09.24.19 Pasco BOCC Workshop

[Music] morning everyone presentation at this time I'd like to call to order the workshop agenda September 24th 2019 uh if you would please stand for invocation to pledge of leaders oh merciful Creator your hand is open wide to satisfy the needs of every living creature make us thankful for your loving Providence and gr that we remembering the account that we must day May Faith Steward of your good gifts amen amen Al to the flag of the United States of America and to theic for it stands one nation God indivisible with liy and justice for all [Music] uh rad call Mam cour District Two commissioner Mo here District three commissioner starky here District Four commissioner Wells here District Five commissioner Mariano here district one chairman here uh with that I'd like to remind everyone this is a workshop there is no public speaking before we get started um we're glad to be here it's a great great location for a workshop and glad to be here and see quite a crowd that we have here today that's interested in our government and what we got going on today so um like brings a lot of good memories back to me my father and his family back in the late 30s actually moved from Georgia into the elfers area so I feel like I'm at home and back in the in the 80s I ran a Fruit Stand across from the uh um post office here in elers for about 11 years so but um there's a lot of history in this area and it's a great building they've remodeled and really really turned out nice here so with that um we will start with the development services yes sir yes M Mr commissioner uh we have two items on the agenda today um both of which are things the board has discussed at VAR points in the last several months and I think at the end of the day what we' like is some reasonably clear Direction Where We can go either write put together an ordinance process that you'd like us to do or not this case may be on on either one of these items and so I think both the county attorney and me would both prefer as we get through this to get some reasonably good guidance and so that we can come back to you in the next few months with either ordinances to adopt and or not depending on what the case may be on both of these so with that the first one will be led by Christy Sims from the county attorney's office and if you don't mind just wanted to mention the Pasco County Sheriff has shown up today so Chris Nako is here so I just might want to recognize him sir so commissioner we have should we have invite the sheriff to the table part of reason why we're doing this and anyone else you want from your staff I'm doing a radio show R it is appropriate for the Sheriff's Office to be at the table because this is uh uh Christy Sims CCO County

Attorney's Office senior assistant County attorney um the idea um behind expanding our registry Beyond just foreclosures to rentals and uh vacant properties has been something that has been floating around um both because of the needs of the Sheriff's Office and the needs of our code enforcement um Department as well as some of the other um challenges that we faced as far as the appearance and maintenance of properties in our counties I did draft an initial um registry ordinance um we're going to going to call it the at risk property registry which would include um things that people often refer to as the rental registry but it's it's that's a bit of a misnomer because we're talking only about um certain rental properties um and certain um vacant properties so I'm going to call it the atrisk property registry um what properties are at risk um in order to Define what should be included if the board does in fact decide to go forward with a registry requirement um these are the types of properties that are at risk um either for uh the county having to spend time or money um on enforcement and or maintenance of these properties um for having uh trespassers Etc but properties in foreclosure ore forclosure again we already have an ordinance that requires registry of these properties and under certain defined circumstances the mortgage holder has to um take over exterior maintenance of the property but it requires a monthly inspection it requires a local agent to be appointed Etc so that is the nucleus of our current forclosure registry it's operated by a vendor Pro Champs and has been for I think we enacted it in 2009 or 2010 if I remember correctly um another type of property that are at risk are properties that are owned by persons living out of the county it it's Common Sense we can't knock on your door and tell you what the problem is whether it's your alarm is going off whether it's you know you have people hanging out in your backyard that are tent camping whether is um hey this these tires out in front of your yard violat our ordinance Etc rental properties and we're going to talk more about this but um further into the presentation you're going to see that of all of the homesteaded properties in Pasco County um we are at a high as far as percentage of those properties being rental properties rather than um owner occupied uh properties um hotels motels apartments and RV parks where the residents don't have another permanent address those are at risk properties those are properties where the sheriff's office um just as a factual predicate spends a disproportionate number of time on calls um and those are also locations where there tend to be um substandard housing issues as well as property maintenance issues um same thing with rooming houses sober homes and similar residents um as well as mobile home parks where the owner does

not live on site um and finally any developed property without utility and electric service I'm going to go ahead and say right now um and this is a larger discussion for a different day but we have a number of um commercial properties that have been um vacant um there were sometimes we called uh called uh um ghost uh ghost stores or gray fields we have a number of uh commercial properties that are not in active use and they're not part of the normal expect real estate cycle where tenant Cycles in and out but they're just sitting there and while they may not be ready to fall down they are um costing the county they're costing the county in the form of advolum taxes because each year the value of these properties are going down they're costing the county in Miss sales taxes because they're not in actual use and they're costing the county in terms of time visits by the sheriff's department for vandalism visits by code enforcement for dumping etc etc and christe when there's a property next door it affects the value of the property next door as we saw with the Helen Ellis and the viability of properties next year it does I have been doing some academic research um one of the criteria for demolition is that something is blighted and a blighted structure is described as a structure which contributes to economic distress so I've been doing a lot of research and I have um absolutely that is proven through the research that when you have a vacant abandoned building that it absolutely affects the property value of the property surrounding it so we again I don't want to get too mired in this discussion because the um it it it's a fairly complex problem that needs uh a number of approaches but those are at risk properties for the purposes of today's discussion um how are vacant properties at risk trespassers big problem with trespassers um in this County the sheriff's office has uh a um process by which they try to get um trespass agreement on vacant properties so when they or their deputies out in the field encounter someone on one of these vacant properties they already have something on file from the property owner that says no one is supposed to be here so they can arrest them for criminal trespassing dumping um I I know that that has you know gotten certainly some media attention this year um uh commissioner Moore has um pointed out number of sites either on undeveloped land or on vacant land um in the middle of the county that are becoming dumping sites the west side has been historically um you know plagued by dumping on nonoccupied properties um vacant properties there's also a risk in in that there is a delay in reaching the owner in the case of an emergency such as a fire um a Breakin Etc um um no there's no phone numbers attached to the property appraisers website that we can call somebody up and say hey um you know

somebody's in your building what's going on um and further um public money is repeatedly spent to mow trim trees hanging over the public briadway eradicate dangerous conditions such as unsecured pools um we just took down our our demolition contractor just took down a vacant um mobile home that had more than 40,000 bees in it last week um the public money that is spent on vacant unoccupied properties um to mow last year was approximately $40,000 but it's been as high as $100,000 or more over the years um annually how are rental properties at risk first of all I I did meet with the central Pasco board of realtors and I was um was very educational for me um some of this I knew um and I'm I'm sorry I didn't introduce Patrick Moore who's sitting next to me who's the County's other municipal prosecutor Micah Tharp who's uh the manager of code enforcement and Patrick Phillips who is the operational manager for code enforcement but um as far as rental properties go um what I heard from the central Pasco board of realtors is is that the owner is often unaware that the tenant has violations on the property or the conditions of the property um they in fact may be struggling with a bad tenant but don't have they don't have the ammunition they need to evict that tenant or proceed against them under the terms of their lease um this information is of course available if they knew to come to the the the building and make a public records request and wait for that information etc etc but they may not have any idea that the sheriff's office has made 10 calls in the last three months regarding their tenants um second the sheriff's office is unable to determine the lawful occupants when they go out on call they have no idea with faced with a group of people who is the actual lawful occupant that is responsible for the conditions on the property allowed to be there allowed to make somebody leave the property Etc um code enforcement when they go out are often unable to determine which occupants are primarily responsible for property conditions and I'll let um Mr Moore explain to you you um a little bit more about that because he is handling most of the the citations that run U wash in and out of court of which there are hundreds if not thousands a month is that correct that's correct yes so Patrick Moore assistant County attorney with the county attorney's office um so when we see repeated problems coming in through code enforcement and through the citation process we kind of sit back and try to evaluate what those problems are and uh and the rental properties tend to be a reoccurring uh issue and specifically with tenants and occupants as chrisy mentioned um that are in and out so that's part of the problem is we see reoccurring they go the code enforcement officer or the Sheriff's Office goes back out repeatedly and there's new

occupants or various occupants and very often they say hey I don't live here or they say I'm moving out and then the next group come in and so what we're seeing is we're seeing these tenants coming in and out repeatedly and then we have absente owners who may live in the county very often live outside of the county or even outside of the state and it's very difficult to to uh get in touch with those owners it's very difficult to serve those owners and try to hold them responsible um as as and and as the sheriff's office would know they have a lot of difficulty in uh uh you know identifying who that are tenants at the time who are responsible just because it's uh so often that they're coming in and out sometimes we have what people like to refer to as squatters coming in and out and may or may not be true uh tenants with an actual lawful lease yeah so I should explain that our goal in enforcement is to site and hold the person primarily responsible for the violation responsible for the violation our code allows us to site the owner for trash and junk let's use as an example um but if there's a tenant that has a lease that is the person that we want to hold responsible for that violation because they're primarily responsible both in the eyes of the judge and the eyes of the county for maintaining the property free of trash and jump we um however the sheriff's office or code enforcement will go out there and there will be five people and all of them will say I don't live here I don't live here I don't live here or one person will say I live here or I'm just stopping by I'm a friend of the owner I was the only one there with a driver's license so I was the one who got the citation we get them in the court and we get the I don't live their defense and it it's it's just a waste of everyone's time um the can I stop second yes if that's the case then why aren't we just going right after the property owner instead of trying to like tell you who the tenants are well one of the issues is when the property owner isn't local then we have a difficult time serving the property owner um so to in order for us to proceed um under a citation we need certain personal information of the person that we're citing um which comes off their driver's license their name date of birth sex Race So if they don't show up to court then we can have that KP is put into the FDLE database if it's owned by um Joe Brown in Pennsylvania we either have to hire a process server in Pennsylvania to go find Joe Brown and get that information um but again the judges want and we want the person who is causing the problem to be the person who was held responsible for the problem after a number of um times in court where we've had occupants that have you know been residing there but aren't taking responsibility for property conditions at that point we do try to at least get a hold of the property owner and say hey I don't know if you know what's going on down here but here's what's going on technically under the code you're liable

for this as well and sometimes that works in sometimes it don't it doesn't but we have no reliable method of contacting those outof County owners chairman yes just so commissioner Mariano is right on point um and you talk about both both the uh realators you know we met with talked about the owner you know them not being aware and the idea is to make them aware and the idea would be with this registry to help that process so we know who the owner is no matter if they're in state or out of state um because they should be made aware the first time and you shouldn't have to go through a bunch of loopholes so I that's the idea here is life safety making sure they're aware so they can you know because I've seen when we finally do make them aware which may take months they evict the person because they they didn't know all these things we com right um Christie some of what you were describing is um is the count to me is the county acting as the property manager and that's the whole problem I have with this process is if if you're in the business of renting homes you should be the property manager not the county and it shouldn't be incumbent upon the taxpayers of Pasco County to manage your business so if we're going out to someone's home repeatedly that's a red sign to me that the prop whoever owns that property is is not doing their job and and that's why I think there should be some kind of um escalating fee um that that um occurs at that time so yeah we're definitely going to talk about fees um I I I don't mean to paint every tenant with this brush um that tenants are less invested in maintaining their property but there certainly are some tenants that are less invested in maintaining the property um and landlords who aren't right on top of um um enforcing the lease Provisions that require the tenants to keep the property free of trash and junk you know um don't sell drugs no prostitution in your house again another topic for another day um but uh rental properties are at risk for violating a short-term rental um regulations um rooms that are designed for temporary habitation but are used for long-term stays defeat the purpose of minimum housing codes um there are minimum standards that uh we expect Property Owners to provide for people to live in or for you to provide for yourself to live in kitchens working toilets heat in the winter um roofs not falling down uh stairs that don't have um uh wobbly railings etc etc and when you are um when you have a a a group of people that are staying in whether it's an RV for example or a hotel those are not dwelling units that are designed for permanent habitation and they are not receiving um the benefit of the minimum standards that you know is expected for the standard of people dwelling somewhere um as I mentioned earlier the number of homesteaded and therefore presumably owner occupied homes in P county has declined since its peak in

2008 despite the fact that the number of residential homes has risen I'm a lawyer not an accountant for a reason I don't have enough fingers and toes to explain all of this um so Mr Barber with property appraiser was was um kind enough to uh get these numbers for me and put them into words because lawyers use words um the explanation which has been given to me um of the cause and effect has been um explained both by uh business person who's in the business of um residential property uh rentals and also um uh confirmed by Mr Barber and that is that after the crash many formerly homesteaded homes were purchased by investors and and now are being used by rentals those are just facts this is a pretty chart um that somebody made I can't explain it because I didn't make it um but what it says is what I told you before um the number of homes deaded properties we had a high in 2008 um I believe of 70,000 maybe and I'm going to talk percentages it's like 70,000 70% 132,000 so the in 2008 the percentage of um homesteaded properties was 53.9% um in 2019 it was 46% although there are um 50,000 more parcels and 20,000 more homesteaded Parcels so we have an increase in the number of residential and homesteaded Parcels but a decrease in the percentage of owner occupied Parcels so we're now less than half owner occupied M chair yeah thank you quick question um could those numbers be skewed a little bit because of the of the building that's going on now so think about the number of of new homes that are being built in that inventory that's sitting or still has not been obviously um the contract hasn't been um finalized with a new property owner that could also I think skew that right I I absolutely am% Poss yeah Mr Barber made it clear that the further we go back the less reliable the data is but it's definitely a downward Trend um the the economic PE economics people have expained to me um and y'all are business people so you probably understand this intuitively that at a certain point you reach a balance where it's cheaper to buy and build versus rehabbing leaving you with a stock of vacant older homes vacant older buildings um commercial Etc so I'm just saying that the trend is something that we're we're not getting people back into homes and the result is overall a higher percentage of rentals than we've had in the past than Mr chairman yes I think a lot of the problem was when when the crash happened and as our population age let's say in e in Western Pasco you've got people that are they're here 40 years ago well they're 100 years old now if they're still around the replacement people are coming in are families that are renting instead that are buying there's a lot of outside companies come

in and bought up all sorts of real estate when the market crashed and now they're renting them out and I think a lot of this leading the problems that we're having that they're just a corporation running it through and I think that's where we see these numbers are dropping uh I think central Pasco Wesley Chapel Trinity is a different game but West Pasco Embassy in that whole area there a different s holiday too and that's that's why you know rental properties they don't take care of the property their homeowner does period and that's where you have lot of these issues right I I've already mentioned this but this um Paradigm leads to several enforcement dilemas first of all the occupants that we want to primarily hold responsible for maintaining the exterior of the property often disclaim or refute occupancy in court and the owners that are primarily responsible for the conditions of the structures such as minimum housing violations you know the roof Etc often fail to respond to legal notices when not personally served and when they're not local that is difficult and expensive the direct goals of a registry ordinance um are to obtain direct contact information for the owner um to have non-local owners designate local in count agents or property managers authorized to accept service of legal notices this is some something that we require as part of our foreclosure registry if your um if if registration and certain conditions are triggered under the Foreclosure registry you have to have a local agent that we can go to to uh serve warnings or citations on um we want to increase our successful warning and serving of legal notices um if if the person that has the ability and authority to fix a problem doesn't know about it um and then then they're not going to fix it obviously um I I will defer to the PSO um but one of the direct go goals of the or ordinance registry um is to provide that agency with information that they need on calls um so I I'll defer to sheriff NOCO to explain that and as well as um this was actually a an idea um that came um out of the meeting that um Chase and I had with uh the central Pasco board of realtors again to integrate and increase the trespass agreement participation for V vacant properties so um Sheriff appreciate it thank you uh commissioner wellis brought this to you um while back and I like thank all commissioner chairman for um your work on this and Christine and Patrick appreciate it because you know a lot of time is going on putting this together and I know the Realtors because we've gone to Realtors a couple years ago talking about this issue and they were supportive in the fact that they understand because if you got crime going on in these rentals this deteriorates all the properties and they represent homeowners some you know trying to buy and sell their houses and

if you have a house in that neighborhood that's consistently have crime going on that's a problem it deteriorates the value of those houses so you know go back to the core of what this has and why we support the way it's structured right now is you know owner name and contact local contract um con a local contact within the community an optional for if you want to add onto it a lease agreement or an optional if you want to add on a trespass agreement so I'm going to just give the story of what our deputies deal with consistently in the community so there could be a a drug house a house that's a chop shop where they're doing work out of and the deputy where law enforcement Public Safety we're consistently getting calls there so we go out there and we're trying to deal with that issue deal with that issue eventually we're able to make an arrest you make an arrest you know everybody on that block is cheering wow this is great the Sheriff's Office showed up thank you you know we're not going have this problem anymore two days later say their cars are back again what happened well the guy's in jail but the crime's back and so we said the issue is somebody just moved right into this and it could have been rental somebody just went right in so the problem for us is we can't identify who the homeowner is who actually or the the owner of the property to tell them this is what happened you have a problem at your house the other issue is and this kind of goes back to the trespass agreement there could you know if a person is out of state and they don't know who the rent you know the renting to somebody they think oh I have an agreement I'm getting x amount of dollars per month they just see that money come in every month they don't know what's happening well the person who was the original who they thought was renting the place is no longer there there's other people at that location and it could be two or three people moved from the original person there's crime consistently going on and we're going back to it and so it's interesting a vast majority of time when we call the owner of the property and we say do you know what's going on here they're like we have no idea we were getting the checks but we had no idea this is going on and they said do you know everybody in your neighborhood basically wants to find you and hunt you down because of what you're doing they're like we're so sorry if we knew we could take care of it and that's really what we're trying to do we're trying to get to the rude issue because we can't always arrest you know arresting the individual doesn't solve the problem it's the environment where the crime is going on so if you know people can get in we can identify have somebody who can actually fix it which is the either homeowner or the property manager that's responsible and they say we had no idea well all we want to do is give them the idea the other side scenarios we deal with are you know we find people deceased in a house if we find somebody deceased in a house we roll up you know fire rescue comes we

