12.04.18 BOCC Special

[Music] [Applause] [Music] good morning I'd like to take this time to open the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners meeting for December 4 2018 at 10:07 a.m. a new port richey would you please stand for the invocation and Pledge of Allegiance your hand is open wide to satisfy the needs of every living creature make us thankful for your loving Providence and grant that we remembering the account that we must one day give be faithful stewards of your good gifts amen would you read the roll call Commissioner Moore here sorry district to district 3 Commissioner Starkey here district 4 commissioner wells your district 5 Commissioner Mariano here district 1 chairman oakley here at this time we will move into the public hearing and the first item is P 1 mr. chairman as you may recall this this item was continued you had concluded public hearing at the first hearing it was at roughly in the procedural process it was at applicant rebuttal however you have also you also sent this out to a neighborhood meeting and my understanding is staff has at least one additional condition for this project so you may wish to reopen public comment for this hearing if you do wish to reopen public comment I would suggest that that occur before applicant rebuttal otherwise you're going to be doing applicant rebuttal twice and you can either open it fully up or limit it to the to the conditions that are being proposed by staff that is up to the board's discretion I think I would start with a small staff presentation on where what they what they have done between the time that that you've continued this matter and today but that but it's this is this comes to you in sort of a different procedural process than normal for the applicant 25:23 permit place new property Florida three four six five five as a result of the two neighborhood meetings that were well attended I have a PowerPoint presentation that I think would be helpful to run through before you if you decide to open it back up for public comment so I offer that it's uploaded in the system it's got aerials and it's got some pictures and some facts and things that you have condensed version on your diets there so I offer that I think it would be helpful if you'd like me to run through that so you may wish then to - basically we hold the hearing that you you held in September if that's if that's the board's desire what's pleasure of the board I think it's a great idea right down to evidence so we'll start we'll reopen it for the hearing and staff give us a brief presentation and then mr. Wilhite can come and give her a presentation and then we'll take public comment good afternoon commissioner and good morning commissioners Cairo at Planning development I'm here to talk today about PDD 19 cu0 5a conditionally used for ARV assisted living Inc the conditional use is for our multifamily dwellings and a

c2 general commercial district approximately 144 units for a multi-family apartment complex the parlor feature land use is designated as an RoR which is retail office and testing one two okay it sounds like she's back good yep let's reset then so this is a conditional use for a ARV assisted living Inc its conditional uses for a multi-family dwelling unit in a c2 general commercial district approximately 144 units and a multi-family apartment complex the parcel for the future land use is an RoR which is a retail office and residential the subject within the subject site is in the West Market area in the urban service area and it's approximately twelve point two meters as you can see here's the location is in the western market area the site access has actually been updated with a conditional use the site access now B State Road 52 and la Madera wrote and not nature trail the surrounding zone is a c2 mf1 and PUD the future land use is an RoR of res six and a res nine this is the site plan as of right now and we're recommending approval for the conditional use for Cu 1905 thank you okay we have proof notice was published in the Tampa Bay Times on September 28th 2018 okay thank you as well mr. chair before you start I think there's some ex parte forums that I'd like the board to receive and follow because I think there was some ex parte meetings that occurred on this matter do we have those now does the board Records have those we have three of them my understanding is that the ones from Eastside have not arrived but my understanding is that all five commissioners have had ex parte communications with the applicant right so for the record from the east side it was sent by courier and I don't know I didn't show up so they're resetting it okay well we've now verbally disclosed them so that's efficient thank you yes yes and as well as weeding with the applicant and I also attended both the public meetings that were held at ember oaks in Bear Creek all right barber will hide again for the applicant since our last meeting we did has I mentioned briefly we did hold to neighborhood meetings one with timber Oaks and one with Bear Creek so the application just to kind of bring this into focus the application is to add multifamily mf2 as an additional permitted use for the property which is about 12 point 14 acre 12.1 four acres mf2 maximum height is 45 feet mf2 allows a maximum of 18 dwelling units per acre which is 218 so a lot of numbers are got thrown out you have 144 which was what's the concept plan is but I want to be clear that the way the conditions are written it's a conditional use for EM F 2 and as written they would allow for 218 units maximum 144 is the concept plan of what the conceit the potential project would be and that number is even in flux for the for the potential project but this is about use and not a user so I've tried to be clear about you know what we are have before us while also making

available my client who has a certain type of project if he moves forward with the property of what his project is proposed to be but this is what actually the application and if you approve staffs recommendation and Planning Commission's recommendation this is what you'd be approving 45 feet maximum height MF to 218 units that's point four nine trips per dwelling unit the average cost of the opposed units are about 175,000 each and the project pays a hundred percent of real property taxes no homestead exemptions this is the subject property does it have a pointer on it well I'm not very good at this stuff so in any event we have the circle there and that is the subject property on the left hand side is la Madeira on the right hand side is Nature Trail la Madeira leads to timber Oaks nature trail leaves leads to Bear Creek and State Road 52 is the road you're seeing on the north there sub your prettiest staff has mentioned is retail office residential so that's your future land use what you see for this area and this property 0.6 0fa are pretty intense F they are 24 units dwelling 24 dwelling units per acre again pretty dense is c2 is the zoning right now the property has approval for the full range of commercial uses under the C to zoning convenience store with gas pumps fast-food drive-through restaurants shopping center office and so we're not changing the c2 zoning so those uses are still will be permitted on the property the application would allow multifamily development on the property in addition so if it could be the commercially developed or it could be developed as multi-family multifamily excuse me the condition the c2 Zoning today has a maximum height of 60 feet a $250,000 250 square foot footprint at 50% lot coverage is allowed about 1,250 parking spaces for that 250,000 square foot footprint it's about four point six times more parking than multifamily and three point eight trips per thousand square feet for commercial use it's approximately eight times the trips per thousand square feet than a multifamily use their surrounding multifamily apartment projects which I thought might be interesting to run through so you can kind of an idea of the area Greencastle abandoned point is immediately to the south he's a jacent to both timber Oaks and Bear Creek directly adjacent this property only abut single-family residential one unit in Bear Creek affordable senior apartments it was built in 1994 it's four stories its 4.51 acres 80 units 18 units per acre which is that MF to cap that I've just told you about 1850 18 years per acre it's our our land use MF 2 zoning so it's consistent with the zoning that's being requested here this is the green castle project it's it's immediately south as you can see it's directly adjacent to Bear Creek residents as well as across the street from timber oak residents this is a picture an image of green castle I think it's painted a different color right now but you can

see it's a four story project directly adjacent to single-family residential Arbor villas is 380 feet south it's a again adjacent to timber Oaks it's the next one down so when you have this subject property then you have green castle and then you have Arbor villas our villas adjacent to both those timber Oaks and Bear Creek it's an affordable multifamily apartment project although you wouldn't know that it's built in 2003 it's two stories it's 4.49 acres approximately 80 units 18 units per acre our land juice MF to zoning consistent with what we're requesting this is Arbor villas as I described our subject property then you have green Castle then you have Arbor villas and you can see it's it's again directly adjacent and with kind of surrounded by the single-family projects of timber Oaks and Bear Creek this is the image that I took off the internet hudson ridge is 600 feet from the timber oaks entrance going to the west it's on State Road 52 it's 1260 feet from the Bear Creek entrance it's adjacent to timber Oaks directly adjacent to one of their portions of their project it's affordable multifamily built in 2009 three stories 15 units per acre RoR land you see to zoning conditional use for multifamily exactly what we're applying for here two bedrooms are renting going for seven seventy three bedrooms 894 for state records they're at ninety seven point two percent occupancy this is Hunter's Ridge you'll see the subject property in red and this is the hunters Ridge project and this is what Hunter's Ridge looks like built in 2009 Hunter's Ridge were Hudson Hudson thank you there's the other one too you know it being here forever I've said Hunter's Ridge so much in 22 years thank you Hudson Ridge this is what Hudson Ridge looks like after being built in 2009 this is about use not user this project the applications for multifamily is not for a full fordable multifamily it is for multifamily that being said my client if he moves forward he would move forward with an affordable project we tried to be very transparent I hope we can be civil pledges ability here and not accuse myself or my client of lying or misrepresenting or not being transparent because I heard a lot of that actually hurts me to hear that so although this is about use and not about user I want to be transparent that my client if he moves forward will have an affordable project like Hudson Ridge would be the example of of the quality of it of what you see the Hudson Ridge what it shows is a market rate product MANET eyes you can see the amenities there but with an affordable rent so folks that live there get to have market rate apartments beautiful amenitized apartments with an affordable rent still is not the lowest rent you know those are pretty high rents up at $900 mark per month affordable apartments as I said this may or may not not be an affordable apartment we're just going for use here but apartments all apartments including affordable part apartments do background in criminal

