10.21.25 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Meeting (Afternoon Session)

Good afternoon. Welcome to the Florida County Commissioners afternoon session.

Your mic on.

We will uh begin with P63. This afternoon. Oh, sorry. Thank you. P62 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times September 3rd, 2025.

[clears throat]

Thank you, Madam Chair. Victoria Pitos, Planning Development, Economic Growth Department. Item [clears throat] P63 is PTE 260002. This is an ordinance uh amending the land development code for bicycle and pedestrian facilities. Um, this is being requested for a continuence of the November 12, 2025 board of county commissioners meeting in Dade City at 1:30 p.m.

Move to continue time.

Second.

All in favor?

I I

Next 64.

Yep. Uh, Tampa Day Tampa Bay Times August, [clears throat] 2025 for P64.

Go ahead, Terry. It's not loading up. Here we go. Item P64 is PTE 260003. This is an ordinance uh by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the land development code for tree preservation and replacement standards. Uh this is being requested to a for a continuence to the January 6, 2026 board of county commissioners meeting in Dayton City at 1:30 p.m.

Move to continue. certain.

Okay. So, um we did have someone to sign up for P64. It has been

advertised as a continuous, but we do have someone here who wants to speak to it. How do you how should we handle that one?

And I'll speak when it comes to you.

What do you

It's legislative. If the board wants to hear hear comment, they may. It's not this. you're not in the same sort of rules that you are with clause judicial, but the board's general rule has been that if it's advertised as a continuence, they don't take public comment.

Right.

All right. So, um we're have this is going to be moved to January

6.

January 6. So, um so the folks who signed up um sorry uh but we will continue this to January. So, you can come back come back then. Terry, does this has this been to planning commission or is there still a hearing planning

commission? It has gone to planning commission. There have been workshops on it. Uh most recent I believe was back in August, but it is preparing to return come November.

Okay.

So, um if you want to also go to the planning commission in November, you'll have an opportunity to speak there as well.

Okay. So, it has been moved and seconded. All in favor? I

opposed. All right. C65. [clears throat]

Publication Tampa Bay Times September 3rd, 2025 and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings.

Uh item P65 is PD260027. This is an ordinance amending the Pasco County comprehensive plan providing for a small scale comprehensive plan amendment uh to the future land use map from RO to IL um on Stone Road uh just east of US19. This is a request for a continuence to the December 9, 2025 board of county commissioners meeting in Newport Richie at 1:30 p.m.

Move to continue time certain.

Second.

All in favor?

I.

Madam Chair,

yes. Just want to direct Terry, I would like to meet with you and the team on this one here.

Yes, sir.

Um and I want to make one comment on the tree um the tree ordinance and for the people that are here. I I was kind of disappointed that it didn't go ahead and part of our pre um future tree plans didn't make it out of planning commission. As I said in our meeting yesterday, you know, they chose to table some and bring it all together. I say Godspeed on fixing our our issues with trees and so please uh I don't want to see it paused again at the planning commission. It has to has to come to us. No more delays on that one.

Is that understood?

P66 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times September 17 2025 P66.

Good afternoon commissioners. Denise Hernandez with the code compliance department. Item P66. Just to let you know, this is a glitch amendment. Today, we are not I'm not asking for a um for any action from the board, just to please uh take public comment. And um this is the land development code amendment 80. It is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code. Section 530.5, parking or storing of recreational vehicles. Section 530.16 parking and storage of commercial vehicles and commercial equipment in c certain residential areas prohibited and other sections as necessary for internal consistency providing for applicability repealer providing for severability inclusion into land development code and an effective date. Uh again this is land development code amendment 80. These were presented to the horizontal round table and interested parties meeting on September 17, 2025. They did provide comment and we made changes based on the comments that were provided. On October 2nd, 2025, the local planning agency found the proposed amendments consistent with the Pasco County comprehensive P plan. And um going through these amendments um fairly quickly um because these are just glitches um and these are items that came about as a result of a code compliance case. Uh the first change is in se uh chapter 500 zoning section 530 530.5 parking and storing of recreational vehicles. We just wanted to make it absolutely abundantly clear that parking and storing of recreational vehicles is are not allowed over the ride of way in any zoning district. Previously I just called out that there were certain zoning districts where it was prohibited in that was clearly a a glitch. It should be that it's not allowed in any right of way of any zoning district within Pasco County. The following uh portion is 530.6 parking uh and storage of recreational vehicles and parking and storage storage of commercial vehicles sorry and commercial equipment in residential areas. Uh that was also a glitch. We wanted to make sure that MPUD master plan unit development district was in there. PUD plan unit development district was in there but not MPUD. That should have always been in there. um also include the p the county owned right ofway. And then um this is one of the concerns that the horizontal round table had that it might prohibit um the uh usage of com that stating that uh someone is not in compliance if they're parking a commercial vehicle in a commercially um zoned portion of an MPD. And we wanted to make it clear that that's not a violation, that that's okay. So those are the changes that we're making. Again, today we're not asking for any um um action from you. Just please accept public comment and um this is set for adoption on November 12, 2025 at 1:30 p.m. in Date City. And I'm here for any questions that you may have.

Well, I this is another Godspeed on this because we're fixing some big problems that are happening. If you if you ever drive on rangeand in Starky Ranch, um people are parking their commercial trucks and boats and all their work vehicles on our roads. Um they've got campers. They're you they're using our parking spaces uh instead of putting them in in storage places. So, um,

yeah, and and as Commissioner Starky stated, and I do want to mention, I do want to thank, uh, both Sam Bounty and Elizabeth Blair uh, for their assistant with assistance with this. It's been very they've been very helpful.

We speak,

huh?

No one's signed.

No one signed it.

And there's no action. Can I just ask a question?

You need to take

Yeah, we'll take public. Yeah. Go ahead. Say a question. Okay. So, if someone, let's say they work for Stanley Steamer and that's their work vehicle, are they allowed to park it in their driveway?

No. No, that's parking a commercial vehicle in a residential district. Gotcha.

Um

I think it I think it depends on what it what it they can park it while they're doing business. So like for example, let's say they're cleaning the carpet or doing some type of cleaning in that location. They can park it while they're doing that, but not park it overnight. So some people that are just struggling getting on their feet and they they work for a company. They'll give them a company truck to use just as transportation to get to and from work and stuff like that. So in that instance, they're not servicing their home, but they're using that as transportation to get to work.

They could park it inside the garage somewhere where it's not visible.

Um it but the just to just to clarify, the code is not changing that. It's always been that way. So it's not

we're not modifying it to make it that way. So, they can't park their work vehicle in the driveway.

Never have been able to. That's correct.

In like both the whole state. Um um what was I just going to say? Um we have people parking semitrs. Uh Mr. Carbal and I were driving around. They're parking semitrs in our parking spaces. So, um in in front of um our blueberry farm that's, you know, being um developed, we have three um right now we have three storage trailers that the kind you hook behind your truck to move or you know, but and they say advertise here and they've been there for months sitting in our parking spaces. Um I say they're abandoned and we should tow them, but um okay. So, is there anyone else here who would like to speak to this ordinance today?

All right. Thank you very much.

Okay. P67.

So, just

just for the record, this is the this is the this is your first public hearing. The second public hearing will be held on November 12th

in city,

2025 at 1:30 in Tate City.

Yes.

P67. Proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times, September 3rd.

Oh, I'm sorry. One second. Did you get my video? Um, can I show you something real quick? Sorry, one second, Denise. I want I want you to look at this video. Um, and this is this is a house in my district and um they are metal scrappers. I've shown you videos of this house before. I h I have a problem with this kind of what this does to a neighborhood. These trucks never move. They store their their metal there. You know, this house. Um but how is that is that commissioners? We you know we we don't have an any rules here against multiple vehicles in the yard, but I don't think this is good for our community to have have people I I don't know who would want to live next door to this. Commissioner Stark, can you send me the information? We'll look into it. I mean, the these there's a couple of violations I already see there just by looking at the site.

But these trucks are always there. Are they registered cars can you park in I have no idea.

Yeah, we'll have to look at that. We'll look into that.

But legally, we can't even go behind there, right? And see if they have um

um there is a concept in chapter 162 Florida statutes uh regarding curdilage and we'll we can take a look at that.

Okay. Well, I feel so bad for this neighborhood. Okay. Thank you. Okay, next.

Yeah, P6. Proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times, September 3rd, 2025.

Good afternoon, commissioners. Amanda Hill, Planet Development, Economic Growth. Item P67 is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code, creating section 530.25, 25 backyard chickens and other sections as necessary for internal consistency, providing for applicability, repealer, providing for severability, inclusion into the land development code, and an effective date. The intent of this ordinance is to allow for backyard chickens within residential properties for the purpose of egg production. This ordinance does not seek to add any provisions or restrictions for the keeping of chickens on estate residential or agricultural zoning districts. Standards related to the keeping of chickens will be detailed in chapter 14 of the Pasco County Code of Ordinances. This will be brought to the board for consideration at the November 12th public hearing in Date City. The proposed provisions in section 530.25 25 or quite short and include the prohibition of the keeping of chickens in multif family zoning districts. Additionally, the setback shall be the required setbacks of the nearest zoning district where minimum lot area with depth and setback regulations can be met. For non-conforming use for a dwelling unit on a commercially zoned prop parcel, the parcel shall be considered a residential district. And finally, the provisions of the proposed section will not supersede any covenant or restriction of record. This is the first public hearing of the proposed land development code amendments. The adoption hearing of the proposed land development code amendments will be on November 12th, 2025 at 1:30 p.m. in Dade City. So on November 12th, you would have two items before you, both the adoption hearing for the land development code amendment and then the chapter 14 code of ordinances amendment. And I did include here a comparison of some of I'm sorry, can you go way? Thanks. There you go. Um, a comparison of some of the research that we did in preparing the standards especially for chapter 14. So for the communities that we looked at in general they allowed between four to six uh chickens hens only. Uh most of them they don't require permits. I believe there were two Hernando and city of Brandon that required permits in some capacity. Uh they all um restrict the chickens to residential zoning districts and the square footage allowed for the birds range some as little as two square feet, some four feet. Um, and in terms of the overall size of the coupe, that also ranges as well. And I have the language here for chapter 500 530.25. And if you have any questions, I'm here to answer.

Yes.

Did did we amend when we reviewed this Amanda last time, did we amend some of these rules that makes it rather cumbersome to get the half chickens? I If it's

they have to take a class.

I disagree with

that's I mean that's in their rule

everything. Well, I won't support it as is them. But I mean we we make it we're going to make this so cumbersome for folks to have backyard chicken. It's so bureaucratic permit and everything else. It's like people want chickens and they have the appropriate zone. Let them have the chickens.

You you don't have to do all that to go adopt an animal from the animal shelter and this is to feed your family. So I just,

you know,

I appreciate the work. I just disagree with the how bureaucratic this ordinance is.

Well,

Commissioner, I kind of agree and I just doesn't even really have a class. So what if we

they're going to have to pay?

But I think they should have some knowledge. What if we just make them what? What if they have to sign on to anformational page?

Can I add some clarity?

This solves this solves a lot of the issues we've had. Oh, yeah. With chickens.

Yeah. Well, you know, could have them, some people couldn't, and they're they're out in a rural area and they should be allowed to have them.

For them to get a permit to have them, it makes sure they're responsible owners of those chickens. They can't have roosters. There's other things, geese, quail, any game managers they can't have. But this corrects a lot of that that we've had, you know,

and allows some people to have them that couldn't have them before. Yeah. So, I mean, we won't require permits for other animals in this county, too. Cats, dogs, whatever. I mean,

yeah, they have.

So, a previous version, a previous draft of this did require a permit. We did look into that, uh, Commissioner Weightman, and like I mentioned the chart that I had previously.

Yeah, go back to that one.

Um, most of those communities, they did not require a permit. And between looking at that research in terms of the feasibility of implementing that permit, getting it off the ground, as well as the cost, and then even in terms of how many people are coming in for permits, uh the ordinance drafting team decided to remove that requirement for a permit in the draft that's going to be coming forward to you for consideration in November.

And another point to this, okay,

code enforcement's already stretched too thin. You really don't want them to be policing chicken coops, too.

I mean,

well, they're having to now. I mean,

I don't

either. I think we need to simplify this. That's all.

Okay. So, you're you're simplifying it for the next reading. That's what I heard. Yes,

I'm I'm okay with that.

You guys over there?

Yeah, I'm for no permit as well.

Okay. Um, does anyone here wants to speak to the chicken?

Talia Brookfield.

Talia, come on up and talk to us about chickens. 14 years to get to this day. [laughter] And you have to introduce your two little kids.

Okay. I'm Talia Burkefeld. I live at 2617 Baltic Place. Thank you for repaving the road.

Oh, awesome.

Just we've all talked about it for like three or four weeks now how awesome it is. This is Sailor Burkefeld and Sage Burkefeld.

Oh, right.

We currently own six chickens. We have done extensive research on how to care for said chickens. We have built our own coupe with our bare hands. My husband built roosting boxes or no rooster and whatever they call the boxes. Um we clean the coupe once a week. We feed we water our chickens and more importantly it's taught the girls responsibility.

Absolutely.

Um where your food comes from because we have a garden as well. Um nobody complained uh just this guy that lived. We found out I'm a I'm Italian so I do a little investigating and I found out and I drove by his yard and much like the yard you showed on TV, his yard was like that. So maybe you can go by there a little bit. That's a little pot calling the kettle black.

Um the the main complaint was that it attracts rats. My family's been in Florida for a hundred years. We've lived uh in Tampa mostly. My grandfather helped construct Eore City and was big in the Italian club. So, you know about chickens?

I know a lot about chickens and I know a lot about rats because I'm a Florida native. And if you live in Florida and you think your backyard is not going to be uh have a rat in it or one come into your yard from rain, then maybe you should buy an apartment because that's the beauty of home ownership. You can take care of your house. But the girls, we love the chickens. We have taken care of four of them since they were chicks. They yield us. Sometimes I have two chickens that are laying and sometimes I get four eggs in a span of 24 hours. So I'd say my chickens are relatively happy. Um we've only had one problem with mites and we took care of it right away. Uh I think if you are going to look at buying chickens, doing the appropriate research is key. I gave myself about six months to prepare and make sure it was a chore that I could handle. Um and we pay taxes. We own our homes. A lot of the homes in my area are rentals. Um, so, you know, we've paid taxes 10 years now I've been in this area. I love Pasco County and I just want to keep my chickens. That's it. We're very excited being a part of this process. Um, so,

how did you find out about the chicken ordinance?

I wrote an email because I got a code enforcement visit from a really lovely gentleman. He was really great. He was awesome. We were talk. He was even uh intrigued by one of my breeds because I have ones that has feathers on the feet and just you know you get into it a little bit. It's a hobby. Um and he came by code enforcement did I'm not going to sit here and lie. So then I wrote an email and they told me about the meeting and I said well I'm going to go.

Well that's so I have a I have a question but it's for the girls.

So what is your favorite part about taking care of the chickens? My favorite part about this is that I love how um how you get this bond with them.

We bond with them. [laughter]

And what about Sailor? What's your favorite?

Putting them putting them to bed.

Putting them away.

And do you guys get to collect the eggs? [laughter]

I mean, we built a giant pen. It's in We moved it from by the fence when code enforcement came out because, you know, we don't we want to be considerate. Yeah. So, we built a pen. We have boxes and uh we have rainbow eggs because we have a chicken that lays blue eggs, one that lays greens.

So, do you notice a difference?

I live at 2617. In a couple months, I'll be swimming in eggs. Please stop by and grab

I have one more question for the girls.

Sure.

Do you guys notice a difference when you crack an egg from the store and crack one of your own eggs? The difference in the color?

Yes.

Well, we haven't had to buy eggs for four or five months now.

That's awesome. So, we've kind of um gotten a little bit more sustainability that way for ourselves. And

a question.

Do you have a question

or a comment?

Yeah.

A barred rock chicken.

Okay. Well, we might take a visit to your go see your chickens.

You can come over anytime. [laughter]

Thank you.

They would probably show it. Thank you.

No eggs for us. Well, no. I I had to make some devild eggs because it was getting overwhelming. So now I'm back. I have a dozen in the fridge, but I was at like I think the other day I was at like 36 eggs. I had more eggs than I knew what to do with, so I had to bake and get rid of them, you know.

Yeah. That's awesome. Well, thank you for coming today.

Thank you.

Say bye.

Bye.

That was awesome.

And we're going to make those little ones pull a permit for this.

I think they [clears throat] have to give up an I think they have to get rid of a ticket, too. How many do we allow? Four. Okay. One of them's ready for, you know, the other.

Okay. Friday. [laughter]

Okay. Um, well, I'm vote on this today and then

No, it's justformational.

Yes.

All right.

13 city, right?

Dade city. Correct.

It's at the county court uh county the old county court

historic courthouse.

Thank you.

All right.

Bye. Please bring them back.

I wanted my granddaughter to be named sailor, but I had no say. So, [laughter] [gasps]

okay. Um P68. Oh, wait. We don't need a motion, right?

No, you don't need a motion. It's

But I adoption confident that we're going to get a chicken or

development code amendments will be heard on November 12th.

Okay.

2025 1:30 in Dade City.

P68, proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times. October 5th, 2025.

Good afternoon, commissioners. I don't know how I follow that. [laughter]

You can dance up there.

