2.07.2023 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Meeting (Afternoon Session)

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foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] private attorney client meeting to discuss litigation strategy in the case of Nikki Alvarez Souls Clerk and comptroller Pasco County Florida versus Pasco County case number 51-201 ca-2635-c-a-a-x-e-s Florida Circuit Court 6th judicial circuit has concluded and now I'll call back to order the Pasco County Board of Commissioners meeting of February 7th 2023 please silence all electronic devices in mutual microphones now we'll proceed with the public hearings with the county attorney please review the procedures for Arizona be happy to Mr chairman there are two reasoning agendas regular and consent staff will present each application to the board of County Commissioners if staff or Planning Commission has recommended approval and there's no opposition to the application will be considered by the board without further presentation if staff or Planning Commission is recommended denial or if there is opposition to the application the applicant will be given five minutes for presentation the opposition will be given three minutes for each individual or five minutes for a group representative and the applicant will be given three minutes for rebuttal any individual disagreeing with staff or Planning Commission recommendation or anyone wishing to object to any condition of the rezoning May at this time request the petition be pulled from the consent agenda in which case that application will be heard under the regular agenda later on during the meeting otherwise all rezoning applications on the consent agenda will be approved by a single motion and vote if you wish to speak to any petition please give your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn for the record these are quasi-judicial public hearings the law in Florida is from your public support or opposition of the application is insufficient for this board to take action please limit your comments to those criteria found within the board's Land Development code Madam clerk would you like to swear in the folks the Saddlebrook item is legislative you do not need to be sworn in okay so if you are here to speak to anything but the Saddle Brook item and need to be sworn in please stand and raise your right hand okay do you swear affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God

okay thank you when you do come to the podium to speak for the record please state your name address and state if you've been sworn for all those items except Saddle Brook okay today we're going to start with regular public hearing item p45 approval publication yes sir p45 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on January 29 2023. Mr Gary the present good afternoon Bob Gordon Pasco County budget director uh the item you have before you here is a tephra public hearing pursuant to section 147 F of the IRS code basically the IRS has established procedures whereby a non-profit organization can borrow money at tax exempt rates so the Cliff Notes version of this process is that Pasco County facilitates the process amongst all the stakeholders Moffett then goes to the market to borrow the funds the county at that point just acts as a conduit whereas the funds flow through the county ultimately to the borrower a couple of things that are important for our residents to understand first is that Pasco County is not borrowing the money and moth is not borrowing the money from Pasco County as I mentioned Moffat is going to the market to borrow These funds secondly of Pasco County is not responsible for paying off the loan Moffat is paying the loan from its share of the state cigarette tax revenues IRS requires that this conduit bond be approved by the County Commission which includes finding that the Moffitt project is indeed in the public interest and IRS regulations also require a public hearing so Moffat today is seeking to borrow up to 400 million dollars the purpose of those funds is to start the construction of its medical and research facilities at its Spiros campus in Pasco County we have a number of folks here that are available to answer questions for you if you have any there's myself Mr Stein Snyder's been actively involved in this project we have Duane Draper and Brooke Gonzalez from Brian Miller Olive representing moffatt and we have four representatives of Moffett itself here so we have David David de la puerta Executive Vice President general counsel Henry Reyes vice president partnership development Joanna Weiss senior vice president for finance and Jonathan Ruth capital and debt management director so Mr Mr chair if I may I'd like to open this up for public hearing and then we will be available to answer any questions after the public hearing okay all right let's go to directly to public comments anyone here from the public like to comment on this item Mr chairman I do not have anyone signed up no one signed up on WebEx no okay so we have no public comment we'll close public comment uh any questions for our staff I just like to thank Moffett it's a tremendous opportunity that uh you bring it to Pasco County and if this helps bring it home we're going to be

happy and happy to do that we greatly support what you're doing we respect it and with the Ledger you've chosen Pasco County second all in favor say aye aye any opposed nice and easy thank you okay today we have two public hearings on the consent agenda we'll start with continuance on p-46 uh p-46 was advertised in Tampa Bay Times on October 19 2022. good afternoon Commissioners Denise Hernandez Planning and Development p-46's PDD 23 7665 it's for it's a rezoning in the name of Rhema Investments LLC Apple Enterprises for a change in zoning from an R2 low density residential district to a C2 General commercial District this comes to you with a recommendation to continue the item to the 3 7 23 Board of County Commissioner's meeting at 1 30 in Dade City all in favor say aye aye any opposed okay and P-47 P-47 was published and advertised in the Tampa Bay Times on November 23 2022. p47 is PDD 237678 in the name of Margie a Tingley for a change in zoning from C3 commercial life manufacturing District to C2 Journal commercial District come see you with a recommendation of continuance to the 3723 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1 30 in Dade City okay move continues second all in favor say aye aye the opposed and next item p-48 and proof of publication uh Tampa Bay Times November 23rd 2022. Denise following item is p48 pdb 237606 this is a zoning amendment in the name of Angel Senior Living mpud master plan unit development District ASL 54 real estate LLC it's to rezone the property from AR agricultural residential district R4 high density residential district and see one neighborhood commercial District to an mpud master plan unit development District to allow the development of a maximum of 180 000 square feet of commercial and 181 000 square feet of residential treatment and Care Facilities on approximately 31.77 Acres this comes through with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet from planning and development department and the Planning Commission this was presented to the Planning Commission on January 5th 2023. does any anyone in the audience opposed to this item seeing no one leave it on consent item p-49 published in Tampa Bay Times on January 25th 2023. p49 is PDD 237652 it's a zoning amendment in the name of U.S 41 and shuttle Road mpud master plan unit development D.W Lester and Sons this is a rezoning request from an mpud master plan unit development District to an mpud master plan unit development District to allow the development of a maximum of 40 000 square feet of office 25 000 square feet of commercial retail and 341 multi-family apartments on approximately 17.086 Acres I do want to mention on this item that the resolution that was

attached was the incorrect resolution but that has been correct and provided to the clerk's office and also to the um hopefully to the to the chair for Signature in the future this comes to you with a recommendation of approval with conditions as included in your agenda packet and from both the planning and development department and the Planning Commission and this was presented to the Planning Commission on January 5th 2023. is anyone in opposition of p-49 there is no one signed up okay that is the consent agenda we'll leave it on leave them together does anyone have a motion to remove approvals can send a general second all in favor say aye aye any opposed thank you now we'll go to a large scale of comprehensive plan amendments p50 p50 was advertised in Tampa Bay Times on August 3rd 2022 and by Affidavit of site postings thank you Mr chairman Antonio spitos planning and development department this item is PDD 23009 it's a large sale scale comprehensive plan Amendment in the name of cpal 2206 Saddlebrook Resort and this is the general location of Saddlebrook within the county the star is a little off it should be on the south side of 54. um so the Saddle Brook Resorts MPD was approved on June 24 1986 and contained 530 so Acres which is before the adoption of the passport county comprehensive plan in 1989 the Pasco County comprehensive plan was adopted and it established the future land use map map 2-15 which envisioned the area for residential density not to exceed 6 billion units for gross acre and the MPD that was subsequently created was modified went or that was previously created I should say was modified one time in 1992 following the comprehensive plan to increase the approved commercial acreage by two plus acres for Sports Science Center that was proposed at that time that was never built the proposed amendment to to that is before the board of County Commissioners today for transmittal to Deo is to consider a PD plan development and it is intended to essentially clean up the conflict between residential use is approved in the mpud from 1986 and add a parcel that I'll show in the subsequent slide here Terry development when you say clean up the conflict between non-residential is approving the MPD what exactly are you talking about well right now the area is entirely red six so everything Golf Course all of the Resort amenities Etc all of it is red six residential and I'll say compatible uses with the red six I'm sorry aren't they all compatible uses in red six they have existed under uh the future land use since 1989. you know I mean we approved it or it was approved by previous board as such was there any problem that we approved what was approved

there are uses that are currently in the Saddle Brook Resort that typically wouldn't be found in a red six future land use um the proposed The Proposal here is to amend the future land use map 2pd for a portion of the existing saddlebook mpud area and to allow for a mixed-use multi-family development along State Road 54 and Renovations of the existing Golf Course Recreation Hotel uses that are that are there the location is uh at about State Road 54 and east of the service road um and then it's a there will be a rezoning associated with this uh in follow-up to any comprehensive plan Amendment uh that the board may have may approve uh that's running amendment has been filed concurrently with the comprehensive plan amendment to overlap and it is for an mpud so the following are policies uh that uh have been compared against the proposed use finding the proposed use to be consistent with the comprehensive plan supports use change consistent with the company's plan uh this is this area is uh located as a as I said on the south side of State Road 54 and approximately what will be eventually at one point the the south east corner of the new intersection of Bruce B downs and State Road 54 and that will be see if this works right about this location again so this is all located on the Southeast um and then the area in red is the subject property that the proposed comprehensive plan Amendment will be applicable to and then the additional parcel that's being added is this one right here located further east of the main entrance of Saddlebrook uh this is a an easier image to see the area that's subject to the proposed land use change so everything in pink is what would be PD this is the air the proposed area for land use change and we're showing the existing future land use that is currently overall uh all of the Saddlebrook area so this is showing everything in res six and then if a comprehensive plan Amendment were to be approved and the plan development would be applied this is what it would look like on the map it's everything in yellow then is the PD this is a a concept plan that illustrates some of the uses that are or the developed Redevelopment areas that would have some of the uses that they're proposing in the sub-area policy that's attached to the agenda memo this is area one located up here and this is where the mixed view strip reduction measure area is proposed to be which would be handled in the mpud discussions this is area two which includes a multi-family townhouse office retail activities this is the new parcel that's being added to the overall area these these two yellow and red areas here are area three in a subsequent

concept plan which I'll put up at the end of this presentation just so you all can see it this will be marked off as area 3A and this will be marked off as area 3B and then not located on or not shown on this map but located in this area here is the new location of the driving range and the new concept map will show that at the end of the presentation and then finally area four actually is I've lost my my little mouse guy but it's basically all of the golf course that will remain Perpetual series um the pointer all of that in between the PODS of housing Etc will remain Golf Course and so the recommendation for today is to authorize the transmittal of the proposed comprehensive planning them into the Department of Economic Opportunity and other reviewing agencies at the state level this is only a transmittal this is not a final decision from the water County Commissioners and then if we wait for just a second we will show the uh the New Concept plan on Terry if you would hang on that thought for a second wouldn't you say it's only a transmittal isn't this by sending it off to Deo that we're actually saying we approve it and we want you to check it over I would say no because the Department of Economic Opportunity and the other state agencies this is their their opportunity to provide comment back to the local jurisdiction to tell them what might need to what might what may need to be addressed from their perspective and then we would have to consider whatever they comment back to us and enter potentially into a dialogue with them to make any necessary adjustments and then following that once those comments have been addressed whether adequately or inadequately however they get addressed then it would come back before the board of County Commissioners to say do we want to adopt this so how often do you get comments back from the EO um we do get comments back I mean we we often send a lot of amendments comprehensive plan amendments to to Deo the vast majority of which we don't get many comments back but we do get comments from Deo encouraging us to look at things one way or another sometimes agencies like Florida Fish and Wildlife will comment um we do we do receive comments from the state but not on every project that like you said the vast majority you don't get comments back right um this is the a new concept map that had been provided to us that clarified uh some of the details that have been talked about at the local planning agency recently uh local planning and see meeting that happened in building at the beginning of January and you can see area one here some of the detail that's being provided on the concept plan here and there's a series of notes Here indicating where Gates will be Etc access to the new

road segment here that would eventually become Bruce B Downs this is area two over here with the townhouse is an office retail include that I was mentioning I should mention too that this is multi-family Apartments proposed on this concept plan with retail office along 54. here's the area 3A and 3B with notations off to the side that won't read from here and then finally the location of the driving range here with maintenance facilities that identified in parking lots Etc now Terry you said that that was shown to the Planning Commission no this is in response to comments from the Planning Commission for greater local planning agency not Planning Commission but the same body in response to some of the comments that they were making for having a little bit more detail on the plans it's Bishop Bradford thank you sir so the Planning Commission has not seen this map uh I would say this map reflects the planning commission's concerns but they have no questions questions they have not seen this map it's a PD correct I think not in the uh it's probably a hearing setting Terry well this I listen to the whole thing it was never said the driver was going to go there it was pushed off with no detail they requested the detail to show it where it would go and then this concept plan the applicant can probably speak to it more and be more articulate about the process that brought them to this depiction um but from uh from my recollection the Planning Commission was asking questions on Where the LPA is asking questions on Where the driving range would go and they were requesting other Redevelopment information and uh to my knowledge they were agreeable to presenting this to gathering this information and having it presented at subsequent hearings at the BCC but certainly when they would get another crack at it with the mpud when we have an MPD application we have a comprehensive plan isn't the concept plans but we started submitted at the start of this whole process yeah and and we received concept plans at the beginning of the process but it's a planning process so it's quite normal for projects to change over time and evolve to meet the different concerns and objectives that certain you know interested parties might have so one of the concerns that I have is the MPD parts of butts on Van Dyne on 54. one of the changes that happened when the first presentation of the Town Hall meetings they had which they did separately not in a group meeting was the property up on Van Dyne initially was going to going to connect with a trailer they've since changed that now with no change and there's no connection why would you include that in

the MPD seems like you could kind of make another conflict you're referring to the Van Dyne piece number two here right why would you include there's no connection there's no interconnection whatsoever it's a separate piece of property which has neighbors right beside it right that should be focused on exactly what's going to happen around them as opposed to Saddlebrook which is going to be internal and wouldn't really be a factor right why would you include that in this mpud that has no connection well I think from my perspective an mpud is ultimately a zoning district and if someone wants to apply to be part of a zoning District they can they can join the zoning District it doesn't necessarily mean that they join the actual development they can share in the same kind of uh say entitlements or in the same kind of dimensional requirements that a particular zoning District might have it'd be no different like if your neighbor was R4 and you wanted to Zone into R4 yourself in this case they're going to participate in the same kind of development standards and requirements as the rest of the area it's also owned by the same developer so rather than go through two different mpud processes you can go through one in the same so with two separate things let's face it when you get a piece of property that's right on 54 it can be looked at a lot differently because you're going to have the in and out is going to be just deal with the traffic it's going to happen right today you can do your own study on just that specific specific piece but when you have an mpud that's got a 36 hole Arnold Palmer design golf course with a driving range for the schools with all sorts of amenities inside that I don't know why you'd combine those two Mr chairman yep you know what's before you is not the mpud just what's before you is a comp a future land use map amendment to PD so you're making the making the comments that why would you included the MPD it it may very well be included in the MPD but I need to get it on the record that this is not the zoning approval this is this is a future land use map Amendment and it probably is appropriate for the larger future land use map to be changed all at the same time rather than come in with what probably could be done as a small scale Amendment on that piece up front on State Road 54. and a little bit with the land use Amendment it's something that staff really just looks at compatibility to make the approval correct yeah I mean that there's a little more that goes into it because of this future land use classification that we have called PD um

but if this was red six yes it would be is that is that future land use classification compatible what with what is next to it okay and the commission's got has the right to decide pretty much is it the right thing to do was cut pretty much falls on us correct ultimate authorities with this at the discretion of the Border cutting Commissioners okay and that'll complete my presentation okay any other questions for staff at this point um did you do a economic study on the on the resort the the Planning and Development Department usually refers economic studies to to with the we we have worked on economic studies but usually in tandem with the office of economic growth to do that okay so I think is David Engel in the audience so I asked Mr Wrinkle if he had done one and I'm going to let him respond to what he had to work with and what he found good afternoon Mr chairman and board members David Engel economic growth director for Pasco County thank you for calling me up chairman um I just give you a little history about a month ago the county attorney's office sent me an email suggesting that it would be a good idea to do an economic impact analysis and fiscal analysis of this project I've had some communication with mass Capital I've also had some discussions with a variety of homeowners that live on the premises and the study that I would be presenting would be more attuned to the mpud and we've started to do this analysis but we're not complete and we also wanted to address a number of questions we had and we've asked Mass to provide some information input number one what's the market plan for this who is the consultant what's the financial Nexus between the out Parcels on 50 54 and the internal Redevelopment of the site why would we construct you know what's the rationale for reconstructing the golf course and locating the infrastructure and common areas to the resort where it is now relocating the driving range so based on that we started looking at some work and I would tell you right off the bat that the Mass project has proposed has additional economic and financial impact and benefit to the county the commissioner that that asked me to do a study asked well what would be the impact if we can took the Garden Apartments and the townhouses and eliminated them from area one and replaced it with an equivalent full-service Hotel and the conclusion of this analysis using implan we modeled it using the input output data that we have which is current to our Market the the mass plan for for area one would generate ad valorem taxes net into the general fund of one million 459 thousand

dollars if the housing were to be eliminated the hotel option would generate 2 million 492 million dollars so the ad valorem tax pick up to the general fund converting the housing to a hotel is a 74 71 percent pickup on the contribution of the gross County product the mass plan would for area one would generate about 86 million dollars a year to our gross County product once it's completed I excuse me the the mass plan would generate 28 million dollars a year and the hotel option would generate 86 million dollars a year and uh so the Improvement on Gross County product contribution is 58 million dollars which is a 200 over 200 percent gain um so clearly utilizing a hotel on the premises is advantageous from a fiscal standpoint as well as a gross County product standpoint my recommendation is purely just on a vanilla standpoint it's it has nothing to do with the merits of the development merits of The Proposal location of of land uses and I've just begun speaking with the planning department and working with them in a collegial fashion to come up with a an optimized idn plan so I'm still waiting on mass to provide me with the information I would would add that if you are going to consider a hotel as a viable use in the comp plan that there may have to be an alteration to the transmittal to allow for that so um if you have any questions I'd love to answer them so I appreciate you doing the Apples to Apples comparison so it's real basic and simple just because you don't have the information to really do the full in-depth study where you don't know what the full plan is going to be but over a million dollars to the ad alarm taxes that means the taxpayers of Pasco County saving a million dollars and 50 million dollars of gross domestic we're not saving a million we're getting a million more we'll get a million extra revenue and we talk about it and the county the county economy will pick up an additional 58 million dollars a year doing the hotel option okay thank you for your help thank you sir appreciate it any questions for staff okay all right enough from the applicant I think they're looking for my PowerPoint Barbara Wilhite 6327 Grand Boulevard Newport Richie 34652 for the applicant I have Aaron Landry Jordan kornberg with mass Capital with me today Steve Henry our transportation consultant Justina Gale our planner and Bryce Swanson our golf course architect I thought my very basic beginning of the story here why are we even here and why are we amending this comp plan I just wanted to kind of point out high level here that we do not need to change the comp plan to add our 620 units to this project the comp plan already allows for a maximum of 1779 residential units which can be single family town homes and or multi-family

why we're here is because the comp plan is needed to allow for the resort and the commercial retail office uses the current residential land use conflicts with these uses you heard your plan director discuss that the complit also removes the residential uses currently designated for the golf course areas it is a cleanup we went into this I went into this with what's the call plan look like and how do we make the comp plan fit for this Resort in this area and that's why I propose to change the land use from res 6 to PD to achieve all those things but again for the traditional residential we do not need a comp plan Amendment it already is allowed by the comp plan but we do need a complement amendment is to clearly provide for those Resort uses that are open to the public to remove for the benefit of the residents to remove residential land uses from their Golf Course areas and one of the questions we get are there existing remain remaining and unused entitlements in the MPD again the MPD was approved in 1986 We've Ended one time a very minor Amendment yes there are existing entitlements within the walking Village you can see there the walking Villages the resort area Lakeside Village is the area where the single-family homes are in Fairway Villages where there's condos and there's commercial hundred thousand square feet is currently approved in the mpud the total new residency has proposed is 620 the ones remaining in the MPD is 232 so the difference is a 388 unit difference community outreach has been extension extensive of this for this meeting there were 17 888 Property Owners noticed both with community meeting notice we had a round of community meetings last week again more meetings and public hearing for this public hearing Community meetings were held in October November December and last week these were all the list of the meetings that started in in June and it went in through last week the last week ones complied with fully complied with the code regarding notice we would get ourselves in a position of how you have to notice a community meeting under the code versus getting the information out in a timely manner as we changed our plans we wanted to get it to the community as we change things we wanted to get into the community so the meetings in December my clients said I want to get the I want to do these meetings and I'm like wow you got all this you got this number of days you got to notice the meeting so my recommendation was them go forward with the meetings communicate with the neighbors and so we did that and we did again at the end of last week we had more meetings and those meetings last week you could attend in personal in person or virtually so there's been an abundance of meetings and opportunities for for people to engage and get

information and get up-to-date information a lot of different changes based upon Community feedback Redevelopment area four at one time was proposed for 60 single-family units and 100 town homes another change was a lot of this question of what are you doing what are you doing what are you doing and at a comp plan level we generally don't have a lot of detail at the comp plan when we do this so what I did was create take the I took the PD concept plan and created what's called a PD sub-area plan never done one before I never had to do one before never was asked for the level of detail that I've been asked related to this project so I created a PD Sudbury plan a PD concept plan is not binding this PD sub-are plan is binding it tells you a lot about what the development plans what's allowed in area one two three and four I created restricted area four which is all the existing Golf Course area and said exactly what is allowed to occur there and exactly what is not and what is not allowed to occur there right now all your comp plan tells you is it's approved for residential density so I've changed your comp plan for proposing to change your comp plan to be very specific going forward as to what can occur within those golf course areas that's an improvement for the benefit of the residents to have that kind of specificity and after the Planning Commission we were asked about area three broke those down into areas three and three a and three B they wanted asked if we could provide before we came here more detail and so we did that and remember all of these areas all these plans have were made available to the public to the to the neighbors and within and then all the neighbors within 500 feet of this boundary last week and we've continued to update them and had meetings along the way and we revised the mpud concept plan as staff showed you one of the other things is really an MPD level of detail has to do with the access at the existing entrance we are proposing to add another to Abdul less and then another and a right turn lane so that's an improvement we Steve Henry is here and we'll speak during rebuttal I'm sure more of an MPD level detail but we're just trying to get all the information out this is what I told you was The Binding PD sub-area plan I have passed that out to you so you can see that at a real-time scale it's in your packets it's called PD sub-area plan and actually has more details than this slide has because if I put all the details on the slide you would not be able to read them so if you look at that plan you'll see that and this is the concept plan became a PD sub-area plan you'll see exact detail with regard to area one and what uses can go there and what their maximum square footage is and their maximum number of units same thing for area two very specific got agadas I understand

your question for Mr Mariano chairman Mariano regarding this area this was owned by the Dempsey family it was acquired by my client and if I didn't include it I would be told I wasn't transparent and if I did include it I got criticized for including it so and I also want to point out that we had proposed a connection as required by your code here a pedestrian and bike connection which was pushed back by the residents and we've agreed to amend our plans and our narrative to not seek that very to seek A variation excuse me to seek A variation to not include that connection but our plans as submitted when we included this piece of property included a connection and then area three and four and then excuse me area three A and B and I'll go over what all those areas mean area one is a Village Center 3.486 it's to the it's the where the driving range is now it's designed to exceed the County's mudroom ordinance mixed-use Transportation reduction measures it's a very nicely planned out mixed-use pedestrian Friendly Village one of the nicer one ones I've seen restaurants with space with outdoor seating areas retail office space and multi-family Apartments 75 000 of commercial retail and office at that location 35 Town Homes 465 multi-family the multi-family have to be located behind non-residential land uses Along on State Road 54. that is your policy that you've adopted for other areas of State Route 54 that say that those residential uses need to go behind non-residential uses that policy does not apply in this location but we have I've made it apply in this location this is the modern plan these are the integrated vertically integrated mixed-use buildings here you have apartments in a pedestrian friendly layout these are the town homes this is the existing entrance this way is North when you look at this you generally want to go this way as North but that way is north area two that's the area that's being added that's a 19.52 acre parcel already has it has a res-6 land use designation on it we're proposing a maximum of 120 platted Townhomes to 25 000 square feet of commercial retail office again we're putting the non-residential against State Road 54 and the residential behind pursuant to the policy Direction General policy direction that we've heard the board of County commissions Express the only access is to State Road 54 as requested by the community that's actually an overstatement this area will have no vehicular pedestrian that'll actually be to your decision at the mpud at the request of the community I've added that as a variation to my MPD narrative to not have the required connectivity that your code requires so I apologize for that overstatement because that'll come to you with the MPD

and that'll be your decision to make but fulfilling our commitment to the the homeowners that asked us not to have a connection we have included that as a variation this is a from the concept plan that shows you the general configuration townhomes non-residential in the front area three and my team will go over area three and area four in a little more detail because in relationship slide for a second oops hold on show me the connection on that partial there connecting to the to the right side two along this eastern boundary yeah are you connecting to that piece of property it's right there on fronting 54. we are connecting to we have to connect up here there okay yeah because that's a non-residential use and this is a non-residential use area three my team's going to go through and explain area three it's related to the resort off the resort and and what they are planning to do at the resort so I'm gonna let them explain that they can explain those details much better than than I can do from a land use a zoning standpoint area four area four restriction has evolved as we have worked with the condo association and they have reacted to this language and said can you make this clear can you make that clear and that's why this language has evolved since the Planning Commission is because we have a group of of the board members which are here today I understand from the condo association have continued to revise what we can do in restricted area four this is the MPD concept plan that has the details at an MPD level that's why it's called an MPD concept plan um and you can see there's a lot of details on here this is a working document to communicate with both the county staff and mostly with the neighbors there are details on this plan over here about where Gates go and what kind of access it's going to be multi-use path there are level of detail on here that have been put on here to communicate and you can see this is all relating to the driving range which will really split separate presentation that will explain that to you but this is to communicate when people have questions and concerns we address them and we add them to this plan it's a level of detail that we never put on any Plan before the county but we have no problem doing that level of detail sure so the and my team can explain this better but the maintenance will go in the orange what's currently located here in this area we'll come over here that's sweet there is a cart Barn correct yeah the cart Barn again let me let me have my team speak more

intelligently about it what's interesting is that because of your vision Road here your vision Road app and wipes out their maintenance facilities now when you do that Vision Road it's unlike anything you've ever seen with all of the vision Road being on their property the vision Road in and of itself makes them remove that those facilities and this is the area where they're can put them there is a small shed storage area right here for this operation and they'll my team can go over that in better detail this storage was over here but we've had significant engagement from the condo association with these plans and they said no no we don't think that's a good location we've we evaluated with them moving it here and buffering it so these plans haven't just been done in our you know back room they've actually been evolving with the participation of the condo association do the people in Wiregrass really going to go to meet you back behind their property we noticed everybody within 500 feet of the boundary and they had their own ability to do a community meeting and attend in person or virtually okay is there any help and it's not it that is they can describe what that is that is where they put Turf and dirt and it's not the facility for cart barn but it is a it is a facility that relates to maintaining that driving range I will let them answer that and they will do a much better job whoever's speaking next on my team thank you um Jordan kornberg I'm with mass Capital managing director and head of acquisitions so I think it's important for everybody to remember what our ultimate goals are here and we're all aligned we want to make Saddlebrook a great Community for everybody we want to be a world-class Resort again we want to prop up The Golf Academy the tennis academy and really all existing components of that business are our Focus so we're not singularly focused on any one piece it's all important to us and it all is mutually beneficial uh just create jobs significant economic benefits for the county and enhances the existing residents of the community both from the offerings that they have to experience and and the values in terms of our experience uh you know both mass as well as our principles including myself uh have a significant experience across Florida and Nationwide operating owning and investing in high-end Resorts and you know high-end hotel properties so this includes some of those examples up there but cheek Lodge down in the keys the Conrad Hotel in Miami Little Palm Island in the Florida Keys Naples Grand Etc from a residential standpoint we're delivering very high-end luxury residential products that are an asset to the communities that they're involved in both for sale and for rent you know included on here is a project in Miami