checks credit checks employment income verifications so these folks are employed for affordable projects there's actually yearly and state site visits and auditing to make sure that the quality of the project is there to make sure that they are income verifying that they are charging the rents maximum rents that they're no more than the maximum rents they're allowed what is a low-income housing tax credit program project this is from your Community Development Department they are here they are the experts I've tried to summarize what I understand they're certainly here to add or or correct anything I might say so the tax incentive to developers of affordable housing the majority of them must be rent limited and provided to those earning 60% of the am the rental properties usually very high quality and are often mistaken for luxury apartment communities since its creation in the 1980s lih the program has created millions of affordable braun units Pasco County currently has 25 multi-unit developments that were created through this program and I would challenge any of you to try to figure out which 25 of those are because two-bedroom affordable project about 850 a month that equates to a mortgage payment of like 158 home value of 197 so when I mentioned these rents are affordable they're still high relative to you know a payment you have to make every month I go back to my the the presentation that was given about Alice there's 80 thousand households there an Alice situation in Pasco County those are asset limited income constraint employed residents are in our community based on an average of 2.5 4 persons per household and the five hundred twenty-five thousand and change population that's about 38 percent of our population finds themselves where they're working every day as hard as they can for their families but need a nice place and a good place to live medium income I understand the sub market is approximately 37 the income for the for the affordable apartment tenants in the sub sub markets about thirty one thousand I did a quick review again your staff are the experts on this your library technicians starting pay is ten seventy one thirty one thousand year incomes about fifteen thousand an hour certified nursing assistant is nine dollars to sixteen the sheriff's office CPI case assignment clerk is thirteen dollars and 97 cents your school crossing guard is $10.00 your grocery store non-management associates making about twenty seven thousand a year and your assistant manager is at a variety of your food restaurants McDonald's for example here is making fourteen so there's a lot of people at that income level and they're there just like the rest of us that work hard I would just add that staff had mentioned regarding site access you're gonna hear traffic and let me just preview that issue we are okay there was a concern by the Bear Creek residents about any trips on nature trail it's not a signalized intersection the signalized

intersections at la madeira so we have said we are ok with emergency access on nature trail I say that was hesitation only because there's no access management analysis that's been done and I always worry about unintended consequences that we don't get it right and I think Commissioner Stark you mentioned limiting that now whether that's a good idea or not a good idea but ultimately it's the county that's going to decide the appropriate access for this project we have frontage on State Road 50 to la madeira signalized intersection and on nature trail so we're okay with emergency access only from a project perspective to nature trail and that's what staff is is is saying that there's a condition that can be put on that says that we've also heard concern regarding traffic in timber Oaks people people going through their community from 52 to little or little 252 and so one of our thoughts was we could potentially restrict the left movements out so if I'm leaving my apartment and I'm going out I have to go right on la madeira 252 I can't go left into timber Oaks so those are things that we've thought of again this is really an access management your technical staff we are not at that level of review where we have a site plan or an access management analysis that actually counts the number of trips actually sets forth the distribution comes up with the background traffic so I want to preview that where we are willing to condition to the extent staff supports something to deal with transportation we're willing to because we heard about the traffic issues from both communities that's probably the main thing that we heard other than concern about what type of project this could be so with that I will let you hear public comment if you have any questions for myself or or my clients we are available alright this time we'll take public comment and our clerk will read the first names to come speak mr. chairman this is quasi judicial hearing and so the clerk would need to put folks who want to speak under oath okay so for those of you who want to speak on this topic please stand and raise your right hand okay does that look about 14 because there's 14 signed up all right do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God okay okay okay I will call out the first few names if you could line up in order that would be wonderful the first name I have is sandy Mullin sandy Mullins following Elizabeth grant following Dale Thompson I'm sorry well that's not in the order yes it's not I'm sorry if you want to if you want sorry Edward they're on the same line they're on the same line okay sorry that's fine it confused me so sandy Mullins bud don't know your last name I can't read it means okay Elizabeth grant and then Dale Thompson if you could line up and then as you we get to the end I'll call up some additional you have three minutes to speak as come and speak with you today Stan at our last meeting hold

on a the same procedure that we went through the last name address room where whether you've been sworn I live at eight six one one Gandy Lane in Port Richey at three four six six eight and have you been sworn I guess I have thank you okay I'm going to give the report on our meeting that you all asked us to have with the developers and this is simply a synopsis of what we've been dealing with and and and we're we're we gonna proceed to from today their Creek residents met with attorney Barbara Wright MC Wilhite representing the property owner ARV assisted living in Louisville and the developer Jim dial of new visions communities to learn about the proposed development at the parcel of land known as Cu one 9:05 mr. dial intends to build 90 or 120 multifamily apartments the apartments will be built in cluster of five multi-story buildings three to four storeys tall each the complex will also have a clubhouse rental office and swimming pools there would be two parking spaces for each apartment which will accommodate a 180 to 240 cars we do not have an exact number the apartments will be funded by federal government tax dollars that are administered by the state of Florida mr. dial stated that the apartments are not funded by HUD but rather by the Internal Revenue sir even though he cited 200 excuse me had changes implemented by President Reagan in 1980s as a source of funding in reality funding comes from HUD and the IRS provides the tax credits when asked about section 8 housing mr. dial at first said they the developer would only have to accept runners who walked into the rental office with a voucher in hand and and then went on to say that there we should not worry about this because there's not any section 8 money available and we happen to know that that also is not true in reality there are section 8 money that is available and under government law if an apartment is available it must be given to a section 8 renter is that my time okay thank you in addition mr. Dyle stated that even though he was getting federal tax dollars he would have nothing to do with HUD in the operation of the apartment in reality federal law requires 24 some of the apartments to be designated to those earning 50 percent below the average medium gross income and another 40 percent be dessert designated to those who are earning 60 percent below 60 percent in addition any unoccupied apartment must be given to a section 8 a percipient upon request mr. Dyle previously stated in October in a conversation with myself that he had a commitment of eight million dollars in government funding and planned on selling this tax credits he would receive to a banker insurance company and only have to be personally responsible for a smaller part of the total development budget at the meeting on Saturday mr. Dyle declined to comment forgetting the funding okay all right Thank You mr. maim state your that your name address and web that you've been sworn for the

with a 1:1 635 nature trail in the Bear Creek on complex I have them sworn in okay some of my concerns on this are the attorney had mentioned that the there's an affordable housing that was built in 2003 that you would look at he might even know its affordable housing that abuts the back of my property trust me you know that it's affordable housing there was a constant stream of people cutting between my house and my neighbor's house through the back of that complex to the point where I had to go and complain to the property management multiple times they built a wooden fence there which is now pretty much ripped down from people climbing over it since then the crime rate in the Bear Creek neighborhood has skyrocketed bicycle theft automobile break-ins just multiple things being stolen from people's porch I can't believe for a second that that's simply coincidental it began when the affordable housing apartments were built in 2003 and it is as just skyrocketed since then I don't see putting more affordable housing in the area being any type of remedy to that it's simply going to exacerbate an already bad situation we've heard today that they're looking for approval for 218 units we've been told 144 at the meeting on Saturday plus units so I'm not sure what that number is but my heart tells me if they're looking for approval on 218 it's gonna be a lot closer to that number than to the 90 the traffic impact on the roads in the Bear Creek neighborhood will be considerable you're gonna have many people pulling out onto 52 and immediately taking that right the the nature trail through to Schrader cut through is already very popular with everybody looking to avoid that light at 52 and little and as a result those roads are trashed I would hope that if indeed this project is approved that there would be some allowance made by the Builder to repave those roads to accommodate the additional traffic that the the project is going to create there the roads are in terrible shape you've had hearings on on getting the repaved here in front of this commission in the past and as yet that has not been done so the increase in traffic on those is just it's going to just annihilate those roads let's make no mistake this is going to be affordable housing is gonna be low income people with that be is going to come and increase drug use increase crime you can look historically at affordable housing and the two go hand-in-hand I'm not saying that these are bad people that move in but there tend to be bad people that move in in addition to hard-working families working at the various places highlighted in the presentation and look at that two seconds to spare all right thank you thank you Elizabeth grant that's me okay state your name address and that you've been sworn I mean cost arena drive and timber Oaks and have you been sworn I'm sorry have you been sworn yeah over there yes

