04.07.2021 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Hybrid Virtual Meeting (Afternoon Session)

public hearing fine there was a motion made I wanted to I understand yeah we know you're in a hurry but wait a second is anyone uh signed up to speak on WebEx or is there anything no WebEx and no email on this no email okay is anyone at the kiosk to speak to this item at the DAT City kiosk okay thank you okay with that we have a motion and Mr thank you Mr chairman um hopefully Mr horer you can you can hear me okay I'm having unfortunately I'm having trouble hearing Mr Herer and it was very difficult to hear what he said so if I understand understand correctly again what it says in the memo we're going from Res three office to office yes to office and any just out of curiosity you don't have to Mr her by any means I'm I'm definitely supportive of this um are you able to tell us give us an idea what might go there yes Mr chairman can you hear me yeah that's a lot better all right great I apologize again Michael Herer for the record 14502 Dale May highway so we are proposing a on story professional Office Park these will be pitch roof gladian Windows Landscaping approximately 70,000 square feet we are puring only the Upland area of the Swift Mud property no wetlands are part of this site we have unified our access coordinated with the curb cut requirements uh to West Boulevard we have unanimous recommendations for approval my client is excited to to build this Office Park think it's a great location we appreciate your support right thank you for that sir and I will great project it sounds like definitely need more office in the area much more than we do other things so second thank you okay I have a motion in a second all those in favor say I I roll call roll call vote it's an ordinance oh it is a roll call okay roll call vote District Two commissioner Mor I District three commissioner starky I District Four commissioner Fitzpatrick I District Five commissioner Mariano hi district one chairman Oakley I a motion pass 5 Z okay thank you board members all right thank Youk you um next 50 p50 item p50 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on February 17 2021 and by Affidavit of certified mailings and site postings item p50 is PDD 21211 it's an ordinance amending Pasco County comprehensive plan providing for a smallscale comprehensive plan Amendment to the Future land use maps map 2-15 and Sheet 16 changing from res one residential one dwelling unit per gross acre to I industrial Light on approximately five acres of property located on the northwest corner of old Lakeland Highway and Townsen Road providing for a repealer severability and an effective date today today's the adoption on this item so we're asking that you adopt the comprehensive plan Amendment uh by roll call vote please

okay is anyone uh on email or WebEx to speak this item there is no one on WebEx or email on it you should have you should have an applicant though okay the applicant would like to speak I'm here Barbara willik can you hear me Commissioners yes 6327 Grand Boulevard Port Richie Florida 34652 for the applicant we come to you uh to change a residential land use to a light industrial land use at this location which is on Old Lakeland Highway we come with the staff's recommendation of approval and unanimous Planning Commission recommendation of approval would ask that to approve okay is so there's no one on web X want on email is there anyone at the kios there is nobody at the date City kiosk okay you've got Newport Richie active as well oh anyone the kiosk at Newport Richie there's no one at the kiosk in Newport Richie all right thank you Mo for approve a motion second by roll call vote District Two commissioner District three commissioner starky hi District Four commissioner Fitzpatrick hi District Five commissioner Mariano hi district one chairman Oakley I motion pass 5 okay move on to P51 item P51 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on December 23rd 2020 item P-51 is PDD 211179 um this item is actually a request to continue to a date uncertain I believe your there the your agenda might say continue to April 20th 2021 at 1:30 in Newport Richie uh but since that time we have spoken to the representative who hopefully is on WebEx today and he would like to continue the item to a date uncertain so that it can track together with the master plan unit development District adoption when they apply for um when the mpud comes through the public hearing process and uh should be Joel to okay does African want to speak yeah Mr chairman Joel too can you hear me can't hear you we can't hear you I'm sorry can you hear me now something's wrong with it hello can you hear me all right we got it now we got the volume up we can hear you thank you yes Joel to to an Associates for the applicant just to confirm that that when you transmitted the plan Amendment we agreed with you that we would hold the final op option hearing on the plan Amendment until the MPD hearing was scheduled to be final so that you would see both of these at the same time uh we're getting close on the mpud but we do not have hearing dates yet so that's why this is an indefinite continuent pending the mpud review thank you all right thank you move to continue public comment okay uh is there any public comment any email continue go ahead okay there's no one on WebEx and no emails on this item is anyone at the kiosk in Dade City there is nobody at the kiosk in Dade City thank you kiosk and Newport Richie there's no one at the kiosk in Newport Richie okay thank you all

right back to the board pleas continue second got a motion second all those in favor say I I I okay uh motion pass 5 Z okay we move to or p52 is continuance p52 p53 and p54 are continuances you want to give us the proof the proof on all of them item p52 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on February 24th 202 1 item p-53 was published in the Tempa Bay Times on February 24th 2021 and item p54 was published in the tempay times on February 24th 2021 okay on item p52 PDD 27509 I do want to read a correction into the record that should be uh commission District Two not commission District 5 I did provide a corrected uh memorandum to the clerk's office I saw that um so that item uh PDD 21759 conon Village 3 and 4 mpud lar homes LLC that is a request for continuance to the April 20th 2021 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 in Newport Richie does the African want to speak on this Comm this is this Clark hobby we we uh we have no objection to the continuance okay back to the board they do it now yeah I just make sure yeah continues so second all got motion second all those in favor say I motion pass 5 Z Item p53 is PDD 27514 BMI LLC and that's a continuance request to the May 18 2021 Board of County Commissioners meeting at 1:30 in Newport Richie okay can I speak on this same appin or yeah these are these are all they're all continuances so they agreed upon continuances that are shown on your agenda as continuances you don't need to take the move continue second got a motion second to continue all those in favor say I I all oppose like sign motion pass 5 p54 Ed 27524 Swift Mud Cy Cypress Ridge Professional Center this is also a request to continue to May 18th 2021 at 1:30 Newport Richie continue second and motion second to continue all those in favor say I I I I'll oppose like sign motion pass 5 z uh p55 item p55 was published in the Tempa Bay Times on March 17 2021 and March 24th 2021 good afternoon Joanne Rita real property and planning the real property and planning team has received a petition to P to vacate a portion of a ploted right of way filed by one Luchi Center the property is located at the south end of will Avenue in the town of Luchi the petitioner has requested the vacation for the purpose of developing the adjacent properties there were no objections to this petition and the team recommends approval okay have we have an acent on this or R is on WebEx can you answer questions who is Mr Ronnie de he's the petitioner okay and the comment is that no comments I the petitioner he'll answer questions if you've got questions oh I okay all right okay doesn't look like he wants to make

a presentation does anybody hear from the public want to speak any WebEx or no public comment from uh WebEx and no emails on p50 okay have is there anyone at the kios and D City there is nobody at the kiosk and dat City all right thank you uh how about the kiosk in Newport Richie no one at the kiosk in Newport Richie thank you move approval than second I got I got a motion in a second all those in favor say I I all oppos like sign motion pass 5 Z p56 item p56 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on March 28th 2021 Denise Hernandez Planning and Development I I do have a question for the board am I doing a presentation on this item today um we went this is a continuous is it this is um we had a discussion on this item on I believe it was January 12th and it was continued for 60 days and I think it was continued at the last board meeting again just I'm just checking you had it you this this is the one you had a full and complete public hearing it came back at your last meeting commissioner Moore asked for the hearing to be reopened and it be read vertis in the board has has all the the staff presentation for this one unless you were unless for some reason you want it you want to hear it over again um but you had a complete presentation by staff prior at a prior meeting okay so we don't have to take public hearing or anything you do have to take public you do have public comment and my understanding was that that that I'm the applicant probably wants to make a presentation and I there was additional information that was going that uh I think the commissioner was going to meet with fdot correct um so I'm not sure procedurally how you want to do that but whatever new evidence is you have to give the applicant time to rebut and you got to take public comment on whatever the New Evidence is for this for this project okay is the board okay with the presentation we received before on this item or would you like to hear that I'm okay with it I'm okay Mr chairman don't we you need new information though right yeah I I it was mine yeah not you can we can wait for the applicant's presentation I'm fine with that well we may have questions for you and happy to answer them see what new stuff back answer them shall I read the item into record just to open it please okay thank you so much and need I think I did the oh you did thank you awesome pd21 cu8 p56 it's conditional use at Ventus Health System Sun Bel Health Corporation for multiple family dwellings in a C2 General Comm General commercial District uh the item comes to to you with a recommendation and with altern alternative considerations um to the board and uh it was approved uh with conditions the recommendation of approval with conditions from the Planning Commission um and that was a 41 vote if I'm not mistaken here for any