Yeah, respectfully request Sailor to come back.

Um, I have a presentation. This is um for you all to vote on um to take public comment for the uh redistricting of um

this isn't a zoning

of the mosquito control district. So, I have a presentation if you'd like to see it.

Nope. Does anyone do you guys need to see it? The mosquitoes annoy the chickens. [laughter]

Commissioner Oakley, do you care to see does it the mosquito?

No, I've had it. Okay,

I'm good.

Um, this is Well, you want to say what you're doing?

Yes. Well, we're taking any public comment today on the maps that you all voted on.

You need to describe what the agenda item is. This is a resolution by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners establishing geographical subdists for the Pasco County Mosquito Control District pursuant to chapter 2025242 laws of Florida providing for district designations, population distribution, publication, and an effective date.

Okay. Um, is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this item?

Jonas, do you want to speak to this? I see you're still sitting here today. [laughter] Okay.

Swear people in as public hearings.

This one does not need to be

after. Okay.

All right. On line,

huh? No, we have no one online, right? No, no one on

approval. Second.

All in favor?

I.

Thank you. This one.

Okay. All right. P69. And are we No, we don't have to on this one either, right? vacate a vacation of an easement.

You might as well just

go for it. Okay.

Do it at this point.

Go ahead and do do your thing.

There are two reasoning agendas regular consent. Staff will present each application to the board of county commissioners. Staff or planning commission if staff or planning commission has recommended approval and there is no opposition, the application will be considered by the board without further presentation. If staff or planning commission has recommended denial or if there is opposition, the application will if there or if there is opposition to the application, the applicant will be given five minutes for presentation. The opposition will be given three minutes for each individual or five minutes for a group representative and the applicant will be given three minutes for rebuttal. Any individual disagreeing with staff from planning commission recommendation or anyone wishing to object to any condition of the resoning may at this time request the petition be pulled from the consent agenda in which case that application will be heard under the regular agenda later on during the meeting. Otherwise, all resoning applications on the consent agenda will be approved by a single motion and vote. If you wish to speak to any petition, please your give your name and address and whether or not you've been sworn for the record. These are quasi judicial public hearings. The law in Florida is that mere public support or opposition of an application is insufficient for this board to take action. Please limit your comments to those criteria found within the board's land development code. Uh madame clerk, would you like to swear the public in?

Yes. Thank you. Anyone speaking, please raise your right hand. Thank you. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is truth is the truth. So help you God.

I do.

Thank you.

So P69, proof of publication, Tampa Bay Times, September 21st, 2025 and September 28th, 2025.

Good afternoon, commissioners. Lori Joe Bryant, real property division. The real property team has received a petition to vacate a portion of a platted drainage and utility easement filed by Thomas Gazelle. The purpose for this vacation is to allow an installation of a pool and a surrounding deck. There were no objections to this petition and the team recommends approval. All right. Any other any questions for the applicant? Um, is there anyone here who wishes to speak to this item against this item?

No, this is not consent. It's either way, but

Okay. I just want to know if anyone's objecting to Right. Okay. Well, I'll take a motion then.

Move approval.

Second.

All in favor? I I

Thank you. Okay, next one. 70 proof of publication Tampa Bay Times March 3rd, 2025 and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. [cough]

We have multiple people signed up. Good afternoon. William Vermillion, Planning, Development, Economic Growth. Before I get started today, there were some exppartate communications for this project that were sent to the clerk's office. This is PTE 267781 Enclave at Livingston Master Planned Unit development by Academy of the Lakes. This is a resoning request from AR agricultural residential to MPD master plan unit development for the maximum development of 178 town home dwelling units on 46 acres with the current future land use of residential 66 dwelling units an acre. This project is coming in roughly at 3.8 dwelling units an acre well below the future land use. This is 0.25 25 miles north of State Road 54, directly west of 20 mile level road and 1,000 ft east of the Collier Parkway and 1500 ft northeast of the school academy of the Lakes. Here's a rough location map showing this project in the South Market area. Here is a contextual map of the MPD. You can see in the light blue shaded area the subject side of the MPD outlined in red. Running north to south on this screen is the Livingston Avenue extension. You can see the school in the black and blue shaded area as well as Tabella Mud that currently exists. And just to the south there are some existing platted town homes. And just for some future context of the overall development, uh, Terraella had 730 total dwelling units as well as some non-residential uses, medical office and shopping center. Location map, the current zoning district reflecting AR, the future land use map showing residential six. This is the overall impunity master plan highlighting the amount of wetlands on site which is why the applicant decided to call this enclave to effectively an enclave tucked away behind these wetlands. And here uh more illustratively is the binding concept plan. Here you can see the extension of Livingston Avenue running north to south with the eight eight foot wide sidewalk being built within it and then taken into this project via their access way. As you head north, the red units there are rear loaded town homes that front along that central boulevard and then along the outskirts the front-loaded town homes providing a meaningful connection both to the north and to the west as well as the meaningful connection to Livingston Avenue which takes you south to 54. Here is the roadway exhibit of the Livingston Avenue extension, which is exhibit two in your agenda packet, showing uh the applicant carrying this roadway from State Road 54 up to their project access, as well as leaving the current alignment of 20 mile level road as it exists there. [cough] This is the crosssection of Livingston Avenue, which um the ultimate buildout of course you have four 11oot travel lanes, two per side

with the median and the 8 foot sidewalk and the 12oot sidewalk they are showing as the second phase of the roadway. So, [clears throat] a little bit of background for all the commissioners that tune in to planning commission or don't tune into planning commission. Uh, in any event, when this project first came forward, there was some questions about the traffic analysis, the the timing and phasing study. So, uh, there was a prolonged continuence until the time that the timing and phasing was redone by the applicant and submitted to staff for review prior to, uh, its eventual recommendation of approval at planning commission. And a couple things happened subsequent uh, as it relate as it related to the update timing updated timing and phasing. So, the the first thing that the applicant did was use the 2050 long range transportation plan. Uh the previous study because the project had been submitted some time ago relied on the 2045 long range transportation plan and uh in in the intermediate time of being submitted and finally making it to public hearings, the board had already adopted the 2050 LRTP. So, the applicant was kind enough to go back and use the data from the newly adopted 2050 LRTP, in which case this found um some cost feasible sections that were funded um within the vicinity as highlighted here and some illustrative vision improvements out to 2050 as it related to State Road 54 and Collier Parkway. [snorts] Um, this project also is providing the rightway for the future extension of Livingston Avenue North along its project boundary for the uh the overall extension as a parallel reliever to Collier Parkway. This um and I believe the the big sticking point here was uh originally and currently State Road 54 exceeded the volume capacity ratio of 1.0 established by the land development code. But this project was was no uh in no ways bound by the code to to mitigate for a road that had already been failing, of course. But but what they decided to do and work with staff was to create improvements at the intersection of Livingston Road and State Road 54, which included a leftbound, a left turn lane, a shared through and right turn lane, and a right turn lane. What that did was increase the max VC ratio for that intersection by roughly 80%. Which is fairly significant. And and when I say it increased the max ratio for that, that is of the the worst movement that happens at that intersection. It decreased the time thereby decreasing the BC ratio of that intersection.

I have a question. Can I ask?

Sure. So that road's already in failure, right? That road in question,

uh, State Road 54,

but

not not Livingston,

right? So, but when they when they make the improvements, what how does that help?

So, it does um,

you have a map of that or no?

Uh, there's I mean, I have a map of the road. I don't have a map on the slide of the project distribution and the VC ratio tables. They're included in the agenda packet, but essentially what it did was the intersection of Livingston and State Road 54. By doing these improvements, they essentially increased the capacity of the queueing for that intersection, alleviating some of the stresses of the longest turning motion. So while they couldn't fully alleviate for the VC ratio on 54, no no project would be able to alleviate the current volume capacity ratios of 54. What they did was ameliorate for their direct intersection improvements that will in turn help uh the entire area as a whole in terms of traffic. So, with the traffic study,

the traffic engineer is going to have the geometry intersection. Oh, the slide. Cool.

Mr. Engle just told me that uh in the applicant's presentation, they'll have some geometries up for you. I just don't have it in my staff slide. And uh Mr. Steve Henry can probably explain uh this a little bit better than I, but I did my best.

You did great.

I appreciate it. I appreciate it. With with all that being said, we added some um conditions as well about construction access on 20 Mile Level Road and Livingston Avenue because that was some of the concerns from the public um at the planning commission. So, we added some some conditions of approval that that specified construction access at the time for the residents. There's one variation which is to not require a stub out to the south. Like I mentioned before, there's that existing platted town home neighborhood and any north south motion from this neighborhood can be done on Livingston Avenue which is that extension road they're building. With all of that being said, this comes with a recommendation of approval from planning development economic growth as well as the planning commission. I'm available for any questions. Madam Chair.

Yeah.

So on the cons on the access um the condition on condition 25 it says the applicant shall stabilize Livingston Road and use the extension for construction access.

Be careful. 20 20 mile level road should only be used to construct utility improvements and mobilize equipment to stabilize Livingston Road extension. Why wouldn't you have all the construction traffic on the 20 mile road instead of the uh Livingston Road where other residents are living there right now?

It's uh it's my interpretation of that condition. What it's what it's stating is in order for them to build Livingston Avenue, they have to use 20 mile level road to construct Livingston Avenue. at which point they construct it, they wouldn't be using 20 mile level road anymore. But they do need

um a road to access the construction. All right. So, if I'm going to have all this construction traffic that's on these homes that are existing there right now, why wouldn't I want them to use uh 20 mile level road for their construction? Let me make sure let me make sure I'm following your your question correctly. I can feel

the road the roads coming in.

You know Livingston Road, you got 20 mile road. Why wouldn't you have all the all their construction traffic using 20 mile road getting up there as opposed to Livingston?

And I don't believe that road's paved. Is it 20 mile road?

May I? Barbara Willil Height, 6327 Grand Boulevard. 20 mile level road is the existing road. It's not paved. The residents at the neighborhood meeting on uh May 12th asked me a lot of questions sometimes are not great questions and but this was a great question. They said, "What are you going to do for construction access? Are you going to use 20-mile level road? Are we going to have to deal with your construction traffic?" And so I worked with my team. We are not going to use 20 mile level road, which is the road those residents currently use. The condition says we have to use um our road that we're extending what's really your vision road. We're extending Livingston Road, Livingston Avenue extension from where it currently um is the end of it up to access our project. So we are building part of your vision road to access our project. So that's what the condition is saying. Hey, construction traffic, use that new road that you're that you're doing, which is part your vision road. Stay off of 20 mile level road. Two exceptions. One is there will be utility improvements. The county already has a utility line within 20 mile level road. So, there's some utility improvements. And the second exception is we have to get the trucks up to the area where we're going to stabilize in order to bring our construction access up the new road. So, it's absolutely written to keep construction traffic off of the where the residents drive every day.

All right, let me ask another question. It says on the next condition 13.

Well, is she gonna do we want her to do her presentation?

Yes.

Yeah, I think so.

Well, I got I was asking staff a question. I didn't ask her. I staff a question.

Okay, Barbara, we'll get back to you.

Let the commissioners ask their staff questions.

Okay.

Okay. Go ahead, Ch.

All right. So, condition 13. You got to modify the northbound approach lanes of intersection 54 and Livingston to provide the following improvements you talked about, but you're not doing it until prior to the issuance of the building permit for the 90th dwelling unit. Why aren't we doing these improvements immediately?

Sure. And so that that was negotiated with staff and essentially it came down to the the traffic numbers being um permissible below the 90th uh unit threshold. Didn't you say the road's already failing?

State road 54. Okay. So, I'm talking these are the improvements we're talking about, right?

Intersection improvements.

So, if I'm going to do improvements on 54, I got a road that's failing already.

Why am I going to put all this construction traffic at the start? Now, I'm going to bring all these 90 new residents coming in and now I'm going to go improve the roadway. This intersection should be improved before anything gets started out there.

And I believe 20 Mile Road is failing, isn't it? No, ma'am. 20 mile level road will be well within its capacity,

but it's half dirt and half paved, right?

It it will be paved up to the project entrance. Correct. The the remaining northbound will be dirt, but it wouldn't be failing from a capacity standpoint. It would be that'd be more of a substandard road question.

So, we're going to put homes on a substandard road possibly. It's substandard road to the north, but not once they improve.

I don't know how the board feels about that 90th unit before that intersection being done, but

I agree.

Well, let's listen to the applicant's presentation and then we can ask these questions. Do you guys have any questions?

I've got one. I've got one more.

Okay, sure. So from what I understand, staff, our own county staff was actually looking at flooding concerns out there bit to the north where the water flows. There's like one culvert there can't take it all. Staff is actually looking at it right now from what I understand looking at the engineering. Will the improvements or what improvements need to be made to keep these people from flooding? What what's your knowledge of that?

That is a that's a great question and I can let our storm water team or Mr. Couch speak to that. I know that they both went out on site to look at the the culvert you're talking about. Um to my knowledge, there was uh the property in which the the culvert is located, the gentleman that owns that property wasn't willing to have modifications done to the culvert that's exacerbating the issues out there currently.

Oh, could you pull up the mountain map for us? So, I believe that uh Mr. Couch was on record at planning commission saying that he was he was more than willing to help with the storm water specifically in that location, but he reached some uh private constraints.

All right. So, from our staff, you mentioned our storm water team. Who from our storm water team here can talk to? I guess I'm putting on my storm water hat. That was that was a joke. Um there there should be storm water at a minimum. Is there anybody online from storm water?

We got map pages.

Yeah. Can we can we look at the mil uh the Milton map, please?

Sure. While we wait for that, what what I've heard talking to storm water team is they're looking to see what it's going to take. The water flows up that way. It's an issue. One culate may not be enough. It may need three. They're studying it right now. I was actually very surprised to see this coming forward knowing that study is going on. It's very similar to me to the Little Road Jasmine project where we got flooding issues that are there known staff's looking at it now because the developer didn't do it. Uh it's delayed that project for all six months as we're now finding out that they got to figure it out. What I don't want to see is us to go approve a project that could be flooding people upstream or downstream let's say uh from this project

until we know at least what the situation is. So here here's a situation now Stein this is where county attorney's office is involved. There's a resident north of here that has it's a this is a latigious issue that has um narrowed the flow of water into Cypress Creek. And prior to the storms and during the storms, what what this homeowner has done has negatively impacted many residents downstream, backing water up on them and almost into their barns because of their modifications. what this one resident has done and the county has offered to fix this at no cost if they sign and same with the water management district if they sign in and act allow allow the swift mud andor the county to fix it on the taxpayer dime that homeowner from what I understand won't allow it what this homeowner has done irregardless of this project has impacted the flow of water into Cypress Creek and had a negative impact on neighboring properties and it backs up the water into the basin that the the towns or the I've had a map where the all the water flows in to the to the pond. This one particular property needs to be fixed and the county attorney's office uh I know was trying to work through a remedy on this but I don't know how far they've gotten.

Swift involved because they

I'll let the county attorney's office speak. to the intimacies because I don't want because of its ongoing nature I don't want to want to miss misspeak on this because it [clears throat] needs to be irregardless of this project this has to be fixed.

Yeah.

What this what this homeowner is doing is wrong.

So if that's that's the case I that's a issue that needs to be dealt with whether whether it's we got to study it first to figure what the solution is propose it to them to to resolve it. Frankly I

Yeah. So, so frankly to go allow a development to come in knowing you've got a flooding issue right next door and I mean I'll tell you from 2004 every every single hearing we had coming forward I had them pulling up the flood maps. I was showing the flood maps all the time just so we could see what was going on in the area. This is very similar to that to me that if you got people flooding in an area now and you're going to go make uh have a development come in and make it worse, it doesn't make sense. It's not fair to those other people. Not the one guy, but the other people. You're going to make it worse for them. Why would I do that? I would want to get this thing

sure I'm not so sure it's going to make it worse. I'm not so sure this project's going to make it worse.

If you have more impervious surface, the water's going to go somewhere, it's going to increase the flow.

Well, it depends. If they do storm water pumps, um, yeah, Barbara, hang on a second. I know you want to speak. Um, so what are you are you pulling up some GIS or what what are you guys working on? Um, okay. Is that going to take long?

Not.

And in the meantime, did we find anyone from storm water to get on the line?

I don't know which aa is. We're missing an aa. Yes,

we're missing that. Aa, where is it? Where is that? Where is Branford? Where's Brford today?

I think Mike's finding out.

He's what?

I think

finding out.

Oh. Why you pay vision road should you be put put on storm water

the mountain map

everything's clicked on this map

PTO was playing towing growth the vision road just because the map is a little dark we just added the vision road map for contextual purposes to Orient. Um, but this is the the Milton aerials. I think they were taken 48 hours after the storm. Uh, usually darker areas uh are indicating uh locations of flooding.

And where's the parcel here?

The arrow is or well

is this going to work? Oops.

Mean the whole area

parcel should be in this zone right here. So the whole area is flooded.

Where's the parcel you were speaking of, Commissioner Waitman?

So So is the whole area flooded by this map? Is that what you're telling me?

Um,

this is just an aerial image. I would rely on the site engineer to report on

what kind of storm water flooding actually existed on the site post Milton. walking at all.

Did you Did you say earlier the darker it is, the more flooding?