you have to stated for the record if it gets read back yes yes thought you forgot sorry I don't forget but the record won't remember later I'll be ready living in Florida fo forty five years I had watched it grow Pasco County was made up of orange grows and lots of Marshall landfill water drainage our elected officials allowed builders to purchase property and no thought was given to water drainage just look at the subdivisions that flow even the newer ones in Trinity again no thought was given by the county of needing future roads for population growth unless you use little road and us nine to travel south you must drive through two-lane subdivisions these subdivisions have stop signs lights and some speed bumps it is my understanding that our elected officials are now planning on lying the same thing as past residential builders come and build as much units as they can and give a thought to roads or traffic no planning on an entrance exit into this development Lara Madeira which is also the entrance to timber Oaks plus other smaller communities and a few businesses the Builder plans on bringing the entrant exit onto la Madeira as there is a light at the corner of la Madeira and SR 52 Laura la Madeira again also leads the entrance of senior community timber Oaks which will give cars another way to get to different local roads of pesco just think of the traffic congestion that timber oak senior community will experience residents living in this community pay their monthly dues to take care of the common areas the said road is Ponderosa Drive which has lots occurs plus homes backyards face Ponderosa Drive cars speeding on Ponderosa Drive will crash into trees and homes again which line the street little old ladies or men walk the dogs bikers will be run over by the speeding cars my advice to elected officials start thinking and an entrance exit to this new development we move the light on SR 52 and Madeira and position it in the entrance exit to the new development also at a foot fence around the entire pro's proposed development afterthought subdivision Jasmine Lakes look at the speeding cars and accidents on this road the cars crashing into timber Oaks fences and homes which backup to German Drive so you're all doing what you did before you better think twice is all I have to say I'm sending this to the newspapers hopefully they will look into what's all going on disgusted with all of you they're here thank you ma'am are you Kathy sweet I'm Dale Thompson okay am i a dwarf no you're not thank you three people wrote their names on one line so I just submitted that I miss Kathy sweet you can go ahead miss Thompson and then we will get to Kathy sweet afterwards okay Dale Thompson had cheetah Drive timber timber Oaks subdivision and yes I was sworn in I'd like to take my first minute to thank Mike and Jack because the last meeting that we were at here it was very obvious that they weren't even sure what was going on just like us

people and they did put a stop to the meeting and have this one today and do some homework in between thank you both for that Jack I also want to apologize to you for the horrible way you were treated at our meeting when you came that was terrible and we are going to try to do something about that now I don't want to repeat what everybody else has said everybody else's concerns are also a concern of mine I want to add when I moved into timber Oaks the Golf Course situation had not been settled yet it's now settled I'm already worried about the druggies that are going to be hanging out there since it's not going to be fenced in and it's not really going to be a park but it's going to be a park-like setting now I'm worried that if you bring in more lowing come housing people of any kind I could live there myself I'm not against them but I know what's happened in the past in others if you were putting in a nursing home a senior citizen complex anything like that where Pasco didn't have to worry about more crime especially in my backyard my home is not worth a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars but you're building a hundred and seventy five thousand dollar apartments that is gonna be government funded or something there's not enough well paying jobs in Pasco County you all know that Jack I'm glad you live in Pasco County that's one of the reasons why I appreciate you and I believe you do want to make it a better place you don't want where you live where you live is right across the street so I know there's a lot you probably can't say or it won't say but I don't think that this is gonna help Pasco at all I think if anything the areas of beacon woods and Bear Creek and timber Oaks are really gonna go downhill and is that me okay my home right now went from when I bought it believe it or not when everything went down I paid $34,000 right now it's about 130 and the houses are selling within a week in there if this goes up I'm afraid I'll be sitting on my house when I'm ready to move thank you thank you good morning my name is Kathy sweet I live on honeybee Lane please don't let the name fool you like I told you before I've lived on honeybee Lane since 1981 that was my uncle's home and I have taken over since he passed away seven years ago yes I have been sworn in thank you very much Jack again I apologize for what happened but thank you for showing up and coming mr. Moore I want to thank you as well as Jack for making this meeting possible again on a different day at 10 o'clock in the morning I'm only going to do some bullet points because my feelings kind of read you know resonate with everyone else's my bullet points are we would like if it if and when this happens if it is built we would really like an 8 foot wall a concrete wall we would like maintain the lawn outside of the premises because it is not maintained now Bear Creek the people sandy and them pay for this maintenance outside that residence right now if we didn't the grass would be sky-high

some of the neighbors cut the trees down themselves we don't ask anyone else the Builder though not the Builder but the person that owns the property so we maintain it ourselves the other thing is we need some more lights put in at the entrance if you're going to make this a residential area we would like more lights when you enter to the Bear Creek area we also want the paving of nature's trail and Schrader Road paid by you people because it's like it is going to be used it's literally going to be either they're going to go through nature's trail I mean they're going to go through our residents to get to the school to little road or they're going to turn around and go over to timber Oaks it's a it's a given it's a given we don't have that luxury so we do need our roads paved especially nature's trail and Schrader Road which are really bad but so is Bear Creek and we would really appreciate to have all of the roads of Bear Creek rain the other thing is you know that the the buyer and the seller please help pay if you possibly could for maybe some security lights on the Bear Creek entrance I don't know if that's a possibility we've talked about it we've talked about us residents you know getting together and paying for it ourselves but if they could help us with something like that and put up some security lights at that entrance it would be wonderful thank you for your time thank you for what you've done and again I apologize for what happened to you the other night thank you and thank you very comments all right because the following people line up Pat Mora okay I don't know if I'm gonna if I'm gonna pronounce this correctly it's hard to read is it Chris Dabrowski yes okay please step up next Paul Stearns and then I have a question Suzanne Greene put Galen Wilson project is that are used to here to speak to that item this item or is it a different weight you're can't you you have to hear from the mic are you here are you here to talk about this topic we can't there's no public comment no comment today on any other on a special meeting that's just on this project well it's not I'm sorry my name is Patricia Morrow I've been sworn in I'm at 32:15 sinfully be coy timber Oaks the problem we're having in timber of us would be the traffic coming through we can't accommodate any more traffic with school buses tractor trailers and everything else that this housing project is going to bring to our community we're retired people we don't need this in our community we pay our taxes there's what we went to one of the meanings and we suggested that they put a retired village 55 and over like we had before over there before it was taken down they said they weren't allowed to do that because the owner of the property will not allow it I don't understand that and I would like them to come and done that to you guys also because I never heard of such a thing in my life that if you could sell a piece of property and tell somebody what they could put on it if you sell the piece of property you sell it

end of story I don't see why we need another affordable housing in Pasco County I think we have enough portable housing for right now in Pasco County how much more do we have to do to take up the slack for other counties around us how many more people do we have to bring to Pasco County for affordable housing we need jobs in Pasco not affordable housing get them jobs first before you worry about their housing and we have to do something about the traffic if they move that if they come into La Mirada where is the traffic going to go when they come out of there and they make a left-hand turn they'll be going damn Ponte Rosa Boulevard how are they going to go damn Ponderosa below it how could you stop them from going down Ponderosa that's what I want to know and how many units are going to be there it's going to be two hundred and something a hundred and forty ninety every time we have a meeting with them it's a different number of apartments that's going to be put up there so as of today we still don't know and we still don't know why you can't put senior citizens there instead of affordable housing for people the half of them are on welfare half of them are on Social Security because they don't work because this sick they have a backache or whatever that's what we have in this county everybody knows it but I'd like some of those questions answered where's the traffic gonna go and why can't we have senior housing there instead of affordable housing for both families and more schools impact on our schools and our roads school buses and everything we can't even get school bus drivers that's all they see they're forever hiring because they can't get anybody to drive to school bus never gonna put more kids in there when is it stop when do we say we have enough we don't need anymore it's anybody gonna do anything about it we'd like to know today thank you for your time thank you yes ma'am for the record I want to just state I believe that was Pat Mora that just spoke I didn't hear the name on the record is that your name Chris Dobrowski eight one one four Pasadena Drive port richey in timber Oaks first have you been sworn yes I've been sworn first I don't know who put it in the Suncoast time you advertised our stormwater project as a park and this project is not a park or going to be a park it's a stormwater project because of this if you put family units in this area proposed kids are going to be bringing their BMX bikes and motorcycles and everything else and be running through timber Oaks stormwater project with these items let alone the crime and everything else yes I am for a wall eight-foot around this development you haven't proposed traffic pattern and now it looks like Bear Creek gets out of it and we get stuck with it we don't need any more traffic on our roads a little point hudson ridge does not exit into timber Oaks it exits out on 52 thank you very much thank you Paul Stearns 81 41 Braddock Circle Port