try to save that person but we have a vacant home deputies could be sitting there for hours trying to find out who actually is responsible for this house because if it's a rental if it's a homestead you know those are different but because there's usually a loved one right by who's going to come but if it's a rent on to somebody who's out of state we're trying to lock up that property we're trying to secure that property and so those are those type of issues we deal with so the way it's formatted now I appreciate it because it actually gives us the tools that we need to help make the community better and partner with e it's the business owner the property manager whoever it is because we can work with and identify who them are who they are more readily because the way it's going right now we there's a lot of resources spent trying to track people down and especially if they're out of state that causes the biggest issues chrisy yes on on this registry um say you have a house and it's rented but the owners the owners of the property actually are out of state so you'll have their name on this property as the owner who to contact but you'll also require someone to be registered that looks after the rental part of this property because what happens when the rental property it's rented for six bus that person's out are they going to have to be required to go back each and every time to put the new name of the person renting that house or that it's vacant that's one of the things that we need to decide today is how to structure this with respect to vacant it may be different than rental um so right now um it's drafted just as an informational tool and would require after um yes it would require as your tenants change for the information to be updated it would require if it becomes vacant for either 60 or 90 days I can't recall exactly um if it was then it would be required to be registered as a vacant property right so so me that could go back forth several times in a year on some properties it can it can absolutely who's who's going to keep up with the the bookkeeping opponent that's another thing that we're going to discuss is whether we do it in-house or whether we use a vendor because this is a very um administrative and it intensive task to manage a registry like this yes well go ahead with the sheriff answer that question I was say I can give you from our perspective and first I apologize commissioner starky for mentioning but honestly this sorry the radio mic is I can hear you I hear that's one thing I want to say I apologize but you have been probably one largest Advocates because trying to turn um Aras in our southwest corner around so I appreciate it because you are out there consistently um we may give you a star in a back B to go out there and do some of our work for us um and a gun [Music] yeah baby steps can I get in on that so um but I have my own but chairman um so a couple years

ago you're able to provide us the tools for a rental I mean for a false alarm registry so Our IT staff was able to pet a false alarm registry in place so now we're in a position that when people alarmed because about 8:00 in the morning when you listen on our radio consistently as people are opening up their business we're getting false alarms all the time and so we're trying to respond and so that's been able to help crack down those alarms on that same database and same platform we're able to create that registry so there'll be no cost if somebody would want to if this is be able to be um voted upon and pass that people will be able to register on the same platform which would go to the Sheriff's office right so we've talked now Mr because I don't see this in here anywhere we haven't discussed this talk briefly about um eviction laws in the state of Florida because unfortunately this is my opinion is that those laws work to the advantage of the renter versus the property owner which makes it very difficult sometimes for folks and other some of the audience to actually be able to evict the people that are causing the problems right so now I know we might might not be able to fix that here that may be a discussion where we need to talk to our legislators to fix that law that is a detriment to these Property Owners well we actually can help that here okay so what can we do to help that one one of the indirect goals of the registry ordinance obviously we would discourage rentals to repeat violators and one way that we may be doing that is to have a sliding scale fee this is ridiculous by the way this is can't I'm sorry God made me short can we lay them sideways would they still work they were laying down sideways um but Ser we also um and this was we when we when we understood from the realtors that this was an issue we wanted to provide them a streamlined method to get the information that they needed the ammo that they needed so what we were talking about is sort of a checkbox an optional portion to the registry where they say yes if code enforcement is out there or yes if the sheriff offices out there I want to be notified because almost every lease would have a provision that says that you have to comply with state and local regulations obviously so that would be an option on the registry that would benefit the land owner that is struggling to evict someone and finally um notify and educate owners of vacant property about the conditions um some of the concerns that I have heard um either firsthand or or secondhand with an ordinance um is what are the costs going to be you're over regulating I only have you know we have one rental house boyfriend girlfriend each own a house move in together they're leasing one out I'm not the problem why should I have to register that sort of thing um some people have uh expressed concern over the privacy of owner's contact information obviously the information in the registry is a public record um the

way around that is if they don't want their direct contact information then they hire a um third party to act as their property manager um and local contact UM the cost obviously to hire a local agent or property manage for out ofc County owners but again this board has to consider who who should bear that cost should it be us um for managing that property as commissioner starky said us the taxpayers or should it be them the person that owns the property um and finally I had heard concern expressed that oh you just want the landlord's contact information so all of a sudden you can just start citing us because it's easier than citing the tenant that's not our goal that's not the way our enforcement works that's not what the judges expect to see see from us um I would not take a case nor would Mr Moore take a case to a judge regarding a trash and junk violation where we had not first attempted to go after the person that is actually causing the accumulation of debris so it's we're not going to skip over the occupant of the property in favor of the landlord technically under our code they are in fact yes both liable but our integrity is prosecutors requires us to find the most responsible person for the type of violation that it is the start um something that the public may not realize is that um too when when we um issue a violation and there's a fine the county does not get to keep that money it doesn't go back to the taxpayers here in the county it goes to the state so it's just money out the window when we are um um sighting people so if you're in a if you're in the City of Newport Richie cities get to keep their um or Their fines counties don't it's a little glitch that we have not been able to fix in Tallahassee so and the same with the sheriff's his finds I believe also right we we don't get tickets no matter what anybody says I know come know any tickets do not go to us yeah state to right yes the fines that result from County ordinances whether they're written by the sheriff's deputies or written by our Code Enforcement Officers or building inspectors or our utility workers Etc do not come back to us in fact it cost us money because we have a filing fee for each citation that's filed so having discussed the overall background um behind a registry for at risk properties I need direction I got I I I need at least three of y'all to come together on what this ordinance is going to look like um I I have drafted something it is a very basic you need to provide information type ordinance um there have been individual meetings individual suggestions every time I cross um commissioner shark's past she's like oh what about this I'm like stop I already did the PowerPoint um and there are apparent disagreements over certain elements that may be something that you want to include okay so I've tried to as instead of I've tried to to just ask y'all questions so you can give me some answers and I can take it from there and draft what you

want but should there be a minimum number of vacant or rental properties to trigger the registration requirement our recommendation is that particularly every single vacant property should be subject to the registry um now whether you you don't want to do that for rentals whether you want to say one or more two or more three or more that's a policy decision that youall need to make um but keep in mind that you can require registry and wave the fees for those people so while it would be an obligation for them to register um there may be certain classes of people that you don't want to charge to register such as somebody who only has one rental property or somebody who doesn't have a history of violations on the property or somebody who is a local owner that we're able to contact the um so I I'm going to default to my recommendation is that everyone who fits the criteria of registers and then we start making distinctions maybe in the fee schedule of who pays a fee how much the fee should be something like that I would I would think You' want to register everyone don't leave a gap where something follows through there and when you go to do something oh we fit in this area so we didn't have to register well quite frankly someone with two rental houses may just be as much of a problem as or more of a problem than somebody with 20 it depends on how responsible those people are M so um you know we want this to be as painless as possible I mean we're all about less regulation but we all see that the county there is a problem where where the county is acting as a property manager so I think we got to make get as cheap and as easy as possible for the vast majority of folks who there are no issues with you know I own two homes in the county I have one that's Homestead and one that's not um my mother lives um in the one in aresa that um and I spend most of my time in my Gulf Harbor's house so I will be required to register my house in ARA but you know what if something happens to my mom and someone needs to get a hold of me they wouldn't you know it they wouldn't have a number to get a hold of me so I I'm I'm okay with it and I don't anticipate any code violations um and so hopefully that's the only time I ever have to touch this um but you know I think it just needs to be painless easy and really cheap for the vast majority of people that um don't have any issues and I I've talked to say the folks at Burkshire hathway and I see Allen's here who managed how many properties do you manage couple thousand area couple thousand homes and and my understanding is if we set this up right is it it's just like an Excel spreadsh sheeet dump potentially if we do it right right so it's not shouldn't be something that they have to sit and type in you know thousands of names and everything we there is a way to transfer the information easily and quickly and cheaply because we don't want it to be a burden on um on the community Wales thank you chairman and I

agree I think think everyone should have to register um I know we've had issues with in my district and all districts where the person has one rental and that's the issue and we had ones where they have 20 and that's the issue so I agree um as far as fees let me just make sure I'm correct Sheriff's Office what you're doing at now um if you were going to do this there is no fees right yeah you're correct there's no fees and I would just like to add that we know of all Mr crumb's houses because they all have an Alabama Crimson tie football sticker and every house that he rents they all have that sticker so that's automatic indicator which houses he has but yes you're right they are they are free well and again chairman and and the board it comes down to life safety issues I know I've said I've said it over and over again I know we all are in agreement 99% of what this is but it makes sense to let the Sheriff's Office do it it does not cost the taxpayers any money um and I met with the vendor they do a great job with the Foreclosure registry they they really did a great job through it um and I appreciate them and meeting with me and I believe they met with all of us to kind of go through what they do and why and and again I appreciate it but I feel confident the Sheriff's Office can get this done at no cost all right so thank you chairman um you know the vacant Parcels of the scarious ones the squatters that can in ETC but sometimes you can have a situation where someone could be just finishing with a rental and maybe it's they get a good rental come in it might be two or three months before they're going to rerent it again I don't really want to pun those folks or jeopardize those folks to have to get that that burden if there's no issue with no history in the in the in the properties that are there um anytime there's been a vacant thing put them on the list keep them in there every step of the way I want you guys to be fully protected know one who's going to be there and these squatters for the Neighbors not have them infiltrate neighborhoods which they do I mean some people live in the woods they come in a house and go back and forth which I saw yesterday green key so I I know we want to protect that but if there's no history and someone's really just going from one leas to one the least that hasn't been a problem is it really vacant if it's just in between one leas or the other you have a time frame in yours for vacancy right well under this scenario because they're a rental period they would be required to register already yes so I was if you don't so Mr chairman if it would be the so if it's under your name your name's just on it anyway it's not necessary that we have to know you know if people are changing in and out you know the biggest issue from a public safety standpoint is that we know it's your property does that get back to what you're the issue with the because if you're talking about tenants coming in and out consistently well yeah we're

talking about just I'm just I think we're talking about bacon or is it bacon or rental everything both both and chairman if I could just since we're talking about this I know that sander and utilities the way it used to work in utilities was we would just get the tenants information we've got a lot of pass du not that all tenants are bad people um a lot of and then they had no they didn't know who the owner was to where now I know Sanders team is getting the landlord's information as well as the tenants information that way they can stay on top of who they need to go to if and when there is a p to utility bill which is helping and that would be something that would link right to the Sheriff's Office she could send that information over to them and then they can input that in which will help the process but in any case that was one of that was one of the issues that there seemed to be some disagreement or discussion about was should there be a minimum number to trigger and staff's recommendation is no that if you meet the criteria of of vacant or rental in the ordinance that you have to register and then we take into account some of the distinctions uh amongst these Property Owners whether they have just one whether they aren't violators etc etc perhaps in the fee schedule um the next there are there are well I had a question and this is where it starts getting tricky and we start getting into the details what are we talking about apartment complexes RV parks I mean what are we talking about with those kind of situations all right so um next slide is people who we probably want to exempt from the registration um or actually since we believe that the registration actually provides a service to these owners by have giving the Sheriff's Office you know direct contact information and things like that allow them to register but make it optional for them to register and that would be seasonal occupants um you know their properties are vacant for a certain amount of time but we don't want they're not a vacant property that is at risk necessarily we may just want to make them optional if they want to register and take advantages of the benefits of registration fantastic um mobile home parks with the owner living on site let me ask you a question about that though so when we how do we know if how are we going to um distinguish between a seasonal property owner and a rental property if they've registered or not we would have to contact them and ask them if they're seasonal I mean that that seems like that that's that's an IT issue they're going to register under certain categories rental vacant seasonal you know but what if we have a non-homesteaded property that doesn't register and they're not seasonal how do we know which type of then then we're going to have to investigate that's would you want the person that's uh has

a seasonal property want that owner's name all the time or whoever looks after that seasonal property all the time if I had a seasonal property down here I certainly you know would want the Sheriff's Office to have my contact information for the times that I'm not an occupying and inhabiting that property you may have that property rented for a month or you might have it rented for a week and then they're gone well if it's rented they they would be required to register sure this is for seasonal property owners who are not renting out their property while they're gone they're just closing it up I think you're making a loophole that a lot of people are going to jump into okay I just think careful about that Mr I just wanted from our perspective we're not going to be proactively going out there tracking out like oh like we got a black every by department so I see if you register that this is only in case there's an issue and then um one I thing you know County Administrator and I you know you brought up a very good point I just want to make sure it's clear you know as we say this is free you know there is work that's going to be done however what we what we perceive is that the workload on deputies in Patrol if we can alleviate their workload it'll cost us a lot less than it was just for it to be spending some time so yeah I just want to make sure as a great Point Mr RS brought up and I just want to make sure that's out there is that yeah what we see over the long term is that the workload on deputies trying to track people down and get them and find out who the owners are the property will save us a lot well and Mr Moore just made the point that perhaps I didn't explain this correctly if you have a seasonal property that you come to only during the winter that is not a vacant property you're just not there okay does that make sense okay no all right well I I'll set that aside and give it some more thought um mobile home parks this is a question whether these should be exemptions or optional registrants mo mobile home parks with the owner living on site condos RV and travel trailer parks that are otherwise in compliance with our regulations that means it's a true recreational vehicle park where people are coming and going and they're not staying for more than 90 days and their trailers and RVs are Road worthy and licensed and they're hooked up through quick disconnect Etc I'm not talking about a mobile home park that people have pulled in RVs and have renters that are staying there um I I'm talking about legit um mobile home parks I mean I'm sorry RV and travel trailer parks and then again the rooming house with the owner on site for example I own a house I advertise on Craigslist and somebody's running a room for me that's really not an atrisk property okay um another so what I got from what I got

from that is there seems to be some more thought that needs to be put in as to whether exempt seasonal Property Owners um from the registry or not um uh and I didn't hear any grumbling about any of the rest of them as far as exempting them but giving them the option to register um in position this is another issue that has I I I understand that there's not a consensus has not been told to me on whether we should impose an affirmative Duty uh uh Property Maintenance Duty on owners the way I have currently drafted this ordinance it requires provision of information and doesn't impose maintenance obligation on owners of of rental properties um but there has been um there's an argument to be made that the owner arguably should provide garbage service were available um question should they provide electric and water utility service and or Lawn Service as I mentioned we spent $40,000 mowing um some years as much as $100,000 mowing um can I can I add to that when yeah because this happens a lot in my district so when we're were when when we get complaints and the grass is too high on a vacant property um when the county goes out to mow it it is around $300 $400 for us to mow that house never to be collected again because we are lowest on the list when that property is sold we never get that money back so it is very very expensive for the county to be the lawn maintenance company well cost the taxpayers a lot of money and I'm sorry I wasn't clear these questions are with respect to rental properties because because the the owner is responsible on vacant properties for the maintenance and the Mowing and all of that but for rental properties this ordinance is not currently drafted to require the landlord to provide any of these services and another option is to require the owner to verify that the tenant has contracted for them I'm sure Mr Moore could give you more than a handful of examples of tenants charged with track trash and junk violations who don't have garbage service a lot in myct and tenants again who don't have regular lawn maintenance service so the question is we we actually affirmatively impose those duties on um under the forclosure registry if a bank has taken control of a property either by telling their mortgage e you know that you have to vacate if they've changed the locks Etc they have they are affirmatively required to provide Lawn Service they are affirmatively required to keep it free of trash and junk Etc so the question is is this something and I understand that there may be disagreement amongst the board and so I need direction do you want this ordinance to impose affirmative obligations on landlords to do any of these things chairman Mr W in my opinion I've said it again I know the sheriff said it too we need to keep this simple it's about life safety and eventually I feel

in the next couple years we're going to be have to deal with the garbage thing I think there's a way we can get that done I know we're kind of looking at it now to where everyone in the entire county has garbage service I think that'll be addressed in my opinion in the next few years or maybe sooner coming to this board I don't think it's fair for us to tell a renter that they have to have garbage and other people that maybe own a house don't have to have it I think when we do it countywide then that's one thing um and the lawn service I mean there's issues with renters and homeowners with that just just as many on both sides so I think we need to keep it simple the bottom line is life safety issues making sure the sheriff fire code knows what they're getting into that's that's the priority of this with this ordinance um Mr Mor okay I know the one thing we hear a lot about obviously on the day and I'll be honest I don't hear about as much in my district but I know we hear about some of the areas commissioner Stark has brought up around holiday in those areas has it's prevalent unfortunately when it comes to the garbage service my only fear is as a county I don't want to become an HOA you know I don't want the county to become a homeowners association and this looks like an HOA so I have some concerns about that I I I think I have some concerns about the validity and actually that holding up I don't you know in some of those areas too so um the other option would be to require the owner and it would be this would be a check box in the registry yes I have verified that the tenant has contracted for garbage service were available water electric Etc so that that's sort of the middle ground liutenant not going to have Water and Electric no we have them in my district question um this is where I think the the scalable fee can come in because we have on the books now an or uh rules that you cannot cannot have grass above what is it 12 in 12 in so if we have to become again the acting property manager to say hey your neighbors cuz we're a reactive code enforcement operation your neighbors have called to say that um they're living next to you and your grass is TW you know 14 Ines high and we have to start acting as a property manager then uh their fee um for registering that property gets high so I'm not hearing any consensus um the consensus I'm hearing is to not impose these maintenance obligations within the ordinance well it's to thing well and you know Comm St you brought up the point I think very well before about dealing with the trash in in a rented property that just accumulates and someone's going to take care of it it destroys the neighhood years ago when they set up utility companies coming in they would include the trash service as part of the utility bill so anytime we know someone going to have utility

they're going to have trash so I I think it's okay to set that tie in especially in you know regular density areas not everywhere this rural maybe but at least in those areas there's merits to that to keep the neighborhood up um I think we do need to work with the renters as far as I know uh Mr Armstrong has told me several times he has trouble when he's got a property that's in transition from one to the other setting up water surface we need to try to make that easy as well so these guys can go and get the water hooked up be able to show the be able to clean those and move on so I think there Provisions that we need to take a look at as well doesn't apply directly to that issue right here but it's it is something we do need to you know keep an eye on if you get people living in a house I'll tell you there was one area over in beak Woods east across the street from where I used to don't rent the property these people here didn't have running water but they were able to set up a sewer system and they'd steal water from the Neighbors in the back and side it's ridiculous so there is a a flour in the system that we do need to take a look at Mr I'm going back to the owner provides electric and water I I you know it's R it's it does happen but I think it's rare when we have people who don't have electric and water um you I think you know I'm not a landlord but it seems to me when someone has a a rental house it's typically the tenant that goes and signs up for the water and the electric well and to be and I don't think we should be having the land the owner of the house we have a way to address that it's a minimum housing violation not to have electric and water so that's how we would be addressing yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't put that on the owner of the house to go do that because people people cannot pay and then the landlord has the owner has to pay and that's that's not I don't think that's the way that business works and M priority might be just to make sure that it is set up rent to make yeah just that they cannot live in the house without someone has to have it okay now you confused me I need three it's it's just that you're saying here the the owner Pro provides the electric and water so that means the owner has contracted with du I don't think that I get I get nobody's in favor of the owner providing electric and water utility services do you want the owner to verify that the tenant has done so we'll put in just the registry whether it's tenant setup or it's whether it's owner setup I don't really care doesn't set what do you do if he doesn't verify that they got it I mean what's the penalty orim housing violation you're going back where you're it's already a violation it's already a violation but what I think what Chris is asking for is on the form do we put a box that says the owners verified that the tener has utility service think Check Yes or No that's not a big deal just that's kind of a reminder yeah yeah but that means that