Beach where we've set records for you know Miami Beach sale prices so I think it's important for everybody to know we're developing communities that are you know really an asset to everything around them in terms of our investment in Saddlebrook we're very committed to Saddlebrook and really the long-term uh you know benefit of the property in our 10 months of ownership to date and I think it's important for us all to remember we've only owned Saddlebrook for 10 months uh We've invested approximately five million dollars in Capital Improvements to the property you know unfortunately after 15 plus years of lack of investment uh that five million dollars doesn't necessarily show as you know uh really transforming the place I use the term drop in a bucket but five million dollars is not an insignificant spend and if we were not committed to the long term of Saddlebrook and the resort there was no need for us to spend that five million dollars it's been a long time since it's seen investment you know we didn't need to replace the roofs we didn't need to redo all the tennis courts we didn't need to improve the Landscaping fix the greens on properties you know we're doing all these things because we're committed to Saddlebrook and we're committed to the long-term benefit of Saddlebrook while we're doing this in the background and we've shared a lot of these plans we're working on a comprehensive renovation of the entirety of what exists today that is Saddlebrook uh I think as everybody knows it's a very expansive property so uh and you know with a with not doing a new build and renovating what's there there's a lot of time and effort that goes into it uh especially given the data this property but our plans involve touching everything that the eye can see meeting space food and beverage facilities Lobby pool guest rooms and really making it a comprehensive Resort that the Golf and Tennis Community continue coming back to the groups that historically came to Saddlebrook that mostly don't come back anymore will want to come back to and then there'll be a drive to Leisure customer that also wants to enjoy Saddlebrook which historically has not been a big segment of the business plan and best part of that too we're delivering a new members Clubhouse facility which historically hasn't existed as well and sorry lastly on that point we're paying for 100 of all the improvements in the public areas so none of that is paid for by any of the residents in the community any of the condo owners the only portion that is paid for by anybody other than Mast is the interior of the guest rooms which are owned by third party condo hotel owners although we are the largest uh we are the largest owner of rooms and so we obviously will pay our portion for the rooms that we own in terms of our team we've hired eoa which is a South florida-based interior designer they focus mostly on high-end

projects across Florida and the Caribbean they've done the one Hotel in South Beach the band in West Palm Beach which is a new build project I worked with them at chica Lodge down in the keys Conrad Fort Lauderdale but you know a top-notch interior designer that we have confidence and based on the plans we've seen will be available to bring saddleboard back you know we look at the regional comp set and all these properties are thriving right now you know Omni Amelia Island PGA National Marriott Sawgrass The Reunion Resort there's no reason why Saddlebrook should not be able to be compete with and really exceed these properties and that's what our plan takes us is for Saddlebrook to go head-to-head and hopefully out compete all these properties but today as a customer you're really not shopping these versus Saddlebrook and we want to make it that way again and in the past that's that's what Saddlebrook was we talk about tennis and we've made significant commitments to tennis as I mentioned we did all the tennis courts over at the Academy portion we've approved of redoing all the other Tennis Courts at the resort core we brought back Sean McQuillen who was previously the director of tennis and we've seen some big wins already on the back of that re-engage with some of the professionals who have interacted with so we did a nice shoot with the number 10 ATB Tour player which got Saddle Brook good press and it's really relaunching Saddlebrook back into the tennis community and then in January we brought back our first tournament uh in four years it was a 25 000 ITF uh pro circuit men's tournament and the feedback was great it was streamed globally we're waiting on the official rating but we were told that it was very well executed in the feedback from ITF was remarkable we've got more events coming back and frankly even since we put the slide together we've gotten more commitment from the USTA so putting Saddlebrook back on the tennis map is a very important part of our business plan getting into the details of our plan so as Barbara touched on this shows area 3A and 3B so uh in yellow is area 3A in Orange is area 3B so 3A is today 27 tennis courts and a surface parking lot in our prior plans this was all covered as one big area we split it into two areas because our plans evolved and we've had more detail behind it so our commitment to area 3A is that will remain as simply tennis courts and surface parking so no new development in place of where the tennis courts are today and what we've preserved is up 27 courts we we're gonna we're committing to maintain at least 20 of them we've built in flexibility we have some amount of quartz that we can take from tennis use to potentially pickleball or paddle tennis depending on what those demand needs are and up to seven quarts we can remove and replace with surface parking although frankly I don't think we're going to need to use seven but at this stage you know we we're we wanted to commit to

something that we knew was a worse case scenario um and no area 3B that's where we plan for our new members Clubhouse so that's a renovation of the existing buildings with uh an expansion in order to make it a competitive Clubhouse facility with Fitness use locker rooms Etc so that'll have food and beverage Locker facilities Fitness facilities uh outdoor dining pool area Etc and then we've also carved out what is here which is a pool and then we pickleball courts we just actually took two unutilized tennis courts and converted them to four pickleball courts we've carved that out of the area as well to ensure the preservation of those so this shows the you know the preliminary footprint of what is in area 3B oh sorry and I I'll go back Barbara had also mentioned a movement of the maintenance facilities to area 3B so area 3B today has a cart Barn as well as Resort maintenance we will continue to have our cart barn and Resort maintenance facilities here in terms of the larger maintenance facility uh this we don't have capacity in this area to move the larger Gulf maintenance here so the preliminary plan that we're exploring is the Grand Pavilion um which is sorry which is down here in the resort core it's a very large open exhibition space that doesn't have much to it that's where our preliminary plan right now is for that larger maintenance facility to go to it's away from all the houses uh it has good connectivity to both the resort and the gulf it's on the main road so for a lot of reasons we think that's uh actually going to be the best location for the maintenance the golf maintenance facility uh the the what was shown in area four ultimately that's going to be you know outdoor storage that's heavily buffered and landscaped and so it's we're not talking in actual uh building or facility there it's uh you know mostly going to be storage of materials so this back to the clubhouse and then this shows a 3D model of that area you know 3B and what the clubhouse is going to go and you can see where the fourth pickleball courts that we just added are on that plan so mostly existing buildings that get fully renovated with some expansion of of new buildings for the golf you know we brought on Reese Jones uh and Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones's team is here and we'll talk but you know Reese is a world-class golf architect who has it in his blood and lineage uh you know the golf business uh and we you know this is just some of the amazing courses Reese has done but you know U.S open venues PGA Championship venues Ryder Cup venues both from a new build course as well as a renovation of existing facilities so you know their their resume as a firm is is quite oppressive uh and we're confident that they're really going to deliver us a very high quality facility

that competes with anything around us the new driving range plan um so ultimately the course will be a 27 hole course with three nines uh you know we were sitting down with uh the rest Jones team today and so we don't yet have the full 27 hole routing plan to share but we are close um but the driving range you know the locations the southeast Corner uh which you know keeps it distant from uh a lot of the residential homes in the area and you know ultimately it's a two-sided range uh that you know meets the needs of both the academy members as well as Resort guests so all of the facilities that exist at the driving range today in its current location are replicated here and it meets all of our needs and then the 27 hole routing plan ultimately what we do know and we can commit to is anybody who has a home with a golf course View today will continue to have a home with a golf course View and that will be unimpacted and we touched on the deed restriction but you know we have agreed with the hotel Condo Association on the form of deed restriction and so we've worked with them over the last several weeks and that is our commitment to the Saddlebrook and you know we think it benefits the community overall but that's you know the only Association that's thus far has engaged with us but we've reached full agreement on that with them and that will protect us both into perpetuity so with that I'll turn it to Aaron Landry good afternoon Commissioners I'm Aaron Landry with mass capital thank you for your time I wanted to highlight some of the economic benefits of our proposed plan and I appreciate uh Mr engel's comments earlier and certainly look forward to hopefully sharing some of the information that we have with him to make sure he has everything he needs so the few the few of the aspects I wanted to focus on is job creation in particular the real estate values as well as some of the direct fiscal benefits so since Mass purchased the resort a little bit less than a year ago we've already added 100 jobs to the payroll and then we also commissioned our own study by a group called Miami economic Associates that do these types of studies that David was referencing all around the state and so we have based on our plans generated basically information that creates these outputs that I want to share with you and I think the highlights from this is the way to think about this slide and information is you have non-recurring which is effectively your construction period and then you have your recurring which is obviously post-completion and so when we based on our plans as proposed and Barbara had shared obviously the concept plan between all the areas inclusive of the resort renovation you can see that in using in fact even implant which is a proprietary software which is very

common in in David also referenced earlier that 2300 approximately jobs will be created during the construction period and then post completion approximately 700 jobs moving forward ultimately that generates uh significant obviously um dollars in terms of where those wages are spent if you if you could could you hang on that slide for a second yes just because you're touching exactly the same dad he was using I think he said it was like about 28 million dollars would be the GDP and I think that's your number 26. so what what were your thoughts when he made the comment he's going to increase the GDP by 58 million compared to doing the apartment complex and developments you're proposing as opposed to putting a hotel in so I'd say in terms of trying to create more value um we're all in favor of that I think to be fair we've not seen any plan or inputs based on his study we've done this based off the actual plans that are in front of you so it's it's sort of a it's comparing a hypothetical to what we have proposed and so I can't comment on something I haven't seen with I have no idea what inputs he he put forward to generate those numbers so so he asked you for information did you give him any information do you have all this and just didn't share it with him no so we provide I reached out to Mr Engel last week and we've had conversations prior to that to make sure we provide them any information he'd like we've shared information along the way in the past weeks significant presentations with a lot of this data and information this report was not complete in order to share this with him otherwise we would have we're happy to share it after to provide that information to him but as far as the plans that have been described and proposed and other information and details that we had we shared that information Nation with them prior to today so when did this get completed so this was completed on Friday in terms of having a having it having a version that we could actually so we have a Planning Commission meeting that's a recommending body to us to have data put in front of them they're supposed to get a whole concept plan including all these economic figures and you guys have it ready for Friday before we're going to see it I'm going to say his 58 million GDP higher than what you've got and as far as tax revenue for us I mean all this should have been looked at by us way ahead of time but go ahead again happy to share uh all this different information from Mr Engel um in terms of increased home values since we purchased the resort there's been significant increase in home values it's undeniable uh and 20 you just look I think the two takeaways are if you look at the number of sales in 21 versus 22 and mass purchase the resort and you look at the actual increase in values it's significant almost doubled there's been no reason for a change in the the values of the the units at the resort

other than or but for basically word of mouth and the fact that mass has put forward plans for the resort the resort has been on a path of decline it's been lack of investment there's been no reason uh logically that the values would change but obviously folks are benefiting and we haven't even fully executed our plan simply five million dollars invested thus far so just just to be clear you're saying because of mass these values have gone up hasn't been the market itself how does the market compare to what your values have gone so that's actually a good point so the way this is broken out too is the top is the resort which is the kind of Hotel units the bottom is Lakeside so just by pure analysis the top being the condo you're seeing Lakeside which is a traditional unit you can live in the unit you know full-time the kind of Hotel you cannot so you can see the the the the increases in the Kanda Hotel almost 300 percent increase in certain instances you compare that to the bottom chart which is much more I would say typical of a traditional obviously uh real estate value for a home you're seeing approximately 35 increase there so it that's an indication that again Mass hasn't renovated the resort of any great extent other than the 5 million we put in and that's just the beginning but that goes to show you kind of what I'd say is the the hyperactivity that's clearly associated with the plans that mass has put forward for renovation of the resort and investors taking the opportunity to try to have some upside and get in early that's that's it's a classic example of that I recall seeing an email from a lady who I think had bought one of these for about 260 000 maybe 360 thousand dollars and is that one of those units that went down what we're talking about from as low as from 11 to 35 000. I have no idea what what unit you're referring to I'm telling you this is we can we can obviously go back and try to find the exact exact transaction but I'm happy all right we'll wait to hear from the people um so just one more question with these units here what did they generally sell for maybe 10 years ago five years ago any idea five years ago I don't know but I wouldn't but I think it's clear from 21 and the resort has been on a path in terms of valuations going down to see them jump and double in 22 when nothing's changed it's it's inexplicable from a real estate perspective on a purchase basis does Mass have the first right of refusal on these walking Village Condos so Mast has a right of first refusal I think the key to understand is that does not mean that the person has to sell their unit to Mast so if you or if you own a unit and you have another buyer and they're willing and that buyer is paying a higher price you don't have to sell a mass you take the higher price so you're not being harmed as an owner no but you but Mass can buy it for the same price that the other person is being offered a

sale for you can match that price so match can Mass can match it and then buy it we could match it but if you get a higher offer you know you're not obligated to sign no but you have first right refusal correct which is pretty typical of a kind of Hotel structure okay so how do we inherited how many of these have you bought in the past year today 22 22 22. thank you uh in terms of the bed tax I'll just highlight briefly here um again in 21 the bed tax was that was generated by the resort was around 200 000 since Mast has taken over um that tax has increased by about a hundred thousand dollars clearly um I think that's again partly due to good operational uh expertise and changing over the team and staff and implementing new policies But ultimately I think the bigger uh the bigger takeaway here is the potential uh to generate significantly much more embed tax uh through the Implement excuse me implementation of our plan uh as discussed earlier then if you'd stand that slide for a second as well yes when you get to the point of having all your data together what you have for Mr Engel as well do us a comparison as well like he did show us what the tourist development tax would be revenue-wise if you've made them condo hotels as opposed to Apartments okay thank you in terms of direct fiscal benefits um this is again associated with the overall proposed plans for the new development areas only so this is not information related to the renovation so generally speaking these numbers would actually be higher if you included that portion of renovation work but the point the point is in terms of overall fees that would be paid associated with the new development that's approximately 7.6 million dollars and then on a go forward basis just for the residential components that we had shown on areas one and two we have that estimated at approximately two million dollars again that does not include what would be the retail and office components that we had shown in our proposed plan so that two million dollars would be ultimately higher and then lastly before Jordan comes back up just wanted to highlight these are meant to be what I would say is inspirational images they're just again these are not these aren't a these are not mass owned properties but in terms of trying to give a sense of sort of flavor and direction if you will for the Town Center concept uh here's one which is the square in West Palm Beach uh and then a second one here which is the village in Leesburg Virginia again not to be uh that what we intend to do is precisely or exactly as that but it's meant to be more of a sense of um sense of direction or intent with the Town Center concept with that I'll let Jordan has a name for that what's your what's your name downtown oh that's interesting entertainment

[Laughter] thank you so we just wanted to walk you through some of our plans but real quick before that um when we talk about 500 new hotel keys on the you know Northwest portion of the site what we inherited was a 500 room roughly hotel that sits largely hey Jordan yes um you're out of time I know I've asked a few questions which is okay so I'll give you extra time but can how long do you think you'll need to wrap it up so I only need a few minutes we were going to have Bryce Swanson from Reese Jones team speak uh who was planning on five minutes as well so I think with seven eight minutes we could get through the rest okay um so we have 500 Hotel keys today that's it largely vacant they're running 20 occupancy we inherited the resort we have a lot of condo hotel owners who have economic interests are aligned in that Resort so I just want to make clear before we add 500 new hotel keys to the property we have roughly 400 Hotel Keys a night that sit vacant so we need to focus on filling those 400 Hotel keys that sit vacant before we add 500 more um and so in terms of our renovation plans as I mentioned really everything the eye can see gets touched so enhancing the arrival experience that's an image of it adding a new Fountain and you know Landscaping obviously all throughout the resort new coffee bar and Marketplace in the lobby you know lobbies are generally places to meet uh today and places to interact saddle Brooks is very transactional so creating this will really enhance that whole Lobby experience and make it aligned with most Resorts today you know taking what is today Dempsey's 2 and really making an activated restaurant and sports bar concept uh you know we have a shuffleboard and pool table areas shown there significant capacity enhancing the seating and then really an indoor outdoor connection you know that outdoor area overlooking the 18th green of a saddleboard course is truly beautiful and there's no seating there there's no activation it's really activating that area we think will benefit everybody specialty restaurant this is today where Tropics is really making it you know a high-end three meal fine dining execution and then this is a rendering of ultimately our guest room product um you know the the guest rooms are in dire need of renovation the entire Resort and Dyer need of renovation and this will bring the product up in line with those competitive Resorts we talked about and really bring saddle work back it's just another rendering of of the guest rooms and so ultimately you know our plan is to enhance Saddlebrook we've done a significant amount of that to date as I share it as Aaron shared and this is going to benefit the overall community so you know I think it's important for everybody to remember that

and with that Jordan a question for you yes you say your occupancy rates 20 when we inherited the resort it was 20 it's ticked up since we've owned the resort um just based on some sales strategy but it was running roughly 20 occupancy when we inherited it okay and when you took it over February correct and that's a TTM trailing 12-month annualized number so no seasonality or anything in that so let me ask you this with you have the right to make these people renovate if you choose to correct we do not have the right to make them renovate they have to choose to renovate they have to choose correct um that's different one of the contracts I read but I'll wait to hear um so so they can if they don't renovate it to be in the rental pool they need to be up to standards which is typical of condo hotels we can't force them to renovate um so ultimately it's their choice whether they renovate or not um and you know when you develop standards it's then a question of rental pool partition participation versus not all right so 20 when you took the over it's up now what is it now 34 okay and do you remember what it was the year before when you guys first started looking at the property what those numbers were eighteen percent okay thank you question thank you commissioner waitman sorry I was waiting I've been making notes if you've been going along because these rental standards y'all the mass set the rental standards there was like part of any County ordinance code that sort of thing it's Mass standards that doubt third party owners that aren't masks if they choose to renovate obviously I would think they can make that decision in due time is there a timeline uh approximate budget if they want to renovate it do they have to use the mass contractor not necessarily know if that's the role the county really understand the detail on the questions but it's our job to ensure that ownership and public benefit quality of trust is there too can you answer those questions absolutely so ultimately we're working on finalizing you know we've shown the renderings we're finalizing a bid package to have pricing on it um and you know ultimately we will then go to owners once we have all that buttoned up to say here's the cost and even beyond that here's our project projected pro forma here's the here's what the revenue will go to if you renovate them where we think operations go and this is what the return on your vest investment will ultimately be and your payback period uh and you know in terms of payment timing um you know that's also going to be something that we're going to look at in terms of people doing it on their own ultimately there's going to be a significant benefit through Contracting them all together and significant benefits of

scale uh so you know ultimately I think the the idea would be that they would all go through our contractor from a resort from an execution and Logistics standpoint um it's it would be you know frankly very difficult to have 300 different contractors you know running around Resort and you get the benefits of scale you learn from the model room project so ultimately the idea would be that we would contract it all for the benefit of of everybody and everybody would get the scale savings that you get from buying 500 times versus once and are you putting them on the clock you put in a Time expiration for those that still own third party are you putting them on a 90-day six month like is there a is there a time frame in which they have to come into the no ultimately if somebody decides down the road obviously you know we're happy to then renovate their units in the future so there's not going to be a ticking time where you need to come in by the state there could be an additional cost though if you don't you know when we ultimately book buy there's lead times and all the stuff things are ordered in bulk so if there's an owner who chooses not to renovate and then a year later wants to renovate we're very happy obviously to coordinate that and do it it just might cost a little more ultimately to buy things one off so then who markets the say non-renovated condo so the non-renovated condos ultimately you know through the condominium documents and everything that exists those determine but you know what can be done with it and you know they can be used as as a residence you know there's certain limitations obviously in terms of you know what what what those units can and can't be to protect the resort um but any you know they're on their own to do what they want with with their unit So within the within the documents when a customer comes into town and they choose to say a saddle broke they can go online assuming they go online and choose what you know they want a a room that's been remodeled and renovated and then versus an old one you're those rooms that say that third party owns they'll have the ability to still Market their room and collect Revenue right or will those be pushed to the bottom of the pile and all the shiny rooms be set for sale so for short-term rental it needs to be a part of our rental pool so you know nightly nightly rental as a as a hotel would go through our rental pool but obviously there's you know they can use their units they can do longer term rentals on it but short-term rental is restricted to the the resort you know owner so Nas is going to ensure that the folks who may not necessarily choose to renovate their condo right away will have the opportunity still have their room to collect Revenue all for that of course no listen we obviously can't restrict anybody from accessing their units it's you know they own it they have a contract with us if they no longer have a contract with us

it's it's their unit we no longer have rights over it are we still doing questions thank you for that thank you so back to the I think Aaron showed a slide that said 38 million and local job creation with construction companies are y'all bringing in and you know out of Tampa Bay is that is that contractor chosen I mean is it coming are those are these jobs that you're going to be paying which is great are they going to be paid tonight this will be local Contracting opportunities associated with it or is mass have their you know their preferred contractor that comes in from wherever and that's that's kind of how the 38 million is figured because I kind of look at that as that doesn't necessarily stay in Pasco County that figure may or may not be Fair on an economic that's it's a fair good question um ultimately you know it'll be a combination uh you know I'd expect we always try to work with local groups where we can especially in a subcontractor Community uh you know I'd say a lot of the subcontractors ultimately are local uh you know contractors we'd look both locally and for you know larger more more Statewide groups so I'd expect there to be you know some combination of of local and outside but definitely not all outside um but you know we also can't commit that it would all be 100 local thank you um to area one in our planning process do we have any comp I mean I've always I've been open with concerns of traffic do we have any comments in the plans from our Sheriff's Department those on the record because they're supposed to make comments on it and I say that out of concern of half dozen or so red lights from the interstate there are comments within your agenda memo they're not very helpful in terms of well that sort of information that it it's it's this what I saw the was the standard Sheriff's comment is that they are 64th out of 67 counties I mean it doesn't give you it shows that there's a concern from law enforcement it doesn't really ask you to do anything in my my point to that is is that type of detail on a project like this is important especially in the congested area commissioner Starkey first you better end up all right ahead sorry um thank you uh so first um uh I got some emails that entered uh suggested that my son is involved with your project uh where she was but um Wheelock Street Capital is not involved in this project correct and um but I know from my son and you all know his company did um Starkey Ranch that uh they had been they had been contacted by many groups who were looking to buy Saddlebrook but they passed and I know even Tom Brady's was

in on a deal to purchase Saddlebrook um and that that didn't come through so within a group I'm personally very excited that someone's willing to invest and bring the Saddle Brook back up to where it used to be it's interesting I'm looking here and there are a lot of homes in Saddlebrook that are on VRBO so um I don't know how that works with our short-term rental program that has only about six legal homes in it but this is another reason why we have to fix that ordinance so these people can rent their properties legally because right now you can't rent on Airbnb or VRBO except for about six houses um so uh I just wanted to touch on the subject of having to update your condo to be in the pool and I I like to travel and I stay in a lot of vrbo's condo hotels and others and I I understand the reason why they want to protect their new name because they're trying to Brand Saddlebrook as a five-star Resort and if you go and you stay in a outdated room it's not going to reflect well on the new brand they're trying to bring to the county so my son's company has purchased a resort called Southeast Plantation some of you may know it download same exact thing if you want to be in the new upgraded rebranded Resort you're gonna have to upgrade your product to fit with what they're trying to promote and and so I mean the surprise you're allowed that there's other sales allowable in the community um because you know you someone rents something with a broken couch the oven doesn't work or whatever then you start getting bad reviews tough to overcome a bad review so I I understand what they're trying to do on their rooms and um I'm not going to get into all the other stuff until we're done with presentations I just wanted to touch on that aspect of how these operate okay Mr Bradford thank you for your presentation you can correct me if I'm wrong but I made a note that you said when your statement was that uh if you have a golf course view under your development right now you maintain that Golf Course be is that correct correct okay um if you have another part of your team speaking yes Ray Swanson while he's coming up I want to remind you when we had the governor at Saddlebrook okay so he left early because it was so hot in that room because the AC didn't work do you remember how hot it was I think the whole flooring cabinet I couldn't think they need so we need a new air conditioner in that big room uh chairman and board good afternoon thank you for your time I'll go quick my name is Bryce Swanson I'm a vice president vice president senior designer

for Reese Jones Inc we're based out of Montclair New Jersey but we actually work all over the world in the U.S predominantly from that standpoint those who are golfers perhaps in the name in the audience might recognize the name Jones Reese is actually the son of Robert Trent Jones senior who is a famous American golf course architect uh Rhys and his brothers started out learning hand in hand from his father and ultimately he went out on his own uh as I mentioned we've worked on over 240 projects completed throughout the U.S overseas we're also all members of the American society or Golf Course Architects that's why my jacket on uh from that but some of our projects uh they're varying scale uh we've done anything from municipality public golf to Resort golf and then to private clubs but we've also had the opportunity to work on a number of the U.S open venues PGA championships Ryder Cup venues to prepare those for those special events in Florida we've actually worked both courses for the breakers over on the other coast we've done some work further south down around Naples Bonita Springs I myself just finished up two over in the Palm Beach area from that so we're used to the conditions or the environment here but when Mass Capital approached us uh our job once we first came out was to evaluate the existing golf course and as you've heard today one of the concealer items being concerned is the relocation of the practice Fairway the practice Fairways located up there in the kind of the very northwest corner up by the inner the highway 54. did I get that correct um and just from a logistics operations standpoint it's substantial distance so to make all the pieces go together with the Redevelopment and to bring Saddlebrook back ultimately the item they asked us to take a look at was relocating the range what we focused on after studying the entire property was the southeast Corner which is currently made up of Palmer number one Palmer II uh polymer 1670 a number of holes there we settled on that area because it gave us the greatest space to build a state-of-the-art practice facility not only for the members in the guests but also to grow the golf school back into what it once was the golf schools dropped down in the number of kids who actually attend down into High Teens were back in the day I was up in the 20s from that standpoint this slide right here with the white line around you around it highlights the area that we've focused on to create the new Range practice amenities that all go with that short game areas for not only members in the resorts but also for the golf school um this right here is the preliminary concept that we've developed something similar to anything we build at any other high-end Resort private club but it has the capabilities to allow members to use the West corner of the range don't know how to uh but that's the

closest piece closest to the pool as you're looking at it uh Resort guests and members would have a quicker access to it the further uh corner of it to the east would allow the golf school academy to have same components that they currently have but actually give them more state-of-the-art bring it up to kind of the current industry and where things are going uh with that we had to take into a different account safety setbacks everything that we look at in terms of the setback so we've found plenty of space to set it back from one end one end of the T to the other end of the T we're at 365 yards from that with that just to kind of hone in or Focus if somebody now is coming to the range you can see we've repurposed what was Palmer number 18 green into a short game area where players could kind of work on their game a little putting green for them to warm up we have found some additional uh parking which is currently on the existing polymer number one tee so if there was a need for additional parking spots we have found a spot we've created a space for the Turf Nursery green from that and then as you move through it the range floor is designed such to allow people to maximum practice experience to really work on their game but the beauty of this spot is we have nice setbacks from the surrounding development properties down to the South the surrounding condos and that and then it was touched on earlier the additional maintenance storage just to clarify again it's not actual a full-blown building or anything that it's nothing more to a certain extent of a concrete slab with some bins which are concrete walls six feet eight feet in the high it's just somewhere where they could store some of the materials that they periodically use out on the golf course like the Bonkers sand top dressing sand maybe it's the spot too where the ball picker and some of the equipment used to clean up the range gets kind of housed they wash stem balls those type of components but the full Golf Course operation the site is being considered as the old Grand Pavilion on site with the idea of repurposing that uh to give everyone clarification too the back portion of the range is set up not only for the idea of the golf school academy but then two for the ability of the members to be able to go down there get away from people to really work on their games uh maybe something too for the resort to grow more of a one-on-one teaching or golf school academy for uh people who come to the resort for an extended period of time there is a proposed building structure at the very back of the uh the practice Fairway for the golf school it's 40 by 60 feet the idea of that is restroom facilities for the students teachers controlled environment in terms of AC break room somewhere to go in actually watch some video break down their swing from that and then with that additional components putting green short game

