9.25.18. Pasco BOCC Workshop

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okay with that you let me hand over to you mr. Rosenthal is that the plan sir that's fine roll-call yes I'm sorry [Music] here here thank you very much listen I'd like to introduce our director mr. PTO's he's gonna get our meeting started by inducing the speaker thank you God Thank You mr. chairman this is V September 25 one of comics missions workshop for the mobility update study the project began last October added one in which a number of initiatives are discussed for the update study and we'll go through some of those initiatives today in PowerPoint presentations since October 2017 in the ensuing months after that PDD worked toward the formation of the mobility fee Advisory Council and worked on some of the some of the activity needed to prepare for the project the mobility fee advisory committee actually began meeting in April at one meeting in April they had two meetings in May one meeting in June and the final meeting in August of this year and we'll go through a presentation today of what the mobility Advisory Committee discussed and present the results to date of the update study with me today for the presentation is Bill Oliver to my left here he's our consultant through a econ that worked on the project for Pasco County at Gaston a is the chairman of the mobility fee advisory committees on my right here David Goldstein was the chief assistant county attorney and Ernie Monaco was planning a development as well and with that introduction I'll pass the baton on to bill and start the presentation Thanks um right okay so I've got about a 15 slide presentation I hope you go through it maybe in less than maybe thirty minutes twenty or thirty minutes perhaps but if you have questions or workshops I understand so don't be afraid and what I want to do in the first several slides since I believe three of y'all are new to the mobility fee update process at that three or four slides at the very beginning to kind of give you an overview of what mobility fees all about how they're developed and so forth and then they move into changes that have happened since the last update study so looking at the slide I guess you have mobility fees because you need to fund infrastructure in this case trainer rotation you've had either a road impact fee or a mobility fee since 1985 to help pay for transportation infrastructure expanding the capacity of your system in 2011 with the passage of some state legislation that encouraged incentives that encourage urban denser developments and discouragement of urban sprawl there is a the state legislature opened the door to what I'm calling what I call a modern mobility fee which has additional features in it than the old traditional Road impact details and so that's that transition was made in 2011 periodic updates are required to be sure your fee is current and the flex current data so Pasco County updates has been on a path of updating SB every three years so 2011 was your first it's last updated

in 2014 and this is the third cycle of update to that process so those are the key things one other key findings that essentially the theme since 2011 so that's an important thing that we fortunately don't know if we'll be able to continue to do that into the future because things are changing costs are going up so in addition to funding infrastructure one of the features that guides how your fields developed is that you one of the objectives is to incentivize desired forms of development primarily and types of development that incurring jobs to Pasco County and ICS there are other good reasons to have one but one of the primary feature I think that staff is excited about is the ability to provide incentives to encourage economic development of Pasco County so how's the P calculator how do we arrive the fees basically are based on how much of your transportation infrastructure a a piece of development or development consumes and that's expressed typically in terms of the number of trips you generate times the length of those trips and so basically if you have a development that generates a lot of trips or you have a development that has longer trip lengths than other types of development then that land use is likely to pay a higher fee per unit of development those other development we also recognize though that when that travel is made that because of the way the revenue program is set up its generating revenues that are applied to transportation and so we credit back to that land use of the revenues that it generates for expansion under rotation system and so that's the the credits part of the equation and then there are incentives incentives are policy based discounts if you will through the fee program that you have chosen to to provide based on the benefits of attracting that type of land use to Pasco County one of the key features of the benefit of the incentives is that you need to fund it if you decided to give a particular land use or development a discounted mobility fee then you must to maintain equal protection principles you must backfill or pay that discount from a source of revenue that comes not from growth from people who have already been here for 25 years or more budget as we go through the mobility process to be sure you can maintain that backfill requirement so currently has three feet districts the south the purple district is we call the urban district the suburban district is that yellow area kind of in the middle rural district up in the northern part into the green area and basically the way the fees are set up and your fees generally are the lowest in the urban district and they're the highest out in the rural district and then rent it and it's mostly based on the lengths of trips that happen in the rural area are typically longer because land uses are spread out people who live in the rural areas tend to travel into the suburban district or into the urban district or elsewhere for the many of

their needs so trip lengths are longer that contributes to higher the position the quality of service that the county intends to provide and the transportation system is better in the rural district more congestion is considered acceptable in the urban district so the the quality of service that the county intends to deliver in each of those three districts has an influence excuse me on the fee that's paid so so that's kind of part of the rationale and you can see here the current fee rates for the single-family dwelling unit we kind of use that single-family dwelling unit as a benchmark to compare fees and districts 1500 to 2500 square-foot single-family unit and as you can see in the urban district it's fifty eight hundred dollars and going up to ninety eight hundred dollars in the rural district so that's kind of a brief overview of what the mobility fee is and it's a the mobility fee can be expended for any transportation purpose capital needs and that basically is a facility or a piece of equipment or something that has an economic life of five years or more this is defined in the Florida Statute okay so let's shift a little bit and take a look at what has chain since 2014 and what kind of influence that has on them on the mobility DD rates themselves there are many factors that affect that mobility fee is but these are kind of the more significant factors first of all since 2014 the costs of constructing infrastructure have increased we based on the data we've had they've estimated increased by about six point seven percent and that has an effect of increasing what the field might be you're we've expanded the incentives program a little bit to address infill development and residents some residential development in the rural area and we'll talk about those later in the presentation but because we're trying to provide additional incentives it requires additional revenue which then has a tendency of suppressing with that fair or increasing hundred-seventy might be on the positive side your revenue outlook is much stronger than what was envisioned back in 2014 primarily our tax increment districts with transportation or tested read the news out of it because of an increasing property tax base is significantly stronger than what was estimated back in 2014 and so that means you have more revenues available to fund and centers which came in handy growth rates are slower which is good because you have if you have a certain revenue stream if you're trying to keep up with a fast growth rate you have a harder time doing it if you have a slower growth rate it fits better so wait with growth rates being slower you don't mean quite as much revenue to keep up with growth and so that has the ability to reduce how much of a fee you need probably to hire now what we assume the rate of growth would be in 2014 what's higher than that you ever see me again beaver population estimate that's