Richey I have been sworn in thank you and I didn't have a prepared statement like the others do so being an old man I might get a little bit that confused but mr. Mariano I want to thank you for coming to our meeting the other day it's the first time I had I don't usually attend the meetings but I did because of this particular project I moved to Florida timber Oaks is deed restricted 55 and older community and basically it's my hope and I think there's a lot of other residents the same way we want to live there in peace and quiet because we're waiting to go into a nursing home and you know it's it's one one step that I I just I really love it down where I'm living I'm but my back part of my condo face is Ponderosa and being a retired cop out of New York I would like to put the uniform back on and throw some spikes out on the road because the traffic isn't getting horrendous I've been run off the road I have my grandkids coming to visit when they play out in the yard we had to you know protect him like we would a dog they would get loose because a two-year-old just kind of just goes wherever he wants to more units up there is going to create and it's been said many times before it's going to be a thoroughfare from 52 to little or vice versa and like I said I've been running off the road I see the speeders if we can get this project to strictly go out into 52 and not come down la Madeira to a Ponderosa would be a big help effect kind of a restriction could be put on there the other thing is it be nice to see senior housing in there there's a lot more people from the north maybe you don't want us Yankees I don't know I love it down here and I have my friends want to come and if you could put in more senior housing they'd sell very fast or be rent well not rent it out but self as condo and I just want to be surrounded by other people who are in the same position as me we want just a little quiet life we don't want the things and like I said I'm a former cop I know what a lot of these stuff brings and some of it may be exaggerated but on the other hand there's going to be a lot of a lot of problems associated with low-income housing and I just I hope the board can take that into consideration and if it does happen put it out on 250 - so that it doesn't come by my property that's all right al OTT of others I'm not the only one that backs up to 52 so that's all I got to say and if I repeat it myself I'm sorry anyway thank you for making very much board yes sir how are you the following people could line up a Suzanne tousle or tell soul did I say that wrong okay Jeanette Schmidt Nanette Hale Rick AG ler Miss tousle Europe I hope I got that correct my name is Susan - so I live on Zane Lane and Bear Creek and I have been sworn in the things that I want to say are there are could you bend your microphone down so we can pick you up there you go thank you yep there are many subsidized apartments in

the area the people that you stoled across the street for me in San Tong same Lane went through some hardships and they moved into the hudson ridge and hudson ridge started out a beautiful community they all do and they ended up having to bide their time because they wanted to get out there was so much crime there was a lot of gangs they'd hang out in their stairwells there was drugs and they were concerned about their daughter my daughter was living in Weston Oaks which is in the southern in and that started out beautiful she moved in when it first got built and she got pregnant and she couldn't wait to get out because the crime level started going up and she moved into an appearance and Ridge Road there are two apartment complexes there and I'm don't know the name of the one but it is government subsidized the crime rate is huge it has blossomed out into the development around embassy the whole community in that area has started going down she lives not too far from the complex but it's just spreads and it's not that I would not want these people to have a place to live or something like that because I was a single mom and raised my kids to by myself but by the same token there are people that move in the community where we lived my dad lives in timber Oaks I live in Bear Creek we can't handle any more traffic there's been accidents repeatedly at that intersection at La Madera and 52 there is no way that you could possibly divert that traffic they moved the bus stop so that it sits in between la Madera and nature trail now so you'd have to that again not that that would be severely big deal but by the same token you just got all these people that just travel through all these communities and my father lives in there it's a peaceful quiet community and timber Oaks and I understand what they're saying because it won't be that way anymore and the retired people worked hard to get that so and we work hard for ours as well there's people that come in and do trick-or-treating on Halloween and they come to our neighborhood because they know it's safe we'll stay that way so I just like for this to all be considered it could be a business it could be a really nice business right there on the corner be cool if somebody could put their name on a park there but anyway thank you I have been sworn in my name is Jeannette Schmidt I live at 85/15 honeybee Lane in Bear Creek port richey I have many concerns first of all no matter how you route the traffic it's coming through Bear Creek you could put an opening on 52 they're going through Bear Creek they already go through Bear Creek there's no stop to it now you're gonna make it right turn only off of La Madera straight to Bear Creek the crime in Bear Creek is outrageous there's not a police there's not enough policemen in this county to stop what is going on the drugs the theft the homelessness there's no end to it you call a sheriff or anything it'll take

them an hour to get there I have called I watched my house up the street get broken into they sent them to Wesley Chapel nobody from the Sheriff's Department ever showed up to that subdivision or they came to me they called me on the phone and asked me who did it do you think I'm gonna go run around chasing crime criminals it's not gonna happen not gonna happen the the schools there's an impact on the schools no matter how you look at it I worked for the nine and I remember when Hudson Ridge went up or whatever it's called next to winn-dixie there was nothing but crime nothing but crime gangs they're in there all night long in winn-dixie parking lot I know if one occasion when the sheriff showed up there was thousands of bullets on the ground and the smoke was still going not a person in sight nobody has ever been held accountable for it we have crime we have a meth house that was in our neighborhood we've had traffic accidents they tear through our neighborhood they knocked down our mailboxes they crash into our cars three cars four mailboxes weren't incident they left the scene four hours later somebody showed up nothing was done except for by us as far as the front of the entrance of Bear Creek there that's County land we already had a meeting with you people and code enforcement said that's County land you don't take care of it the gutters are filled with sand the grass is high and unless we pay do it ourselves nothing gets done I have called repeatedly to code enforcement I have called the county nothing gets done and all you do is come through our streets and repave throw a little dirt here a little tar here nothing gets done our roads are a mess State Road 50 - the traffic the traffic the speeding people on that road - in 70 80 miles an hour and is not a cop don't call the cops like they say report a crime because they're not coming and don't call because you're behind somebody that's doing speeding because they're not coming I went to this the other day they're not coming don't follow them if you don't follow them and get their license plate how will you ever know so I hung up and they call me back I said are you gonna do anything no and here we are are we gonna get anything done thank you hello my name is Nanette Hale I live at eleven six one for salmon Drive in Port Richey Florida three four six six eight in Bear Creek and Jack I'd like to thank you for our meeting there day and I'm also apologize mishap warranty I've been sworn all right thank you okay I want to address some standards which is traffic parking things in our neighborhood I have four young grandchildren I'm raising in the crime that comes into our neighborhood from 52 and in places we've had things stolen it's just the traffic's my main concern the skulls are another concern and there's a lot of problems with drainage in our neighborhood and our roads how will this affect us I'm not against a multi-family thing but

it if you get people things for free they don't send tend to take care of them if people have to work and earn things they're gonna take a lot better care of it and I just don't think it's gonna be a good thing most of my neighbors are seniors and I just I don't think this is a good idea at all if we could have condos senior living anything but more multifamily it's just crime its crime it's extra traffic it's just not good for our neighborhood thank you thank you for joining us good morning I'm Rick Aguilera I've been sworn 1077 footprint Lane timber Oaks Port Richey I'm been neither the vice president or president of the timber Oaks for the last four years and thank you for having our public meeting at timber Oaks I'm here both in my individual capacity and also the report on what we did what happened there as some of you personally know the with timber Oaks as most of you I think all of you know and by now or 2000 homes most of our senior citizens about 3,700 adult individuals plus some children about 300 homes or children we have found that there is absolutely no benefit to timber Oaks for this project none but there is detriments I think you know what the biggest one is by now traffic the traffic coming out on a la madeira you take I'm sure I used to I was in a tourney as most you know probably and you know if you can put 208 oh it's also landlord if you can put 218 units in a place you know you're gonna try to get up as close as you can and still reasonably do it if you say is there's 200 you know you're talking at least 250 cars there then because everybody today with this cars being so cheap and stuff and if you put that all out in la Madeira it's going to be a mess and the natural inclination is course you go right and 52 but if you're going to go south you're going to go left and come down through us that is a huge monstrous concern to us every single individual and timber Oaks there the second item has been referred to a little bit we now have a a magnet if you want to call it a natural magnet it's being developed through thank you I was chairman of that committee to the golf course project and we're getting in and you know I can't thank you enough for that project unfortunately a little bit of detriment is going to be that it's kind of a natural draw for a lot of people and the natural draw is because 78 acres of lakes and woods and cut lawn I hope and like that that's gonna so we have a large concern and you know getting back to this and I only have part of a minute left is this is a change they're asking for there are original people who did all the zoning planning and everything make a mistake I don't think so I know in a way it's not a change it's an add-on but it's still a change I don't think we need that change I think we need to stay with what we got say the course and keep it I don't want to argue low-income versus other income it's the amount and the traffic and stuff that's in there