areas a space where everyone could really use and maximize their experience uh with that this is just again overall uh the rework of it it does require us to fill in and relocate some of the water usage preliminary conversations with the engineer and also based on my past experience in Florida uh those are all things that are doable uh it just required to go through the proper channels as it relates to permitting in the process from that but there is a small pond being proposed to be filled and then uh certain ponds being reconfigured in the lighter blue the dark blue indicates the current shapes and with that uh uh question for you so you're going to be taking up pretty much one two 16 17 and 18. so polymer of course the old style of course kind of a lynx course that goes out financials keeps on going comes back in for 18. where are we going to have the First Tee for this new golf course sure um so on that uh one of the things that I didn't I didn't go into is the current state of the golf course um you have exactly you have the Saddlebrook the original of course is a nine hole Loop kind of returns back to where the pool area is from that the polymer is one long continuation what we've developed right now preliminary on paper and we're just not ready to present because we need to check some things but the new configuration would be actually the Palmer holes would get reworked everybody who has golf outside their backyard would still have golf from that we're not taking away any of the golf from that uh what we're going to do is actually break what we looked at is breaking some of the front nine of the Saddlebrook layout holes one through nine to allow us to rework a configuration for a new nine that uses two of the existing Saddlebrook front nine holes with a rework of seven holes of the polymer course to get us three nines that return back to the pool area so from a resort operations standpoint and also from the members we'd be able to provide them with three nines that are equal in yardage par 35 or par 36 but a similar level of tests to go so it was the first tee going to be how do I use so the first I don't know if we have so the all right so right now this is Saddlebrook hole number one right here the green with the sand around it that's Saddle Brook number four ultimately this would be hole number one hole number nine and what we'd be proposing is using Saddlebrook hole number five as the new start for the the new nine 18 holes of Nine and Nine out right if you disrupt one and nine what are you going to do for the other so balance of that Golf Course makes no sense no no no it it it it does yeah I

wish I wish I had the full drawing but so if you if you know the course and you remember how it plays in theory you'd play Saddlebrook number one you'd play Saddlebrook number two and then you would go over and you would go down the road and then you'd hook into some of the Palmer holes ultimately you'd come back and you'd play Saddlebrook number four and that finishes nine holes the golf if you're going to play call it the new nine holes which is made up of some of the Saddlebrook holes and the Palmer you would then come over here you'd pick up Saddlebrook number four you'd play number five coming down you'd play a new Gothel shaped in here from that standpoint you go around the corner here and then you hook into the Palmer holes that are make up that and then ultimately you come back around and the new finish would be Saddlebrook number 27. there's Saddlebrook number nine that's just so many Saddlebrook number one the new Saddle Brook number one I'm not done yet what it's not going to be easy I'll wait on it show you the new Saddlebrook yeah I mean you just took out number one and nine of Saddlebrook where's it gonna be where's the new number one and sell them we're gonna make so ultimately it becomes three nines that are one through nine ten through 18 and 19. number one gonna be so Saddlebrook number one would still say stay as hole number one or Saddle Brook number one you just said that was gonna be part of the poem I think I need the overall map I I think I'm making it a little confused I've seen a map at some point in time right I know you're new into it because I know they worked with Palmer before and some other ones too so I know you do into it but again we're looking at things but what's going to happen and I'm trying to look at some of the things you're saying I don't see how you break up the Palmer Course the way it's set without really doing some major shift the Saddle Brook close to be kept in place and it's hard to do anything else because it's just loaded with Cypress I'm gonna talk now when I look at you say it's going to be nice for the people to be able to go where hole number two number three is when they go to the practice range over there and be in a nice quiet place to go guess what the practice range right now that sets out over on 54. it's a nice quiet place to go practice and beside it the students can go practice so why do we do all these changes put all this Construction in changing the pawns changing elevations all the way through here going through all this construction these people got to live through why can't we just work to go and prove what's there which is a pretty good facility some say and then

you know keep this in place because that I mean I'm apartment designed two pretty pretty really good glasses why would you go through all this so other than make money to make fun so I I don't think it is [Music] don't do that I don't think I mean from that standpoint I we don't have the slides we didn't want to take up everyone's time I think the reality of the place is it goes back to 1970s and then you have the Palmer work that occurred in the 80s you throw in the number of years of neglect of no money being put into the golf course to repair any of the parts out there Golf Course is like no different than your house or car so the pieces have started Fallout the reality shows the rounds have dropped the average rounds right now are somewhere 36 to 40 000 rounds if you do a comparison to what other golfs have been doing in recent years and covid was a big boom for golf but I have I know of other facilities that a typical 18 hole 18 holes in Florida have been doing anywhere from 50 to 60 000 rounds with a limited membership the rounds have gone down in terms of what they're able to charge from a resort standpoint the golf course is in dire needs of a repair it's reached a point that you can't just put a Band-Aid on it so we've got to a point now where pieces are broken car paths are falling apart the drainage system doesn't work the irrigation system's on Band-Aid on Band-Aids things that need to be repaired so with that I understand the going all the way up to the range is you know it is quiet to a certain extent if you want to say I would come from a golfer's standpoint that outside of living there in the community if I was a resort guest I have to jump in my cart I have to drive over 4 000 some feet I find that a little disconnected it doesn't match up to perhaps some of my other options out there but then two taking a step further you have the golf course the original that goes back to the 70s Technology's changed for some people it's a fair fun you know Golf Course experience I think for other players it's no longer that I think the conditions have suffered greatly there's points in time where the saddle course has to close during the rainy season Late July to early October so there's a major work that needs to be done and what we've advised the client to just go ahead and put things back is more of a short-term fix it doesn't really address some of the issues in terms of the original design or even the polymer design as it relates to options from the green surfaces or components like that well you spend a lot of time out there on the course recently I made sure I played it a few different times especially when I heard how bad the Saddlebrook course was so I played it right after hearing that at a public meeting I went out to look and play it it played great

they played the palm of course before that had played great I happened to be out there Friday during the storm that was going on and from the storm that was going on the water that's there it was it was raining down real hard as those films were bands were coming through but you could see the drainage working to where it went and by the end of day pretty much there were some wet areas obviously but the courses drained well could it drain better absolutely what's happened over the years I think you'll know is you can drive some drive down some of these car paths you go look the drains coming in the dirt where it's supposed to go into is higher than the car path what's going to happen it needs to get cleaned out it's it as We Know It's gotta it needs a lot of Maintenance but I don't think you just rip this whole thing apart changing this whole thing and going from the south eastern part of the course to go put the new range to take it from the Northwestern part of the course there's any bit of an answer you've and then you're gonna have to go do a lot of changes to make this whole thing go and then take from a 36 old golf course and as a golfer if you went to a place and you're going to take let's say group go with a group of guys you're going to want to play 27 holes and kind of mix them up would you have two 36 hole or two 18 hold horses to go play What Would you rather do I want so for me I want the best golf and I would say currently what's there right now hey it's a one-time stop as it relates to a resort guess with all the new developments that have come online from that I think it's a beautiful sight I think the setting of you know the Saddle Brook horse is something unique and different I think the Palmer Course they moved a lot of dirt to a certain extent but I feel like it becomes redundant so I'd rather opt out for the best golf course whether it's 27 or 36 okay my question deals with the the fact of the going from 36 holes to 27 I've heard in past that uh 27 holes managed properly can do as much work I guess as a 36 Hole Golf Course is that true or it so it's not a hundred percent in terms of matching but it gives you the capability to get somewhere around 75 to 80 percent of what you were of the four from that okay yeah my problem with golf is after I hit it I'm still standing too close to it so I go from there but um I think the redesign of some of that and b-27 hose can fit that Community because I don't the resorts as we've seen them in the past especially Saddlebrook uh back in the day when it first started it was a tremendous Resort bringing a lot of people out of the Northeast and a lot of that kind of activity coming to Saddle Brook has kind of died off but I look forward to seeing a new beginning of something just as great as it was in the early days so I just want to add one thing to properly fix this golf course it's

like again the comparison to when you're going to renovate your house or you know honestly some point your car like the engine gets so old if you do normal maintenance on it and you replace the tires you do all the oil changes you change the fan belts you do all that you can prolong the life I hate to say it the reality here is the golf courses two courses that have been severely neglected over the years and the attempt to try to fix it does require a certain amount of work so I understand you know how big of a scope but I think that's part of us is to be able to develop that final plan to show people what perhaps it could be and to give them an idea all right well I'm going to disagree with you okay uh playing that Golf Course right now the courses in the greens especially a fantastic shape as good as I've seen them for you for maybe ever so as far as knocking the course right now and just like one of the other people that owns a property right now tried to knock it earlier I don't know why but I'm going to tell you that course is well designed it drains well if it's maintained but when you have all the wet areas that have all the silt that's all grown up and never been cleaned out it doesn't get the chance to drain as quickly as it should or could but all the stuff the infrastructure is there now maybe it needs newer infrastructure to be put in place won't argue with that maybe it doesn't because if the silt's in there and has it stuck in the pipes and so be it but when you have your Wetland areas at higher than with a car pass out and where the wall is supposed to drain and if you look at the maintenance even though they've had it for eight months now nine months you can go right down by the First Tee or the 10th tee at Saddlebrook you can go look in this pine needles all over where the drain's supposed to go right from the right from where the apartments out of the the Condominiums are taken in through so even with what they've done for maintenance hasn't been good and when you showed that cut over from number four to five they replace the sidewalk there I don't see any pipe that was connecting the two ponds I got to think there was one there before no there is but it's just thank you all right any other questions no Mr chair but this can be a long meeting so I'd like okay well get questions regarded questions um I'd like to ask um if you would come back up again not you I'm sorry um Jordan showed a picture of a lot of high-level developments that you guys have done multi-story structures Etc so I know looking at your website even before you show this that you can do that type of thing Pasco County we like to get good things to come to the county I mean we're working hard at every step of the way why would you not want to build one of those Monumental buildings and

Facilities like the Pavilion as commissioner Stark you mentioned we had the governor here and no heat in there you can make a go and now you're going to turn into a shed why wouldn't you take and put the structure like there where like you say it doesn't get a lot of use now because of its constraints why wouldn't you put a nice building right there that would be right in the heart of the development I could actually feed all the stuff you want to go do rather go pill departments out there on 54. that are going to be bound in traffic when you get only right turnout only that means you're going to cross over and create more jams why would you do that so I'd say two things uh chairman with all due respect you see the size of this room today if I was planning to do high-rise in the heart of the property we'd be standing room only there'd probably be 500 people here screaming saying they don't want that uh people's greatest concerns are traffic and if we build high rise at the heart of the community it's gonna definitively make it a much worse Saddle Brook for everybody so it's actually countered everybody's interested in this room to do that and then also help you for a second though yeah the mpud that was granted years ago here was actually to allow a nine-story building to go in so that's in the impute that exists right now that these people knew about when they bought the problem they're having is everything else you're going to hear in just a few minutes the other thing is you know as you go vertical and building nine story uh it's a lot more expensive cost of construction so you need much greater you know sales rents Etc that um you know well Pasco County is you know growing immensely and as you know we are huge Believers and huge investors in Pasco County we don't think it justifies nine story construction at the moment thank you I'm trying to wrap it up a couple minutes yep I'm Barbara Wilhite so in wrapping it up that is our presentation I would ask you to bring this back we've offered a lot of detail that has nothing to do with comp plan and Zoning how we configure the golf course we've been asked about it so we provided those things so we do need to get back and think about what it means for this comp plan Amendment and why we're doing the comp plan Amendment and if we would make available our golf course architect team to meet with you commissioner and consider your ideas we're not saying you know we wouldn't consider your ideas but it really has it's outside a land use and Zoning about how we reconfigure and how the client the investment the client wants to make in the resort and to if there was a cheaper way to do it they would do it they have a reason why and he's explained why they want to spend the money and the time to redo these courses and I think that's it's pretty persuasive when he explains that but you have a lot of ideas we'd be happy to make our golf course architect available to meet with you and listen to your

ideas based upon your experience out there but coming back to a land use Amendment which your accounting attorney would say a lot of these things are MPD and a lot of these things have nothing to do with either in the golf course reconfiguration I don't think has to do anything to do with land use or zoning but coming back to why we're here we're here because we have a res-6 land use that has allowed 1779 residential units over all of this res all the residents excuse me over all of the resort property and we're trying to make this a more specific plan development for to specifically allow for these commercial and Resort uses that exist and have been entitled in the mpud and to actually provide a benefit of having certainty about where things will go and where things won't go by doing a binding sub-area plan that's never been done before so I just would ask you to try to keep a focus on the comp plan and what we're trying to accomplish with the comp plan we're already approved for residential we're already approved for multi-family we're already approved for town homes under the comp plan exists today so it's really the non-residential in making sure that those are recognized as uses that exist today and entitlements that exist today because there's already a hundred thousand square feet of commercial entitled today okay we added 5 000 to that to make it 105 so that they could in that Clubhouse area where they're renovating if they wanted to add some more retail or restaurant we would have a specific allocation for that that wasn't considered when the project was initially entitled so with that I know we've been up here a long time we appreciate your patience and listening we only wanted to present this because we thought you wanted to hear it and that you were important to hear the details because you've been been people talking to you and you want to know the details you need to know the details so that's why we were up here so long not to waste your time and we appreciate it thank you but if we go I just make one comment just to what you said as far as like to fix the conflict zoning and with the commercial aspects I mean the MPD was granted what was granted for everything that's there uh but in it did have a component for the nine story so at the time the code and this was done it was all okay but would you be able to do any Apartments if you didn't have rent six and what would the density be if we didn't have wrestling if you didn't get if we have red six now would you be able to do any Apartments out there and what would the density be we can put 1779 units within the boundary of Saddlebrook under the res six land use designation okay with what's available for land now with the red six would you be able to put any apartments in yes okay um Barbara I had a meeting with the residents unfortunately there was a mix-up and they came here and I was in

New Port Richey and so our unfortunately our meeting got um shortened but I did listen to the Planning Commission meeting and the residents had a lot of questions that I felt didn't get answered but I know you didn't get to do the rebut um but and you might have mentioned it here but I was having some issues with my iPad so I they didn't catch it in one of the presentations you already touched on no one's view gets lost but one of the questions I heard at the Planning Commission was the concern about the second entrance that would be on the new vision Road does that Vision Road have a name Vision Road H okay we'll we'll keep calling Vision road that that entrance would be gated so that there would not be public access to South Brook and I understand I just wanted to answer that for the resume so they'd have to put my presentation back up and I can show you on the concept plan actually you have it in front of you if you look at your concept plan it's called MPD concept plan you'll see the details about gating and where things are gated it's important to the residents that the fact that they all live behind a gate is maintained after we develop area number one so there is a gate off of the vision road but it's only for the residents and guests within Saddlebrook to be able to to go through that gate and use that Vision Road the development area one whoever's going to develop area one cannot get into Saddlebrook Resorts via that gate and it is on that MPD concept the other question that the residents I thought brought up during your meeting and maybe didn't get answered and um I asked during my meeting with the folks is the commitment to the Saddle Brook School I understand there is a that that's not going away and that the layout of the new road does not hurt the Saddle Brook School that's right I can have I don't know who's best from the team to to answer your question about the school and and Jordan you want to yeah these were questions that the residents were asking so I just want to make sure they got it on the school piece um you know school is actually a joint venture between us and another group it wasn't a requirement for us to buy the school the school loses money today we chose to buy the school a lot of the other investors who were looking at the resort actually would not have bought the school and would have carved that business out we viewed as important part of what has historically made Saddlebrook Saddlebrook so we are committed to the school and view that as a very important part of Saddlebrook does the new Road hurt the school or hit us or it does not the new the new road doesn't impact where the school facilities are from a tennis golf dorm or the schooling the classrooms itself in any way and we

actually just renewed our accreditation for five years for the school uh this past week as well if they come up again when they're speaking I may ask you more of us we have our team ready to answer questions after we hear more from the neighbors thank you okay so before we get to public College you guys want to take a five minute break yes okay we're gonna take a five minute break and we'll take public comment [Music] s thank you [Music]

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get free very good please have a seat [Music] all right so we're going to start public comment for the hearing and if we could please no applause let's let everybody speak there's a few groups here that have asked for extra time we're going to allow that as well and then the clerk will go down the list one by one by one so everybody everyone will get a chance to get hurt Mr chairman you want to remind them about the mics oh and please for all the Commissioners and also the people up front please speak right into the mic so everybody can hear and the clerk and pick up the minutes okay okay thank you Mr chairman so the first group we have is a collective group of Jane Graham Larry barbetta Joanne barbetta and Drew Roark for 45 minutes collectively I don't know who's going to come speak first but when you come up if you can give your name and address for the record we would appreciate it thank you what point of order Mr chairman what group is this representing the Saddlebrook in total so they're speaking for the Stafford recipes a lot of the residents yes is it the Saddle Brook agent ways the Saddlebrook condos Association it's a group of saddlebrooke residents that formed the group to represent South work how many to represent Jane how many people you represent you figure uh actually at least two HOAs Fairway and the Saddlebrook properties Association and in total so those I'm Larry barbetta I live at 5326 box Hunt Drive and I was one of the people that founded the safe saddleboard coalition we were formed just because of everything going on and because we have five different HOAs which we'll discuss there was some fragmentation and we felt there was a need to have a more unified structure so we created a non-profit organization it's open to anyone who owns property within Saddlebrook it's also organized as a nonprofit Coalition so HOAs could join and so we've had the two largest resident HOAs have joined the Coalition and we provide education community outreach and legal support so you're speaking in place of the other the others that want to speak and speak there's a couple other groups that that information they want to share as well and this group's getting 45 minutes they're getting 45 minutes yes so just to clarify where we represent individuals we represent the saddlebook property Owners Association which has about a hundred residents and we represent the Fairway Village HOA which has just under 200. residences for the record I've met with the applicant I've met with this group I've met with others as well um so yeah sorry thank you thank you so name and address for the record please

good afternoon chair and commission my name is Jane Graham I'm an attorney at sunshine city law at 737 Main Street Suite 100 Safety Harbor Florida represent the safe Saddlebrook Coalition which was just discussed a Florida non-profit Corporation dedicated to providing a common and unified voice based on the shared priorities and values that span the entire Saddle Brook Community membership includes individual property owners and homeowner associations within the Saddlebrook community Coalition respectfully requests that the County Commission denies this amendment my client would like to find a solution with mass and has had conversations with Miss wilheit and Mast but based on the incompatibility with the neighborhood inconsistency with a comprehensive plan numerous glaring failures to follow required procedures in the comp plan and the Land Development code and lack of data my client cannot support today's proposal this is not vacant land this is an existing long-standing community and a legendary athletic resort with the world's renowned reputation its unique role in Pasco County must be acknowledged and considered as you consider this large-scale comprehensive plan Amendment and future land use map text Amendment remember that this is a legislative decision so okay what does that mean it means it's a major policy decision you're changing the land use on 500 plus acres the comprehensive plan requires that you consider implications of the immediate property also the surrounding area and the effect on growth management policies throughout the county as a legislative decision you are looking at the policy issues and as as an elective elected representative of Pasco County you decide how you want the county to grow and change a comprehensive planned amendment is your policy decision where you can deny an application for just about any reason as long as it's based on some kind of rational legitimate reason courts in Florida have found that Resident opposition to land use changes as long as it's motivated by legitimate and rational concerns including issues with traffic lack of compatibility with the area and inadequate infrastructure our grounds for denial it's also unlikely that denying this will expose the county to liability from the developer as long as it's based on legitimate reasons the developer is actually asking you a favor to change the County's existing long-term plan for growth and the burden is on them to make you agree future land use math amendments are not intended to occur with the same frequency as rezoning and their effect is to look at the Practical consequences of the policy shift and so you should be looking at Big Picture issues as we go forward and you hear the testimony today so for uh a comprehensive plan Amendment under the future land use appendix A1 it talks about the different standards of review and

I'm not going to go through each of these in detail one by one but these are the criteria that you need to look at including things like anticipated Demand on facilities and services so questions about traffic are absolutely relevant to this issue as well as EMS and police and other types of Public Services natural resources and natural features are also relevant comprehensive plan review which I'll get to in a second and then Transportation now the land use Amendment application has to comply with the transportation needs assessment we have drew Roark on the line today he is our traffic engineer and he has had a chance to evaluate the transportation needs assessment and is going to share some of his findings there are multiple inconsistencies with the comprehensive plan and this is one point which is part of the criteria that you have to look at there cannot be inconsistencies they're actually more than 12 that I've isolated a number of them include issues related to incompatibility and impact of the neighborhood character interestingly 1.10.1 compatibility review you should be looking at things like consideration of cultural features and Community characters so as you'll hear and and as you're you know just from the general history of Saddlebrook it does have a cultural feature in the Arnold Palmer golf course in its long-standing history as being a resort throughout Pasco County it's something that's well loved and it's these are types of issues to to take into account also in looking at the land use features this is of an existing land use map which shows that the area I don't know if I have a pointer here where Development Area one is is recreational and so that's where the driving range is and so if you're going to change that that is a significant change to the existing land use map I want you to really keep this one in mind this is objective 1.2 of the future mind use element natural historic archaeological and cultural resources the county shall ensure that natural historic and archaeological and cultural resources are protected and this includes things like sites that have the Integrity of location design materials workmanship and Association associated with people's with lives of persons and are significant in the past and also distinctive characteristics and so the example of having these unusual Arnold Palmer golf courses as well as being a elite athletic facility facility having people like Jennifer Capriati and Pete Sampras who had trained there it does have some historic and cultural significance and so it's important as you look at how this area grows that you take these issues into account and other people will go into this much more in detail but just as a little teaser the Conde Nast Traveler has actually listed Saddlebrook as a top 100 golf resort in North America and top 25 tennis Resort in the world

so it's really unique it's it's a cultural resource that's extremely important for Pasco County a piece of athletic history you also hear about residential compatibility and and transition I'm not going to go into a lot of detail but you will hear complaints from people who live in the area of issues related to noise and concerns about the development and Development Area number one that could potentially impact them also protection of residential neighborhoods and on-site traffic flows something about the on-site traffic flow that I want you to really consider is that it's not just about the traffic on State Road 54. it's also about the traffic jam that you will get as a log Jam at the entrance of Saddlebrook as well as the internal circulation and delivery trucks backing up based on some of these issues so it's and moving the the maintenance from the front to in the center and so these are things that you should be asking yourself how is this actually going to impact this community um as far as the viability of the neighborhood and the overall traffic flow commercial development is something to think about as well and that they are asking to add a little bit of extra commercial space and also just you know again the issue of minimizing noise and lighting impacts things to to keep in mind um one thing that I do want to talk about as well without going too much into the weeds is that the future the you hear a lot about well this is actually a cleanup because it's residential six and therefore it's you know we're doing everyone a favor but I want you to remember that property owners aren't entitled to the most dense classification within a land use designation and actually if you look at residential six within the comprehensive plan it allows recreational facilities such as a golf course one last thing is in the housing element of the comp plan you need to look at how these requests for additional residential acreage or density increases are supported by residential growth Trends and I understand that you've had some discussions in the last couple years about how are people growing within Pasco County and you know are there apartments or you know the bedroom community these are this is going to be more information that people will provide and big picture items that you should be thinking about is this really the way that you think residential growth Trends are occurring as far as other issues and I know I'm kind of taking a little bit longer than I imagined so I'm gonna I'm gonna speed up a little bit you should also deny this because it fails to meet State and County standards for comprehensive plan Amendment the Florida statute for comprehensive plan amendments requires that it's based on data and surveys things like public facilities and services and what you'll find is that

there actually is no fire or EMS report in your materials it hasn't been done there also are significant flaws in the transportation needs assessment which I will leave to Drew Roark to further describe but what he's come to the conclusion of is that it's actually very close to being a fail failing Road for infrastructure and also very close to an existing failing road so as far as Transportation these are things from a policy perspective to be taking into account as far as police in your staff report at page six you have a comment from bureau chief Chase Daniels who actually recognized them I believe that um County attorney steinstein or even mentioned this in the prior conversation that the sheriff's office is currently 64th out of 67 counties in terms of deputies per thousand citizens served and that there is concern regarding the impact of planned developments such as multi-family development to bring hundreds of people into a small area now as far as legal issues as well there's a fundamental piece of the application missing which is the concept plan and the section flu A6 of PD plan development in the comp plan requires that you actually have something that's a concept plan that identifies range of uses density intensity maximum uses and the general Arrangement now the thing that's strange is that you have a sub area plan in your materials but that sub-area plan has actually changed um there actually was no sub area plan or concept plan at the September 2022 Planning Commission meeting there's actually no concept plan um at the January meeting there was a sub-area plan and then in this meeting you'll find that this is the one from January and this is the one that you're just seeing now and there there's you know there are some differences as far as the different uses but what's really interesting aside from as well as not including density and intensity which is a requirement it also has totally different restrictions under the notes and so for example in January um it was pretty restricted as far as restricted area four which is a golf course of how it's used if you look at the difference now in February it now also allows um a vehicular parking areas and activities associated with special events and so this is actually changing the uses this is an expansion of what had been previously looked at another issue that I'm kind of concerned about is number two which says that the um the maximum levels of density are going to be subject to a land use exchange Matrix well that land use exchange Matrix is not in any of the documents that I've seen on the agenda and it appears that that's actually looking at something that would be density which density is units per acre and there's actually no calculation in these documents so I think you should be keeping this in mind

um the other issue I do want to raise is that the neighborhood meeting there have been a number of neighborhood meetings well called neighborhood meetings but what they actually are it's a element of divide and conquer because instead of having all the neighborhood meeting together they're in all the variety of different homeowner associations and sometimes it's even with different information showing um you know there's a little bit of questions circling oh what did you hear what did you hear there's also a violation of sections 305.1 of the Pasco LDC which requires that these meetings are 30 days before the first hearing the one that's posted here on this public notice is actually December 28th but you originally had the hearing in September so that didn't happen but then even if they were doing it now that was only a week before the January meeting so you will be hearing more evidence today and I I would like to take the opportunity to submit some of this evidence into the record when I'm done it includes Drew rourke's report on traffic some historic documents relating to Saddlebrook and also um our presentations with photos videos and maps in conclusion you must deny because there are numerous inconsistencies with a comprehensive plan that's at least 12 that I counted it's unsupported by infrastructure and services police EMS and traffic and there are also significant flaws and emissions in the application and data and just in general it's bad public policy to dismantle Saddlebrook which is a well-loved and elite athletic institution and in its place put an apartment building and something that you know while it could be placed somewhere else in the county and it's not that my my client is not anti-development they want to see their area develop in the right way we just want it to be done sensitive to the needs of the community and acknowledging the history and culture of Saddlebrook itself so with that I'd like to pass on Joanne barbetta okay and you want us to receive and file but of course you would hand that out can I please um Reserve five minutes for rebuttal uh don't be after the show may ask her may I ask her sure um it's just that I just looked you said that Saddle Brook was in the top 100 golf courses was that the world or the US I think I'll have to go back I think that's the U.S it's not a neither okay well I mean that was a document that had been pulled up so I mean that's do you know what the last time it was ranked in one of the top 100 I mean I can that's okay I I I just want to come in the document yeah I mean I I think it you know it's a probably Google it all right so may I um receiving file yes I'll make those second all in favor say aye aye aye tells them to the clerk and she'll pass them out okay so Joanne uh Barbara if you want to