right they just were all reduced and we also brought in to mobility calculation a more stiffly substantial or because the property tax forecast was stronger the county also feels they will be spending more of that revenue on transportation system expansion but then we assumed back in 2014 so that fifth item is that the text increment self credit was increased this way which allows us to have a protector keeps the food lower so those are some of the key things across the board in the 2018 feasts that should be in your package there are 11 fee schedules that we've developed each schedule has 81 land-uses we've introduced five new land uses into the schedule and in just a second and then and then print the direction that y'all gave us in the October 17th workshop that we had when we picked the project all the fees have remained the same for most of the land uses we had reductions in the fee in certain cases for the technical merits required that we reduce the fees not by the hwachun with some of them but the simpler statement is no fee increase we were able to maintain the direction that we were given back in that October workshop and then and the reason is because of the stronger revenue port primarily because the stronger revenue forecasts so the new land uses that we're gonna do y'all were apparently experiencing a bonanza in the non veterinary kennel which is otherwise commonly known as a doggy daycare land use had been provided for such a lane for such land uses so they're introduced restaurants that serve breakfast and lunch only I'm thinking like first watch type of thing they're open for breakfast and lunch or sometimes just serve breakfast and lunch the fast casual restaurant is a newly emerging land use this is the type of restaurant where you go in and then order it a counter you pick the food up and go sit down at a table and have a reasonably good quality and errands to quote lay a way are the types of our own and I actually heard a piece on NPR the other day where there's many more such restaurants coming out there and they're on their way ice skating arena is a new lane use that's been introduced over the past three or four years y'all have had ice skating facilities come in and actually that beer it was almost kind of pre-negotiated before we got into this study so we basically have replicated that feat program with the new trampoline warehouse facilities fit in that category as well there is a recreational land use category created it Bill's right there the general recreation okay so what were we doing with say breakfast lunch restaurant of course that's big question so they were being assessed the same rate as a sit-down restaurant to sort of all three meals so this is a reduction so there's a reduction in the beef okay what if your restaurant that serves only dinner that would be probably the quality of restaurant there's a quality restaurant category where you sit down have a nice

meal and it takes take usually we take about an hour and a half to two hours that in case another good restaurant to have dinner so that's that would probably fall into that category of restaurant which we have then fast casual or fast food or even high turnover because it's less trip generation for Detroit like after I used to fit in there because they didn't serve lunch but I might they serve lunch now yeah what happens when a restaurant came in as a quality and then opened for life which is okay I mean an Outback Steakhouse would fit in the quality category whether it's basically okay so the fast casual is gonna be a higher rate than a quality yes yes it's higher than like quite remember sit-down restaurant but is lower than fast food is it issue right now of these these folks are being assessed I believe it's about food restaurants okay very high language they don't want to be assessed as fast food restaurants they generally don't have driving crews so they're not they're not having on the same volume is and this is just for when they come into business right this peak when they consider when they bill when they build [Music] I'm sorry this is a one-time fee [Music] Commissioner Moore thank you sir so I ran into a few issues when I have a discussions with some people especially in the West Chapel area where I'm very getting charged ie the same rate as a fast food restaurant when they were a like a bakery for example and I'm all in this thing that has happened at white guys from all we were charging them very high fees because we didn't have a separate category so and these are you know the volume isn't even remotely close for the traffic even remotely close to what comes into a fast-food restaurant I'm probably not even as a or a breakfast lunch or a restaurant or anything scenario where tonight yes there's one but they still and it's not actually giving those categories at all so pair that it fits the curve the many people come in there to pick up water just nothing even remotely instant any of those or even with of when you talk you spoke of earlier that's not listed so we don't have a separate for bakeries when I talk about it that not and we're talking about one not like Olga's down the street we're talking about somewhere where you tell if you order ahead you pick something up in the lead it's not a eat in place it's you know they're making like you said they're making cakes and things like that this isn't a let's go pick up a doughnut I think if I mean if I made I think in the case of the scenario that you're talking about that was a an establishment that was basically assessed a Hydra NOLA restaurant according to the 30 percent rule of the mobility fee ordinance which is that if there's a if it's part of the shopping center was the predominant use that exceeds thirty five percent of the shopping center of the other uses then fall into that kind of what happens yeah which is ridiculous