Usually, but the the image is hard to to read. So, we want to make sure that this the engineer can speak to it specifically. I

was going to say is there a different I was going to say if I look at Livingston Road and look to the right where the development is, it's actually drier over by the development compared to here. Is that pretty much how you're showing darkness is where it's flooded and the lightest side is not where it's not? That's generally how the the aerial is indicating, but the uh the imagery is kind of dark, so you have to go to the facts on the ground, which is why I would rely on the engineer to report on it.

All right, while we wait for the engineer, why don't we click on observe flooding? See what that shows.

Not there. And Seth, where's the where's the gentleman's house you were talking about?

We need a clearer map.

Well, I think when Barbara does a presentation, we'll see some of those maps.

I can too.

So, in between where it says Coyo Parkland, there's a there's a pond there and the and the water flows from the community to the right.

Bella something. Yeah, that pond right there. So it flows. That's the extension. So it it backs up. I don't have the exact address. So you neighborhood, the water flows, it comes out of the community that's over here to the right, and it dumps into this pond waterway here, then works its way out. And then and you can see kind of the creek line

behind the school.

Behind No, it's too

by the park.

I need a pointer.

I said why don't you get up there?

Yeah, why don't you go up there? And

why didn't professional staff do this?

Because we don't have anybody here. I don't understand it. Where's Araka? Madam Chairman, I I would recommend that you table table this discussion,

go to the applicant, have their presentation, and then

because they may have these maps.

Yeah.

And explain things.

So, all right, you guys good? We're gonna You can ask more questions. I thought we had

maybe we'll get some storm water, but we'll let Barbara make.

I thought we had VIP laser pointers up here like like [laughter]

Yeah, but that TV's angled. So, all right, let's let's hear the presentation. Maybe we'll get some of these questions in.

Barbara will height 6327 Grand Boulevard. I have a presentation or I can we can work on

just addressing your questions. I'm happy to do either way. Um but I would do you want to hear the presentation or we want Jar because Jar I can tell you that

some some of the things

with regard to drainage let me just and then we can go through if we want to go through this or not but with regard to drainage we didn't we didn't come here today and oh my goodness there's a drainage concern out here we started a long time ago

um and Jeremy can go through all of the facts he knows it very well he did survey work on his own dime um to figure out the problem um and to research it all because all that goes into the permitting that he's done on the site So, I think Jeremy will be able to go through drainage and walk you all through. He's got all the maps. He was out out there after Milton. Um, I think you'll find that interesting. We talked about construction traffic timing of the intersection improvements. I worked with my team. Instead of the 90th unit, we can we can agree to prior to final building inspection for the first residential unit. Um, we can certainly move that up if if that's the the pleasure of the board. But, let me run through this real quick. Uh we started this our first public hearing was in March of of this year, seven months ago when we saw we had neighbors, a bunch of neighbors that had concerns. We immediately continued it. Didn't have that hearing. And then we had a neighborhood meeting on May 12th and we went to planning commission on May 15th. We had a first hearing. There were still things that planning commission wanted us to look at and address. And we did that went back to planning commission on September 18th. So none of this has been rushed. None of this has been pushed. this has been handled methodically and really making sure that we've looked at the issues. We've listened to our neighbors um listened to staff. So this is the land use. We sit in res six in a sea of res six. This isn't rural. This is this is suburban um density. We have res 9 next to us. That's the church, the Catholic church. The staff showed our our binding plan. These are this is our product. We have front road load and rear load. You've been asking clients to do rear load. This client has bringing forth front load and rear load 25 24T units which are wider units. You can see the density allowed under the RES 6 is uh 215 and our density is 178. So we're less than what the land use allows. Project compatibility. what's around us along 20 mile over road within Terabella. When you drive down 20-mile road and you can see that's that picture is from 20 mile over road that's village of Tabella. That's a three-story 311 unit apartment complex 14 buildings 16.37 units per acre has been found compatible along 20 mile of a road. Moving on. When you drive, actually before you get to the apartments, should I should have this in reverse order. If you're driving along 20 mile level road, before you get to the apartments, you get to Keystone Place at Tabella. That is a four-story pro project with 140 apartments consisting of independent, 62 appendent, independent, 56 assisted living, and 22 memory care. Four stories. To our south is Huntington Ridge town homes and I know they are represented here today. Um that's 90 units and that's five units per acre platted town homes similar to ours.

Our density is um on a on a developable acre 5.32. So very similar density to what you see to the south as been mentioned by staff and which I discussed. I came up and kind of supplemented the conversation you had with your staff about construction access. This was a condition that was resulted from the neighborhood meeting and a very good question from one of the neighbors at planning commission. We had a neighbor from Huntington Ridge and they are here today asking about what the buffering was going to be between our town homes and Huntington Ridge town homes. The code requires no buffer, but listen to the neighbor and proposed a buffer. It's on our binding plan. It's a 10-ft buffer, six uh foot vinyl fence. A lot of times your buffers don't require a fence. It's an optional thing because you can have plantings or a fence. We committed to a fence and type D plant type B plantings. As you've heard about transportation from staff, there is an existing level of service efficiency at that intersection of 54 and Livingston. Our contribution to that intersection is very small. We would increase the um any delay at that intersection by seconds. And importantly, the land development code says your land development code, your rules for development of property in Pasco is that this project is not responsible for reducing or eliminating the defic the existing deficiencies. So it could have just come here and said it's 3.6 seconds code says we're not responsible for existing deficiencies, but we didn't do that. We stopped in May and four months we worked on what can we do as a mitigation project with your staff with FDOT. Four months we worked on what can we do to make that that intersection better and and u mitigate any impact we'd have on that intersection. So that is what we end up doing. We end up doing a four different things to mitigate transportation impact. One is we are extending your vision road where it ends today at the um memory care independent apartments that project up to our project as access. We're providing the right away for the further extension of your vision road. We are doing the intersection improvement which I just discussed the timing of and changing the timing of of what we agreed with staff. Number three is the intersection improvement. I have Steve Henry here. I have our drainage folks here, our project engineer who do much better job. Um, but we also pay mobility fees and you can see the tally on the amount of impact fees and mobility fees this project will um will pay. With that, I'm happy to bring up and talk drainage and any traffic questions now or do you want to hear from public comment and then we can do that in rebuttal? Happy to do whatever helps you all get your questions answered.

Say keep

I say keep presenting.

Excuse me.

Keep presenting the stom transportation.

Okay, keep presenting.

Okay, great. Um Jeremy Jeremy Couch, Tampa Civil.

Commissioners, Jeremy Couch with Tampa Civil. I have been sworn. Um [clears throat] so Tampa Civil has been engaged and working on this project for almost two years. Um very early on we identified that downstream there may be issues. Um, our property is up on a hill compared to the surrounding properties. Uh, our property is up near elevation 80 and the issues um downstream are in the elevation 50s. Um, I can explain to you from the start where the issues are or what we're doing to help mitigate the issues. Where would you like me to start? where the issues are. Great. Someone have an Elmo that I can hand you documents. go back and forth because there's I don't think there's a mic I can have in New Y for context. Um I placed a star on where our property is. You can see the wetlands to the southeast of the star. Uh 20 mile level road is the dirt road that goes up the middle. Um, water generally goes east and north. If you see on the northeast side of the screen, that is

I could just point as you go home, but it's your show. [laughter]

Yeah. Uh, in the northeast corner that is actually Cypress Creek. That's Interstate 75 for drainage.

Oh, that's I didn't know

that northern northeastern corner. Northwestern corner.

Northeast.

It goes like this.

Okay.

On your map,

right through that orange grove right there.

Here we go.

This aerial is from 1957. This is our site here. You can see historically it was a grove wetland's low. You can see 20 mile level over here. Unfortunately, um where there are homes now, this used to be a large wetland. There was a creek that went this way and drained the area into Cypress Creek. Sometime around 1967 they decided to make land. Um this is really common in this area. There was a lot of groves built. Um they dredged and filled and um you could see that the drainage was still good. It was still open but the wetland got filled. By 95 um there were a lot of homes, oneacre lots, twoacre lots, homes had been settled. So historically the issues that occur here have happened from the past. Let me kind of show you a little bit more about what has exacerbated the issue. So, Tampa Civil, uh, could you pull that a little to the left, please? There. Thank you. So, historically, um, this is where the large wetland was. There is a road here called Terrell Lane, and you can see where the old ditches. I'm going to show you some pictures, but Terrell Lane was built through the middle of the wetland, which created a large embankment. It's a very small pipe that exists there today. As the water flows north through the wetlands and I'll show you pictures, it gets to this location here where there are two pipes. This is kind of the Hatfields and the McCoys. There is one pipe that's large. Um, believe it's 30 in. Um, and another pipe immediately downstream of it that is 18 in higher and much smaller. And I'll show you the pictures of those. And essentially the water's blocked. So there's an embankment, the water's blocked. and where historically through illegal acts, whether they were illegal at the time or not, the water's been blocked. There's a large embankment built and the water can't get through. Once it gets through, it's wide open. So, there is one choke point where the water can't get through. Um, we furnished the county with all the survey data that they needed to fix us. We reached out. We worked with county attorney's office. Um, we submitted documentation. We have a swiftmud permit. The swiftmud permit agrees with me that we're going to make things better. I'll show you how much better. We have a county permit to mass grade that shows it impervious. The county's reviewed it. The county also agrees. Let me show you the level of what's going on, though. Can you guys reposition that just a little better? homes. All of a sudden,

wait, is that turned?

Yeah.

Are these different pipes or the same pipe?

Same pipe. Other side. Can you turn it? Can you turn it? Not up.

What?

It's water in high. So this all the way up as it gets pipes branch. all this acres.

Was that caused by the homeowner,

the land owner?

The land owner. I mean, is he the one that really doesn't want anybody on his property as well? Nikki Spirtos is working on this and this was upside down.

This issue dates back to when Commissioner Moore was in office. That's how long this boxing match has been.

Well, it shouldn't be allowed to go on.

So So we don't we don't know who actually impeded the water. We don't know if it was like this when this person purchased this house. We don't know if he did it. Um but we know that there is a blockage. The county attorney's office has tried to reach out. They've offered to do the work. They want an easement.

Nikki's right there.

Oh,

and and um and the person doesn't want to give up an easement. So that's

they can't be allowed to cause harm to their neighbor during the storm. We met with customers downstream from them and it what this is doing irregardless of this project has a negative impact but I'll

right because those people couldn't get to their homes

but they almost lost property in and their property was damn it I'll let Miss Pertos or county attorney since this is kind of a funky issue here

to misspeak but whatever enforcement action may or may not take.

Can we hear from Nikki?

Yeah.

Okay. So, so what what we can do our our contribution to the problem because we don't have the rights to go on their property. We try to engage. We had a big meeting with a lot of people. Was a knockdown dragout is because we're up on the hill. We're higher. We're significantly higher. We're 15 feet higher.

Wow.

We're way higher. Almost 20 feet higher. um we can hold the water up on the hill and we've demonstrated with our swift mud permit and a letter that we furnished to county storm water with calculations that in the 25-year event once every 25 years we can reduce the discharges by 30% from our site which is about 19 cfs that's significant 19 cubic feet. You know what? Why should you have to pay this this project have to pay for this guy's illegal use of his property?

I don't disagree, Commissioner, but we're just trying to be good neighbors. When I, like I said, two years ago, I went out there, saw there was an issue, took it upon myself to figure out what the issue is, and what can we do? And so, um,

do you mind if we hear from Nikki just to see where we're at? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thank you, Spartos, Pesco County Attorney's Office. How are you doing this afternoon, commissioners? Um, so the situation we have downstream of this project is that this is a constrained open basin. So unlike a typical open basin, there's a choke point and it's constrained. And Mr. Couch has um provided additional survey data and has um been very generous in his um ideas to help improve the situation. But it is an existing situation. So [sighs] the person who has the driveway that has the smaller culvert, he was not the property owner when the smaller culvert was put in according to the records with the EP, but he did purchase a property. It does have the smaller cvert. Um, I believe it was proposed that the applicant um replace the culvert, but I don't know where the communications over the last couple weeks have gone with a complainant. So, I don't know if that's an option or not. The county doesn't have the right to just go onto the property and change out the size of the culvert. So my understanding of Florida administrative code is that the applicant has to design for the conditions that exist. That's the condition that exists.

Nick, I thought that I thought that the county and the water management district together would fix it at its cost if the property owner allowed it, not a third party. the county was willing to put in um the correct size culvert or I should say we don't know what the correct size culverts are for those driveways. There's more than one. Okay,

but they're each different, but the county was willing to put in the larger culvert for the property owner at no cost to that property owner. Um, the property owner didn't want to give the county an easement and then we agreed that we could do it with a a temporary construction easement and the property owner was unwilling. But that's not the property owner who's at most at risk of flooding. It's the one upstream of him who's most at risk of flooding. So the person who doesn't want to give us the easement is not the one who's most at risk. Uh what about civily civil suit wise?

That's always an option. It's extremely expensive

for the neighbor.

Extremely expensive.

That's a question for the Yes, ma'am.

the civil engineer.

Y

that's okay.

So you're saying you're 15 feet higher and you would be able to hold all your water. Can you explain how you would be able to

Sure. Yeah. So right right now, um, our property is steep. It's kind of a small hill. If you've been to that like Kier Parkway 54 area, it's pretty high. There's a bridge there. And so what happens right now is the runoff from our property, shoots down the hill, immediately, hits the wetlands, and ends up over near Terrell Lane where uh the embank the first embankment is. Um when we develop we'll build retention ponds at a higher elevation. We'll trap our water. We are trapping our water and we are slow releasing it significantly lower. The code allows me to release it at the same rate that the pre-development exists to make my pond small. We've made our ponds larger to hold the water and release it slower in order to do our small part.

Madam chair.

Yeah. While you're up there, Jeremy, I want to thank you, too. When we did our meeting, you did tell us that about the issue and then working with staff, I knew there was something that had to be addressed and I was very surprised to actually see this coming forward knowing staff was working on it. So,

yes, sir.

That's from my reaction. When you're holding the water, it's for a 25-year storm. Is that right?

Uh, so we hold it for we designed for the 25 and the 100. So, in the 25, we're doing a reduction of 30.16 and for the 100, we're doing a reduction of about 11%. Okay. And if we have a larger storm, then you're not going to be able to hold the water. It's still going to release out.

I mean, if we have another act of God event,

it's going to happen.

It's it's everybody. It's all of us. We we we have to have a standard to design to. It's like a house. We don't design it for a 500 mph wind. We just have to pick a number and work with that.

Well, on on a open basin, you have one set of stand. A closed basin would be a different standard. Closed basins are a different standard

be what storm event would that be?

So you'd still design for the same storm events. You just treat the water differently. You have a volume problem when you're closed. The water has nowhere to go. This instance, the water has somewhere to go. It's just there's it's there's a closed basin is like a deadend road. The road ends, it goes nowhere. This is like if you're on a threelane highway and it chokes up to one lane. Mhm.

All you can do is slow down the amount of traffic you put into that road to help out.

Okay. All right. Let me get to a legal question if I could. So, when anybody's going to develop, they can't change the water flow. It's got to keep the regular flow. Evidently, the person that has this other smaller culvert now has changed the flow. I know that if someone buys a property, whether it had previous things done to it, we make those people ran for permanent to fix it. Now, clearly this person is none for permitting, but they are the property has affected a negative change that affects everybody else. Is there something we have legally to go after this person to get this culvert to be opened up because they have changed the water flow? I got to think Swift's got some type of power. They did it for the u the legends down in Trinity and we had that little culvert that got blocked to a foot. We had Swift Mud went in there, made them open it up and they had to pay for it even to go through it. If I can make the reserve down there in Trinity go do it, why can't I have this guy go bring it back to where it was before too?

SW might has stated they don't have jurisdiction over this single family residents property.

Even if it connects to the flow of everything else that goes on,

right?

I had that same look.

We had this problem in Sierra Pines and this is now Jagger's problem. We had one homeowner who had the ditch that drained the whole neighborhood and he wouldn't let the county in to um to um clean clean the drain. It was flooding the whole community.

Could we go eminent domain and take the property?

If you could prove a public purpose, I think we could. We got all these people flooding. But the Spirittos is our imminent domain lawyer and she's giving me this look that that live just stepped in it. So,

yay. One more file.

Go back to the podium. [laughter]

Nikki, what do you think? Is there any way to make this happen to get this fixed? Well, my understanding is that the applicant has represented that they have looked at this location as a downstream node and that their storm water modeling calculations have indicated that they will not have an adverse impact. Is that correct, Mr. Couch? Um, so well, all right. So, not not even for this development. Forget this development for a moment. I'm just talking about the situation with the pipe that's been shrunk or raised,

right?

Or both.

Can you is there some way to make it establish a public purpose to fix fix that so every the other 25 homes or even hundreds of homes down below don't get flooded because the water is now can flow out freely if we take over this culvert and fix it.

We can consult with the um code enforcement team and see if we can issue a citation. We need we need the water to flow to the well fields for public purpose. Right.

I think

I'll stop.

Let me consider the eminent domain matter, but I I think the citation approach might be more effective.

Was it D that originally permitted it? Somebody originally permit.

There was no I don't know if there was an original permit. Honestly, it appears as though it dates back to the ditch and drain of the mosquito control district's operations.