come to the podium and state your name and address for the record I am Joanne barbetta and I live at 5326 Fox Hunt Drive 10 years ago we came to Saddlebrook when our daughter had dreams of training at a tennis academy the tennis Drew Us in but the wonderful people the natural beauty and the Abundant Wildlife made us stay it seems like that [Music] okay all right now this historic and world renowned Resort is at risk of being diminished by mass development plans their plans are Income incompatible with this community's character and charm and open in Green Space and sense of arrival which all Golf and Tennis Resorts have mass plans will increase commute times and traffic congestion while not being a significant job creator you can see that Saddlebrook is simply spectacular the expansive and dense collection of trees the winding roads the spacious driving range were all thoughtfully laid out at a scale not seen in Pasco County and Beyond the homes are spaced far apart with a lot of privacy and large Open Spaces the peacefulness and serenity of that can't be overstated the entryway welcomes visitors and reminds them to slow down and enjoy what nature and Recreation have to offer those who designed the entryway took great care to create this beautiful environment back in 1979 its developers required a road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest Topgolf and country clubs all share that design sense Style just look at the beautiful sense of arrival at PGA National Resort in Palm Beach Gardens motion to receive and file s okay sorry um they all and also the Waldorf Astoria Bonnet Creek Resort in Orlando and Tennis Resorts in at Rancho Valencia in California they all share that wonderful sense of arrival as you drive in indeed some developers make this a priority those who recently bought the scenic Cabot Citrus Farms Resort up the road strive to improve the overall playing experience and bring out the best of the picturesque property which weeds through towering sand tines palmetto trees and ancient moss-covered oats clearly their first order of business was not to destroy the entryway by erecting huge multi-family Apartments yes they're adding some housing but it's in the form of small modest cottages how in the world would apartment buildings be compatible with the Lush welcoming atmosphere inside the resort Mass boasts over and over about building a town center but we already have a sense of community a large group of us used to get together weekly play tennis and have drinks and dinner at Dempsey's we would drive home in our golf carts no need to leave our community no need to get in the car and drive we have a school here into which Golf and Tennis

students walk or bike there's a shared interest in athletic Excellence where we regularly interact with the best Elite athletes in the world I'm an avid tennis player and often stand close by watching the world's best practice and train it was a wonderful opportunity for our daughter too imagine being a young player and running into John Isner by the training room or feeling proud that your primary tennis coach was used to train Pete Sampras when a developer comes in and peddles Nostalgia and Town Center dreams but in reality are selling high density apartments and commercial space it feels disrespectful Saddle Brook values peace and quiet Saddlebrook at night is actually very dark and quiet how in the world would a sea of cards and apartment buildings be compatible with this Mass creates issues of security and incompatibility and then turns around and tries to solve the problems they created by essentially Walling us off from each other two separate worlds divided by a chain link fence key fobs and Gates I'm hard-pressed to think of anything less compatible and I don't have to tell anyone in the room about all the proliferation of apartment buildings around us we see them everywhere Mass proposal for their Apartments were dwarf all of these Mass wants to build 465 units in area one the the story apartments out east which a lot of us has seen is only 320 units the apartments by the outlet mall the mava apartments are supposed to be 260 units again 465 units is huge and what about the congestion and commute times Pasco County is one of the longest commute times in Tampa Bay and one of the longest in the state 70 percent of employed Pasco residents worked somewhere else we are in the southern end of Pasco County and building more Apartments so close to I-75 would be a natural draw for those wanting to live in a desirable area but work somewhere else if you build it they will come but they will drive to another County for work all of this degradation to Saddlebrook might be forgiven I suppose if there was significant job creation because of it but that is not a case in in the zoom September Zoom call Mass representative said we are thinking this is meant to be some small office space like a coffee shop ice cream shop and things like that it is not meant to be a major employer if one of the objectives is economic contribution and job creation focusing on making repairs and improvements at the resort and the resort core will likely create far more jobs don't we value being able to live an interesting and inspiring places even along busy roads like State Road 54 and maybe because of those busy roads protecting these wonderful spaces reminds us that Pasco County is a place of beauty if we don't protect these things a small group of developers will have an outsized role in shaping our environment and our County our places become their vision is that what we want our Legacy to be

in some we don't need hundreds of apartments on this property what we need is to put our efforts resources and creativity into proving what improving what we already have Saddlebrook is a gem and needs to be treated that way I respectfully implore you to protect that gem by denying Mass application thank you now Larry barbetta will be speaking foreign address for the record hello chairman hello Commissioners my name is Larry barbetta I live at 5326 Fox Hunt Drive in Wesley Chapel it's very nice to see you all and very nice to meet you councilor we are working through technical difficulties Joanne's presentation was not Joanne's presentation so improvised pretty well we wouldn't know yes yes okay now is let me ask a technical question pointer here the middle button okay and then forward and back it's the middle button forward multi-purpose okay well thank you um I am here uh as a resident of Pasco County as my wife mentioned we've lived here about a decade we love our community and we are here to make sure that anything that's done in the development and Redevelopment of our community is consistent with the values Heritage and builds on the legacy of Saddlebrook so we've talked about the Coalition a bit I think you know the gist of it is we are a non-profit organization that was formed in response I won't repeat everything that I said earlier uh to what's going on um what I would say is that our values are the unified across all of Saddlebrook we try to protect the value of all our property owners we want to maintain our quality of life we want to restore and work with a company that's going to help restore the luster and Heritage of Saddlebrook that's going to build on the incredible Legacy that it has and protect and preserve its natural beauty and Wildlife and this is Saddle Brook as many of you know okay a little more technically lots of talk about HOAs xyz's here is a geographic map of Saddlebrook what you see are the different color codes are the different HOAs in here so as you can imagine one of the challenges is that there's because the community was built over time there are five different HOAs um the Coalition is open to any Resident in all of these hoes we have members from all of these HOAs as individuals and we have the one in red Saddlebrook you see the red which is about like I said around 200 homes just under and their residence is important to note the Saddlebrook POA in blue just under 100 homes again these are residents that live here and own they're not rental units I no we have our bylaws prohibited now there they are there are a few that are Legacy then

okay there are there are a few in there but where you see them is more in Lakeside which has different rules which is part of the green Association see the green ones and that's part of the condo tell or Resort condo an important difference here without I mean everyone has there's values that span whether you're an owner resident or you're an investor the condo tell is the room product Saddlebrook so they have an investment mindset principally and what's um anyway we've had some initial Communications with Mast we are open to that the Coalition is not anti-development we want Saddlebrook enhanced and we're not anti-massed we just want it done in a way that again adds to what makes Saddlebrook so special okay so if we go back Saddlebrook is an interesting history many of you know it I won't dwell on it but from the beginning the intent was to create a world-class Resort and of course play upon the natural beauty of this County and bolstered by its incredible reputation for athletics certainly the resort is aged and needs attention we don't deny that but we also believe that we need to maintain what makes it so unique and special and valuable okay so this is the core and saddlebrook's kind of an interesting synergistic world and when you start picking apart the pieces it creates consequences so the resort core is where we have the pools all the condo tell units Etc we have as you know two Arnold Palmer golf courses which again is very special and unique certainly again like many things in need of attention I'm not a golf expert I will not speak to that other than I know that many of the homes are built around the golf course and courses and designed to feature those views um we certainly have concerns in spite of what was said and we'll get into that in a little bit we need assurances that Golf Course views or Golf Course use because see we bought here with a reason we knew what our properties were we knew what this community was we knew what the land use rights were we know what you could or couldn't do in our backyard you're being asked to consider things that impact that and could change that [Applause] as you see that's a very lovely house in Saddlebrook but that's one on the golf course this is the tennis area the tennis area has incredible history these are not just courts that would be like saying you know where a famous musician first played is just a you know Studio okay this is what it should look like it is not looked like that and not even before masked I'm not throwing them under the bus on this but it has been 10 months to a year and there's been progress but certainly there needs more and I'm sure they would acknowledge that as well okay but this is an area that's also covered by some of the changes so we need to talk about that okay as I mentioned about famous people

I don't know if you're into tennis as you can see my wife is she taught me so I'm trying to get better a long way to go but this is the Who's Who and these are people that train there as children they continue to have a connection with this place they went to school there Jennifer Capriati the Brian Brothers Pete Sampras Martina Hingis John Isner okay and again there's many that still own homes there there's also many current day players that have are on to doing incredible things which I'll speak of shortly so this is an incredible thing also in golf like we said we draw people because of the Palmer golf courses what's interesting and kind of subtle is these this athletic Excellence is the magnet that draws people it draws children to come and train like like our daughter did it draws adult groups to come it draws businesses it for golf tennis Etc so we need a resort product that can house that and they can service it in an appropriate way and that's why again as that is declined we have a lot of challenges okay it has to work together it has to be synergistic it can't be picked apart these are just some of the golfers Keegan Bradley PGA Rookie of the Year back in the day PGA Champion okay a little Saddlebrook doesn't only have yesterday Saddlebrook has more than a past it has a present and hopefully together we can make sure it has a future we'll get to that in a minute but okay young man on the right National Junior Champion Carl Phillips attends Stanford University now trained at Saddle birth went to school there Golf Academy wonderful young man heck of a player you should know this person this is Jennifer Capriati came to Saddlebrook at 13 years old by the way she has a letter in here um asking that you look at this carefully and I think specifically asking that because it concerns that you consider denying the plan as proposed Jennifer lives there still Pete Sampras trained there Alvaro is his coach Alvaro is my daughter's coach one of the best guys in the world Andy Roddick graduate of Saddlebrook Prep Academy the Bryan brothers trained there for years and again let's talk present on the left Gabriella dubrowski Gabby has won multiple grand slams and doubles from Canada she too a graduate of Saddlebrook Prep Academy and is a homeowner in Saddlebrook and neighbor to Dave and Allison among others this is Luisa Stefani Luis and her family came to Saddlebrook when she was an eighth grader this is her winning the first medal in tennis for Brazil at the last Olympics her partner was seated 298 in the world and they upset some of the best teams this is her on the left last week she just won the Australian Open mixed doubles Grand Slam championship

she had she and her family have a place at Saddlebrook okay so we don't just have a past we have a very much a now I could go on and on there's incredible depth that's that's there and we need to preserve and protect that that is so unique you can't get that this is not a golf course it's not some Muni course and it's not a country club for tennis okay so now here we go this is Ground Zero the driving range okay it looks like a driving range and it is a driving range the plans are to make that something very different okay but the driving range serves a multitude of purposes at Saddlebrook so when we do this and I need to break for a moment I'm really confused okay I'm up kind of late just like some of our other friends here we're spending our personal money for lawyers and we're looking at plans and then we come here today and there's different ones okay I don't understand how that's fair I don't this is the plan that's there where's the driving range where's Waldo he's not there and then today he is now we've seen plans before they were kind enough to share some plans with us about a week ago where the driving range was there but then when this is filed this is what's on the agenda there's no driving range definition a bunch of those slides with all due respect are not in the agenda packet how am I supposed to know what I'm gonna comment on okay so and and if you don't think it matters my 80 some year old parents we bought him a cute little house on The Fairway okay they want to look at a fairway they don't want to guess where the driving range is going to be okay so this still and this is the one I I guess and you know again I'm not a lawyer I'm just a layperson but I mean I I don't understand they said that the PD sub-area plan is binding this is a p I think this is the PD sub-area plant well where's the where's the driving range so is that not binding this is binding that's what that's what I'm being told please someone later correct me if I'm wrong so you see it's a domino effect and the driving range is the domino effect it's the first Domino because with that what happens is Everything Changes and as Jane Graham pointed out the wording that's supposed to protect the people with the golf course views how does this say I'm going to always have a golf course View it says I could have a view of a vehicular parking area that's exactly what it says I can read okay it says I could have you know player-based food and beverage it says I could have a special events area associated with the operations okay that is not that's not a guarantee

of a golf course View and that again impacts what we bought we bought with certain expectations and we made our investments that way now the tennis area the courts I showed you and and Jordan we and I even discussed this the other day if the intent is to say it's going to be at least 20 tennis courts why does it say that it's 20 quote courts which may be used as tennis pickleball padel whatever those are lovely Sports don't get me wrong but also look what it says additional surface parking and we need parking down there that's a tough area to park okay if you follow this to the letter you can fit four pickleball courts on a tennis court you could end up with the physical area of five tennis courts okay and a bunch of parking okay that's a lot different than where Grand Slam champions are born and raised okay and that has a huge difference and and I'm not accusing anyone of evil intent but we need protection these are plans that you're voting on that as I understand they go up they go I mean this is the time if we have a problem we need to fix this okay also we have an issue here this is the area one stuff I'm not going to go nuts because other people are going to discuss this but what's going to happen here is everything that's there has to get pushed somewhere okay there we're not talking just cart barns we're talking massive maintenance things there's giant fuel tanks there's chemicals to run the golf course there is also a huge laundry facility up there state-of-the-art equipment a little old but very powerful and does a great job there's also a full storage area it's the equivalent of like a giant Sam's Club because remember there's 500 plus condo tells so what's going to happen if your refrigerator breaks you're going to call it up and with the supply chain issues wait seven months no they store them so there's a whole bunch of things that are happening there and it's going to create a strain on the rest of the resort we have to figure out where those are and again we haven't had that detail and I don't care if we call it an mpud or this that the other if you can't tell me where you're going to put like all of the gas tanks and all the chemicals and we don't know that's not that's that doesn't strike me as the spirit of what Pasco County wants okay so where are we now we were I thought in the last Planning Commission hearing there was a request for greater detail but what we saw was almost the same thing and then today now we see the driving range again I mean it seems that things are shifting every day every moment I'm not seeing a comprehensive plan for a sustainable viable Resort and to take it back to its you know original state and standing so is this really the right thing to do for what really is a true Landmark you can't replace history you can build a

new golf course but you can't create history you can build a tennis court you can't create history we have history I believe and the vast majority of our community believes and I know the Coalition believes that Saddlebrook deserves better we heard some very interesting information today from David Engel it seems that there might be things that are better for the county than a bunch of apartment buildings that create the domino effect okay and I think Pasco County deserves better I think we all deserve having more clarity and more information on what we're doing because your your actions have significant consequences for everyone at Saddlebrook all of the residents and owners there so we respectfully ask you to deny the plan we ask you to help us in our quest to save what's best about Saddlebrook thank you for your time it was Drew Rook on the line yeah I think Drew York is is on the line uh Drew can you hear us can he patch be patched in Mr Roark are you there we can hear you name and address for the record thank you Drew Roark with Alex work engineering 2017 chimney swift Hollow Tallahassee Florida first I'd like to say thank you to the Commissioners for allowing me to participate in this meeting virtually so what we did for this is we took a look at the needs assessment that was mentioned by Miss Graham or this proposed development review simply compares the traffic analysis to the rules outlined by the county and compared it to the industry standards for traffic engineering we did a few we did find a few issues with the analysis and they're outlined in the documents I think have been provided to you get right to it I'm going to summarize them there quickly um I just wanted to note that these comments are limited to the needs assessment only and not to any other traffic analyzes like the timing and phasing analysis which is separate so one point keep in mind and with this analysis is that one of the segments that was included in a study study area limits the segment of State Road 54 from um way in this analysis without any changes or any edits uh the way it sits today it shows that it's within 1.6 percent of its capacity which is very very close to failing is projected to be 5 305 vehicles per day or excuse me per hour and the capacity is 5390. so the point of that is to say that the accuracy of this analysis is very

important to be able to make the conclusion that they're making with confidence the primary issues that we noted in the analysis are first one is the study area itself the study area was established in the methodology statement agreement with Pasco County and it includes State Road 54 from County Road 581 to Curley Road studying this study area really is not reasonable for development of the size there's no logical basis that was provided for the establishment of how of the study area itself in the Pasco County comp plan Amendment application Transportation doesn't specifically address the process for establishing a study area however it does state that quote each application will be required to demonstrate that the level's service standards are met or will be met concurrent with the impacts of the development so I think it's unreasonable to assume that the project traffic from a development of this dies that Saddle Brook would not have significant traffic on the development of State Road 54 for example west of County Road 581 to a major principal arterial like I-75 so that's including the segment from 581 to 75 and in other segments uh I'm not sure that this application is demonstrating level service standards are being met I'd also note that the next segment of 54 with outside which is 581 to 75 as well as the next segment of County Road 54 Beyond 75 excuse me are showing us failing in the 2045 lrtp it's the level service is failing without the addition of this additional traffic last issue was related to the distribution that was used and I apologize for getting very technical but I'm trying to explain it without too many details and taking too much time but the traffic distribution was 65 percent to the west and 35 percent to the east again no explanation of how they came up with it other than it states the distribution of the project traffic was based on the existing traffic pattern pattern and the vicinity of the project however a 30-minute count that was collected by the app hey Drew we we can't hear you so well can you try to go a little closer to the mic sure how's that yeah that's better Okay so distribution showed 65 percent to the west and 35 percent to the east uh it stated in the report they came up with that distribution based on the existing traffic travel patterns traffic patterns and development patterns in the in the vicinity of the project however there's a turning movement count which is an actual account um at Saddlebrook way in 54 that shows that percentage in the PMP cower which is when the study area or the study analysis period was is actually 72 percent to the west and 28 to the east uh so that basically means more of the

thank you so I guess my this next question would be for our staff is how does this compared to the County's findings okay Mr chairman I would ask the permission to hold this question sure Commissioner Oakland the New Vision Road that's going to come in there is going to affect that driving range as it is so some of those buildings are going to be affected by our vision Road and I've I'm not mistaken that Vision Road doesn't it have well it'll have lights and actually go across pitchboard on to the north why don't we let Staff address our left afterwards so that that affects the traffic in that area also it's not happening right away but we'll let Staff address later but it's Vision Road it's going to happen so why would that developer that has that corner starting okay are you done with your comments at this point yes yeah we are thank you very much okay so um the next one I have is Julie Pines and I believe you gave her 12 minutes what she's speaking for I I don't have what's the list does not say who she is speaking for so she'll have to let us know and actually if we may can we switch to have Patrick Hogan first and then Julie Pines sure okay so I have Patrick and Sherry Hogan listed for 10 minutes collectively and so Mr Hogan when you come can you give your name and address for the record thank you my name is Pat Hogan I'm at uh 30304 Laurelwood Lane in Wesley Chapel uh good afternoon uh thanks for giving us a chance to uh make some comments I'm a resident of uh Saddlebrook I'm also a member of the save saddlebook coalition I'm also a member of the board of directors of the Fairway Association that's one of the five HOAs that Lariat outlined before and Fairway Association is a supporting HOA member of the coalition I'm here today to talk to you about golf at Saddlebrook and the impact of mass people's changes on golf there currently we have two golf courses the Palmer Palmer courses the Palmer name carries enormous weight in golf there's an expectation of a certain level of play at a Palmer Course many websites including tee times USA Golf Now Golf Pass Golf advisor golf pack Travel reference to Palmer courses and their advertising of Saddlebrook even Mast and their Saddlebrook website invites you to and I quote experience our two legendary Arnold Palmer golf courses the Palmer name helps their property value that's the main reason why my wife Sherry and I sold our saddleboard cluster home that we had bought in 2019. and we bought a larger single-family home with views of pools 12 13 and 14 on the Palmer Course we feel good about this increased investment

in the larger home as Resort have been sold and there was positive news about the new owner's plans for upgrading Resort in our mind we didn't just buy a home with a golf course view we bought a home with a Palmer Golf Course View we had the expectation that the golf courses were and would continue to to be viable golf courses attracting visitors from around the world as they had previously Mass had plans to use their words from early media related releases and presentations and I heard the statement today again to restore Saddlebrook to its former grandeur all this could change depending on your decision today and further your decisions in the coming months depending on whether you agree with Mass Vision for adding more apartment buildings to an already busy corridor it also depends on whether you agree with Mass Vision for Saddlebrook and further if you believe there will actually spend the money they see the will to restore Saddlebrook to the shiny gem that it was Mass plans are to pave over and develop the driving range and that's why we're all here today really is because of the driving range Saddle Brook property owners have reasonable investment-backed expectations that we have bought into a legendary golf tennis and athletic Resort community however Mass plans care more about a quick Buck to build apartments and a small shopping area instead of making thoughtful improvements to the interior Saddle Brook consistent with its character the current Mass plan calls for a course redesign down to 27 holes we still don't have any details we don't have any drawings we haven't seen anything one thing that is certain is that the golf experience at Saddlebrook will never be the same and will never attract the same tourism that it did in the past the golf courses are now 18 whole courses the holes flow together on the Palmer Course 18 holes are all consecutive the 10th hole you cross Kim Carey Road it's great right after the ninth hole the halfway house which hasn't been open for years was opened by mass last spring for a short period of time but now it's closed again it also houses the only public restrooms on that part of the Palmer Course both restrooms are less than great and in dire need of upgrading on the settlement course the front and back nines are divided by the resort area which gives you a chance to grab a beer in between the nines soft drink on your way to the back nine the two choruses couldn't be more different most holes in the Saddle Brook course are lined with cypress tree Wetlands on both sides of the fairways the greens will not perfect have improved and are now very playable

the polymer chorus is far more wide open there's factors lots of room for stray shots there's lots of water but they're a big wide open Fairways that make even the most offline shot playable without a penalty I tell you this because the final layout for the 18 holes will inevitably lead to a combination of the two courses this is sure to give the courses the feel of a good municipal course substandard to Palmer Mass tells us they've hired green Jones garfock Architects to rework the layout of the golf courses Reese Jones is very reputable but they're not Arnold Palmer and we will no longer have Palmer courses we will have three nine hole courses there will no longer be an 18 hole course at Saddlebrook how do you attract tournaments and tourists without an 18-hole Golf Course to offer there are more than 1100 golf courses in the State of Florida I did a quick Google search and what I searched was 27 whole golf courses in Florida less than 50 turned out if 27 holes is such a great option why aren't there more of them masked in their presentation has made strong statements about the condition of the courses and the amount of money that it will take to make the necessary improvements specifically they also stated that the saddlebook course is on and playable in several months in the in the summer rainy season I personally played the courses yeah yes they can be wet it's card path only but we still played the courses they were playable there are some drainage issues I took some photos recently that show some of the chronic wet areas on the golf course this is uh this is hole one in Saddlebrook and you can oh hang on that's about it that's about it go back yeah let me let me do it forward back okay this is hole one and Palmer and there's a chronic wet area you can see the post down near the center there if you have a look at the Topography of the of the Fairway the right side is about two feet higher than where the pond is the only thing you need there is a working drain and you don't have a you don't have a wet area this is a shot looking back at the green looking back the other way gives you a better idea of the the layout of the hole here's another one this is uh hole three and on Saddlebrook there's a wet area right here there's a pond right there it's not hard to figure out what the problem is there again there's not a good working drain there this is uh hole 11 on Saddlebrook same idea between where I'm standing taking this pitcher in the green there's a there's often a wet area just ahead of ahead of me where I'm standing there's a pond on the left actually there's two ponds on the left again working drains would fix the area this is uh hole 15. same thing here the

pond is on the right in this case there's a chronic wet area there just before you get to the bunkers same problem with the drains they could be fixed in addition to this here there's some silted in and overgrown ponds that affect their ability to drain the fairways this is Saddlebrook one you can see the uh the condition of the pond on the left and then here's further down the Fairway you'll see the condition of uh just before the green of the pond there you can see how it's overgrown here's Palmer 10. that's the pond there polymer 10. here's Saddlebrook 10 with all the needles and everything around there overgrown you can barely see the drain there all conditions that can be corrected with some Masons yeah hang on that picture right there if you look at the three cypress trees then to the right you see the drain that says yeah that thing is covered with with it over the grate with pine needles but sitting there for over eight months yeah uh that was Palm where her Saddlebrook 10 wasn't it so there's some other work that's been going that's been ongoing at Saddlebrook and this is referenced earlier today this is uh where the car path was repaired but the drain was never put back up and there's been pylons there for months all right so Mr Jones said earlier there was a pipe that was replaced there's no right pipe there is oh there's no pipe there that I ever saw that's what I was talking about earlier when I mentioned it yeah whole number of going and hole number five yeah there's nothing to connect nothing the other we place the sidewalk there's two pawns connecting then it would put a pipe into place okay thank you this is on the 18th the 18th hole and uh I want to call your attention to the area on the right I just put this in for context and you see there's a drain just laying there it's taken apart and hasn't been fixed the last two pictures uh one on the left is uh is uh of um of Palmer 11 and the one on the right is of Palmer 12. those holes have been ongoing for many many months let's show these pictures to illustrate that the courses need work but not to the point that we need to tear them up they are fixable they can be restored to the Quality golf courses they were in the past over the past few months my HOA Fairway has had five public meetings with masks all the plans presented by mass show the driving range being paved over and there are detailed plans for them on the maps there's also detailed plans of area two these two areas have been consistent in every presentation they're always there all other areas are in a state of constant flux there's no plan details change constantly the plan is being developed on the Fly and no plant all plants and all the new plants are hastily put together

Geographic illustrations marked up maps and few details um we're being asked to buy in and trust that they will invest in restoring the resort yet there are no concrete plans one more paragraph I just come back to my earlier Point all of this is so mask and pave over the driving range and make millions from a high density apartment development all of that without a binding commitment to Saddlebrook this development helps one parody and one party only and that's masked there is nothing in it for us as residents or Pasco County taxpayers I ask you to save our two golf courses at Saddlebrook I ask you to reject Mass application thank you uh thank you Mr Hogan I had Sherry Hogan signed up with you and then also sign up separately this is this is a very unusual situation but I've spoken for my wife this time okay okay well thank you okay so then I have Julie uh Pines parents I think is how you say her name um and I have her for 12 minutes hi guys I've got my trusty assistance with me about my kids they're here for civics lesson two they were here for the Planning Commission uh last month so they're here just to listen and learn and my husband will run the uh slideshow so name and address sorry I'm at 5249 Saddlebrook way in Wesley Chapel so you're gonna speak for your husband uh no he'll speak he doesn't dare speak for me either of a three-bedroom condo hotel in the walking Village of Saddlebrook Resort we intentionally chose Saddlebrook for the vast mature Nature Preserve gated security and peaceful neighborhood with a strong sense of community now like I said I brought my two kids here today because I want them to really understand the importance of speaking up for your community and protecting your community I think it's important now over the past year I've learned so much from my neighbors who have lived here over 40 plus years I know that Saddlebrook is the sports Legacy property of Pasco County it was designed to attract all size business groups for sports business Leisure bringing in people from all around the United States now first off I'd like to address any argument stating that golf business is waning current trends in the hospitality Market show otherwise obviously certain factors such as covid put a hardship on the industry for a short time but those days are clearly over new golf course development is booming in Florida as you'll see on the slide according to golf pass after a decade-long post-recession hangover Golf Course development is jolting back to life in a big way particularly in Florida now you'll see I don't want to bore you with all the different courses that are being developed but it's obviously a booming industry and I just want this to be noted that in case you're not aware Mast has presented to our condo HOA members that they plan on taking our Golf Course private

thus eliminating any access to any County residents who enjoyed playing Saddlebrook for the past 25 years secondly Saddle Brook Resort is on brand for Pasco County which has rebranded itself as the Florida Sports Coast here's a quote from one of the former Commissioners Mike Moore chairman of the Pasco County tourist Development Council and Pasco County Commission he says that the with recent rebranding as Florida Sports Coast the new Wiregrass Ranch Sports Campus of Pasco County will increase our competitive role in the sports tourism Market now Saddlebrook Resort easily dovetails with other sports projects in Pasco County it's an attraction and boost to Pasco County having a world-class reputation Golf and Tennis Resort such as Saddlebrook bringing in professional athletes and Golf and Tennis enthusiasts from all over the world you'll see that local news reports have stated the following in 2022 Tampa Bay Times had a news article they quoted Adam Thomas the director of pasco's Tourism agency and they noted Financial results they've said we picked up tremendous steam since we rebranded ourselves as a Florida Sports coast and we want to keep up that momentum it shows the Practical results that happened 9254 jobs were supported 3.6 million in tourist taxes were collected 231.6 million in wages and salaries were generated Fox News in 2023 just did an article said Pasco County grows in sports destination gives boosts to local businesses and residents a new report from Pasco County Sports tourism agency Florida Sports Coast they found that visitors spent more than 636 million in the fiscal year of 2022 in Pasco County and that is up 24 since 2021. now is not the time to drive away any Golf and Tennis Hospitality offerings and jeopardize sports related revenues in Pasco County or for Saddlebrook now with respect to jobs no doubt creating additional commercial space for doctors offices and ice cream shops in the apartment development in the front of Saddlebrook could have a positive economic impact but as part of the calculus I think we need to consider what is being lost in the process now you can see the SEC filings historically Saddlebrook is employed anywhere between 500 to 800 workers and brought in tremendous economic revenues to the county and again with some thoughtful investment it could be that again large groups came in and spent money inside and outside the resort the basic infrastructure at Saddlebrook and the current business climate in Hospitality supports job growth at that same level today our Resort has many acres of land that is being used for golf tennis Hospitality business and training school so all this just leaves me with a few questions

one why would Mass want to take an existing Hospitality business which is known by the way on their website it is posted you can find their accolades as the top 100 golf resort in the world by continence traveler and chop it up into it's and chop up its award-winning Palmer Golf Course well they say they need to relocate a driving range but it's really so they can build multiple four-story apartment buildings and 900 parking spots in front of our community Resort have another question why would they risk reducing saddlebrook's golf footprint which is what has attracted so many Hospitality events and endless press and media recognition indeed a few days ago Mass Capital boasted about the importance of having both of the Arnold Palmer 18 hole golf courses on their Saddlebrook Facebook web page here's what the lovely article has to say it's from golfing magazine this is what they posted golfers from the USA the Northeast USA excuse me and Canada have been flocking to Saddlebrook for years the two Arnold Palmer design courses are surely the number one reason Mass says it needs to reduce the course to 27 holes yet a few days later they're boasting and proud about how the two Arnold Palmer design courses are giving Saddlebrook all of his attention for the golf tourism world but at the same time they want to rip it apart and replace it Mass Capital brought they basically bought Saddlebrook Resort it is a sports Hospitality Resort first and foremost within an existing planned community of 300 plus residential homes community that was carefully and thoughtfully built around and interconnected with the resort in closing Golf and Tennis hospitality is on the rise let's invest in it first not reduce it Saddlebrook has the existing infrastructure for job growth in the sports Hospitality business I wish Mass would do what they said they would do and focus on in this just invest in the existing structures they have Saddlebrook a sports Hospitality business and a Landmark property in Pasco and they get to benefit financially from Pasco County as the Florida Sports Coast but you guys are doing a great job build up the hotel build up the structures you were already permitted to build within Saddlebrook create the walking Village or Town Square within the resort there are plenty of growth opportunities within the existing permitted plans the plans that were in place when Mast purchased the resort this Resort brings in hospitality and can do so much more Reviving The Resort depends on all of the condo Tel owners to invest approximately 25 million dollars to upgrade the rooms without that there is no resort