explain that again in the mobility few ordinance there's a provision that states a certain use for dominates within the shopping center up to thirty five percent for certain use predominates is that what you're saying yeah are you thinking if there's a lot of bakeries in the shadow know that thirty five percent that customers go the bakery shop what do you mean by that in this case there was a high trinova restaurant as part of the shopping center that turned a 35 percent of the space of the shopping center in the st. plazas what are you saying so I imagine a building in they have and there's been there's for lease spaces he's standing that the one next door was that began the st. Plaza so the high was an out parcel this was an al bar so that rule that he's talking about sometimes it benefits people sometimes it does they came to the place where benefits as if you have a factory restaurants that Loki's and internal commercial strip center till DSS the general commercial rate as opposed to these people got hobos I understand that but I'm saying that would tend to benefit everybody a specific use rate but that probably would have the effect of increase in some people's fees just like the people you get about like a five guys okay it's really in a commercial strip center mm-hmm right now they're paying you the general rate of just general from her story and so then I'm paying it fast they're not paying about the degree so you get rid of the 35% role but I which is fine is assess everybody the specific youth great but it's going to have the effect of increasing the fees for some people there are rare cases and this bakery is probably one of them were actually causes them to have to pay a higher fee and when they would otherwise wouldn't pay with it so and I can appreciate that but to me that's a circumstance where we should looked at closer and if you need to make an exception here to make an exception to the rule you have the ability and it'll hopefully the board has ability to make that exception so again they paid it because they want to know what is simply out of her six months with this TCO rule and so in theory somebody I don't think in this process and open it into the fees but the application of thirty five percent rule we have a process I don't know that wasn't explained to me I don't already get to about oh about something like that I bet I'm just using this as an example because if you come up again as growth happens special on the 54 corridor don't they always have the right to do an independent study them or they could've Advanced Study - how much does an independent study cost over there Thomas doesn't think that's not be my god how can adult how could a bakery that sells cookies hey that oh the end the answer isn't even so that it's just said that the studies received require that you find three similar sites that are willing to let you study their site go

and do the traffic so I think one of one of the thought there to think that the fetus page should be tracked to the store yourself so in a sense if he's paid more perhaps they should have at least that fee stays with the with that building of that structure as an asset it would gets passed on to a subsequent user right if another person takes over that space they're not gonna either today is another beat I'm sorry thanks cuz they were already assessed the theme that building that that leads me to a question if I may mr. chairman so I know many of us are very concerned about us 19 and redevelopment on 19 so if someone's coming in and redoing a building or not someone down with building a new one they don't have to pay impact fees we made the change in 2014 [Music] throughout the county you always get credit for acquired use for demolishing but in the West Market area even if you were building taking down the single-story home and putting up a high-rise you're still ok and I just has a hole in my balloon I'm hoping we can will do something with even more more fees on the 19th discussing the time the tax increment that can be used to subsidize the impact of those uses we had this discussion of the schools when we hit it's going back feed they didn't have another revenue source to use to buy down the bees for schools and enough utilities has another revenue source to buy down their fees and so that's the issue from you can use that thing somebody else yeah you know I mean increased increase or non-use I mean they've got a building that's transportation you could do that for other thing keep in mind every time you got stuff to the tip you're taking out of your journal all right let's check now one of the things with the textbook finally probably put in place was because those taken thirty three percent money to go to transportation if you're gonna start bringing a new develop along 19 which it otherwise it's not happening remembers it we've looked at all you're gonna do is if you take a epsilon II put a $300,000 property you're getting thirty three percent of that tax revenue coming in so if all that's gonna flow it's not like you were losing anything anyway because nothing was coming but you're gonna put a sizable forward it's still going to get funded just with the 33 percent trade particular fees but from ability fees we have we have the existing instead of redevelopment and we're about to talk about a new incentive for infill development so that one more time we're about to talk about a new incentive for infill development folks are there so I think we're doing a lot to drive for the West market area hey I can't help you want utility in fact be this one parties today because they're not before you but that would require some non ad valorem revenue source to basically subs are in tough and and will have to deal with that when they get to utilities and schools and

parks and other factories but for mobility I think we've done about all we can I mean zero for redevelopment I don't know thing you tell her these down already what okay so we don't have any I believe it's for addressing in plant capacity right here you're basically reserving plant capacity without beating so now I believe utilities also gets credit for a part of uses as well so if there was already a use there they're gonna give credit for whatever whatever meter was already there but if you have a brand new use brand new make it and fill water in the West market area in theory it's generate additional waste and consume the additional water for which they have the reserve capacity but I don't want to talk too much would it be good so when we look at mobility fees in the in the three different areas or we can we try to balance them out where they're all lettuce or to each other so that that's been part of the problem I've had in the past the rural area is being charged with impact mobility impact amount of the fees has been eighteen twenty thousand out here in the country and lesser amount in the urban area like in Wesley Chapel one those areas and it's that's bothered our citizens they're concerned about having to pay so much more here and airbases well suppose you have a longer trip on the road or something and that's more impact but the fact that it is out here where all these homes are and growing there's more impact there than then in a rural area because you gotta have you know four and six Lane roads to support all these homes in that area and they get more because there's more numbers but it seems like it's a harsh and a lot of our citizens have been arguing in person about the high mobility impact we're having a show there's a change that we're going to talk about the second in the rural area that for large lots of rural area where we're going to reduce their feet okay and that's what led to the warehouse but to smooth out all the t's other than the large blocks in the rural area I'd have to increase the fees in the urban area I do that and I had very specific board direction at the last workshop to not increase any fees so I can't smooth them out and unless you give me authority to raise the recipe alright and I just want to say we don't make I mean what we're doing is incentivizing growth where it costs less to deliver services if you want to look at it what we're doing in our county is a macro statement right well it's also where we have transit plan thank you mobility so we've intentionally decided the trip length issue it's an area of the urban areas along those that are happened here in areas all areas where we have local and regional transit plan for the future so there's another mode there's a suggestion that occurs under there's another boat it's available to the rural area generally does not have any trains available even in future yeah and because you're driving longer distances you want a better quality of service it