um they have to come back in after they've given that information I think and and touch the registry again and I think that no no do it up front they do it all up front when they change tenons it may change yeah it'll change when they change tons have to verify each time well it's really why don't we think you're discuss this cuz we're going to bring this give us some time to think this all to sink in mhm because you have to come back and go through the process anyways right so have some direction on the main points we don't I think most of us have consensus that we really don't want to go this route now but there's still some questions but those can be answered once we have more time to think about it when we actually go through the actual ordinance and have public hearings and then listen to the citizens all right that time fees I want youall to know that I am not a huge fan of PowerPoint so I had this all ghetto blinged up it was gold and silver and um Paula and Tracy reeled me back in but they did leave my meme in so thank you um I appreciate Sher Sheriff nak saying no cost but we all know there is a cost to everything um I think what he's saying I don't want to speak for you is there is a cost but your agency is willing to absorb the cost of right that yeah I say there is a cost for it they're going to be doing they already have the false the the registration false alarm registry up in place we're just mimicking that and put in place but why this why the information is important to us and that's what it is it's an information tool to find out just who the people who the owner of the property is it's going to save us we believe in the long run for deputies spending time out there Wai trying to trying to do investigative purposes to try to find out where somebody lives or who the actual owner is so Mr chairman I think we were saying so basically initially we're going to have to there be be some coding done on on the platform itself just to allow this but after that we good well there's an ongoing right right there's an ongoing clerical cost involved for example um uploading is the actual documents for trespass agreements um but does he already have an FTE that's going to be doing that that already does the other that's well Mr chairman we we won't be up so it' be the responsibility I mean you'd have to scan it into the system so all you're doing is going into our system right now it's like if these you know 8700 citizens drive this is the owner of the property and that's what I'm doing and you're just you're just putting that data in there but if you have a rental registry like I mean you have a rental agreement with somebody you're getting it putting in a PDF form and scanning it into the yeah into it's optional if you want to do that but that's would be that would be on the owner side there would be administrative

costs for example um I mean one one thing that I I think is really beneficial to the landlords is receiving um these notifications of Sheriff's Office activity of Code Enforcement warnings and things like that that that is that's people who are actually taking that information uploading it into the registry and making it available um to the registrant um right now again we have a foreclosure registry requires semiannual registration um the fee um is split with the vendor because there are administrative costs both on their side and on our side in managing and maintaining a regist this one actually quite frankly goes even further because it provides for affirmative notification to landlords that of what is happening on the on the properties um how what what is the fee how much is the fee on the believe it is is it 250 semi anually can somebody from Pro champ help me here 250 every six months for foreclosure right 250 250 semi anual do mean for for foreclosure you have to reup at every six months every six months you have to um re-register up you know update and it's a $250 fee we're not every time you do that um if you update the info um it's a smaller significantly smaller amount if you're changing the information say the service changes or something like that um to update the fee there is a late fee to encourage people to timely register um and you know I wanted to let you know that one thing that we have considered based on um the conversations that have been had is instead of one base fee options for a sliding scale fee um I you know I know everybody's saying no fee no fee but I want to tell you I just want to show you what fee options there would be okay um you would collapse the fees for multifam units um reduce the fees for example for people opting out of notifications like nope I don't want to know you know if my tenant you know um gets a warning reducing fees for local owners our costs to communicate with them and to serve legal notices are obviously lower in those cases wave fee for single registerable property owner seasonal homes reduce fees for person persons opting out of notifications we're doing this so they're they'll be notified you know so I don't know why we would want to reduce fees or not allow them or allow them to opt out you know well let's say that they live near their government center and they're there every week and they don't have a problem popping into code enforcement and saying hey you know do you have any complaints about my property but so now I'm not advocating any of this I am repeating ideas that have been told right so that's what we're at a workshop so we're having this discussion amongst ourselves um yeah it kind of now we're giving now we're giving them the benefit of the d d again which which is what's going on now

so I just think scratch that one chairman chairman you Christie you know I appreciate everything you put into this but I think if the board is with no fees then we're with no fees we're going let Sheriff's Office do it there's no need for you to go over any of this all right I mean you want to go you want to go you want to go commissioner by commissioner and see if that's the case um so so what is that would make again I know you put a lot of work in this um want I don't know what y'all do I just want you to tell me what to do we don't we don't really need to go over any fees because there's not going to be well commissioner Wells I'm going to disagree with you what if we have a landlord a property where the code has gone out repeatedly and the sheriff's been out repeatedly and we have to keep acting as the property manager what what is the re what is the consequence of that violation the state gets the money the citizens of the county are paying for being the property manager that is where I think a fee comes in but we I mean we have fees now I can think of there's one 'real but there's I'm just talking about there's a 20,000 we find of $20,000 you know there's violations we have to be care there's a difference between a code violation fee and a registration fee and if we just say it's a code violation fee we don't get the money so uh so thetion fee would help a registration fee reduce a subsid from the general fund that already goes into the program right so that is where I think the citizens of Pasco need to be protected that's what this slide is yeah is a proposal that has been made to increase a regist or require a registration fee um for properties that do have violation um right that's what triers that's what would trigger right you know the the the the Crux of this matter is is all come down protecting our deputies that are going out there our code enforcement team that's out there so they know who's in the house who's going to be protected if you just think back to Leisure Lane vendor okay the Lords the slum Lords that were in there that put you guys in danger day after day and has destroyed that neighborhood I will say code and the Sheriff's Office done a phenomenal job cleaning that place up it's getting a lot better right now so we're making progress we want to try to avoid that stuff and put these guys in danger if we've got people that aren't keeping that property up that probably don't have an A on their mailbox sign uh that that type of you know owner is going to be good but the other ones that that are going to cause the trouble we we've got to go after that and if like you say we don't want to be the HOA but we don't want to be having to go let the state make a lot of money when we got to put all the resources into it and if it's no cost to these people to go through grant that it's inter and absorbed by

you guys that's fine the trouble people just like your ILP is what who you want to go after who you want to penetrate and you want to get them off using our services and and and causing these troubles that are deteriorating values all through the neighborhoods so I think if we do look at the penalty part not just the regular part I think I think it's Merit that's a difference I think that's where it needed to be yes we were a little confusion before and I think there was confusion amongst a feta register now we're talking about Fe for property owners with violations that's a different story okay so well and you're already running some of the program today you don't have the registry but we're already spending a significant amount of taxpayer resources managing these properties today with no fee right now the taxpayer subsidizing all that that work right now both on our side and on the sheriff side different this is different no I think there's agreement that fee for property violations we the same paid with that well that's a that's a code violation I mean there already that that's already we're not we can't call it that different as as the sheriff did with in collaboration with the County Commission uh the alarm fee there was a there was an a different tier an escalator when you when you had false alarms that deputies had to respond to so that that's sort of the same thing you're talking about here yeah Sheriff I I just um to I mean I think the whole thing for us to work with the property owners and the managers on this and one thing I just want to make sure it's clear is that you know informing them when something goes on this is when it affects the neighborhood and the community I mean domestic disturbances are horrible that occur or domestic violence but those type of situations would not be something where we would notify the property manager um or property owner um it's or like the kid is you know a child who's living at the house is delinquent doesn't go to school you know we got that's something not where we're notify we would notify owner for things because this issue is affecting the community it's affecting their business of being an owner saying hey look this house is being deteriorated they're putting holes over the place there's crime going on just want to make sure you're aware of what's Happening Here but not for we're not going to report to them any time something happens it has to be something that affects the community or affects them as the owner of the business of the house chrisy can we kind of finish this up you got everything you need or no well we we have we have another item we've got to discuss before I'll be quick okay um so the next um debate that I've heard is a vendor versus PSO in house I'm just going to have to defer um to the sheriff on his capacity and cost as far as his ability to do that I think he said he can um I will tell you that our current foreclosure registry vendor um also has this capacity and it was a factor in US

renewing our contractual relationship with them so um do we know what they would charge if we you know there's a there's a scale if there's so many somebody from Pro Champs come up and speak to that if you will please state your name and address for C Johnson I am attorney uh with CR Champs uh 2725 Center Place uh if I can just make sure I understand the question the question is what would we as a vendor keep as a charge for administering the program is that correct yeah yes so typically our contracts uh are 50% not to exceed a certain dollar amount of whatever the fee is so for instance no they want to know how much would it cost to register what would you as a what would recommend fee yes we see that in different counties I have some some data but no more than $50 typically is what we suggest um per year for registration what we're seeing in uh why does it have to be per year why can't it be say a certain number at one time and then just a fee to if there's something changes it could it could be it's up to yourview on what uh you typically these Registries are yearly registrations so that's what we're we're used to seeing and that's what we're used to managing so it and this is the vendor's cost to manage all of it andake the information format it send it back out for instance in Coral Springs it's $56 uh Palm Beach it's 33 Gainesville is 2004 so it varies but we could run the program for $25 so the add-ons thank you that we have talked about um I'm going to leave fees for a second I'll come back and let you let that sit um I I'm sorry I'm going to leave vendor versus PSO for a second and let it sit and percolate the add-ons that we have talked about as far as what what's not in there right now but that we could add um as optional are a check box where somebody can say yes I want to enter into a trespass agreement with the Sheriff's Office on vacant property and they could upload that um yes I want to receive notifications of warnings violations PSO code activity requiring property um ignore the short-term rental module um and then an inspection service for minimum standard we do not have the staff to to undertake an inspection of all rental properties or even all um uh vacant properties um and that may be something that we want to get the registry going and then look and see if that would be helpful for example to require an annual inspection of vacant commercial prod property just to see what the conditions of it are Etc um does everybody agree that there should be an optional or a mandatory an optional add-on for a trespass agreement with the PSO on vacant property yeah yes does everybody agree that there should be mandatory notific hold on second when you say vacant property just talking about rentals or talking about open land I think you need that it would come next page it's either developed or

undeveloped but not occupied yeah yeah yes that's a big problem in District three and five and five um mandatory would be it would just be uh the benefit that comes with registration is notification of warnings violations PSO code activity is that correct that's just yeah and I part of the that the county is that's a cost there is a cost associated with that when you notify and warn somebody that has to be recouped in some form or fashion and then the last um I'm skipping short-term rentals for now um minimum standards inspections we have it's two staff intensive for current Staffing levels for us to do some annual rental inspection um we rely currently on a system of complaint sweeps and targeted inspections for high return projects um that's what we're doing right now there's some other options where you could require self-certified yeah I've looked at it you could require a third party to come in and look at the house and check it off not hearing any big drum beat from the Commissioners if you know to to require the landlord affirmatively to go have the house inspected um am I wrong as a percentage of total I think that is is not a big number so I hate to put that that burden on all right majority trespass agreements they're currently done on an ad hoc basis usually suggested by the county or the Sheriff's Office for all vacant properties whether developed or undeveloped optional for owner um we certainly want to encourage them and and make it easier for them as part of the registration process to enter into that trespass agreement um so we would add an element to the registry to educate owners about the trespass agreement option we would upload the trespass agreements into the registry um as as we said before would remain optional um and I think that it's going to work best when it's integrated with the registry contact info and local agent property management and pass agreement is very important the sheriff's office right we have deputies go to that property they need to be able to do something right um chrisy yes I want to go back I want to ask you a question about the previous slide and just on your experience and Patrick's experience and maybe um the Sheriff's Office experience I know that we have seen especially in mobile homes that um deteriorate over time um unhealthy living conditions in Mobile Homes of a certain age and so do we want there could be a trigger maybe for and I don't know what that number is and I defer to you guys if you think that if there are mobile homes that are passed at a certain age where we should inspect them because I saw that picture of that toilet that was being held up only by the pipe and no floor around it and someone was running that to someone and I I here's my suggestion let's stand up the registry without any affirmative inspection

requirements for right now and then consider whether there are certain things that should require inspection whether they're older mobils like you said or whether there are vacant commercial properties that we haven't been in and haven't seen the inside of for 10 years well but they've been vacant that sort of thing um I mean we hear of it you know I I have people who write me that they're renting a house and it's full of mold well and right now the way we're handling that is we get those complaints from the tenants and we go in and we do a minimum housing inspection and um or when they become vacant and they're unsecured we go in and most of the time they need the criteria for demo okay chairman I was just going to agree CH is that you know just keep on the path of the registry and then we go into other things further on like you know violations and um fees for the violations keep that separate um short-term Run alls I'm going to vac I'm going to very quickly um tell you that can we go back though I wanted to I want to jump on that trespass agreement Mr chairman yes so you know along US 19 there's a lot of people and I I hear stories of people being busted up from Fort Myers Sarasota penelas Etc and they they're coming to Pasco hanging along the US 19 cter where they can get fed here fed there Etc um and Sheriff we talked before about if you guys going into a homeless area and you're going into the woods and the trees Etc it's not safe and we talked about having like an 8 foot high clearance we put something together from a another County where they had a uh an where you kind of clear away Brazilian peppers and Australian pines I think it's a good start to say okay if we're going to get a violation that we add in on these vacant undeveloped properties that we're going to make you put a trigger the fine will be that you're going to go clear out that property to make it safer for everybody to come in and and end that and we should be doing that to our own property keep reminding we want we want our property gra so we want to see we want to see that put in there I think as well that it's going to get cleared and I think tying in that ordinance I know commissioner turn pay a county attorney said he was worried about the cost involved what's going to make a trigger but I think that's the appropriate trigger and that's one of the things I was trying to look at as far as the benefit I think our concern with that is if the property owner doesn't do it and code goes and does it we don't have the money in their budget and we'll never get that money back comes in that's the challenge I mean we looked at the same thing with the the golf course thing is there's not enough money in their budget for them to maintain a golf course that isn't

meeting the standards for maintenance so that's the challenge here and we would never get that money back we would lean the property we're the lowest priority the county would never get that money back if we were going to go in there and graub all the property that's our challenge is we don't have the money to do that and again you you put it on the home you put it on the land owner first to go do it but I mean it's a problem if you don't do it you're going to continue to have the same problem over and over again we've got would go and and do something with us and I think the people would say you know what for this homeless population that's deteriorating I mean drive up and down 19 in the morning go watch what's going on there people want to see some action here I mean I we did Coastal cleanup the other day and I get a call from a lady I sent the email over uh she was doing clean up down a Leisure Beach and the homeless she saw down there she's worried about the trash uh the the that go in the water and and I will tell you we just cleaned out the the the beacon Woods across the canal from from the Walmart there and we clean that out you got towels that are alongside that Canal you got all sorts of trash that was in that canal and I will tell you I've got many calls from people down that that Canal going out there talking about fees that's in there from the homeless population so it something that has to be addressed it's health and safety Mr chairman sure and I agree commissioner Mariano I I would the only thing I would ask is that if we can keep this just on the um registration and then do a comprehensive plan you know as we look you know as we address homeless issues or that's actually you know besides being almost it's an environmental issue that we're that we're seeing out there so I would I would just ask we'd be happy to be a part of that but if we kept this separate only because I just want to kind of bring up to have that in there but I just want to tell you these other things that we're working on as well right so optional uploads would be um I we would love it and would provide uh uh uh the ability for them to upload the lease the identities of and contact information for renters persons or services that are contracted for property maintenance for example um vehicles on property rent or employment photos of the property among uh amongst uh upon rental these would be options but that they could go ahead and upload into the registry to create a record is that correct Sheriff yes okay they optional y um violations fa failing to register timely failing to pay fees which is apparently not applicable right now except maybe with respect to violations um failing to timely update information providing false or incomplete information the fine would be up to $500 per day per violation um that's something that the board eventually will have to settle on um in in the process of uh enacting the ordinance will have to um

update the the uniform fine schedule um and then um again this registry will require the officer director managing member um to give their information so when the vi when the property owner is an entity um we have a person to serve legal notices on um the logistics what's next I will modify the draft to reflect the discussion that we've had here today and my understanding of what a majority of board members want I will um reintroduce the draft um and then we will have at least one public hearing and only requires one public hearing the effective date I would have to defer to whoever is managing it as far as what lead time you need in the meantime whatever lead time is being given we would ask for example utilities to do inserts into bills or somebody else and generate some sort of educational proactive mailing um suggest informational mailing to Realtors non-homestead parcels Etc describing the registry requirements the online Link um the payment methods if there is to be involved Etc that's it thank you you did so we have our workshop with the cities this afternoon so I don't think you guys are going to be here right sheriff is there anything you want brought up important the cities no I'm not going to be here there so chairman U before I was ask a question um when do we expect us to be up to make sure our staff will be prepared and maybe we'll be able to have a demo of the okay so we'll just go it's going to take me October to get it drafted and introduced okay um and I would anticipate maybe the first um meeting in November for public hearing but as I said the effective date could be sometime in the future after that okay I just want to make sure so if we want to make it effective January 1 or effective March for I whatever I'm going to defer to y'all on what the effective date should be based on whatever your administrative capacity is to get it set up no yeah we're getting answer we're just looking for the date of the meeting so maybe we have our IT staff and show you a presentation the other thing is um Mr chairman I was going to say commissioner more um one of things I ask all the Commissioners this is that you know talk about the cities it's it I appreciate because that was actually an easy one to answer because our biggest issue with the cities is goes back to one thing and we have a great relationship with the police departments but there's one thing that if we can enhance it is that our Communications um for years we've actually sent letters to city managers to Chief Chiefs the police to ask us all to be on the same communication system and it goes back a couple years ago when we um you know Sheriff's Office had a separate communication system from the county and the biggest fear always within any county is they always say oh the Sheriff's Office want to take over the