Mast is asking our community to take a Financial Risk on our financial investment in our residential homes and condos so that mass can profit on theirs first the apartment development it's easy for them to not invest in the resort if things don't work out they can just simply choose not to or they could pack up and head back to Miami leaving us all with a forever changed Community without a sports Hospitality Resort no Landmark property business that has an existing job engine and in turn we get incompatible apartment developments in front of our community please I implore you to vote no to allowing the Redevelopment of an already established business Community a community built around Pasco County's Sports Landmark property thank you okay so then um Mr Barnes were you planning on speaking too okay so name and address for the record okay Andrew be tough to follow that thank you okay my name is Andrew Pines I live at 5249 Saddlebrook way thank you and grateful for this opportunity to come speak with you I'm going to touch on a couple of the topics that already touched on and that you're asking about the chairman Mariano mainly that the current proposal lacks traffic safety and workability um this came to us in November in the mail I talked about this at the Planning Commission more apartments are coming we counted on just what they presented here there were 24 new multi uh family complexes that have yet to be occupied just in and around the Wesley Chapel area I think there's eight I counted eight just around within a few minutes Drive accessing the 54s as well so again all this congestion is coming even without additional approvals for additional apartments in the space here's a picture I took the day before the Planning Commission this is pretty typical at Saddlebrook this is just to get out and I understand they're putting a second left-hand turn lane but they're talking about doubling so the number of units that they're proposing in the front here is literally twice the number of all the homes and the condos and the Town Homes at Saddlebrook today plus all of the trips and traffic that's going to come from 900 parking spots from commercial real estate Etc I don't see how this is going to work it's going to create congestion on the 54. it's going to create congestion within the result within the Saddle Brook just from the construction it causes safety usability issues I think pictures speak better so here's just the other day this is again not even using the service road that's supposed to be used as going into the into the residential Community this is what we're going to have to deal with on our roads we as as residents actually pay for those roads and it's just unacceptable that all this construction everything that they want to do is going to have to come and congest our community

here's a map the red arrow points to what you're asking about which is the road that they want to build to access this right off the 54. it does you know go eastbound off of here I've got even better slides here but as you can see you see right here this is the current entrance and exit all the traffic is going to naturally end up coming through there and you'll see here in a second why this is pictures yesterday I went out there and took pictures so the first one is the the end where the gate is today where they want to I stood in the middle uh over here taking pictures of what it looks like the traffic oncoming down below since we're going I'll try to wrap it up real quick here I did had a good time thanks um again more pictures oops so I can hit play on this I have I'll just skip it it's video that shows how much traffic is flying through here one way eastbound I think it's safe to assume that the service trucks that are going to be accessing this one little road are not are ideally going to be or needing to go to the 75 and here the only way they can go here is three you know three lane road with massive traffic heading east they're being asked to do u-turns they're going to ultimately take our entrance and exit because they know they can go to that signal and turn left and that's just already congested and it's only going to get worse um I'm gonna these are a lot of the issues I brought up so thank you for your time I'm going to stop here but it just unfortunately doesn't work thanks oh thank you so the last one I have for additional time is Nancy Foster four minutes um Miss Foster why are these people Nancy is a president of an HOA a matter of fact she's the lady that lives right next to the she's the closest house of the guard shack so she's representing HOA never everyone else after this person will be three minutes hi I'm Nancy Foster I live at 5485 Saddlebrook way and I would like to show you what it's like for me when Mass builds I made this mess kind of a homemade map here and I wanted to show you here uh this is the entrance going in and you've already familiar with that here's the gate house this is where they're moving the Gatehouse this is where I live I'm the first house I'm 290 feet away from this across I'm sorry cross for me is Villa De esta it's the villas with 12 units they're about 100 feet uh uh further than me so they're they're even closer uh as you know this is the golf course and you can see all the homes here that back it for their backyard over here we have a backyard for golf courses this is conservation so my concern is uh I have a tranquil place that it's going to change now I'm going to have noise level coming in I'm going to hear the traffic there's 900 parking spaces things will

be open until probably 12 1 in the morning I'm gonna have trucks coming in delivery and I'm going to miss my quiet time here so I want to show you uh exactly I hope I'm doing this right do I point it up here to get to the next one am I doing that right there all right on this side on the left side over here this is I'm on my property this is my view I can hear the Ping of a golf ball coming off the uh goth uh club and I could see um I you know players just getting ready I over I don't know if this is gonna be two or four stories I'm hearing one week it's two stories one week it's four stories this will be my view and probably this is the front of this but probably I'll see the back of it because it'll probably be facing the other way everyone in Saddle Brook who leaves this will be their View going out so I need the next slide thank you I am on Ainsworth now and as you could this is my cousin she stood there that's my property and that's my driveway over here and this is 290 feet Ainsworth is not going to be there anymore they're going to fill that in next slide all right this is their this is my house now what's interesting to me here on is that this is not a scale drawing so Ainsworth is gone here see how they built it up my house looks like it's more than 290 feet away from this I don't know why it stretched that long but anyhow right here and my neighbor this is we're going to have this traffic coming in coming in through us the Gatehouse is going to be here the little bridge that was in the picture is right about here so my concern here is not only the noise level now they're putting a chain link fence here we don't have fences in Saddlebrook there might be just a few for some reason we don't allow fences and we don't allow chain link fences so now when people come in this is what they're going to see so thank you very much you have another minute I'm done okay did I well you did it in three did I do it in three and three on the button I told you I wasn't sure I know okay any questions no okay okay thank you okay so now I'm moving to the list of standard three minute times I'm gonna actually call three of you up and if you'll line up Mark pairings followed by Tracy Maxie followed by Mary Coleman maybe or colna and name and address for the record when you come to the podium thank you Mark pairings okay then did Tracy Maxie also also leave okay thank you Miss Maxie okay my name is Tracy Maxey um my husband John and I own a home at 29449 um Azalea Lane in Saddlebrook so we have vacationed here often over the last 20 years we're relatively new homeowners moving here for retirement

we were drawn to the area because it is incredibly beautiful tranquil and has quiet private streets and teeming with wildlife it is a slice of Heaven hidden from the craziness of state route 54. every day I see amazing wildlife and picturesque views I found myself constantly sharing the beauty of the flora and fauna with my family and friends in Ohio many of these creatures are are protected like the wood stork and are unique to Florida and certainly not seen in the Midwest the sandhill crane is federally protected and as a state designated threatened species by Florida's endangered and threatened species rule its habitat is what lands and grasslands which are threatened by Wetland drainage and development additionally flooding can lead to Nest failure and this can be exacerbated by runoff from developed areas limpkins are another protected bird habitat destruction Wetland drainage and pollution impact them and their primary diet of apple snails I just washed watched this one use its specially curved beak to extract snails from the shell you can find a resort or go to a tennis tournament just about anywhere that is going to have some awesome pool with some palm trees and high-rise apartments and lots of concrete but you aren't going to find a combination of these things mixed with the neighborhood that has this natural habitat an array of birds and other creatures right outside your door so I'm not a photographer I just like to get out and walk and use my cell phone camera and see the amazing diverse creatures that I come across every day and the most amazing part is that just outside the neighborhood gate is 54 with all the hustle and bustle of traffic I'm sorry almost done and that thankfully blocks the noise and is our buffer zone by using the driving range and the Lush landscaping and Forest we looked and there is no other neighborhood like Saddlebrook turning a diverse landscape into concrete Plains and picturesque views into concrete Lego structures threatens the lives of these wonderful creatures in the very essence of the Saddlebrook community when my four-year-old grandson Jay comes to visit we don't need toys or games to keep them occupied we can just go for Gator hunt or armadillo whole Expedition or check out the Spanish moss on Cypress trees he's learning about the American green tree frogs Libra grasshoppers brown anal wild turkeys even otters we saw running from one Pond to another there are Red shouldered Hawks wood storks and Peninsula Cooter Turtles too you can find all these and More in Saddle Brook whether out on the golf course or in the marshy wetlands and cypress tree forests all these creatures survival is impact by habitat loss Wetland loss pollution and development

they must travel farther from their nest to their feeding grounds which makes them more susceptible to predators and getting hit by a car hopefully future generations of grandchildren will be able to see these creatures with their own eyes not like the dodo bird we strongly urge you to not allow the rezoning of Saddlebrook Resort that will change the character of our neighborhood and ruin the habitat of so many interesting creatures thank you so for folks coming up after your name addressed the record you're going to speak for we're going to give you three minutes and then after two minutes you're going to see the yellow light come on that means you got one minute to go after that if you would if the red light comes on just try to wrap it up quickly we'll keep it moving thank you okay Mary is it Coleman or kolnar hi I'm Mary Coleman I'm a resident of Saddlebrook we're relatively new my husband and I moved here this year but that was after several years of exploring where we wanted to be in this area and we chose it for many of the things that have already been talked about I'm also a family physician who works remotely from my home in doing telemedicine the reason I wanted to just there's some questions that just to me haven't been fully answered and I just want to bring them up so make sure you guys are thinking about them one is um just how will this mass development's population expansion affect resources that are already short in Pasco County and I very much understand the benefits of population expansion and has a lot of rewards but there are especially those rewards only come in if we really do our good planning right and accommodate the health and safety of all of us I'm worried that the resources might not be able to to keep up with the plant growth so how you know how will mass development's population expansion affect resources that relate to Health Care the total number of positions in in the in according to this Florida health chart that um was done that in in Pasco County per hundred thousand is twenty two hundred and twelve first of versus what it is in Florida which is 308 so we already have a shortage of Physicians and then pediatricians there's only seven per 100 000 versus an average of 21 in the rest of Florida um just anecdotal evidence after coming here and myself trying to find health care and get it established their Health Care Health Care delays Are Not Unusual I take care of a lot of people who can't get into people because they and so they resort to telemedicine but Rhys and I am licensed in the State of Florida um recently though I noticed an MRI for an acute onset of knee pain was delayed for more than a month echocardiogram to determine the gravity of fluid around the heart was delayed for more than a month I just think that though that there's there are some issues that maybe the rapid population Health growth of

this county has not taken into consideration and that that might be affecting us um and also um I'm wondering about how Mass projected construction expansion of the population living in the area will affect soil saturation and flooding and almost a quarter of Pasco County is wetland and it's increasing the challenges of maintaining that appropriate drainage are very much there with the rapid growth and so recent I know we read a report in their newspaper recent wasn't Lee Chapel residence experiated unexpected flooding in a hundred year flood plan thought to be due to irrigation changes caused by new developments on 56. now I don't know this is not my area of expertise but I can tell you that the land and the property and Saddle Brook where we are our Lawns are are already easily saturated after rains with limited to capacity for drainage contributing to conditions that have resulted in more mosquitoes more grub burn proliferation attracting a whole bunch of armadillos poor soil drainage unhealthy for a lot of the foliage including some 100 year old Live Oaks so my question is are we ready thank you okay thank you the next three are going to be Liz Alonso followed by Patrick Colin Burns followed by Karen Howland good afternoon Commissioners my name is Liz Alonso I live at 5140 Pine Tree Lane I'm a realtor I've lived in Saddlebrook since 1987 and have always sold only Saddle Brook properties I've never left those gates in 33 years I have first I want to just say I am totally against taking away the driving range I'm also against changing the uniqueness of Saddlebrook not having those two 18-hole golf courses and making it a 27 hole course next this is the important thing for all these other folks I have some real concerns that I'd like to share with all of you we had some High Hopes when Mass Capital bought Saddlebrook I included and we have all been let down that led me to look into what Mass capital is doing with other properties I wanted to see all the apartments they have talked about in their letter that they sent to all of us when they bought the resort and talked about it in their presentations well to my surprise I found two apartments around 240 plus units half of what they want to build on our driving range I looked up the reviews to see what their residents say about living there well what I read is awful it's really just awful I brought the reviews to show you so you can see that I'm not just picking on the bad ones I have a packet that I've given to each of you there's a slide and a video that you are going to be putting up now for you first is a mass weight Biscayne Bay video all one star reviews over the past

year one star many of the reviews say that there is trash everywhere bugs everywhere dog and urine smells in the elevators and hallways they state that the apartments are filthy and run down next Ocean Walk Apartments which Mass bought on September 14th 2014. out of 23 Yelp reviews for our five star reviews from five years ago but there are 19 one and two star reviews for five years until just a month ago always looked like slums unpainted and dirty dirty office never answers garbage everywhere poop everywhere is that what we want at the entrance to our community do you want us Community residents calling the County complaining constantly about the things these other apartment renters are having to deal with and next I want to just discuss this the question I have is if Mass was so confident that residents of Saturday but would benefit and be happy with their plans then why be so secretive and not have all five homeowner associations meet together in Saddle Brook Ballroom to discuss it which still hasn't happened and why would Mass tell its board members of the of the condo association not to share their slides with the members in the minutes your ass said not to share anything with the members until the plans have been approved by the county I have given those minutes for you to see and put in the record closing I'd like to take also Nancy's minutes or two minutes that she had we didn't get to use if it's possible I ask you to please not approve the apartment for this area we are a community and are willing to make concessions but not apartments in the entrance where it is meant to give everyone that enters the feeling of what to expect once you enter our community a feeling of calmness and Tranquility changing the look and feeling of your entrance which immediately draws you in with its beautiful flowers trees and ponds I know you see that Apartments do not belong in this area we trust and are confident that you will give all the proposals before your thoughtful consideration and how it will affect everyone now and in the years to come I'd like to also take this thought with you a private club is the first thing I heard today that I had not heard before a private club how are they going to make any money that way there aren't that many members how much are they going to raise the cost to be a member that's something new I heard today I'm just floored by that what does that mean to us as a community and club members okay Patrick Cullen Burns and if Karen how long can just line up behind him you'll be next hi good evening my name is Patrick Allen Burns I live at 5140 Cricket Lane in Saddlebrook I just wanted to talk excuse me thank you for giving the opportunity Commissioners and chairman Mariano I wanted to uh talk about a point that commissioner Weightman brought up before which is the public safety aspect to

this I did bring up the public safety aspect during the Planning Commission meeting and uh I had a question and answer session with the assistant County Attorney at that point in time he questioned me as to why there was no comment received since that meeting I understand that we received some comment from the sheriff's department but ironically enough I had the privilege and the opportunity for the last two days to host a training session with these Special Operations commanders from Pasco County Sheriff Hillsborough County Sheriff Tampa Fire Rescue and many other Public Safety agencies within our area and being the host you can kind of set your own rules so I took the opportunity at 10 30 this morning to stop the training and propose to them this question given this development would you or would you not comment on the effects given your department whether it be police Fire EMS or other to give comment to the Commissioners regarding this proposed amendment to the plan and I can state for a fact that it was unanimous that every single commander in that room would respond to this plan so I posed the question and I guess the question I have for everyone and not only the County Commission is why there was no response from either Pascal County fire or a more fervent response from Pasco County Sheriff I just wanted to leave that with your thought that's all I have any questions we're not going to do question and answer so you have a few minutes oh I'm good I'll yield the time back thank you thank you okay Karen Howland yeah motion receiving files second I need a motion thank you all in favor say aye aye she missed doing it during hers but just ask for it when you when you present can't you do before she presents it sure she's up next okay this is this is another receiving file yeah I'll make the motion second all in favor say aye aye thank you first of all I know this is a long evening so I'll try to keep this brief first of all let me introduce myself my name is Karen Haviland my address is 145 145 Collingwood Avenue Oakwood Ohio I am a hotel condo owner of 21 years and we fell in love with um Saddlebrook so much that when our hotel condo degraded down from lack of upkeep we went and we bought a condo down at Lakeside and totally remodeled it and that's where we stay now we still have a hotel condo but we don't stay there we don't bring our friends anymore or family anymore because of the condition of it but the property itself is spectacular we have since also bought a retirement home which we are in the future are going to be renovating and hope to move down to Saddlebrook um

a lot of property that gets developed in Pasco County is developed on or is developed bought and developed on undeveloped land well Saddlebrook was a bargain okay um one of the things I think that's important for Mass capital is I actually probably should be talking to them but it's probably good for us all to hear is they need to understand how the resort operates and this is huge they have removed our security from down at Lakeside and we pay condo dues and our condo dues are combined between the residents full-time and the hotel condo owners okay so we we're paying multiple condo fees and so down at Lakeside where they're more residential condos we lost our security down there and they also lost our Lakeside management and that's huge because a lot of people who live out of out of state if they have an apartment leaking up above you have to be able to call someone to get it to fix and we've spent thousands and dollars in doing repairs because of not having that having that contact now they have since I think done some corrections on that which is good to know but as far as taking the hotel first of all the resort is the whole is the whole bailiwink and the resort hotel Condor condo owners make up about 500 property owners who pay property taxes but don't cost you anything we're you know we don't have kids in school we don't have you know police issues emergency issues that the regular daily residents have so we are a bargain for you and Saddlebrook is a huge employer so I'm not going to go into all the other stuff but a hotel condo cannot be turned into a private resident Mike was suggested earlier Hotel condo owners have no electric bill because the condo association pays it is one bill same with water there is no parking you have to park on the resort property to access your condo you have to have access to a resort golf cart to access your condo there are no laundry facilities in these Hotel condos either so they're not livable um but I just want to share that with with everyone anyways thank you very much for your time and um please we we put all our hope in you Mr chairman ma'am so you asked for something to be received and filed which you didn't reference in your testimony so what was it that you had you asked them to receive and thought letters letters from from residents uh writing to you about um their thoughts are you going to pass those out no I'm trying to get everything okay thank you sorry okay thank you um so I'm going to ask the next three to line up so Julia bartunik would be first followed by Denise Reichenbach followed by Keith Swope yeah hi my name is Julia bartunek and I live at 2645 Meadowood Drive Newport Richie Florida 34655 and I'm here as uh representative from the Sierra Club Pasco conservation committee

the Sierra Club Pasco conservation committee supports measures here today to preserve Wetlands concretizing Wetlands impact drainage and in this case p50 the federally listed endangered woodstork to note habitat Wetland preservation for the sandhill crane is imperative because they will migrate back to the said same habitat section when it is paved then slowly die they never relocate the gopher tortoise Burrows located in these areas need preservation since they provide habitat for 350 species when Burrows are tragically covered the tortoises die slowly suffocating unable to dig out sometimes up to six months notwithstanding other species critical to a balanced environment which Fosters mental and physical health thus the targeted hardwood Conifer area needs protection please consider saving these critical habitats this project as it stands is not recommended by the Sierra Club Pasco conservation committee additionally important for inclusion in all developments supported by Sierra Club is building sustainably compatible vertically where possible dark sky lighting EV charging stations solar resourcing and EV train systems Transportation thank you and I would like to have a motion and attained please to submit my comments into the record please and thank you you have a motion comments this comes okay do I need to receive biologists they just comments okay they're already on the Record Man I would like to submit the paper yes I would like to submit this okay approval second all in favor say aye all right all right thank you yeah Denise Wright Reichenbach I think okay thank you hi everyone I'm Denise Reichenbach my husband Rick and I lived at 5017 Pine Lake Road Wesley Chapel in Saddlebrook um I had a whole thing but uh I don't think I need to say that whole thing because a lot of people have already said it uh Rick and I specifically bought the home uh that we're in right now because it has a 180 degree view of both the Palmer and Saddlebrook Golf Courses probably about seven different holes that we can see greens and driving ranges um obviously we put a lot into it we've had a lot of concerns and there's hasn't been a lot of details um until recently about what's going to go behind us and it was clear to us that the reason that there was an area one um and there was going to be the apartments there that everything that's in area one had to move somewhere what I heard today though is uh it was good news and I believe somebody helped get it on the record is that we were told that anybody with a that currently has a golf course View today will maintain their Golf Course view I don't know that we're going to maintain seven holes of golf and two different golf courses but that's a real relief to hear and I would

just want it on the record too that it's not just a golf course view that I just want to be clear that it's not going to be golf related right which would be golf maintenance and the equipment and chemicals and everything and or laundry I didn't know about the laundry that that could be in our backyard too so um appreciate that that's been put on the record very much appreciate all the the time and the questions and and the Quest for details that all of you have been asking about and that um that you're going to help protect our investment in in our property in Saddlebrook as well that's it thank you have any questions okay thank you Keith swoop soup hi I'm Keith Swope 5066 foxhood Drive I just want to talk about common sense our first trip to South was in 1979. and my first impression was a golf course is gorgeous these peaceful so quiet I was ready to move as soon as I saw it always says too far to go so second trip was two years later in 1981 I convinced my wife to purchase a lot to build on even though it's 15 minutes for the nearest grocery store the benefits of a peaceful secure Sanctuary was well worth it we just the resort first came in it was great 18 more holes of golf all the tennis scores exciting tournaments and a beautiful Resort pool however the last 18 years have not been good it's not been maintained properly we've been praying for a while some of you come in and take it over take care however now we have now they have there's been a lot of changes that we don't know what's going on and we just have a lot of questions what are the business plans has anybody even seen them short-term plans we know those they want to in order to rebuild or Resort the course they're going to have to change to get rid of the range put Apartments town house and shopping areas get rid of nine holes of golf and we have a long-term plans once you've moved the range you put 14 plus apartments you seal the fate of the resort in 10 years a front door Resort will be 400 plus 10 year old apartments that peaceful Serene entrance will have 400 10 year old apartments that you drive in to welcome everybody this board is our only hope what you decide today will determine what happens the saddlebrook's long-range future at least see what the long-term plan is we don't know what that is there's got to be a better way than open 1400 Apartments in the front door of a result thank you very much okay thank you the last three I have signed up are Rebecca pairings followed by Anne schlachter followed by Dan Richardson Rebecca pairings um and Anne and then Dan I think also

left okay so I do not have anyone else signed up for public comments okay I don't know if there's anyone else that are raised it's a hand up is there anyone else in the public who would like to speak that was on the list please line up [Music] is there anyone on WebEx that's holding there is no one else on WebEx [Applause] my name is Geraldine mayerman I actually live in the Groves off of 41 but I own an apartment at Saddlebrook in the condo hotel I've owned there since 1985. so I'm one of the the first ones when they talk about rental returns there is a long list and I'm not going to go into the details now but if your unit is used 20 days out of the 90-day quarter you don't get the rental returns by the time they chop it up into all the different people that get a piece of it or different department to get a piece of it maybe we get a third if that also I was just informed that well I know that they want to do Renovations and that this is going to cost the condo owners anywhere between Thirty and sixty thousand dollars each I'm a retired school teacher I don't have that kind of money but I may lose my apartment now the other thing is they said you can take it out of the rental pool that's fine except that do they say that I'm going to lose my club private privileges even though I pay them I pay them quarterly but I won't be if my apartment is not in the rental pool they're saying that I will not be able to even come over and play golf as a member use the pool nothing um they say they're going to allow us to lease the units for a year but the people that Lisa can't use the laundry facilities they can't use the trash they can't use the parking lot and they will not have a membership they can't use the pool or any of the other things that are around there this is very disturbing to me because basically Mast is putting those that don't have large checkbooks out of Saddlebrook so I think you need to keep that in in mind um it's inconsistent to what they've been telling us we do pay HOA fees we do pay Resort maintenance fees and club fees and we're not going to be able to have anything thank you please everyone The Lex speaker yes good afternoon my name is Barry shine my wife and I have been coming to Saddlebrook for 20 years we own seven units in the condo hotel and we own a house at 5151 Pine Lake Road so we are a member of the condo

association as well as a member of the Fairway Association let me say I'm not sure that the Coalition people were truly transparent they did not say how many people they represent there are many of our friends who live in Fairway that did not join the coalition they do not represent our view and they made the impression on everybody that they represented all of the homeowners this is not true I am not only an owner I am also a member of the condo association board of directors and I act as the treasurer of that organization I've worked very closely with mass in preparing the budget for the 500 and some units that make up the condo hotel and the condo association they masked now has become the manager of that Resort providing services to all of the condo owners in so doing I work very closely with them related to making the budget for this year and analyzing what had been spent in the past by the prior owner I believe they are people of integrity I believe they will do what they say they will do and I believe they need to have some development to create the earnings and the funds available to make the needed repairs and improvements in the resort as a board member I have been involved with our attorney in drafting the Declaration or deed restriction which was most important to all people associated with this property to make sure in perpetuity the golf course would remain a golf course and not when they're gone or when they're there more development would come before you for additional development of that Golf Course to lose those views and the beauty of the golf course so that is a critical part of this development plan I wouldn't I would encourage you to not be swayed by a minority of people that don't represent all of the homeowners and all of the condo owners that live in this development I would encourage you to and make some way conditional that the promises made here today with the plans that are here today are actually implemented I'm a Layman I don't know how to do that but if they do we will have a better Resort in Pasco County and that Resort will attract quality people to Saddlebrook and to the entire area thank you questions no questions I oh we got one more speaker well I just want to know how many how many homes how many units are in Sanford so do you oh this is Mike Sullivan he's the go ahead okay I can ask I can ask anyone afterwards thank you thank you I am W Michael Sullivan uh professor emeritus now I bought a place in Saddlebrook

about two decades ago my wife and I found it thought it was a gems said here's a place we're going to learn to live so when we stop being practicing snowbirds we can land and stay we both play golf I spend 40 years at the University of Rhode Island teaching in what was a golf and sports turf management coursework I have been a lead Consulting on golf courses current value of somewhere around 300 million dollars so I have some sense of the design work and capability of Reese jonesing company I have some fairly well-developed idea of what the courses need what the land needs at Saddlebrook people repeatedly have told you the drainage system is failed yes it's not a quick fix it would require thousands and thousands of yards of excavation to create it and make it functional the same for the irrigation system a good irrigation system has a lifespan of 20 to 25 years these are well past that that requires a lot of cash to repair that Mr chairman with all due respect to your golf capability the greens are a vast Improvement of two years ago they're still in very poor shape I disagree PGA or other league we've tried to bring Northeastern universities to Saddlebrook in recent years for spring Collegiate tournament to help the local economy the courses don't meet the conditions the other real issue with those conditions are the youthful flexibility of the student now or the younger golfer when Mr Palmer was on the course in his best day his t-ball was 230 to 250 yards today a pgo pro on the LPGA Tour they're averaging 310 on the PGA tour it's 3 30 340 350. it's less than 325 yards from the from the tee boxes on the current practice facility to Route 54. so you have some safety issues if you continue to maintain it there that's a revenue I look at it yes it will change the entrance it'll change the sense of Passage but it's a revenue stream to make the necessary repairs the necessary upgrades to improve the quality of the residual facilities I look out at the proposed new practice facility I will see a small building that'll house the students or the residents in rain and I want to go hit some we have spent a lot of time talking to the mass people they have shared every rendering every drawing every presentation that we've asked them for so the suggestion that they're difficult to deal with I haven't had that experience the give me one more minute one more step um the needs of the course courses are substantive I can live with the idea that we have negotiated and I'll leave it to them to present what I would call a very enforceable conservation easement a deed restriction that lives beyond all of us so that should golf continue as it is in the nation we're losing 100 to 120 golf courses a year in the United States