wasn't about warehouse would explain with explain an active/passive warehouse stores oh that's okay so after passive warehouse the one of the references would go to is trip generation a compilation of traffic generation studies which is produced by the Institute of Transportation engineers a new addition released last year they redefined how they look at warehouses and so we've introduced we've cleared we've adjusted your fee schedule to reflect the newer classification one is a higher trip generation traffic generating type of warehouse is your parcel fulfillment center your distribution centers more active some warehouses or passive but certainly there's no reduction in there yeah but even even though we reduce those to land uses separate land uses and the fee schedule you're incentivizing all your industrial uses anyways so they just saw an idea I think we just wanted to clarification oh yeah what's good for us on that point mini warehouse used to be in the 2014 we moved it into retail person because it wasn't really functioning a new office or a difficult YouTube right so we now pay the fee in that size you'd like but it certainly well I guess that just we're all warehouses okay what's the P they they know if it's a regular warehouse mini stores not many store you want me for storage well they're all considered against mini storage there's never any mini storage is typically where people put stuff they kept it in their garage that's what I'm various that's they should be throwing so we'll find out what that B is yeah okay so I'm a warehouse and then the standard urban district is about 411 dollars per thousand square feet so that's your classification of a mini stores reliable yeah over there into that classification yeah if they're a storage facility that's primarily residential good afternoon you were coming right so it's gonna be fun class Alvin but if you had a distribution center like an Amazon know where the goods will be zero yeah I understand that makes sense as a job trainer so back to the okay for 11,000 so let's compare that to this give me a fast food restaurant what's about food commercial fisherman district like 40,000 41,000 per thousand square feet I don't dislike becomes oversaturated in this market with a lot of visits a month a lot of you're also bringing in higher vehicles typically [Laughter] have their fees being reduced they said build-out will not be accessible to the poor so we made it clear that they're not there fees are not going down from what we adopt in 2014 I can't think of a good way to increase for beef because they don't generate enough trips taking a poor little office in real space I can they can remove their enzyme entirely which would increase their fees about 24 so okay so what type of incentives they have they're getting in the urban district they're getting a 19-4 so they be incentivizing already whiny devices that we don't be a

so we yeah but inside I want to be clear the reason we give priority or direction to not raise any fees okay with just with some clarification I would take it away if it's one state with 54 if it's on a side road or bad rocks of main the main that's a market area yeah so if that's in the beat well I guess we could take away these that are just in the urban area okay so that one means you don't want it taken away no I want where I object is that we have a storage facility facing State Road 5456 what's bring snow jobs to me a storage facility is a destination and it should be on the back road [Music] [Laughter] [Music] nice to wear those are allowed yeah we need to space that for not something that you don't have to be telling you today if you want us to remove the incentive for many storage we absolutely can do that so make like somebody another area that to be more fitting for job creation but you add that incentive but you just need to tell us whether you want to remove any urban suburban and rural or just urban you tell us what you I'm doing everybody else I think I'm more interested in the land use mobility well this is a nice traction okay so cuz if a mini warehouse comes in and it says sure I'll pay $500 of square four thousand square feet he's still they're still coming I'd rather think you we charge them because all subsidies not going to stop you from getting any warehouse you can take away the incentives now yes and well I agree with him this that's not gonna that's not gonna take them so what commission Merrick said it we reconsider by chaining down a deep crater yeah it's not job creator frankly I think that anything that's not Java graders shouldn't be incentivized okay well alright that's what that's why we're doing this we are incentivizing okay if you want me to remove the incentive for residential retail no I didn't mean that well what else what else we'll be solar - if there is anything of the storage - selling that's it that takes up a lot of land but doesn't you know doesn't really make any jobs so then along those major there's some other use in the fee schedule that you think should just keep in mind there okay it's nothing we should be promoting and no way of trying to encourage any way through this one I would like to make movie theaters no pay no mobility fees especially in the trip [Laughter] oh I know your project is already beating govt rates when you later toward 75% production yes there are so there are those land uses and where we just like had to specialize in there based on technical merits Briggs and this is it's kind of complicated to explain between the tax increment the increased tax increment credit sub credit and between changes to the trip generation rights based from the new ite trip generation manual we had we we basically had to reduce the rate because these

land uses now are essentially getting to no incentives so there are human uses for we ran out of incentive money if you will to absorb other changes it's kind of kind of complicated but it's the way the math works out high-rise condominiums age-restricted multi-family congregate care trip rate reduction the ones you know churches fill out down 12% at the top the top three are all uses that they create very high property values high-rise condominiums a district or multifamily but they generate future a very future trip so for that reason their fees really had come down no I think we should be encouraged a jurisdiction what's a family target care facilities are yes I mean that's the hard way of knowing yeah the hardware this is your free space movement true value hardware store that sounds good hello ey phenomenal decline in trip generation rate and I think that's probably the big boxes are is that so that these Lowe's and Home Depot and no you know this is this is your a silos are getting Home Depot's under different this is your in your laboratory yeah right and I think the big boxes are taking a lot of their business away so that was that was the big surprise it's a you doesn't get through and I think it's good support small business page hardly would fit in there yes do you have what well they got a building it yeah what's the difference gonna stand in a don't worry I mean what makes them well we're a stamp where the produce market Spain if some people they can I just look like a failure and I see nothing in that kind of small specialty category there is one call specialist a retail yeah thanks but I'm not even sure it's gonna pay at all we need to talk about the details of this print is really really small and y'all did express an interest in further incident providing additional incentives in your Western market and so as Dave explained earlier in 2014 you set the fees for any redevelopment to $0 so that is continued into this fee schedule reckoning and we have also added an incentive to the infill development category as well so the redevelopment of square you tore something and rebuilt the site the infield program is if you have a vacant piece of property in this district it's provided a 75% reduction from the standard fee okay so when we say vacant does that mean a building that's closed up prior development it's gonna be redeveloped and we're gonna get you as long as it and there was at least 25% we painted the code as long as least 25% of that law was covered by a building or parking lot or something it's gonna qualify as redevelopment and the lot would also you recognize the prior use the equivalent fee value from the prior use she's already having that'll maybe a credit for that priority yes okay the same as with the jalapeno you tore down and rebuild the structure say the same whoa square footages before he actually and we quit but to be clear redevelopment it's already doing them okay that is 2014 Genesis what the new was proposing