questions okay the 32 32 I'll look at the at the agenda memo to verify that thought I deny the vote was on the vote was on U oh on the continuance yeah okay sorry make sure we're right staff the app uh the Planning Commission recommended approval of Planning Development okay got you got got got okay sorry about that no that's okay clar you're on the same page yeah cuz we didn't vote on it we right we continued the item okay so uh it's time for the applicant to speak hi this is Barbara will height 6327 Grand Boulevard New for Florida 34652 we have our full PowerPoint which staff has that we've went over before I have my full team available Pete pensil from Avid as well as our client um Aaron Landry from Mass capital and Steve Henry U linkon Associates we're happy to give our presentation again you have that in your packet um if you would like I can just hit some high points I would ask that that we get a chance to rebut not only public comment but I think commissioner Moore has some factual testimony um based upon maybe a meeting with the fdot um we'd like a chance to you know hear that and also rebut that or discuss it or whatever it may be I'm not sure what the information is but we do have Steve Henry um to participate in any discussion regarding that so with that would you like me to proceed with just a high level summary or would you like us to go through our PowerPoint again high level summary is fine what I think it's just a high level summary is fine person okay the whole I can do that on behalf of our team and as we get to rebuttal if we need anything specific from my teammates um we can bring them forward to participate um including U Mr Henry if the discussion is going to be Transportation related but at a very high level Transportation first the project has no access to eagleson Boulevard the project access is on BR Bruce be downs and that project access has been approved by fdot as you will recall the the project is the property is currently zoned C2 and can be developed as a matter of right with C2 uses the traffic generation for this project as multif family is significantly less than the trips approved uh for a C2 project as Mr pensel explained to you from Avid engineering during his U PowerPoint presentation which you have um in your packets the staff made sure you had sure you had this is not a viable or desired location for C2 been zon since the 80s and is still vacant the multif Family Residence in this location will support the existing older retail at Bruce be downs and Wesley Chapel Boulevard hopefully to revitalize and to continue um to have that retail viable in that location so it doesn't blight also um the other thing I wanted to point out was that the board's comp plan has adopted policies about where commercial development should occur at

intersections and this property was zoned in the 80s and did not meet the BC location at intersection this is the right location for multifam of all the the things I've heard the county say over all the years about how to do a mixture of uses and how to locate a project this one meets all of those this is walkable to existing retail it's also walkable to the employment at the two car dealerships which is uh Lexus and Toyota it's walkable to employment at blue hair and Al and walkable to the new bay care hospital which is under construction and will open in 202 three which is around the same time as the project you'll recall that in our PowerPoint presentation we had letters of support from both um the ALS Blue Heron as well as Bay care this project is consistent with the mixed use land use designation that this board put on the PO put on the property it's a a transitional land use from the commercial to the north to this multifam to the town homes to the South and ultimately to the single family detached to the South it's exactly in line with the board's adopted and very specific mission in its comprehensive plan for this area which is for high density in compact mixed use locations the comp plan was adopted to guide development and my client has followed the adopted bccc policies and this project should be approved and that is that's my high level summary we'll listen to public comment listen to commissioner what M commiss Morrow had to add and then we'll come back and provide any rebuttal as necessary okay let me is anyone on WebEx or an email to speak yes um we had two people register but only one person is onb uh two emails were provided to be read into record however one of the emails is provided by the Gent that's on web WebEx do one or the other but if he's there to speak we let him speak take yeah I would take his live testimony yeah that's better yeah so um I'm sorry let have okay um Mr Mark McBride if you could state your name and address for the record I do probably I need to swear him in I'm Mark McBride 4244 windrest Drive Wy Chapel Florida 33544 sir could you please raise your right hand do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God yes thank you sir you may proceed all right well thank you I um first wanted to say that um you know I I believe we have a solution to this potential problem and did try to reach out to Commissioners on this topic and was kind of disappointed I didn't get a call back but I do think that there is uh a potential middle ground that we can reach here and the first thing is that you know when you look at this property if you were to face the property turn Southwest and walk a th000 feet you're going to find a parcel of land that is zoned for apartments and that property we have no problems with being developed and we're not anti-

Apartments we're is concerned with the oversaturation of apartments and so we have to kind of ask why would we change the use of a property when there already is property in the neighborhood that is zoned appropriately for this and while there has been comments made that this wouldn't be taxing to the schools we do feel that you know when you add um this apartment building the apartment building that's zoned and then the property that's being proposed by Sam's Club in addition to the already apartment buildings we have in Seven Oaks the one across the street from Seven Oaks the one adjacent to S Oaks and the one on the other side of the street of Seven Oaks then the new ones in Wiregrass Ranch the new ones down 54 that are under construction and the new ones that are going to be built at the Grove we are highly concerned that there is an oversaturation we're not against Apartments we would welcome this developer with open arms if they would build it on the property that's already zoned you know there was an analogy made against uh you know that Apartments use less uh school desks than houses do but this is not about houses this is about office space and offices use zero School Des offices contribute money to the schools in the form of tax dollars and sponsorships for Proms and baseball activities whatever the case might be and we're going to be missing out on this there's been some talk about having affordable housing there's a misconception that apartments are affordable housing that's not necessarily the case um some many apartments in our area have rents higher than that of mortgage payments you know I did file a petition uh online with very little effort with within um days we had over 500 signatures it's up to 787 in the past we had 1,146 signatures on petitions against the oversaturation of apartments and um you know I just ask that you take this into consideration because this is is not from one subdivision this is from Wesley Chapel this is from Lando Lakes this is from many different areas in our community um and so you know we just really ask that this board take a hard look at the exceptions that are being made why we're making exceptions when there is already land available for this and the potential damage that could happen as a result of oversaturation of of one particular use and um that's that's basically my comment okay Mr chair right Mr mde may be under the impression that the petitions he emailed um would be in the record at at his request so um I just want to make the board aware that since we took his testimony requested that the petitions be part of the record all the petitions for okay all right we have to uh have a motion for that that right yes sir move second a motion second all those in favor of petitions being a part of the record say I I I I Mr chairman motion pass by thank you just a quick note for Mr McBride um I thought we were not supposed to talk to anybody

about these hearings so even when information come over I didn't make any contact and I think that's what we're all instructed to do well it opened back up it opened back up okay all right well that's why I didn't Mr mcgr thank y okay uh is anybody you have anybody nobody else on WebEx no one else on WebEx let me just double check make sure yep no one else on WebEx I do have one email to read into the record Okay g to take the kiosk first in case anybody at the kiosk and date C there is nobody at the kiosk and date City okay anybody at the kios in Newport Richie there's no one at the kiosk in Newport Richie all right thank you back to the email okay these this email is from Miss Lanna Walsh at 3338 grass Glen Place Wesley Chapel Florida 33544 dear Commissioners I request that the details from this email be read into the record on Friday January 8th I submitted an email in preparation for the agenda item P85 the proposed rezoning of multif family dwellings in ac2 General commercial District on the west side of Bruce B Downs Boulevard I stated my reasons why I was against it but after reviewing the commissioner's meeting on January 12th I have additional items of concern to point out original concerns one having 248 units can easily bring 400 plus cars to the area two we are already in a battle with three other Redevelopment issues within seven oaks this is becoming exhausting we are a master planned Community with a way of living that we all bought into we are not looking for busy roads within our community three we do not have to develop on every single piece of land that we have why can't we have some parks dog parks and green space for the Wildlife four seven oaks is one of the most beautiful residential neighborhoods in the area and I'm extremely disappointed that my property value has not increased as much as it should we have too many master plan communities with new homes being built that are impacting our wallets added concerns one if we already have an area that is zoned for potential apartments in Seven Oaks along Interstate 75 we do not need to saturate the S Oaks area with more two we are adding The Blue Heron assisted living facility and the bay care hospital which is going to bring more traffic to the area the intersection at state road 56 in brisby Downs is a large congested area we are going to have people using ancient Oaks Boulevard to cut through to those facilities ancient Oaks Boulevard should not be used by anyone other than someone who lives in Seven Oaks or who is visiting someone in s Oaks it should remain a community Road and not a cut through we already have problems with speeding along that stretch of road as it has been announced that we are going to have speed humps added to the plans for the neighborhood which is something else I am against why do law abiding

have to deal with the daily beating of their cars along another issue once the library is built we will be drawing even more traffic from ancient Oaks Boulevard to Mystic Oaks Boulevard that area is already too congested with the school three why do we have Portable Buildings at 7 Oaks Elementary if we are not at capacity from what I believe the developer mentioned we are at 101% not sure of the numbers but we should have a building that can house the students we already have and if you add the apartments we are going to be adding more students to the school or we will be looking at resoning again number four if we allow three four-story buildings to the build to be built in that area it is going to impact our property values even more than I was originally concerned about the sample drawings of the buildings look just like the other 10 plus apartment communities that have been built along State Road 5456 and outside Livingston Oaks believe a lot to be desired from an aesthetic point I am completely against Apartments any time that's it that's okay all right thank you um so we've that's that's end of the public comment part except do we want to go to discussion for letter reut or if commissioner Moore has evidence he wants to put in the record it's got to be now it's got to be now so that's what I was recognize Mr Mo for that no thank you Mr chairman I won't talk I'm not g to talk about anything else because everything else will be after the applicant is finished rebutting the testimony from from um obviously from the public speakers then it comes back to the board so this make sure procedurally we stay on track so we could have our debate and discussion after that so I will leave everything else till then but I did want it one of my concerns was at the previous meeting where we continue this was um something I had heard um potentially from fot about a closure of a median in the in the direct vicinity so um I see a conceptual site plan here I don't know if there's a way to zoom in and go a little bit um more think about my uh be North on Bruce be Downs I think that's there we go go straight okay there's pull down the eagle okay there's eagleson if you keep going to the right a little bit we may not make it there okay it's not going to do it that's okay all right if you scroll up a little bit more Poss no the other way I'm sorry up so the there we go push up there we go Okay so at some point um fot is going to put a traffic signal as was discussed at the corner of eagleston in burby Downs currently just north of here on the Eastern side of the road is a shopping plaza and the shopping plaza has a sunny a Taco Bell um has a Publix and obviously a couple more out parcels and um and um a few other retailers that are attached to the to the um publ um and F dot is going to right after eagleston close the median what that means is that all the

