at all they don't consider it so we're going above and beyond and and going to provide a sidewalk on that West Side Caroline Drive which exceeds the code as well thank you I've just ran through all those standards as well as Liam said all the things that we're agreeing to so this is the rendering of this project we do have a builder developer and this is their product okay that was gonna be my question and that's very nice looking and it's those are trees not under story bushes and those are Street trees this was created for this project we didn't just go pick this somewhere that's our project thank you if you have any questions I have my team here any questions for the applicant just be clear be consistent these are plaited be simple not rentals that's that's correct thank you is this what they're going to look like Barbara this was created by David Wiggly homes for this particular project okay chairman just as I said in the last project this is euclidean you do apparently have deed restrictions that you've already offered up on this project that's correct seven 12 of them correct but that's correct what a difference between this and the other one that we sell yeah and I'm gonna tell you that the street trees make a huge difference all right I'm going to say African a question Barbara sorry if you would put the pitcher up on the connectivity part now I'm failing at the uh on the top right part there's a road that tees into a budding your property there but you don't connect to that why is that you're speaking to our East yeah to the right side yeah that's a that's a gated Saddle Ridge communicated private roads we have no legal ability to connect that's what happens when you get them so what about on the top part is it still gated all the way up there

as it goes out to the other way a road you see you here Saturday starts at a gate right here it goes this way and then this way they have it's private it's private all the way all the way past that property yes okay yeah chair that went into a series very good thank you thank you all right this is the time for a public comment anyone here from the public want to speak to this item yeah oh signed up uh Teresa bales I'll be right back up chairman your name and address if you would confirm that you were sworn yes my name is Theresa Bales I live at 29624 wave Bridgeway West Virginia Florida and I was sworn in thank you um I would like to speak to this project I brought some pictures because pictures are worth a thousand words I've lived in this neighborhood for 20 years um it's beautiful out there Caroline Drive has half a gallats we live on acre lots I was kind of taken back by the Tupper Road Project didn't know that was coming down the road but I run down Tupper Road out to the interstate back so I'm familiar with that part personally um I would like to say that I'm opposed to this project mainly because of the track um this is a picture of the intersection of Saddlebrook and Highway 54. at the corner of Tupper road that stop sign that says right turn only is coming to October Road you have to go right to go towards I-75 on um Highway 54. the next picture please this is taken at the east side of Tupper Road looking at the intersection of Saddlebrook um going towards I-75 going West on Highway 54. um next please am I supposed to be pushing something I feel like I'm like okay um this is just another picture of that area so my I understand when you have a problem you're supposed to come with the solution my solution instead of driving all those 300 cars down Caroline Road which is a substandard road which they said they're going to fix um is not the answer I think it is to go down tougher Road especially since Tupper road is supposed to connect to other roads in the future and you're building eight more homes down Tupper Road the next picture please this is the community Brookside which was a Southern Living Home Community beautiful Community when they come out of there they have to go right to an Ingress Lane make a U-turn to go West on Highway 54. they have no direct access in and out of their neighborhood on 54 unless you're going to Zephyr Hills okay the next one please this is the Ingress Lane coming to West no East on 54 towards Caroline Drive this is what we have when um this when 54 was widened this was the

agreement that they came up with so we can turn into our neighborhood we were not afforded a light at that intersection so we have this Ingress Lane that goes into Caroline Drive next picture please this is taken looking at the lane this is at 10 o'clock in the morning we have to play Frogger to try to get across the road to get down Caroline Drive you're going to have another 60 162 homes built on the end of Caroline Drive you've got to get traffic to go that way you next picture please this is cars coming out of Caroline Drive going west these are cars pulling into Caroline Drive traffic on 54 next when we come out on Caroline Drive the only way we can go is right now we have Knuckleheads that go straight across the road and go left but that's illegal so in order to go left and to go towards Zephyr Hills we have to go down to the height of Saddle Brook make a U-turn and go back to go east on highway 54. this is a guy doing a new term right there so you've got traffic coming out of Caroline you've got new chairs going on you've got traffic coming from the left okay next please the speed limit on Caroline this is a picture of Caroline going north the speed limit is 30 miles an hour next some County Commissioner asked the last time what this the planning guy asked what speed limit was this is the dead end this is the entrance to the property that's going to be resolved and to the right is the entrance into our neighborhood Saddle Ridge Estates next please this is a picture you were asking about what that road was that was next to it this is the Gated Community going in there okay next this is the woods property this is on taking on Tupper Road this is the emergency entrance that they're going to use to put out onto Tupper Road um this is the guy's property that has all that acreage this is the woods property to the right thanks please this is taken from Tupper Road looking down towards going to 54 that is this is the Dead End Road where those other Eight houses are going next please I'm talking as fast as I can this is the emergency entrance my suggestion would be to make the entrance to the community go in this emergency access and use Tupper Road next please oh you can go past that one this is next and this is the paved part which is at Downey and Tupper there's a section that's paved and the rest is dirt to pave to 54. that's all I have thank you thank you very much for your guys's time I appreciate you reading my emails too that I sent thank you and next person we have signed up um I'm sorry Nora robek [Music] is there anyone else in the audience Mr Roebuck if you would again confirm your address and whether you were sworn back and address is 29650 waybridge way and I was sworn in so I have many concerns as well as most

of the residents here my main concern is the traffic and right now there is no traffic light um increa obviously the traffic is increasing on Highway 54. we are now going to be Crossing three lanes of traffic the speed limit on 54 is uh 45 miles per hour but no one's doing that we're literally trying to dodge cars as it is I can't even imagine adding all of this traffic that this townhome Community is going to bring um also I know that there was a traffic analysis done as well but I don't believe the traffic analysis includes the more than thousand homes that are going in just three and a half miles going east three and a half miles going west all the homes that are being built so we're not even taking into consideration of that and as it is right now we are challenged to cross from 54 to get onto Caroline same thing in the morning you're literally you add zero speed pulling out into traffic where cars are going 45 50 miles an hour so I mean I am truly concerned for the residents my family I have a young driver in the house I just I I'm really sad that we've even gotten this far with this project um also I will say this is one thing too I believe in the Planning Commission there was this yes thank you so I'm also I've been a realtor for 18 years and I really can't think of a town home Community where you have to go through an older residential area where the lots are larger everyone lives on a larger lot in Saddle Brook we're on an acre Plus so the examples that they gave here I actually I agree with it this is perfect this is where you should see a townhome Community these are plan unit developments there are multiple points of injury and all of these communities have a traffic light for the safety of those residents where we do not um so also I again I would say as a realtor for the last 18 years in this area I know that there's a housing demand we have hundreds and hundreds of town homes that are going to be completed by the end of the year that's not even including what's going on on Curley Road right now the Demian is luxury homes or upscale homes which gentlemen just presented before us that is the need that's the demand I guess I would just ask you to please consider our safety our lives and just know that we know something will be built there we're just asking you to continue to complement what we already have on Caroline thank you thank you anyone else from the audience wants to address the yes item this item any one on WebEx I know sir okay we're going to close public comment to the board commissioner wavement thanks sir Mr chairman do you want to give me the bottle um let's hear from the applicant first foreign