and I just feel that that is not needed it's a big detriment to us and you know are we doing a change to accommodate an individual and individual corporation or whatever to put something in there you know what are we really accomplishing let's let's just only change if we're going to accomplish something thank you very much thank you and I have the final three individuals that signed up mark is it Rose Watson Joe Bowman and Bob you can't read the last word is it cloade glued cute nature trail okay you're the last good morning thank you all for what you do I'm sorry my name's mark Rosen Wasser I am representing the Archdiocese of st. Petersburg which includes Pasco County they are the owners and operators of our village apartments which is located adjacent to the property your address and that you've been sworn for the record 33:47 west bears avenue tampa three three six one eight I have been sworn thank you for the record I want to know that the archdiocese nor the property didn't receive a notice to the first meeting otherwise we would have been there as well wanted to at the top of miss will heights a letter she says if you were not positioned to the above stated application you will need competent substantial evidence presented at the hearing one of the things she did not include in there is any specificity there is no specificity in this plan in fact we've heard numbers of 218 units we heard units of 114 units we heard the number of 90 units we've heard affordable we've heard non affordable there is no specific site plan which is absolutely customary to come when it comes to changing of zoning the developer is clearly looking for you to permit this change which would allow them a number of options they want to keep the current zoning but they want to have the option of additional zonings it's like going into a candy store you're giving them the right to pick whatever whatever they want and all those options are leaving my residents at our villas and I would assume most of the people in this room here in in the dark we don't know what is going on that property I'm not gonna talk about a lot of the other issues because I don't particularly live in the area but I can tell you about the traffic concerns our community empties out onto la Madera which then emptied out onto State Road 50 - we have many children in our community I've been told that our community is not one of the the the drug-related and with those kind of problems we control that pretty carefully but I can tell you that there are a number of school buses that pick up our young children and the amount of traffic and people rushing to get down la Madera - State Route 52 is is such that they I have observed the literally passing buses with flashing lights and stop signs and the bars out because they need to get to work I thank you for your time excuse me what was the name of your project Arbor villas apartments 80 unit unit property right one lammeter and are you 100% occupied

no because of income restrictions we are roughly ninety four percent occupied that's pretty good shraeger boulevard and air creek horn yes yes first I'd like to say say thank you to Jack for showing up to meeting and again I apologize for coming I would like to say there is already enough affordable monkey housing in within the area additional multi-home housing is not needed there is plenty of multi-home housing within the area what we need and what you should be concentrating on is bringing business to the area so we can further develop West passcode kind of like native Lakes is at Wesley Chapel that's what you should be focused on not multi-housing that development area should stay zoned exactly the way it is no additional items are necessary again I live on Schrader the traffic is horrible people speed on that road constantly if you add another 244 which i think is what they said then that will increase the traffic not only in timber Oaks but also in Bear Creek as well thank you thank you my name is Gordon I live on nature trail and it's not much I want to say there you have to state your ad your specific agile org and nature trail oh one one six three four nature trail that what you want yes and that you've been sworn I'm not gonna start getting all kind of mail I'm will do and whether or not you've been sworn served that was the second thing the clerk asked you I didn't I think it sworn in I do swear or you talked I swear you in yes do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God so help me God okay you me my reason I like the only thing I want to say is I want to apologize I I left that meeting sad you mr. Maron I always say I was I was embarrassed to see how the people were were acting at that meeting that was I just couldn't get I could not get over it plus I was rinsing my football games but I don't know where this thing is going but I will speak and somebody mentioned a little earlier about paving Bear Creek and I can't even understand in here about a year and a half ago speaking against paving Bear Creek and all of a sudden people want Big Creek paint it's not that bad but whatever they decide to do nature trail should be repaved in schrader between the developer in the county right splitting it 50/50 because there will be more traffic and also several speed bumps other than that I got nothing else to say okay I think everybody else said it before me okay so have a good day hopefully this is all going to work out and I look at it if it's going to be for senior citizens it's called growth when I moved out here from New England in 94 little Road was one lane 52 was one lane it's called growth people gonna have a place to live seriously you know and if they go to build a nice apartment that's averages $175,000 maybe you're giving people with little income or small income or reason to say listen my life is getting better that's all thank

you thank you for your comment can't speak from the audience I'm sorry so so you need to call for if anybody has if anybody else that has not signed up and not spoken would like to speak at this time for this item please come forward and when you get here we need your name and address and if you've been sworn Frank dambha 82 11 sand flea fort I have not been sworn in I just got back from out of town okay we all know the deal right he's going in before you can testify do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God I do okay okay we all know the deal we've seen these places I moved out of Maryland because of one of these places an eight foot wall with lights is just a pallet becomes a canvas for gang gangs but spray-painting and writing it's not just the 200 cars it's the people that visit them and come and go it's the skateboards it's the bicycles it's the traffic it's all of the above it's in the trash that comes with it we all know this I feel like it should be the other way around the developers should be talking to that to you guys about why they should be putting this here not the way the other round I feel like you're not on our side you're not on the temporal side you're on the developers side that's all I got and we all vote all right thank you sir my name is kelly green and I live at 8700 M 8 Wolf Den trail and it happens wanted ok thank you um this morning I was late because I received a phone call from the I believe he was the county attorney at about 9:30 stating that we would would not be allowed to may have talked to the chief assist oh I'm sorry it was a two for one one number I don't know but he had told me that we may not be allowed to speak today zouri frantically emailed everybody like a little map of Bear Creek where fish Rita and little Road cuts to nature trail that is where our traffic flow comes from non-residents and I really feel like if this project is does happen we're going to have a lot of additional cars and there we already have a problem with people not stopping at the stop signs and whatnot I personally do not want the speed bumps our first responders have asked us not to do that at one of our neighborhood watch meetings and then with all that said I just wanted to point out a couple of things when the application was put in it's for 144 units then that changed to 120 meters and Saturday night they said it was 90 units now I'm here in today 218 units not sure how that happens but my issue with this application for conditional use is that there is no site plan so we really don't know what is going to be built there on Saturday night when we had that meeting mr. Dyle had said that he is 99% sure he will not be the buyer of the property yet he is the one given the presentation the information on what will be put there but if you're not gonna buy it how do you know what's going to be put there so if we if you approve this application anything can go there any multifamily unit

[Music] worst-case scenario a halfway house for released felons anything no their worst case scenario so with that said the required standards a lot of these required standards have not been met there is no site plan there's no traffic study so we can't really you know even discuss what the traffic flow would be like we haven't had a traffic study the sinus there's no been no talk of signage again no site plan so we don't really know what what that will be like where anything is going to be put how will it adversely affect the health and safety welfare of our surrounding communities well everybody has talked about that traffic and in our small communities we do have a lot of you know children walking playing we do have a lot of even retired people walking around playing I mean it will affect that because when you have to watch up that was me right thanks all right thank you is anyone else that haven't spoke or this time seeing no one is real light you want to come back well or you know the staff have anything before miss wood gets up to staff have anything that they wish to put on the record yes Paige Bramblett Pasco County Community Development good morning I'd like to clarify some of the comments related to the need of affordable housing there's a perception out there that obviously that the amount of affordable housing we have available in the county right now matches the need and unfortunately that is not the case and it's it's a nationwide issue but currently if you look at the criteria for for affordable housing long waits it's 30 percent of a person's income that their rent or their house payment it's 30 percent or below of what their income is and using that criteria along with income eligibility 80 percent of the Metropolitan Statistical Area area median income approximately 40 percent of Pasco counties residents would qualify for affordable housing so we do have a substantial need we are working on it but there is a need there both for for seniors same family so just want to clarify that it may ask ask a question mr. chair yes in my notes someone brought up section 8 housing can you speak to section 8 housing yeah the Housing Choice Voucher program also known as section 8 is a voucher program that allows people to rent properties and essentially the voucher offsets the difference between 30% that 30% cutoff and the cost of the unit there is a maximum allowed rent for those units and that maximum allowed rent amount as dictated by the number of bedrooms of the property itself and that's and that's dictated by the zip code which HUD determines in a report that they issue annually okay so we don't have section 8 compounds but a person can go anywhere in the county in a house housing tax credit program specifically as you heard mr. Wilhite stated and incentivizes development through a tax credit to the developer however those rents are limited by a person's income eligibility and the population that