to be added is if they can't lock where there was no prior development on we're proposing the committee's recommending a 75% reduction for those Lots if they're in this max yellow area to be up there okay and have you identified those land parcels because I'd love to see what that looks like I don't have a map with me but we have that information I think we'd all love to see the most discussion at the committee level okay about where to draw that line as far as until and then how much of a government did you know there was one committee member to thought you see in the Commission's doctrine for infill right but the majority of the committee thought it should be 75% it looks like the committee was pretty unanimous though on the boundaries they think it's a boundary some people there is yellow it's not the entire West Market area it's basically if we take Roman Road you know West and then you take everything west of 19 and then some additional nodes that were identified as part of the Harvard plan that's that entire yellow area so the committee felt that that area was in the area that most in need of incentives for Reagan and Bill Parcells and what we're talking about here are only mobility fees there's only mobility of these so sadaiva to where it's regular aerial that hard line is Rowan and Seven Springs yeah under the category of and then we're rowing ends to the north it's it's nineteen yeah yeah I'm sorry that generally is everything west of nineteen and everything wants to throw a committee had pretty good consensus on that boundary is that being the area most in need of additional incentives for vacant and then in other workshops I'd like to discuss other discounts especially on the nineteen you know facing nineteen so we could do that let me develop all right today we're the reason they've done the agrees in the committee did not want to make 0 for infill which is because they didn't want it to be the same as redevelopment they thought the redevelopment should have a bigger incentive infill yeah okay all right the second new incident program that was introduced where this what's called the rural large lot fee and this basically have a residential lot five acres or larger in the rural district you would pay same rate as a similarly sized home in the suburban area so and as indicated there if you have all if you're changing than five days per Lots they'll continue to pay the 9800 dollar fee for the 1500 to 2500 square feet building house and if you have a larger a lot you'll pay eighty five hundred and seventy dollars so let me just add to this the reason that I think staff supported this idea is that our vision for the rural area really is larger Lots and so we didn't think that a large lot in the rural area should be penalized for building on a large law in the rural area now the issue of whether that larger there's two issues that got discussed whether a large law is considered by makers are

pending first hmm there was two committee members have thought it to be ten acres but the majority of the committee so that's why I stopped recommending five acres and larger the other issue that was discussed was whether those homes should pay the suburban rate or the urban rate the committee recommended the suburban rate but there's such little development in the rural area that if the board wanted to make it the urban rate we have enough funds to do that but that's a policy decision I don't want you to think that there's a financial prohibition on you making those logs of pay these are the rage reduce the committee thought with suburban rate review program right on the unit shoe you're cutting the number at $24.99 it will get any higher than that no no that's the he's just shows the example just but all all side units in the rural area to get that benefit as long as they're on a block fighting for degree yeah if you have a smaller home the fee will be less than the 570 and if you have a bigger home the fee will be more government baby but it'll be equal to this home in the suburb I think that's fair in this area saying I thought the rule was 10 acres I would have been on the 10-acre there was that was debated in some of the rural advocates throughout that meeting and advocated that it should be 10 acres but the majority of the committee thought of 5 acres was sufficiently world it should give evidence and the reason island I actually told them also that I thought 5 makers should be the number most of those parcels out there that are 50 70 acres hundred acres in the rural area just out from here most of them cannot develop less than five acres and that's why I determined that a 5 acre lot you give that and here's what I call the budget check and this can compares that this is the list of all the different incentive categories and programs that you have going on this kind of summarizes how deep and learning how to use this spotlight feature the second column basically kind of summarizes to what extent the land uses are subsidizing third incentivized the 2014 column summarizes how many dollars were in the budget based on how much development we thought would occur in those various categories in 2018 we've got about where we had four years I think or 66 years of experience under our belts we found that certain categories of incentives are really not being used that much the Tod land use it was one in particular and so the next column shows so we so we basically revised and reduced some of the categories of incentives or the the the quantity of blame use that we thought we might need to incent incentivize and because the slower growth rates less quantity of land use you might need to be incentivized on the other hand with costs going up there's an additional cost that needs to be incentivizing whoops so basically at the bottom you can see there we go you can see the effect and the total budget that was required for him sentence movements and in 2014 was

about four hundred and fourteen million dollars in yeah in 2018 that required incentive amount actually doubles slightly more than doubles but the amount of revenue because of the stronger revenue forecast you can see that we actually had about twice the money available based on the healthier economic forecast and were able to continue to maintain that level of subsidy so slower growth rates less quantity of incentives the the thing to file a way is that maybe in the next fee update we may have to come back and adjust some things and perhaps after since 2011 actually might have to go back and increase some fees because we can't continue to deliver for the same quality of service and the same level of incentives without increasing revenues yeah holding things day since 2011 don't for the next five years obviously things are starting to flip a little bit where we don't have this much latitude and flexibility but the good news is that by the way the mobility that he was set up is it has autonomy generally improves at 12 it sort of helps us offset the initial increase Crossland construction approach so it's just something to watch over the next three or four years as we lean into the next update um this slide is a slide I think y'all have seen before as the National Survey of citizens what urban issues are one - both issues they are concerned about any particular census so so we can remember this and I think mark gruba showed you this slide about a month ago it shows that the citizens generally think we're doing better so for that reason we've actually assumed a better local service particularly in the urban area in this update because we heard this complaint some of the committee members raised this complain about increasing congestion levels in the urban area and so effectively required us to spend more to address that congestion level in the urban area so we were trying to be responsive to the citizens concerns responsive to the committee's concerns our whole and our old feet get cold feet 21 2014 we assumed a very heavy level jump to the urban area we're thinking the citizens are not going to be happy with that and so we changed the feed and not allow as much congestion in the urban area and that was a concern that was raised all right okay so that's all that's kind of the technical aspects of the these schedules themselves there are other changes that are coming around with the adoption that this program which all will be doing over the next couple minutes first of all we've been doing this update study every three years but your MPO long-range transportation plan which is on a five-year cycle this study really addresses the financial aspects of that transportation plan update so and and that plan is updated every five years so the recommendation is let's things don't change a whole lot over two or three years let's extend this out and that can do the next update and five years rather than three to coordinate with that plan