for the applicant sound like most of the discussions during traffic we do have our traffic engineer Steve Henry here that can go through um and discuss any traffic issues you want to discuss um I would state that we have been thoughtful the access our access management analysis will have to look at that intersection of 54 and Caroline Drive which is off-site and we did a deed restriction that says that if that access management analysis one the access manager analysis will include that intersection even though it's off-site usually you do access management at your entrance and if a longer turn lane is warranted we've committed that as well so I just wanted to point that out because I didn't make that a part of my presentation before Steve Henry is available if you want to hear more from him regarding traffic or we can answer questions thank you so this property already has entitlements on it it could be the number of town homes that's listed here 155 single-family units what's that what's the number 162 Townhomes 152 single-family homes are zoned for now right so that's it's got existing entitlements uh One's Gonna have less traffic than the other but it goes to to the point of what what would we have approved on this site based on the neighboring how the current homes are being built with this property didn't already have its entitlements just just food for thought when you travel this area and this has been my concern for months now when we've talked and you know we've talked to dot about this this area is so congested with folks coming in and out of saddle in and out of it's dangerous frankly it's it's in and out of Brookside and then you come and you try to turn north and you're Crossing three lanes in the Caroline Drive you have Tupper which is a substandard road you're going to you know look boards approved today and the the future this area is is is ripe for being fixed what that what the fix is I'm not sure it's 50 it's it's we have a vision but it's not that's a vision that's way way on out there we're adding potentially hundreds of units and then more coming on more more folks traveling up and down Tupper and they're going to have to just make a right internal and folks coming off Caroline and coming coming through and having to turn right out on to 54. it's the traffic in this area then what's potentially going to change its potential of saladwork this entire area something needs to happen we need to have I think an emergency action plan and what we're going to do to alleviate the traffic safety something in that area when all these units come online travel I wish you would you have Walmart right there folks flying up and down east and

west it's it's a it's a it's a troubled traffic flow area and that's my biggest concern with all the projects that are that are going in right here it's you all travel so I I'd like to hear Ford's thoughts on what we can do to keep folks safe live who live in this area if I may there is a process by which we go hold on hold on yes sir just to the uh west of Saddlebrook you've got a new vision that road coming up with a new light and that Vision there's a vision Road I believe there that travels to the north does it connect somehow to this project no but it's comfortable roads always come after you gotta remember if you wanted to reload me I can show you where our project is compared to them I don't know which way I'm supposed to go there so this is our project and then you see which is Bruce B Downs extension coming from Bruce Down Bruce B Downs coming across Wiregrass Saddlebrook if approved we'll do the piece of of of wire excuse me of Bruce B Downs extension from Wiregrass Boulevard 54 spoke to Scott Sheridan today and that is in the works I have no doubt that if Saddlebrook is approved that piece will be done the conditions for Saddlebrook say you can't have the First Co in Development Area one until that road is constructed so that Road's coming so it's a matter of the rest of the road you can see there's quite a bit of property around this property that's all owned by the same owner a project they'll come in here and we'll provide the solution to bring this road up to here and then to here it means something when you all plan your vision roads and actually thinking I remember we didn't have Vision records when I was at the county these roads are you look at build out you look at well it's going to grow and you come up with these these other roadways to move traffic around our project is here this is tougher Road tougher Road eventually we'll be also you see that there's property on this side right so Tupper road is going to be improved it did require to be improved this at this point you've got the proportion of your payment because that's what's required of the code but Tupper Road will be improved this product will have full access to Tupper Road when it's improved I think the rest of this roadway is going to fill this notebook is going to fill in as this vacant property here is developed from 54 all the way up and around will be a piece of that and we're going to do go over the code to improve Caroline Drive it's only a quality issue with the pavement it is a standard Road except for the pavement quality is older we're going to extend the turn lane at Caroline we'll look at that at access management analysis at the access management analysis says you need to extend it 100 feet 200 more feet we will do that so just want to give you the bigger picture of of what's going on I

don't I understand what you're saying commissioner and I think you're looking for a a broader discussion but from a project perspective you know meeting and exceeding and fitting fitting into all these plans um that's kind of where we're coming from um can I oh okay um I have some questions let me go let me go to the president commissioner again can I come back to you thank you and I appreciate these Vision roads they're their vision 15 years from now or however well but my concern is the immediate they're they're approved densities on the Caroline Drive site when we had that many folks town home study shows it's going to be less traffic than a single family but nonetheless it's still a lot of traffic a lot more traffic anything in to 54. with limited movement they have to go west and figure out how to come back east or whatever potentially south of there on the Saddle Brook site more folks my concern is we we really need to work you mentioned your turn lane that that could allow alleviate some some safety but I like our staff to get with D.O.T and really talk about Lifetime and we Andy and I met with DOT two weeks ago and they talked they mentioned that they had it's been a while since they looked at the lifetime in the light cycle through here and this has been if you look back this has been my my number one concern from this ice really Bruce B Downs moving East on 54. is the traffic and the number of lights and people having their program three lanes to make a U-turn to go one way or another and so that's that's that's a that's a real life daily concern of the folks living in this area face every day and then we're going to you know more folks move in and then there it's just compounding the issue so um I guess it's more of a point made to Mr garmala and his team on you know it's it's important maybe if there's a way to talk about once we get the Tupper Road and improved Tupper Road sooner than later and then it has a different access point potentially for the flow of traffic it has two so hold on I'm just throwing that out there for folks to be thinking about the future of the roadway system immediately in this area Mr Starkey um in in looking at this map there's so many neighborhoods here and if you look at them you will see like look where it says step down look at the neighborhoods where it says down they don't connect to each other everybody has to go out in and out on the same road that is the recipe for disaster this is what we have done by not requiring connectivity between the neighborhoods I and and it it's very hard to fix this once you've allowed that to happen because

because you'd have to take out houses buy a house in this neighborhood and the house in that neighborhood and put a road through to connect them but we shouldn't be putting in these neighborhoods that don't connect to each other um I I am uh I sure don't want to see when that other piece of property that wraps around this one comes in you know it doesn't need to be done almost it can be nicer homes we need those in the county can't have everything clean Townhomes uh but I just I just frustrated that we've allowed so many neighborhoods that don't connect to other roads and y'all have to get out you have to get in and out 54 in and out of 52. we're doing it again on State Road 52. I'm telling you and and we're get we're going to get ourselves in trouble like I look at the stub house I'm like well where is it going I mean maybe it'll eventually hit the vision road but your options to the east to get the Boyette or you know Cooper Road which is an unpaid basement basically um it's just it's it's tough so when we go to plan the future up this this all this this land that's left here and really we're still the same board well we would make the development look bigger so I appreciate your time Mr Oakley all right when you look at the safe way out of this tougher Road and going on the 5th floor is not to go straight across from take the left we know that we have our own Engineers in-house that can look at timing of lights and tweak those to make them right so the way out of Tupper road is basically the safest way is right turn on we have some other areas in in the county already onto Island Boulevard there's one especially uh Silver Oaks they should have a right turn only because there's been some deadly accidents coming out of that area so but we have traffic folks that can do that tweaking of lights and they can look at this project and I'm sure might uh can espresso no no a right turn only no light it's still a safe turn out of that without going to your left you don't have to go down and move over and be safe and make a U-turn to come back the other way there's no right hand turn into Caroline or Tupper Road you put your blinker on no I I understand I'm talking about coming out I'm not talking about going in just there's no light there's no it's only a Saddle Room there's nobody to Tupper is the bullet where the old uh post offices were a boy at the bypassing Boyette rope popped up and there's a light there um van dying that were dead or the new road the boy