traffic that is going to pull out of the Publix that has to go north will not be able to cross the median anymore to go south that's going to cause a huge backup which it currently does already I see it on a regular basis pass eagleston now eventually hopefully because it's not in the plans and no plans have been submitted when this happens and the media en closes there's talks and I've had conversations with f.2 in the developers across street that they could possibly do another Ingress egress out of Publix but that's going to be a long process that's not going to be overnight that's going to be something obviously the Count's going to have to be involved in Fat's going to be involved in and the develop themselves to build the access access on the Eastern side of the road so Mr Mo yes sir the meeting you're talking about is it right here I wish you could see down the road it's just North so we're not looking at the median that they're gonna close yeah so event So eventually there's going to be a signal there but now there's no plan submitted for across the street on the Eastern side eventually hopefully if it's approved by the county approve approved by fot at some point um there will hopefully be an Ingress egress out of there where the people in the shopping center can leave right now though they're closing the medium shopping center I I can't see that far the the shopping center on the southwest corner of public it's yeah it's right here so if you it would be right there this yeah it's right there Northeast so anyway so the median to cross the median right there going north is going to is going to be um is going to be close so when and I bring this up because I know some of my some Commissioners and some of the public had talked about the increase and the backups of TR of traffic at that signal on Bruce be Downs in Westy Chapel Boulevard currently it backs up it's going to be back up more now because the meeting's going to be closed and we don't know how long before again there's going to be some type of relief that's going to force people to actually do a uturn in two spots they're going to have to do a u-turn at the corner of Bruce be down to 54 which is an impossible U-turn up in my opinion to make I tried it in my truck and had to do a three point turn in the middle of an intersection which is not safe at all um or they're going to have to go around the bin and GLE right on 54 and do a u-turn on 54 and come back around again can you show us where that is on the map I don't understand where the public is U that's Maps doesn't show what we're looking at drink it a little bit okay cool okay I just see empty land [Laughter] I don't I see no shopping I don't know what what this that that's eagleson that's eagleston South you need to go to eagleston North just Steve Henry yeah yeah that hasn't been developed yet yes in in the in the the speaker was correct earlier where is there is going to be literally there's entitlements across

the street already for apartment complexes on that side but are they putting the map up we're waiting yeah I think I don't know who Taylor just to commissioner Moore I have just sent an email to uh Jordan and Todd with I thought their map would have showed it but I guess it didn't yeah it's okay just go to Google yeah Google Maps if we could we can just do that real easy I can't tell which one of these is public in the meantime we're waiting for that to come up M Mr chairman kind I just let me just ask a question because commissioner Mariano made a point a little while ago that stating that um the gentleman um that's pretty much representing Webby Chapel in Lena lakes and a lot of these Department issues had reached out and did not receive responses and now he just mentioned a second ago his concern was that he thought it was still he was not able to meet with them um I I mean commissioner fish Patrick did there we go they okay they reached out to you as well did were you able to meet with with the community or I don't recall yeah because I think it would be a good idea I think it'd be a really good idea to take the time to actually go and meet with with this community and meet with the people that are working on lot these issues and spend some time with them before moving forward with something like this for sure um okay so can you zoom in just yeah you're you're right we need a commissioner we need to zoom in okay there it is there it is okay see see Eagle Sten and then see the median go go north a little bit more if you don't mind be a light right there So eventually there's going to be a signal okay right but right and then go a little bit north okay so they're going to close off this median so so see where everybody comes out see where Sunny's and look at and look south of Sunny's see that road and there's that median where it says Bruce be Downs Bruce be Downs that's a huge median where all the traffic right now that wants to go back south on brby Downs comes across a median goes south they are closing that they're literally closing that Medium right now traffic does back up especially at in high traffic hours yeah um all the way past eagleston um to all the in that past eagleson all the way up to the corner 54 and Bruce B Downs now that they're going to close that median all that traffic that was doing going south across that median won't be able to do anymore they're going to have to go north and to a uturn if you keep moving up go north for me more if you would just keep moving North North North they're going to go all the way up there keep going a little bit north and attempt yep attempt to do a U-turn mhm what you can't see too there's this cement structure like a barrier that's kind of in the middle of that intersection too which makes it very difficult to do if

you go you can't see it unfortunately it's in the middle of almost the middle of the road um to go around and all that traffic coming off I75 right now what it does they they go to that right turn lane so and they and they hang a right on 581 they don't yield they just keep going um so that makes it very difficult to do a U-turn there as well so that was something I wanted to bring up because when we talk about we talked about traffic so whatever was talked about during the traffic study previously not going to be the same so the applicant talked about a traffic study they did a traffic study that was not taken into account because they weren't aware of this closure of happening um possibly within eight months to a year now I'm going to leave it at that for now and then let the applicant go ahead and butt anything that they feel they would want butt and then I will continue on with my other concerns Miss ra hat thank you Commissioners um regarding schools it it came up in a couple both um Mr McBride as well as the U Miss Walsh email so we do have a slide at included in our PowerPoint presentation at slide 16 that goes through the school capacity It quotes Chris Williams testified before the Planning Commission specifically about the capacity of the schools and ultimately concluded that they don't object to this development and he also thought he also voted in favor of it and said that multif family right in this location is a good fit so we did cover that if you have any specific questions um we have more in our PowerPoint on that I would i' like to ask Steve Henry to um i' like for Steve Henry he's knowledgeable he's met with do several times um and I think he can add some more explanation regarding this project and uh and anything that do is doing in the area good afterno Steve Henry with linkon Associates so want to address a couple things one is on the the median en closure that commissioner Moore was talking about and the signal that is proposed at eagleston so um one yeah he correct that do is closing that right now the the plan is that the signal plans for those improvements are slated to be let in October of this year um and then um start construction you know the the first part of 2022 um those plans actually the four Eagles do accommodate the um do accommodate the uh um that left leg of the intersection um and so it actually the signal was designed to accommodate that we have actually met with do to discuss that and we're looking at the potential to be able to um modify the entrance there to be able to provide that entrance at the same time that they build the signal to provide that connection to the public shopping center so that exactly what you're saying won't happen U and that that that that we won't have the u-turns that you're concerned with the second thing is that

if you go to um slide 10 of um our presentation that shows the site plan the other thing that we're doing we met with DOT on this project and the current median opening that is there just south of eagleston does not meet the do spacing criteria in fact it's too close to that signal that will be at eagleson you'll end up with the same type of problem that you have today with the median opening that is between eagleston and 54 um and so what do has requested that we do is we move that median opening South make it a directional median opening that more closely uh meets the space ing criteria um and will help from the operation of 581 for the separation between the signal that will be at at eagleston um and then finally um as shown in our gra our exhibit 13 of the uh PR point is it the comparison of the traffic that could be generated by the project as it zoned today for commercial versus multif family and it's a significant difference 376 fewer trips in the AM peak hour uh slide 13 um and 567 in the PM peak hour so what we're proposing is making the access better and in addition to that reducing the potential traffic that may be added to 581 with this project I'm sorry can you say that again because they were messing with the um the the screens sure sorry about that so th this provides a comparison of the the daily and and AM and PM peak hour trip generation between the what could be built on there uh as far as commercial versus what we're proposing the multifam the daily trips are about 6,400 fewer daily trips about 376 fewer in the AM hour and about 567 fewer in the PM peak hour so what we're proposing is a significant decrease in traffic that could be put onto 581 into the area as opposed to what what it's currently zoned with commercial okay thank you thank you Mr chairman thank you Steve M wait just is that all of your uh rebuttal oh wait let me ask a question okay Mr chairman yes sir Mr yeah this is be for the traffic engineer if you have a office that came in compared to a restaurant shopping center how do the trips compare to that because that would be an acceptable use as well correct correct uh typically office would be higher than multi it's lower typically than commercial per square foot but but overall would still be higher than the multif family but it's kind of in between the commercial and the multif family okay okay um now and I have I have a question um so I want to understand the oversaturation and I want to hear my staff tell me if we are oversaturated on multif family Mr chairman oh so I I just want to make sure we're done with the rebuttal from the this is back to the board now so if we're asking staff questions are we are we done with the rebuttal from the applicant are we back to the commission and staff they're done yes are you done Barbara sorry she said