police department tell we don't our goal is to us to communicate so we actually gave you know we had a partnership we gave the communications over to the county so there was no threat that oh the sheriff's office is trying to take us over I appreciate and when you're dat city thank dat City uh Billy po when he was there they did a great job we merged there was a few Hanks but we got through them and now it runs seamlessly um Marjorie stow and Douglas when they did the report they said one of the biggest failures in public safety was that law enforcement cannot communicate the local cannot communicate with the Sheriff's Office uh the local police department cannot communicate with the sheriff's office if there was a way you know we can bridge that communication gap um because you know well fire law enforcement and I know with cities uper Hills you're moving forward with the fire side if that could be one of the things in there is that Communications all has to be merged together but our biggest failure we will see if God forbid something bad happens is a failure of communication especially for a municipality city that has a school in their district and we're not able to work together and I know everybody always says oh you can just turn a a dial or two on your radio and it it'll fix everything well when bullets are flying critical decisions have to be made and people are bleeding out you don't have to worry about looking at your radio they turn to dial you want to just be able to press the button and we're all talking together so if you could bring that up and encourage them to move forward on it we greatly appreciate it that's so we had that discussion a couple years ago and I thought everybody was going to be board wasn't that we supped the same thing when we talked about I think I think you're you're talking two different things you're talking radio system I think everybody's on the p25 system but it's a matter of the it's a matter of we have we have uh different 911 call centers and different dispatches dispatchers right and so we only do it for Dade City we don't do it for the other municip well in St Leo and San Antonio but you know we don't do it for Z Hills new Port Richie or Port Richie those calls get transferred to their Communication Center when we get all their cell phone calls come to our communication Center and then we have to transfer them and anytime you're transferring a call there's a risk there and so so those are the three we're working on so and the other one is the problem the County Administrator is that if you call from the cell phone you're in municipality it goes to the county we get it and then you have to transfer back transfer back so takes time yeah yeah okay all right good so that's every y well on this one we have another topic another try to get at least Next Issue all right okay so good morning commissioner s Hernandez planning and velopment and um I do have also some of my colleagues here from building

construction services um I see Vanessa Rogers I'm only calling them out because these are the subject matter experts on this item I see Vanessa Rogers um and we had would you would you join join us um who's the lead senior development review technician we also have esro Lami who's the building official and the director of Building Construction Services and Anthony mrao Who is the deput building official here on this item so today we're going to discuss roof roofs over docks and to provide a brief history on this item not going to go back to the beginning but we're going to go back to when uh Planning and Development Department staff and the County Attorney's office we're bringing this item through um introduction and through first reading and um ultimate adoption there was talk at the dis that um uh a majority of the Commissioners wanted the Planning and Development Department um of course we we work uh collectively with building construction services the county attorney's office to bring forth a uh an ordinance that would cover roofs over docks uh countywide so the question that we're asking today or several questions that we're asking today what do you want this ordinance to look like um so we're asking for some policy Direction so some of the options and these are not all the options but some of the options on policy direction is basically do you want us to replicate ordinance 1922 which would allow roofs and enclosures on all Waters in the county um do you want us to draft an ordinance to allow roofs over docks with no walls or enclosures that are basically that are open on all sides uh do you want us to draft an ordinance that would allow roofs over boat slips only not the entire dock area do you want to look at another course of action or do you want to take no action on the item at this time have some handy dandy photographs to show you as to what some of these things can look like and do look like these are some photographs some are from Pasco County and some are from um manate Sarasota area um so just showing the first one is that's a detachable awning cover over a boat slip um the next one is a gable roof over a boat slip and a dock so that's not only covering the boat slip is it's also covering a portion of the dock um the next one is a gable roof over a boat slip and a dock and uh flat aluminum roof over the boat slip the following one one um is a roof over dock it also has a boat house and a Sund deck so this is where it's enclosed on many sides and then there's a Sund deck on the top uh next one is a hip roof over a boat slip and a dock so it covers not only the boat slip it also covers a dock area so folks can maybe have like a picnic or you know U maybe some chairs some lawn chairs um it in increases the um the usable area on the property the following one is a detachable awning cover over boat slips so what happens is that this awning comes in with like clips and it's removable the following one is a gable roof over dock with there's no boat slip

on here so as you could see they're using this as um additional entertainment area outside so you see there's a table and some chairs following one is a canvas covered boat slip awning covered Boat Boat Lift uh flat aluminum co uh roof uh covered boat lift and a flat aluminum roof covered boat lift I just wanted to provide some examples I mean there's a lot of other things out there as well you know you'll see uh um something similar to the first one which is a roof over not no walls but a roof over a dock and then a an elevated like a Sund deck on top that's also things that you see around so just wanted to get the the juices flowing and ask the Commissioners what your uh to provide uh Direction and again just to give you an idea of some of the options that are out there um do you want us to replicate the ordinance as we did for um roofs over docks um with walls and enclosures on um that what we did for private Lakes inland Lakes do you want to do that replicate that countywide uh do you want us to draft an ordinance to allow roofs over docks without walls or enclosures just thinking of the visibility thought process that I've heard some folks talk about in the past uh do you want us to draft an ordinance to allow roofs over boat slips not the entire dock area no course of action or another course of action or no change to the current um status okay Mr start well I'm going to start off as a person who lives on the water and has boats on the water um there are so many reasons why I think this is a bad idea for communities like ours and Coastal communities and I have my civic association um folks here and and I know they some from other communities who do not want this I this is this is my view um we took this the other night this view would be obliterated if everybody put a roof on their dock um the only view you would have left would be straight out uh and I live on the Open Water if I was in one of the canals or channels I I can't imagine what it would do to their property values and and and the the um change in quality of life for them to sit outside their backyard and enjoy that the reason why they're on the water which a lot of that is their beautiful views second um it's dangerous these things can go flying um just take a look at what happened in the Bahamas uh I I do a lot of boating I we took our boat to the to bimin this summer we went down the inter Coastal because it was so windy and there are very very few places that allow roofs on docks and and I think um safety is C certainly one of them and um and I just I can see it on a lake um where you're not subjected to the wind like you are on the coastal areas and also the lot sizes are different so um so you're not you're not wrecking your neighbor's View um we have a a rule here in the county that you cannot have a fence higher than 4T in the first 15 ft back on your property and that is to protect the view shed of each resident um and so so why would we have

that role and then allow you to um block the water view with roofs over your boats if you want to cover your boat you can cover it put a tarp on it um and boats come with covers um but most voters most boats are made to be out in in the elements and don't need to be uh under a roof um so I just think that this is a very bad idea and I hope that it does not move forward Marana and and I and I sympathize with the people at Gulf Harbors I mean they they spoke very strongly how they don't want to see this happen and woodlands and landings yeah the whole the whole area so I and and I don't want to do anything that's going to interfere what what they've created I mean they've got a tremendous area great quality of life and it's I I don't want to interfere with that uh if there's a way that we can take care of the other areas such as up in the Hudson channels Etc that do want to have that option um and we can talk in the details far of that I would like to explore that but I again I don't want to affect what's going on with the landings of woodlands and the harbors you're talking about up in the Hudson um they are not HOAs or anything like G Harbor no really don't have any HOA up there what about an msbu type situation is some actually SE Pines is though Pines is I think is probably brain brille Lakes has one as well they don't Leisure Beach yeah I think theyve got one so Ms msus are a financing mechanism they're not a regulatory mechanism is there any kind of regulatory mechanism we can do for a community that because a a wouldn't a um deed restriction would it supersede the county wait a valid deed restriction is always enforcable regard even if the county has a lesser regulation a deed restriction which is more liberal than a County ordinance would not be able to be enforced because the County ordinance would control but if you had a stricter valid deed restriction it could be enforced in lie of Land Development I is Mr chairman just making a comment I was trying to Google Earth something here but you the Lakes was one thing you know we had a large number of people that came out and wanted that we talked about few sheds large pieces of the property obviously different different story again the fear I I've heard from some of the residents in the Waterfront communities again is that F but especially the people on the canals because they don't have they don't have much and then there's obviously the safety issues too so I you know I was trying to pull it up now there's really no way to put it up there but if you look at some what I what I think about some of the you like think about some Premier Waterfront communities I.E the keys I go to the Keys a lot um so is marada you know Key West Marathon all those areas you don't you don't see them on them I mean they they High highly regulate that um I used to have have a place over on St Peak

Beach and they didn't allow them any of the can canals in that area too and a lot of these people have you know Million Dollar Plus votes um and and without them um I think just again my opinion I don't I'm not the commissioner on the in the Waterfront districts um so I don't hear as much obviously um that as much as you guys commissioner Wells does too but um I think going down the road in the future you may end up you start allowing them you might end up with some blighted situations too on top of this on top of this where you're going to have some roofs that are you know people are going to take care of in 5 10 15 20 years down the road we're going to run back into you know not only light in front of the houses you're going to have a lot of light behind the homes too on some of these canals with them not being kept up just just a thought my opinion just w we've been talking about you know roofs over docks over boats actually and the coast which you and Marano and thear all are part of that coach so we we tend to favor you know maybe what y'all see out there rather than we on the other side we don't have water like that so Lakes it seems to be fine uh I have a place in homeless ass I have it one on mine on on the river it doesn't view or anything so it's a different view let me ask you a question I didn't I apologize all right what's the difference between it being on salt water or freshwat is it you're saying there is a difference why allowing and I guess well I think you're like on like on Lake you got a smaller view that you're see you see way across the lake even though you have those when you're out like go har got total VI you know some people don't because they're on the canal they got you must have them on both sides it'll be very different I think forgive me or chairman Oak was saying commissioner was saying before again um think about the lot lines and you know your doctor something some of these areas are a lot closer so you don't have you won't taking away your neighbor possible view shed whether it be across the canal or if your house is you know next to each other depending on where the docks located CU you know some docks almost encroach upon go in front of other people's homes if you look at some of the docks some of those areas the dock actually is on the edge of some other people's um home sites too actually encroaches in front of their I don't want to say encroaches but actually ends up being in front of their home where some of the docks are how they're staffed so if you put it up there you could actually Ro that's the point there I don't have a twostory house out there I wish I did but I can't imagine being on the second floor and looking out on the the covers and seeing all that bird poop that would be your view is just bird poop up and down the channels I mean there's no way to keep them off off of those it it they'd just

be filthy and and how you going to clean that you going to have to get a ladder and get up on top so that's another reason why I I just I think it's a bad idea where we are I think it's a great idea on the Lakes I mean my in-laws had a house on the lake with a dock and I wish you know I'd love for them to have a little gazebo out there but um but not not in the kind of lots that we have um on our coaste commission I just I just want to make a couple corrections I heard safety issues Roose on docks and docks require building permit they're going to have to require with comply with the same wind loading that the homes that are built on the water have to comply with I did not have to do any engineering on my dock none I know we do now we do now but are you going to make everyone who has a dock now go back and get engineer we're but we're not talking about the old docks we're talking about new docks Ro going to put a roof on your dock then you have to BU no you'd have to come in for a building permit you'd have to comply with the requirements with a building permit what I'm saying is we have a lot of docks most docks in the county I would say there aren't any docks in the county that have been engineered what my point commissioner is that if somebody wants to put a roof on dock if the board makes a policy decision to allow that if somebody wanted to put a roof on a dock they would have to come in and get a building permit and show how they met the building codes for that there were no codes when those docks were built correct but if you want to add a roof to it you have to Bu you're going to have come in you're going to have to do whatever it takes to meet the code saying there so I I I just just want to be clear that we're requiring permits for those things today so they will have to meet the same wind loading that a new house built out there would have to meet but you cannot how are they going to prove now that has nothing to do with View and I mean if the board makes a policy decision that we don't want to mess with views and stuff that's a board policy decision I'm just saying that from a safety perspective they're going to have to require building permit so that that requirement is there so that's just want to be clear on that piece of it Mr Mr just s commissioner Wells as he was outside I wanted him to understand what I had said earlier uh for the communities of Gulf Harbors GF Landings G Woodlands I don't want to interfere with their quality of life what they've got set up what they've got in place I don't want to put them in a situation it's going to change what they've got uh if there was a way to take a look at doing up in Hudson and the other other areas I would entertain that um but again I don't want to affect their quality of what they've got good got their communities they've got a great community and I don't want to put a negative to that I do know people in the Hudson area would like to see it and you know some of those

channels are real narrow and whether a boat's there or a covers over a couple of feet it's not going to affect it much because they don't have the the longer views that you may have at G Harvest with the wider channel so you know I just want you to understand that's my perspective on that chairman and and I've since this I mean I've met with all kinds of residents residents in golf Harbors that want it residents in golf harbers that don't want it um residents in Hudson that want it don't want it there's a lot of places in Hudson that have them already I'm assuming they must have got done before they were grandfathered in um and I've never thought twice when I go by on a boat or I'm visiting somebody's house that that's obstructing my view shed I know you're talk about burd poop but you're going to get that on a T-top of the boat or in the boat anyhow um Denise let me ask you a question what what's the height restriction right now for like the rooftop on a dock what's what's the height restrict I believe it's 15 feet on medium water level from the me high water line yeah okay and I guess my thing is we don't even and I understand what you're saying commissioner it sounds like U you two are on the same page as commissioner starky which I guess if that's the case it's kind of a mute subject but I want to give you my opinion we've got boats now that are on lifts that are up high that boat probably you're looking at there is above the 15 ft which is not in compliance we should be out there faulting them I mean I guess where does it stop um you know when you look at the top of the boat it's above the 15 ft rooftops they don't look that bad um I'm just using an example for Catherine because you had it right that's not my I know I know I'm just you know no it's not boat her boat her boat's a lot bigger than that my boat isn't that big way above that I wish they had a smaller boat so I I see it from both aspects again I'm open to I look at a couple ways one would it be kind of cool if I like I know the city of porie they allow them to have it they look nice on the river is the river would it well I'm just that's kind of what we're talking about is on the river the canal and the on the to picture you know um you know fova has one it's a nice little Tiki Hut we go it's but I understand also where you're coming from do we could we do it in I don't know certain the way the view sheds are they're not allow the way the houses are placed facing west they are allowed I I don't know but I think that it's an option that I I personally think it should be is the same as the freshwat I've already said that there really shouldn't be any difference it would just make it easy across the board but again I understand where folks are coming from that are for and against it um I think it's also nice to protect your boat if you have a cover over your boat it definitely and you know the boat boat's very expensive you leave it sit

out in the sun the after 6 months you got to get new a pul streak cu it's all worn from the Sun and everything else so I get that as well so I'm you have a tarp I well but I don't even know if we're allowed to have tarps on I'm sure it's probably against our policy oh throw it over the boat you know so but again I don't think we're not enforcing the 15 foot now that's not very high I'm just I don't know what you mean by 15 the highest the roof can be on a dock is 15 foot above medium yeah that mean High Water Market the highest what do you mean a roof on a do the the dock can't be more than 15 ft above the main high water mark the dock itself yeah but it the height limit also applies to lifts pilings boat roofs walls enclosures and other attachments no we don't have any it doesn't say the we have one guy who says it's a dock when it's a deck but my point is is it does it it is boats as well and the boats are above there's I I could give you examples of boats are above the 15 foot I don't like that there's walls in here because I think that there I don't want to know why we want put walls up but if it's something that's done correctly with four corners and I I personally don't think it blocks debut much but again I appreciate everybody's opinion on this so I'll just leave it I don't I've heard from four don't know if I've heard from the chair I'm I'm on a river I don't know um well I've heard two different directions so yeah from two on a river like I am in homas it's not a problem a dock a roof on a dock over a boat I like it cuz I wouldn't necessarily have to have a cover on that boat but that Sun beats and and really makes damage on boats I would imag imagine people are here just for that because that damages sun in 68 months uh it's quite a bit of damage on even I think with even a tar or whatever over it you still have a lot of Heat going on that boat in those times so I kind of like the idea of protecting the boat but I also appreciate people that want to view and they bought out there to have that view so I don't how you have both at the same time cover your boat just put just cover the boat if that's an issue to you but I can tell you the vast majority of Florida Excuse me' excuse me the vast majority of Florida doesn't allow on the coast I I challenge you to take Google Earth and zip around the Florida coastline and they don't so and trying to get direction for Denise either to do something or don't do something I've heard two each way and I it's I'm not sure Mr chairman let let me let me jump in real quick again just a reminder we're we're we're in a workshop right um so that's we're not making an actual decision today we never we don't make decisions at work sh that comes when we have a public hearing and then that does give the residents a chance to speak during the public hearing so you know it seems like we're kind of you know well again we hearing different sides obviously to this and we

don't have 100% consensus right now um so the question is do you bring something back and we go and we go through the public hearing process or not that's no we can I me we but what do we bring back well um gosh I'm losing my train um so we have to let Denise know if we even want her to do anything and um and so if there's um no one has answered Jack's question and his question is is there a way to deal to to f finely craft an ordinance that allows in my opinion as I told say if your is a certain WID you can have a boat covered because in Gul har in Hudson they're very small and maybe even canal with and of the canal as I told the board in the deliberations of 1922 this was this this was as fine as I could slice and dice it well I think that um I think that we should just it should just stop right here and if you want to cover your boat cover your boat um I you can look at um people in Gul Harbors who prefer to have their boat covered and they cover them there's tarps for that there there's no way wre anyone's view there's no way to abide by Deep restrictions where they have deep restrictions to keep from having the those de restrictions already exist in some of those communities so will that keep that we have a county that the yes but the problem with that is you're then you force th those communities to do the enforcement actions because you're you're if they come in and they ask for a building permit right and it's consistent with your code the building official has no choice but to issue it so or site plan approval or what how whatever you want so that's the constant issue with a community which has large larger setbacks I mean that's usually where you see this issue play out is for whatever reason they were that they were designed with a deed restriction that had larger setbacks or prohibited out buildings or whatever that somebody comes in and they get a building permit because it's consistent with county code then it's a civil enforcement action between the homeowners association and that property owner question Mr this a question not not not a recommendation but um in some policies or have you seen it with doing your due diligence through this process where in some jurisdictions did they allow them if they got a thumbs up from the neighbors say you can't regulate that way legally you can't regulate that way I thought it one I thought we had a discussion at one point where it was something think that commissioner Mariano had proposed when we had this last discussion which I think was when I made the St statement I made now is is that could not different areas be they voted up or vote it down I I think I can't draft you a defensible ordinance with that sort of a provision chairman and again just a thought I guess I'll go back to this and I'm just trying to still really