had come straight and bang Diamond by the racetrack there okay um you're done okay so you know I'm glad the residents came forward because you know we heard very similar things from people that live in Brookside at the Saddle Brook thing about going out and around we heard that people coming from outside of Saddlebrook with the apartments to be looping around where they got to go this way and they're all going to go 75 going back to 75. so with all that's going on don't mind all the apartments coming down 54. and keep in mind I told you when I came back from final going to Saddleback one day from 581 45 minutes take it from 581 to 56 in decided one 45 minutes from that guy when you throw more density in here and you've got a very unique situation where you've got a series of lights that they can't time and then anyone who goes up and down 19 you can see that it's tough to time lights but you don't even have the lights sequence where you can even get to it you're gonna have a very difficult turn and if you've got all this extra density coming in trying to make that left in and you get a couple of crazy people trying to make a left out and you can go look at data in front of the old one of the new Walmart um a small store at Littleton Ridge Road the actions there by people jumping up and jumping over when they shouldn't be going that way you're going to see some big big accidents um I I appreciate the developer I think he's great I think he does a phenomenal job uh the presentation is good but when you look at the traffic when I first was elected one of the first things we did was actually put a lot of money into this intersection ton of money yeah trying to improve it but then we keep on Improvement development development development and guess what we just had to go spend a whole bunch of money in the Virgin diamond this road had been built many years ago going up and through maybe it would have helped right but it could be years down the road we're talking about how we don't want to like talked about it earlier today you don't want to allocate special money to go to a certain area when you want to prove development you're going to be sitting in a situation where you're going to create another problem that we don't need to have going through here this area is jam-packed 54 is just jam-packed it's going to get worse when the development just finishes up even if we do nothing else we're looking up traffic issues yeah so I I I I I I can't support what's going on um attorney again um can you say again what you know about

the Bruce B Downs extension because that will be a major reliever for this but but I just want to make sure I heard it yeah so this portion here Wiregrass has the obligation to construct this portion here Wiregrass has the obligation to give the right away for this project Saddlebrook is working with Wiregrass on the specific alignment that this is going to take if this Project's over here is approved that this Project's going to take so this P this is going to be done and going north this project here has an obligation to give right away in their current MPD wait wait which project has to do it this project right here going north so we've covered from Bruce B Downs up to 54. this project here there's an MPD approved that has to give right-of-way we already approved one yep yes in the land that surrounds the site your site my site's over here yeah because that looks like a wetland so what project are you talking about there is a project here that has the obligation to give right away and what is what is the project what is it staff knows better than me Stony Brook MPD right here Stony Brook yeah they're at the corner of what be your future Vision Road and 54. they have an obligation to give right away so the missing pieces are going through this property up here which is under ownership so solutions to traffic or through your vision roads your vision roads are based upon growth I'm sorry if I can interrupt you so please from 54 to tougher is that what Stony Brook has to build or they just have to give the right Stony Brook has to give the right of way all adjacent to their property for your vision and the impact fees that are coming from Saddlebrook um a Mobility fees or the I mean well is there is that enough to fix that road no because we've got Pasco Town Center to the north of this right this feeds past the Town Center way up there eventually eventually your road here does go it's an important it's a parallel Road right it's a bit I just wonder how long it'll take to get to Tupper how long to get to top oh until this piece is done yeah I think your solution is I think you'll see the development pressure for this property you can see it's it's the only vacant larger piece of property you have in the area the development pressure is going to come and our investment growth Rose Is Not a Bad Thing density is not your enemy um so the development pressure is here for these this large tract around us one ownership I think that project will come in and work with the county on the solution to get these the rest of the roads done just like Wiregrass is doing

this and saddle Brook's going to do this piece so development can do these roads we are our project is proposing less density than it's what it's approved for today so the project to the left of that line I'm going to try and blow it up here it's not going to connect to the vision Road or or Tupper is it so the one the one that has the words Bruce B Downs on it it's already built that is a built project right there it doesn't connect to anything I believe that we didn't do any step outs or anything we didn't have we didn't have no your network that you have we don't have didn't have Vision roads back then your vision roads are are a pretty good system of roads to uh provide for traffic as well so going back to Tupper and Caroline is there any reason why we can't this project can't use both those roads physically well physically it's actually interesting they physically our site can connect you see these roads here oops not a very good close-up but look s tougher and then Caroline yeah and then the roads go and then the roads go east west those roads when people on the roads the south of us can go tougher or they can go to Caroline there's it's physically connected this is all physically connected these homes to either Caroline or tougher so they actually have access to two different ways can I see your site plan again if you don't mind sure so that's Caroline uh and what's to the left there this is Caroline coming up okay would be and Tupper is right off of here it's right here coming it comes up right right and I are you connected to that or you're not connected to that we are providing emergency access until Tupper roads approved then that converted to as indeed restrictions converted to full access your staff and the Planning Commission both pointed out that we we want to see it full access we want to see you have access to Tupper Road when it's improved we want to see you to have access to the vision Road by via Tupper Road and again when you look at what's going on because you have one property around the site you've got vacant property in the north at the Sega Tupper Road you've got bacon property to the South you're now taking money to go towards Tupper Road by approving the project earlier today these roads are all going to come into play as this last piece here comes into play and and was Tupper Road off of 54 paved or Don paved I know going Steve is nothing I'm gonna I'm getting beyond what I know about the road conditions out there I understand it's a tougher road is somewhat paved somewhat not paved is substandard like I said on Caroline the only thing that

makes Caroline substandard is the pavement quality at this point it's an older road but the width of it is standard Steve do you know more about Tupperware but they were going to fix he's looking we don't we don't access Tupper roads we didn't um we didn't look at it and what were you going to do to Caroline right we're going to pave it instead of just what your code requires and what your staff asked of us was a proportionate share payment under the code we're going to pave it to County standards we're going to this developer is going to pay um to make that road standard pavement quality because everything else is standard already and they're also going to add a sidewalk on the west hand side you will have a sideline which your substantive Road ordinance doesn't contemplate anything else for the applicant that's it I just gotta keep an hour without approval for me 152 current zoning is 152 more trips than what Townhomes Townhomes produce less trips so this is less trips you've got a good developer here you've got a lot of deed restrictions you have the ability for a very quality project and we'd ask for you to to support it thank you to frame it Celeste trips more trips still there's entitlements on the property that's going to generate more folks and more traffic in the area I appreciate it the folks working on this project you know wanting to remember they can go and do the work that needs to be done on Caroline Drive that's not necessarily something they have to do very appreciative of that and then the quality of the product that they're looking at building there and the concessions that have been made to this piece of property and I'm you know appreciative of Ms White your clients willingness to work and to build something nice and to build something that has real value to it and then do their best to improve you know the quality of life in in the life of the folks living in this area is going to change it's basically going to change overnight when these projects get approved in the volume of traffic come out so it's a it's a quick change to the area which goes to my concern with both roads are essentially substandard but we have a project that's going to improve one we have another Oak Tupper that it still comes the same thing dead ends in 54 and people have to turn right they all go to the same red light no plans in the near future to pave Tupperware no plans in the near future to get division room done and so you know look at the lesser of two evils on what we vote on today on this on this side I I just asked we work to find