I am I I think if I I think if I spoke anymore I'd just be repeating over and over and over so um with that you know have the board discuss and we're available if you have any questions you know as I I back well I still do but some times you know when I would drive around and I would see an old a shopping center that wasn't fully leased and then someone's coming in across the street building a new shopping center I would say why are they building a new shopping Center when this one is not fully leased and um because that's the way our development is allowed to grow I mean one has nothing to do with another and so I guess it's important for me to know if if if the area is oversaturated with multif family so I believe that that a discussion will be had in the future with the board of County Commissioners as we move through the temporary moratorium um for a specific Geographic um area um so that's that's a conversation we will be having in the months to come we don't have that information we don't have that information Mr chairman Mr Moore thank you sir uh commissioner Marana brought up a good point a second ago office too and and I think it's just like anything else matters how how large your office building is and how many units you may have if they're separate condo units you know that's all hypothetical at this time so um the size of that property yeah it would be great if we had we talk about all the time you know we no longer and this is since I've been on the board since 2014 we're trying to go get away from being bedroom community we're we were done with being the housing source for Hillsboro and pelis jobs are what's more important now Mr McBride you know talked about the number of signatures he had and that wasn't just people around quote 7 Oaks that was Wesley Chapel if you look at if you look at it Lena Lakes loots that whole area the C I've have never seen since 2014 this number of people that are concerned and I'll just be Hest with you fed up um than I see now I mean they are coming out in droves it's no secret anymore um I don't think you had one email during this and maybe you did I'd be quite amazed that wasn't from a land use attorney or a developer that said we need more apartments in the area you saw I'm not going to put it back up and bore you but you saw the surveys I did you saw what the the surveys that that came out with the uh this year's citizen survey what the the community stated okay I get it listen and I appreciate it what we go through every meeting they're there to sell us on what they want that's their job that's how they make their money and that's good for great that's this is you know it's a it's a free market and a free economy you're allowed to try to do things but we don't always have to say yes by any means we need to stop this before it gets out of hand so I I think everybody received I

received an email from Bill Cronin today talking about recent requests to convert job created entitlements to residential and multif family and this is coming from the CEO of the EDC that is speaking out more and more against this spot zoning of apartment complexes on Parcels that should be job creating sites to give jobs to our current residents that are here so they do not have to leave Pasco County on a daily basis and he says I respect and applaud the recent decision by the pasel County border County Commissioners to prev vent future convergence from C2 multif family I believe this is another step in the right direction towards ensuring that developers and Property Owners continue to honor the system of entitlements that are in place again that's the key word he said entitlements in place this is a perfect example of what Mr bbde actually said of 100 feet across the street already is zoned for multif family the opportunity is there if they want to be close by go across the street but we don't have to give up more of our job cre tring sites their opportunity is already given to them right there in the same block Lily a chip shot away commissioner Mariano um and this he he will continue to emphasize this is Mr Cronin the need to preserve entitlement need of for job creation whether it's industrial or commercial to ensure that our residential development does not outpace job creation in our County there are still too many people living here or working elsewhere our county is not the Overflow Housing Department for hillsbor and pelis counties we have our own growth strategies in creating more local jobs for our residents as priority further there are plenty of entitlements already granted to fulfill the future housing need remember this is the CEO of the EDC as a matter of fact there are multif family entitlements directly behind this property which you are discussing today in additional multifam entitlements directly across the street which have not been fulfilled and again he says thank you again for your consideration I mean we've got thousands of residents that sign a petition we have the head of the EDC which says we need to preserve this this is what you know if 10 years down the road all the great work we're doing gets changed by a further a future commission we're going to probably be upset right so a past commission sat here and said this is what this should be here everybody agreed to it let's stick with the plan and not get away from the plan because it's going to work it will work but we have to continue to have these job creating sites again I don't want to you know I even thought about reading enough 1700 names today of the people I'm not going to do it because we'd be here for two hours yes sir but so I'm gonna I'm gonna say what I've said on every other quas judicial hearing you've had and that is these aren't a popularity contest the number of people that are opposed to a project is not something

that this board should weigh it may go towards compatibility it may go towards other things but to but when you just say there are 1700 people that are opposed to this project that's not substantial competent evidence for this board to rely on I and I understand that at the same time Mr Stein and I appreciate it but I need to make sure that my fellow Commissioners in District I represent knows what they're saying don't have don't take it into consideration that's fine but at the same time I think it's important for them to realize because you know we talk about knowing I hear from Commissioners and commissioner starky I mean I think back to you know one of the projects you worked on which is in front of golf Harbors which at one time was zoned and it's going to be built for multif family and you were the biggest Advocate to make that not happen and have the county actually purchase the property which is what's going through Pro the process now and that was zon to be multif family that was going to be a apartment complex and and and I commend you for it but you're one of the biggest Advocates to do something else with that property make it a park or something like that versus multif family so you know that's that's a whole different well it's a subject but it's it's that's what it was going to be buying it so we have to part that's what it was going to be at one time and that's what it was Zed for um so you know again you know Mr St CER you you brought the point about it doesn't matter how many people I I mean I get it take the consideration I think it still matters that's just me being elected official and District 2 and representing the people but that wouldn't be part of my motion anyways but you know last time I talked about the application is inconsistent with f2. 3.5.1 the Land Development code and policy fleu 1.8.7 there's a reason because the applicant failed to demonstrate proposed conditional use for multif family will contribute more to the county in Revenue than it will consume in Services EG School Park Library services relative to the non-residential uses Allowed by the existing C2 zoning they're also inconsistent with 42.3 Point f. one the Land Development comprehensive plan for generating uses because the proposed conditional use for multif family consumed land and transportation capacity the county must ensure is available for employment generating land uses same as what you know Mr um Cronin has preached I I'm watching numerous um Planning Commission meetings of the number of people when it comes to Public Safety and it comes to the school board and things that are now speaking out because of this is getting so out of hand and we Al also talk about the um it'll add it will add more students I mean it will it's a fact it adds more students to an elementary school that's over it is over capacity and that's already stated um so proposed that multif family use would adversely affect the quality of life and safety of those students and employees in that

area so you know it we need to preserve our County's Alm tax base preservation of land Transportation capacity for employment generating uses that's what we need to do Mr chairman yes Mr Patrick commissioner Moore you were mentioning there's entitlements across the street do you know our apartment's going to be built anytime soon over there or are they just entitlements for future you know I I don't want to assume anything um ever when that's going to happen I know there has been discussions um but again those are discussions until you see an application you know nothing's for real right until you see I I application is reality but the entitlements are there they can do it tomorrow same with across the street so the available the availability to build multifamily is there now it already is okay and I know the different changes that we're working on um and staff was working on getting us the map showing the C2 zoning and then a layer of the mf1 tws and 3es and then also so a map of where the entitlements are current and future so we're still waiting on that as well we we're still waiting on that yep we still are and that's why commissioner forri and those are good questions good points you made um you know I don't think it it's it we would do we're not doing the right thing we're not doing the right thing for the the community as a whole the future of the community and future of Pascal County especially that area if we continue to move forward with these um today's you know today's a perfect opportunity for you to do one or two things you can say hey I would love to take Mr McBride up on his offer to go see the area and continue this once again or deny it for the reasons I've already given which I did check with obviously the county attorney's office and each one of those are valid reasons to deny or I would not bring them up y I will hold off my motion I will make a motion to deny I'll wait for a second because I know there's G to be discussion Mr chairman yes sir you know one of the quotes that was up on the screen that Chris Williams said and I don't know what the whole context was but when it said a comment of multif family does not impact us as much as residential soon means Res three right but when you consider about the Acres it's out there 16 Acres you got 248 units coming in from multif family well if it was Res three you'd have 16 you had 48 that's a bigger difference and I tend to think that it would probably impact the school even more so if it was going that way it's was not going Res three anyway but right commission Mo you brought up another Point as far as like you know when previous boards I was probably the previous board member yeah that picked and I tell you when I ran at the first time we had like onethird the percentage of what Hillsboro County had for industrial land and that was a big issue that's how we not creating jobs we

don't have any of that well it's hard to create that L because people don't want to wait for it you know if you go down Hay Road you see a bunch of residential in there that was all supposed to be commercial under the potb parcels that all got changed and once one came in more came in and are coming in so if we've set this along to be commercial and we've set it in where we've set up for apartments clearly shown in the same grouping right across the street and and across the other Street then we've allowed I think for the multif family component I hate to see us give up anything that can be a job Creator no matter what it may be because if our people can work locally compared to down in Hillsboro pelis or somewhere else it's better yeah quality of life's better traffic's better the whole thing is better and if we set it up that way at Le least you know unlike commissioner starky says if you see one shopping center being built another one across the street well even if it's not leased out maybe it's still viable because they're still making money to go that's their decision to go do that but our decision is how do we want these lands best used and if I've got an existing area and I've set up apartments for it why do I want to change for more when I haven't even maxed out what's potentially there it doesn't make sense and it goes against you say commissioner Mo previous board's decisions about how we wanted to set this up and I will tell you if you look at the satisfaction people are thrilled now that we are moving to get more jobs here right Bill Cronin think about it we've got Bill Cronin worldwide accepted man who's done so many great things for us he's not afraid to weigh in on different things Etc he knows he orts the jobs and quality of life and if we're going to keep a guy around like that and then I'm think I'm saying he's happy being here and that tells you that we we're doing the right things we need to still look for creating jobs every step of the way this goes against that Mr chairman just a response real quick and you you brought up a good point about you know the retail and the applicant said you know about blight and things like well there's no blight I can tell you right now both those shopping centers are full to capacity it's difficult I hear it all the time from people they cannot find space or land to rent because it's all being taken up those places are full if that one of those storefronts are empty for some reason tomorrow I guarantee you there's already a lease on it because somebody's about to come back in you look at all the things that are happening even at the Grove over you know commissioner Oakley's District so for the longest time unfortunately now we have a great group of people that are working on things there that a lot of that those set empty all those are full now oh yeah so they're moving out to those areas too because they can't find enough land or availability in this area we're talking about now so it's very viable there's not even remotely any blight there what causes blight is to