lives in that unit they have to meet those income eligibility requirements they have to be certified and the rent is limited based on that I and I have another question but I'm not sure you're the right person to speak to it and that's on halfway houses I have a little education on halfway houses but I'm not sure if you do so halfway houses are unregulated in the state of Florida pretty much in any house in any neighborhood can be a halfway house right now with six residents or last set does anyone else know the rules on the halfway 3/4 houses yeah so what you're referring to as a group group housing situation that meets residential standards right they're called sober homes halfway houses three quarter houses but that you're preempted by the state of Florida from regulating them I just someone that brought up that this place could be a place for halfway houses and no no but that's not what they're presenting to us today well I'm just saying a halfway house could be right down the street from you it could be yeah hopefully we're gonna work on that but I think that's all my questions for Hays okay staffing have anything else Thank You mr. chairman Nick tarios PTO's with planning and development just to address some of the comments related to crime and the land use just from basic research there is no significant correlation between crime and multi-family living per the University of Michigan in general more people live in an area and so the so the expectation is that there are more police calls in that area but not all calls are tend to be crime centered according to the University of Michigan many are wellness checks and other non crime related reasons for calls well the reason why I cite the University of Michigan is because it is a nationally renowned urban planning program at the University of Michigan so generally a crime is proportional to total population and not specific to a land use or housing product single-family development can carry similar proportions and crime relative to area population indeed the drug epidemics are the examples of that they don't distinguish between land uses from a planning perspective crime rates can be influenced to some degree through site design and specifically through the integration of land uses isolating land uses can often drive crime because it is perceived as separate and unwatched so walls create spaces that are uncertain since you don't know what's on the other side of a wall so with that I just wanted to make sure that everyone's clear on how crime impacts what the crime in X could be thank you all right Thank You mr. chairman yes not to get into debate but I would dispute that and the reason I say that it's B kids and then the future you'll I will bring somebody from the sheriff's office in here and I've had discussions with a sheriff themselves and he will explain to you that crime rates in Pasco County and multi-family housing units are higher it's that's and we're talk about

Pasco so in the future I'll have them because I have some things coming up in reference to multifamily housing that we're gonna discuss 'king and I know we we talked about we're gonna discuss his abort to but he will be coming in or one of his representative come in so we can explain that more detail for this County yes I'm talking about a broad range of subjects before I ask the developer a couple of questions if I could just nur applicant hasn't had rebuttal yet a little but I'd rather you do applicant rebuttal look ahead and move into commissioners comments if that's what well yeah as well hi well height for the applicant need crime and walls have been addressed we will meet the land development code for buffers your code has already stated what the appropriate buffers are between single-family or multifamily to multifamily so we'll meet the code on that I've tried been very transparent about the how many units I got the question Saturday night and so I wanted to make sure that we were clear here that the zoning has to come proposed because it's MF to standards in our our land use would allow 18 units per acre the same as our villas and the same as Greencastle and Hudson Ridge is that 15 units per acre so all about the same density yes our application because they asked us what are you proposing said 144 mr. Dyle if he was the one who developed this property says his latest plans would be 90 so that's that's just actually how we how the unit issue stands we background check these projects they're criminal checks as the representative of our bure bill is told you they're very in control the situation's they try to control the drugs control the crime pretty carefully maintain the lawn I did appreciate when when residents actually have things that they want to you know talk about specifically maintain the lawn yes that's the benefit of valuing property and taking it from vacant property that's got a chain-link fence around it and developing it is especially in a situation with multifamily where it's managed by one company it will be uniformly maintained more street lighting that is something that is is looked at at site plan review the county has a program regarding street lighting and that's looked at its light plan review the paving of nature trail and schraeder the county addresses those types of cut through issues and who pays for what all the time cut through and collector Road or roads that act like collectors so as as and as a process for those residents to bring that process forward to the county we are adjacent to nature trail so anything that would have to be done there would be an assessment for that property if there were an assessment for paving security lights the project will have security lights traffic again the left turns out a lot I mean we thought about this a lot and I think you've had a couple speakers from turn from from timber Oaks that said we restricting the left turn movement so I can't leave my apartment and turn left into timber Oaks would be helpful and so

we are willing to put that condition on we are also willing subject to staff's approval to say emergency access only on la Madeira because it's not signalized and we also have a condition that limits construction traffic existing condition now that limits come struck in traffic to only la Madeira 252 so it construction traffic can't come or go through timber Oaks Department can you clarify it Steven you just made I think you said emergency access to la madeira did you mean to say nature trail I did okay thank you I did conditional use criteria site plan we did provide the consulate plan that's required you've heard the traffic impact of c2 versus multifamily so that's and and staff will tell you that's how they analyzed the transportation impact in the code requirement whether we had to do analysis or not too dependent on whether we were increasing our potential additional use of multifamily was increasing trips beyond what's already approved so that code has been complied with signage we meet the county's code regarding regarding signage and you've heard testimony about adverse impact you've heard the presentation by your own staff about crime and walls you've heard about need so the the other thing I get the question on is is age restricted just we are coming forward with a conditional use for multifamily just like the one you approved for Hudson Ridge in 2005 it that is what our application is for we are not seeking age restriction and to be specific about that the con the seller of the property has restricted in the contract and will be followed through with the deed restriction that it cannot be senior housing so but our regardless of all of that we are seeking approval for a multi-family use this is about use and not users actually I know actually like Commissioner Marriott to go first because he actually I think at something you want to say that off all of that's okay and I Drive ideas I have a juice I have a series of questions um barbecue come up for a minute just I want to ask yesterday we had our meeting we made a phone call to the person who is the real estate person for the developer and I asked the question would you let it go senior housing I think be much more agreeable to the people if we went that way they were going to check did you hear anything back from them I worked on that to 7:00 o'clock last night and the seller has says it's they're restricting it so it cannot be a senior housing project that's okay all right and that's pretty much I appreciate that okay now I'm gonna I'm gonna go into a few things to talk about so when we look at the development I really appreciate the board agreeing to have this special meeting the timing time was important with everything else the traffic that is in that area is strong enough now timber Oaks a few years ago when 52 was getting rebuilt a lot of traffic went through timber Oaks it's probably increasingly that we took care of that whole area in there and paid for their

roads just like we did with Lake Bernadette thought has it cut through part of the part of our network connecting to our Tilia roads I think nature trail in schraeder and I told the people after meeting I think one of the good things come out of this meeting is we try to do a paving assessment a little bit ago here and because of the higher cost it kind of got rejected by the by the residents but I think coming up to this there will be a lot of cut through traffic if this apartment complex goes in running down through nature trail just like it will through Ponderosa and timber Oaks so the traffic is definitely going to affect what goes on there people heading south they're going to go that way you can set the access however you want it would there will be definitely an impact so it'll be something we can look at I'll bring it back up to the board coming up as far as how to look at doing the paving assessment if this does go through one of the things I would look to do is I've heard the developer speak and they talked about if they were going to come in how they would be paying about a $800,000 in impact fees well coincidentally because it's a redevelopment site in the harbor's area they're not going to be paying that fee so whatever happens with this property I want to make sure we tie into if we do a paving assessment here that per-unit granted by today if it does get granted today or even for the future that they do pay in their fair share for that paving assessment to 100 percent per year you having said that I want to get too far ahead of it but when I look at the conditional use and I listen to all the comments and I was at both public hearings and just so you know as I went to the public hearings I did not go to sit to the front of the room I said I went to sit to the side or the back and people were wondering kind of why each time they came up about as far as my comments what I why I didn't make early statements on why I just kind of let the meeting go I let the people know it's not my meeting it's the developers meeting part of the condition I don't want to affect the meeting I just want to be there as more of a listening agent for my own information as I come before the board I can tell you that the the fear of the affordable housing project as proposed with the flexibility or affordable housing command does scare everybody here now when I look at the reasons that we could disagree with the Planning Commission items number two the proposed conditional use will adversely affect will contribute to the deterioration to the quality of life of all property values in the immediate neighborhood I think it's a very legitimate concern which I which I agree with I think the proposed conditional use on number four the proposed conditional use will create or especially increased traffic or parking congesting or otherwise affect Public Safety and I think number eight the proposed