okay so partly as a result of the fact that we're not going to be updated often we charge a fee what's called an administration fee with the mobility to be to basically them implementing this program paying bill you know dealing with the subsidy calculations from mobility fees because we're going to be updating less often that fees are seeing it goes down right further $392 permit Danvers Olin only did a study where he looks at our actual cost those of the employees they would have to administer geez look at the cost of doing the update and ultimately concluded that because we're gonna be updating in less often because we have more permits and that these are going to go down so everybody in the county is gonna actually see small reduction in their administration to be able to say that you effectively are reducing but they'll get you for everybody we we also made it easier to qualify for the development exemption in the West Market area that's when we adopted in 2014 the old rule required you to have 50% lock coverage to qualify for it but we discovered there some residential uses the clip qualify under that rules so we teamed it to a 25% loss coverage which n do you think now almost any everybody's in there qualified for the redevelopment exemption list is truly a vacant law we also moved out any opt-out languages there wasn't when we originally talked about disabilities in 2011 we gave the building people's ability to opt out but that opt out period was fired to 2016 so we've never do with any language related to the auto town and so next slide as we mentioned earlier of the committee recommended unanimously and away in a fight any of this wrong all of these changes that we just talked about except there were two members who wanted it to be ten acre size for the rural Lots and then there was one member who preferred only at 50% reduction for the West market infobox other than that the committee was pretty unanimous about all the other changes we talked about our next step would be to take this to the LPA which is plenty commitment on October 25th and then report to Fort Aires and November and December and then we'll I had one topic I did want to bring up something I had mentioned before and just see where the borders on this originally hotels were not included in the incentive program and then we added them in and I think we've been very successful in getting a bunch of hotels being built but I'm not sure we need to subsidize hotels anymore I think there it's a very very healthy business they're running at 90 percent occupancy and I just wonder what others thought about incentivizing hotels because it wasn't like they weren't they went in there right and I kind of feel that we don't I don't know that we need incentivize them there they're building like hotcakes they're flipping them because they're making so much money on them and I think they're gonna come anyway because the that market is so strong so I don't think we need to be at zero what miss Jim so I know we have we

have quite a few online right now yeah oh they're coming fantastic but at the same time I think it's that discussion with also wanting to be involved tourism my opinion to make sure we have product because we didn't have product of course and whether people were coming or let's just bring the hockey rink into play for example now yes we have more hotels now more people are able to stay in touch with tango before the tour the people or the bit across from or wherever they were staying outside at County so that doesn't benefit us at all so you think about hotel is one of the things they do besides burning is just TT dollars they're bringing in you know obviously revenues for our small businesses so whether it be our local restaurants or retail establishments if they're buying gas you know they're gonna buy here if they're staying somewhere else and is driving you for the day more likely they're gonna be doing that you know sperm can be Pinellas County so I understand per se this like I said they say Japan serum well but I guess my fear is do we have enough product yeah because you look at what's coming to with the Wiregrass Sports Complex some things for doing countywide there's some other things online that may happen in the future so I think early tourism should be involved in that conversation and say how much product do we need to impasse with County with won't we take that away let me let me yeah there'll be a tiny event will be at that time I don't have that time is right just yet though don't we have like nine hotels or so in the pipeline that would be exempt from see we're still loan sharks right encounters I did I could check they wanted those hotels there because they bring in people from all over the country the customers standing themselves so sort of function as ancillary or I understand I woke up I think we're I think the hotels are very healthy they're doing great in Pasco County at 90 run a 95 percent occupancy do they really need an incentive to come here at zero I'm not saying give them a you know let's go back to 100 percent but do we need to keep them at zero mindful that we we need to have good roads for those people to drive on and that's what this money goes to so that's awesome remove incentives for something I'd rather you see remove them from residential retail that's my thing Kelly you know we talked a long time about the big sporting events the numbers for tourism people who are staying in Tampa and Tampa in town and we wanted to do something years ago to try to change that then and that's what we got it down to zero I'm glad to see we're moving that way we got so many coming in the making money that's great I want to see that they keep rolling this is gonna wonderful five more years before we bring it back I would love to take another look out of that but I mean right now let's let's keep this momentum going let them keep on coming but people on building and let them know that we're supporting every step of the way cuz all