Um, subsequent to that, a driveway culvert was put in and subsequent to that, it was sleeved. D came out to the property and when they discovered that it wasn't the current owner who had sleeved the culvert, they didn't want to take any enforcement action against the current property owner. So,

well,

that's, you know,

sorry, but you can't let someone flood your community. I I think

Well, let's take that up as a separate issue

at another time.

It's a big problem. Let me let me go a little further. So, if they made a policy decision not to go after it,

right,

but they still had the power, do you think, to go after it if they chose to?

I think so.

Okay. So maybe we get some state legislative help to make that happen.

Yeah,

but but hang on. But our own code, we're strong enough to go site and go after it.

We can definitely um speak to the code enforcement team and see if we see who our witness would be for that situation

or a witness would be.

Yes. Yes. They need a engineer support.

Okay,

there he is. He just raised his hand. [laughter] He just raised his hand. He's got all the documentation in front of us.

Is that Jeremy? Did Jeremy

Yeah. [laughter]

Yes. So that that's okay.

That's our main issue is who would be our expert.

All right. So see seeing where we are right now, this is my opinion. We have an applicant who's willing to take on the burden of holding the water so that this doesn't have adverse effects to his neighbors, which to me is very unfortunate because that isn't their responsibility. But they've re looks like they've remedied the situation at their expense, but we still I mean for the 25-y year event, right? But we still need to go and have this guy open up his scope. So, one of my concerns is if the road if those people couldn't get to their homes that already live there and we're going to add more homes.

Well, let's let let's let them speak to that.

Okay.

Barbara Will height? So, my engineer has just explained that we exceeded all the requirements and we're doing more to hold water than water's moving today. We actually have, it's not just saying it either, he has permits. He's actually done all the work. He's got the swift permit and he's got the permit from the county. So, he's done all of that work. So, we have exceeded what we are required to do to make it better. Um, we as one project can't fix this. So,

um, commissioners, you had questions on traffic. Did we? Um, I don't think we got to that. I I'll say that just with the with the traffic part as far as the access goes having it to the 90th unit. I appreciate the offer to come out of the first unit, but frankly those you have may have seen all the emails and whatever from the estates uh even from Meadow Oaks, all the construction traffic going through neighborhoods that disrupt everything. At the minimum, I'd want to see that those those infrastructure projects that are going to be done done before it even starts to at least take some of the burden off because there will be trucks that could be lined up there 7:00 in the morning coming in, coming out and and really hurting these people for their for their access. Yeah, we have what we've agreed to is reasonable. We've went way beyond um the code requires. We have and what we've agreed to today is a reasonable timing for those improvements to the intersection overall um at 54 in Livingston. And we've agreed to construction access. We've agreed that we're not going to be on 20-mi level road. We're going to be on the road that we reconstruct. So my I think we've been more than reasonable in what we proposed um relating to accelerating the improvements to that intersection I think is reasonable.

You're entitled to that thought.

What's that?

You're entitled to that thought.

I know. I know.

Um I the traffic uh engineer is here. Do we want to listen to the traffic engineer?

We also have to listen to public comment too to get their their comments.

Yeah, but we're the applicant hasn't finished their presentation. Did you want the traffic engineer to speak as part of your team?

Sure.

We'll bring Steve up.

Good afternoon. Steve Henry, Linkson Associates, 5023 West Laurel, Tampa 33607. So, uh, as Barbara I have been Yes. Um, as Barbara had indicated, you know, one of the things we did when we went back from planning commission was we were looking at what mitigation we can do. Now, again, this is only a small town home project and you've got the intersection of 54 and Livingston. So, we looked at a number of different options. One was to simply come up with a bigger improvement, pay a prop share, but then nothing would really be done at the intersection. We pay a prop share and nothing may get done. So we that's what took some time was looking at what a project of this scale could do to that intersection to help mitigate the impact for it. And in addition to that then we met with the county. We also met with DOT since it is a DOT road. And when you look at the numbers and this is where we came up with it. When you look at the numbers and I'll I'll put this on the elbow. Do you want to move it down a little bit? So when when we looked at the numbers at this intersection, the the northbound movement, northbound right turn movement was in in buildout which is 2030 is over almost 300 cars turning right. The through volume was only 50. And when you look at that area, you can see that the northbound right turn lane is is fairly short and you got a disparity between the through volume and the right turn volume. So that's when we came up with the improvement to take that northbound through movement lane and make it a shared through right and then a right turn lane. So what you've done now is taken instead of 300 cars being in one lane, you've got 400 cars in two lanes. So it helps the overall capacity. Doesn't change the timing of the intersection, but but helps doesn't help doesn't change the phasing of it, but adds that additional capacity. allows it to flow a little bit better then and in fact what happens also is that northbound right cues into the through lane which then creates some problems. So this kind of helps balance the intersection and helps with the capacity. But again given that we got a relatively small project we're trying to come up with something that would at least mitigate the impact which we believe that this improvement will mitigate the impact to the intersection. Certainly not going to fix the intersection. takes a lot more than that to fix the intersection, but it certainly mitigates it. And as indicated by code, we're not even required to do that, but that's what the developer had agreed to do was to come up with some type of mitigation to help the intersection and mitigate their impacts to it,

Madam Chair.

Yeah.

So, in looking at this map, there's three lanes there. Are the number of lanes changing or just

No, we're just restriping. Now, we have to we have to do there are there are a fairly significant amount of of signal improvements that have to be done to be able to accommodate those movements to be done. But yes, we are we will be restriping the intersection again to balance out the volumes there.

Are you talking about from the north going south or

No, the north.

The south going north.

I just drove Livingston last Monday. Scary road at night. There's no shoulders. There's no sidewalks, no lights. That's not your south of I'm talking about south of 54. It was not um

how how many units are you guys putting it?

178.

178. Yes.

Okay. Sure. Commissioner W. So, um, to Commissioner Mariana's point, if it's just re predominantly restriping, uh, for this intersection, right, that's what I'm hearing is predominantly just restructuring the striping on this segment of road.

Um, correct. It is restriping, but again, part of that is we have to do a lot of the signal as far as the signal modifications to allow that geometry to work. There's that's actually where more of the cost is in the signal modifications than it is the pavement markings.

So, how long does that typically take

to permit that and con uh yeah permit it? Probably four months to construct it. Once you get a permit, 90 120 days

in your schedule of work. When did when would you start that process? Well, I think what we've agreed to in this case is that this would be installed prior to the the first um review of the CO. Actually, they call it the the first the last review of the building inspection, I think is what they call it, but but basically CO, part of the first CO

the first CO would be done.

Correct. That's what we're first person would potentially be living here. All this work would be done.

Correct. Yes. Okay. Um, this is a public hearing. Is there anyone here wishes to speak to this?

I have two signed up.

We have two signed up. Susan Lang and George Kofaloo. Is George still here?

Okay, you can go out to [laughter] them together.

You guys are refreshing. Thank you very much.

Together.

Very refreshing. Please.

My name is Susan Lang. I reside at 2720 20 mile level road. Been there almost 33 years. Next month. Um I have a little map. I'm just going to talk pretty much to traffic. Um with this uh new proposed development uh going through Livingston and 54. It's [clears throat] a crazy intersection. It's just kind of a three-way. Um it goes a little bit further back. If you can see the map. Um it it allows access to the senior living. It allows access to Venezia Drive, which is the back road to those commercial developments in the front. It's also the only access to those apartments they mentioned earlier. And it also provides access to all the homeowners in Terabella. Um they complain all the time about their access next to Florida Medical because it's a brick road and it gets used a lot and they have to pay you to fix it. Anyway, the point is um the infrastructure to support the development is just not there. It seems not to be there for 20 mile level and 54 intersection. Um I did a research with the DOT system so it's a 10-year snapshot from 2011 to 2020 in terms of um accidents and injuries and fatalities. And um in comparison the the the Livingston intersection over that that 10-year period had over 200 accidents with two fatalities. to compare that Kuru and 19 in the same period of time had 769 accidents with three fatalities. Now that's a big difference in number in terms of how many accidents versus deaths versus our little 20-mile level and Livingston or or Livingston and 54 intersection. Um, one of the concerns on 20-mile level, it is a lime rock road. It is countymaintained and it is dead end. We only have one way out. The concern and and discussion with the traffic while they develop is when that road's blocked, we don't have a back door. So, there's no way out. During the hurricanes last October, we did have flooding. We were able to get by it. It wasn't terrible. But the after effect, we had some tree company come in to do some tree repair. And I don't know who was responsible for it. It doesn't matter. They blocked our road. Nobody could get in or out. We have one one direction. So traffic is a huge huge issue at that intersection at Livingston. It's dangerous. It has a lot of activity and it the numbers are just super high. Um there was talk about infrastructure of expanding County Line Road to support the 54 avenues, things like that. All I ask is before the approval goes on this development, do the infra infrastructure to support it. That would be fine and then we could all get along great. The emergency response times right now are huge. Um, year to date there's been like 174 calls to that senior living facility. This is only October. Well, I guess it's already October. And, uh, Florida Medical, they've had like 76 emergency calls. So, they're using that intersection. This is emergency activity that's happening. The delays on time is increasing. So, please just do the infrastructure before it's approved and then approve it. All right. We good? [laughter]

Okay. Okay. Thank Thank you. And next.

I have not been sworn in since I was talking to the chicken lady. [laughter]

Hey, I got chickens. You know, we all have chicken.

Where are you in?

Please raise your right hand.

Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth. So help you God.

Yes, I do.

Please state your name for the record. George Cavalu, 23651 Harmony Lane, which is an easement off of 20 mile level road. I was going to talk about water and the effects of basically how much development this commission's allowing and that we're overping and stuff, but that's irrelevant. They're addressing traffic and they're talking about the northbound uh Livingston entryway, but you got 178 town homes. Let's just say 125 of those are two two parent or two a couple. You have two cars there. That's 250 cars. Most of them are probably going to go to work 8 7 8 9:00. Now you have 250 cars that have to get out. They can go one of three ways if you want to come in. So you have that problem on Livingston, which is a two-lane road. Even on their entrance, it's going to be two-lane road. If you're coming home, if you pull up that map, that area real quick. If you're going if you're if you're up on 54, you're coming eastbound, the only way to get into that development is a single lane turn for a left turn. Plus, if you're going on Huntington, you're making a Uturn. I now people will give you anecdotal evidence. I worked in Tampa. I traveled this route and I had to make the U-turn to go to 20 mile level. I used to come up 41 Collier uh Willowan Parkway to Collier and then 54 and make the U-turn. That got too too much traffic. So I started coming across Livingston coming up coming across Sunset coming up Livingston to hit it so I can make the left turn. I've almost gotten creamed there twice in the last six months. Uh the right turn lane isn't the problem. is that you're going to have to make a left. Now you're gonna have more through traffic going to their development. You're still going to have the left turn going towards if you want to go to Huntington or go westbound. Plus, you have the turning lane there where if they're going to go to Huntington, then they have to make the Uturn and then you're going to have people they're not all going to come up Livingston. They're going to come up 41 to to 54. They're going to make a left turn out of that traffic line. You have one lane. You have a short life. I've sat there in the last year when I was working, I've sat there between five to six changes of the light. I've sat at Livingston for five to six changes. But also, you have another problem downstream on Livingston. If somebody is making a right turn, uh, left turn southbound onto County Line Road, you're looking at a light per per car that wants to make the turn at a lot of times during the day. I know this not anecdotally because I've sat in that traffic waited two to three lights if two or three cars are going through coming south northbound. You got the same problem at Collier. Uh well, it's co it's collier there county line and livies going through. There's just so much traffic. You're going to add another 250 cars to this. They're going to come one

of three ways and that's you know

have to wrap it up. So

I did that's pretty much it. You know, we have we have there's no traffic control on the on the main one that they're worried about, which would they're not worried about, which would be eastbound on uh on 54 trying to make that lefthand turn or a U-turn.

Okay. Um we're going to Is there anyone else here who wishes to speak to this? Do we have anyone online today? I think we're our online is not working today. Something's going on there. Um you know, as we're looking at this map, can you zoom in on this a little bit? This is just for my commissioners because I like to harp on this. Uh, what happened? I just wanted you to zoom in

because it's not

We can't zoom. We can't make that bigger.

No.

All right. This is my little beef. See Park Crescent Drive down there on the bottom left.

Mhm.

And if you look if you look at the map, I'm just looking at it here. Um, Barbara's map. Can you can you um put her map up like this again? And you can see it right there. If we had made it so that those neighbors had to connect. There would have been some connectivity and if they if there was a flooding, people could have come in here over there and out that way. So, they didn't weren't relying on one road. That is one of the reasons why it's so important that neighborhoods interconnect. Um they are showing a future connection to the north and a future connection to the to the west. So that will help connect you know with flow from the communities around it and that is very very important in in my eyes this connectivity. Um all right we'll let the applicant come back up and address the uh issues that were hurt.

Being that was all traffic I want to see if Steve's got anything he can add. I know he's also looked at the traffic crash data as well. So

again, Steve Henry Linkson Associates. Uh, one talk about the the accidents at the intersection. So we actually had uh the county supply the the last five years of accident data at that intersection. Um, and when we look at it, there have been 130 accidents at the intersection over the last five years. So then what we look at is is that a lot of accidents or not? And so what we do is we look at the the number of accidents per million vehicles through the intersection. That's how DOT looks at intersection. So when you look at that, you look at the number of accidents, 130 accidents over five years. That comes out to be about 1.05 accidents per million vehicles through the intersection. When you look at the DOT and DOT has gone through the entire state, every county, every different type of road and assessed what the average accident rate is for the different roads. So when you take a six lane urban arterial roadway for DOT, the average accident rate is 3.77 accidents per million miles traveled. So from this standpoint, this intersection is well below what the average would be for the type of facility for 54. So from that standpoint, there are certainly accidents. The reality is the majority of them are rear end, which is what you expect to see at a signalized intersection. That that's just the reality of signalized intersections. But from a from a rate standpoint, this is actually not a high accident intersection. from a a um traffic standpoint, uh the the 250 cars, that's assuming that everybody leaves their house at the same time. The reality is that's not what happens. Obviously, it's over a period of time. We've looked at that. The reality is this number of units has about 83 cars leaving or coming and going in the in the morning and about 103 in the afternoon. So much less than the 250 that they're they're talking about. And again, we have come up with mitigation for the intersection. Um, you know, are we going to fix it? No. But we certainly have come up with some mitigation to help the overall intersection. Thank you.

Um, I thank you. I have a question for the applicant and the engineer, not the traffic engineer. Gina, can you put up the picture that my staff sent you that has the uh oak trees around the storm water pond? Um you you've all seen this photo. This is driving up Little Road. It's uh kind of near the entrance of Riverside Village on the right hand side of Little Road. Um so these are storm water ponds that line Little Road, but look what they did with them. They lined them with oak trees. So, um, uh, I'm just wondering if we can get our applicants and our engineers to do this. Instead of having those bald storm water ponds, we could put some of our tree canopy back around the edges of the storm water ponds. Is there any issue with that? Um, yeah. I don't know why we don't do this or require this personally. Okay. Um,

it's Yes,

they I'm not I think Barbara needs to do her rebuttal and then you can ask your questions.

Okay,

that is fine. We just we wanted to address traffic. We've talked about drainage. We talked about traffic. Um, the county used their mitigation tree mitigation fees and did that years ago when I was at the county. That's how that pro that's how that came to look like that.

Yeah. And it's it's lovely, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I don't think I mean my team's saying that's not a

Yeah, I'd like

an issue.

See them put some trees around their ponds, especially the ones along

the road.

Anybody else have any other questions for my team?

Was that your rebuttal?

Yeah, that is.

Okay. See, [laughter] I've got a comment. So, the engineers construction in estimate of the signalization project signalization says it's $71,000. Roadway is $100,000. Then there's some other items that get up to over 200,000. Is there anything else we're missing as far as what you guys are doing for improvements?

So there are four things we're doing. One is we are extending your vision road.

I'm talking to your standards. I'm talking about the intersection right now.

Right. Because I just because it's four things that we do for mitigation, but

I'm just talking about this one right now.

You have the estimate. Yes. And if you want

71,000 signalization.

Yeah. We'll get Steve back up here because it's his estimate. So Okay. All right. Yes.

So on your estimate it's 71,000 holes for in signalization. It says roadway 100,000. What is that?

That would be it to mill and resurface the road if needed um as part of the restriping.

Okay. So it's actually less than what you would said. Singalization is only 71,000.

Right. And who determines if needed?

That would be in the permitting process as to whether or not that would be just simply a restriping exercise or whether it be a milling and resurfacing, but we wanted obviously wanted to go on the high end of it just in case that it ended up being that we had to do that. So that's why we put that number in there.

Right. So with the signalization compared to the way it is right now, the gentleman was talking about how he sits in turn after turn with with the signals. Is your signalization going to improve that? How will it improve it?

It will improve it to again to a degree it will improve that northbound approach to the intersection. It it's not going to fix the other other movements at the intersection, but it will help that overall inter the overall intersection. It will help it with that movement of the intersection.

But the northbound has nothing to do with this neighborhood.

Well, we certainly have some traffic in that northbound. Again, what we were looking at is not necessarily specifically, you know, our traffic. What we're looking at is the overall intersection and we're looking at what can a project of this magnitude do to the intersection to try to help the situation. We looked at the imbalance between the rights and the thus and that's what we came up with that to try to help balance it. It would then basically be equal volumes between the the northbound left the northbound then the shared through right and the right. So it kind of balances the volumes at those three at those three lanes. Again not fixing the intersection but simply helping the overall operation given the imbalance of the traffic at the intersection.