have this oversaturation of aart complexes you saw it happen in Brandon you saw it I drove Westshore Boulevard last night saw the Old Georgetown apartments that finally got destroyed and they finally raised it because after all those years of sitting there for 20s something years because they couldn't fill them up because of all the other ones built there it's the fact it's not Fiction it's fact so I so I I made a motion I mean let me speak here first so I I've been for this project because I felt like it fit in a puzzle and I I think that project's good I'm a little concerned today about the traffic if that's changing that it is that that bothers me um and and I agree but before us commissioners before us decided that commercial could allow multif family on those type properties and allow they Zone them so I'm I'm not against against what they may but now it's coming to light in in your area that there's a change in that feeling and it's and I think it's a change in this voice these people bring us that because it's loud yeah we can say no though L it's yeah but and that's why we're aboard to say no and like you and I had a great discussion you know a meeting ago and you said commissioner I see what you're going through and what's happening in your district and you agreed so and I appreciate that so I think it's the perfect opportunity to you know let's let's move forward with what we're supposed to be doing which is job growth in that area Mr chairman yes it it is not a permitted use but it is a conditional use so when when you say allowed it's back before you for this hearing because they need an additional approval yeah right exactly yes I understand that thank you for that commission Mr Dy so um so we said it was Commissioners here said was n't a good use to be Apartments because of the traffic that it would cause and now we're told that if we do office or commercial it's going to add more traffic so what happened to that argument that went out the window that's appli not St so so um then then we're told you know I hearing people's comments that this is going to affect their property value is unfactual um um and and I agree you know the county attorney told us when when you have lots of people not want some want not wanting something next door because they mooved there they move to a certain kind of community and apartments might negatively affect their Community miles away you know I you really you know that's not that's not good policymaking when you let that kind of opinion sway you so um what would sway now I don't ever ever and I will never swap industrial Light for commercial or or for multif family and I think it'd be a rare instance when I would take C2 over multif family but my recollection in driving in this area is that it's has an awful lot of commercial in the area and

I would say is it saturated with commercial so um it seems to me that that develop that it's now got a Bell's when I look here it says it's a Bell's Outlet you know when you get that kind of stuff it's because you're getting what $6 a foot or $7 a foot so that that that means there's too much commercial and you're getting the low end of the market for retail there so I would hope that someone would come in and redevelop that but I my recollection of State Road 54 and the top part of Wesley Chapel Boulevard is there's an awful lot of commercial around there I am hoping to take 19 which is has way too much commercial way too much and get some of that out and put multif family in it um so when I look at this site and the hospitals coming in you got all these job opportunities right behind there I was trying to find the I thought I took a picture of it um but I I was looking at a report that came out from someone and I wish I had saved it I thought it said that Hillsboro County had 550,000 apartment units and Pasco County had 15,000 that is not oversaturation so um I'll look at this location I think it's a good location for multif family it's right near the highway it's right near the malls I I don't have a problem with it until someone can tell me that area is oversaturated I'm okay with this one um I do want to see we know you're four Apartments we know you're four Apartments that's that's where I am with this one we know you're and listen I appreciate your opinion we know you're you're an advocate for apartments everybody everybody in the community wears it's a bad you wear kind of like a NASCAR driver wears a patch with a sponsor on it it's very similar so you know I I get it and that's I I kind of resent what you're saying you said am depends on where they are and if there is an over excuse me let me speak you're being really rude oh God if there is an oversaturation I want someone to tell me because I don't think an oversaturation of anything is good but no one has told me and shown me that there is here so I've got a um a motion on the floor and I do not have a second oh yes you do I second it and Mari what was the thank you all right so if I could no I wanted to at one point I just want to talk about the retail that commissioner starky talked about the bell's outlet and calling that low rent or whatever her statement was because it's not people should be able to afford you know not everybody can afford going and buying a $50 $100 shirt you got to give everybody the opportunity and some people don't prefer not to buy that that that Bells has been there for a zillion years they've made so many investments in that and like I said before it's it's full there's not enough space there it's full they refurbished that whole place painted it new stco they're selling out Parcels they're like crazy now because people want them so it's it's not that it's low anything I mean give people an opportunity to have choices if they want

to buy A1 th000 suit or go to Bell's outlet and buy a $50 suit I mean it's not bad it's good gives people options Mr chairman so so to to even touch on bells and Bell's Outlet I mean down at 54 they've got what bells and a Bell's Outlet same all and I happen to walk in the other day looking for some things and I mean Bell's Outlet was Immaculate I mean not not lowend at all probably less money than maybe what Bells might have been but not not a bad thing for a retail to to talk about apartments Etc now you've heard me say if I can get apartments on 19 I'm not against it okay I'd much rather see single family much rather see condos that's gone on the demographics have changed dramatically that's why you see the oversaturation of retail and commercial on 19 because you used to have people coming down from the Midwest let's say or even New York they bought these homes they had great income they bought homes for real cheap money they had tremendous disposable income in the past 10 15 years that's changed dramatically those two-bedroom h Homes or small three-bedroom homes are now filled in with renters I mean we have tremendous rental coverage out there you don't have the same demographics anymore to go to support that's why the gulfy mall has gone down so bad because they can't support it that's why it's down the 54 Carter so commissioner Mo brings up a good apartment a point uh point about apartments that when they depreciate down over time just like single family housing that's real cheap guess what what fills back in there may not be what you want I think that this board set up from the previous boards that when they set up these land uses Etc and the zonings are in place they put in for apartments to be in there now back to the same Point again we put in for apartments if you're not filling up what you've got for apartments already why would I approve more and the reason this conditional uses in there it gives us more flexibility because if we don't like something we get a lot more flexibility to say no than something just coming in and as long as we're following the code Etc if my feeling is if I've got apartments that aren't even been filled in now why am I going to approve anymore it doesn't benefit us and we're not trying to create jobs with Apartments we need to focus keep our commercial as pure as it can be especially right now so um and I want to say one more thing um so I was approached by um a a landowner and a real estate attorney I won't say which one about would I be amenable to having some land owners come together at gun Highway in 54 uh in that area on the southwest corner um that does have some zoning it's it's kind of all messed up with some higher density zoning if they pulled their property together would I be amable amenable to a multif family at that spot and I said absolutely not that's for the fleet Market absolutely not that the fleet Market's there there's there's something else coming in but that land is much better suited for

light industrial and we want jobs in this County so I think it's really inappropriate for you to say what you did as what did I my view is to say is to look at each side on its own does it make sense for multif family to be next to the interstate and State Road 56 to me yes so I don't think it's that's that's a I guess that's more of a excuse me I guess that's more of a planning perspective um there there are sites that are good there are sites that aren't good so you you characterize me in a way that I think was improper and and not correct you said you said it not me said said you wore the badge that's fine I don't wear any you said I wear with the question not call the question because you got a motion and you got a second to deny this project Mr chairman if I can if I can just get clarification of the commissioner's motion that that is the the motion for denial you're making is the same motion you've referenced some of the detail you made the last time but it's the same motion that you made last I can submit to the I can submit for the record as well thank you would these apartments be coming in at the same time before or after the hospital that they were planning on putting in down below so is it R call is it or is it I don't know okay Comm Mr Fitzpatrick I think remember last time you know I I I brought actual facts about the number of healthcare workers that live in the area and there's plenty of healthcare workers by far in the area my wife's a registered nurse when there's a shortage she gets mailers and postcards Bel Galore about needing nurses I haven't seen one in I months and I'm the one that gets the mail years probably used to boom boom boom we don't even see him anymore there's there's no shortage of nurses and Physicians I mean in that area by any means okay I got a motion a second to deny this project all those in favor say I I all oppose like sign or nay nay nay the motion um passes no no you got to make a new motion but it's is the vote is two for denying this project and no she yay to deny it Mr chairman Mr chairman okay while this is unusual why don't you do a roll call vote that's that's what I was thinking earlier so yeah motion to vote motion to motion is to deny District Two commissioner Moore I District three commissioner starky nay District Four commissioner Fitzpatrick nay District Five commissioner Mariano I district one chairman Oakley nay all right so now we um we need a motion approving it yes I understand we have to have a motion approve it if you motion to approve the project move staff you're moving staff recommendation moving staff recommendation second got a motion second by roll call vote District Two commissioner Moore day