there do we really need one another block away I think they do market studies and they wouldn't be building would up if there wasn't it's hot ready now sure it's hot it's hot for right now but get five years down the road read this look at the study I think over with you won't happen I think it's a topic that warrants a lot more discussion from our planners to understand the impacts of when you start denying don't think it's gonna affect apartments of what's the big deal get more money in our conference for the for the impacts that they're having on our area I don't think it would stop those huge ones that might stop them smaller infill ones which I think we would want well this you have again sinners on the west side accounting for those thirty bill did we just talked about that I just think it warrants a more in-depth discussion with Bill Eamonn Holmes would raise with be in the urban area $15 why see this a 39 71 bumps that up by seven or divide that by point nine three increase of myself listen to me before bar down Oh before mine I am sure it is forty to sixty four yeah because some go from 39 71 to forty to sixty for 250 bucks per day away and 250 peak awaiting sentencing that's one way it's a three hundred dollars it would be more we just we just see you're going back to the we just said where they needed to be they're going to have the incentives for them Commissioner Mariana yeah tell you what if I had to push that I'd want to push on the nineteen quarter all the services there everything's a plate yes and that's three hundred dollars a unit again if that 54 car better serve with higher end residential hotel office complex that's what they want to go and I'll tell you if it is up in the corridor they could be welcome up there that a whole 19 car that we just we put off for 75 percent there's no HUDs much product that you need product there you need people where it says I mean II the product and it doesn't shift them that people that I'm actually okay with doing that no no we just like that we just approved that apartment complex right there next to the house no matrix last meeting which is good you know I I mean it's up to the board I I don't think we need to decide this today the market decides I mean the markets gonna decide how much these we need these aren't section eight these aren't even affordable these are we said we need a circle though I know we're doing it we're doing in a black marketer we just saw the first one command three story it's gonna be a nice project and it's nice to see that in Hudson yeah because we do need it but but it's shows the Millennials that's really what they want is apartment complexes but they don't worry about anything it's again we don't make the market I just I fear if we start doing things like this then where does it stop it's not really up to us I think of sex in a market that's just my opinion well given why do we need to incentivize though there's the question what we mix

it up to the whole list of problems really and maybe we show that much that's why why do you need to incentivize yeah we're lowering age restricted multi-family that's something we need that's a product we need we need that we need that bad in passive County right now if you look at the one in Zephyrhills there's a waiting list I mean for a year problem can't even get in there I people I talked to I would encourage them bill age restricted multi-family we need more more more of that for our seniors that are low income to have a place so they can live and everything's taken care of that's needed okay so again some of the affordable housing in this certain areas that it's an even now I agree a thousand percent with that I don't need we don't need any more high-end apartment complexes on 5456 and that corridor again so why we get incentivize it comes charity so goes I think like leaving the suburban leaving the rural as they are leaves that Western market ever the way it is and just focus on the rest of that car it's just a small little piece and it's not it's only three hundred that's not going to really affect someone's decision or not so it might give us a little bit more money we need to build kind of somewhere yeah exactly which is the impact this severe impact they have on the roads put some more money than that um two things one I think again that we need to maybe workshop this with input from a planning department to understand social impacts and to I'd like to hear from the impact the mobility feed committee what what you think what are your thoughts on on what's being proposed these are 20,000 $25 a month I want to hear from let's see when it comes to multifamily I think there's there's some land use issues that the ability to affect outside what we're discussing today although I do agree that price is indiscriminate that the market clearly understands so yeah if you take away and incentive so differently provide a disincentive to a market it will respond to it I think the magnitude of the incentive for multifamily in urban service area is small enough where it is inconsequential to the high-end multifamily right and so you're effectively removing any possibility of an incentive for workforce multifamily in the urban service area the the nature of not wanting to have a particular land use anywhere in your County is likely far more effectively administered in your land use decisions not in your mobility decisions so I think regardless of what your choices here you're far more effective and administrating that choice in your normal land use and zoning choices that are in your complete control every day when it comes to the ability to provide the incentives for work for small along nineteen thermal his job in doing that so I think those things are are absolutely true what exactly we the full full reaction would be from the mobility feat committee would take asking the

entire committee this is this is my opinion although we do a little work in this county so the reaction that our our clientele would have likely the majority of the applications that you're seeing in the urban service area are not workforce and then consequently the low level of incentive wouldn't be a decision maker the cost of the land is the big decision maker in just the night and I appreciate that I've had a number of people in business a small business in my area that expresses their frustration for the amount of apartment complexes that are being built and quote my dish and I think they're gonna be very vocal in the very near future because they don't want lower income you IOT you can't going back to that you know you keep going back to that when I said that we need more affordable housing if you're talking about I'm talking about the high-end apartment complex just get away from that okay we're not talking about that because we need to locate those in the areas of the needed along with I said the age restricted multi-family that's not the issue we're talking about you're talking about taking up valuable land frontage on areas like 54 56 that could be job creators and they're getting filled with a permit complex apartment complex and stores facility after storage facility it's getting crazy and there's being honest so that's what's going on people are frustrated they've had enough of it and it goes back again to what I talked about with your instant increase in you know of almost a major hit um population in the schools and the writers still but I hear it all the time constant and I thought it's great I mean I don't disagree with one bit so again they yeah Mike Shoji where the opportunity we need them we need the more affordable housing and and there's I'm sure there's gonna be I don't see anybody here but you'll see some of those things come up in the very near future that we're probably have to make some choices on because there's only so much money out there and again we need them we need the age restricted ones those are things we need and again BAM every day surprise I mean I I want to say I think the the committee and staff did a great job dissecting this all the way through I wanted to make sure we did some in the West Market I thought we did some good things to the previous time but I think this extra step is huge I don't think the incentive on the apartments at 7 percent $300 a units gonna affect anything it would give us a little bit more money again mr. Geary says it's not the decision maker I don't want to delay this going out back to the committee coming back again I think it's a pretty small into consequential number that the effect goes but it could do this a little bit more revenue I'm comfortable with staff bringing this back to us if you want to give us the number so we can make enough up a normal on that day we're going to hear some hearing days I'm okay to either make it an agenda recommendation number 1 and 1a or one is