understand again I don't live on the water but what's the difference between a roof being on a dock in fresh water or salt water I don't see the difference I think your view shed behind your house looking straight out from behind your house is the same as it is on a lake I mean could it be obstructed if you looking trying to see the sunset you're on a lake and you want to look to the west to see this you can't see it because somebody's got a a group that's okay um that's but I just find it hard hard hard that we're going to allow it on fresh water but not salt water I don't think it's consistent and I really think it comes down to property rights it's kind of like when somebody owns property next to you and they want to develop it I get that you loved your view and I get all that but again your view stops at your property line no offense but I'm just being I'm just being honest I I again I've heard as many people in favor of this as I have against it so it's not like everybody's coming to me that's against it I know golf Harbors is and I you know but other folks that I've talked to and again I would I would like to have one if I if I lived on the water I would want to have one um so the same way so let me let me say that um we have a rule a rule is it in the whole County that um that the fence because you weren't here for this the your fence cannot be higher than 4 feet 15 ft back to protect the viewed when you live on the water so we already have started we already have rules to and and the county has already stated that those views are valuable and so putting look at look at this we shot this from the dock the other night and um my neighbors are are not happy if if their view gets obliterated as well but that whole thing changes if it's roof after roof after roof and I'm on open water again if I'm on a channel then it's really going to be bad for those folks but you're on if you want to cover your boat she's on a canal there that's not water it's a canal I'm on an open open Canal if you want to cover your boat you can cover it a canal you can do do what some of the folks in Gul Harbors do put a tarp over it um but don't don't inflict don't cause damage to your neighbor's views and and also um I think there can be dangerous issues and again I point out that the majority like by by 95% don't allow that's staying on the ground don't allow covers on docks on the coastline now a lake is different the lots are bigger the houses the houses are set much further back typically than what you see on our Coastline if the house you know but our houses are right up right up there so that makes big difference in that whole atmosphere a lake a river your house is not sitting on the channel I would guess I would guess sit yeah so so that that is where another way that it's different than um a lake um or a river I mean I saw some on the Manatee River it's really wide the docks are really long and the roofs are out there at the end of the dock not

bothering anybody if it blows off it's probably going in in the water um that is very different physical situation than what we're dealing with on our Coastline so Mr mil I still haven't heard three I haven't heard consistent well but I've also heard allow everything so you know this if we if we drafted something we'd bring it to a you know asking you to if we can move forward with it and then it it go through three public hearing processes so plan commission and two in front of the board you got to speak up so we got to see if we have three that want it to go to a draft form Mr chairman yes when I look at your picture that's right there there's a boat lift but there's no boat on it or is that am I reading looking it wrong because there's a boat that's a little bit further down yeah my little jet boat is um in North Carolina at the crumbly house little jet boat in the mailx it's about all right so so if that boat is there and it's up on the lift that's blocking your view or whatever goes up on that yeah but the roof is up here see it's here and here and here this whole piece is gone okay so here's here's what I'm looking at if you have it set like that and a boat lift when it goes up there I wouldn't have it up that way all right but maybe your neighbor might if it's in in the parameters that we have so if it's going to be at a certain height now can you put that screen back up sorry oops uh go back me all right when I look at the top left picture see how the boat's sitting down low and the docks like way the covers up real high if it was this whole piece is gone this whole thing I know just everyone does it I know just let me go a little further if it was gone and that thing was like pulled down tighter to it and now it's only like a foot over and maybe it's flat or whatever it may be with now the view shed is you can't get in the boat well obviously with with that height you would be able to get in the boat to get in I mean allowing for that little bit of height I don't think you need that much height so any cu you get in the on these lifts you know you get in the boat and then you go down so that the roof has to be really high um and so I'm telling you you're taking out the world so let me let me just floating that up there let me float up just one more thing to go take a look at you mentioned as well floting yeah floating no problem uh lot size Canal size and I don't know what parameters are in the Gulf Harbors Landings Woodlands area between those Canal sizes could you take a look and this is this would take some research toise go look at how wide those canals are go look at how deep the lots are and if you could you differentiate with parameters if a lot is only quarter acre or let's say small than a quarter acre just picking a number in and if a lot if a canal depth or width is less than 90 ft or 100 ft again just throwing numbers

out there if there was a way to devise what's in that area compared to what's in maybe the rest of the county could that be looked at if you could get those perimeters if it maed out where those perimeters may have some boundaries that could work if you can do an aesthetic regulation that considered that considered those those things that considered the material I mean you don't necessarily have to allow a trustbuilt roof over a DOT you can do something that's that's more lowprofile that's but that's a policy decision for the board and and yes that if you treat everybody the same it's you can make a defensible aesthetic regulation I mean I wouldn't mind taking a look at that and that that's going to take a bit more time to get get that looked at but if there was a way to go do that because I'll tell you when you're on those narrow canals you're looking at a boat anyway and you're looking at a house anyway I don't think there a difference between is there something like that now somewhere in the state or they don't put those kind of requirements on the so I don't know I have not come across one that is a a aesthetic well I have come across CER county has aesthetic regulations on covers on their boat docks they only allow canvas they only they're I think it only allows blue you know there are a bunch of aesthetic regulations they've adopted I don't know I have not seen a jurisdiction that allows them only in certain areas it's it's an all or nothing proposition where they regulate the canopy or the roof um that doesn't mean that that that something like that couldn't be designed but I haven't come across one in the couple of years that we've been working on this Mr El Denise you may not know this answer when it comes to our building code I'm just trying to get an idea of the 15 ft so if we allow somebody to put dbits in on a dock do we make the top of that electric dbit the 15 ft is that what they regulated to do like you know I mean to where they know what the height is that would be Land Development code not building okay sorry Land Development code um do we know if that is the case I'm not I'm not sure the question I'm sorry so like the davits where you can see that you know like the one commissioner Stark you had the picture where you could clear the see the davit is above the medium water line so not your property line the water line is that is that what it would be in there to allow it to only be 15 ft obviously correct well it's a current code that's what the current code says say to build it at 15 ft or up to it says a maximum Up Maximum you build you could build it lower but the water level they're talking about might be two or three on your property down you're talking about 12T above that the most at the most um the gulf Harbor's um civic association folks remind me that based on past experiences in Fort Lauderdale Mexico City Beach what yeah they're they are changing their requirements to disallow the roofs over the boats

because of what has happened to them in in the Hurricanes of the past so they're stepping it back the other way Mr I don't know Mr chair I mean I've heard two and two what would you like us to do someone one of your three and I can tell you I like to protect my boat all right well I mean again the there's four there'll be the first the presentation discussion then there'll be three public hearings afterwards so I mean it's not like you're okay with thems and landings if we can go protect them and look at the lot size canal with and find some ways to to make that so it fits good take a look at it I know that'll take a little bit of time but I think it's worth taking a look at I'm okay with that we work at it and make sure it's the best it can be we'll see what we can do and we'll bring you something back all right okay right good are we going to adjourn for lunch and be back here at 1:30 for [Music]

like to call good afternoon everyone I'd like to call back to order the workshop agenda for today September 24th 2019 it's our meeting we have with uh welcome city of you Richie and for Richie welcome to the table and that we will uh move into city of New Richie thank you Mr chairman uh with your permission what I'd like to do today with our time is introduce some projects that the city's currently implementing and then talk about some ordinances that we have either effectuated or planed to effectuate um which may be of interest to you uh from the city's perspective my mayor and Council have been pretty committed to the philosophy that the downtown district very much can be an engine that drives the city in that regard we have had three principal projects that have served as impetus for new development in the downtown area the first is Sims Park the second is and that um was completed two years ago the second is the Henda hotel which it was vacant at the time that uh the city purchased it the city has invested over $2 million into the facility we have now entered into a partnership with a developer who owns and operates a boutique stock a hotel in Mount Dora the Lakeside in at the conclusion of a $4 million investment on his part the city will transfer title to the property and he will then be operating a 42 room Boutique Hotel um in addition and of equal um excitement to the city is the main street Landings project which as most of you are aware was a shell building and it was left for a 10year period of time um my boss has told me we need to finish that project and so we were able to get the developer to come back to the table at its conclusion there will be 10 retail spaces on the first floor 82 apartment units they will range in size from 850 Square ft to 2,000 square ft the rent rates are about $150 a square foot and it uh collectively will represent a $25 million investment um in the city so we're very proud to tout that as as part of our success story and I think all of you are familiar enough with the downtown to note that there have been considerable changes in the character and the culture of our downtown in the last five or six years we believe that these projects were without question the impetus um that caused a revitalization in our downtown area and we are we are very grateful for the amount of private investment that's been made in terms of some ordinances that we have put in place in the cas case of a motel ordinance I thought that would be of interest to you we're moving into US Highway 19 now that we've been able to accomplish some of the set out objectives of the mayor and the council in relationship to the downtown area and

what we found out was we had a concentration of motels in the downtown and that many of them were housing almost principally transient clientele that um served as a deterant to some positive Economic Development growth in the city we have zoned out motels so motels now are in non-conforming zoning use we do allow hotels on the US Highway 19 quarter and additionally we have restrict did the percentage of rooms that can be used to house transients and that rate over the course of the next three years changes to a point that the business model of the operators will need to change because they will not be allowed to rent to permanent residents as a rule um this is important in a couple of different respects uh not only is it without question of DET torent to positive Economic Development growth but secondarily we found that the practice of the property owners was very predatory in nature and that left a lot of people being treated unfairly um in many cases people were asked to sign over their only source of income to the hotel operators in some cases it was a welfare or a social security check with which left a lot of people without some other tools to attend to their needs the other ordinance that's under consideration by the city that I thought might interest you relates to car dealerships we have a concentration of them on US Highway 19 which is our Highway commercial District you have have some also within the boundaries of the city um along US Highway 19 the the commonality among them is that they typically overpark cars um they're not terribly concerned about the customer experience and in some cases they don't even provide customer parking and they certainly don't have any standard or a number of them I should say don't have a reliable standard for stewardship of their properties or Embrace appropriate um Landscaping as a project element and so the city council has asked that the staff develop an ordinance which addresses the various Design Elements and we have done so um we have met with the business owners uh and I can tell you that at first they weren't embracing the idea um in fact there were some rather spirited discussion with some of the owners abused car dealerships in the city they though um have been satisfied because the city did two things one we're offering grants to assist them in implementing improvements secondarily we are allowing them to deviate from buffer requirements for landscaping by providing interior parking lot landscaping and that's a matter that will be considered by the council in October I'm hopeful that they will um find it appropriate to adopt the ordinance and the property owners would have one year in which to comply with the standards set forward in the agenda

uh in the ordinance pardon me topics that are of interest to us to discuss with you our annexation um Leisure Lane voran Avenue and what we're we're asking for specifically is we would like you to advance that project as a legislative project to be um considered by the state as a priority the city does plan to advance it as as a priority but in respect um to the proposed project I think it would bear much more validity if you two um went along with the city and advanced it as a priority the last item that we would like somewhat of a report from and it doesn't need to happen today but we we need to understand more fully what the County's role Liv in respect to our homeless population with that being said I can respond to any questions that you may have of me well it's going to come as no surprise Mr chairman that I really like your used car ordinance and um uh so in the county we have a used car and Boat Storage I think it's I think it's called a motor motor vehicle overlay what what is the correct term for our ordinance at well you have a um it's it's a condition for ukian Zoning for U Motor Vehicle sales yeah cuz it encompasses boats and RVs as well and um it came into being when all those um uh dealerships were coming in into Wesley Chapel and the neighborhoods were getting very nervous about having that right in front of them on those um commercial lots and so um but that that ordinance does not fit us19 because it requires a 75 foot buffer between um the business and a a residence and as you know you know when they took away some land on 19 um it that's just not possible so we we need to work on ours I I'm really not happy with the way our used car um dealerships look at all and frankly many of them are not supposed to be there they've never come in for site plan review and have done taken the steps to be a legal operating business so we we are working on ours um but I um I'm and I'm worried that if we don't fix ours guys we're going to get the leftovers that don't want to fix theirs in Newport Richie so we're we're going to be back because we've been able to move some of them out but I really like what you're doing I think it's a blight problem on 19 that needs to be addressed and um I would encourage us to to take a look at what you do doing on on the with the used cars they they Park in the driveways and I agree there's no parking spaces for customers show yeah so it's a problem we need to address commissioner starky I appreciate your comments and I do think a unified front is very important on this issue and I was hopeful that you'd like it so I brought a copy of our ordinance to share with you in case you were the administrator asked for it so I'll be sure to pass that along definitely Mr chairman uh yes sir um commission St you and I had discussed briefly and I'm not sure if the county while we're on the subject of us19 has implemented this yet or not we were talking about signage some of those old

very large signs that y'all were looking at if a business is no goes out of business for a certain amount of time then you require them to remove the older larger signs is that something you guys if you could Enlighten us on doing and this is from our original sign ordinance and we're we're tweaking it to make it even better to do some sun setting um but as you know all our new signs cannot be higher than 11 ft then they have to be monument and they're supposed to have some kind of architectural detail I've seen some signs come up recently that do not have any architectural detail so I don't know what happened we have a new sign reviewer something that the staff county has to look into but um so then you're left with non-conforming signs the signs that are the old the old signs and right now if a business is vacant for 6 months then that sign becomes non-conforming it has to be turned into code and um and then they notify the owner of the property um that that in 6 months the sign will have to come down or be cut at the 11t height and if you notice at least in my district which I drive almost daily and I call them in and I have other people calling them in we have removed a lot of the oldfashioned old rusty nasty signs you might remember that big Ice Cold Air that that square sign that was damaged um we have a couple more getting ready to come down and um and it's been real effective in in changing the look of of the community and so I um believe we're working on and our new sign ordinance where we're looking at maybe um allowing electronic signs getting rid certain types of electronic signs not the kind that spin or Flash okay but a a one that may change a message um uh and we're going to get rid of a temporary sign because they are a code enforcement nightmare to have our code enforcement go out and see if they have the little sticker on the back because we only allow temporary or Banner signs certain amount of times of the year and then all those Flappy flly you know signs that um are very distractive well as as I understand it our new sign ordinance we after a workshop it we're trading electronic message signs for temporary signs because they won't need them anymore because the message can change so that that's what we have going on with our sign then maybe maybe we should be um taking note and working with them you know to update our sign ordinance to match their sign to build that match car dealerships with car dealerships councilman um Davis the staff does have a draft sign ordinance but I'll coordinate with administrator biles to see if there are some things that we can change about ours to improve it or twist their are to what we're not so we're so we're on the same page Yeah well yeah 11 foot is really high um high enough for the kind of speeds that we have when you um my ex-husband's in the sign business so I know more than I want to um when you're on a highway and going fast then

you have a bigger sign but when you're in a suburban area and you're going slower and the and the signs are closer to the road they're fine to be 11 ft and many places are in lower than that that's kind of the way that works in the sign industry chair Mr Marano go ahead you going to ask about the I you touch on that yeah all right so we'll start with the U lean vendor um before I get to that though I want to say I think you guys have done a phenomenal job your Sims Park revitalization that Splash Pad we're actually got a county one coming up now too so I think it was a great addition that you what you've done down there on the lake itself I mean you did great using your money that you get from the restar to really Spruce that whole thing up and the downtown I think is woring because of all the uh good things you're doing down there I'm glad to see Main Street Landings coming too so I want to give you accolades for all that uh on the uh Leisure Lane vendura uh the county loaned uh Habitat Humanity $500,000 to go buy 51 Lots my understanding is we can actually still even buy more lots that are out there uh we've worked with them they've done a great job taken down a lot of homes and you know just being down there yesterday seeing what's out there is really happening we got some great things going when we had a meeting with habitat and commission councilman starky and manager d man you were both there and we talked about I wanted to see the the cost that was like $1.5 million and I wanted to make sure that you guys were going to look at taking away your impact fees are going to be part of that because it was going to be detrimental to the project and happily you came back to me just a little while ago saying you're willing to go do that I want to make sure that this project is done I don't want to see it take a long time and I'm excited about what we have going on now uh between the annexation and working together I I think we should be making this a top priority project anding even if you're just a budding until those indexations happen I think we should work together with the state legislature to get the funding for this this is a critical project it's a very very key juncture right now there was one lady who was on NBC News the other day where they were under this tree which by the way I found out the tree that's on that next to that lady's house is actually part of it on the county right away so if we have the will we can go take that tree down uh and that'll take a hiding place or a shelter place where they're going to go lady had to go put up a fence to protect the property I still think we do the channel in the back but from what I'm told somewhere in city property there's a a feeding souret out there that keeps those people right in play all the time so that's that's something we need to work at as far as dealing with it and that'll I think take care of some of the homeless population there we've got an ordance we're looking at putting together right now we're going to kind of work with our rental

registry to kind of incorporate it but when we have people that have homeless people live in the property that we make them go clear the property out so it's space safe for law enforcement to actually go in there and make that move but um I'm happy to talk more about that Le Lan project as far as working together to get that done because working together we can make it a lot quicker and I think get the legislative support I me defer to commiss Wells we can touch in yeah I was going to say I thought where Mr Bobs where are we at with the annexation I know we talked about trying to realign things with the cities well all the city both cities to kind of how you doing mayor good to see you good to see sorry I went to the nice County building on the other side of town just try to get it somewhat organized I mean I know we had I thought we had this meeting it's been a long time time I'm just surprised we haven't this hasn't come forward with anybody so I guess now is a good time to any to update me us on what we're doing if anything with the city I and again I agree I think it does make sense that but I know we had talked about maybe even enough to Green Key trying to break it to where there's not so streets here streets there we have the same issue with Port Richie I don't mean to say issue but the same you know in response to the question commissioner Wells the County Administrator and I continue to have discussions about annexation what the city's asking for specifically is to enter into an interlocal agreement as it relates to eight enclaves that exist in the city enclaves are locations like Leisure Lane voran Avenue where you're surrounded by the city anal or sides the last time I had a a conversation with the administrator there were some indications [Music] um that some discussion needed to occur related to our CRA district and we have have not had that discussion yet I thought you didn't want leiser lean you want it you do want it you do want it yeah the the re the reason is that let me just say a little bit about that you know location location location I mean the Southgate Shopping Center arti so as soon as those people come and you know Pander around and harest the people South Gate then they run back into the County area and we really can't chase them you know they go back and then we tear down one of the houses and they move to the next house and tear that house down they move to the next one so um we kept hearing for x amount of years that you didn't have you know the U the staff and people to enforce what really needed to be done there you know well it's in our it's like a block away from our neighborhood we can go over there and do it so we're very interested but but to touch our CRA that's not that's not helping us take some of our CRA money out if we we take it that because we'd actually be trying to promote building that area up building it up