Florida is the outlier it's even or growing 0.2.3 percent that's because all of us from New England are moving here and want to keep playing but there'll come a time where we won't and so I like the idea of a legacy agreement that says should golf fail you now have an area that was once two golf courses that evolved to 27 polls but also now remains as open space and perpetuity for the Wildlife many have suggested are their most valuable so I would urge you to carefully consider the pros and the cons and I thank you having sat for 20 years on local boards at home thank you for your seat time today and your endurance Mr Sullivan before you leave your address for the record oh I'm sorry here it's unit 659 where my wife is and I still won't she's all the way in Rhode Island 35 Cliff Drive Narragansett Rhode Island and I still won't speak thank you my name is Dan augustatis and I'm at 5346 Pine bark Lane and the question I've gotten is Raising world of crime I want to know if mass is planning on converting our streets from private streets to public streets even though if they say they're going to keep Gates you can't stop people from coming in once it goes to public roads just want to put it on the record I want that that cleared up highly unlikely the county would take them from them just yep Justice I've been in some subdivisions and they've gone from private to public and it's caused nothing but a rise in crime because they can't control it well look for that that's it uh yeah well the any any other public comment anybody wish to speak that hasn't spoken yet okay and there's nobody on web apps correct so Public public comment will be closed um I'll have the applicant come up do you want to ask questions to your staff first um or do you want to have the applicant come up I last one I want to ask some questions to the staff or to the board I mean to the other well just I can do it to the staff it doesn't matter they're here so from from a procedural standpoint I'd rather you have the staff and then this little height you can rebut them if necessary okay when she comes up for her rebuttal and get it over with one we're going to ask that for Terry or who's that who's coming up good evening commissioner yeah I'm going to ask you a question all right commissioner all right Terry I um I've listened to both sides and I understand what Mass has said and what What the residents have said somewhere in the middle is the right fix for the residents and for Mass my problem is if we don't tremend transmit this today I don't know where that's going to leave our citizens with uh property that needs to be redone or

put some things on to bring it back to life that it'll be very much more profitable it'll be more financially stable as far as the homes but I don't want lead I don't want to say no to this and then come up and they're not at the still the residents aren't at the table anymore you just got Mass so I'd like to see them come together I don't know how the best way is for them to come together but they need to meet in the middle so both parties win if you know what I'm saying so if if this has turned down today what happens with this project how would it go forward you mean to say if the transmittal is denied if the transmetal is denied what happens what does that leave the residents because I know they want something better than what some of that they have so where does that leave them if we deny it today so I'm going to throw the planning director a Lifeline um because it's really a legal legal question if transmittal is denied the applicant has the ability to go back through the whole process again but the applicant is left with resix and they can do whatever they can do in Red six and maybe whatever vested rights they still have on the property from their original approvals you've not done invested rights determination on this property but the chairman pointed out that there are there are things in their approvals that they never used I don't know whether whether this board would give them vested rights to do a nine-story building there's a pro there's a different process for that but the answer to your question is they can do red six they might be able to do something more if the if they had were determined to have vested rights by this board but it and you can ask the applicant it probably um creates a problem for their for their Redevelopment right so then that that problem causes a resonance a problem also because that way they don't come up meet together and and have maybe a downsize Resort that's better than it is today because I was out there working in in the 80s when when it started and I serviced Saddlebrook with fresh orange juice from the fruit stand right there 75 and 54 and I was there for about 11 years until most all the oranges froze out but they were very viable Resort at that time and it was great times and some people probably remember how it was but I want them to see them succeed but I want them to meet with mass somewhere in that matter where they will succeed I just hate to see the fact that it would

kind of go away and be whatever you can do out of red six and then of course you might get some remodeling and all but I don't know if financially it'll be able to do some of that with a new way they've purchased the property so that's my concern if I could um something to think about you know our Land Development code has one thing that's that starts off and the first thing we're supposed to do before we're going to submit a plan like this let's have a neighborhood meeting they said that their early set of early citizen participation in an informal firming in conjunction with development approval applications to provide the applicant an opportunity to understand any impacts the neighborhood may experience now I will tell you if they did have that neighborhood meeting with everybody in one shot and I think saddleboard could have accommodated very easily as we all know right had they done that those that meeting could have got them the opportunity to actually consider maybe they wouldn't mind more density in the central part of it keeping the nature all around it but they didn't do that matter of fact frankly this thing in my opinion never should even seen the process going forward because they didn't have that meeting ahead of time before they submitted which is in the code um it's definitely significant across the board the land use change is being done and you know one thing that you mentioned you know what's going to happen to me if we don't do something I will tell you the apartments out there will be surely devastating never mind the apartments we got coming all around we saw the map commissioner did you have a question for stats no I'm talking because he made a statement I'm going to talk and I have the floor thank you in a minute um when we when we look at what's going to happen to the people if we don't do something and they go try to build Apartments I granted research they could probably have limitations that's going to be effective to to directly destructive to what goes on from what we've heard with the citizens going out there well what I see at this point it would be better I think that they continue it and I don't know how long that continuance should be to a point that mass has a definite plan engraved in the sand that stays there that they can present to all the residents and come up with that plan that they all meet and greet together on it that'll make celebrant like it was back in the 80s much better than it is today because I know the people coming from the north and all that's changed smaller groups probably can come in from anywhere in the United States here because this is a destination to come to

you we know that uh but I just hate to see it fail because it you know we don't have a good plan that residents can agree to today I can tell you what most of the residents don't seem to want anything but in fact I honestly believe they do once I think they just want it better than what they've been shown or told by mass at this point commission thank you Mr chair in Commissioner of that appreciate your sentiment the question would be you know kind of had an impasse and you know measuring both parties I am extremely grateful that somebody's willing to have picked up Saddlebrook and want to give it a shot in the arm and bring it back to life it's fantastic it's fitting into what Wesley Chapel and sports tourism Market that we have and then increasing the investment of the homeowners uh but today I saw a plane that I haven't seen before or my office has seen before and uh learned a few things and have a list of questions um so the piggyback or commission Oakley is is it is it appropriate to continue this item to work it out because I I'm not comfortable with shutting something down when I think if we eat a little bit more time we work together to come up with a quality product in a success story here so I guess my question is to Danny attorneys if it's is there an option to continue this item for there's always an option for continuance but you haven't heard at heard anything from the applicant at this point you were still in staff in okay um Mr chairman all right so so you had had a question for staff yeah okay so my question is Steph is back with the traffic study there's a third party who conducted a study uh how's that measured with what the county has diagnosed so at the at the conference plan level we do what's called a transportation needs assessment as a project progresses and gets into entitlement considerations under zoning we'll do what's called a timing and phasing analysis but the transportation needs assessment was reviewed by staff and the conclusion that was that came from the assessment was that adjacent roadways will be operating within except within the acceptable levels of service and actually the red six would generate more trips than the proposed PD would and so that's what enabled that conclusion or those conclusions enabled us to move forward with the analysis of the comprehensive plan Amendment online right now is Mr or Dr Amir jamali who actually did the transportation needs assessment review so if there's any particular questions related to that conclusion he could provide some some support and answer so my question to

that would be obviously this third-party study is a challenge to what this accounting is determined so I'm curious to see how far off they are from one another Amir were you able to hear that question yes [Music] actually the county has not done any study the study has been done by links Associates which is the traffic engineer hired by Mass and we only review their traffic to study and their traffic study shows all of the roadway adjacent to this project which are sr54 segments from Kelly Road to Bruce B downs we are going Oregon cooperate within acceptable level of service and they are not exceed we overseer of one under a follow-up question with that the report that was said earlier from the Transportation expert said it was at 98.6 percent capacity so does that mean 1.4 away from failing is that is that an accurate number [Music] and it's not going to be paid geography can you define d over C I'm here can you define v over C for the publicity [Music] generalized tables which is [Music] such projects in English please basically a VC ratio of one would equal that you row to that capacity a VC ratio of a one would indicate that your road is at capacity basically the volume of traffic matches the volume allowable onto the road and that's what the professor numerator in the denominator are equal incorrect so are we at 0.98 then we're measuring from the level of service though which is not what is the level of service Amir no no students which it which amounts to uh what numerical value [Music] and while he's looking at uh your level of service on a road varies so you can have a level of service of a which is free flow of traffic all the way to failure where it's complete standstill so when we talk about acceptable levels of service a level of service D for example would recognize at certain peak times you're going to have a lot of traffic it's a way to help optimize the sizing of your roads we can't build seven Lane freeways to have level of service of a at all times we have to allow Peak out or to congest quite honestly so what's our grade what's our letter what so so what is our what is the letter then what's I'll I'll let the expert go I heard him say d in this particular case there's a couple laymens out there so I'm right there with you here so yeah thank you so for a d how

close are we to is the next one f I think that's what amir's currently uh foreign [Music] once you're walking on it's going to be 5 305 so there are almost 100 trips doing from the failure I'm going to ask a question this might help you I know so so let me ask you a question it used to be when we did a PD we would have the MPD coming with it and in it we'd have all the documents for transportation you guys would normally go through it dissect the whole thing and met me part of the report so when we heard the land use we would hear the zoning as well at the same time not for transmittal you do that for adoption and that's what this one is queued up to be but not you you never you couldn't approve the mqd rezoning and transmit the comprehensive plans Amendment to the state because then your zoning would be inconsistent you couldn't adopt it but you would have at least that document at some point early on where they could look at it I mean we haven't even get the concept planned and we've got a new concept planned as of today I mean if I may God Mr chairman the the idea here I mean so this is a public hearing and the whole purpose of these is basically for people to see the progress of the project and make comment on it and what we have done in the Planning Development Department is essentially stagger the comprehensive plan amendments with the consideration of the mpuds so that we can collect public comment understand what issues may exist and then incorporate having understood and heard all of this incorporate those concerns into the mpud conditions of approval we bring the projects forward to the LPA and to the transmittal hearings if there is one because sometimes it's just a small scale and then and uh having received public comment and feedback we then take that information and translate it into the MPD conditions of approvals if we're doing an mpud on such a project and uh at that point as the county attorney mentioned Mary the two workflows together so that when the adoption comes around for the company it's a plan Amendment there is a complete mpud conditions of approval package that hopefully responds to all of the concerns that have been enumerated from from the podium all right but Terry the land use says a plan says a landed on the code says we do a neighborhood meeting with a full plan shown to the people clearly that hasn't been done matter of fact before the Planning Commission he was even heard this was going to be on consent heard over in Newport Richie we remanded it back so we got a hearing but even from that point we're getting new information back that if we're going to use the information from the feedback for the people to make something that might work and again as the gentleman said he doesn't think the nine-story complex would work well maybe if you had the

conversation and centralize it maybe it would have but we didn't have that is there something wrong with doing that I mean we just had another development where you actually shut it down because they didn't do what they were supposed to do shouldn't this have been shut down by not having the concept plan well I mean a concept plan was submitted it has changed over time and the evolution of a concept plan uh in response to comments that are being made by the public both at various neighborhood meetings but also in these proceedings I think it's kind of a healthy thing because it's showing that staff is listening and the applicants are responding to most comments you can't always go to multiple neighborhood meetings that are not being watched by everybody but you can come to a public hearing which is being watched by everybody Terry we're at Saddlebrook Resort they've got an auditorium you can feed a thousand people this is not one of those occasions they could have had everybody in the one room they were asked to have everybody in one room they didn't do it they didn't want to do it well I'm just saying that I think the applicant can probably speak for themselves on that one yeah Mr chairman Mr chairman uh let me go to commissioner Bradford first and then I then commissioner okay Mr Bradford you know I ran for this job to uh make decisions and this is a hard one I want you to know I hear everybody I hear people making million dollars investment your residents saying we want Saddlebrook bags with its original Glory I remember Saddlebrook I play golf there wasn't very good at it don't play golf anymore lived on Northdale Golf Course lived on Plantation Palms Golf Course and it's cursory knowledge of golf courses I am in no way an expert like a professor but I would say this I do believe in transparency and I like everything transparent I want to know what's going on I want the facts whether it's the facts from a developer or faction County staff for the facts and fellow commissioner I want the facts kind of warn opinions I want the facts I get paid to make my own opinion and that's where I'm at right now I want to put that on the table uh the other thing that a good friend of mine told me when I took this job and won he said you do what you think is right and uh always do what you think is right and I haven't forgotten that so my comments girl Mr Starkey yeah so I have a couple questions um I had the County Administrator get the map that and this is before some of you are on this board um and I don't remember what we call this what is this called again

yeah can you explain what this is and hey this has a lot more on it than I wanted to vote for but Commissioners wanted more in their District Subway we expanded this so what is this so the urban service area also known as an urban concentration here I don't know I'm anyone else okay here we go so the urban service area also sometimes referred to as an urban concentration area the intent is to service a more urban environment hence the name I know it's a bad way to define something but essentially this is where you're going to concentrate all of your utilities um you're going to make this is where you're going to make your major roadway Investments and this is where you're going to try to put as much of the population that you can in order to service them within a smaller geographic area so the red what you see is the urban service area um it it encompasses both both the West Market area which is the coastal portion of Pasco County and then the South market area which is the southern portion up to about 301 the South market area matches the urban service area uh it also includes the extensions to the urban service here which is those um finger-like extensions that are going up up the I-75 Corridor up around State Road 52 and then those areas along State Road 54 north and south of it just west of Zephyr Hills effort was asking when did we adopt this is the urban service area I believe I was a state mandated requirement um you remember the day 2010. and so this is our this is what we call kind of our blueprint for growth and where where this board and this community because it was a publicly vetted document has said we want to put density is that correct uh yes the comprehensive plan calls for density within the South market area and West Market area for the urban service area so if we if if there is a company or someone coming and wanting to invest in our County and they see this map they know that this is this is the law kind of that we follow that this is where we say we want density I mean they make business decisions based on this is that correct they may make business decisions yeah they may make business decisions based on this because this is where this is the area that we've said we want density this is this is where you are supposed to concentrate your infrastructure okay that's and and well it's an urban service area that's where you're in you're increasing yours your services yes then the the consequences that is you can approve more density because you've got facilities to serve and we just opened overpass on 75 adding more

public investment and infrastructure in this area and I don't know what that hash mark is but is that I guess some of these hash marks are Village of Pasadena Hills and what none of those hash marks those are the extensions that I was referring to if you recall this this was developed in the in 2000 2010 is correct it was but it was developed because changes in state law disadvantaged Pasco County unlike Hillsborough County dris could not be abandoned there the the doula which was the which was the name that was given to the dense Urban land land land something but anyway we we developed the planning department at the time strategic growth administrator developed this concept which we fought with Tallahassee about to allow us to create the urban service area and um and allow increased density the extensions were areas that folks wanted to be in but the state didn't want us to put said it was premature so that's what those extension areas are historically we're all about okay and so my mind like I said I learn a lot I gotta jump on um some of the issues coming when you listen to the Planning Commission like I said I I I heard what the residents were saying about the gate the school some other things and so I was able to do my homework and ask those questions so that's why I put in the time listening to the Planning Commission and I heard Denise speak I heard the Planning Commission members questioning why they didn't have a more detailed plan and I'm looking for it here and I heard Denise explain that this is what do you call it a transmittal transmittal here not not where all those other things get etched in stone or whatever you want to call it so what what what are they required to submit what is what is the depth of design because I don't think they were ready for that that I think that's why they didn't have it written but and I I'm not saying that uh well I'll make that comment about their process later but what were they required to submit for this transmittal well I I don't have the actual application requirements in front of me to read it off top my head but in general with the plan development you're going to be required to submit a sub-area policy that's no one's going to know what that is so what is it yeah so much like there are other policies in the comprehensive plan that are that are directing how development should take place within the county a sub-area policy or companies that plan development and it it essentially defines what the development is going to

be and also direct it in terms of the design so in a sub-area policy you can start adding things in there to say thou shalt have Trails Thou shalt do this or that and you can make these broad enumerations within the sub-area policy at the comprehensive plan stage where if you if you can imagine we're like 30 000 feet uh in terms of what we're looking at and then as the project moves through its life cycle it then gets it lower uh in altitude to maybe 15 000 feet when you start talking about what kind of entitlements are going to fulfill the sub-area policy that's been enumerated so again going back to the plan development you're going to have the sub area policy you're going to have a concept plan that's going to illustrate what that sub-area policy could be but that's not the final plan then that plan is going to be worked on and we're going to figure out what kind of conditions are going to be needed in order for this to be properly implemented that's what the mpud is going to figure out but the mpud is not going to get totally detailed either at that point because it's simply a zoning District it's setting up the zoning parameters for how this development is going to look it's going to talk a little bit more detail than what the comprehensive plan did again given feedback and input that's being received from public hearings and then finally you're going to come in for a landing when it well I shouldn't say Landing you're going to come in at about 5 000 feet with the site development the preliminary site plans and the preliminary development plans that are actually going to design the project I won't say Landing because Landing will be when building permits get issued but that's basically how you're going to approach project in every case so we are going to talk about design that is the heavy design discussions are going to come at the preliminary site plan stage when we're actually comparing what they're proposing against what's in the mpud but also what's what's in the Land Development code okay so I I think they've gone pretty they've gone far beyond that here already but um that so that was one of my questions um and for the planning director do you know how many units are in Saddlebrook now off the top of my head I think someone will get me that I think the applicant has the information and traffic says did that contemplate the overpass being open or was that done before it was open I I would presume that it was done right before it opened as the transportation needs assessment was submitted in August okay and also um where but I mean American confirmed um so [Music]

uh the economy so the answer is that it did consider overpass open because it was looking at the 2045 and um long-range Transportation plan so overpass so I did consider that overpass would be open yeah okay and it passed commission waiter thank you Mr chairman so again really want to emphasize my question about traffic what's our letter grade what's our number uh I'm a little disappointed that that's not something that we don't know as we're planning projects that have this level of volume of folks traveling yet uh I don't know if anybody's traveled overpass lately but it's a little it's full um so I guess that's a good thing but it's it's full um so again I really want to understand the the traffic issue um and that's something that I'm not hearing Clarity on my next question is I'm sorry commissioner if I could I mean if the applicant comes back up you can obviously ask their traffic engineer the question he is here the next question is is if the transmittal goes through today we're not obligating the County's not obligating itself to approve the plan that's been shared with us today it's merely approving that there's a potential project and potential area I want to make sure that that we understand that if it does if there is a transmittal that we're not locking ourselves into something that we can't undo or ask questions or modify or work through over the coming weeks months ahead so I really want some clarity on the transmittal and what uh should there be a yes vote what that means to to us and for the folks out there that's illegal yes um so transmittal get you the input of state government as to the plan which is being submitted you have not adopted an ordinance changing the future land use maps that when transmittal when DCA sorry all day um Deo gets gets the the comprehensive plan package from us they will look at it they have X number of days to make comment and get it back to us prior to our adoption and then we have so many days to either adopt it or turn it down once it comes back the only thing that today is transmittal does is it sort of locks in the maximum density that Deo is going to review and comment

so whatever we're putting in it is is all they're going to look at so it's going to be difficult to add things later so if it were to transmitter were to go forward come back Fort says don't like it or whatever we can come up with a new plan and send another transmitter yes I don't see any reason why you couldn't resubmit to to Deo a comprehensive plan but you you that you'd end up turning down that you wouldn't adopt that ordinance which in fact would be denying it and then you 'd be able you'd start the process over again Jeff can I asked thank you Mr chair uh I remember someone saying that the state Harley ever comments on these is that a true statement though the level of commenting from that state agency has decreased dramatically in the last 25 years sounds like a lawyer as Terry said I think in the beginning of this hearing um they do comment from time to time but I'm dating myself but but back when I started they'd tell you you shouldn't the local government you shouldn't adopt this I don't think that that is going to happen very much anymore yes sir that's all I need to know um my questions for our staff at this point we'll talk about bringing back up later Terry but okay all right the applicant it's an unruly amount of notes here so I have to try to not drop on my papers Barbara Wilhite for the applicant commissioner Starkey to answer your question regarding the number of units that have been constructed within the Saddlebrook mpud there are 718 there's 373 Resort units in the walking Village there's 172 Resort units in the Lakeside Village there's 173 residential units in Fairway Village as confirmed by the zoning administrator and a zoning determination that she made after reviewing a whole bunch of information some time ago we're going to bring Steve Henry up but let me just I need to address neighborhood meetings and plans and all these things we've had multiple neighborhood meetings we've had no requests by anybody that says that they haven't been able to get the information that they need we've had a lot of attendance over time at these meetings and a lot of meetings the concept plan the MPD concept plan that I handed out is just that it's an MPD concept plan it has a level of detail that's doesn't belong in the comp plan and it and that's why you have a concept plan but let me tell you when they stand up here and say they don't have information the first people to see that concept plan was this group represented by Miss Jane Graham we sent it to her before anybody else saw it on

the 25th of January we submitted to the county on the 27th after we met with them to go over it we answered all their questions we asked for comments we asked for feedback we didn't get any to date we still don't have any I don't think you've got any feedback on anything that they would like to see us change they oppose and want you to deny our ability to move forward but they have the information we provide the information we've had Community meetings and provided the information so the information is there staff didn't include the MPD consulate plan in your package because it doesn't relate to the comp plan but what happens is when I try to when we try to do what we're supposed to do we're in comp plan everybody asks for more detail then we get more detail and then we get criticized about giving more detail so it's really a class that can't win situation where I can tell you that we're giving all the information we're being transparent we're having those Community meetings we're meeting with people and but still there's this question of on information we have a very specific pdcon PD sub-area plan that meets the requirements of exceeds the requirements of your comprehensive plan as to what you need to do for a PD plan development comp plan amendment to move forward we have a sub-area policy that's got the guiding principles in it we've got a specific plan that says what we're going to do where and let me tell you there was a criticism about the land use equivalency exchange Matrix I'm fine with just taking it out because we can stand here and tell you that what we proposed on that sub-area plan is what we're going to do so it's to give flexibility that's why you do a land use equivalency Matrix is to give flexibility but we're willing to say what can you explain what that is because sure so one of the criticisms of our our documents that we heard today obviously could have heard this before but we're not hearing that kind of communication we're not getting communication with the save sad about Coalition folks we're not getting any communication unlike the condo association where we've worked with them every day daily about where things are going to be located what things are going to look like and you can hear they were here today in support because of that level of work we've done with them the criticism was about the land use equivalency Matrix that says in the Sudbury policy the comp plan it says here's what's being what's the maximum here's the uses that are allowed on the compound and here's the maximums it's got multi-family and a number it's got town homes and a number um yes yes and so the report we just got with the minuscule font that none of us can read yeah I'm reading that one now you have a Sudbury policy that you can read in your package 5 000 square foot restaurant

yeah you can you you have a Subway policy in your package you can read it's exactly what the density stand it out to us look at the font size of that you get all this white space down here look at the font size you guys picked and we get this right before the meeting so back to the question commissioner Starkey asked in the land use Subway policy which you can all read it's in your package it provides for the ability to do a land use equivalency Matrix exchange so it says here's the uses that are being approved and the maximum units in square footage but it says oh but we can change those numbers through the mpud and so there's a criticism regarding that what I'm telling you is that I'll take that out we don't have to have any flexibility we're so confident what we've asked for in our comp plan because we've analyzed this and gone over this for a very long time that the densities and intensities and the uses in that comp plan we don't need to exchange them we don't need to change them at the mpud so we can have the comp plan look just like the mpud so what I'm telling you is that we know what we're going to need to do we know what we want to do and we don't need to change things without coming back to a public hearing process so I just want to offer that to you again to tell you that every time I hear a concerned we address the concern and that's the only concern that I heard that I said okay I'm fine with that I can live with not changing anything at the MPD level I'll live with what we have in our comp plan and what we're proposing will be the same as what we have in the in the zoning so I want to throw that out there let me um have our transportation consultant come up there's quite a few questions regarding that so I want to make sure that he can explain that to you before we get to Transportation I want to just bring up a point um on the agenda item I got here it was 1979. you talk about the development conference facilities up to 500 people 950 salable condos to the resort complex um a new nighthawles of golf and then it says in here a road system that will set the mood for the arriving guest and have adequate alternatives for fire protection so the service road to the side was designed specifically to give fire trucks go that way as well as all the other trucks the drive coming in the road system setting in as you drive in where that range was was designed to be as Mrs barbetta showed how the look came up so when you look me in the eye and look at these board members in the eye and tell us that you listen to what their complaints were and you've addressed them you're missing the point they don't want the apartments I don't know how you missed that I didn't say that I satisfied them I said