District three commissioner starky hi District Four commissioner Fitzpatrick I District Five commissioner Mariano n district one chairman Oakley hi motion pass 32 okay now we move on to r that ends of public hearings and we move on to r45 is that right okay yes sir Mr chair before Angy BR get started I knew it was you already gone you've seen most of this information before and some briefings that we gave to the board so it really isn't necessarily a lot of new information but we wanted to kind of walk through the different options for the the way to do local well local road paving program based on the last meeting since we kind of already had this teed up it just made sense to bring it back since it looked like we were going to have some time today what we're really looking for when when Branford is done that um direction of which option you would like us to pursue further and do more research ONN and bring you you know a little more detail on them because right now we don't necessarily have all the answers for you to make one final decision but what we're looking for really is a go go look at this one this option and this option maybe another option to go do more research on and then bring it back to us so that's really what we're looking for today so with that I will turn it over to Branford and let him go through it good afternoon Commissioners Public Works director um and if we can can we pull it up on the screen yes Jordan okay as um the County Administrator mentioned uh this is about the paving of um local roads the program that we have uh which we all call pasas so the issue here is um we are offering options for discussions uh in terms of um the payment Assessment program pivas uh which uh is currently administratively burdensome and also very costly on a life cycle basis the goal here is to come up with an option that is going to provide us it's going to help reduce the administrative cost um as well as um provide um a sound road for the citizens of Pasco next so before we get into the presentation and I know I have 15 minutes so I'm going to go quickly so i' like to talk about a strategy called Road uh preservation strategy which we don't currently do Under the present program what that means is uh pres preservation is a program maintenance program you apply to a road after you've paved the road over several years it extends the life of the road so a road that would normally last under the current program say 18 years can last 40 years the preservation strategies are very cost effective and um currently when the road is paved if you take a look at the chart to the left uh the condition comes close to the 100 never 100 uh sometime 94 93 uh the current program then nothing is done to the road

and then the road keeps deteriorating uh and then 18 years we are back to the same place similarly you can compare this to your car you buy your new car you don't change the oil you don't change the filter you keep driving it we know what happens um if you look on the chart to the right it shows what should be done you know where you have excellent you have a new road uh you keep applying those strategies I talk about on the left um side of the um of the um of the slide what is called Rejuvenation within five years you applied it's very cost effective uh and then you come to micros surfacing and then you do mail and PVE and you can keep going for at least 30 to 40 years just not spending a whole lot of money reconstructing the road next slide please excuse me for second yes back to the slide on the right screen it says eliminate all delay spending $6 to $10 on rehab what does that mean exactly yes what that means is if you apply the preservation uh strategies we mentioned which we currently don't do which on the other options we are going to present would allow us to do is you are going to not spend 6 to 10 times the amount that we are spending now on roads depending on the timing depending on the condition of your roads now if you apply it at the right strategy at the right point of the road the savings can in terms of the expenditure can be six to 10 times less as of reg of Maintenance yes maintenance prolongs the quality of the road exactly the preservation is the maintenance it prolongs just like your car you okay I got you next okay so this is this is and the previous Slide the 6 to 10 we were modest very modest in that in this and what we found out from our data the current process if you look at the one in red is called FDR uh full dep Reclamation or reconstruction with the current program P program that is mostly what we've been doing because keep keep in mind a road is built you know we can't fix it until there's a petition uh if the petition uh passes then we fix it uh so we are spending close that amount uh on the average uh in the current program if you take a look at the um the chart on the left it shows if we apply these strategies that we are talking about uh the cost savings could be about 65% to the citizens and also to the county next slide please so we are offering um five options actually the first option is the existing system p uh the second option is what we call pvas plus it's a very fancy name we came up with uh and then option three is the countywide non ad Boran assessment uh which is different from uh the ad Balor uh taxes that we currently have option four is the countywide ad baloran taxation um and then the last one in the M mstu which is also a form of taxing unit but then we are able to exclude certain areas of the County uh and then and then tax them and in this case we will have control in

terms of when the road should be paved Mr chairman yes sir another question brenford sometimes we have neighborhoods privately held like seven oaks they'll go in and they'll um seal coat their whole asphalt what's the difference from that to the micros servicing and have you built that into your plan yes the sale code that they do is what is called service Rejuvenation so what they are doing what they call sale cat is service Rejuvenation okay it's different from sler seal which is not good but seal Cod is a service Rejuvenation in the first five seven years if if you just pour that on the road it just brings it back to life it rejuvenates the content of the asphalt and just extends it for another five years I mean what about if you got a road like the road I'm on is probably 15 years old there's a couple little hairline cracks in it but pretty much is not in bad shape but it's rough yes and to me like that would be a good seal coat would you would you look at seal coat in that or would you do the micros surface inste you do a micros surfacing so as long as as soon as you see the cracks appearing is past the seal coat okay so therefore you need to do micros surfacing uh the more cra that means you need to do mail and pave M so as soon as the micros servicing as soon as the cracks start appearing then you do the micros surfacing yeah how does the cost compared to let's say micros surfacing compared to repaving percentage wise it's like 10% 15% okay so so I can um looking at it micros servicing really is about like $35,000 per Li mile compared to compared to if we are doing FDR it's about $500,000 get just regular M service regular mail service you are looking roughly $150,000 about a fifth yes it's about probably five times M okay and if you um if you're going to seal coat you'd rather do that in like year six seven or eight yes ear because you are trying to bring the asford back to life again asford after many years because of the Sun and environment mhm the elasticity of the asphal goes away then leads to cracks uh so you want to just rejuvenate the surface again and then it gives it additional five years three to five years so if you put the micros servicing down it's going to cover the crack and it's not going to buckle under it later on Yes actually in the micros servicing before you do that you seal the cracks seal the crack first okay so that is why you don't want to wait till too many cracks then you pass the micros servicing then you need to do Ma and pave okay all right thank you right next slide please okay so um I'm not going to go through the current process of Piva since we all know what it is um but if you look at some of the pros and cons and we've provided this on all the options on the left the current process Property Owners determine when a road should be paid okay the um keep in mind the failure rate for petition is 70% or the commission decides to do a

false assessment or uh board initiated assessment on the right um we tested the whole roles local roles in the county and all that we spend money doing that so we have information on the data um that the the um what we call the staff we don't make that decision to um to pave the road the road is being made by residents who in terms of when a road should be paved they want to pave it when it's really really bad and even that uh the failure rate is 70% the second thing is the administrative cost is very high uh there the ballots that are sent out ma males are sent out there are workshops there are public meeting there are HOA meetings there are BCC meetings uh on the other options you wouldn't have all that so administrative cost is very high also high maintenance cost because when we fix a road then we don't do anything until the starts coming up it's very frustrating to you know residents to see uh roads that are Beyond portal patching and to also the staff who are back there portal patching RS spending a lot of money for RS that really are Beyond portal patching and they need to be reconstructed also the P program is funded by what we call a seed money so we have some seed money in there that funds the program is very limited and as people pay back then we use that money uh just like it's like a revolving you know uh loan um it's very limited you know the program is growing people are you know roads are being paid that but the money is not sufficient um also when you talk to many uh residents when I'm out there uh they say well I already pay my property taxes why are you accessing me all this money so that is a very big con for this particular program next slide please so option two is what we call PV plus and it's just a combination of the current P so you don't get rid of the current P but what is saying is the program that I was talking about current program we pave the road then we don't do anything else this is going to allow us once the road is peas then we come in there and then uh we are able to do the sort of thing I'm talking about the road preservation um and then uh that extends the life of the road and we are saying all RS if this program is what is adopted all RADS that are P have been peas in the past five past five years qualify and also any new road that comes into the program like new subdivision roads this means that uh residents will be um access an additional money you know uh to come up with this new preservation program which is going to save a whole lot of money compared to how it's currently being done uh and then the last thing is um we will have to modify the current special assessment ordinance to be able to do that next slide Please Mr shman can I ask a question real quick yes I'm a little behind on it but I want because I want to let you finish the next thing um are you familiar with the ha5 stealer ha5 uh I'm not very familiar with that