conditional use will otherwise adversely affect the health safety or welfare of the surrounding community area I think we've heard a pretty good description of the units and I think of the property with what they think will happen I think it's legitimate concerns across the board I think if it done something did happen here no matter what would come if they would accept this senior being senior housing that something I could get behind but I do want to see that lighting along the property all the way into the side on both roads coming in does get improved I do want to see that we kind of look at building that whether it be a brick wall or solid well something that can't be just climbed over I've gone through and torn down which we've heard about that can happen to the other walls that eight-foot brick wall is something I think just around the property as well and you know I think when when you hear about the arch angle our bure villas it was right there's a 94% capacity 100 ridges at 97% it's not that this is a fear whether they'll fill it because obviously when people can get a break they're going to try to find a way to fill it I mean when I talked to one of the ladies at the presentation of one of the meetings talked about how she works in volunteers at Saint Michael's Church the amount of people that come from Hunters Ridge the affordable housing project they talk about is really putting a hurt on the the food that they give away and the assistance they look for I mean they look for electric bills to be paid they look for other help they can get and they have a hard time struggling just taking care of the people that are here already so I do I think we need more affordable housing I can tell you it's affecting the church itself and what they're trying to do to try to help people I think the use that was put out there years ago was multi not from multi-family was done for a very good reason it could use retail in 50 to admit would make more sense to put more affordable housing I don't think helps the area I don't think it's the appropriate use bad enough they let's say bad enough but they put a school in dumb by the way that actually affects timber Oaks traffic a little bit more as well I just don't want to add any more to it the limited access you hear about from both sides of the property the problem with that you could be directing from one side we affect timber Oaks more or the other side where it's going to affect Bear Creek more either way there's not a win and you can't just direct everybody 152 is not designed that way so with all the inherent problems with this if the developer does not want to go to a senior housing application which I think we as we talked about yesterday they could do that they still would have to get the landowner on both to do that I think is a much more appropriate way than just the general affordable housing [Applause] mr. Moore Thank You mr. chairman so it's funny you brought it up senior housing this and it was part of earlier

too because that's a suggestion I was also going to make I think you know the presentation kind of proved the point that I was making last week when we have certain markets in certain sections that County they become oversaturated with apartment complexes is this is proof that I think that this is one of those areas again not the entire county and there's some areas along 19 that that could be a good use but I feel this areas have is becoming oversaturated with apartment complexes where the be low income or normal it is that matter to me it's but there is still a need for senior housing throughout Pasco County age-restricted I should I could call you that's the proper term that we would use right David age-restricted that's the terminus using our code that's yes okay I just talked to page and pulled pages I to just to reconfirm that there are waiting lists across the county and in those age restricted apartment complexes so I think it'd be a very good use for the owner or the person coming in that would like to develop this property it would have now for the residents it would have a much less impact on the residents in the community it would also help with that kind of that continuity within your within your neighborhoods in my opinion you do have some people that are going to not going to be able to take care of the properties and their homes anymore but they want to stay close to their friends and want to stay close with their families and they could stay in this community you know not everybody can mow their lawn every day not everybody can handle the maintenance you know on a day to day basis once we get to a certain age in our lives so for I think senior would be really really good there I think it'd be great for the applicant I think it'd be majority of my saying all but I think a large majority would probably welcome that there so I think maybe just having that discussion with the owner again because I for the life of me I don't understand why the owner the property would not want to we want to put a condition that it can't be senior housing I don't I don't I just I don't understand I don't understand that I guess well the guys guys get from the audience okay you can't talk from the audience anyways I don't understand why that would be too doesn't really make much sense to me and especially when it's gonna be rented out I mean there's such a need in this area I had a couple other points I wanted to make to harmony I took a lot of notes where everybody was talking oh they think the gentleman from the catholic diocese earlier said there is okay so he's not full either he's not full right now so the proposal that I'm not bringing in I think again that's another proof to me that the senior of the age-restricted would be a bunch of better views for that area now ultimately would you know along that frontage on 52 we'd like to see office and the job creating the ability of having to drop job creating site there yes of course but I think as a compromise senior housing would be a good option for that area so I would I

greater internal capture and passerby trips than a residential use the residential use does not have a pass by the internal capture and passerby for a commercial type of a use is a lot higher yes so commercial uses internally capture more trips from the surrounding neighborhoods the residential use that's the point that I was trying to make so commercial will have a lot more interaction internally with that residential area so we have in the county a right-of-way preservation ordinance and I know we have a lot of roads where we've we have a long term plan to widen them do you look at these roads here i we you know regardless of what comes in here I'm hearing that there may be traffic issues on some of these roads and I would assume that law Madera is considered an arterial collector as well as Ponderosa they're not considered collector oh really so no how I know I don't know house is fronting on la material I'll have to check that that's looked at in the other department I don't look at right-of-way but I would consider those as local roads local collectors so if they were to be repaved who who would be responsible for paving la madeira if it's not a County collector Road then it is a paving assessment well I'm gonna suggest that we need to look at those roads and see if they're being classified as the correct type of Road and and we've done that in the past North Northwood and other roads in the county have become arterial collectors so mr. Peters just presented and part of the findings of fact I was presented to you for this item it talks about item number 200 findings of fact and it says 52 we already know that this is a state roadway arterial and it talks about llama deer a two-lane residential Pasco County maintained roadway so it is an artery or collector Road its County maintainable but it's a county maintained road but a local county maintained road so again if if the road is not holding the traffic that it hasn't do we need to look at widening this road I don't know this area very well and don't drive around in here very often so I don't know what that traffic looks like but I this parcel is going to be developed and we have incentivized development in the harbor's by taking out some of the development fees and now I don't know how we can go back and say now now on this one use we're going to put it back in so I question the legality of that thought but if the issue is traffic then multifamily is going to have a lot less traffic if the issue is crime I'm hearing that this type of development screens the applicants and there'll be people people with criminal backgrounds are not allowed in here if the issue is safety and we need more lights I think I think we need to look at that eye and if this is a county road and it's the county responsibility maybe to put some lights on so I will tell you the other thing that was talked about today was funding since when do we ask any developer and care about where their funding comes from I never known that to

be something that we base our decisions on is where the funding comes I do believe this is a competitive project is a competitive project and just like the multifamily that we're looking at on 54 and others I think we have another one coming that came in front of us they're all competing for federal funds a small pot I will tell you compared to the need at the state level and and when I met with the applicant he mentioned he was trying to build one of these in Hillsborough County and he didn't make the list I think it was number 15 and they only got to number 8 but I tell you that the need was so great that Hillsborough County Board of County Commissioners if I'm understanding right stepped in and paid for a lot of it themselves I know I know my this is not my area this I guess it's Jack's district but I can tell you in my area I was looking for land for this developer to come trying to put some housing on and I think I think we need more of this type of housing I hear 40 40 percent of please forty percent of our residents could afford to live in here in Commissioner Mariano I would ask you what is the salary of your daughter I believe it's twenty-seven twenty-eight thousand dollars yeah no I just there are there are all kinds of people who could qualify to live in here my son included recent graduate from University of Alabama doing his first job so yeah so I I I would be inclined to approve this and he has to go through a competitive process the state will see if this is a good location and a good project and and 90 I would be fine with the restriction to 90 units and let me see if I left everything I've got everything here I think you have to keep in mind that this is a conditional use and then the site site plan lighting and roadways and those signs are going to come up during the time if he was allowed me sir there was discussion about substandard roads okay just from a visual inspection la Madera does not look a substandard Road Nature Trail may be a substandard now if you do approve this conditional use with a restricted emergency access only to nature trail then the way our code is written for substandard road improvements the project has to be putting trips on that section of the road right for us to hit them for improvements to that road now if you just make that nature trail and emergency access only then / code they're not really putting any trips on it so substandard Road does not apply to that unless it becomes a condition of the conditional use that you're approving that they will contribute towards improvements to that then that's a separate the answer and so I just want you to keep that in before mr. Coyle sits down can I ask him a question yes you have him address the difference in trip generation between senior housing and general multifamily apartments in other words age restricted apartments versus general multifamily apartments what's the difference in trip generation I don't have specific numbers but