with habitat and whoever else might be coming to pick up the other I know 50 to 75 lots that are in there Mr chairman with your permission the other item commissioner um Wells related to the timing of the project we um are very interested in getting as much County dollars invested in the project as possible before we take it over because at that point um you may be precluded from spending sources of funding like block grant for instance in that project and so the administrator and I are trying to navigate the timing of that so that we can capitalize on what investment is possible on your part first Mr chairman so if I may ask then publicly I'm I guess I'm not up up to speed what does annexation of leion Lan and vandoran have to do with our C CRA boundaries anything uh I I mean if you look at you've been blighted the whole city so it's all in the C so for us to go take tax taxable property now not it's worth a lot of money right now to go move it in and then weaken our tax base even further I think we need to go relook at what's really blighted and what's really not I mean you got multi very high value homes that are in the blighted area should they be blighted I don't know what is there a definition legally blighted yes yes in the statute so should we not be following the statutes on blighted property well blighted neighbor let me jump in please uh I sit on the State Board of the Florida Redevelopment Association and that's the organization that deals with mostly the larger cities and the smaller cities become like Main Street cities generally speaking so our city of 16,000 people is not the size of many of the larger cities that have robust crra but our downtown serves over 250,000 people and the all of the planning documentation that you all have done since you've got your award-winning planning uh program that resulted in the harbors and said West Pasco is worth saving you should look back to your older areas causes you to be in the Redevelopment business as well as us you know pinelis county is starting to create cras for the sole purpose of investing tax value growth into the areas that need it because the the new developers are up and down 54 and 56 and Trinity and Wesley Chapel it's difficult to find people to rehab uh properties on the west side so uh just want to correct one thing if that property came into uh the CRA all the property taxes that the count is currently collecting would continue to be kept by the county the CRA only takes the additional increment to the tax base and allows it to help offset the cost of construction of infrastructure our City's got some really aggressive in infrastructure Improvement ideas that hopefully are following your county plan so I appreciate your comment about money being taken from the county but as a lifetime City resident who's paying right now for your fire station improvements like everyone else in the county your Recreation Center

improvements like everyone else in the county who's providing all our Parks everyone in the county for free and who's providing our library services to everyone to County for free you know there's a way that staff can sit down and look at what's fair but I do think it's um it's not material to the overall budget of the county to to suggest that the city's taking anything you know CRA only make money as property values are increased and that's our mission and it's your mission so so hopefully you'll recognize that we understand the purpose of the CRA and that we we have a big uh responsibility as a little city trying to represent when you lock at Bay News 9 what do you see Newport Richie's entry at the bridge we represent Pasco County as your city on the west side and Port Richie does as well and Port Richie and Newport Richie are just right there at the river right there at the Apex of everything on the West Side uh my pitch to you is um there are there's been in the resulting police required needs code enforcement efforts that our city will have to take place and do uh with our meager budget we're willing to do it um I would just beg you to say whatever we can increase in value in our city is going to be a value to the entire County uh and ought not be a topic of disagreement okay we're following the law when we're talking about the annexation I hadn't seen those property lines actually looked at them they go in and out around around the city Newport Richie and also for Richie just like we do over in like jeer Hills area in dayt city where they're enclaves around both cities yeah yeah there there's a there's actually a place on Massachusetts there's two bars next door to each other one's in the city and one's not yeah we have the same thing on the east side but uh when we're looking at all that we do need to straighten that out and straighten those lines out cu it helps everybody do their job better especially during storms and things that we're getting involved in um when it comes to the CRA uh we need to be sure I don't know if we got to do the annexation before but we need to look at those cras and ask I new newort Richie and also Port Richie when the fact is that you're going to redraw your boundaries so that you those areas that are not slum areas are not blighted areas when you're going to take them out of those cras that's that's a question from the county M Mr chairman yes sir if I might uh during my last election campaign I I ran into a a neighborhood that has a Newport Richie mailing address but is actually part of Port Richie in order for Port Richie police and fire to get there to service their residents they have to drive into Newport Richie and then make a turn and go onto a road that takes them into howy and then they take another Trend that brings them back into Port Richie it's crazy stuff we had a lady came up to us at a at one of our Council meetings and said half of her yard is in the city and half it's in the county if her husband had a heart attack in the backyard she

was going to drag him to the front yard so that she could call us it it it's that's the sort of stuff that just needs to be fixed we shouldn't have we we shouldn't have Parcels that are half one half the other uh and and as far as the the the issue with the uh community redevelopment agencies and as it applies to Leisure Lane if if if you wanted a textbook definition of blighted and slum you don't need to look any further than Leisure Lane and vandoran that place is exactly what the community redevelopment agencies ought to be spending money on fixing up the problem within the the city and it was mentioned that there's some multi-million dollar homes that are sitting in a CRA area that's correct but then across the street from them or a block away there's lowincome housing and there it's it it's just a mishmash and so it's very hard to come up with something that would would take out individual Parcels chairman please well some of those areas like we're talking about we you've got funds and excess funds sitting in accounts we as a county would like to know what newort and po Rich you going to do with those funds are you going to return them to the state or and I think there's probably two or three different ways you do that but we need to know the answer from y'all to let let us know okay if I may um as City major mans pointed out there's a few enclaves that we're talking about as far as annexation these are not higher income areas we're not trying to Annex seat forest and Gulf Harbors and Golf Harbor Woodlands these are areas that are lower income they're not addressed proper by code enforcement because the county is such a large body that you all have to have to um you know send Cod code enforcement all over we just thought it would be better for the residents of both the county and the city for these areas just to square off let us go in there with our code enforcement get them cleaned up so I just I want I know you're from the East side I just want to point out that these are not higher inome areas these enclaves these are lower inome neighborhoods with cars parked in the front yards run down vehicles on the side of the Yards that's the kind of thing you see when you drive through these enclaves I see we have that same kind of is I'm sure you do and I see some folks here that I was watching on the meeting back by the um at the County Commission meeting last week regarding the mayner beach area there's some very nice homes in mayner Beach there's a homeless population back there as well there's flooding issues there's roads that need repaved and like they pointed out during the meeting one person may be in the city limits and right across the street their neighbors in the county that's what we're trying to address so I just wanted to point that out we're not going after high high net worth areas with these onpls by any means yeah what will it take uh I guess Mr B Mr SP H to move forward on these annexation areas to get us going the right direction the city has has chosen

the method of Statute has two two different methods city has chosen the interlocal agreement method which means that you all have to sign off on these residents coming in the other method is that that they could take them in if I less than 25 residents um but then it would they would have to get 60% of those people to agree to it okay so that there there are two the statutory Enclave annexation has two different prongs inter local agreement is what the city has tendered to C okay Mr chairman I'd like to address your question too also to say that to your request that some areas of our city are not blighted perhaps don't in your mind meet the definition as individual neighborhoods while the city as a whole May um I'm open to that discussion as well I mean we have U some gated communities that uh and the Brier patch right off of Trouble Creek which is I think they manage their own Road improvements within there so if we find some areas that aren't going to get the benefit of some of our CRA infrastructure Investments uh I'm certainly welcome to Entertain You Know modifying our district as we expand some areas and subtracting some others what's important to us is that we have your full support because as a small City again along with Port Richie which is even smaller than us you know we need your support to help us to be that Catalyst to help the West Side uh change its its Vibe and it's happening in the city now so Now's the Time to do it Mr Wells I'm glad you brought that up and that's that's kind of where I was going with this is I understood and in conversations in the past about this that you still wanted to keep the CRA Citywide you weren't going to make any adjustments but if you're telling me that you're going to make adjustments to those eight enclaves and take some out of the CRA and keep those in the CRA that my opinion is what the CRA is for it is blighted areas I would be willing to to look at that and try to fast TR the to but I didn't understand that to be the case well I'm I'm just one person and I we haven't had that discussion I'm just saying I think that that's a dialogue I agree with you I think we've talked about this uh quite a few times over the years and we need those answers and I think you'll find us Mr B yeah well in so the inter local as drafted by the city and presented to us authorizes them to expand their C to cover all the new annexed areas MH and doesn't reduce any areas as you're talking so that's that's where the current DFT Mr chairman Mr understanding was that's was our County administrative struggle was those weren't being flexible to be moved around so that's willing as commissioner well says the gr you want to have that discussion and go down that road that's fine we go take a look at it may I make a suggestion may I make a suggestion that you appoint someone from your staff and we appoint someone from our staff and we look at those demographics neighborhoods and make a proposal and bring it back to the two of

us because I think we would all like to see it it's not so that's my job it's you our both you work on that and Elizabeth is helping me on Jeff's side okay all right so let's see a a boundary proposal we're having a c we're having a c meeting this evening so we can discuss that as well I understand where the County's coming from but there's there's two main things to issues to look at when we talk about that Brier patch is a great sub a great subdivision to use shouldn't that's one you could take out of C boundaries um Woodridge Estates off of Massachusetts right BR car arms on the left three it's a newer neighborhood deed restrictions three streets numerous homes though that could be something but like like the mayor had said though unfortunately with some of the planning that went on in the City of Newport Richie over several past decades you do have nice homes and then you have a triflex across the street with very low income so that's a challenge we have and that's why we're trying to to address it almost Citywide but there are certain areas like like councilman Alman brought up where I think we we could are negotiable to if we bring on these enclaves and we want to try to redevelop those areas then yes there's give and take so we can discuss that this evening I don't I don't really think we're thinking yes we're really not looking at hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in this exchange either whether whether Brier PR is included or not I'd like to bring up another opportunity that's out there um opportunities zones um we've got them scattered all over the county I was looking at my district all the way down through holiday whatever and I'm looking at where we're going and commission starky had brought pointed our last meeting we need to do something different along US 19 you know get we'd like to get some industrial near some more commercial won't be re as much as it better more residential more residential as well wey family so my thinking is and I approach the state the previous couple of weeks about trying to look at the opportunity zones along that cor if we concentrated on that if we if we have to do a trade out with the state to say instead of picking what we picked to go look at that so I think if you guys would take a look at what's in your city as far as opportunity zones let's go take a look at the corridor and if there's an opportunity to kind of change that and kind of realign it I think would a better uh better situation for us up and down Mr so I I've been meeting with developers and Property Owners on on the 19 Corridor met yesterday with the owner of universal Plaza actually and our um economic development office and um and so um you know we think that 19 at least in the county is not you know the retail Corridor anymore it's 5456 and then maybe one day 52 um but for now 54 56 and the the owner of that um strip that mall there told me even though they just put a whole bunch of money in to make those copper roofs make it look better he cannot rent out his I

mean and they're they're rent their their space around there going for $6 a PL which is crazy low no one's they're they're losing it on 19 so we need to reimagine what the purpose and the how that the function of that Corridor and so we're looking at um multif family um and light industrial even you know the buildings like true and metler to if you can find a big enough wouldn't it be great to have some more um work work opportunities up and down 19 quter retail and some of this commercial it's just it's just not mostly working so um we um we're looking at incentives incentivizing that um you know we're waving Mobility fees we're doing everything we can with our carrots to incentivize that but commissioner Mariano to your point about opportunity zones what they told me was yesterday the Fed Reds um relaxed the um rules on opportunity zones and they think they might expand and so for example Universal Plaza bumps up to an opportunity Zone and so we may be able to Annex that into that zone so we need to be very strategic and help um some of these Property Owners apply to to have it expand and um U but anyway I think 19 is needs to look different and feel different than it does today and we are going to have to incentivize that and chairman if I can say when she says we I mean I in my opinion I got to be careful the way no but she truly means we I mean this you need to be involved in that if we if we do something and ask something at a state level we all three need to do it together I mean those are things that no doubt we've come a long way since since I've been on the board it's neat to have these meetings and no matter if we agree or disagree we're all a team we all want the best for the counties and the cities so thank you and but I agree because we can do more together um up and down US 19 yeah I'll go along with that too because I just want you know what we've done downtown um Economic Development wise and now we have like a with a central coming in about a year and a half and this this fall uh Main Street landing's coming that's about 180 units times two three four people per per unit so um they're looking for we're looking for some opportunity zones as far as as far as employment for these people and not just working in restaurants and and you know things of that sort you know so we're looking at that and plus we're you know we have uh 46% rental in the city so and a lot of those are you know people aren't you know bought those houses back in the 80s and they still haven't really they painted them that's about all they've done mowed along you know so but there's still houses from the 60s and 70s so you know if the opportunity come where these people make more money you know then then they'll go back and they'll you know B purchase these houses or they'll renovate the places and you know we'll we'll step take it up a step and I think that if I can give an example Tampa I never hate comparing to something but that's what they did with the Soho District in Tampa you know they brought in they got the

restaurants they got the apartments in there and then people move out to go to work so you know we can do the same thing here like to touch subject I love what you guys are doing with your Motel ordinance you know one of the biggest things that's supposed to happen is when you have hotels and motels it's supposed to revitalize you're bringing fresh money Etc and these permanent stays they're not they're not doing anybody any good uh so I like what you're doing I'd like us to go take a look at that as well um you stay if I could I want to kind of get into green key as you as you mentioned um I would love to see this kind of like we did at Hudson Beach we kind of pav the road all the way through fix the drainage in it all the way through and now it's like people are are loving to go up there and feel real good about it I think we should be able to do the same thing in the whole green carer and redoing that road I like the fact that you by the way did MAV fantastic thank you uh and I saw you you were doing Main Street as well so now I think if we can look at doing Green Key um fix the drainage we we kind of took a look at some opportunities we had with our staff I talked to Mr Rivera right beforehand and Mr Carbell they can work together and put a plan together what we need to do for drainage and then I'd like to do what we call an areawide Paving assessment County City together let's go take a look at it you guys can have your own funding source if you don't do assessments but whatever if you guys are going to be able to take care of yours we can take care of ours assess our people and redo the whole area maybe Deb you could explain to him our our Assessment program okay we have a program in L of Assessments and we do an annual program um the city invests $1.8 million per year and it's Road Improvement um project and we actually put the fee right on the taxes for all of the property owners within the city and I'd be glad to talk to you about it in more detail but it's been a very successful program for us in that it has eliminated sort of the the public descent that is sometimes associated with special assessments the the average household spend around $8 a year wow you know and that you know hits you know you last year we did our main two roads were um Madison and Congress excuse me this year is Massachusetts and Gulf Drive and then the rest of the money is put out in the neighborhoods we've assessed the whole city um on on the order which need is going to come so we'll be putting you know in this money this um household money that we're getting per year is 100% of that goes into pay you know no other you know we have to get penny for Pasco or any of these other types of act other areas where we get to do the you know other um portions whether it's Landscaping whether it's you know um drainage or anything like that so you know 100% of it's going to pay they were it's been a very effective program yeah people love it yeah Mr chairman I I would like to to run from

What U commissioner Mariano just came up with about the going out to Green Key Road and I would like to suggest that anything that that we do with that we make sure that we've got a real multi-use path that sits right on the side of it as we're we're designing it uh City of Newport Rich E's done a number of uh multi-use Trails uh so far in the city we've got more in planning uh the county has done a a wonderful job in setting up multi-use trails that tie out ultimately to the Sun Coast Parkway and someday all the way to the east coast uh being able to to make all of West Pasco very bikable uh and very walkable I think it is absolutely critical and to be able to get on your bicycle in Newport Rich your Port Richie for that matter and take a a safe ride all the way out to Green Key Beach would be just a wonderful fight I'll tell you what sh yeah we um when we looked at the staff we started from the top of Green Key Beach and walked our way back and we looked at how much width do we have sometimes we use parking sometimes not but we wanted to have a look at a couple of key spots we need to put in C to make get good flushing there might have to raise the road a little bit but they go all the way across that's just go as wide as you possibly can however we Mark the road set off the bounds for a trail to go up and down and I don't care it's a golf cart or a bike whatever however wide it can be when we get closer to the first buildings that come in there's actually a sidewalk that's there we said let's go from That Sidewalk area right there take the asphalt to it have it pitching slightly down because there not enough room for the sale but have it slightly pitching down so the water will drain where it needs to drain at the same time make it as wide as we can and all the way down and then as we work further the same type of thing between the SES over there so the we should look we should look at um maybe narrowing that road I don't I don't know what the minimum with this for two-way traffic but that isn't a busy road and we may be able to um just narrow that road to the sa to a safety limit and gain the ability to add a pass without going into a whole lot of Boulder all but that that would be the first way i' want to try and do that and the the engineers are going to look at all that yeah and we own property out there and I don't know why we do right someone said that we own some property along that green key um uh entrance way I think it's on the right hand side the count the county has in Surplus property out there you you've got the Robert Crown property yeah and what are we doing that that's on the left that used to be Boy Scout Boy Scout yeah property it's bird sanctuary 10 or 12 acres at low tide and probably half that in high tide so do we have it in the El lamp program or is it I believe you do oh if it's an El lamp that's one thing I I didn't know it was in I said could use a sign that says Green Key Beach out on the highway if you or