some sort of traffic management plan in the short time to manage to manage all these folks and keep them safe as they're going to and from their home let me ask a question with Stephanie so the density they have currently is R1 rural density residential and R2 low density residential please explain to me how the statement where it's less dense if we go to the townhome project there are less trips the applicant said was there was less trips so tell me tell me how many homes would be on there first absolutely so basically um the property has a split zoning of R1 which is 2.2 dwelling units per acre and an R2 which is 4.6 doing units per acre when you add all that up based on the areas that are R1 and R2 I actually came up with 153 but let's say that the applicant is correct at 152. um but in terms of the trips the traffic engineer can answer that question and I believe what he's going to explain is that attached units produce less trips than do single family detached because I believe one of the things that happens in Central Family detached is that they tend to be larger units more square footage but I will allow that expert to state that right but stay with me so for these units minus the wetlands how many do you figure they can get 153. is what I got in Gross and remember that 53 gross and and I have a question for her phone what you're saying um they could do that today correct and not have to pave Caroline that's correct there was no condition of approval so this is generating less trips and Paving Caroline with n adding a sidewalk so that's why I'm implied to approve it's it's the better of both options I'm sorry yeah I think this is the better thing and this is a quality Builder quality product s so I just struggle with the units I just I just I can't see how they could get the same amount of units with the same so um so why don't we do multiplication together [Applause] let's do the exercise 27 Acres approximately of R2 multiply 27 times 4.6 who's doing it Oakley okay is that a calculator in your hand are you texting it so that should give you I think 124. and then you take 13.2 at 2.2 that should give you 29. add those two you got 153. and what about the weapons I that's why I said this was gross not net I'm talking I that would literally probably that's the whole thing sit for a while and figure that's the whole thing I don't

know delineated so we don't know the number the the Wetland so that number could go down substantially yes all right let's get up on map pages I want to see what the weather yeah and thank you for the applicant to tell me that the code calculates it on the gross so that's what we're doing we're calculating I understand I'm talking reality though I want to know how many trips are really going to happen tomorrow you're giving it maybe I can I'm not looking for your trips I'm looking for a count on how many buildings we can actually get there I'm not looking for that I want my answer first let's do math how many Wetlands we got out there Dropout map Pages you're gonna have to this is a big issue so map Pages map pages is not a full Wetland delineation so that's not a delineated wetland we can do that more math why don't we take a 10 minute break while staff taking a look and does a calculation for us okay 10 minute break [Music]

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foreign [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] thank you I can't work for all night [Applause] okay Denise showed the new calculation of the wetlands what do we got okay and their PowerPoint that you have approximately 10 acres that are wetlands on the property so what we looked at is that we I had stated previously that 27 of those acres are within R2 we allocated two two of those acres to be Wetlands so we said 25. Upland so 25 multiplied by 4.6 we're going to get to the R1 in a second 25 multiplied by 4.6 is 115. hang on a second so it's how many acres are the total together 25. so altogether the acreage is 40 acres it's 40.29 40 acres Okay so 27 acres are R2 we're allocating two eight two of those Acres as Wetlands so you get 25. times 4.6 is 115. then the 13 acres most of the wetlands is in that area so we're allocating eight acres to that so that leaves us with 13 minus eight is five so you multiply 5 by 2.2 and you get 11. um and 115 plus 11 is 126. yeah so that's what we're getting 126. what was the other the other number we had the other number we had was 153 the applicant same 152 but that's fine I mean it's just off by one unit I'm trying to be helpful here but Steve Henry's going to tell you is that single-family homes 96 equals 162 town homes so you are still even if you use the 125 number that Miss Hernandez came up with still a decrease in trips okay and you get it okay the sidewalk and the sidewalk well it's going to be a sidewalk with more traffic kids need a place to ride a bike safe okay where are we um do you want to go from the traffic consultant I just want to take progress methodology Communications and uh on this subject was the residents and Caroline Drive submitted this for the record the names of the book system okay motion receiving file great what was your question I had the exportation and just a reminder when there's a break don't talk to the either their applicants or the residents or that's ex parte contact just especially after Nashville Public comment so I asked the commissioner to disclose that okay okay the disclosed uh any other questions for applicant or staff

any questions [Music] I'll just I'm just going to ask Steve Henry to come up just give me the give me the data on those trips so what I did was run some quick numbers on the 126. so basically if you have 126 homes compared to the 162 calories it would result in about 11 less trips in the AM peak hour and about 29 Less in the PMP guy so in both instances the existing entitlements would generate more traffic than what we're proposing repeat that it's uh 11 trips in the AM plus that's what we're proposing over what is currently allowed in the property and 29. it's a net reduction in traffic and those are peak hour trips those are peak hour trips and obviously obviously we need the list decrease in the daily also you're confident that what you're proposing is indeed less strips of Caroline Drive correct yes based on what single-family homework we base our numbers are based on ite which is National Data that has done studies on hundreds and hundreds of different single families and townhome properties and historically always all the numbers Townhomes generate less traffic per unit than a single family and part of it is most town homes have less kids is when it boils down to single family tend to have more kids more traffic in and out than Town Homes do and so per unit a townhome project has less traffic and that's National Data that's also data out of you know what you guys use for Mobility fees but it is less traffic for you but it's possible in this demographic area where the schools Etc are being a great quality of life where it's hard for people to afford to live this town or project could get loaded up with more than proportionally done for the data you're using on average again it's not saying that there aren't any kids in townhomes on average kind of generate less traffic there's still kids in town they're saying on average there are less per unit than there would be on a typical single amount um let me ask applicant a question would the applicant take less units from what he's asking for right now what's your thought 126. just 126 what is that 153 now the same number as a single family okay thank you I'm trying to figure out what the it's been a long day it's only Tuesday so you're asking if you would keep it the same number keep it the same number but there's numbers and trips so we're trying to equivalate we're trying to make something equivalence not equivalent I mean we're worried about trips and traffic and we've told you all about traffic but now we're just going to arbitrarily cut the project I mean it's you're just starting the