generally speaking a LF type of assisted living facility type of uses we all know that its generates a lot less than the general apartments so apartments generate less than some people think it's doesn't make sense but they generate less than single family units single-family residential develops developments generate more traffic than actually apartment units and then ALS senior living generates less than that right okay you know this might be question I was just borrowing mr. Snyder's computer or a second ago I don't know if anybody implanted can can answer this question properly or not but if you look at about a two-mile radius along along 52 in this area how many MF Zoning entitlements are there currently other currently along that corridor and I would also ask are there any entitlements in the sea to any of the properties are currently Zone C 2 because some of them won't have M F entitlements I looked at a map but it was there so many of his hard to count yeah in terms of multifamily along the 52 corridor correct there's there's a number of them to give you off the time I had I wouldn't be able to but just from the aerial images in the surrounding area of this property alone there were at least four or five mm-hmm and they already have the entire list yeah they're built okay I'm just going back to my statement of when isn't enough is enough when it comes to these MF I'm talking about zoning autonomous where that would give it out and just to be clear to the C to the conditional use typically uses nf1 nf2 or and so on standards in order to establish the multifamily within the CGS there so some do we just not sure which ones they are without anything - whereas on the zoning map if you see an MF one its nf1 nf2 is MF 2 etc in right E - you might have the C 2 there and the multifamily that's within that C to be a nun f-111 - but it's not going to show up in the Matheson f1 or f2 rights there could be multiple so we're saying there's four or five within a mile radius there in reality could be more we don't know for sure but there could be more commercial Mariana Thank You mr. chairman you know whether this gets help from the federal or state government I will tell you that I will not support and if just enough regular affordable housing project coming in here you know talking about other land then we can go look at I actually brought this up yesterday the meaning to the property down leisure lane that would be a move up for that area if we could have affordable housing right in there I would think that would be a great place to go I think Habitat for Humanity would love to give up some Lots to go get some affordable and that would definitely help the area when we look at right in this area as well there's a lot of housing in the area for residential air creaks is a nice neighborhood Tim burrows is a nice neighborhood they've got the harbor villas is right there green castles right there I think they've already set this property up

correctly Bethlehem Apartments right in front of the church which was approved while ago is at a hundred percent senior project they're at a hundred percent occupancy whoever would come in here would senior housing would fill this up at a hundred percent because there's a waiting list over there so as far as you want to talk about picking a demand need that was their the best demand right now is that senior housing project to match up with Bethlehem and that would be again very applicable as we know families will drive more trips in senior housing when I look at places like Banyan apartments right on u.s. 19 no issues whatsoever there when I look at other projects that was done in Ridge Road tucked in behind an industrial you know trips in there whatsoever I mean literally those people they just don't drive that much when I see an apartment complex like Dell few mall coming in where they're going to revamp them all that is classic redevelopment those things aren't being subsidized at all that building granite countertops that's going to add to that area that's a good positive this I think would be a complete detriment to Bear Creek in timber Oaks and I'm gonna move for unless the developer wants to say that they would accept a senior project I'm gonna move for denial but if you want to talk to that if its senior and I'll even go as far as 144 units I can support it but if you're gonna go just the way it's submitted I'm gonna make a motion to deny we could put a condition on it you can see you can approve current with but I need to have their support if I'm going to get the conditional use for the applicant so we have an application that's pending we'd ask for you to act on that application which is for conditional use for multifamily with no restriction aid restriction I'm going to move to deny staff's recommendation I motion in a second all those in favor say aye no can I just for clarity is it for the reasons that were previously stated not Alliance with criteria two four and eight yes is that your that is my motion with those criteria that I mentioned before to florentine one discussion real quick chairman Tom mr. Wales I'm all about multifamily I'm all about giving folks a you know affordable housing I mean I know there's there's a need we've seen the need but my confusion is staff and we know senior living yes when he'd seen a living but why staffs telling me that you know we agreed to 60 percent or the applicant did and it's not the case so I guess at this point I would agree with Commissioner Murray I know that there needs to be some senior living a certain percentage in this in this project okay I have a motion second all those in favor say under discussion for one second okay you remind me what to fournette to is the traffic issue no four is the traffic issue to is that it would adversely affect or contribute to the deterioration or quality of life or property values in the immediate neighborhood so are we under findings of fact or what because when I'm like that findings of fact to exact that so am I

on the wrong thing no this is the required standards for conditional use it's just different attachment in your agenda okay so to is adversely affect okay and for is traffic so are we gonna allow any c2 development there so how can you possibly two uses are permitted as a right the zoning is already see to its that's allowed as a right already allowed well we're denying is the conditional use so allowing a project that would bring less traffic no denying a project that would be bringing less traffic mr. stark I'm not sure that's what the testimony was the testimony was that yes from trip generation standpoint it would be equivalent or less but mr. Khalil did testified that commercial provides greater internal capture and passerby traffic so I don't think it's accurate to say that it generates less traffic I well what it if it's internal traffic would be more traffic on Madera & Nature Coast what he's saying is that he commercial use attracts more trips from what's more roads on the internal more traffic on the internet allows neighbor in the neighborhood to then use that commercial business as opposed to driving elsewhere to use a commercial business its to it it's internally capturing the trips of the area it residential use generates troops it doesn't internal it generally doesn't internally capture trips and if we need mr. Khalil to get up and testify again I can have him do that I just I don't think that was his testimony I want to be clear I don't think his testimony was that it uniformly generates less trips we can call him back up and he can clarify that he's just saying if there's McDonald's are you gonna draw traffic from all the residents you cannot speak I'm sorry so see we can get mr. Khalil to come back up and he can clarify exactly how the trip generation works between multifamily and commercial okay because I think that the issue is the internal traffic you're right Ponderosa and nature trail and Road said such will have more traffic honor because that residential will be interacting more with the commercial use yes that he can cite number four because it's doing the opposite well but what are you saying is that he a commercial use that's the motion that's on the hill or doesn't like it she came out against it yeah okay thank you mr. chairman it's just a point of clarification on the on the matter that Commissioner Wells brought up with regard to the 60% of the project being depicted in the findings of fact in the agenda memo there's no indication that that the project would be sixty percent paid restricted so I'm not sure why the representation was made that sixty percent of the project would be intersected if it's not in the finding back so it's it I'm confirming right now that it's not going to be 60% and apologize for the for the computer your team told me that okay well I get it we all make mistakes it's fine so we're good all right I've got a motion in a second all those in favor say aye I like sign say I don't say no hmm you said - I'm saying like sign saying today

negative three - okay next item yeah mr. chairman I understand that quiet please quiet still in session I understand that there's a walk one of the Commissioner wells wants to bring up a walk on item regarding a surplus vehicle that you've all been distributed a memo that's correct did your mic on yeah yes if everybody had an opportunity to read the memo did everybody have an opportunity to look at the memo as I believe you all know I sit on the volunteer Way board and the volunteer way last week their cargo van is out of commission indefinitely so Lester called me and asked me if we had anything in surplus that we could donate to the volunteer way to help them help those in need so that's why I bring it to the board there is no funding required on this I would just ask for your approval to donate this fan to the volunteer way and with that that's my motion again I have a motion a second for the vehicle declaring surplus yes I'm sorry I'm sorry you declared the emergency to take this item up first that would be the first okay okay did we vote on that we are right now all those in favor say aye aye all right that concludes this portion of the meeting we go to rigor item 1 and I need to read this the commissioners you had assuming that this item I think would be over much earlier than it was had agreed to have a litigation assessment meeting following this public hearing is it still the board's desire to go forward with that mr. Chairman I desired the advice of the Board of County Commissioners concerning the case of Diane Farrell Coburn ich versus Pasco County and Bonnie banky case number 5 1 - 2 0 1 6 C a 3 4 8 4 WS florida's sixth Judicial Circuit to discuss settlement negotiations and strategy related to litigation expenditures and for that reason I request a private attorney client meeting its board approves you should open the private attorney client meeting and announce the commencement at an estimated length of the private attorney client meeting and the names of the persons attending at the conclusion of the private attorney client meeting the board's public meeting should be reconvened and should announce the termination of the private attorney client meeting the entire private attorney client meeting will be reported by a certified court reporter and the transcript thereof will be made a public record upon conclusion of the litigation I estimate that the attorney-client meeting will last approximately 60 minutes we have scheduled a certified court reporter to be in attendance in the commissioners conference room for the private attorney client meeting I hereby announce the commencement of the private CERN private attorney client meeting in which the board will discuss settlement negotiations and strategy related to the legation expenditures in the case of Diane theroad cobranet versus Pasco County Florida and Bonnie binky at all case number 5 1 2 0 1 6 C a 3 4 8 4 WS Florida Circuit Court sixth

Judicial Circuit the names of the persons they expected to attend the private client attorney client meeting chairman Ron Oakley if I sure will make more commissioners Jack Mariano Mike wells Katherine Starkey the county attorney Jeffrey n stein Snyder the county administrator dan bowels David a goldstein chief assistant county attorney Vicki H fires senior assistant county attorney and a court reporter the estimated length of the private attorney client meeting is approximately 60 minutes the private attorney client meeting will now commence in the commissioner's conference room thank you [Music] you [Music]