to whatever let us make that call and just leave everything else the same I'm good with doing it that way I don't want to strip I don't want to stretch this out any further I agree great people it'll probably come if you have that big - I'm gonna say no and I'm supporting the Commission Moore's position look if it means that we leave the West market alone you know the suburban or rural alone and just go with that urban core that's left I'm good with that yeah I just wanted to clarify that we have a separate grade for low-income also I think see there's a way to increase regular apartments without decreasing so the urban core goes another ready one correct pardon me the urban core goes up 41 all the area purple so so understand what you're saying that it is not expected to low-income but I agree with Commissioner Mishra Mariano's will bring it back others touch of the day we vote Republican I was just gonna summon to me like there was a geographic issue where there is multifamily being proposed in certain areas and I would agree with Pat that the best way to deal with that is to a land use zoning regulation versus the mobility fee but there is the low-income multifamily feeding schedules they weaken way as well but I just want a caution that you really can't distinguish between different types of multifamily when you're talking so me and land use we can do that with fees and whatnot but from a land-use perspective you're talking about rezoning if you don't want them to have interfaces become so again it can't just be the Urban's giveth you're going to include some of that suburban into because if you look at that 54:56 where it is a lot of that sentiment suburban area okay so so you get the looking suburban in well most of it okay most of the fifty or fifty six quarters in the urban area I don't know many I know we got roads on there but as far as I know the entire food can take all the way over to 301 yeah that southeast corner that that is 301 that's yeah that's yeah that's 300 wasn't their portion of 50 will it be a portion of 52 and widows ever hills in there no no no I couldn't up on the edges right in there and right in there so I'm sorry hold with the question the where the 56 card or 5456 is the is the suburban to the north it panel looks like the dividing line going 52 north-south or east-west is is you know 54 56 isn't it hmm I'll be 54 56 is I believe all entirely within that burglary it is the end of it on the right is at 301 or several real ones this okay all the way over okay which is right now our limits that work with these exact yeah that's right what about we're 54 in so it goes into Zephyrhills so it isn't suburban anything or say there's more brief wears more for example Sonu Sonu apartments then or no incentives for anything in the wooden field what's all that area called that's

coming out on 56 two rivers let's get to this discussion I don't know what you need a vacation well I said we just end it now and have a discussion to the public here well so we send something to the OPA so what I'm hearing is the only thing intubated the urban or a partner that's it so we can create a different page for that one B and just let the Planning Commission know that's still debated that's the only so as a condo complex different than other parts yes yes sensitive to what Eric said from Alania zoning perspective but our fee schedule does have a different rate for condos and um the other thing is you know I recently talked about obsessed accessory dwelling units and tiny homes and so you know putting more units on a lot for infill work force housing is this gonna affect that anyway right now I want to try and incentivize that what what what about tiny homes they're not multiple units on up so tiny lower time zone it would be the lowest size house which is here at 1500 it pays a lower lower fee the other so what what is the depth of I'm sorry but what is the definition of an apartment I guess I should ask where's the condominium what do mean a rental unit then the house could be an apartment if it's rented no multi-story rental is not a townhome we could be able to different rate for townhomes it's not a high-rise condo so say multi-story rental unit and it could be how many more with how many make up an apartment confidence I mean are we limiting any building up to 10 up to 500 is there a size limitation charge per unit so if someone else wants to build one building with 8 rental apartment units which is very common in an urban envelop kind of setting rate they would be discouraged with this if you can't afford three or more dollars you shouldn't be in the business let's put it that way so your doggy unit it's not a unit that's what you're selling that's of six unit whenever you get afford 300 otters that you're in the wrong okay but I'm laughing so very much if you can't afford that then you can't answer definitely have a forty little portable couple looks even a small apartment complex I would make that argument to a hotel business if you can't pay a thousand dollars to help to form ability to be for a hotel maybe should be building with are you building apartment complex down the river no but I deal with their force a lot and I'm on the work committee I mean we have a shortage of workforce housing so that's where and then what we talked about careful where it needs to go where it needs to go is what we're talking about it's just you're gonna have those incentives you know but anyways have some time to search it we'll talk about in the later days on the plant it's gonna go to the Planning Commission there's an abiding commitment before it comes doctor and now thought the same discussion on what they feel that they shall be able to all out that issue to the Planning Commission and get a very specific recommendation hearing what I'm

hearing other than the many stories that's the only issue for debate not multi-family apartments apartments on the urban areas are yes yes yes and maybe I would be more supportive that was apartments of number of units or higher these giant multiple apartment complexes I would consider maybe I wouldn't wanna I can limit the little ones I mean that's if you're concerned about that but I think you're what you're concerned about will be still be five because in the end when the market you're discussing they're going to have those incentives building already that wasn't working yeah the granularity of your fee structure you need to remember that rights and there there's and David it might be beneficial to just quickly read those three or four different categories so that so that the board has then and in top of mind right you've got multiple categories granularity to be able to recognize would be the workhorse multifamily separately but from the market rate yeah we go just multi translate it is percent for bonzer by our Community Development Department is a separate rate yes like what was okay the that when we approved last week what was that consider and I know they already are incentivized by 0% being in the mass market area but I don't think that one was a that's how they they termed it affordable yep I don't know if they got a sponsorship from our Community Development Department to be that to be considered affordable under the ship regulations it has to have certain restrictions I don't know if that project they made just said they were going to be affordable but that's different than deed you're stripping your property to make sure it stays affordable okay the one with fee schedules one where they feature for kids are property to make sure there's always full to it don't forget windows there's there's always any weightless for those okay there's just two different concerns yeah there's always only weightless for those in the same situation [Music]

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