unless we're trying to keep it a secret for f driv by I drove by my staff drove by all right we we've been talking around different issues but let's go on let's hear from uh Port Rich at this time so certainly everyone in uh in the county and I dare say many people across the nation understand uh that our city has come from a very deep dark hole in the past seven months we now have a new uh three member addition to our Council we have a mayor and two more Council people and I can tell you uh categorically that this city has turned a significant page in its history the the uh City will be moving forward on many of uh projects different areas um the city of Port Richie is essentially the divided into um a a major commercial uh sector along 19 a recreational uh Center along the Waterfront and a large residential area that that uh each one of these three areas is beginning to come alive again and city council is uh currently attempting to uh ensure that the new growth that we're about to receive it fits in with the overall picture and the overall direction that the city would like to go in we have a brand new housing uh development that is under construction at the end of old poost we several 100 new uh tow houses and homes there we have interest in uh two other very viable pieces of property for additional growth um on the plus we have uh quite a bit of new infill occurring in the city and reconstruction of uh of some of the older properties at the same time um jointly with the uh uh our sister City Newport Richie and of course uh the state we've been undergoing a modernization or upgrading of the median median program on US 19 which is part of the main commercial uh dividing line uh down our our city we have um with respect to the uh issues that we have parking traffic particularly in the Waterfront area we're beginning to address in a more manageable way uh we're looking at the feasibility of altering the traffic patterns have traffic studies ongoing uh we are U there is currently a discussion between um a developer uh along the section of 19 and Grand Boulevard uh potentially construct Kaiser University uh at that location uh with a sizable portion of that property being turned into parking um that will be uh generally utilized by anyone uh coming into the area particularly on weekends since that University does not have a very heavy weekend presence but we have U expansion of um a marina uh there's a exchanges of property along the Waterfront uh that are beginning to affect uh how that Waterfront is a

recreational area is perceived we have um new several New U restaurants um we also have um an expansion of an ongoing uh recreational and restaurant facility there we're looking at changing that road pattern we've been working with um uh our sister city and uh uh our good friends here in the county on our expension of our Bike and Hike Trail um we have um uh instituted several programs to assist uh lower income individuals in our community as far as refurbishing some of their properties we are U keenly uh interested in continuing our our uh good relationship with the county uh the County Administrator and the staff has worked very closely with us as has many of the Commissioners on some of the potential problems in our in our uh City uh we continue to move uh forward um and and uh I believe we have an extremely bright new future um given the current circumstances of of the uh recent elections several days ago um and the installation of the two new County Commissioners uh uh I'm sorry the city council members um the city um has a entirely new attitude and it's palpable among their residents um so we've worked very closely with the County Administrator and County staff uh out in the candle Lake District we've redone uh on our own uh Washington Street we're about ready to uh Place new sidewalks going from Washington Street all the way down to 19 um along Grand Boulevard uh we're moving forward we uh revamped our uh our uh Code Compliance enforcement section um so uh the city uh U has um has and is moving forward uh there are many uh issues that will come before this new Council um to determine the path that we're going to take and that path may take a radical turn from previous administration's directions um but all those turns are in keeping with the future of the the city um our c c uh function uh we have u in the past uh three years continually reduced the dependency of U uh of part of the budget for staff on the CRA down to uh from 60 something perent at one point in time down to under 20% uh at this time manageable and within the next budget even even further reduction from that perspective that has been a sore Point uh with um not only uh the county but also um uh with the city Administration over the past three years years that those directions uh have been clear we've upgraded our our our water production and distribution facility um uh we are uh keenly aware of the importance of of our uh ability to uh produce uh extremely uh to produce efficiently a a high quality U water product and to distribute that throughout our wood distribution system we worked to upgrade all of our lift stations uh under a new uh system we've undertaken a new Billing System with respect to our utilities so um piece by

piece the city is has picked itself up and is moving in a positive forward Direction and if I may I'm certainly going to answer any questions that you have and I and again I'd like to express Express um this City's appreciation for the uh the work of your County Administrator and his staff we we meet uh frequently uh as we do with our sister City Newport Richie many of the issues that you discussed a couple of moments ago um also deeply impact our community um we have uh a large large a group of people who believe they're in our city but they are not uh but they are by post of some uh we have some other issues uh with respect to to U boundaries but but that's something that we we can get into it at a future time um we continue to move uh to address the um boating issues on our River the p pth JY River um is a Mecca uh we have a boat ramp that we're in the process of upgrading where's that uh right um in our Waterfront area off of Park yeah right alongside of it's called Nicks Park Nick Park yeah uh we're in the process of upgrading that ramp and we'll be redoing that Park we've been working deeply on our Waterfront Park which is just slightly up the road on Old Post we've modernized that we're continuing to do that along with Brasher Park which is further up the end of Old Post and u u uh Winslow and uh olner so we have those locations and we are attempting to service um um anyone who comes to uh our area with both um recreational uh possibilities residential possibilities and Commercial possibilities and now educational possibilities so we're moving forward in that direction and I stand ready to answer any questions that you might have for the city of Port Rich questions thank you how far obviously the ramp you know I use quite a bit um and I used to work for the city so I used to clean the bathrooms and stuff but I'm proud of that that was back when well we were there together back then so with May P um you're lucky can't be turned out yeah no they're lucky to have it but so I mean that um so I know we've talked in the past and I know we've worked together with the piece property had a ridge and the candle IDE deal to to work together to to get things done and we'll always do that but when it comes to like the ramp I know we've discussed maybe Partnerships and I know because it is kind of the key to the county the city um so just kind of keep us in the loop maybe with what you're talking about doing the extent of it um yes we we've obtained a grant uh and we're in the process of moving forward uh on the expansion of that of that ramp uh it's in process uh as we speak uh once that that begins will modify that that Park section and again with the uh potential of development of a large parking area at Grand Boulevard in Old post a lot of

the pressures for parking and utilization of that facility will probably alter also as you know the owners of the property directly across from Nicks Park have opened it for specifically for parking uh for uh boat uh um enthusiasts I would suspect that that at some point in that time the county may may uh uh like to discuss with the city the potentiality of purchasing that property and turning it into a a viable uh open parking area but that's a discussion that uh it it's sometime in the future I would believe okay and our our Council are new Council there many different issues uh to wrestle to resolve may I comment on that parking um I I do think that is the key to uh really opening that area up for Meaningful Redevelopment and and I think that that we're going to have to do it in Partnership and I think that's going to be a structured parking lot I think I think we have to go up um and there there are ways to make Revenue off of structure of parking and I think we should explore that that opport together if I might uh commissioner I could agree with you more that was a thought that the city had back in the 9s at one point in time and uh it it should have occurred uh it just has not I believe the finances are part of the problem again we're a small City uh 30 approximately 3,000 residents uh our budget is small uh uh however we've been fortunate enough to work with the county and move forward in in a lot of different uh directions and areas and maybe there's I don't I don't know but maybe there's a grant or appropriation we can ask for together because without parking in that area will not realize its full potential for the for the community yeah we can we certainly uh look forward to to working with the county staff I grants we of course we work with the restore act uh committee on uh several different uh potential developments and that's something that we're still uh investigating but uh I look forward to working with you all that issue I'm sure my count my my Council Knows Mr Mariano thank you Mr chairman you know speaking of the restor committee um I was proud when we worked together to put 667 Grand into be a drudging plan and I believe the plan was about $3.2 million or so to do the whole overlay district and when you get the first part done what you guys did on your own from from making the progress you had uh you didn't quite finished the whole bit of it there was some still some uh dredge materials left over and at the time you guys were being assessed to be in a class one landfill which going to cost you a lot of money um I would have liked to see you try to go back to D Army Core try to work that down and made that recommendation and that didn't happen um I tried to work and went to your board at least three times fully describing exactly what could be done to

couldn't get all the way to the Oyster Bed the water flow was dramatically improved but could have been better so when I say to you looking at the best value you would have had four canals you could have possibly got all the way through which would improve the water flow not that it's going to help with a storm Sur comes over the banks anyway but when the water's got to get out if those canals were open wider the water would have flow and even Swift by themselves when I talked with them about that they said we couldn't probably give you the full uh benefit of the whole Canal for for Cooperative funding but we could probably go to wherever the Water full benefit would be to match up with it so I'll just leave it at that but I'm just saying I was disappointed with that especially after make other trips to you let me ask another question just add one thing sir goad at that point in time during the bidding process uh we were under a uh deadline as as far as the permits were concerned so our permits were were running out at the time and we were looking to potentially potentially uh obtain extensions to those permits that however we were we were pressured at that point in time by those uh termination sequences to move forward again none of us was really particularly happy with the uh uh with one bid but it was after 30 something people attempted to look the project only the one person bid uh so that's that's the city's position it it it is and if it were to occur that still would be a benefit to that one section of of the uh River and if we get to move even privately on her own to extend 26a it would benefit the the U uh towards the Park area again the original project was a three fa as you well pointed out a three-phase project um and this goes back to the efforts uh back in 2014 uh when this project started but it was a 3phase project and and given the million doll total number 666 from and 333 that we already spent on this project um it was decided to turn it into one the first phase the first phase was to include the dredging uh of some of those canals uh some street lights Street uh work and some U uh sidewalk activities uh bidding unfortunately came in at 629 that's 629 of the 666 uh barring any incidential changes uh ate up the entire million dollars in in as much as we already put in 333 already expend expended those funds so that's about where we stand with that project we still we still are looking hard and our Council has to come to grips with the issues surrounding it and as I told you though as far as that the argument about the permit's expiring I told you from swiftmud I told you from the head of D that they said submit the plan let's go look at all all the channels submitted go as far as extending the permits there was no resistance from DP to make that happen we could have worked with the appy for and if I may address Mr Mariano this is a a decision that was wasn't actually made by Mr Lup was a council decision

that we had to vote on um you have to understand that this was Federal grant money that we were given with specific plans that we had to follow we weren't able to come in as a council um and and change things because we had certain guidelines we had to follow the other thing that we came into our deadlines um the dredging project has been going ongoing for 9 years and really hadn't made a whole lot of Headway until we came in as a new Council and what we were faced with is can we dredge the main Canal that in essence links the river to the bou which is a great need to all our citizens which we had the money in hand um and the the the bid that you're talking about was 629 but that wasn't just a dredge the existing Canal we also had um uh landfill of of waste from prior dredges that were still sitting there so a lot of that money was expended um from a previous project that was kind of left over that we had to deal with financially um in budget um the other problem that we ran into were time constraints um these bids when we put it out put it out for a long period of time had 33 different um dredging companies that would be able to work with the federal funds that would be qualified review it um and and out of it because of the nature and the political climate in our city as well as as the nature of the bid in terms of size only one um company elected to put a bid however looking at bids around it still fell within what we felt was a reasonable price um for a deep water dredge along um our Waterfront that links our valou to the river um which Services most of our boating community the canals that you're speaking of dredging um are in essence canals that link people's backyards uh to the Bayou um and it's our opinion we didn't see any engineering plans or the history of Florida D War Swift M were coming in and funding deep water dredge into people's backyards and having not seen that history and being up against uh time constraints as well as um having previous plans already drawn out from previous Council that obtain the federal money that's the decision that we made had you been better informed you have known that you could have had the flexibility to extend with this treasury to go further it could have got extended into the permits and also the Port Richie Outlaw which is the big water water body that buts those four channels I result all part of a storm water organization plan that's part of Swift M's property part of the county actually help water get flowed out to the gulf so it was a unique situation which I think if you had more information I know you were just under the gun just getting in there but I think it could have been a much better decision but you have to understand too the faar of the city is having this money that um goes unspent and we lose the funding because we're unable to to complete the bid in a timely fashion and we lose our permit so certainly that was one of the concerns that we had and we wanted to make sure

that we utilize that money for the best interest of all the people that utilize their waterfront property our citizens okay at this time thank you I think we've been moving on pretty good we um I think we discussed some things that we've gotten some direction on is annexation and working with Mr with each of the cities and get some of that done then uh also I want you to look in at the cras and how you look at those areas and let us know what your determination is in those areas that need to be out of out of there redraw your boundaries let us know about that and then how you going to um we're not allowed to the cities are not allowed to keep that excess funding let us know how you're going to do that and you go back through Mr BS with that and this time uh turn back over Pasco County well are we going to talk about the bike trail yeah that's what that's next can M since at the table I'm the chairman of the no board um we sent a letter I'm urging you as soon as possible I know you have some new council members on board but we really need you to fill that seat on the no board we have one no board member who's willing or running out of patience and talking about taking away your seat which in my op opinion being a sister city in West PCO County it's very very important to for you to have a representative on that board it's been several several months now so if you could go back to your Council figure out who has availability to do so it would really behoove you to to get someone in that chair yeah be good the only other comment that I wanted to make since we're talking about one of the things that I see in our near future that needs to be addressed that deals with both cities uh in the uh the county um the county has done a really good job in terms of utilizing money to move water and and improve its infrastructure um and a lot of that move that that money was used to move water from that Ridge Road area down Ridge Road towards where there's a trailer park and where our city begins and our city obviously is much uh in a much lower area so flooding is one of our biggest concerns we have some flooding issues that are in that area as well as the calite area which is where you have that funny annexation that we were talking about and one of the things that I see in our near future is that we may have to or may want to look at a joint venture in terms of improving the infrastructure um to move that water the rest of the way across Grand and and I think into the river and or um getting a parcel of landlock land for Reservoir in terms of holding the water um but I think the best way to do that because it does affect houses and both cities as well as houses in the county um the best way to do that is going to be a joint venture at some point in the near future so I just wanted to to say that's one of the projects that I think we're going to be coming to we have a storm water project that touches on part of that area the 4 outfall we do have one that we're working well and we have the

process with swift mode I think hid hidden lake is one of our projects we're looking in the future to help out in areas too so and play we are looking at those and U we'll look into it that's one that that we would be interested in in helping especially if there's some funding issues that need to be help it affects our citizens as well so certainly would be in a position to help with that we'll get you an update on where that project is I think that's about the 30% stage but we'll get you an update oh yeah those are all good projects and and we're your citizens are our citiz so we look at it together yes did you want to say something um yeah I just want to touch on a couple other things that we're talking about annexation and I don't think this is really annexation but we're talking about exchange I'd like to get this on the table that we're looking at exchanging properties as far as the Health Department downtown versus plumber field and so I'd like that to move along as far as you know those discussions and move on to see if we get that taken care of they're pretty close you want to say something well de and I have talked about that quite a bit the challenge is we still need a place for the health department to go so until they land on the spot and I know they're working that right now all right I just well this is we we we've had conversations I know that and I just wanted to bring that been here all right um also um um what what could you tell us a little bit of what your plans or thoughts are about the golf course at Magnolia Valley CU I know that a project was brought to you as far as an event center in a water park and that was kind of turned away wow I can we can we go to 4 a and do that and then come back and then I'll answer your question we do have a project on but we have a consultant that's been sitting here for a while 4 a so we got to go 4 a and then we'll come back we'll come back okay all right go ahead hi County and today we're going to provide you with status update Trail Phil study I want to [Music] introduce with a for us we I think you got to talk louder yeah is microphone with theet is the microphone is that microphone working yes it is all right let's take them sure s it's all good this want to come a little bit closer good afternoon uh good afternoon can everyone hear me okay very good um Paul Curts with aeom thank you Mar Helen for the introduction again this is a status update on the uh the Cody River Trail project that we're involved with we're assisting with the county with this planning study and this is basically a status update really the purpose of the meeting here is to solicit feedback from this group and get some direction on how we move forward so

that's really what we're hoping to get at the end of the day um everyone is familiar with the study area the map on the right is really what we're looking at how do we get from the west side over to the east side across 19 we've done a series of public Outreach events there was one that many of you here attended uh in addition to um some key property owner owners meetings and that leads us here to today during that past Workshop we got some interesting ideas about how to kind of make a more connected Harbors here again we're just focused on the crossing at 9 by the river and we did get some interesting ideas on how that was going to work one of the main things we heard though was that the desire for golf carts so this is a graphic from the connected city which has already been approved so it's basically 18 ft wide 12 feet for the golf carts and uh five or six feet for the bikes and Peds there based on that we basically came up with four Alternatives two that accommodate a golf cart on the top and then two that are purely multi-use Trails which would not accommodate a golf cart let me tell you a little bit about each of those so the first one does accommodate a golf cart it stays all within the us19 RightWay no property would be required for this particular um alternative it would take some tall retaining walls as there are steep slopes along 19 there on the west side there there are a series of utility poles power poles that would need to be relocated we also looked at an option where you would come down um Baya with share rows and connect over through private property and then use the 19 property to come underneath it would would avoid the utility pole the power pole relocations with those little sinuous arcs there um but it would require some property some right of way to make this happen again this is a golf cart friendly 18 ft wide the other two are basically the companion multi-use versions of these same thing it would be a a twail that's not quite as wide about 12 feet in width this one would also not require any right away very similar to the first option the second option also uses the same config figuration goes up Baya which with a series of share rows and then goes through private property does not relocate the utility poles would take less property to acquire just based on the width of the trail so what we did is we figured out we got some input from the group on how we evaluate those we've got five major criteria on how that works and once we've ranked those it turns out that alternate B and or route B and Route D were the preferred well ranked the highest that was one that accommodated a golf cart one that did not accommodate golf cart so we looked at those a little bit further and looked at how those might work so the first one again is the one that does require um the property taking this would accommodate a golf cart you come down Bay Lea with Sher R cross into private property go under the river and there'll be some little Loops there that avoid

the uh the utility pole the power pole relocation the areas in red are the uh potential areas that we would need to acquire right of way so in terms of how that would look the section on the top is looking down through the bridge there the section over water we've uh what we heard and what we've proposing is a concrete section there you need about 8 feet minimum there and we proposed to keep it as high as we can for flooding and future considerations so there a the one on the left is for the low tide the one on the right is for the mean high tide moving down a little bit further you can see on the top is the existing very steep slopes there in order to accommodate the golf carts we'll need some very steep walls some very tall walls there on both sides really and As you move further north the walls get less and less so by the time you get closer up to Grand it'll be back to grade the second route is essentially the same only it's narrow and width so all the same considerations it would require less R of way since there's less needed there the sections also look very similar this section didn't change under the bridge still with the 8 ft the walls would be a little shorter just because you don't need to go get as close to 19 other than that they're pretty much the same so in terms of cost we looked at these from a from a perspective of cost the one that does accommodate the golf carts would be in the $3.6 million range the one that does not accommodate the golf carts would be in the $2.9 million range and the differences really are have to do with height of walls property and things of that nature so that accounted for the the difference in the two rout Alternatives our next steps you can see where we've done to here that we were at the um The Joint Workshop today our next step is to really get some direction and feedback from this particular group and then we'll go to the mo for their October meeting um and get their get their feedback as well finalize the report and then look for funding for this as we move forward so um so at this point really would' like to have some discussion and and a potential selection of a preferred route by this particular group so please how much money was involved as far as buying the land from the land owners um the the two alternates were different I'm not sure it was actually a fairly small figure in that it was about 130 for the golf cart option that needed more land and and a little L than 90 for the one that did not so uh compared to the total cost of 3.6 million it was a relatively small amount so most of the money was in the structures the walls and in particular when you build a wall that close to the roadway you have to have you have to actually dig back further to get the supports that you need so it may have some impacts to what happens on the side of 19 there so there may be some sheep pile walls so it's it's a very