You know we can't ask 178 units to fix a big problem.

But that's again, we we can't fix a big problem. All we can do is try to come up with a solution that helps given, you know, the circumstances that we've got out there, the geometry and the volumes that we have out there to come up with a solution.

Do we feel that we answered the construction traffic? Because this has become a very big problem for a lot of our constituents. how we're we're how we're dealing with construction.

Well, here's what to me here's what you're gonna see.

I just want to make sure we get the wording right.

So, in the morning, you got 80 80 trips coming out 103 in the afternoon going back out coming back in. Think about the gentleman who just said here with what going out there at that intersection to try to go out there sitting through a number of lights. How many more lights you get? 20 cars, let's say, 40 cars, let's say, in daytime traffic getting getting ready to go to school. All those trips are right there and how are they going to get out? How long is that backup going to be? Now add in construction traffic to go in there as well.

Well, but but again, you're not going to have construction traffic and our buildout traffic. And and just to right address your your your comment there in the morning outbound is 65 cars. So again, the 83 was the total in and out

and in the PM it's about 42 cars. So again, yes,

65 cars going out there. We heard the gentleman talk about how long it takes him to get out there. Now we got 65 cars going out there, maybe going to school, maybe going to work, all in there from the 7 to 9, jamming them all in there. How much is that going to be? And keep this in mind too, you know, US 41 and 54, you know how bad that intersection is, right? We spent how many years trying to get that fixed, trying to get funding, etc. Do you know this one is the next worst at Collier?

And now you go through all this stuff here going to the right.

Okay, we're not Collier. We're we're at Livingston. I understand. That's why I said call your up there, but I'm saying that intersection is terrible. Now, we're taking a lot of these people are going to be heading up that way as well

to to compound it even further.

Again, our our impact on this intersection is extremely we we are actually less than 1% of the capacity of the roadway. So, we we are infotential increase in in the the delay at the intersection.

You're missing my point. You're missing my point. The point is not just for what goes on 54. It's all these people that live up there right now that are going to be trying to get out there and now aren't going to be able to get out. And then even when the development's done to try to get out as you say, it's not going to fix much. Now, you're still going to get even more traffic backed up there waiting for these people to get out.

Again, we we are mitigating our impacts to that intersection with with our improvements.

Is there we get a vote?

Where's Nick? U is he here? I know there's intersection improvements coming at CEUR

and 54 right and 27. What's the time frame? When's our we had that last briefing? There's some turn lane improvements.

Good afternoon.

My is my memory

commissioners Nick Ren County Engineer Ker and 54 turn lane improvements.

What did didn't we discuss? We're doing some things some work down at at the intersection of um Caler and County line. Is that where where it intersects with Livingston to the south?

Is that what you're thinking of?

Oh,

potentially. I'm I know we'd had some briefings on some on some improvements, but I thought that there were some turn lane improvements coming in at 54 and CER going northbound. We so we've looked at modifying the the median

on Collier to to make a longer storage area for southbound left turns. I don't know that we've implemented or have a plan to pull the trigger on that one yet. I'll have to get back with you

like what we did at 54.

I thought we had when when we briefed

Well, you weren't here then.

I was let me follow up if that's what you're thinking of. Are we modifying the the the median

median? Yep. For

Let me follow up on that. I'm not sure where that sits.

That was happening sooner than later.

I I thought it was too, but I need to investigate.

Yeah. So, we are definitely going to try to increase storage capacity and make the operations of the intersection work a little more efficiently, minimize the conflict points. Yeah.

Um I have a question for Barbara and them. Um and sorry if I missed this. the construction traffic. Is it possible you can divide it between 20 mile and Livingston for a time being?

I mean, you'd have to make a temporary connection maybe.

So, we were asked to keep construction traffic off of 20 mile,

but maybe that helps if some it's on 20 mile.

I don't

What's your thoughts on that?

I don't think so.

No,

it's not fair to the residents.

Right. Right. So that's where we were asked to to use the signalized intersection

divided up.

So is that is that extension where the where the vision road is or is that essentially going to be like a mini layown yard?

What was that?

Where you're looking at extending living center to the north where you're where the project's going to potentially build part of the vision road. I'm assuming that's going to be part of a layown yard storage place.

Let me get a work right. Let me get our engineer up here. I did forget to say re receive and file the the PowerPoint which I gave to the clerk. So, if you wouldn't mind while he's walking up here and filing this. Yes.

Second.

All in favor?

Commissioner is Jeremy Couch. I'm the civil engineer for the project.

I think there is a slight bit of confusion about what we're doing and I want to really clarify that what we're actually doing. Um, can you pull up the aerial real quick, please? Um, okay. And can you zoom in a little bit on 20 mile level and go south to 54? Thank you. Perfect. One more zoom. Okay, great. Okay. So, at the north end of 20 mile level, there are 20 or 25 residents. To go home and to leave, if they want to go to the outlet mall right now, what they have to do is they come down the dirt road. They have to make a right, which is west. They have to go make a U-turn and then go back east to go to dinner at the outlet mall. And when they come home at night, whichever way they come, whether they come up Livingston or whe they come east down 54, they have to get to Livingston, they have to make a Uturn, go back to 20 mile level and go north up the dirt road to their home. That's how they get home today. What we're saying is right now, Livingston ends. So if you I'm an expert at this right here. Livingston ends right here. The only thing that accesses Livingston right now, this is one of, I think, three access points to Tiraabelloo, not to mention the driveway out here from the Dairy Queen. The only thing that really comes in here is the ALF. It ends.

So, what we're saying is we're going to build this road in. We're going to stabilize it. And so instead of those 25 people getting dirt trucks running up and down the road and stuff, we're going to come in from Livingston where the only people using Livingston now generally are the ALF and the people at the commercial site. That's what that condition is is so that they can have their peace in their dirt road and they don't have to deal with construction traffic and hauling and going up and down the dirt road. That's what that is now. So there's not a lot of So there's not not a lot of people using Livingston right now.

Nobody's using Livingston. You can't

Yeah. until their residents come in. So

just bumps.

Yeah.

So that

feel better.

What will be better though, what what I don't think was said in any of the testimony is that when we connect ultimately we are going to connect Livingston to 20 mile level up here. Right

now, when these people want to come home that live on 20 mile level, they're not going to wait here and make a Uturn and then go up the dirt road. They're just going to go up Livingston and they're going to be straight home. And on the southbound approach, if you're coming from USF or from Tampa, you're not going to have to wait and make a left where the racetrack is. Now, you're just going to be able to go straight home, straight through the intersect. And so that that's the real improvement that we're doing.

Yes.

Is and so that's what Steve is saying is that that remmajiggering is going to change and improve the intersection.

Okay.

Thank you.

When does when does that part of Livingston get built

immediately

up front? We have to we have to we have to use it for our access. So So what it says is we got to show up because we can't get there now. It's woods. We're going to drop the equipment. We're going to clear it and stabilize Livingston and that will become our construction access. The only thing we're going to be on 20 mile level for is to connect the utilities to the south and that's already a utility corridor for the county. Met with them. That's where they want the utilities.

So, anybody's going to live up above there, they're going to be able to get on 20 mile level. If they're going to take a right, they don't even have to go to that Livingston light. They just go to the right and go up

right now. But once once Livingston's, they're not going to do that. They're going to go straight up Livingston to 20 mile level. They're going to be like I'm I'm gonna say I think the long-term effect of this whole thing should be that 20 mile level road gets paved because if you can take all those intersection trips that back up here on Livingston that want to go to the right, if they can have an alternative route going through here, all those turns now you can free up that intersection a lot better. So, so this commissioner goes way back to the beginning where we had conversation about closing 20 mile level and that was a whole debacle. So now what we're doing is we're tying 20 mile level back into Livingston. Will showed it on his exhibit. So that option remains there. So now these folks have two ways to get out. They can go down 20 mile level if they don't want to wait at the light or they can go to Livingston if they want to make a left and go to the outlet mall.

Anybody who's going to do through traffic at Livingston and 54, if they're going to go straight through, the best thing is go obviously going to the light going across. If they're going to go take a left, head to the Elder Mall, Livingston's going to be the way to go. But anybody else in the whole development from above should be coming down this parallel road here. Commissioner Starky about interconnectivity. you have this if you have this other road to the side, everybody's going to be able to take a right turn if it's paved is going to go down that way and take the right turn and get out

and that would free up that intersection a lot better than it's going to get

blasted up. Now,

commissioner, I don't think there's a lot of southbound volume now on on Livingston. I don't think there's anything there in the morning. It's just ALF. They're old people. They don't go anywhere.

No, no, no, no. I'm not I'm not I'm not saying the ALF's moving because that's one of the things. I mean, you talk about trips,

those are very minimal trips. I'm talking about everybody that's going to live in this development that's going to live above it already. When they come down, if they all come down to Livingston, that intersection gets

jacked up at and all you've got to do, all you're doing right now is striping and and other improvements. What I'm saying is, let me finish.

As I'm saying is 20 mile road is a good reliever road for anybody who's going to come out on 54 and take the right turn and go out.

The improvements we're doing is on the south side of 54. On the north side, you got what Steve said, 65 vehicles over a two-hour period. That's one car every two minutes that are coming down to, I believe there's three lanes, two there's two lanes at that north north leg. So, you're going to take R65 plus whoever's coming out of the ALF in the morning plus the 25 homes up north. There's not going to be any traffic there. They're going to they're going to be able to make this left and they're going to be dancing because they don't have to go make the U-turn.

I've got

I'm good with the left.

Sorry.

No, I'm good with the left. I'm just saying

for everybody taking right if you if pull up the map for the intersection, please. Or is there anything is there anything changing on the north part here

on Livingston and 54? Is anything changing there at all?

Chair Starky. Chair Starky, if I may. I think I think what um Commissioner Mariano is referring to is just just making sure that 20 mile level road connects back into um Livingston right here. And I think if we

it does he said it does up at the top

that they're they're showing they show

giving them two options

of the of the site. They do have that connection.

As a matter of fact, do we even need living uh two mile 20 mile whatever south of that? Does anyone live on that area between Oh, wait. Between where 20 mile and living center are going to connect and 54.

We don't even need that there road. We could

relieve the traffic.

Well, well,

yes. If someone wants to go down a dirt road, they can choose to, I guess.

Right. So, there there is no it's a that's a commercial property in that stretch.

It leaves them options.

Yeah, it leaves an option.

It was important when we met with the neighbors. which is very important and they've actually looked at my conditions of approval and commented on them because at one point I didn't have it written right. It is important to those residents that live north of us that 20 mile over road stay so they have options.

Yeah. So

so we designed everything and did all of this timing on our construction and everything so we could really make things work.

Commissioner Waitman, it's it's your um it's your district. Do you want to make a motion?

Yeah. So I appreciate all the emails and everybody who's reached in and and reached in out about for this project and the future land use in this whole area is R six residential six and they're coming at 3.8 3.8 units per acre which is well under that and um the project is compatible and certainly not appropriate for the future and so with that I'll move approval

second

and um I think that you're improving the drainage by holding this the storage back I'm sorry you have to do that um when we have a neighbor who's not being cooperative uh

Madam Chair can I get a clarification on the motion does that include the change to the timing have the condition the intersection improvement that is prior to the first building inspection of the first unit that Barbara offered up previously.

Yes. Well, they part of your motion.

Those have to be done before any cos issued all those

right she she had offered up during previously

different than what was in your agenda package is is David's point that was modified at this hearing.

Miss will you please restate your offer? Yeah, the specific language is prior to the final building inspection for the first residential unit. Um, and we do building inspection because you can't do it at CO. So, it's the final building inspection for the first residential unit would be the language you could incorporate in your motion.

I just want to make sure the motion included that change.

It does.

Okay.

Further discussion?

Um, well, I'm I'm still stating mine under discussion, too. So, so, uh, it improves the drainage and it I think it makes it safer for residents. They don't have to do U-turns anymore. Commissioner Mariana,

I these improvements to these improvements to the south part of the road we're seeing on the map here, right? Not the north, not with this in not with the development. Is that correct?

On the map that's on the screen right now, these improvements that I'm seeing, are those from

north heading southbound? That's southbound to 54.

All right. So, there's part of the living center that goes up to connect.

That's Yeah, that's

okay.

Northbound. South going north.

It's a south is a southbound lane.

No, it it's it's if you're going from County Line Road

north 54. So, it's south of this. It's not where this development is going to be. It's to the other side of the road.

Correct. Yes, correct. Yes.

So, I think I I don't I don't know why this is being done so much, but I'll just say this. I think our money would be much better spent having that 20 mile road, getting it paved where more people are going to take that right turn to get out and relieve the traffic that's above there than it is for down here. I think the focus should be to the to the to the northern part where the development is, not to this section down here. I don't I don't I don't get why we're doing it this way. It's $71,000, right?

No, it's about 22 something,000. It's it's it's it's over it's over 200,000.

I'm saying that

put it on m on 20 mile

on 20 mile road because as you say, if you have more road ways to get in and out, it's better. And if you have all those people that are going to come down to that intersection that's from where they are, all those things are coming down that one light at Livingston. If they have an alternative way to take the right turnout, it's a much better use of money, I think. What can we do?

What can we do for 200 and something thousand on 20 mile road?

Just asking.

I don't want to charge it more money if the if the money's better spent. Is the money better spent improving 20 mile road? I think that's Commissioner Mariana's suggestion. I I think if there's any improvement on 20 mile level road is to the north to be able to figure out to get into to car go up to the top and go go west somehow that way.

I I won't argue with that either. But I mean but what we're doing right here doesn't make sense to what

that's why I said it didn't that those s southern things didn't affect the residents to the north.

So I'm going to say this as this vote comes up because of the storm water because of the traffic. I'm not happy with what I'm seeing here. We're just going to make a situation worse where I think there's potential to do something better.

Well, I I don't

You're not closing.

I don't see why we're making a situation worse because no one's using They're not We're making it better. They're now going to have two options to get out.

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's correct.

Yeah. So, okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Um the question is do we want to adopt uh amend the motion to say take the money that was going to be used south and let staff work with the applicant to see if there's a better use of that money to help 20 mile road leave it flexible and then we can get this through. What do you think? I'm not comfortable saying yes. And I

but we have I think we have three threes. So

that was

three A's. I'm just at trying to understand. I think Commissioner Marion had a good idea.

I think and I think your idea is good to amend the motion to make that happen. So

yeah, it doesn't they don't they would just work together. I don't want to hold them up. they would just work together to see if that money is better spent on a on improving 20 mile road somewhere. I don't know where that would be right now. But

and if it's not, then we're in the same

Yeah.

I just don't know by what standard you would determine would be optimal.

That's up to staff and the engineers and the applicant. just giving flexibility that 271

if that's the number

or do you want to leave it where you're fixing the strip being south of 54?

Well, that's where that's where the public said that there was a failure.

It's that left-hand turn movement

has got nothing to do with this project.

So, I've conversed with the county engineer. I mean, listen, what the applicant has proposed is,

you know, we we think it's sound. If you want, staff can look at improvements on Tony Mile level and then we can determine if that makes sense from a county perspective, but to I I just I don't think I'd be comfortable with with really no standard to to determine which would be better. The applicants proposed something that I think works and and will work in the meantime. We can take board direction to Commissioner Mariano's point here and take a look at 20 mile level road necessarily. I mean to not hold them up, but that would just be my thought.

But you're you're giving the engineers the flexibility to make that decision, not coming back to us. You guys have to decide what you want to do. They're not going to do it till the first construction CEO's issued anyway. So you got plenty of time to work it out.

And honestly, in the past, we haven't been kept a breast of things before and things have either changed or and so I I'm not comfortable with that either. Well, I have to ask the motion maker if he accepts an amendment. And if he doesn't, then take the vote. If it passes, we'll move on. If it fails, we take another motion.

I don't see I don't see anybody in the stand saying yay or nay.

I I'd much rather see the investment.

They need to answer

that caller.

Yeah. So, Barbara Height for the applicant. We spent four months working on this with DOT. I think your staff just said they they think the improvement that we proposed is is a good improvement. They're recommending it.

We'd like to stay the course with what we've worked very hard on and and very thoughtfully on.

That's what we'd like to do. But do I want you, you know, do I

do we not want to be flexible? We we can also be flexible. I mean, in the end of the day, you know, we can go either way. Um, if you want to be flexible and have the either or, that's fine. But we I we do stand behind and the staff stand behind what we what we brought for you brought to you today.

I just I just don't know what if it if the if the flex were going to be put in there, what would what would the improvements be?

Yeah, I I don't know. We would have to look at it. I mean to to Barbara's point, you know, it it's been looked at, but if the board wants us to sit down and scratch our heads again with it and either we agree that the original course of action was was right or if there's some modification that needs to be made jointly, then within the boundaries of what they they're proposing, then we can we can do that.

And I I have a comment because this is frustrating for me. I that's great that you guys have worked hard and you guys have worked hard, but we're the ones that get the emails and and our name is on it and I just need to I want to make sure that this project is good quality that the neighbors can get out, we're not causing more congestion, that what we say is going to happen and I'm afraid if this goes back to staff, we're never going to see it again and it might just stay status quo. And like Commissioner Mariano had an idea like if it if if it's not worth it then we might have just approved something that is going to stay like this.