ha5 you not familiar with that maybe look into it something that's supposed to lock the road in time so instead of adding additional layer that roads off preserves it and helps stop water yes yes so so that is that is probably service Rejuvenation uh because they have different names for different types that are out there so sub surface Rejuvenation is a general term for for for the um for the type of products that are out there yeah I think it's mainly designed for again local neighborhood roads and things not major yes highways right yes correct high traffic Road no something you've looked into or thought about I don't know if I think maybe is it more cost effective very cost effective okay service Rejuvenation is very very cost effective P okay okay that's why I don't know if that's something you could be thought about to save money yes okay okay so um having the current uh P if we uh the option of p plus that means the current P stays but what is going to the difference between this and option one is um eventually over the long run if we keep you know uh doing the p and then applying these strategies the cost of the roads are going to decrease in terms of Road uh Mt uh maintenance uh because it's extending the life of the road um and also you know we the count is applying the strategies there's control uh by public work staff to be able to determine based upon data uh what we need to do to roads that have been p the other Pro is that the administrative burden is going to go down uh and um as Rose gain the benefits of preservation strategies that you see that there wouldn't be too many rows P Ro coming before the board for approval because their lives are being extended obviously when you apply these preservation strategies uh you wouldn't see a portal in a long time they are not going to appear the con about that is that there's um there's going to be a slightly higher direct cost uh to Property Owners because there's going to be an additional not as much as what is being charged now for pivas but there's going to be probably some I'll say about 30% 20% of what is being paid to have to implement the new program and the cons is that the residents are not going to be in the position to determine when their Road needs to be um uh to be maintained uh based upon doing this uh preservation strategy there's there's a note there that says that um Jeff's department is to take a look at that later on the legal Ving there's a caveat out there yes the County Attorney isn't particularly happy with this option okay and I hear you why just because because as it's been described I don't think it's legal oh the the you can't justify a special assessment based on a flat fee in outgoing years there's a way to do this but like it says there this one is still being vetted to I think what to get to

where staff wants to be with this one you'd have to create mbus for each neighborhood that you do to PS for and then on a yearly basis the maintenance could be specially assessed for that subdivision once you start doing flat fees once you're doing well once you're doing flat fees this is tax and so it'll be struck down as an illegal tax okay yeah chairman yes so part of the struggle that I would see as well is when I think of I'll just bring up Seven Oaks again they maintain their roads they go through how do you put them in a group other than separate msbu from them or would they just maintain their own roads so the county attorney's favorite option is the last one that Branford will present to you yes look go there's some pressure yeah so yeah let me go ahead and he's right some brought the legal vetting [Laughter] up next slide all right so so again this is just discussions and then we can come back with the details option three is the countywide non ad borium assessment uh this is just something like the P vales but over all the county but then the county has control of when the road needs to be paved then we are able to apply the maintenance strategies the preservation strategies that I talked to so everybody is going to be um um be be involved in this it's based upon trade generation so that means businesses will have to contribute to that um and then we'll have to come up with a new special assessment if we decide to do that to really uh Implement that uh next slide that's the county attorney's least favorite option just just letting you know I think I think this one is least fa um the pros here is that again you know uh uh we are able to apply the preservation strategies I talked about for all the roads um funding uh is not going to be an issue uh as it is sometimes for the peas because of the seed money uh administrative um burden uh there wouldn't be all the um mailing ballots and workshops and everything else um also there's going to be reduced cost um over many years because you are not going to be seeing a whole lot of portal in a long time um and then uh this is going to allow us to address the dead roads uh that you know are always a big thing for for everybody now their cons is is is similar to the last um slide you know that um um now property owners are not going to be making a decision anymore as to when their rad should be paved uh and um the thing about this is that businesses may not you know like that because you know then um and also businesses may not like that and also the cdds and the private communities um are going to be maybe may they may take a look at their assessment in a different way even though they could be excluded on this one okay so there could be some pession possessions out there next slide option four all right as opposed to the first

uh option three this is at Borum taxation uh again this is going to be um what we have for ad Borum taxation but for it for fixing local roles residential roles and there will have to be a new ordinance um that uh we have to put in place if this option is selected next slide pros and cons are similar Pros life cycle uh Road life cycle cost you know is going to be lowered because of the preservation we talked about uh we're going to have funds to get this implemented uh administrative burden is going to go down uh maintenance C is going to go down uh because we wouldn't be out there patching portol everywhere um also we'll be able to address the debt roads uh and also the cons are similar to the last slide next slide option five option five is what we call mstu and this is uh what we're going to be doing on this is also taxes but then we should be able to exclude uh the cdds and the other um communities that maintain their own local roads a new ordinance will have to be put in place to have that done so you could draw to answer your question that's why I said this was this was the way that you could do what you were asking to do you can exclude the cities you can exclude those cdds that are already doing their own road maintenance and you can exclude private roads that are doing their own Road subdivisions with private roads that are doing their own maintenance in on in within mstu so the adval the non-ad we could not exclude cdds number three the the non-ad vorum county do I have a copy of this a hard copy I don't see one in any of my stuff did we get a copy of this just so I could not ask you this question okay uh the option three I think which is which is the countywide non-ad valorum assessment I think as I said is my least favorite I think it's Dead on Arrival I don't think there's a way I can fix it to make it legal okay on this one here now this um you exclude cities you exclude uh cdds CD let me because there are a bunch of cdds that are not doing their own road maintenance they wouldn't be they would they wouldn't be a part of that they wouldn't be excluded they'd be taxed those that have been done in the last three years let's say that are doing their own road maintenance and especially assessing the residents for that road maintenance would right what what does this do to the people that have just say they've just had a PS and they've got their Road what would it do to those areas it would can it would take it from where their Road currently is now and they would get the um upkeep that that Branford has has talked about they they would they would get ceiling when ceiling is is due they would get micros surfacing when it

is due oh for future of a of a peass road right it say was just done so this will actually collect money that will take care of the future for their Road yes so they don't have to pay any more in right Mr chairman okay yes um know okay so the first one was the regular pest um the P plus was basically you get the initial fee and then there's an extra I'm going to make up a number of $10 on top of that a month um we're not talking about three the millage rate would just be a flat fee for every everyone but then we can include the cdds and homeowners for the millage rate but that would be flat and then CDD would get so in in number two there'd be no millage rate no I'm talking about number four the millage rate I kind of went through all yes it would be in your it would be in your general budget you would fund transportation in your general budget but now are we including the CDs are we home including the homeowners in that one yeah that that's the the way four is characterized it would be for everyone for everyone regardless if they pave their own roads okay so then five I was trying to figure that one out so basically five is five is like you currently do fire it h it is not the entire County but it is most of the county okay so basically you can pay x amount for 10 years or you can pay pay x amount for 40 years but indirectly it's the same amount over the 40 years that you're going to be paying anyway except one spread out and one in a lump some well as Branford said in the beginning of his presentation the hope is that we if they are paying it every year their roads will last longer and so the chunk of change is not going to be as large for them if you get it in time the nothing's going to help the the ones that have roads that are that have disintegrated now there somebody's got to pay for that to be made whole and then the P but at the point at the point that the road is made whole we can make it last longer exactly so yes Mr chairman wait a minute Mr sty raise your hand so um I did on on um looking I so I'm looking at options three non-ad ofal assessment but I know the attorney says we're not doing that one so um but and this is kind of confusing the way I'm trying to compare them I let me just back up and say I think we need to do something I don't like the pvas program I think and I really don't like it now that I see that 70% of them fail so 70% of the time we're wasting staff's time and our time and that's not a good that's not a good plan um so uh that's why I I'm pretty much for board board board and issued board issued because if they're if if someone in the neighborhood is trying to get the road fixed it's because the road needs to be fixed Branford how much how much will the money be charged wait but here but here's my question on when we when on some of them there's

commercial commercial LS assessed right but um Marshall is normally on a collect well it's on a collector or arterial road so in so by assessing commercial and again I don't know if it's again but they'll be helping to pay for the neighborhood roads is that what happens yes the whole idea for you know for actually for option four um five four four or five yeah you know it's going to be everybody in the county um and so you know yes they will paying for the local Road their whole idea is because of their impact of the businesses on the local roads okay but they'll that be that'll be the methodology behind uh trip generation have you put a number on it to what you would need to collect over the county if you did number five yes I I don't we don't have the number in uh here yet the hope is that you can direct us we can go back and bring back the numers because of all them I like number five better because the problem with p is nobody wants to pay for their Road right right to begin with so if they're paying less amount in then that's good yeah Mr chair the the reason we don't have really an answer on number five is we would need to go in and exclude every right CDD or other housing group that maintains their own Road right because you those would be excluded and so that's not a you know a three-hour GIS operation we wanted to kind of get some board Direction before we had somebody actually dive into that because that's going to be a pretty intensive project for somebody to dive into that because you know a CDD that maintains their own Road shouldn't be part of you know what option five would be if you if you want to include a CDD that maintains own Road or an HOA that maintains private roads then option four would be the way you'd want to go but right you know as I'm kind of in line with you know the County Attorney option five probably the one that sounds like it makes the most sense yeah it does to me number one they don't want um number one they don't want to pay PS so that doesn't work number two they don't still don't want to pay P so I mean and then you get number three and you can't do that one so go to number four I like five over four because I think it makes it fair for everybody that's going to be preparing their roads in the future and Mr chairman yes what about the people that just have yeah paid all that money for their current PES yeah they may be upkeeping it but I know with the p plus when you originally presented this to me the pvas plus you still had to do the original Paving assessment and the original p and then still pay an additional so much every single month every year for the future yeah yes now if five option five is picked up uh the the communities that Road will be asset that will be taxed are the ones that road their roads are in a bad condition if your road has already been p and it's in a good condition I think it's going to be a while before you come under option option five okay so so if