I said that I answered I said that I answered their questions you're not going to satisfy everybody but yeah I remember thousand people were noticed about this meeting and you had 17 people speak here yeah well I have a question on that so I just want to make sure you understand that you know the numbers of what we're talking about but Barbara this board asked you to have a meeting with everybody know whether you wanted to do it or didn't want to do it it didn't get done you have the capacity to meet everybody in one shot and it didn't happen we have had we feel but you've got to do what the board asked you to do well the board actually I mean you asked permission or you asked chairman we had consensus that's correct you asked and we had consensus well I don't believe that to be true I believe that we have had Community meetings we've had adequate Community meetings other than these 17 people rest of people have got the information they have the information by the way I'm not sure what else you would achieve in a community meeting other than giving information and receiving comments and we've done that over and over and over and we do that outside of meetings so formatted meetings the fact is that we've had meetings we've given all the information out we've received comments from people that want to comment and work with us and then there's a group that don't want to work with us that want you to deny us and that's what they've come here today and are asking you to do that doesn't move this project forward we're moving this project forward is looking at it and when commissioner Starkey asked do we have the information that we've provided required by the code and the and the comp plan to transmit a compliment amendment to start this process the answer from staff is yes my answer is yes we actually see the information that we're supposed to send for transmittal so and by the way we're decreasing units so all of the conversation about impact on resources the comp plan allows 1779 units we're reducing that we're reducing your comp plan to 620. and that's where I actually want to talk have Steve Henry talk to you because he actually did an analysis that he's not required to do because I told him go ahead and do the analysis because if you look at do an analysis because transmission needs assessment because if you look at those trips that that 1779 number generates versus what we're reducing the comp plan trip generation to do it's actually a reduction not an increase so with that I would really like for him to talk to you about the transportation issues let me look at my notes I want to make sure that my team is going to answer the rest of the questions that were raised but let's let's have him talk to you about Transportation if you would Give me Steve Henry links and Associates we did conduct the the transportation needs assessment so first I want to talk about the some of the comments that we

got and as far as the analysis we did as Barbara had indicated we did it actually two different ways and I'll talk about the first way which is actually above and beyond what is required in the code but that's what we submitted and we compared what the current the land use or the mpud would allow for the total project versus what we're proposing including the total project and so the comments that we got were the study area that was the first one the study area wasn't big enough and if you look at the code under the transportation timing and phasing analysis it says you had about five percent of what you look at as far as your study Network determination we are actually less than five percent Beyond where we studied so we in fact the study Network that is in our analysis is more than adequate based on your code the second comment was the distribution uh that the the intersection of Saddlebrook way is 72 percent to the West well that today is primarily residential when you look at what we're doing we're doing a mixed juice we're doing commercial and residential so in addition to that we also looked at the intersection of Wiregrass Boulevard and 54. when you look at that distribution it's actually 54 to the West so when you take those two and you average them it comes out to be about 65 percent what we use the analysis so we think given that we're doing a mixed use development here the distribution that's in our analysis is adequate and actually matches what you would expect to be out there with a mixed use Development question yes so you did from Wiregrass Boulevard in 54. we did it from County Road we did from State Road 581 31 to Curley Road okay and and when you look Beyond those two segments we are less than five percent okay did you comparable what happens at 75 as well no because 75 is beyond that area of again when we look at study areas we look at where you're at five percent we're less than five percent we could have studied many roads in the county but that was the criteria that the county established and we use for this study uh do you think if we were going to do a more thorough plan and let's say really take a look at this in depth being that we advertise saddlebooks advertise half hour from the airport all the trips coming from 75 do you think we should have looked at what that number would be actually so I'll go into the actual analysis that is normally required for A needs assessment what that is is looking at what the project would generate so today as Barbara had indicated the res six would allow 1779 residential units That's the basis then we look at what we're changing that portion of the project that we're asking for the change the PD when you look at the traffic that we would generate it's actually less traffic in fact it's about 600 PM peak hour trips less than what it what the current res-6 would allow based on that we would not even be required to do a traffic study at all that we would stop at that point but instead we went ahead and did the analysis for that

segment of roadway in which we are greater than five percent beyond that we're not required but the reality is we're not required to do a study at all but we did one so if we're going to do a study if I have any value to it for most of our dris that were approved years ago I don't think any of them ever hit full capacity correct Mr County attorney they over over allocated so that's all factored but when you say the res six designation and you're talking about the units they can get are you basing upon the golf course in the driving range and all the common areas to be all res six and units on them uh those are the numbers and I'll I'll defer to our planners because I'm just giving the numbers to use and I and what we do whenever we do these is we say okay what is the maximum number that would allow it under row six and I'm actually giving I'm not a land use planner I'm just a traffic guy they tell me the land uses and I run the numbers but but that is based on what and again we do this on all of them they're always the same whatever the area that we're doing and the comp plan would allow that's we run the numbers on and again but but we didn't do but that's just looking at it from a standpoint of would we do announcements we went ahead and did the analysis anyway based on the total project right so back to we don't have that information so we'll have to ask for it later uh but so then so then the other question is as far as the level of service and the the what we call the VC ratio because what you've adopted in your code is a VC ratio of 1.0 but the reality is because we're in the urban service area if we do a what's called a mixed-use trip production project which is modern project for short we actually allowed to have a 1.2 DC ratio and what we're doing in area one is a mudroom project so the reality is and this is something that the the board adopted to help to to develop mixed-use projects to help reduce the traffic on the road by by that mixed use we'd actually be allowed to have a 1.2 but again this one and the other issue is on level of service this is a 20 45 analysis so we're looking at volumes 2045 based on the cost affordable plan which does include the overpass and those so this is a projection based on the counties model that they've used those volumes we're using a 2045 volumes to look at this analysis now we come in for the mpud we'll do a more detailed analysis as far as looking at specific intersections and looking at actual counts and seeing what the impact is of a project from that standpoint when you talk about doing mudroom for trip reduction measures um when I look at a development like this it's an MPD it's a little different than just regular Development coming in to go put on the edge of a project or into a roadway where it's going to be built but

you you guys would never look at the fact of let's say if they had more density to the center of the development where people might stay in the development never leave the resort to use the amenities are there you don't factor that in you just go by the mudroom based upon the data the counties used the mud room is is purely just from from our standpoint is purely a test as to whether or not we are a modern project from a traffic standpoint we do look at the internal capture we look at where they are within the in the project and the type of developments to determine the internal capture that based on a modern project the only way to be a mudroom project is to be a mixed-use project but as far as the actual mud room from our standpoint it's purely whether it's a one or a 1.2 but we do look at that internal capture yes Mr structure um we heard a lot about traffic people worried that they're lifestyle is going to change inside the golf course because but that that complex out front is right at the very front um so I mean you don't anticipate the part are we anticipating the apartment people are are going to be driving around Saddle Brook and coming back out to go into their Apartments I I was trying to figure out well well we we are we're building the vision road on the west side so we're building we're building that portion the initial construction of that will be right in right out ultimately that will be a full signalized intersection with 54 uh and obviously that Vision Road will go to um Wiregrass Ranch Boulevard a lot of traffic for that apartment and that makes use development will be over there on the vision yeah so ultimately that's that's the plan you know the initial construction of it will be right in right out but ultimately a signal uh will be there and that's part of what we're looking at as far as the mpud is the specific analysis of the accesses The Division Road the initial Construction Division Road and the intersection and that's one of the reasons why nothing Barbara showed in the initial presentation the additional geometry that we're putting at the intersection of Saddlebrook way and 50 forward to help with that traffic and something that didn't come up but I asked about it in my meeting with the developers is the um the residents of Saddlebrook don't have to drive to the shops and restaurants the entertainment area they can use their Golf Course golf carts they're making a golf cart path to the complex is that correct or bike or walk your dog I'm seeing head shape yes okay thank you that's all I am on track I don't know if there's any other questions for me commissioner maybe it's just time for rookie but I I'm still not clear on this traffic thing I mean just because you have a 1.2 availability doesn't mean it's appropriate I don't know how much you travel through there in a number of red

lights I know you're saying you're going to reduce it from 1700 plus to 620 uh trips per peak time what how did you say what record so what we looked at was the what could be built there today under the res six versus what we're proposing which was a reduction in what could be built there of the of the 600. um but getting to your point on on the VC ratio that was what what the county Board of County Commission is elected to do to entice these type of developments because otherwise if you end up with just subdivision after subdivision then shopping center after shopping center everybody's getting on the road so the idea was to try to entice people too then build these mixed-use projects to then reduce that traffic on the road and so that's what the board of County Commissioners adopted was this VC ratio and it's only for that urban area it is once you go outside the urban area you don't get that same VC ratio so it's only looking at you know the dense urban area where where they want where you want growth and then trying to entice that mixed-use type development thank you so 45 year plan when we came up with this formula that we anticipate new publics going in Walmart going in everything that's going in on that 54 Bruce B down four-door we anticipated all that coming in adding this knowing it bottlenecks all the way through when you travel we had a crystal ball and predicted that like I'm trying you know going off history just because the rules say one thing doesn't necessarily mean it's appropriate where I'm getting you know does the shoe fit where I'm at so anyway thank you for the uh I have one more question and maybe someone else but Jack you were talking about putting that density inside the middle of Saddle Brook and leaving the golf the driving range where it is but wouldn't that generate a lot more traffic in front of all these people's houses well think about this that would be a concern to me so think about this one I look at it when I go there it's a it's an area where you can walk your dog on the street and kids can ride their bikes it's a very peaceful community right and um yeah the more you put in here inside rather than outside does not make sense to me right that would increase the traffic internal to sell yes correct so commercial Sharkey consider this you've got people coming in from a hotel they're going to come into the resort they're going to stay there they're not generally speaking going to go out their trip capture pretty much when you have a high-end Steakhouse when you have a another place like Tropics when you get a spa when you get 36 holes of golf when you get a driving range you get a full set of activities in a giant pool that's designed to have people stay

right there and I mean I've gone to stay there and guess what I stayed there I didn't leave well let me finish please let me finish you you asked me a question let me finish the question and for shopping here great we've got a great opportunity to go do that there's movie stores Etc but as far as like to go there to do all the things that are in there that's the attraction of it that's why it's the crown jewel of Pasco County when you have all those people it'll be when you have all those people that could stay right to the center and walk to all these things that's what I say it's better for trip generation if they had an internal compared to when you put it out on 54 and all those people there in the apartments those demographics don't fit the high-end Saddlebrook they're going to go out on they don't just the way it is with Apartments compared to the high-end people coming in I think it's better to have that density outside of Saddle Brook than inside and let the kids ride their bikes and people walk their dog well other than the people the other two people in the audience so far well I'm gonna ask how many people are okay let me go ahead and ask this question of the lady who the attorney were you an attorney yes if I could ask you a question and I'm sorry I've already forgotten how many residents are in uh how many total units are there 718. okay I started right but it all went so fast I couldn't do it 373 condos is that right wait say that again Barbara come on up two attorneys standing together Toe to Toe it probably feels good to stand no women oh okay okay so 300 Century Resort units 172 Resort units of different villages um well how many houses are there 173 is that right no no um so there is about 190 some roughly in the Fairway Village area Pat what is that are those apartments no those are residential homes that's the Fairway Village houses single-family houses or what they call cluster homes which are townhouses but those are again side-by-side houses nobody else lives above you below you right okay there's that there's a there's 90 some odd okay it can change day by day like upper 90s and what we call Saddlebrook Property Owners Association those are all houses all houses all permanent residents okay there's a small Association like The Ladybug Lane area that is eight buildings and 32 units that's its own little mini Association okay so 32 doorknobs does that help you and those are those are residents they're not rental okay well okay I can help you you're 280 plus 32 okay so you're 312 then you've got 12 units that are Townhomes called villadesta so I had 12. okay okay

um basically you could count um about 280 plus our single family homes that's in those two associations then there's those quads we call them I'm sorry that's the one that's the eight buildings with 32 units the ladesta is like that there's also in what they call the Lakeside area which is part of the condo association but those are the ones that do have an ability to Airbnb okay they're not in the hotel rental pool that's about a hundred and forty condos there okay because well I saw um 13 or 14 houses that are not condos that are in the BRB we looked at that there's three it depends on what Association you're in again Lakeside has the ability to rent them out Saddlebrook has clamped down there's some people that are grandfathered in and people that break the rules we that was voted yeah but there's three houses we looked after your question there's three today one is listing it a couple times thank you so much for the attorney is how many people are in your group that you're representing how many people are signed up and paying or whatever paying into your group so that's something I also I think that you can speak to now the group includes both the the Fairway and I don't I don't need people who came to a meeting I mean people who are paying for your salary to represent them right so I can speak to the associations and then he can speak to other the actual numbers it includes two of the homeowner associations that's not what I'm asking the Fairway but I'm going if you let me finish what I can tell you is that as a representation they wrote the there was a vote for these individual homeowner associations and they voted to retain to become part of the safe Saddle Brook Coalition Fairway has 190 and Saddlebrook POA has was it 90 something 95. so did 100 of those residents vote to retain you the the board members did they are that's what I'm kind of getting on the record the board mem there's a vote just like how a HOA works you have a vote a majority vote and the majority is voted to have the boards yeah I think Mr Pat Hogan is here from Fairway and um and Nancy is here as well they can speak to the votes we're not misrepresenting anything and I I do take um a little bit of offense to that that you know you would make it seem like I am misrepresenting a fact as an attorney I just wanted to know how many people are signed up because we get a lot we we go through a lot of these and um sometimes people are very vocal but they're not representing the majority it happens a lot right well we've worked pretty hard on that and we've met like they said the the boards had the authority that's what the boards do and the reason we formed this was for a variety of reasons such as like most of the boards have

elections that would be in the middle of this decision cycle so we could end up not having an attorney retain they'd start and stop and a bunch of other good reasons so that's why we did that beyond that we also have probably about 70 some odd different individuals that have signed up so far and the amounts can vary we do it I mean we if someone has five bucks and they want to put it in that's fine we don't make a profit we're going to redistribute back to every homeowner and every HOA on a pro ratabasis whatever they paid that we don't use you know we're I mean goodness we're you know I we have real jobs that we are not doing as well because we're dealing with this okay so we're not and and you know please that's what the population you represent well I mean you know a perfectly fair question and I hope we've represented it with complete genuine uh you know and transparency thank you thank you very much I would just add the difference in our numbers is that the numbers I gave you gave you are not all of this project are within the MPD which is odd but there are some homes that aren't within the MPD some of the things that some of those units are not within the MPD so the determination that staff made was relative to units that are constructed within the mpud and they went and pulled all the records and and and make it more it was yeah so that's so that's why those numbers are a little bit different because we're looking at it from the mpud perspective and they're looking at it from MPD and non-mpud because remember this dates back to 1986 so it's you know it's not the way everything always appears today when we do these types of zonings so I just want to explain that difference wait a minute question go ahead no no that was always gonna say I said Jordan had a few things he wanted to address relative to things said about mass or the light but I would love to answer your question commissioner I don't have a question I was going to try to bring this in for a late day well I have a collection so I'm waiting yeah um so let's spring up Jordan then okay thank you thank you all so I just wanted to go through some of the things said and you know make clear that 95 of the comments that came out of the 13 people that spoke against us we agree with right we want the golf course to be better they talk about protecting their house views our fee restriction in fact does that today they have no protection right there is no HOA protection over that golf course today in any way whatsoever in its own dress six as we talked about you know a lot of history of the tennis players that came through Saddlebrook we are aligned and the majority of our plan has aligned with them so you know we talked Barbara mentioned it but you know there's really no concrete feedback for us to change our plans from what we've seen going through some of the specific

points that that were raised you know Mr barbetta talked about 20 courts and the discrepancy between courts and Tennis Courts him and I actually spoke last week at one of the community meetings which he was present at and I assured him it was 20 of the 27 tennis courts in my presentation I specifically said change the language there versus otherwise to give that assurance and again willing to work with us we would change that language we'd give him that Assurance but he continues to bring it up despite that happening despite us showing it as part of our plan you know I asked him as part of that that we presented multiple weeks ago our plan and we presented over and over again when we'd have feedback and the answer I got is you represents too many people it's gonna be a very long time there's nothing for us to do for that um you know changes to our plans is a concern that's come up the reasons our plans have changed is because we have worked with a significant majority of this community and we have addressed their comments so if if we our plans weren't changing it's it would be because we weren't addressing the comments you know about half of the number of people showed up here today from our planning department meeting for all of you who watched it I strongly believe that's because their concerns were addressed and they no longer showed up um you know getting into there was talks about the 27 hole golf course and that there's no 18-hole course there's actually three 18-hole courses you have an A9 a B9 and a C9 and you combine A and B B and C and A and C so there's three different 18-hole courses that exist there um so the idea that there's not a single 18 hole course is just false um you know we will have three different options for an 18 hole course um you know there's talks a lot about not having concrete plans for our renovation renovating all the existing buildings that are there takes a lot of time planning and effort and given the age of the building we've shared with every Community a very detailed presentation that goes Space by space with our Resort plans so everybody knows exactly what our plans are so a comment that we haven't shared our plans is just wrong and again they're not fully finalized yet they're evolving but we have shared all of the plans that we have to date with the homeowners um talking about our apartment buildings Ocean Walk we haven't owned for five years so the comment that actually five years ago the comments were good and now they're bad well five years ago is when we owned it so I think that's actually an endorsement for our ability to oversee apartments and the other building that was shown had damage post hurricane Irma and we had residents that chose to continue to live there through those repairs related to the the storm and you know it was unfortunately I guess we were doing those repair works not perfect but we did the best we could

given we got hit by a hurricane um let's while you're thinking about your next thing let me just let me just comment to what you just said so think about the people here in Seattle work and one of the people mentioned it earlier in their comments what's going to happen 20 30 years down the road you just mentioned what if you guys just come in here you go build the apartments make all your money and you decide you know what we're just going to move on and now somebody else comes in here and they leave it behind just like the people that suffered before what are these people that do then so ultimately if our plan was to do that again we spent 5 million in our ownership to date we're spending five million dollars additional this year if we were planning to leave the resort behind it's been 15 years since there's been any capital investment would it be at all the rational business decision for us to spend 10 million dollars in a resort that we're actually not going to improve the full way I mean it's and plus as we all know this Resort is losing money today right the resort loses money that's that is no secret um it's not like this the resort is a amazing sale Blossom we want to improve the entire Community the deed restriction also speaks to how much we value the community because again there's no requirement on us to do that so I think we have shown our intentions and I think every step of the way we've shown you know that we are doing the right thing we've answered questions uh and so I think that speaks louder than anything else we could do well I'll say this you know we asked for the big town hall meeting why didn't you have a meeting with everybody there in one shot why did you do separate meetings for everybody tell me that ultimately we decided to have different meetings with all the different associations uh you know the capacity of the room we don't have a the same AV level to do in the uh seriously uh as easily but you know at the end of the day required by code we can have different meetings right and so we chose to have different meetings logistically we everybody had a chance to speak you know again I spoke with members of this Coalition as part of those meetings none of the concerns raised here were raised to me right they all had a chance to go Barbara mentioned how many people were noticed to it you know whether it's one meeting or three meetings I'm not sure what the distinction is between that every single person got the same presentation every single person had public question and answer there's meeting minutes that we have regarding that meeting and after almost every meeting I stayed two hours to talk to people and you know that's a significant amount of time lots of questions raised but almost nothing of what was brought up here was brought up to us in those settings and in those meetings I I commissioner Waverly okay

I'm laying in the plane oh no when I stopped though it is not yet nine o'clock okay I have a question for you and and um so I'm a member of a golf club it's called Cypress Run um it isn't I think it's an equity Golf Club what's the difference between an equity golf club and a non-equity golf club so if you're part of an equity Golf Club you actually are part owner of the club itself versus a non-equity membership where you just are a member with with membership rights the Saddlebrook an equity or not Equity not Equity so what does that mean to my fellow board members who may not know the difference as far as responsibility I mean one is a business and the other one is everyone who lives there is in the business right correct if you're part of an equity Club you you own part of that club if there's improvements you're going to pay for part of those improvements um you know if there's excess profitability you're going to ultimately benefit from that if you're a non-equity member if we're making improvements that's a hundred percent you know on us ultimately we're responsible for those costs you continue to have your membership rights there's Club documents that obviously dictate you know what can and can't happen and what rights you have Etc um but you you know as an equity member you actually own that club so I'm guessing and that when people bought in Saddlebrook there was some kind of covenants when you move into a neighborhood like that regarding or is I mean were there any rules regarding the there are no business of the golf course no and clubs so there's a difference when you live in an equity Golf Community and a non-equity golf community and I think that's part of what's brought so much angst here today and I feel for the residents but they're in a non-equity golf community and there is a difference and further than that I'd even say that a lot of HOAs that aren't even Equity golf communities have Provisions in the HOA documents themselves dictating what can and can't happen to that golf course that does not exist here right our deed restriction does that so you know the talk of protecting views and the talk of you know wanting the golf course to be a golf course you know none of that has existed in the past so I understand people bought based on those views but to be clear none of that was rooted in any document that they were stepping into or any right they had that was just their personal you know thought what we're doing is protecting those views for them so we actually are putting something in place that has not existed so uh that you're but one of one of the other things I heard at the Planning Commission and I

heard it again here today and I've and one of the residents told me about this and I recall he's the one who ended up coming to my office is when you drive in it is a stunning entrance it is lushly landscaped and it's a really nice entrance and he said that the residents paid for that Landscaping not necessarily Mr Dempsey and so um as we go forward if this goes forward I would hope that the lustness and the Beautiful feel of the entrance that those people have invested in is there so I tried to see on your plans what the Landscaping looked like on both sides I'm just hoping that you're you know with the history of that investment that that is going to be very Lush still yes and I'd also say that if you look at it today a lot of the plants there have lost their luster and there's a lot of improvements that can ultimately be made so yeah and it's obviously important to us right as many people had mentioned that that is the arrival to Saddlebrook that is that first impression um and and it is important so you know I actually think we can enhance that arrival experience versus you know what it looks like today commissioner Whiteman thank you thank you uh what a great day it's a Tuesday right so I want to thank Ms Wilhite the mass team um so do you have any more questions from us no sir no more questions okay all right um I'm just gonna make one comment to it so I feel that when I go into let's say the Saddle Brook Resort you go into like the lobby there's a giant picture that shows the whole golf course that's there it shows the layout everything is there I think when these people signed up years ago they had an expectation so what they were going to get I think they were when they were buying their properties through Mr Dempsey this is what was going to happen I don't know if they really have the authority to be able to come in and change everything that's out there so when he says there's no protection to the golf course and having the golf course there I'm going to question that am I right there have been lawsuits between residents and Golf Course owners about preserving what they thought they bought into not very many if any of them that I'm aware of have been successful without some underlying document that gave them those rights um I mean look at the links in your in your District there's not much you can do about a private private provider a property owner who owns a golf course who doesn't want to maintain it or doesn't want to use it as a golf course any longer well there is a situation where we have a determination from the growth management director of Terry pitos to the lynx Golf Course person that they're by planting a

tree farm is in direct violation with the development agreement which isolates 127 which is an entirely different point than whether they whether they could just abandon the golf course which is a question you asked it says in the development agreement has to be about this that's what it says it's got a list of matrixes that you can switch out in the whole Matrix switch it goes from residential multi-family on The Matrix you can switch and it goes over to you can do assisted living facility commercial and Retail it does not allow for the golf course to be changed on The Matrix I think there's a protection there and I don't know what the documents are here I haven't seen them all the way through which is why I like to see more detail from this project coming forward knowing the MPD is coming behind it you asked the question about whether or not we don't know and and what my answer to you is that most folks have not been successful on those challenges okay Mr William before I let you go I just want to make one comment uh give me one second part of me only got 35 000 papers there it is all right so after watching what was going on with this having several meetings I went to David Goldstein who's the attorney for the planning director artist and County attorney and I asked him pretty much you know give me the list of reasons for denying a rezoning a land use here's what he said about land use he says comprehensive plan land use amendments legislative decisions and can be denied for just about any reason as long as it's not arbitrary and capricious depending on the facts of a particular case we would typically cite reasons such as lack of compatibility inadequate supporting infrastructure public services or lack of internal consistency with other comp plan goals and objectives and policies so I just want to read that to you before you bring in for your Landing here okay thank you Mr chairman it's a very fair statement where's the pine kids oh did they oh well this is the best homework I guess you can have you know I get the sense that we're all at an impasse board members the Mast and their project and the residence and I want to thank everybody for doing their part to make progress happen to keep a good sense of Life while moving forward in an increasing value to anybody and I think this board and everybody here recognizes how special and unique Saddle Brook is so I'm gonna pull a rookie card being a new commissioner with new information coming out today of the board meeting that I hadn't seen previously and I've got a list of questions they're

working staff questions I think we all might have those uh that I want to answer and I think I've made that clear especially on the traffic issue among others life spend some more time meeting with the applicant getting some assurances and some understanding on what we're looking like going forward what the final plan is I think there's good progress being made I think everybody kind of saw a glimmer of something on the on the on the plan today however it was you know it was shown today so with that I make a motion to continue this item so that I can review and ask questions thoroughly and in detail with staff and the applicant before making a decision hold on well the second is fine since we have a motion in a second since the commissioner said he was pulling the rookie card I will ask you do you want to continue to a date certain March 7th would be your next day in City meeting I can pull the next the April meeting if you're going to continue it and you don't want re-advertising which is what we normally would do in this situation it needs to be considered continued to a date sir let's do a date starting here in Dade City you want the April meeting uh yeah commissioner Wakeman something to consider as you're a rookie I want to coach you a little bit thank you thank you can you notice he said he didn't notice that yeah what should be give yourself plenty of time we're just hearing there now turning in the documents we've got they were negotiating with Donald Palmer and some others and I'll pick Jones they got details to to look at there they can look at many other things with what's coming up before they can do the traffic information you might ask for more traffic information which you can go do so I mean as a resident commissioner and I will I will say this to you something that I've talked about with them is I don't mind whatever type of incentives we could possibly do and that would mean like working with swiftman to go clean out the golf course areas that are silt it up using some of the money they've put in every year for their stormwater Utility Fund to use that money to help clear that out to make it more affordable to go do so could we even help with the drains um I don't mind if we look at being this that this will be a very more beneficial if they put a more concentrate concentrated Development Center to give them some relief for the impact fees they may pay or even to give some economic incentives that we can and whatever tourism monies we can help if we're going to do something like we're going to do years ago the Tennessee whatever creative lead can do to work with those guys uh I want to help I want them to succeed I want Saddlebrook to go back to that high level and I think it can and I think everybody in the board has heard that seen that and everybody

agrees to it let's just matter how do you get there and clearly just like that one apartment complex at the very end if it turns over and they flip it to somebody else what could happen out there so as you pick your time please give yourself plenty of time to go through this I'd rather get this thing right sir April's fourth is so what about eight weeks sufficient April 4th is the Dade City meeting after the March meeting and then it's May 9th and Let's do let's do April 4th we both say 92 seconds okay any further discussion all in favor aye aye any opposed okay all right we are um well we'll take a break and take care thank you folks I mean I'm out you want to just got a meeting uh no we're taking a break and I'm late for it do you guys want to do committee items you wanted to Commitment [Music] folks if you please exit we want to finish our meeting [Music]

all right thank you all right folks they're still in session please exit please we're going to finish our meeting we're still in our meeting for thank you and folks we're just going to go over committee reports so the Saddleback business is over thank you no no just just go ahead and exit we'll be fine we'll carry on you didn't need it okay so we finished with commissioner waitman commissioner Starkey what were you doing in District Two welcome you're welcome you're welcoming um and I every time I pass this I say how is this possibly legal oh and so I want to ask everybody how is this legal how can that fence be legal that is a hurricane tropical storm killer I'm sure that's in my district yes yes wait wait a minute don't look at me that that's you west of 41. it is this is gonna slice and dice those panels are just laying against stuff those fish are Starkey yeah I got it all right remember that was the easiest thing I have ever brought sure I will tell you that that's been there since I've been the county attorney let's start well now it's I remember it being the answer coming back that it was a non-conforming junkyard but that's just what's behind the fact that is a killer there's one that is a killer they need to apply for a grant I got it yeah Sally um okay uh I know I had other things but I can't remember commissioner Marion you know I support dude but I'm having shades of sun west and it has my anxiety level up so high um because I don't think you followed our board procedure for public company and I wanted the county attorney who sent me up sent me what we updated how public comment is supposed to be dished out to groups so can you go over those again because I am whatever that group was and then four minutes to all those other people and so we came up with board policy because when I was chair you know it was like let's make it up as you go so so we all voted on foreign policy I just want to touch on it again so this doesn't happen again so 10.3 says an individual speaker shall be given three minutes to present his or her comments to the board for public hearing items persons who have been authorized in writing to represent an organization with five or more members or a group group of five or more persons shall be entitled to speak up to 15 minutes without interruption provided others in that organization waive their time in writ in the written authorization upon approval by the chairman or majority vote of the board a speaker's time may be extended

hearings unzoning and other usual matters shall be conducted in accordance with rule 10. rule 12.1 in the same manner as such hearings have been conducted in the past I just want to try and and that was to me we didn't have to go I mean I thought it was a Nexus well let me explain why just so it helps you get that list yes sir so there was one person that had full people and she was going to have all four come up she says they'd feel more comfortable I just spoke all at once so I thought it'd be saving time if I just had one person speak for the full people Nancy Foster represents her HOA she got an extra minute she didn't need it um Jane Graham getting 45 minutes this was a lot of information and she had a lot to cover and if you watch the Planning Commission which you watched it right that was a lot of stuff that was on there I didn't want the situation of she had to come up and rebut what was being said and how it got squashed and if the way the Planning Commission went uh I wanted to make sure that everybody got their voice heard so we had this done once and again and we didn't get it done once right but but everybody everybody got their input in and I think we did it as quickly as we could with all the people wanted to speak and I think a lot of people didn't speak because of these people getting to speak as they did I think this is the longest hearing we have ever had uh I have no doubt yeah and I I personally almost left um I I don't think it was appropriate the way it was handled and I I don't want to keep hammering other things that's why we have that's why we have and again I looked at what the people were asking for how they wanted to go do it and I've seen it where you have one person come up another person come up another person come up it's disjointed it takes more time and it doesn't come up I wanted these people to be able to communicate to us what they wanted to say no I want to admit I don't care which way I went I did I didn't cut off the other two guys that went over time matter of fact the attorney at the applicant she wanted 30 minutes she ended up with 45 I didn't cut her off either I wanted all the information out here so that we whatever we decide we're going to be done and we over we knew it was contentious and frankly with this hearing frankly to be set up on Planning Commission agenda on consent it told me we weren't listening to the people I wanted the people to get their voice heard that's all I was trying to do so all right so um there is a letter come on up Carl what is that letter called again um for the record Carl mckiska executive director of this Pasco County Metropolitan planning organization