Okay. Am I missing something? Because these residents are not coming down Livingston.

These res coming down 20 mile. There is no light. They're they're going down and they're making a U-turn on 54. So, we're going to allow them to come down Livingston and be at a signalized intersection

or go through floor medical plaza and yeah,

that is much better.

So, and my clients that my clients that segment that we're doing on Livingston Avenue, the client's paying for that's not an inexpensive segment of

I'm so may have three.

Um I just trying to add in the flexibility, but if you don't want to do it, I can call the call the vote. I'll leave you with the flexibility.

I was

all right. I'm I'm in the motion to for the flexibility.

Okay.

option. Uh and to keep

if it does change the course in the motion that staff or whoever appropriate update all five of us and that's in

but then does it go to another vote or

and what's going to I trust our staff.

We know

Mr. chairman, what is going to determine what they do? Because now you're left with two options. You're not sure what you're going to get and we're going to vote that it's either restriping.

It's either the intersection improvement as presented,

which is restriping, right? And

restriping and signal and signal changes.

We can do that ourselves

or paving of paving 20 mile level road

just on that part. Restriping. leaves the potential to pave a portion the southern portion of 20 mile level road or some level of improvement like that.

That would be what we would be discussing with staff to see if that was a good alternative for that money.

And if it's not, they'll go ahead and do the uh

and we'll do the intersection that everybody reviewed and

still think it's a good improvement.

I mean, it does help other citizens which at the end of the day is a good thing.

Yeah.

So the motion is amended.

Okay. All in favor?

Seconded. Yeah.

Yep. And the amended motion seconded. All in favor? I

I

opposed.

Okay. Passes three.

32.

All right. We are on to P60. Uh we're under I mean R60. We're on to Ralph.

All we got left is Ralph and

that it Ralph. Good afternoon. Ralph Lair, intergovernmental affairs officer.

Uh so today we are going to finalize our 2026 state legislative priorities. uh based on the conversation you all had at the uh legislative workshop back in September and followup um meetings I've had with uh you all individually. Um we will now review and go through um our policy and funding initiatives um to move forward for the 2026 legislative session.

[clears throat]

So for policy initiatives, uh we're going to go ahead and go with the fix to Senate Bill 180. Um this is a hot topic for the whole state with municipalities and counties. Uh I also see that this will be adopted u by FAC at their November legislative uh conference when they will finalize their legislative agenda. Um the next issue, inmate medical care. Um what this issue is is we we had our local bill. We ran into a snack again this year. We will not be moving forward with a local bill. However, there are other counties that wanted to try to address uh through a state bill to uh change uh the agency for healthc care's rule which prevents currently Medicaid payments for anyone that's incarcerated. Um, just so a little background information, federal regulations allow Medicaid to be covered, but uh, Florida does an exclusion. So, we're going to try to overwrite that and see if we can get that done. They have found a house sponsored, so we'll move forward with that one. Uh, support for community care. All this one is saying is let's continue having the legislature fund those issues. Um, it it does help our residents here in Pasco County. Um, so we ask for the continued support there. uh public records exemptions for misdemeanor probation staff.

Ralph, can I first on that one? Um do we have is it possible that we can uh you know you know how it is when people get arrested but not they're not charged with anything.

They're not educated. Yeah.

That adjudicated that we have to pay for their medical. Will this fix that too or is that still a federal?

That's still a federal we have to fix that.

But this is for Medicare.

This is for Medicare. This isn't for Medicare. this is our state healthcare that we provide. So, this is what we're trying to amend and say yes, we continue on. There are some states that opt out.

You know, again, federal law allows us to continue. Uh our state opts out. We're going to try to see if we can get them back in.

Yeah.

Um the next one, public records exemptions for misdemeanor uh probation staff. Don't uh we know that uh why there's a need for that where our uh those staff uh do get threats. Um, we'll see how that plays out. Uh, it has to have a sponsor. Um, we haven't got a sponsor yet, but we'll see. It's also another state issue. There's other counties that are trying to do the same thing. So, hopefully we'll get that done.

Um, okay. I need to go back. Where is the um code enforcement?

It's coming up.

Oh, okay. Good.

Uh, next one is a regional issue. This is one that Pineel has submitted before. So, this will be another FAC issue support raising the 911 fee uh that currently is collected uh it's 40 cents per line and is no longer able to support the level of expenses and maintaining the 911 system throughout the state. So, we're trying to get that raised again. Uh next one is another regional and state concern around the state uh support indexing for local option fuel tax. Again, I see this as a fairness uh state able uh uh to do that. Uh we're trying to get that as well too on our local option tax uh to um bring those fees up so we can uh afford the cost of construction. And then finally support amending the law uh for pertaining to code and municipal uh code. This too will be also addressed by FAC uh at their November and I'm sure it's going to pass as well.

Madam Chair,

y let's go back to that one about indexing the gas tax.

Yes. So, we did we did the meeting with a legislative delegation and and Representative Steel made it very clear we're not going to do anything that's going to increase any taxes on our citizens. So, I think when you put that in there, you lose him. You might lose the others right away. I don't think it makes sense to throw that in there with all the other things you're trying to do right now.

Okay. Well, we'll take it. We'll take that one off.

Well,

if you want, but I mean, what do you all want to do on that? Everybody else,

your thoughts on that? So, did you So, the comments back at the uh the comments back uh from the uh legislators that attended were they don't see the state raising taxes uh at the state level. What this would require is them to raise that tax uh the local

No, it just it just starts

it shifts the burden to your citizens.

It does. Great.

What was it? Yeah. shifts the burdens to the Pasco County taxpayers. 911 fees, not indexing fuel taxes, still come out of your general fund to cover those costs.

This is smart.

And these are users that can be out of state, especially on 911. Correct. Um, everybody drives the roads.

What I'm saying is I agree and I agree with it. But what I'm saying is you heard a state representative who's looking at different things to cut property taxes. There's eight other proposals or 10 other proposals on cutting property taxes. They want to cut taxes to try to throw this in there when he told us very clearly he's not supporting anything that's going to throw the burden on. I think it just hurts your argument.

But when they cut this the property tax, they're going to raise the sales tax. So they're going to be raising

whatever they do. Let them go figure that out. What what I'm just

I think that's going to go through.

This was in front of him and he said very clearly he's not going to do it.

So I got to think the others are going to be going along the same way. I think you're just like making it harder to get the other things you're gonna try to get later. That's all.

I hear you.

What about in Pel? Did this go through in Penllis or No.

Uh, yes. It'll be part of their priority. Yes.

This is part of the fact.

I mean, I say we in my opinion, I say it's worth a try. I think we should work.

Doesn't mean they're necessarily going to file a bill and do that. It just says we support doing that

if we're not covering our feet.

And again, the argument as as Mr. just stated currently it's it's your constit their constituents your constituents that now have to foot that bill uh and again fairness the state has the indexing we do not

let me say if they if we don't have this and they get rid of product taxes we're really I mean we're just further on the hole

and especially penalis is doing it I think you know

okay

we should try

the whole state's trying to get this done

it's it's okay I just wanted to bring it out because it was

it's a good point thank you I I I'm I'm supportive of your argument.

Sometimes you have outliers.

Just saying.

So that'll be our um policy initiatives. And then moving forward, we have our our um funding initiatives. Um

can I I I want to ask my board something. Um I want to bring up to you [clears throat] um third party inspections on policy initiatives. There is a lot of chatter online again about um and I I heard the attorney general is investigating um a builder and it's a local builder and maybe it's more than one. I don't know. Um, but I know that in my district and in in Beexley and and some others, there was a builder who built houses and they immediately got mowled. And as a matter of fact, we have a head of planning whose house got muled. And we could not interfere, intervene, we could do nothing because they used a third party inspector. And so, um, but you know what? We're getting the blame for it online. County Commission is getting the blame for it and we had not we can't do anything. So I think that there needs to be some work done on third party inspections

which is one of the issues that is on the FAC agenda and I think they approved at the meeting so it will be adopted.

Right. I had to leave before they went

it will I don't know if you guys know that. Um and I don't know

there was that discussion.

Yeah. David Allen if you want to explain the rule um on third party inspections. Well, the problem is that they actually enhanced the ability to use third party inspectors in the last legislative session. They went the other way.

Yeah. They said you could use them.

Yeah.

And and Chair Starky and and board members, the challenge with the the the private party inspections is that any disputes are uh referred to the state for resolution. And that's that's the the big challenge that we have.

I don't disagree with you. I'm just saying that that that where the legislature went last year was to give them [clears throat] more things that they could do.

Well, we're the ones getting the blame online. So, letting you know that.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. Moving on to funding. Um we'll have one countywide issue. Uh moving forward with the decon truck uh for new decontamination program truck uh for fire rescue, $600,000. We have two projects that will um be for the East Pasco side. The East Pasco Emergency Shelter and Community Center requested for $20 million. It's $40 million project. We have a match of $20 million for that. And then the next project is the Robert D. Sumar Judicial Center enhancements. Uh requested amount.

Can I ask you a question, Rob?

Yes, ma'am.

On that East Pasco Emergency Shelter and Community Center.

Yes. Is this not something we're looking at getting some funds in another place and the from

quite possibly? Yes. This is for the design though. This is

We can't I don't think we can ask in another place if we're asking. Is that true? If we're asking here, can we ask in another place?

And I'm assuming you're referring to if we were to pull it from the federal dollars of the CPGdR.

Yeah. Um, that might be a problem, but again, it's design. It's not on the construction that we're seeking this.

I just want to make sure we're not shooting ourselves in the foot. That's that's all.

We got opioid funding we can look at next year, too. Maybe

not those numbers.

Not for the shelter.

Yeah.

Oh.

Um, I just want to be sure we're not

If it don't pass this year, we'll get

I'm just Do you know what I mean?

I get

So, we have to look at that.

We will look into that.

If it's if it's not approved, you're not supplanting it. I don't get

I mean you can try different sources all the time.

If we don't get the money that he is correct

we can move forward asking for it.

Can it be on both lists at one time

until it's actually budgeted for you don't have a supplanting issue?

Yes.

And don't like using that word but

I just I know this is important to you commissioner Oakley

and so I just want to help support it.

It's it's important the side of the county.

Yeah. It's it's really important, you know, count east side of the county, but countywide and also in a regional matter of the possibility of using it to help some folks in Pine Edison and Hillsboro County. When we have a terrible storm, they have to move out on the way out.

No, I understand all that. I just don't want to jeopardize

Yeah.

all the funding sources they have available.

The problem is I don't think you'll get two or two and three together. You're not going to get both. So, as we move forward, we will look into that just to address that. Uh, the next one, as I said, Robert D. Sumar Judicial Center enhancements. Uh, we're asking 12.5 million. Overall cost is $25 million. Uh, we do have a match of $12.5 million on that one. [snorts]

Um, so we do have a match on the East Pasco Emergency Shelter.

On the shelter?

Yes.

On the shelter. Um,

you said we have a

we have a match of $20 million that's already worked into.

Yeah, Rick

under Keith Wy

correct parks. Uh, so Central Pasco uh projects Range Boulevard extension um we're going in for design uh requested amount we're asking for is $4.5 million. Uh total overall project cost is $129 million. Design cost is $11.8 million. We have a match of $7.3 million. So actually more uh that we're providing for that one. Next one is Shady Hills um road sidewalk project. We originally asked for the full amount of 3.5, but we were able to get a match of $1.5 million from Penny. Uh so we're asking for $2 million for that one.

Sure.

Yeah. Uh Ralph.

Yes, sir.

Please coordinate with um we go back forth with Megan Harding and the school board's wanting to partner up on seemingly I need to get an update from Megan, but help support number five. I don't know in what what capacity, but they're they're excited about this.

I think once we have it uh finalized and we move forward and I can go to print, I will get with uh the school board and uh make sure they are aware. it is one of our priorities and we have sponsors and uh have them when they're up in Tallahassee support it you know push for this

or preliminarily they're

they will yeah same way with PEDC is also in support of the shelter project just so you're aware moving on to the west side we have sepine septic to sewer um we're it's a $9 million project we're requesting uh $5 million so we able We have a $4 million match in there on the construction and um our only water project that we have. So we'll have two transportation silo projects. Um the two in the uh central uh this would be a water project. Uh then we have general government projects with the other three projects I discussed. And that concludes your legislative agenda. If you're good with that, I will, you know, go back in and um check on that CDBGDR issue uh as we move forward. But again, it's contingent upon if we get the funds as you brought up, Commissioner.

Okay.

Doesn't need a vote on this. Um

other questions about this, guys.

So, I'll just move forward with our uh to go to print. It will be ready for the delegation meeting on November 10th. Since we already had the workshop, uh that could just be short and sweet. If I have it printed up, I will make sure that's distributed at the uh delegate delegation meeting on the on the 10th. Um and now I if while I have the floor, I did want to uh talk about calendar issues and when we go up to uh lobby uh our issues so we can start planning for travel. Just this will be really quick. Um so session starts um Tuesday, January 13th. That's the second week of session. That following week, normally what we do, FAC meets that following week on uh Wednesday, January 21st. Um Commissioner Mariano, Commissioner Star, I'm assuming you will go up there for that. We've normally piggybacked off that recommendation from our our lobby team was we don't do that while we're competing with all those people. Um, so we won't go up there at this point in time. That does not stop you all going, but we'll probably refrain from you can do popins, but we won't set up actual meetings to discuss uh our priorities until a later date. That third week is Florida League of Cities. They go longer than one day. Uh they're there from Monday through Wednesday. Um they finalized on Wednesday, January 28th. That's now also the date of Tampa Bay Day. So, we can go up and participate in the reception. Uh, that'll also be Hillsboro Day where they have the sandwiches down in the courtyard. U, but again, not recommending that one. I recommend that we then go up the next week, February, uh, first week of February. You have a board meeting on February 3rd. Um, that will also be the day of the Greater Pasco Chamber Pasco Day in Tallahassee. They've expanded the participants in that to the school board to PHSC president's committee and one other group. So they will be up there for the day uh and then doing the reception like they did last year.

What are you suggesting?

So that's Tuesday, February 3rd, but that's also a board meeting. But what I'm going to suggest then is we then go up Wednesday

on my calendar.

Wednesday, February 4th. Uh we would be able to do some meetings in the afternoon uh and then all day Thursday. So stay two nights, Wednesday, Thursday night because we don't want to cram them all in. This is when we'll get no longer delegation, the appropriations chairs, the speaker's office, the president's office. So they said to be more flexible if we could give them a full day. So give them the full day of February 5th if possible. So that's what I'm going to recommend. Wednesday, February 4th. Drive up.

Some meetings in the afternoon.

What about you guys?

No, fourth. Fourth. Fourth. You got a board meeting on 3rd. That's why I'm

on my calendar. I don't.

Well, you do have a board meeting on the third.

Yeah,

Madam Chair.

Yeah.

So, when I think about we talked last year with Tempe Day that was up there, three counties. We've got working working relationships going with them.

We've got one county that's putting up for the gas tax as well. I'm just wondering we're not better aligned with the regional group and trying to set up some regional meetings too.

I can I expand on that? Go ahead.

So when I talk to people about trying to get like things approved and in front of there, I say do everything while you're here because when you're in Tallahassee, they meet with so many people. It's 15 minutes back toback and it's like speed dating.

Sure.

So they don't remember really anything you say. when they're when you're here and you have a captive audience, they write everything down. And in Tallahassee, it's just everything's a blur to them. It runs it, you know, they're 13 14 hour days those days.

And again, why I'm recommending this by then they'll have the the budget kind of hammered out. Uh they're looking at the uh going into conference February 27th, 28th, that weekend, so they can finalize it. So, I think we'll get him at the right opportune time uh where it's just us and there's I mean there'll be other people up there, but not like we're competing against other counties, legal city, right

or the regional uh issue. That's

again recommendations from our our lobby team as well.

Madam Chair,

yeah.

So, and I agree with Commissioner Jagger about the when you're up there that thing speed dating, etc. It's not something we're expecting them to remember. All log ground work's got to be done ahead of time. And I think we've done some of that already. By having this thing already, getting it set up ahead of time, I think is good. That's the key. I think just going up there, frankly, if every other legislator's got someone knocking on the door and they got signs up front, they're posting social media here, there, we're giving them good exposure, I think,

that shows they're meeting with their people and I I think we're helping them in that regard. Do I think it helps with any particular issue? Absolutely not. But I think it's it's good to go up there when others are there while everyone else posting away. So

I think but to Ralph's point, I think it's quality, not quantity. Like we'd have more quality time in Feb, right? February. Yes. I I I'm for the beginning of February.

February. Yeah. And and again,

I can't go. I I'm out of town the week before the February or the Tampa Day. Tampa day.

Yeah, I get it. Okay. So that which is the last week of January. So those who want to come up, it's not, you know, and participate uh we have not discussed. I'm assuming that they'll want us to try to uh help out with that and and offer like we did last year um the um sports gross uh beer and the the kumquat pie. Um so I have to get with our tourism to see if we're able to do that again this year um to help with the reception. Uh but um I mean again that's up to you all if you all want to participate and go forward. They really didn't have that discussion the other day at the uh tri county they just said and the date it is

and I'm sure one of the lobby firms will host us and

exactly. Exactly. So, so again, I think we're going to get more, hate to say this, bang for our buck if we go up on this awful geek uh in February where there's not a lot other local governments up there competing uh and we can get a little bit longer time.

