Pasco BOCC Meeting, 08.21.2018 - Afternoon Session (3 of 3)

commissioner sigh next gonna call our next expert witness which is Vicki Mitchell as she's coming forward Vicki Mitchell is a professional real estate agent and she's with Keller Williams in New Tampa and she's been a real estate agent for four years before that she's was working for a real estate attorney and prior to that she was in the banking industry and after miss Mitchell testifies I'm gonna have my client Jim Truex come forward thank you I'd like to just submit this into the record it's miss Williams bio mr. chair before she starts can I ask the coal how much time they've left okay about 24 minutes left miss Mitchell please state your name and address for the record and Mitchell I love it Vicki Mitchell 2 2 1 1 6 labral ain't Lynn Lakes Florida 3 4 6 3 9 and an army state whether or not you've been sworn I have okay thank you I first want to start and begin with the fact that reason why I'm here is my clients Terry and John Ferren contacted me and was they were interested in a property in Serengeti and first of all you know I kind of threw me for a loop because I didn't even know where Serengeti was so which is interesting so I asked my colleagues and my colleagues didn't know either so anyway needless to say we ended up doing our due diligence so we went to the models check them all out and you know they did indicate to us that they were going to be building phase 2 and that those properties would be like in just of the front properties so that said also you know just so you know I did look in some of the advertising that has been done and on my side my MLS site there is no indication of Serengeti in my builders update app whatsoever so and then when you go to Zillow and type in new construction and zero in nothing so if you look at other sites new construction sites such as Tampa Tampa builders guide com again nothing these are all resources that people who reach out to that aren't using real estate agents or you know so anyway we did our due diligence on finding and checking out the property we asked all the neighbors about the community and what they thought and everybody was in agreeance that is a beautiful community and it is and the majority that people said the reason why they love it is for the large lot sizes and the Serenity the nice it's it's just a quiet community overall so anyway that said we also took a look at the covenants the Declaration of covenants and quite honestly in the Declaration of covenants if you look at page seven at three point two three point zero two halfway halfway down so it says the committee shall have the full authority to regulate in accordance with the terms and provisions sorry I get to put my glasses on this declaration the use and appearance of the exterior of the Lots and units to ensure harmony key word is harmony of external design and color and location in relation to surrounding buildings and topography and to protect and conserve

the value and desirability of the land as a residential community again these are large lot sizes and the average price point is anywhere from three to five hundred thousand dollars they are beautiful homes when you first drive into the community most communities when they have phases when you drive in you have a large wide Boulevard you drive in and then you have your different phases throughout the community this this community was not originally set up for that so when you drive in it's just a regular Street in any community so you're looking to add a phase which will attract you know double the amount of traffic than what was originally you know it to be designed for so in retrospect you are going to affect those home values on those on the homes on that Serengeti Boulevard as you drive back to the second phase so after speaking with some different appraisers normally that is the 20% price reduction that side continue thank you that's sad or I should say it's strange so um after meeting last night we all got together last night and chatted and after the attorney left I did in fact hear that a lot of the present owners were talking about possibly selling their properties what you're going to create is an influx of inventory in this community and it will affect value I've seen it I've been through it and it's fun I've seen it with Terra Bella off of 54 so when Luna came in so and and this is not like Terra Bella so again the street when you first drive into the community is a regular street with beautiful homes on it and I don't know how many of you have been through the community but I can guarantee you none of you are gonna want a small tract family housing in the back side of your homes none of you what do you mean by the back side of your homes well technically you're driving through the community to get to phase two give it you're making it out like they were right behind them but you know not mean any towards the end of the development correct so I I think that's I think you can get in trouble for saying a statement like that but that's my opinion well this is this is my opinion I'm gonna submit a question to miss Mitchell on the record miss Mitchell how long have you been selling real estate for years have you been selling real estate in Pasco County during that time yes in your experience if you have a community that has a change in similar to this a change in the development plan that is disruptive to the residents there does that impact the ability to sell homes in that neighborhood in a negative way yes by exactly what I said it increases a lot of people don't care for it so they put their homes on the market and it decreases home values Thank You Jo just just to make an objection Joel - to an associates or the applicant this witness has not been qualified as a real estate appraiser objecting any testimony related to valuation she can certainly testify some matters minor saying she's only a real estate agent not real estate broker not