project and and it's not gonna we already have less trips so I you can answer for himself I guess I can go ask him but it's been a long time since we just started cutting density to cut density 27 minutes back to the days of commissioner Hildebrand and Chinese auctions my client can reduce down to 150 and not kill the project 150 from from 162. which is even more of a reduction in the troops which is what you're all looking for move move to improve with the restrictions so just because it's euclidian so the applicant will revise its deed restriction to 150. that's correct and with that revision to the deed restriction the commissioner is moving for Approved at what if it looks like the picture you showed us with Street trees and trees and with the Landscaping package you showed us so we don't have to go through we went through on the last one on the record that's correct yeah any further discussion I'll just say it's unfortunate what's there what's granted and I think the best situation we can get yeah so all in favor say aye aye any opposed promotion passes I know there was a comment about the way the site plan that that's not in it in the deed restrictions I just wanted to make sure that that's what she said to be clear okay so we're adding another deed restriction yeah and I think I put that in the record that was a factual representation of the Builder's product yeah is that our last one that's our last one uh commissioner Oakley you want to bring something up yeah I'll do that and and actually uh what I want to bring up I'll wait to everybody clear so we can hear it so okay so um of course I said is the chairman of the board on Tampa Bay water and it's come to my attention quiet please it's coming to my attention that uh not just us but other people are having issues about water we don't seem to have those kind of issues because of our plan with Tampa Bay water and what they provide us in wholesale water we have cities like city of Zephyrhills have an issue about water to the point that they can't bring in a new project they're asking the developer to figure out their word problem because Zephyr Hills is in a closed Basin because all the water for Hillsborough County goes to the city of Tampa so they have to depend on others to get water and so he goes back I worked again the parallel to 301 on the east side of the road a water link between Dade City and Zephyrhills because at the time uh Dayton City had all kinds of water

and Zephyr Hills was was to the point they couldn't drill any more wells in their area because they're in a closed basin so the fact of it is there's projects being turned in or turned into the county that deals with water but the city of Zephyrhills can't provide it so I guess um what I'm saying is we need to be sure if we you know if we can help them provide water and Mike can speak up because David Allen's I think on vacation but he's not here at his meeting so I could ask him but um I think it's a concern and we have and that's a water issue and Jeffrey what's happening now Zephyrhills is receiving 200 000 gallons a day through that line now from Dade City well certain Dade City will not be able to fight the 200 000 because now Dade City's growing and they've announced the properties in for more housing and all they're going to need that water for themselves so then leave Zephyrhills without being able to possibly develop because they have no water unless the county can step in and I've talked to uh Billy Poe city manager of Zephyrhills about this before if they could change the way they treat the water where it would be identical to that of Pasco County and Tampa Bay Water the way we treat it so that water could be Blended and make it better for them to be able to us to sell them water in the city so it could take care of these developments so I think something we got to think about uh Polk County to our East their only source of water as well so when you think about their source of water being Wells they reach a certain point and they have been getting closed the fact they don't have any more water source themselves that's a huge County and a rural County overall um so we know they're having issues they're also having the same issue because they have big developments wanting to come in a lot of land on in Polk County for there I have to hold up the developments because it can't provide water so we got to be very careful about that the same token we need to also like is and we we can't mess with the tip and pull Monies to to fix rows to fix Road problems around some of these developments so we have to be careful but the mobility is going to have to come in enough to where we can fix those roadways to where it makes it safer for our residents at the same time so one issue is water in the future for one of our cities a matter of fact it's our largest city and in the county at this time that or if we're willing or we can help them with water issues then I I would think and I've heard in the past I thought we

were willing to do so at the same time sitting on the board of Tampa Bay Water we need more and more water projects for our water resource in the future one of one of my thoughts was that we'd have a water issue with another Reservoir like we have the other one but not nearly as big maybe half the size or more so that we possibly could have for another water source to help South Hillsborough and others that don't have water sources that we have and and they have a reclaim issue and knock on wood our growth has come later to where we've been able to retrofit and put reclaim ends of water yards and we so we've got a lot of uses out here to take care of the use of reclaimed water so we don't have nearly the problem that Pinellas County is facing or even the city of Tampa and Hillsborough County they're facing big issues with reclaimed water down the line if they can't get rid of it or they can't make it cleaner to go in to the bay and keep the base safe and by law they have to fix that yeah soon and yeah that's right so it's one of those things they're facing but you're thinking about it it seems okay I mean we're having this discussion today on these projects coming in with all this and and it's schools and roadways always come in behind developments and today you saw what the issue was about being able to get on a roadster and you got so much traffic and being able to have interconnect of different projects I actually today uh am a lot of people I think staffs even told us about it before about the interconnect activity of the different projects but a lot of them don't want to have interconnect they don't want people coming from outside especially if they're gated but you can understand why so but those are issues we're going to face in the future and we we need to be aware of them I think and in fact that we need to be thinking more in those lines for our development develop our County the right way to be able to look ahead and and plan for these kind of things and if we can help our cities and I think we need to do what we need to reach out to help them so but that's basically all I want to tell you I just want to bring you up to speed on what's happening around us that that might affect our developments I mean it's doing theirs and uh we don't get roads ahead but again don't get me wrong you can't take money where you don't have it and use all the money up and then the next thing you know you got this area that needs this roadway done and you have no money you can't can't steal from Peter to pay Paul it doesn't work that way so the money as we get in through Mobility fees to take care of some of the roadways and for the traffic and all it's very important so and we do have a good Engineering Group with the traffic Ops and things of that nature that they check on uh what's happening in our County so

I'm I'm sorry go ahead okay so um you know I'm glad you bring up a point that it's something to take a look at and how we need to work together as well right for tempting water to work we've got to work together we put a lot of money into that plant with the reservoir we put a lot of money into the d-cell plant and the d-cell plant only runs partially because it's so expensive to run so that's not a the best solution even though I know that's one of the projects being talked about I'm gonna I'm gonna lead you back to what I brought up this morning as far as an under under conservation I think we should work with the city all our cities including ourselves and let's go find out how many toilets are out there are on high capacity let's go work on a program to switch that over let's get a partnership with Swift Mud maybe Tampa Bay water too because if we're going to struggle to spend a huge amount of money that's going to take a ton of engineering a ton of money to design a ton of money to build and then you're moving it when we can conserve which will even save money on being able to treat the water which is going to come out as well I think it's a much stronger way to go and it's quicker that we can accommodate for this rapid growth we're facing all the development pressures we're facing to be able to get out front of it and I think uh again I'll bring this up at the Joint meeting we have coming up on Friday to do the same thing that you know we want the other cities to go look at as well because that is something that's out there I think it's probably the best low-hanging fruit that's there and it's something with the pressures that Florida is facing we're facing it's it's it makes the most sense to me how to move quick yeah commissioner I have two more things sorry I want to show you a photo uh and then so this is Trouble Creek and and now if you could go to maps to show the satellite view of Trouble Creek and Little Road um this is a very heavily wooded area along Trouble Creek we have a park right down the street called um Eagle Point Park it's across from Gulf Harbors and um this is one of two lots that we've actually um I saw this being cleared and I just forgot to call it in and then an engineer uh someone in the community saw it and called it in because as soon as he saw there was no silk fences he realized they probably didn't have a permit so then our staff went out there stopped them they did a clear-cut both Lots so when when you when you see this from the air it's going to make you sick what they cut down they filled in a class one wetland they um on the other side of 19 . can you make it so all the roads on in there I don't know how you do your layers but okay so