Yep.

So, I will circle back then tomorrow with your staff, make sure we have that on the calendar, and we try to get two days like reserve rooms for two nights. But I I want to talk about Washington,

okay?

And I want us to be sure that we are also going to Washington. Um and we need, you know, to talk about a list of things that we want to do there. But listen, that's where big big money is. And we need we need to visit with some I think transportation, um maybe army corps. I I just think we have to make the rounds up there, too. Um HUD potentially. Um, have we been successful in uh trying to be able to use uh some money for EOC and um that's to the county administrator. You know, where are we with that? Um we want to talk about the inmate and commissioner, you were out and I don't know if you know this, been working on this with no for a number of years. If you get arrested and you go to our jail

Yeah, I know.

Yeah. We pay all the bills. I mean, we had Marco ready to work on that, but now he's not in that role. So, we need to visit Ashley and help her to um you know,

and I hear your point on that one. Um so, so again, I think as we're growing, we are finding more issues that we are dealing with when you though compare us to like a Pineel, a Hillsboro that have military bases. They're going up there a lot with the Pentagon, with military. We don't have those types of issues that they're dealing with. um they have really big DOT projects that they've already been approved and are working on. One of our things where we were active was with Army Corps of Engineers if as you well remember uh with Ridge Road. Um but we are growing and we are seeing that we did have that opportunity when we were uh in Washington on Niko to bring up going back to the point of do we have other funding sources for the shelter. We are currently working on if they can get a budget passed, but they are still in in a a holding pattern up in Washington to go back in and change the universal notice on the funding we got. Um, which would allow us to use some of those dollars for the shelter currently.

Shelter or the EOC center?

Shelter.

Shelter. Okay.

Because currently they don't allow you to use it for the shelter.

EOC.

EOC. Yeah. So, we're working on trying to get that language adjusted. Yeah. On there, but um

we can work that out again as we we prepare for for NATO. Uh and maybe work around that week.

So, when is N when are we in you know when we're in Washington? NO is not necessarily maybe the best time.

February 21.

February 21. Yeah. The end of February.

Okay. I just

February 2124 is right.

Legislator.

Yeah. I never heard that one. So, yeah, you're right.

Okay. I got to look. All right. So, I I just want to plant that seed and that discussion.

Appreciate that.

All right.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

Okay. Um we are to commission Commissioner Oakley.

Okay. Had a couple of meetings this month. Uh first picture up would be the we've had a tour of the new jail. Miss Jagger and her group came along with myself and Alex and

[laughter]

others that would lead us through and make sure we didn't get locked in or locked out. So, but um quite amazing tour. Um I wouldn't want to live there very long. So, at all, [laughter]

but uh but it's a well done jail. I think from I haven't toured a lot of jails, so um even in my younger days, I didn't tour any. So, thank goodness. But, uh, it's very well done. And I think, uh, the county and the citizens of Pasco County, of course, brought this about and their vote when we did these referendums back, I don't know, it's four or five years ago now, I guess, or could be longer.

2018,

but the citizens approved this. And uh we didn't get the biggest bang for our buck because inflation started about the time we were voting on the amount of money we were going to set the bond for and it only allowed us a little over 600 600 beds rather than a thousand which we were aiming for when we first started project. So but after that then we had last Friday we had the tri county meeting and so y'all left me all alone. I was on the phone. Yeah. But I'm so glad these guys alone. So I had to tell them about my district, [laughter]

which is half county, and let them know that since y'all trusted me so well that I was able to take care of y'all's half of the county also on that day. And uh they trust me, administrator trust me just enough. He made sure that uh our county attorney, Jeff Stein Center, was sitting right next to me. so I wouldn't make any bad moves, but uh but it was a good meeting. Um I did talk uh Mike with uh Mr. Edgars from Pine House a little bit. He would like to see and I think I would too a little more u meeting the material that we're going to go over and talk to about to be more meaningful for the counties and and start, you know, getting into working things. uh you know in a pri county issue like that. So I thought that was good. Uh I think we had the same thing because some not that it was hum drum but it was just kind of a normal things. It was quiet and not much talk to but there's a lot of projects that happen whether they happen in our county or or ours in another county. Anything that helps transportation going through these the three counties, Pineell, Hillsboro, Pasco, anything that could happen will help all of us because we all travel these three counties quite a bit. So, anything in transportation, I know you all have to agree to that anything like 301 getting we made that as an example the other day is only a small portion of widening four lanes of 301 going into Hillsboro County. uh is not as much help to us, but it the total help would be great because it goes all the way in Hillsboro. Most of the money would be spent in Hillsboro County on that on that project. That's okay. It helps us all. So that's the type projects we need to work together on.

Yeah. And that's all I have.

Did um any of the projects come up from and I see city of Tampa was not invited. Um I I really think we should, you know, especially when we're in Hillsboro County, invite maybe the mayor and the president of their council.

Well, there was some discussion regarding that. So, I'll be having that conversation with the other two.

So, did any of the the you know, the federal grant that the region got for transportation stuff, did was any of that discussed? No,

I didn't hear it when I was listening. No, see, we could have discussed stuff like that.

Well, that's what I mean. I mean, we didn't discuss some things like that, but

um

it just so happened the last three uh chairman of Tampa Bay Water spoke at the last of it. We got into how we would work together and help each other. So,

and was the uh um I was on the FAC executive council call for the first part of your meeting because otherwise I I was in on a phone there by Commissioner Edgars. Um did you meet the new CEO of the airport? Yes, you spoke to us.

I have not met that person yet. Yeah.

I mean, you know, it would be great to hear spoken,

you know, what's happening at the airport, what's happening at the port,

what's happening at some of our big assets. I mean, regional

Yeah.

regional issues. How's the dredging of Anklo River going? That would be of interest to all of us with um and to quit messing up our scallops. So, when's that going to be over, right, Jack?

Okay. So, I mean, we need to listen to what big projects are happening in other counties and what big projects we have going on.

Yeah.

And then just a uh a little update on on Tampa Bay water. We discussed um the possibility of uh drought coming on because we haven't had any rainfall lately. when we did get it back and of course the storms and all help fill the reservoirs and all that. And then this in the spring the rain we got did help us fill the reservoir and we were already approved for our 90% of taking the the higher flows and above minimum. We were able to take that 90% and that helped fill it up during that time.

Yeah.

And uh now of course there's a lawsuit out against from Poke County against Tampa Bay water for

Oh. don't want us to take 90% out, but we're all downstream. So, it it doesn't it's hard to figure out what they would be taking because they're at a very minimum rate because they're the headwater instead of

I thought we were.

No, no, no, no. We're we're at the end. We're not not the headarter.

It comes from Poke County.

Yeah. So, um but we had our permit for 90% that's helped us quite a bit. it'll help us in the future. So, but um other than that, we did we did uh say, well, we're going to come out with a caution or for uh sprinkling water yards, things of that nature, but we want to handle that with kid gloves because most time when you come out and said, "Oh, we need not to water or cut it from two times a week to one time." People think we're out of water totally. and and there's no issue like that whatsoever. So, we want to make sure that we don't confuse people being out of water and and being conservative of the water we have. So,

I always have it on once a week and unfortunately my husband turned it off for what was to be the rainy season and now I've lost my grass yet again in the front of my house.

I lost my grass too. I'm so sad. My bushes all of it.

Yeah. This is the fifth time I've redone it. I I want to do fake grass if my neighborhood would let me, but I don't think that would work.

I did it on my boat house and I absolutely love it.

This paint.

All right, Commissioner Waitman.

Yes. Thank you, uh, JJ and your team for hosting, Commissioner Mariano. And I uh I was one of those guys that mosied into a freezer or refrigerator and it it it locked.

Oh, no.

And it [laughter] got cold pretty pretty quickly.

Wow. And uh sometimes those key cards didn't didn't work uh on our on our on our tour. So um don't be too curious in a in a jail, but no, thank you all for for hosting us. And um so for committee reports, we had uh David Allen filled in for Mike. Um EDC kicked off and um they have a new structure this year for their budget. Don't know if you want to talk about it or anybody but so they they have enough enough money they'll operate 12 months but within then we'll have to renegotiate uh next budget cycle on uh EDC's budget uh and it switching over to you know KPI indicators and

a good thing

um more of a what you say Mike almost annual

yeah more of a performance based

performance-based uh model for for funding I mean the vast majority percentage of their funding comes from the public side. So, um until that changes, I I think that

You mean from us?

Yep.

Yeah.

From the public from the public uh pocketbook. Um so, we're going to change some structures a bit. I think for the better, but Mike, you want to touch on on kind of where we where we landed. Bill was complimentary over over it. uh and the board other board members had some pretty good questions uh mainly about the the lending program and that sort of thing, but everybody seemed to be good with it.

Yeah. High level and I I've had this conversation with you individually in your briefings is that um you know actually this consent agenda you you approved a quarterly flat budget with with a modest increase for salaries at three and a half% just kind of similar to what the board did for for us. Um, and in the meantime, our team is negotiating with the EDC on key performance indicators and what types of things we think that they should be doing in order to advance. Right? So, we're turning the page to the next chapter of of what economic development council will be doing for us here in Pasco County, going beyond anou to more of a contract similar to how we handle all our vendors. And so, Mr. Cronin has embraced that. The team's embraced it. and uh we hope to have something by the end of this year back to the board to level set and reset um how we're doing economic development in the county. We're excited.

Yeah. So, is there anything thoughts as we move forward? I you know, please share your with Bill or Mike and um there's other measurables that that you all think we need to be looking as far as jobs or industry. Um now's the time to do that for to prepare for the next year. So, it's pretty good meeting overall, wouldn't you say, David Allen? Yeah. All right.

Where are you meeting these days?

Uh, well, it's varies.

So, sometimes over by the um

a lot of them are at North Point in the area

by the veterans. Um, at the hotel there is pretty much where we're meeting most of the time.

The hill.

All right. Are you done?

Mike gets there in about two minutes. [laughter] I can leave my house before it starts.

Yeah.

All done,

Commissioner Jagger.

All right, I'll be super quick. So, this was Matteo. He was a student in Lando Lakes and he shadowed me for the day. So, it was kind of cool. He loved talking to Joanna all about government. He was in the meetings. He asked lots of great questions and um he went to the MO. He had a meeting at um the school board which he took part in. So it was a great experience for him. He will be doing something in government one day. So okay, that's more of that's more of Matteo.

Jonah is someone you can mentor. [laughter]

Um this was uh the United Way and just celebrating everything that they do um in our community and also their partnership with Pasco County. They're providing infrastructures for uh the trailers that um hopefully we will be giving them. Okay. Oh, and I won't go into detail because everyone talked about the jail, but I did bring my son Josh with me. So, um I made my one phone call. Brad did not answer. I was kidding. [laughter]

That's funny.

All right, go ahead. Next slide. [laughter]

Uh so, this was uh before the board meeting in Dade City, and this was um one-stop shop. So basically, uh, they have everything that somebody can come in, whether they've been, um, a battered woman, they're homeless, a veteran, a teen, they have everything there. So, I know they were lacking in resources over there. So, I asked her if she would come and do a pickup on the west side. And I think she thought I was joking. I said, "You're gonna need a truck or a trailer or rent a U-Haul." So she calls me and she's like, "I'm almost there. My truck broke down." I was like, "Oh, well then don't come. Just come another day." She's like, "No, I'm almost here." And then when she saw everything we had for her, she goes, "I thought you were kidding." She said, "So she goes, I have to come back next Wednesday, so tomorrow." and she's renting a U-Haul, but they had this grandmother who literally had nothing in her house. And we're providing a kitchen table, stuff for her kitchen, a full living room set, a headboard, uh things for her, bathroom. I mean, basically a whole house setup we're we're giving this lady on Wednesday and and we gave her clothes and she was just so thankful. They even have an outdoor garden and I had a massive box of seeds. So, and little watering cans. So, the kids when they come to their event, they'll have little watering cans and seeds. But I told this lady, I was like, "You can come every couple weeks for a pickup." So, she was she was very thankful. So, um Okay. All right. Are we Where are we? Okay. And this was uh just uh the clerk's um empowerment room. And if you haven't uh been, Commissioner Starky and I went, it was very beautiful, very moving. Um out of our storage unit, I have some um kids items that we're going to be donating to uh the empowerment room. So, I'm super excited about that. Okay, next slide. So, this was my my veteran Bob. I don't know if you remembered him from the storm. He was the one where an hour later he he would have died. Well, he ended up having a stroke. And anyway, so I went to the hospital. He didn't remember any of his information. So, thank goodness he um was able to um he's able to talk a little bit. But I told him, I said, "You're so hairy. You haven't had a haircut in a year." And he would not let me give him a haircut. So, I joked. I said, "Since you can't really talk a whole lot, and you're in the hospital, you're going to get a haircut." So, Miss Pam came over and trimmed his beard and gave him a haircut and he was so happy to get haircut. So much better. So, um, we also cleaned his trailer out at Pasco Hope. So, very thankful for CHA Catholic Charities, uh, for hosting Bob for so long. They were amazing. One of the employees I want to bring back to recognize him because he just went above and beyond. So, um, next slide and then I promise I'm done. Oh, the one with the cat. Oh, yep. Okay. So, I my hurricane I'm showing you this cute picture just because there's a story behind it. So, you guys know all my little my my people from the hurricane that I follow. Well, this young lady, I

um she truly has nobody. She doesn't have neighbors. She she she has nobody. So, um I was trying to help her get a job a couple weeks ago and she had a setback and she was in the hospital. To make a long story short, Thursday night, I got a text message that basically she wanted to commit suicide. So, she reached out to me and um I reached out to the Bayare team and basically I said to her, "Hey, if I have somebody at your door to to come help you, will you go?" And she said, "I won't leave my cats." So, I said, "I will take care of your cats. How can I get in?" So, she told me she would leave a sliding glass door open. And anyway, those are the pictures of of the cats that we took care of. But the the bigger the bigger thing for this is the the takeaway is that whether it's mental health or a storm, people are concerned about their animals. And here this lady wouldn't have went unless someone would have taken care of her animals. So, you know, and and it I was I was honored to do it, right? She got the help she needed. I'm working with Kathy and her team right now. We went in there and I don't know if you guys remember, but I had a deathly allergic reaction to mold. Well, she had mold in there. So, like my throat started closing. I had to get out of there, but we're going to relocate um this young lady to Pasco Hope where she will get wraparound services, case management, and get out of the mold. So, it's a it's and Bayare is at her house now doing um uh a counseling appointment. So just, you know, keeping in touch, checking on your friends and neighbors, just really important. That's the takeaway for that. So, and that's all I have.

Excellent.

So, all right, Tina, get a couple pictures. Start with the uh video one first. I'm g start on a higher note.

Sorry, I just, you know,

No, it's all good.

I never

u Sorry, we'll go with that. So, we had a great convention down in Tampa. Um it's the Indian community had a group together people from around the country around the world all talking about different things. Uh I was actually one of the opening remarks speaker and uh very impressive everything that was going on there. They're trying to build business trying to bring business. Uh keep going next couple pages. There's no more stuff on there. Next page. And then this is a family from Oklahoma trying to locate to Tampa area and I'm trying to make him consider Pasco County. The really good AI stuff they're doing was was was incredible. Gohead. Next picture.

Wait, did you say AI or Indian?

AI. But they're Indian.

It's an Indian group to put it on.

Okay.

Is all all business people trying to bring people in from around the around the world?

No. No.

Is there a video?

Doesn't appear to have been attached.

What's that?

Didn't attach too big.

I won't tell you about

um Okay. So, couple of things. those

you know the the jail was very impressive uh great to see it's coming forward

and thinking about you know I know there's different things about how how can we make things better how can we improve and one of the things I was thinking about after watching all the news about ICE agents etc and the improvements we're going to make in the jail to make it fully accessible to use the whole thing so I talked to Stacy Jensen's this morning uh I had her send some information over and pull the email up so I can read it to you directly Okay, so Pasco County has 27 illegal aliens detained. One has had their case resolved and will be transported to a federal facility in the next 24 hours. There are 25 ICE holds, two border patrol holds, and I asked her for more question, but wish we could get from me for this morning. Uh, I have staff researching whether we have any prior criminal convictions, if the convictions were a misdemeanor or felony, and the current days in custody on state charges. I'll follow with the information as soon as compiled. So, I expect to have it ready for the next meeting. But, um, I think that if we have illegals that are here that have committed crimes and we should try to hand them over to ICE now if they're going to do some deportation, why do our taxpayers want to fund these people in there, especially we're paying $1.8 million to Ernando to house people out of county? I think if we can find a way to get these illegals out if they're going to be deported, let's move as quick. Uh, I did talk to Chase Daniels about because anytime we can get a um a convicted person out of here back to their country, if that's where they're going to go anyway, the sooner they go, the better, get them out of our community. So, if the board doesn't mind, I'll have a presentation or some more information for the next meeting about what we can possibly do to coordinate these things to happen now rather than us paying the bill. Um, on the red light camera, gentleman, I he this gentleman called me up and was talking to me. He's talking about different things. He's one of those guys that's a really good guy affected by the hurricanes. So, I got to talk to him a few different times. He told him about the red light cameras and he told me some things that he's printed out here and I just want to review them with you that bothered me because I never liked these cameras. I fought them when I was on the MOAC. Uh they delayed for seven years, but finally they made their way back. I think it was about five years ago we had a conversation with the city and they talked about, well, because we're in contract, we can't end our contract and we got to keep the red light cameras. we're going to look at getting rid of them. Uh that never happened. Uh so now as if and this is it's confirmed by James Myers as far as they are out of compliance.