we just had the roads P then what sorry you know bring you're bringing up a good point someone who's right now paying for one that just got done it's five years before it even gets done do it to come along and that that road is going to last a long time the other the other flip side of that too is what about the person on a dirt road all of a sudden I'm just going to pay this x amount of dollars to do it and I'm going to get a road paved that doesn't sound like it's going to be fair either because that can eat up a whole bunch of money real quick to keep a shortfall maybe they have to wait a long time before they get to there'll have to be in yes so so won't be all paved at one time all dir so I I would like to mention that we you know um we we tested all the roads in Pasco County arterious collectors and loow caros we have a very good data we have a good very good payment management system with a lot of algorithms in there that can decide objectively what road needs to be paid whether it's dead Road or so so in wherever this program has been implemented uh a pav management system you know is used to help make that decision uh so we are not going out today Paving all dead roads um and so they're going to come in at the right time that you know I mean there wouldn't be a whole lot of impact on the other programs ref I think if you had everybody with a dirt road coming in in one time and you look at what that number would be it would be a phenomenal number somehow you got to break out those dirt roads so they're going to pay an upfront number as well as this regular thing otherwise you're going to bankrupt the program but here's here's the other thing too Jack you gotta got to remember you you've got citizens all over the county so you can't do all my dirt roads and you get non paved so it had to go in districts and do them along so everybody makes everybody happy but eventually you get to them but it takes time I think commissioner you're bringing up a great point because this isn't an easy program to unwind right because as you point out those that have just had their Road paved and they're Paving paying out P for the next 10 years how do you how do you treat them right that's got to be part of whatever solution we come up with that has to be part of the answer in addition to the dirt road issue you know right now on the Fire mstu the undeveloped property isn't part of the mstu right we don't we don't the mstu doesn't match the county boundary so somehow you have to have a forgiveness because you just paid for the road and paid for it so there's got a period of time if you forgive it and then start it say the road's good for eight years or 10 years you forget them because they just got a pest done they paid for it and started at that time when it comes you know prior to it being ready for maintenance so so you have money for so I guess I I don't think I've heard from everybody but I I think what I'm kind of hearing is

kind of cising on around a way to try to make option five work but we got to look at how do we treat the current people that are current PID in pvas or recently have been PID in pvas how do you deal with the dirt roads right so there are still other options we got to figure out as part of but that's kind of why we wanted to have the discussion today because now we can go back and research those right you know Public Works solution GIS county attorney's office and figure out what that looks like and then bring you back something that's a little more baked if you will because right now we're there a lot of issues in there you just can't move from one to the other without unwinding some existing stuff today let me let me throw this idea you've heard you've heard me talk along US 19 come up and down you'll see a lot of white signs you'll see a lot of green signs so the white ones non-county maintained those things in terrible shape I've only seen like one Paving assessment done up and down on on one road that I think we might have even done or they did how do you assess those and when do they come into play as far as bringing them up another great question yeah yeah yeah so so those are some of the roads we call B roads uh and and part of it is um if the um You probably will have to bring them in um for the county to accept them and then they become part of our maintenance responsibility and then you can include them in there as well Patrick thank you so I have four things I'm not I've been raising my hands okay so the current pvas if they've are in a current pvas and maybe they have a current pvas discount and maybe they pbass doesn't start for eight years or 10 years it should shouldn't they shouldn't have to pay the one and the other fee at the same time or kind of stagger it um two I think someone had mentioned Moon Lake to redo all those roads with their roads was $40 million it's a big number about thank you for confirming that and then so basically I would would be curious to the break even amount um would we be paying how much a month for the rest of our life compared to if we were coming in so if you're paying an extra $10 a month for 40 years that would be I don't know anyways so if you're paying 300 to 600 a year or if you're paying pay $120 a year and then over the life it's going to be cheaper at what Break Even analysis Point can you give us so if I'm going to pay $300 to $600 for 10 years is it going to are we going to pay a a fourth of that over 10 years they don't know the number like 150 over 10 years and then it would be BR broke even yes what what we're going to do is we're going to go back you know I'm taking notes in here and come up with that information for you um but we did take a look at it like that you know but the data is not finalized so we can come back with because you don't want to end up paying more or less but you want it fair all across the board thank you I understand this program would only be

for public roads corre it not so those dirt roads that are private dirt roads are going to remain private dirt roads yes I mean that and public roads that are dirt there is some cost saveing to the county because we don't have to send a grader out anym correct it's it's not going to be a complete wash but you're going to have some savings for for that so all right so maybe that does help as far as take care of the dirt road when they do become in to become a where they want to get paved maybe that's the time we take them into the county system and put them into the program too or you put them in the program and they fund the greater operations until they become right yeah because we do some of those we run through pretty routinely yeah oh yeah in my area special right all the time but oh excuse me I just have a procedural question so um you'll do your homework you'll come back to us then do we have to go through ordinance review and is it a month and month thing or what's the process I think it's going to depend on the answer and I mean it really is but my guess is this is not going to be solved you know in the next quarter it's going to take us the time to do some research because we got to vet some of the numbers that are out there uh we got some pre significant subcategories we need to look at and see what that means as well walk through different options of how to work that process together you know with the county attorney's office to be able to bring you something that's reasonably well vetted that can form the start of a program and then you can say yes that makes sense we want to do it or then tweak it so it's almost like this is step one the next step is to come back with a more fully vetted option five with a lot of those sub questions answered then you say yes then you ask more questions we refine it and then bring you back something you can actually move forward on so this is probably going to be step one of a three or four step process for you to actually take action it's not going to be solved in the next quarter or two and so and and so it's it's good to know that but I so then I'm wondering I mean like when of Vista that road is almost become a dirt road with potholes and so I don't want that to stop I um also there is a road in Trinity Oaks that is uh in really really bad shape I in the last big storm drove into a humongous pothole that I'm surprised I could drive out of it um they're I believe they're going through a pvas program um I can't remember the name of the road right now uh so what's going to happen to the ones that are in the process now I don't want it to stop you know I I mean I would suggest that that those that are still in proc the board hasn't changed the program until the board changes the program yes and so I think we continue to work the existing program until the board changes the program and

then we have the one in uh and understand if you're going for number five even if we got it together and got the board to adopt it by this December you wouldn't see it for the follow right we also have to catch a tax cycle so the 2023 fiscal year about the first time the first time you'd be able to see this on a tax bill well I just want to I know I had some that were very concerned they want the P to go away of course I I said just because it's going away doesn't mean something you know something obviously has to be place it um so they they are listening today so um yeah I think we want to you know I hear it all the time especially from people who moved from other places here that they've never heard of the way we do it and I think you've said that yourself and we're an unusual animal in the way that we're doing it and I know there'll be a little transition period but I hope we get we definitely get away from this way Mr 70% of your time is wasted that's that's a sad number Mr chairman yes sir the uh the road bridge fund we've never funded that in past 16 years anyway how was that fund set up what was that designed to do do you know the the transportation ad alarm fund vot on every year it's funded to zero zero what what was that set up for and how was that supposed to work i' have to go back and research it I'm sure Dan doesn't know because I've been here longer and I don't [Laughter] know there's a good answer just being honest that could be that could be something we go back and research it just that's a vehicle that's a vehicle that's in place already that's the way a lot of places it is but you would not exclude those that maintain their own roads if you went that route right CDD yeah HOA cdds anybody maintains their own Road right okay maybe Mr chairman go ahead thank you then maybe the people that are going through their current PS are exempt until they reach to the amount that they would have paid in under the new project well I hate to say this without researching it but but what's coming to mind is what may be able to do and I'm not sure how complicated this would be is you would use the millage collected to fund the payment of their lean so if they've had a p and there's a lean on the books their millage would pay that lean down for them okay and so you wouldn't oh be billing twice there's a way to figure it out we need to go do some research we'll come back we'll come back with some options on that I Branford you kind of got Direction you good I'm good okay yeah I I I appreciate the discussion because we had a lot of questions as we're going through this yeah that we really need needed some I think this been discuss guidance on yeah because of some of the there are some challenges to unwind the existing program M Patrick my last question question sorry um for the tax lean for when someone else when someone's getting

their roads paved cannot follow the home or does it have to follow the home owner property follows the property with the property the benefiting Pro okay understand the question I thought someone said it has the lean has to be paid off before so currently what happens is when you sell your property the title company clears the lean and pays it off that's what currently is the practice because that's what I've heard is oh well if I move in three years and they're paying their taxes over 10 years then they're paying for service that they're not going to ever be able to utilize later on because they're selling their home so then the new homeowner would take over the payments yeah I guess it was changed to milit most what happen it's more a function of what happens a real estate closing and that's I'm not going to buy your house if it has a $5,000 lean on so it comes at a closing we get paid off so it goes is satisfied thank you okay any other question anything else for the good of the whole team so I did hear a survey and the rest of you will we'll get a survey for the county that Mark shared with me earlier it's huge it's it's great what's happening in this County uh customer customer service wise we're we're probably 10% above most counties are governments around us and even at that I'm I'm going to tell you we're not there but we're going there we're going to get to the right place and customer service is what's going to get us there so we got a lot of things happening in the county good things happening so we just got to guide them the right way it's all right with that we jour [Music]