um so we were able to our our attorney's office did a great job of um yeah no no keep yeah it's a dairy actually that I've been working with before Dan biles even came that we were trying to make a a park out of keep going a little to the wet no West and okay now up a little bit so you can see no down sorry okay so there so all that area in there someone has come in and clear-cut and um what were they doing there they they said they were uh do you know do they they throw this is the second time this happened to me in my area oh we work with Duke and we're staging for a hurricane you know hurricane preparedness we would never let someone stage for a hurricane on a substandard road with a huge ditch like trouble Creek and and that property is zoned residential so um so we are in the process of I think they went to they did a stipulated agreement and the gentleman who rented the property from the property owner is paying like 55 000 into our tree mitigation trust fund um yeah is that right fifty thousand okay but here's here's the thing that's so bad and I'll ask our attorney to give it what's the fine purse doing site prep without a permit so as with any of your violations maximum violation of an ordinance is five hundred dollars sorry 500 a day an incident a tree but it's it's capped at five hundred dollars that's not enough that is that I mean I I can tell you being married I mean I can tell you that people will it's gonna be Catch Me If You Can but if the fine is 500 I'm gonna clear my property without the permit and then ask for forgiveness it's not okay you know that guy at at um sent the the one up in the central Pasco employment area he took out all his oak trees he I don't think he had to pay anything did he can we make him plant the trees back I I you know I don't know what I don't know what Swift bugs coming in he's going to get it from Swift but too but I just think 500 for clearing your lot is not enough without a permit well what else can we do so the but the problem is that state law under under chapter 125 caps the amount that you can penalize somebody under under any ordinance you adopt that's that's the problem we have a lobbyist sitting over there per day or so I think we need a Lobby is that per day or a total no so so yeah so code can get creative and find them per incident per day per at 500 a piece but the question that was asked is what's the maximum fine you can loving maximum fine you can Levy is five hundred dollars we have we can build it well because they're different violations so in this case you could we didn't but you could have taken the

position that each tree was a violation um I didn't we the what the what they were cited for was not having a development permit on the two lots so it was a it was two 500. I only showed you one line but it was so sad if there's some other way that we can also find somebody or or maybe we could say you can do no development on your property for three years or I mean is there is there some other way to stop this is he going to be able to go ahead and put it a staging area there no we're we're not we're not We're not gonna let him they have applied for a conditional use to use the property which will be coming before either oh is it Planning Commission or is it there you go it's a special exception application so it would be going for Planning Commission for final vote I'm it's probably not going to get approved because because that road is not if you've driven on it's very narrow it's got a very deep ditch on the side it's not suitable for construction trucks and a hurricane to be going in and out okay so that's one thing I want you to think about should we make it more punitive if you start doing this stuff without permission um the second thing involves Port Richey and if you could take that map or go up to um the cootie pipla Chas Cody River I just learned of this in a meeting with our former house Speaker actually that one of our staff that had a meeting with Port Richey okay and zoom in a little bit and so over there it catches by the bridge um you know they bought the property Jack you'll know this next door and they knocked it down there is this road called I think it's called Bridge Road I think it's the old US 19 actually Dixie Highway whatever it goes to nothing it separates the property that catches has with the new property they they bought and Cat and that the Lowe's family wanted to put dry storage there because there's a massive dry storage uh shortage along the coast the closest one that I know South has a two-year waiting list to get your boat in there and so they wanted to do dry storage there and Port Richey won't vacate that road so they couldn't do it and when they said why why won't you vacate the road we don't want development well if they don't want development jacket I don't want to work on that Ridge that goes under the path that goes under the bridge why would we be spending all our staff time and all this time all this work that we do with them and they don't want to improve their Community it's very frustrating to me to hear that I've asked the attorney the County

Administrator to we you know feel out their administrator to see if that's really true that they don't want development Improvement like that when we looked at when I looked at the new design for the new sidewalks we were going to put in and we talked about going alongside catches along 19 to you know make the make the golf path work so it wasn't going to affect catch's property it would go alongside it and I said you know if the city of Port Richey would work with you and maybe that they're not going in there and they really few people have used that place for them as a park if they would give that land up in exchange for working out getting the land they need for the sidewalk could be a great good move for both between the administration that was been there before and nothing ever took place on it I think we've got to need to point Flat Point like do they want to go so we've had some initial contact with Port Richey and and I don't believe that they are anti-development to you know in in conversations with their city manager so I don't believe that they are anti-development from what they've what they have told us I would say that regarding Bridge Street which is the one that runs down to catches I I think right now they're they're trying to determine before they were to relinquish what is a city asset or public land is there a public purpose to it so they're they're working through those types of things determine if there's a public purpose for it that's that's kind of their position on it as it as it currently stands so with two wants that are out there one if they lows in the Merino want to do dry storage there we want to get the access to the land that we need to go along 19. maybe this is a win-win I haven't met with the new mayor yet but we're scheduled I think coming up real soon to meet please ask if I can bring that and I'll try to bring the lows in the conversation too all right okay well great all right um I mean commissioner if you get a second I'd like to add something after after today can I have a Catherine here we go good actually just just a couple of things I just want to address just some comments and things that were that were brought up today with with regards to um Zephyrhills municipalities and and Water Systems know that we have been trying to work with Zephyr Hills on selling an isolated system um I I don't know if we've come to terms in terms of of dollars and cents but know that we we obviously will work with all of our municipalities and whether it's looking at service area boundaries to providing interconnects yes disinfection is is an issue in in terms of what we get but but know that those those relationships are good so if there

are issues uh clearly we'll we'll try to we'll try our best to resolve them the the second thing back to commissioner Weightman when we were talking about emergency action plans and looking at certain areas know that traffic operations um we we do we do look at operational improvements in a lot of areas and in fact that's where you'll see some feedback we're getting you know there's a lot of we'll make operational improvements in in areas where we're necessary so signals there's warrants know that with the Caroline Drive project for example when they come in for site planners access management standards organically the transportation Network increases and I but I understand the frustration of folks want capacity now when it's built for when it's there it's it's very expensive and and it happens organically over time but that's that's why we have operational folks that go in and and make those adjustments and and tweaks to to provide for safety believe me when I tell you that safety is is Paramount for these folks um the last thing that I wanted to mention I just it was kind of in the discussion with Town Homes I know that art staff is listening to you I think it's apparent when you see some of these projects that come up while they may not have all of the components necessarily the board are looking for at this moment in time because we are evolving we are in a state of evolution right now um know that they are listening and I think Mr Tippin said it well a lot of the changes in the levers that we pull today we won't see for you know 365 you know a year year and a half before these things start coming out of the ground but I will ask because it you know commissioner Whiteman did mention a sense of urgency on things and I would like some more guidance on this because we have come back to the board on single family Bill to rent we talked about that and have developed policies that we've put in place are our next to bring to you and it'll probably be on the 23rd is is addressing 40 and 50 foot Lots so we are intending to come back to you and bring industry with you with us as well after that we've got horizontal Apartments which is a branch off of the build to rent and now there's town homes so these are I want to make sure that that's still the priority and we can still work in that order but it will it's these are the same people that are still having to work and approve all these mpuds and working on this airplane while it's still flying so I I just I want to make sure that we're okay with that and and I've got planning workshops too where I need your your time so I'm I'm simply asking are these your priorities are these in order and are you comfortable being patient with us over the course of the next six to nine months as we move through these methodically um so I I would love townhomes and 40-foot Lots in the same category because to me they're just about the