What does that Yeah. What did he mean by that?

The picture the the the signage etc. is not where it's supposed to be. They've been told it's supposed to be on there. They haven't fixed it yet. So they're they're in violation. They cannot legally uh from what's told actually issue any tickets and they're still issuing tickets because I don't think anything stopped. I'll say that. I I'm assuming they haven't done anything to to stop anything down. So, our citizens are getting taxed uh or or fined for cameras that are actually not operating to the required standards as they continue to operate. And I think we we should take a stance because it's not just the city people getting these tickets. It's people in the county and in mine in and around. So, I think we should be doing something uh from from the county to say we don't want you issuing any more tickets until you've got this squared away. Why don't we bring this up at the NPO to um

I can but I don't I don't even wait another day because you know all these people are getting tickets right now. Once it someone pays a ticket right away it lessens the chance of getting it back. But either way they don't have a valid permit right now to do these tickets. I think we somehow should send them a letter to stop until they get their results whatever.

Another thing if let's say I'm driving your car and I go through the light you get the ticket

right? So there's no there's you can't even dispute

works in my family. My husband gets out.

You can't dispute the ticket because they don't show the person. They only show the license plate. So I'm super glad my Jeep is any points though.

So I think if if I if I if I could uh Jeff, tell me how you feel about this, but I'd like you to be able to send something to them about the board does not want you to issue things until you have a valid permit back on these red light cameras.

You don't have any authority to do that.

Yeah.

I don't I'm not looking for authority. I'm just saying as

well. But if you're going to have the county attorney send something that says you're out of compliance that I have to have something that says I mean

you can suggest it but you can't demand them.

No you can't demand anything. But I'm just saying I don't think you can

Why don't we try and bring it up with Matt at the MO?

It's another month away and meanwhile you get 30 days more worth of tickets are going out there with signs that are not done properly. So much so that the DOT has not validated them to get another permit. I mean, they're not doing it the way they should be doing it. We should take a stand for our people, I think, to say, "You're not doing it right. Stop until you actually get it right."

If it's DOT that is that that has the authority over the program, I would suggest that maybe board members want to call the secretary individually and say they're not happy with the program and let DOT shut them down.

I did I So, I did talk to Justin. I I don't know what what he I mean, how does he enforce something that shouldn't be done? Maybe I need to go to a state agency.

Oh, the state program state the DOT doesn't have authority in the sense of I would think to enforce a law. Who would enforce?

They would have a right ofway use permit or they're there probably exist in in their rightway.

I mean, that's what he he's that document.

He's saying that they're not in compliance with their DOT permit.

Okay. So, how do we get them to stop? So that would be the that would be

the secretary.

I think uh one of the members of the state delegation on a ride let me drive. [laughter]

Oh hey in real life.

We lived in city limits and all the tickets go to Brad. So he's lived it.

Yes. Yes. And he's not I got through that scene all the time

at all.

Yeah.

Well, that's a good time good time to to bring it forward. Maybe maybe we'll we'll have a conversation at the NO as well.

Yeah.

Um one of the thing I was talking to um Mike at my meeting yesterday as we briefed for the uh board meeting and I talked about something. Hudson Library is now being shut down. We're going to do renovations. There's a huge parking lot that's there. Part of it's going to get redone. The very front part of the front front of the parking lot is in pretty good is a pretty good spot for people to get to easy access to it. Anybody affected by hurricanes would be easy to get there. That's where they picked one of the places to be for a u a service for FEMA to be there.

Yeah.

What I would like to do like we saw at FAC where they had this modular home came in.

Yeah.

Showed what they could do, showed how much would cost. The only difference from the cost basis that we saw is they don't know what the cost would be for elevating from one home to another home. Uh, the other thing I saw at Scholarfest, we had brought in a local company here, the container homes. Our staff's been out there to look at it. They like them, too. I would like to have these two options out there for people at Hudson Library where they can actually have a modular home, have the container home, if there's something else that's applicable where people can look at like changing out those homes, raising them up, getting prices as we do, as we

are modular uh acceptable for the HUD money because some things are and some things aren't. They are, a matter of fact, they're in our plan as well. So, we we put it all in there. So, I think if we just have some options for people up and down the coast, they can get there. It's nice and easy. It's not going to affect any facilities, but I think it's something that if they can see what they could get, we can take a look

and make some ideas. Yeah. And let's say see if the people want to do it. If there's a big demand for it now, they got two things to compare. So they can compete on price too and make some decisions but help get this CDBGR money going and help people get back into homes that'll be without mold safer more.

You saying use the parking lot as a place where you can show some models. I I understood it to be kind of an expo, if you will, of here's some stuff. We would have to invite multiple vendors or something if we

if Yeah, if there's others out there, but let's say these two here would be comparable anyway. But I think the spacing is the key and then how do we make it happen from here, but just

yeah,

let's make it available to our people so they can see it.

And that's all I got. Thank you.

Okay. Uh county administrator.

Thank you, ma'am. Just a couple of things real quick. I just um again happy to announce that from the Pasco perspective, which was our internal art contest with our employees and their families, that the winners exhibits are now on display at the East Pasco government center. Uh so we're able to display 21 pieces of art from our 2025 winners and that'll be in place until January 30th. Just a great program. Just uh again, glad to promote it and to see the the interest continues to climb uh amongst our amongst our folks with the arts. The other thing that I want to mention is uh kudos to our corrections department team. They had received an unannounced inspection from the Florida Model Jail um standards group. Uh they passed with flying colors and and I'm happy to say that prior to departing that the inspectors commended the leadership uh present on their experience and demonstration of professionalism by all levels of their staff, the cleanliness of the facility as well as the efficiency of their organizational operations. So, just again, shout out to Chief Jenkins and the public safety team for everything that they do. Um um it's a tough job we ask them to do. Nobody likes it, but uh it's a it's a it's a good it's a good thing that they're doing out there. That's all.

Um county attorney,

I don't have anything. Thank you,

Clark.

Yes, ma'am. Thank you. I on behalf of clerk Alvarez souls, I would like to thank the board of county commissioners and the county for building the empowerment room. Uh it is a critical component of of safety for our community. I have a real world example that occurred yesterday. Uh the room just opened in Newport Richie last week and we had uh a victim come in with her friend and her uh abuser came in as well

and the victim and her friend were securely in the empowerment room and uh he was unable to get to them. Uh you know he he was filing paperwork so he had legitimate business in the building. Uh however, with coordinating with the sheriff's office and in the clerk's office, uh those those two women were uh safe throughout the time while the her injunction was being reviewed by the court and the sheriff's office was able to coordinate her safely out of the building without the abuser being aware that she left and he was subsequently served with the injunction paperwork. So, thank you very much

for building that safe space and we have them in both courouses now and they are critical to keeping our community safe.

Thank you.

Yeah. Okay. Um I attended the USF woman in leadership conference in at um USF. My gosh, that were you there? Were you at that? That was I mean, how many women were there? Five million. I don't know. That's probably the biggest event I've ever been to in Tampa. Um, it was packed and uh and um uh our speaker was very interesting. Gina Davis was our keynote speaker during lunchtime. I won't tell you what I did while she was talking, but she um you know, she started a film festival in Bentonville, which is very interesting. So, I looked that up, gave me some ideas. Um I'll bring those to you at another time. That's my rabbit brain working. Um, we had the 12th uh AMS Skills annual awards dinner. Um, thank you Commissioner Mariano. You were so so uh passionate jumping up there on that stage. Um, uh, we had um a full house and um, we had and that's uh, David Engel speaking there. Is he here? Um, I think at uh the next meeting I'll have David and Derek come um show you the award that uh Ampskills won an international award that Derek picked up for us. Um then uh let's see what else should I say about that. The um

the speakers, the stories. Yeah.

Uh the people there that were just showing appreciation.

Uh Peter Pzanski from from way back when still there loving loving what we've been doing over these years to help people get jobs.

Yeah. Um, one of our speakers was the president of NIMS, which is the National Instrument and Metal I don't remember what the S is. Um, but they're they're uh an agency that, um, gives out credentials. So, it's industry recognized credentials for uh, the people who go through our programs. Um, the other speaker was a former Bucks player, Frank Murphy.

Um, who, uh, Gus Barakis met at the White House. Um so he is uh very connected with the White House and um throughout the country uh working on um workforce issues and education issues for I think people who have some challenges in life that like he overcame them. Um so he has his own nonprofit and uh and I have his book in my car. Um very powerful speaker. Where was he from? Was he from the southern United States? I don't remember. But he's in jail twice in his life

and and people gave him some second chances and he took those second chances and made something out of it and was drafted and played

and it makes it his passion now to help other people and I tell you it inspired me so much I just couldn't sit there I just had to like talk a little bit and thank you for all the great work you did bring AM skills in and and all the

all the lives you've changed with that program. Yeah, it was uh we showed some videos of people who who um are employed in different businesses around the the Tampa Bay area and it was very impactful I think. Um so I also attended the empowerment uh grand opening. Um I am really glad to that we have that room and the artwork is absolutely amazing and um I want to figure out how to get the the bird that's taking off in the water. Um that was an amazing photograph. Um, look at that. So, this is Lillian. I got her card.

Yeah.

Um, I think she goes to my church.

Lillian Cakuza.

Yeah.

She has out of our hands gallery. She's

Yeah.

So, she's donating she's donating this artwork to both galleries. And she told me um the bird uh it's not one of these ones right here, but the photo of the um of the uh what's the bird with the red wings? The um What? What' you say?

No, no, no. A big a big water bird. Not a sandill crane.

Flamingo.

No, it's not a flamingo. Oh gosh, I can't remember the name of it, but it has red on its wings. Um it um she said she was the way she took her picture. It's interesting. She's sitting in the water

and um and she's standing so she could get an atwater shot, like a horizontal shot. and she said maybe it was a sand hill crane

or a heron or something

or it's not in any of these. It's it's a big picture all on its own. They unveiled it during I have a picture of it somewhere um that um that the bird she said she's learned that the bird poops and then takes off. So she sits there and she saw she saw the bird doing its thing and started clicking and she has an amazing picture of a bird taking off in the water.

I I'm going to get I'm going to buy a copy of that. So, um, but I'm I'm very glad that we have that and we keep, um, our people safe. Um, I had my harbors. Well, you had the jail tour photos there. I'm sorry. I wasn't able to I am uh going through a very stressful thing with my family and um, it's a dual citizenship thing. And I had a I got word the night before that I had to get up at 5 in the morning and drive to Miami for a 12:00 appointment at the Spanish consulate. So, um that's why I wasn't on the jail tour and why I wasn't at the um Tri County meeting, but I did I worked the whole way down. I did I did listen. Um so, thank you for my staff for going on that tour and I hope I can have one one day. Um Commissioner, I did um I did listen to Commissioner um Edgars talking about 54 and 41. I'm one of the commissioners he called. He said he contacted one of the other commissioners. I don't know who it was. Huh?

Wasn't me.

No. Well, he contacted me and I said, "Well, I'm so glad you're experiencing our pain." And when we're when we're working together at our TMA meeting, this is why we really insisted that we get 54 and 41. Remember, it wasn't on the the priority list at one time.

I'm very happy.

Push, push, push.

If you remember him, uh, he and Janet Long made the motion second to get that on the list.

Yeah. Yeah. So he got to experience I think we have a a true a true helper. Um he had told me that on the he had gone to Tallahassee to talk to one of the committee meetings on um term limits for commissioners I think it was and um and also districts commissioner districts. So I guess they're looking at whether commissioners should be districts only or elected countywide there. So we maybe we want to follow that. I don't know. Um but he stopped to see Chris Lavala in Gainesville and said that Chris um is doing much better. Um we almost lost him there. They actually had a plane come from Shance to pick him up flying back to Shance and uh but he's he's doing better but he's not out of the woods yet. But so that's in our prayer. They're going back to the HC HSLC. Oh no, that's that's not it.

No, no, it's a water bird. That's um it's some kind of heron or whatever.

Um I'm gonna I'll pull it up.

Uh this is my Harbor South Leadership Council meeting. Um we had Metropolitan Ministries speak over here. We had the parks department. Um the the under sheriff and code I say enforcement, but she says something different. Um great. Huh?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want enforcement. [laughter] And um thank you to all the staff that came out and um participated in that meeting. Went very well. Um then tourist development updates. Uh Florida Sports Coast probably welcomed the Lyn Lewis Foundation for their pink October games which is a women's flag football tournament dedicating dedicated to supporting breast cancer awareness. It is at Wiregrass Ranch. Um, we have the Tampa Bay Super Cup coming up. It's Florida Sports Coast three weekends. Juniors on 24th to 26. The boys will be October 31st from November 2nd. Girls November 14th through 16th. And this is a soccer tournament. So, this is a big one. They are all over the county uh during the soccer uh tournament. remind you there is a 5K, a 10K, and a fun walk run um at Starky [clears throat] Market on January 17th for uh John Hopkins All Children's. Um then uh this is something I want to discuss with us. I listened to the planning commission meeting um I don't remember if this was in a workshop or during the meeting and I thought John Moody came up with a pretty good idea. And if you remember when we were talking with our fellow

with our I know [laughter] uh uh with our legislators about the cost of us building sidewalks or roads when we have to deal with um either Davis Bacon or just the way our bid process is. If you heard at our workshop when I mentioned we wanted to put some um slow speed signs in the water in Gulf Harbors and my dock guy could do it for $600 a pole or something and the county bid was $10,000. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. So, um, apparently in Penllis County when their builders or developers are coming in and doing a project, if they can't build the sidewalk right there for whatever reason, they have them build it somewhere else that's on the the county's um, list of important projects to get done. And so, they can build them much cheaper than we can. So, I thought this was a really good idea and that we should explore figuring out how we can have our development community instead of giving us money and then we pay for it. Our money doesn't go as far. Let's figure out how we can use their money to build our network out quicker.

Can I bring up something?

Yeah,

sidewalk later. I meant to bring it up. I sent an

Mike, I sent you an email with David Ellen this morning about the sidewalks on um Fairwinds and Colony and from what I All right. So, the sidewalk wasn't built. I was out there. I took pictures and I showed it to you guys one time as we're coming in as far as like there was no drainage there. There was no sidewalk there either. And it looks like they're just going to pay us $84,000 to put the sidewalk in instead. Did you get a chance to review that?

Okay. All right. We'll deal with that next week. Commissioner, I did.

You did? Okay. Yeah. And and um I know that the engineering

Yes, that's it. Rosier Spoon

engineering group is is looking at um a couple of different options for building the sidewalk. I don't know that they have a schedule set yet, but they've already done some preliminary cost estimates, and part of that work was going to be bundled with um additional road improvements as well on Colony.

Okay. So, so we're not taking the money. They're still going to build it. No, we're going to take the money and then and then and then we have we have a larger uh county project um along the roadway that then will also build the sidewalk and apply those funds to

when we I think when we pay someone else to do a sidewalk, we pay more. Maybe it's I'd love to know. When we build it ourselves, maybe we pay less. But I think we need to explore this. Let's at least make sure, David, if you would. Let's go see what the final costs really are to what that sidewalk is. And if that 84 is the right number, so be it. But if it's not, it shouldn't be coming out of our transportation fun.

And I'm talking about roads, too. I mean, wherever we can push that off, let someone else build it, and it's cheaper than us going out to bid for something, I think we should do it until they fix that. Because

Madam Chair, we frequently do have developers build

I know

roads and sidewalks. The the the issue is they usually want to build the roads and sidewalks near their project.

You were there at the meeting.

Yeah. They don't usually want to build roads and sidewalks that don't benefit them. I mean they they don't want to build roads and sidewalks on the other side of the county because they don't benefit them. But if they have to give us money towards one uh because they can't do it for whatever reason, and I don't know what the reason.

I get I get your point, but they're mobilized at their site. Like there's a reason they want to build the sidewalks and roads near their site because they're already mobilized there anyway.

No, they're not going to want to mobilize 10 miles away to build a sidewalk.

But they didn't they say in Penelis County they have them do that?

Actually, staff said the opposite that Penelis County is not doing that. That's what they said at planning commission. But we can we can look at that. I'm just saying most developers are not going to want to mobilize their contractors 10 miles away to build something.

And how about this? If someone has paid in money to us instead of building a sidewalk, why don't we say to a developer, if they're in a certain area where I know it takes a little more work, if they're in a certain area where we want a sidewalk, hey, we'll give you the money and you extend it that we got from this other developer.

I'm just trying to avoid us going to bid paying more. We do that all the time.

Okay.

There's lots of MPDs we're approving on your agenda. We're we're doing that very thing where we're

we're taking money from one another one and adding to it.

We're we collect a prop share for one developer and this developer and then third developer builds the the improvement or we give them credits to extend a sidewalk or credits to extend a road. I mean, this is we do this every day of the week.

Yeah. I've had conversations with developers and their attorneys as well. Leveraging them to build our infrastructure gets it done quicker, usually cheaper as well. So, we every opportunity we have, we do take advantage of that.

I was looking a way to save a dollar.

Okay. Uh All right. I think we're journed. Thank you.