constrained area if you want to stay within the right way without purchasing more property so we triy to balance that um another question I could on the other side of catches there's a land that was not owned by them that's right that like to get would it be better than instead of having to build those big walls at least on that side if you could say to them let's do a land swap we will give you the land on the side there in exchange for that we'll want more land so I don't think we build this big wall that sounds like it's very expensive I'm just going to go back a SL see if I can address your question a little bit better so I think the I think what commissioner Marana is suggesting is that there's a parcel in this area right here that appears to be owned by a city of Port Richie um and I think there's some interest from these property owners in acquiring that since they also have that property now so you're asking about whether or not this property could be swapped for that property I'm not sure about the how that would work but I mean certainly a possibility well the point would be if you could make that swap happen and now all of a sudden instead of a big the wall build the big high wall so close to you could move it over to the parking lot mall maybe that works better to cut the cost down I think it's a possibility we also looked um the one thing that also happens here is once you do that those red areas right there it does have some impacts to their parking and know there there is some concern on their part about losing too much parking so even if we you know let's say that that's equal to the other one there's still impacts to their parking so like I said I just want if we had the conversation it might might be a viable conversation that would it could be I don't I don't think that you're going to get any uh less of a wall there because you still have the width to deal with right there so it maybe a little bit but um it's something to certainly consider though Mr chairman I'm I'm in favor of option b um I believe this city of newp would back that as well um question you how does have you you've obviously spoken to the low family who catches are they receptive to the idea of this this golf cart or multi path coming in cuz I spoken to Tim and when we had this um the workshop at Port Richie no one had even Tim low one of the owners um no one had at that point had reached out to the family or the owners of that that that's the one business that really is impacted I would say by whichever multi mode Transportation whether we go with golf carts without golf carts sure are they receptive to the idea of having this under pass oh we we did meet with them but the meeting that we had with them was um I'm not sure if we're in at Liberty to discuss what was at at that meeting so I I don't know I defer to to the county staff and I think along the side of their property right we did have a we did have a meeting with the owners of catches and they my my understanding was that the

the meeting result was confidential okay so I'm I'm sorry that I can't share that with you um all right so well I I'll say I'm going to say it was uncom I thought there was some flexibility which why I was asking those questions about the cross land to making the par work so I thought there was might be some flexibility and I did talk about that at the P so everything I've just said is I I don't think it's it's not confid they lost looking to if they were because I know they wanted that piece over there so I said well if we can make this work better because we did talk about how expensive it would be to go tight to that wall so I if we have more Flex moving over maybe it works better but we haven't gone further from that conversation that's correct once again to reiterate the city's position now that we're all here and if I'm speaking out of line out of term for any of any of you let me know but we were looking at this with the golf cart being the the the the huge impact for our city golf cart access to as an economic driver so our residents can get under the bridge safely to go to pasco's Waterfront which is important and so we have a lot of residents in pory that also own golf carts that do come to our downtown that can't do it in their golf carts they would prefer to so that's why the golf cart access was so important to us is that correct I can yes sir yes and for Richie shares that sentiment um we're moving towards the golf cart Community um same as Newport rich um the issue that we have is DOT regulations that don't allow us to cross 19 um and I don't know one of the things that I couldn't tell from this is whether or not DOT was going to allow us to put golf carts across the bridge um with the first plan which was the 3.6 million I think did that had the golf cart path because I think that would have to be addressed if we're going to look at that bit at all if not that leads us with $2.9 million B which is hikee and bike only exactly M and that's what kind of had me worked up at the first work sh was that and I was worked up and I apologize but I didn't hear anyone talk about golf carts and we're applying for grants for money that we're not sure if we can use for gol carts so it was just kind of I found out the day before the afternoon before that meeting was totally taken back because we had talked about using Pasco funding Pas for Pasco tourism funding just wherever we can get money to make this happen and it was a big surprise but we can Mr all right we put golf carts under underneath the highway we can't cross it at grade level am I correct well the the general do policy is that they do not allow that however there are exceptions to that their preferred method of allowing them is grade separated in this case it is grade separated because there's a bridge that goes over so grade separate meaning over or under in this case we're going under so there's a process that you have to go for um and it's not guaranteed but you have to go through the process so there are precedents that allow for for

that it's it's been recently changed so so just so you know we had a TMA meeting last month and uh Senator rousan was there and um so was the secretary and I brought this up that this was important and if we needed legislative help you know we could get it and and um and my secretary has now gone to work for the senator who's in charge of Ted appropriation so you know we got we have an ability to get someone's ear who's very important but I mean it's it's it's it doesn't make sense that you cannot go un to get people under the highway safely Mr chair I I can't imagine we have a problem with the the difference that we're talking about is spending almost $3 million for something that doesn't address the issue or spending a little bit more 3.6 million and doing it right I I haven't talked to my colleagues about this specifically because I just heard these numbers but from my personal opin op I think it would be money well spent to do the job right the first time for the mon chairman just uh the the project as it's uh identified the cost reflects just the parameters that we're seeing on here the city of newp Richie has in its budget to do you know the connection because Fort Richie waterfronts right there when you get across our downtown is a good ways off so we have a capital project to make that link and and I'm believing that that's the kind of the partnership effort that you're expecting from us when it comes to money we're having to fund that and so we want to obviously work work with you but just adding it's not just a $3.6 million project it's probably going to be a $5 million project or 4 million uh when we make the full connection between the cities all right uh with that is there anyone in the audience that we take public comment on this issue so does anyone in the audience wish to give a public comment this time anyone I see no one uh are we done with this subject cuz I have another did you get what you needed sorry I'm not look at you Debbie so uh the general consensuses move forward with 18t trail that incorporates off carts um aom will finalize the feasibility study we'll make the presentation to the N board and then the study will be finalized as part of the final part of the study will'll be looking at funding options that incorporate the golf cart and also the next steps that need to take place to get that special exception from fot that may require um letters of support from the different jurisdictions that we can attach to the application form that we submit to F do in making that appeal all right thank good okay so another project I want to talk about although I think this one Tak precedence is one that um council member Alman and I and Debbie have been working on for a little bit I think that was the very first meeting I sat in with you on when when um Michelle Baker was still here um you would just just come to us and that

is what we just called The Trouble Creek Greenway um but it their El lamp is um in discussions with the shika Dan piece um though it hasn't moved forward as much as I would like and the City of Newport Richie also has property along that right side of I guess I should say north side of Trouble Creek um and the concept is is that we would continue the bike trail the coastal LCL Trail around that edge and um and it would come to Eagle Point Park and and come through the eamp property that we would hope to acquire on the right and we have some easements and the C and the city has some property there already and um we already have permission from Scott fank to come through his property to connect it to the trail 19 so um we need to keep talking about that connection and keep moving it Forward um so I'm just bring it up to tell you still alive just not on fire and which would also have to include the overpass and Marine Parkway correct what that trail would have to include the eventually but we one piece out a time yeah okay yeah well he there was a question for Magnolia Valley I want to get back to we're done with this one and I think so that's part of the PT Richie outfall project that we're modeling right now with our con consultants and so it's about the the 30% stage and and once we get done with that we'll have an idea of what that's going to proba is going to look like more more in depth but in theory Magie mag Valley becomes a stor more storage area with some passive Parks pieces of it Trail and some other things that that we've talked about the the board's talked about but that's kind of the intent there but right now we're at about the almost to a 30% stage we're modeling it right now our Consultants modeling it right now looking at the various options um um you did a lot of work on the Harvest project um but I've never um got any feedback that the County's doing anything except presented the project are you the harbor yeah the harbor well hopefully you see the landscaping and um we have some more coming on the sides and well there's a lot more to just in landscaping in the harv yeah um and that is the planner in charge of it over there so it's a probably what a 10year old project the county does a significant amount we pay very close attention to development review within the harbors and U um we've worked part of the US 19 Landscaping project been working on this C River Trail underpass to try to link the city of Port V and Newport v um because ultimately would love to see s Park linked up with waterpr Park as well as provide for the economic Vitality of the Miller value area that area is a regional node within the harbor it's one of the primary Regional notes of in the harbor and we think that that that project is very important to what's happening um we are very involved in in reviewing any comprehensive plan

amendments um um there's a lot going on in the harbors from a a development perspective we're monitoring the private Investments um could you put out could you put out a um a a memo to catch us up on where you are with harb project sure we we can do that so just uh real quick I think from a public investment standpoint there's only been about 25 million a year invested in the now the harbor is a big area right Little Road West to the County Line North South so it's about the size of city of Seattle is that the one we let we drop the city of Seattle inside that that boundary that's how big that area is on the private side though that's where the action is happening I think over the last three years there have been averaged of about $180 Million worth of investment right that you there's been a ton of work going on it's just hard to see a lot of it so so there is a lot happening but we can get everybody the updated numbers yeah on that yeah just just kind of what you're looking at down the road y we can we can wrap all that into one yeah thank so I would add that we um are under construction with the coastal enk Trail which connects um uh to the city of Tarpon Springs over an existing um trail that the penel county is refurbishing um it'll connect P the pelis the ano River Park the ano Park and K Vista um we are um about to purchase the property that is the anklet River Park from duke we did a land swap plus through a couple million dollars and um we will be revamping that Park um we got the money already we're going to be fixing the boat um the uh the ability we're going to have ability to have more boats out there we're going to put out for bid uh for a restaurant on the water and some dock boat some docks you can come up to um to hit to go to that restaurant and some public some space for festivals and open space um we are investing in ke Vista Park with showing up that um Shoreline putting in some fishing fishing not a pier but a a deck fishing decks to keep people from suting in that channel which we're going to dredge and um so there's a lot of investment in that part of the harbors out on the coast the county when we did the um bond for the parks in Wesley Chapel um we added $5 million on for better Boer access on the coastline and we're also looking at kind of comprehensively looking at the coast and how can we better maximize the um possibilities of our of our Coastline because we own properties you know we bought that piece of property just past American Marina and it's just sitting there could be a great camping spot um so we're we're trying to look at the coast a little differently and then I don't if you want to talk about anything going on well why I brought it up is because you know we we've got an economic development guy in the city and and you know we want to sell coming to Newport Richie and it's easy to sell if we actually have the paperwork in front of us about the harbors we have the paperwork in front of us about you the numbers you know and Magnolia Valley

because we know that's a lot of open spot you know area too that if you approach your county if we knew how much would going to be left after this you know project you're working on Mr chairman let start you want to go um this ties in West Pasco County but all of Pasco and just while I have all the Commissioners here I've been this is something I've been advocating and and bringing I've spoken to each of you individually over the last few years I'm very involved with youth sports all right we have thousands and thousands and thousands of families moving to Pasco County 5456 Corridor we are running out of athletic field space we've had the parks and W Master Study done there's discussion about the mstu we did put the referendum to $20 million just to get our current facilities District parks and libraries up to where they need to be just maintenance that pass for over 70% I just want to throw this out there that we have to stay ahead of District sports facilities if you go I was at col your Parkway last night not a parking spot in there between baseball football soccer we have lacrosse teams fighting with soccer teams over field use we need more District Parks as a county we're allowing all this development but we don't want to get too far behind on the district Parks I love the idea of the sports Coast when I first met with Adam I travel all over the state with soccer tournaments I see the economic impact that just soccer tournaments alone have but the soccer club that I'm affiliated with currently has over 2,000 players and more and more players moving here lacrosse is getting big there's a huge demand for district parks and when I look at other counties such as Fish Hawk Ranch that to me is similar to Trinity in the 5456 Corridor when they had all that development at fish Haw Ranch they built a huge District park that is more than enough space for all the development and development to come over the next 10 years it's a beautiful facility you guys are doing a great job at appreciate all of you meeting with us today but it's something we really need to come up with a plan with in my opinion as a county to try to stay ahead of the game with all the families moving are you talking about expanding some parks that we already have some Parks Building new parks whatever it takes because we have and you may not know this in the Villages of Pasadena Hills on the east side we have a super Park coming there it's uh 300 200 300 acres it's going to be a super Park is that the indoor sports facility no that's no that's separate than that that's on the E right that's awesome for East Pasco yes and it's east of well West chap in the budget this year actually to add some the last part of the the diamonds and it U rectangles at starky District park that's this year multi-use Fields hopefully as well not far Ro I think I think it finishes it yeah it finishes it out I can't remember what the mix between rectangles and diamonds and then um Wire Grass will include some field

out there around the sports complex as well some of those will be ours to use so I mean there there are some things going on going on different Parks The conon District park at some point will get something people need to know too um I heard someone mention it earlier today that um something about free libraries and and um the free recreation park and all but we going tell you we all as Citizens pay for those we have the referendums to bringing MGR at one time when I first got elected the park system itself was uh deferred maintenance to like 24 million dollar so that money that's coming in off those referendums is to bring them up to where they're supposed to be right and that's why when I mentioned earlier it's very encouraging that that vote passed with over 70% in favor because that shows that the residents of Pasco understand importance right see a lot of people think the citizens get meeting rooms in the libraries other things and libraries for free we all pay that in our ad taxes so that's not free we're payable I I do want to add that our Parks Keith Wy is not here to say it in I don't know is it your is it Kathy is it you I don't know if you want to speak to what he's working on He he'll be bringing it to all the Commissioners I believe but we he he we are deficient in Parks especially um out in the Westy Chapel area where there's a lot of growth that West chap Park and that the the other fields aren't going to cover it and um there there are an Atlanta Lakes so we've got that big Angel angelene Angeline one Angeline so there are some more parks in that development but we don't have the money to build them and operate them but I do believe we will be seeing in the next year a um a uh proposal by the parks department that's well needed Mr chairman vote on it I I made the I made the free remark but it was really trying to just we're all paying for well well you all aren't paying for the parks in the city and that's my point is that we are spending our money and opening our doors up to the County residents not that uh not to make that a bad thing but you know the the residents of the County pay into the county park system as we do but the residents of the county don't pay into the city library system which we open up and make free to everybody so I'm just you know you all are the Bigg I just want to make sure you know we're trying to paddle as fast as we can to try to fulfill our role but as to planning while the planners here and the comprehensive plan was brought up uh on October the 15th and 16th the uh Florida Redevelopment Association has their conference in Tampa and they are going to have auditor uh training and legal training related to CRA I would encourage someone from Port Richie to maybe try to attend those as well which will be briefing everyone on the legalities of it but there's also a program on resiliency and with all of the County employees that are here today I I want to share the U uh I I think the thankfulness of the Tampa Bay Regional planning Council for the involvement of

the county staff in this resiliency uh discussion uh the parall of flood statutes require CRA to incorporate resiliency or or the Peril of flood the comment that we're lower and we have drainage issues um are also planning issues for us in the future how are the people that live on the coastal area going to live in the future if in fact the title comes up for feet or as predicted in 50 years which is a whole another debate but um to that point the Trouble Creek area the the areas that commissioner starky was talking about with the bike Trails um those are areas that don't have any sewer they're on SE and they're in our City's service area and if the city can do the right thing environmentally to try to put those uh properties that are at risk of uh environmental damage onto sanitary sewer which we could do uh we would certainly look to the county to allow us to do that I know the stat the state statutes require some somebody to hook up if we put a line in I've had this conversation before it would be nice for us as we're sitting here together to say we certainly need the support of the County uh when it comes to us trying to put that infrastructure in our service area which is outside the city limits particularly Trouble Creek and that whole area is in the maum chambers service area so it's part of our utility um service area so um our city is looking at that as we do new development to make sure that it will last for the next 100 Years cuz we're almost 100 years old we um we just got a grant I think that's a grant from somewhere 500,000 D $500,000 to look at two areas um uh and deal with the septic um I think it's elfers elfers and seines and C pin so we're starting and I know that the governor this is a big issue for the governor um and I and I I haven't lived in Gulf Harbors I think I've lived there what six years now um um but I I've heard that the water quality was much better years ago I don't know if you fished in that area and I have no doubt it has to do with poor sewer systems and septic issues so um I think we need to look at all that thank you just one more thing I know this morning we you know we're talking about a rental registry ordinance I know the sheriff was there Sheriff couldn't be there this afternoon but I know one of the questions from commissioner Moore was the sheriff do you anything you'd like to bring forward and ask the city and I I didn't write it down I think I think the actuality is is the radio systems for the sheriff's department he wants to connect to the cities uh D city is already connected and I think operating what are you was talking about was 911 and dispatch yeah 911 dispatch if y'all haven't been a part of that and reach out to the Sheriff's office and get them to come talk to you exactly about that if you join up with that that helps us all because we don't know what's going to happen in the future anytime bad weather storms and emergencies come about we like to all be

talking together and the past 911 when that happened even in New York City the the fire and the police and all did not talk to each other they people lost their lives because they could not talk to each other so that was a process that happened back then that brought that forward to we all want to be able to talk to each other especially our uh emergency teams and and police we want and firefighters so yes Mr chair very important we've been working very closely with the sheriff's department we're moving forward in that same direction and that okay that's good that's what he asked for since everybody you can tell we're breaking up because women are putting their purses on I have to go to St Pete yeah I really thought this was a lot more productive than I expected to be and I wouldn't mind meeting again in another six or eight months instead of once a year this only took a couple hours and we got a lot a lot of I knew it was going to be productive you were gonna thought I just want to say um thank you to the uh to the county for really focusing on the us9 corridor to clean that up I mean that just benefits everybody especially talking about the sports Coast um you know you see that great video things look amazing um then somebody comes in from town going on 19 and they look around and like that doesn't look anything like the video you know so thank you for that we really need that and like I said help help everybody I I should add that um our economic development office um Troy specifically who works in there has gone um at least in my district I I don't know if he's gone North yet to every business on 19 letting them know that we have incentives to fix up your business for landscaping um to invest in your business we did the first one in Jack's um um District we helped a uh Distillery expand so um we are letting them know that the county is really interested in helping them um improve their business on the 19th qu excellent okay with that thank youall for all coming today means of J [Music]