same thing um and my issue with them is they they just I and I will tell you the last two people have come into my office and showed me 40 foot Lots I've said you know I just can't approve before you put line anymore and they did say Okay they've been going through the process and you know they're all ready to bring it to us and they've been through staff and worked out all the things and actually one of them we approved today um but uh I I'm just not going to prove I'm just not going to vote is that legal Foods well no I don't want to vote for a 40-foot front load of anything nothing and the commissioner believes that compatibility of 40-foot Lots is not consistent with the area she can vote against them yeah so I think we've got a good good share of the Tampa Bay Region's 40-foot Lots personally already on the books um a lot and um and so I know that that a 50-foot lot might be a little more expensive um but you know we can't solve The World's problems in Pasco County and as far as far as 40s 50s and Townhomes my only issue with my issue with town homes if they're front loaded which I don't like is that they got to have some vegetation in the front and that's the same thing for a 40 foot and 50 foot or anything and I think it was you that showed me a picture of a street in Asturias where you have houses on one side with Street trees and and houses across the street with none and I'd love for you to show the board that picture because it tells them it tells a thousand stories that when you have a community without trees it isn't a community that ages well or financially does well but he's got the best example um because one side of the street has them and the other side doesn't and it's striking so I don't know if you want to put townhomes in 40 and 50s all in the same group and I'll leave it up so my only my only response to that is is that we've been working with industry on the 40s and 50s we have not been working with them on the town homes certainly planning can whip something up and bring it but just know that you know we tend to try to you know work work with with folks so it'll kind of be a little less coordinated if you will if we were to bring something to you on on those lines okay I I've said this before but given the conversation I'll say it again you can develop regulations that Outlaw 40-foot Lots you know and for all intents and purposes but you have to adopt those regulations the the problem that we have is doing things piecemeal from the Deus on a project by project basis we're not treating everybody consistently I agree so if if you don't think the 40-foot lots are a product type that is conducive to

development here we can create regulations that outlaw them you've got it that's a it's a broader conversation because as you're res number in future land use gets higher and you want single family the lots have got to get smaller it's so if if you're giving them a res-9 and it's still going to be single family the only way you can utilize a res-9 with single family is narrower Lots so it it's a bigger question than just Loctite that is going to take some debate and understanding but you can but all of these issues that you see that you don't like unless the legislature preempts you you you can adopt controls in Your Land Development Mr Oakley all right the issue I want to bring up is we've already approved a lot of 40-foot Lots throughout the Canon if I'm not mistaken it aren't those lots 40 and 50s used in vo pH you're not going to go in there now and take those away they've got to have them yeah so everything in vo pH in that area is going to have those clusters and areas where they have those lots I did have a gentleman come to him the other day that had presented to us a 40 in pitchfoot live project that said he was moving that project to um they're rear loaded which I think is a better product of 40 and 50s and gives you more room and parking space for families in those kinds so that is coming in some of theopas because they just told me about it this last week so um we've got to do that but anything new I think we need to caution we've got a lot of 40s and 50s coming we probably don't need any more but yeah I really like for lots to be 60s and more especially in in your Northeast rural areas so be better Mr um you know when you have places like vop8 or we have on our side coming Newport corners and you have a commercial node which I don't want to be strip commercial it's got to be like vertical mixed use commercial um you know you do do density you ver you know you vary the density going out but that they have to have those special things around them to allow them to for us to allow that that kind of density to occur the oph is one of those places right Newport Corners is one of those places but anywhere in the county is not one of those places you know it's got to be because you're building a walkable Community to some cool right what's your word entertainment entertainment and and I I did say too to the gentleman that um who I think is doing a great job so far the one that's been buying up a lot of property and boph I don't remember his name

yeah he was showing all the commercial and he said well I'm not I'm not doing the commercial I'm doing the residential and I said to our staff our staff at my meeting with them please don't bring me regular strip commercial in a vo pH I mean that should be vertical mixed use in my opinion I'd give them more density if they put the shop you know right commercial residential above and cool shops below and um I mean that's what you're seeing happen in Saint Pete in Tampa and and I was just in Winter Park it's all over winter park with the shops Below in residential above and it was a great place to hang out so we just need to improve our commercial as well our entertainment areas right okay sounds good okay um so I was at the resilient summary Summit this past week it was great a lot of good environmental stuff a lot of construction stuff Mike thanks for sending sound so many team members uh while we're there we got to talk to Ed Sherwood from the Estuary get with him and Juanita and Alan and find out we've got our first baffle box coming in Wesley Chapel at Lake Saxon so it's going to be a nice thing and I'll tell you what the new Public Works first we have coming in with the experience he's got I'm really excited what he can get done for us um had a meeting last night at leisure Beach we talked about the restoration project coming up for the canals they're very excited about it the paving assessment looks like that mstu is going to be waiting until the following year as we work out details and there was a one of the projects just got a letter saying that they're going to start Paving next week it was El Sol court that was Hugh Townsend's property the project was like a five or six thousand dollar project and everyone wanted against it but we wanted to go for it I think it was fun as Bridge so they didn't want to see it happen until we had adopted so I talked to Ainsley about it he says I can switch to another project he's got like five other in the queue and that was one talking to you that we told him that in conversations you'll be on the list and you'll go right away but not until we adopt the other thing he's comfortable waiting I think his residence would be too because they don't want to go through that assessment they rather wait another year and get the uh the end of their other program well if I could since it's in a I mean that's an approved pvas right we've been directed to do and it and it falls so I mean if can I I'm fine pausing for the construction but it's still on the schedule can I get some board Vote or direction that so let me because I have a slippery slope so let me just clarify what we said to the people that we're going to be in the queue Israel pausing everything until we adopted the MS to you right we weren't because we're good we're going to get it adopted before we did any projects

now this is one project I didn't want to see it happen because of the high cost or the seniors a lot of them didn't want it to help a lot of them didn't but a lot of them aren't a lot of them are more reasonably priced than this one here well I think that anyone who is and I've talked to you about this anyone who is getting their uh pvas done this year as we're in transition in my opinion and I know you were going to bring this back to the board it should be phased out that there they shouldn't continue on paying that uh whole thing um and and because it's not fair for someone to pay 100 P Bass when everyone else paid 200. for me there should be a way that we taper off their payments um to where they're equal to everyone else and even someone who just finished paying their pbas should maybe get a credit for a year or something we have to be fair to everybody um I think as as we go into this transition from one to the other I think they are yes good afternoon Commissioners yeah so you know yes when we came before you no no no for the record just for the for the rest of the recording your name okay uh assistant County Administrator thank you [Laughter] all right so when we came before you uh with the MST you asked us for the pivas to continue the ones that you've already approved until we ran out of money so that is what we've been doing okay now with this particular pivas the Direction came to you you said we should continue uh if you don't want us to continue the work hasn't started yet it's on the schedule uh we can bring an agenda back to you to tell us not to do it all right and then we are going to stop that and something I like to say is regarding the mstu the whole idea some discussions that we've had is to if the MST is approved is to exclude uh the active what we call the active pivas okay so the ones that we are going to be Paving now you know on the uh on the fevers was the direction that you gave us to continue doing until we ran out of so any that you don't want us to do but what do you do you need to be more clear clear what do you mean by exclude okay the exclude means that if the MST is approved you are actively on the pivas they will see two payments on their tax bill right and the discussions that we've had one-on-ones was the suggestion was to exclude those that means that you will see only an MHP MST I don't I don't want to see that happen um I would like to see them pay maybe the first year and then say half the next year and then regular the next year there has to be a takeaway so those discussions we'll be having with you how we do that he said he would bring that back and hash that