the Suncoast Transportation Planning Alliance which is a collaboration of our County and the other counties making up the Tampa Bay Area requested that we sign a letter supporting an application for a raise Grant by Hillsborough County for their heavy maintenance facility for Transit so I they put it in front of me and I said I had a little eggs I know I don't think you've already said you're supported from something no we voted against it but we voted against me that was that was heard before correct it's not been brought to this body it was brought up you've heard of the TMA and the spcta we voted against it we voted we had a vote at the TMA meeting they wanted to place it on the priority list and that was voted down and the alternative that was proposed was then the letter of support please I got a little bit of eggs voting to give Federal money to the county that is killing all our claims that's so I just want to bring it to you I don't know where's the commission leave yeah um you know it's do we want to sign that letter or do we not one second I mean I want to be a regional thinker I have always promoted regionalism so part of me says suck it up and I actually made a motion and sign it but so I actually made a motion after we didn't want it on the list we actually made a motion we do a lot of support so I don't mind the letter of support I just didn't want to put on the priority list a letter of support but um that we you know we supported the West Shore interchange funding for federal funding we have always supported we supported Pinellas County's ass and I guess we will stand here and support hillsborough's opportunity to get Federal funding but I do it with the not a big smile on my face because I don't think they some of them are playing well in the regional sandbox there is a new board there yeah so if you want to make the motion for it all right so I make the motion that we support heart's requests for federal funding on the on that letter well I kind of seconded or voted no on that one if there's no second it does Starkey you are a regional thinker I'm gonna go ahead and support you okay it could be a 2-2 you don't know I know how to count to so well again I I was uncomfortable with the list but I did actually make a recommendation that we actually did it with regional planning Council and Regional planning council did it so I'm going to be supporting the motion so any further discussion on it all in favor say aye three opposed so my last thing I wanted to bring up and maybe I'll save it for next time up

um but I did want to talk about our lack of applying for festivals I see everyone around us applying and winning I just saw and someone else just sent it to me today Hillsborough County got 19 million for something and I've talked to the administrator about this if we don't apply we're not going to get any and it's a record year for funding out of Washington and we're not in we're not playing in the sandbox so we've got to Tee It Up for next year all right commissioner Bradford yeah I'm in charge of that you know lobbying is applying for Grants and lobbying and hiring your lobbyists that's just a very small part of the game you got to be willing to get on the plane go up there disrupt your week bang on the doors you can't see the if you can't see the senator see the chief of staff they're usually the ones who's going to make the recommendation anyway so I don't see us doing that a lot like I said I just got here I'll play the rookie card but we need to do that next week huh next week I can you know what so but uh I'm all there for Tallahassee now all right and I'll go further with that I think it is something we need to do matter of fact I was talking to Carl earlier that um I think we need to go put some things together set them up uh and you know going up with naco's one thing it's good that we do we get a lot of information we work with a group of people and kind of like Lobby together but I do think we need separate trips up there as well right uh that can work and but set those appointments up ahead of time across the board so that we can go up as united front when we went up to get Ridge Road that's right Wells we went up there and guess what and it helped with the administration it just come in and all he had done uh Governor support our legislative support so all that said and done that worked and helped so I think that's what we need to go do and I wanna I wanna compliment Mike as Ronnie says I think he's doing a phenomenal job you've addressed at the last meeting we talked about about trying to work on more of these things we're going to help on resiliency stuff as well to apply so I know you get it I know you're working on it um and I just I guess this was pretty well UNIF I'm saying we want to do more of it and just again with so much out there we need to just get whatever we can get good I just wanted to tell Mike that I I appreciate all the um tutelage because I asked him a lot of tough questions and he kind of looks at me and he goes haven't done this job before I know so he always takes a time for me uh I'm the kind of guy that'll just walk up and bang on the door he generally make time for me so uh but I'm gonna take care of fan I'm gonna take care of the fence so we're gonna

knock it no more button in so anyway I really appreciate Mike very much very good all right commissioner struck you double your committee reports yeah well I did want to on our on our at our state asks do you have that ready Ralph do we have something and I have no idea what my fellow Commissioners are going after but and do we have a Tallahassee dates all set up before okay and while he's walking up so just so you know it used to be in I guess it was Christina that used to be in your District now it's in my district but we got a problem in Riverside Village um which is right by Mitchell field right across the street for some reason the first 60 houses are on septic it's very low it rains their septic is on this their stuff is on the sidewalk for everyone to share yeah and we've been out there yeah it's a real problem so fgoa is going to fix it and assess the citizens and they're going to go after a state Grant but they're asking for a hundred percent I don't think that's smart and I just wanted this board what I I think they should be asking us after you raise ask that's not our ask well can we help direct them well I mean you know fgway if I could just real quick I mean fqa is under tremendous rate pressure as it stands because remember when they go in and they buy the systems you know there's there's a tremendous amount of brake pressure already so you know they could assess subject to sewer is very expensive I will I will just say this collectively to the board one of the things that I've discussed with with Branford and David Allen our utilities director is to look at an approach to septic to sewer because again we are we are missing out on some dollars we did apply uh for a dep Grant a year or two ago we were denied because we're not really in the priority Focus areas we have a coastal area that's that's rich in Environmental Quality and and I think an argument can be made there so utilities is coming up with a strategy as to how we make that happen and there's really two two big issues when it comes to subject to sewer conversions the first is usually the grants fund about half so where do you get the other half from and how you know and how much do you assess the future rate pair and then secondly and maybe even more concerning from a board perspective is essentially forcing that person to become a ratepayer so those will be issues that we will have to you know tackle um because if we build it by State law they have to connect of course but you're we will essentially be mandating that they have a sewer bill or something but I think those are ugly public hearings to go in there and fix that problem the septic companies will no longer go in there and fix their septic tanks all three three of them because it's just it's it's a failed Health disaster there so fgoa is going to go ahead and start

putting in the septic the sewer system it won't be ours it'll be theirs but um but we eventually will buy it correct and I will say that we we did ask the fgua to um expand the scope and do a pump station versus uh they had a lower Tech version a grinder pump and some vacuum sewers or something so with the anticipation that one day it will become a county asset but don't we want them to be successful in their Grant and if they go for 100 they're not going to be I don't know I'm asking them no it the amount that they're asking for is a doable amount yeah I spoke with their uh lobbyists they had no problem with that yeah and he's been around for quite a sometime one of the things I want to end my testimony and I know not talking about thank you fire station nine oh up and running yes a great facility and a great day there fellow Commissioners uh we all went there and uh took a tour and all the vast Technologies oh that was well played thank you uh and I couldn't be happier and I couldn't be prouder I'm glad we're all part of that team yep that was a great day great great investment and uh protects our firefighters and long term it's it's just exciting what we're doing for them yeah thank you that's all Happy Birthday Andy Taylor anything else commissioner Bradford right there you guys can talk about poop all right County Administrator I'll I'll defer my comments and appreciate the uh the kind words but obviously it's it's the team that deserves all the credits so thank you for for supporting our team and making sure that they uh they have what they need to get the job done but uh no I have nothing else County attorney I'm I'm good thank you okay Madam clerk so bear with me because I know I'm between you and the door um but on behalf of clerk Alvarez Souls I have two thank yous and an invitation so first um we want to thank um the recycling department we partner with them every year for the big shred and we've held the event the last two Saturdays um 450 residents came in and um you know gave us their sensitive documents to shred and we shred it about 20 tons of you know old tax returns and checkbooks and that kind of stuff so um that was a very very good successful event um so thank you to the recycling team for partnering with us the second thank you is your it team they're wonderful and I wish I had all their last names but I'm going to say Eli Randy and John and team and I'm hoping Mr brightonbach knows who I'm talking to so we can get the thank yous back but we moved our our main internet connection um in the middle of the night last Wednesday night and we were having troubles we called them up they they got on the phone with us and and helped us

out and so just thank you there's a lot of efficiencies by moving that when it comes to Hurricane time frame and being able to support this office so just thank you to them and then lastly an invitation the Valentine's Day ceremony will be here at the historic Courthouse week from today it's a beautiful moment so we're inviting the commission to come out and and celebrate with us celebrate the couples all right very good and uh I think tomorrow we have the jail expansion going on um on third Geo expansion right medication 10 o'clock [Music] and uh on Thursday HCA Bayonet Point has got their I think it's 100 rooms they're opening up uh the facility HCA Bayonet Point at 4 P.M on Thursday they're gonna do it there uh Grand Opening which has been a long time coming the building looks so good they designed it like it almost looks like it built it from day one really did a good job um great news as far as fire stations go they broke rounded Hudson at Majestic so the ground is clear so I'm sure we'll be tossing some shovels out there pretty soon and see Pines from what I got from an email from yesterday was there's just a couple little things that we're looking at right now going to send it back to them I hope it can be on the agenda next week and Mike if nothing else even if we don't have it back in time for Friday which we may get it back in time if you can put a placeholder on it I want to make sure we put that up there so we can get that next steps roll on this is my fire station moving along and something to talk about too you know we we talked about Wesley Chapel the athletic association who has done a great job for many many years we do have a bigger demand I think we should all be getting maybe a group briefing or somehow every one of us should be talking to Keith Wiley about between Mitchell being raised up we're trying to get a couple million dollars from the state Maggie Valley what we do there but there's some opportunities that are going on there so I think we I can encourage you to talk to Keith let's go talk about what we're going to go do and keep moving um and Hudson Beach I want to say that uh I'm very pleased that Brantford uh I called him up about getting the beach done because the sand that's gone down the side it turns out it's about a four-hour job they're gonna take the beach sand that's on the side put it up at the beach so Hudson Beach is going to look better in a very short period of time which I'm very pleased with um yeah and I do think that as far as recycling glad you brought it up if we can look at one thing Mike just as a big picture thing I don't expect anything real quick but we have a lot of one things we're looking at here yeah recycling is very important to us the more we keep out of landfill the better

I'd like to see us if we're not doing enough and that the more we can do between Parks libraries all the county facilities to make those opportunities available I know we do in the county building but I'm not sure if we're doing it everywhere else so so we'll take a look at that thank you for saying that um multiple citizens ask us how often would you only tell them that we partner with recycling do it you know January and February but we try to tell them about Earth Day and all but there is a need they ask when else it's done throughout the year so okay thank you for that thank you commissioner Mariano on that we are done my husband told me in Mr utility former utility director um Mr Waste Management person I don't remember what company you worked for Republic you want me to stand up there uh I don't know which company is that we have I would say a word but we pay at our business we have a regular garbage and then we have a recycling dumpster which we pay more for than the regular garbage my husband said and um they apparently they pick up the recycling and the dumpster and they put it all together the cardboard and they're mixing it together who's doing that is that what we're supposed to be doing because my husband's Gonna Cancel it doesn't sound right more and they're not recycling it and we got a lot of trouble to flatten our box this business would like to give us that information we can we can look into that okay it doesn't sound right to me but I know it didn't sound right to me the Waste Connections does most of the service in that area but I don't know who they're sure yeah well we'll we can look into that all right well I'd just like to say uh you know tonight was one heck of a meeting we all knew it was going to be but I want to say I give you all the credit in the world you ask all the questions we fired all the answers and I think it was it was a good meeting as long as it took it had to happen this way so I thank you all I love serving with this board I think you guys are great I'll do it I thought that's long all right so we're adjourning thank you [Music] foreign [Music] depend on you to keep them healthy excess fertilizer grass clippings trash oils and pet waste wash into gutters and storm drains when it rains storm water carries these pollutants directly into our lakes and rivers creating an unhealthy environment for fish waterfowl and other Aquatic animals storm drains are meant for clean rain water most other discharges are illegal if you suspect an illicit discharge please contact Pasco County Department of Public Works at 727-834-3611 [Music] do you like having fun and staying fit do you like to be creative

[Music] do you like being part of your community do you like a little friendly competition [Music] do you like hanging out with friends if you're saying yes then come join us here at Pasco County Senior Services we have locations across the county for you to get out and enjoy great company every weekday and that's not all do you like good food we have free lunch every weekday for those 60 and older just come in and sign up if you like what you see come visit us at senior services [Applause] thank you foreign at any given time 4.8 million people are being sexually exploited across the globe men women and children of all ages races and ethnicities are exploited for profit women and girls have disproportionately affected accounting for 99 of the victims in a commercial sex industry over 300 000 of America's youth are at risk of sexual exploitation each year the U.S is one of the largest consumers of human trafficking victims worldwide when it comes to sex trafficking consumption means the purchase of sex this is a problem that we face right here in Pasco County when you buy sex you are contributing to the trafficking of men women and children right here in Pasco County he comes down to supply and demand there are simply more people trying to buy sex than there are those people willing to sell their bodies thus the opportunity for human trafficking to occur do you think people enjoy being bought and sold that they want to perform sex acts with strangers when it comes to buying sex we want to make sure the word is out there that Pasco doesn't buy it every law enforcement agency in Pasco County including the Pasco Sheriff's Office the New Port Richey Police Department the Zephyrhills Police Department the Dade City police department and the Port Richey Police Department we are working together to arrest and help to prosecute sex buyers would you like for your spouse to find out that you're paying for sex would you like your kids or their friends to find out or your mother do you want your boss your co-workers or your clients to find out that you are buying sex how would you like to have a criminal record buying sex is punishable with jail time and up to a five thousand dollar fine we use state-of-the-art technology we have highly trained experienced officers we are leveraging detailed intelligence and monitoring the online platforms that sex buyers use all of law enforcement is working together if you're a sex buyer in Pasco County we will find you don't buy sex if you do you will be arrested [Music] thank you are you in the nearly 50 000 veterans who live work and play in Pasco County our team at Pasco County Veterans Services is here to help you and your family making sure you receive the benefits you deserve from filing compensation and pension claims to

crisis and Aid in assistance we're here to serve you so all of the veterans service officers here in Pasco County are retired from the military we all come from different backgrounds different branches of the military but we all bring forth the experience and our expertise just through things that we have gained from our own personal military service you should come in and talk to a veteran service officer if you're trying to put together any type of claim that involves the VA I just think the team is great here very caring that's for sure and they put their all to help you you get total attention from them when you do come in which is awesome it'll provide you with the guidance we can help you put together the paperwork and we can also give you a status and update on your claim after it's been submitted so I have had veterans that that came in with five dollars in their bank account and once their claims get approved now they're getting a monthly tax-free benefit of over three thousand dollars a month that's huge sometimes we can do it over the phone we can do it over video but it's it feels more personable when you're sitting there across from someone who probably lived the same life you lived and big is one and it's more understanding to your needs and your wants give them a call find out uh if you can come in have your documents with you ready to go and they'll they'll help you [Music] thank you finding Rover is an application that is used both on website and smartphones and you can download the app or use the website to upload photos of your own pet to help find them if they've become lost and the way it works best with us is that when those animals are being found in Strays by our Animal Control Officers or being brought in by another member of the community their information is automatically being uploaded to finding Rover system their pictures are automatically being uploaded and if they see their pet they already know where they can go and find it I think one of the interesting things about organization is our ability to help the public we have so many different ways that we can do that one of the most special ways we do that is being able to reunite pets with our owners and anytime we can get some technology a form of technology to help us do that is incredible and with the finding Rover app we personally at Pasco County Animal Services have been able to reunite pets with their owners based on facial recognition technology which got some space stuff right there but we make it work and we get animals back into their homes and it's absolutely incredible not only for the animals for those people as well the application for finding Rover is a free application for smartphones you can use any picture that you find on your Facebook pages on your private pictures anywhere that you have them if you're using your phone it'll open up your camera roll and you can choose the photo that you'd like to use

uh we've been out to this address many times we've got a building violation a minimum housing case on it we're trying to determine whether to condemn the structure or not and we brought the sheriff's department with us because they're uh it's a known drug house and there are squatters so we want to make sure that for our safety that everything's cleared out first before we make that determination heartbreaking I helped the gentleman that got that years ago you need to have it cleaned up or removed one another I like to see it going to be better better for neighborhood that one in the house next door to it they are both garbage unbearable so anyway we haven't made our determination that this is going to be a condemnation case under the slum and blight I'll just check with the sheriff's office before we head out make sure that everything is good on their side and uh go back and start the case so we're working on it for you okay absolutely whoever whoever the initial investigator was I'm going to have them start the condemnation and do it started today it makes me feel really good because it'll make the whole neighborhood that that much of a better place Fred Wright lives here this is exactly why I do what I do absolutely [Music]

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foreign [Music] foreign [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] foreign [Music] County the fastest growing County in the Tampa Bay area the Pasco Board of County Commissioners is a high performing organization with 2 700 employees representing 57 lines of business serving nearly 600 000 people over 740 square miles and we're always looking for talented people to join our team this is your opportunity to help make your community a better place to live work and play if you're ready to be part of a great success story consider a career with Pasco County Government recently recognized as a top workplace for 2021 opportunities include careers in utilities Public Works traffic operations Solid Waste Animal Services public transportation Information Technology libraries Parks Human Services Recreation and Natural Resources Administration Senior Services fire rescue 9-1-1 Fleet building construction services code enforcement planning environmental science and so much more plus our benefits package is tough to beat we offer employee wellness centers Health vision and dental benefits paid holidays and tuition reimbursement just to name a few we are local government reimagined we're Progressive Innovative and in many areas Pasco County is leading the way want to learn more about what we do and how you can be part of it visit mypasco.net and click on job and volunteer opportunities our team is more than 2 700 strong your neighbors friends and even family members [Music] come join Pasco County and make a difference every day don't break my baby [Music] here in Florida we're no stranger to rain and Pasco County Public Works wants to show you how we're working to improve drainage along your roads our crews work hard to keep your roads in great shape and you'll notice after a heavy rain we often see ponding or standing water on the road that doesn't easily drain away ponding can be a problem for a couple reasons most importantly it can be a safety issue because when you drive through standing water you can start to hydroplane and lose control so why does ponding happen in most cases it's because the shoulder doesn't slope away from the road so the water doesn't have anywhere else to go Pasco crews are

always on the lookout for these problem areas and have a relatively easy way to fix them most Pasco roads that have water ponding problems have a sod curve where the Grass Grows Right up next to the road our crews use this machine called a greater shave off about three feet of sod running along the road this creates a slope allowing water to run away from the road our crews also use a loader to scoop debris sweeper to clean the work site then finishing touches are added like new sod or stone to prevent the fresh soil from washing away and just like that ponding is gone and your roads are protected this easy cost-effective fix doesn't alter the rights of way or affect your property in any way [Music] thanks for watching and please visit mypasco.net to learn more about how Pasco is working for you hey I'm Kevin Jenkins water quality supervisor for Pasco County what you see behind me tends to create a lot of questions for our department people ask all the time why are you wasting all that water War why is that thing still running the answer is simple we're not [Music] you see happening here is a state regulated process called water quality flushing it happens every day to keep your drinking water safe our team is responsible for checking more than 122 000 connections all over Pasco County as you can imagine it's a daunting task but it's work we do proudly and take seriously we serve as both residential and Commercial connections and flush water mains periodically for preventative maintenance it helps get rid of impurities sediment and biologic growth this work can be done by a team member or by an automatic flushing device known as an afd afds can flush pipes remotely so there you have it and now you know that's our flushing process in a nutshell Pasco County works hard to maintain the best water quality this is just one way we get to that point to learn more about this and other Pasco County Utilities information please visit our website at mypasco.net [Music] hi I'm Angelo Lorenzo regional manager at the New River Library we're putting on the final touches at your favorite branch there are lots of changes inside and out starting with the parking as you know we've moved to the entrance drive to the east side of the building and on your way to the parking lot you pass a book Return kiosk undercover from the elements to keep you nice and dry when you're just dropping off a book we've added new Landscaping to the entrance and a bright new sign to keep you informed of events and happenings at the library at a glance inside the flooring is complete along with the ceilings and Lighting an expansive new front desk is the Hub of the library with friendly staff ready to assist you quickly and efficiently the furniture shelves and fixtures are

in place and we're preparing to deliver the books to the branch soon the Discovery Gardens at New River are the gem of the library we'll have a variety of display Gardens sensory features and of course garden beds for your use we've also installed a covered area for holding seminars and demonstrations we know you're anxious to enjoy the remodeled New River library and we are eager to show it off follow our social media pages and pascolibraries.org for updates and for the opening date thank you [Music]

we provide a place to seek support and services [Music] thank you we provide you a way to keep going [Music] and create key Partnerships [Music] we provide a place to play and preserve precious resources [Music] we provide you a place to learn and create thank you we provide you a place to rescue and care for your Furry Friends [Music] we provide a place for you to flourish and agree [Music] we provide you our destination to invite on your next adventure we believe it's essential to give the best resources to you your family and our community we are humble and proud to serve you we are Pasco County Public Services foreign [Music] I'm the Pet Services Supervisor here at Pasco County Animal Services I am very blessed to work with our rescue Partners every single day as they visit our shelter to remove animals that are not eligible for adoption either due to severe medical or behavioral concerns our rescue partners are essential in helping us meet our save 90 mission to ensure that at least 90 percent of our animals are live released as Robert Slade of Norman's World rescue hi I'm Devlin and I'm with regas rescue and project golden years I'm Robin vetro the president of Norman's royal rescue I am Dr Carrie Burick I am a rescue coordinator for Suncoast Animal League in Palm Harbor Florida I love and work with my County because my shelter loves and respects our rescue we have a large development in an educational boundary that knows we take the special cases I think the best thing about rescuing is that as low as as low as it can get I'm probably going to get emotional with this as as bad as it can get in the things that we see as bad as they are we know that we have the ability to make them better we have the ability to make these animals lives amazing it's it's just that these poor animals what they go through and they're a lot of what they're backstories where they come from and all they want is somebody to love them so we figure if we can rescue them whether they're injured sometimes behavioral we rehabilitate them and find them at home it's just something that we're the voice of them they they don't have a voice unfortunately about five years ago we adopted a dog that was a rescue dog his name was Norman he lived here um he showed us that whole world where there were these dogs that people just overlooked because they were different

Pasco County Animal Services is an excellent partner to Suncoast Animal League I mean we have a great relationship we work together in rescuing animals and improving the animals lives and getting these animals out getting them the medical care that they need and getting them where they need to go as far as Pasco County Animal Services go it is the best shelter in the five counties we've visited we actually live in Hernando but we visit all the shelters and we get the most help the most love from the people that work here the people that volunteer here they become family and that means more to us as a rescue because we have a support system outside our foster base our county has come so far from where it had been 12 years ago when I was a director at the sbca locally we have come so far Feats and boundaries where dogs like rtex here who was a hit by a car who was a very stressed out not a really appropriate shelter dog that we wouldn't have been able to treat here at the shelter we get that phone call hey can you you're one of our partners that'll do card cases like this in the car on the way not a problem for us it's just an invaluable partnership you know and I think that we've managed to change the lives of so many animals save the lives of so many animals because of this partnership and it is just a really cool thing [Music]

[Applause] [Music] they serve as I did fight for our freedoms we here at go Pasco want to return the favor by serving you go Pasco offers all active duty military and Veterans unlimited free rides on our fixed route buses when you step on the bus to show the driver one of these forms military ID Card DD Form 2 valid VA card V on your driver's license or go Pasco veteran ID go Pasco where veterans ride free [Music]

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[Applause] [Music] thank you [Music] foreign [Music] [Applause] [Music] two back a couple years ago this was just a bridge this was overpass Bridge from Old Pasco Road all the way over to Boyette and Beyond and what we've done is take it and turn it into a full interchange with I-75 so full access Northbound southbound big difference from what we had before this is all about quality of life for our residents when you think about how long people have to sit in traffic these days especially this is about again getting people to work getting people home getting people to their sporting events so they quicker so they can spend more time with their families again quality of life it'll separate that traffic from 56 54 and up to 52. and it'll spread that traffic out and our Citizens need that they're it's really congested out there by working together we can often Advance projects many years and we've had a number of good examples in Pasco County this being the latest but the state road 56 extension the new 52 realignment all great projects and if the county in the state had not worked together we'd probably be looking at year years before we'd be able to deliver them you know we have a great relationship with secretary Gwynn and the F Dot and it took about 10 years to bring this Interchange to fruition but we knew how important it would be for this area and it's not it's not a normal thing when you're able to get a new inner interchange like this so um so we're very excited about it [Music] yeah the river's not so high right now we should be all right it's a pretty good flow to it though I grew up thinking if I could just drive a truck around in the woods or being out in nature that'd be a perfect job and I kind of found that here at the district being able to airboat to different lands drive out and in portions of the withlacoochie or boat down at the river's length is just absolutely amazing to me about here I it's just a wonderful place to be in to spend time and it's amazing to me that I'm able to do that the with kuchi River has about a 2 000 square mile Watershed which means this is the area the portions surrounding the river that when it rains it could potentially flow into and feed the river I'm Dr Mark Fulkerson a senior professional engineer with the southwest Florida Water Management District the with the coochie's where I call home it's where I grew up it's where I was born and raised developing a great love for the outdoors currently I'm the project manager for the Withlacoochee River Watershed initiative as you paddle down the river you never know what you might encounter

it might be a snake a turtle a gate or a bird and this is GS 108 the Withlacoochee River Watershed initiative is a really a multi-year effort that is designed to better understand the Dynamics of the river and its Watershed okay go out in the center line to identify how certain alterations may or may not have affected the river system and to try to identify different ways that we can better manage the river got it river is 160 miles long it begins in the green swamp and passes through all or part of eight different counties before eventually discharging into the Gulf of Mexico this is one of the few rivers that runs northward the name with lacuchi is derived from a Creek Indian word meaning little big water which likely defines the high and low fluctuations that the river naturally experiences understanding the fact that the river is going to fluctuate low and high is a is a critical component this is a pretty good indication that water's been this High likely from the 2004 hurricanes in addition to these natural fluctuations man has changed the river over the last several decades and really over the last hundred years in an effort to transform its natural function into one that benefited private needs and really they were in in the name of navigation or certain industries like the phosphate industry or Timber or citrus because the Withlacoochee River has experienced extreme highs and extreme lows and and really last several decades and also because there were many man-made alterations to the river system because of that there are a lot of public concerns the southwest Florida Water Management District has been working on this effort since 2006. really this the work began six years prior to that in in the year 2000 when the US Army Corps of Engineers began looking at the entire Watershed and realizing we needed to come up with a comprehensive tool to analyze the entire system as a whole how can we build a tool of the entire Watershed how can we look at all 2100 square miles as a whole instead of just focusing on one area we realized we really needed to map out the entire river system the accuracy of a model is only as good as the data we put in and for this effort we really went above and beyond collecting probably 70 000 bottom elevations all the way down the Withlacoochee River to play a bit of place into this model to to characterize it accurately in order to gather the information we've needed for this effort I've basically walked or voted the entire stretch to the withlakichi river Gathering the data and that took over two summers [Music] it was really kind of like a pioneering in a sense probably not many people that have seen that portion of the with the kitchen River it looks like the river's come up a little bit since yesterday it was difficult you know we many times we just kind of have to Traverse ahead of ways walk through the

Walk of the banks a long ways to try to figure out where the river goes it's not very well defined in many portions of the green swamp as we March down the river you know we were locating our position by GPS we were using the survey Rod putting it down to the bottom of the river to get that elevation many days you know just chopping along the banks of the river so that we could have that clear line of sight we were walking from 8 30 Until Dark just about every day one of the main goals of this study is to get a better understanding of the entire river system as a whole and to be able to use that understanding to make management decisions that are going to enhance the resources there were many meetings public workshops working groups initiatives that that brought the public in and together to kind of identify what are the issues in the river system it's right on the first step in identifying those