out yeah it's just an idea we passed by you but we'll come back if you want to look at it differently we'll have that discussion when we come back it's like someone who had their pvas done this year and then they start paying the 200 next year no I think they should get an amnesty for years I'm sure well you know one of the complications is we do allow people to pay their pvases completely in advance yeah and so whatever the policy recommendation ultimately is we are striving for equity on that but I think Mr adamo's Point here at this point is that the board's Direction was to continue with those pvas until we ran out of money I got no no issue pausing this one and letting a few others jump ahead of it but we would like the board to essentially rescind that pvas then if you really want us to stop or stop everything I just want to I just want to stop this one particular I don't think you can do that I think I think we need to bring something back to you to vote on is like a bunch of other projects that can go they said right away so all this would do is just put someone back in the list until we figure out what we want to go do so move it back five in the list but they would still have to pay their P best because that's what we voted not until we haven't they haven't laid assets they haven't done anything in the project yet they haven't started the project I don't know but that just doesn't seem fair to me to do it to one and not done so so the one the commissioner is talking about is I believe like a five lot PVS that's like five thousand dollars a piece or six thousand dollars a piece little senior cul-de-sac and so I think it it's legitimate you could say there are others that would have that would benefit more people that are on the list if you think we can say that yeah but we'll have to bring an agenda again well you got to make it this no we're gonna do it make a decision today because they're ready to go next week so you don't have you don't have time we're gonna make it today no but all it is is just moving them back in the list until we decide what we want to do commissioner Whitman you all know better than we do but again for the second is I think we should probably bring an agenda item yes and do it in a more formal way yes so yes yeah because you authorize this through an agenda identity proceed so we've done this before we bring an agenda back to you and then we're going to say discontinue that I'll pause that however you want to do I mean you guys make the decision what projects you do anyway like could be like a little road could be this project here you guys make that call which ones you're doing as you're doing it this is just one that if you just move this one back until you bring something back and get another one going commissioner what my concern is is that we start changing the order and then I'm

going to have other communities wanting to change the order and be putting back at the line pretty soon everybody's in the back of the line and no one's in the front of the line so I would rather that the board officially vote to either suspend discontinue whatever the recommendation is for this particular pvas which point point well taken I just need some I want I would like some formality to it just to avoid I'm okay with suspending we'll bring something back if that's okay there's people okay but are you going to get started next week on it and then we we can suspend that we've got plenty we've got some others and okay we'll tweak it but we'll see okay you got to realize that there's people been waiting on their pbass and they've been held up and held up and they're ready to do their P bass so I think they've got a way that they can do their pbass start their their paying over 10 years not everybody pays it off right away but whatever would be normal for them to pay on the new system that's part of their pay just like everybody else but you got to move from one to the other and make it a very transitional move to where it doesn't hurt anybody right and we'll discuss that we'll make a plan as we go yeah we need a plan okay they're going to work on making it fair I guarantee okay all right Joanna do you have a picture for me up there yep so I know recently yes all right well that's coming up I'll talk about something else um I met with the folks at Shady Hills and a couple of big concerns come up one of them is with so many jobs coming in they're worried about not having a trail running alongside Shady Hills Road I know we're talking about it going forward with it one of the things I talked about with them I think I mentioned it I'm just going to cover it again as Pastor Jen is out here in the audience that we talked about looking at whether we use our Trail money or Economic Development money I don't want to slow down an industrial project from coming in Orlando's changed from that happening to get jobs coming but at the same time we've got to catch up in the infrastructure so this could be a road that's scheduled for 10 years down the road we can't wait 10 years we need improvements sooner I got that going on in Trinity that's a problem that's what I just said today is if you take that money you're going to take it away from other projects online wow so I think this comes back together I'm just saying but when we passed when we passed the economic development incentive one of the things I asked for was we could take the money and use it for that one of the things we did when we put the penny for Pasco in we put all the money was set up for Trails so this is a high priority project to make sure we're going to bring in a lot of jobs create that window you've got a venue to

use the funding for it yeah what I'd like you to do is ask that they bring back to us on what we can do the right way that doesn't hurt other projects yeah that's good so you know what I'm saying that's good and then again I had the meeting with the people and I'm relating this to you so well here we go another thing they have formed their Association they made a vote I had sent it out to staff I didn't hear anything back from staff so being that she's waiting here all day long she would probably want to hear something about it um about their civic association they want to get back and we've got to do that within 90 days of December but I think it's a conversation that should start sooner than later if you would Mike get that addressed so which Shady Hills Shady Hills civic association we approves okay I'll have my okay we'll reach out to you for details okay um got a call from somebody there's a veteran pinning ceremony coming up um not sure exactly everybody that's going to go there that just announced this to me today I said well if you send me a flyer I'll invite all the Commissioners there if you want to if you guys want to participate I've given you the flyer they've got a major general coming the colonel which by the way this is a the woman's military I think Day Women's Veterans Day so if you want to participate it should be a nice ceremony to do nice things down there so it could be a good thing for you the last thing I was going to do was show a picture of a flyer that I saw or email that I got about Trader Joe's they're bringing a fourth one to the region however it's not in Pasco County oh yeah so I was going to let you see the flyer first however so in in light of that after we had some conversations today what would the board think if we set up a letter two Trader Joe's sending that saying we would really like you to consider Pasco County in the near future only if it's on the west side laughs central location yeah well we know what's going to go in the southern region somewhere but anywhere it's a good place I know they have communities that do like sign ups and yeah right so I mean I I I I've said things on my own but I want to do it at this point when I saw that flyer I said oh sending me some someone's sending me some really good news and I go oh not what I wanted to hear so would the board be okay if we send a letter sure okay all right um anything else for the boys everybody know that us very sadly Congressman let's make a vote on that list sibling last week an unexpected heart attack 61 years old so we're in uh sent him yeah your condolences and I it's very very sad life is precious and I'll say um I went to the Tabernacle they had a Korean group that was there praying for

Pasco County uh the pastor Leonard Lloyd came to us about and uh while we were there I asked him to pray for our commissioner Bradford all right thank you thanks [Music] thank you [Music] in Wildlife depend on you to keep them healthy excess fertilizer grass clippings trash oils and pet waste wash into gutters and storm drains when it rains stormwater carries these pollutants directly into our lakes and rivers creating an unhealthy environment for fish waterfowl and other Aquatic animals storm drains are meant for clean rain water most other discharges are illegal if you suspect an illicit discharge please contact Pasco County Department of Public Works at 727-834-3611 [Music] foreign [Music] perfect [Music] foreign [Music]