an appraiser thank you Miss Mitchell to clarify for the record is your opinion about your ability to sell homes and the downward trend on public perception is it based on your experience as a real estate agent yes it is thank you that's all the questions I have I have one do you only sell homes and neighborhoods where every lot size is the same I mean can you think is there another neighborhood will you I mean there's several neighbor can you name another neighborhood where every lot size is the same that you've sold it in the last four years every lot size is the same well Lake Padgett estates I mean most of those lot sizes are the same so you're looking at a quarter to full acre properties and is that totally developed out yes it is but is there one that's under development in the last ten years that has one size of lot that you've sold a home in thinking going through all the communities besides the lake pageant estates you've got East Lake pageant but you said newer than ten years hmm no I can't say right off the bat but again this is this is a different community so you know you're you're looking like what the gentleman was saying earlier prior to me you know normally in most of the communities you have your you have your smaller tract homes up front your townhome your villas your single-family homes and then towards the backside you can't believe that I can tell you many so many communities that have it all over the place that's true but normally in those communities you have the large Boulevard like I was dating and I think it depends on that on the on the trip attributes of the land lots of times thank you thank you we can move on please yes Jim 2x please good evening board if I could start out maybe I could sorry sir could you please state your name and address Jim Truex I live at one five seven one five Serengeti Boulevard and have you been sworn Spring Hill Florida yes I have if I can I start by answering commissioners Starkey's uh question about in individual size Lots and in different subdivisions you can use your time any way you desire thank you um subject to your attorney saying not to okay just answer that question real quick Sun Coast Lakes has all seventy foot Lots Lone Star has all 50 foot Lots Van Dyke farms off of Van Dyke is all half acre lots there's a lot of subdivisions in the state of Florida they have exactly the same size Lots or similar to exactly the same size Lots if you bend that I know you're trying bend it up like that mr. Torres could you explain to the board what your expertise is please yes I'm a class a general contractor and I do design-build work and have since 1980 and my team's been responsible for over 300 commercial projects from conception all the way through completion and our job is to do due diligence for clients on each and every project we design and build and I think I did my due diligence on a lot 66 and Serengeti before we purchase it to build our

custom dream home my research was obtained by the existing Swift mud permit the original zoning pizon in petition review report my civil engineer the marketing information that was distributed by the authorized build at the time we purchased our lot which was Coryell Crestwood homes and arthur Ruttenberg franchise builder and my conversations with dunes in reference to purchasing an individual lot the loss sizes in phase 1 range from 15,000 and 38 square feet to 40,000 143 square feet it's an average of 0.6 3 acre and the average is 125 foot wide not 90 the numbers of 90 by a hundred and ten or one scuse me 125 minimums are not accurate if you look at both the width and the length together our minimum size lot Serengeti phase one is 15,000 square feet everything we research the Swift mud permit all said phase 2 was to be 100 foot wide at the curves the possibility of the of the developer reducing the back phase and the 350 foot wide Lots never entered my mind I remember this is what I do for a living the our three future land use classification Pasco County 2025 comprehensive plants as a developer can ask for mission of the goal of the Governing Board of you with the Oct to build up the 496 units but it does not grant him you and them permission to do that it gives them permission to ask you you can't automatically go out and say we could build for 296 units based on the rest three only we would not have purchased our lot and we would not have relocated the Pasco County if we thought that would ever be 50 for white Lots in Phase two of Serengeti if you grant us a minute without trying to maintain what we bought into you'll change their and gety forever and you'll you'll kill phase 1 this will negatively impact our property values and our quality of life you will not have done your duty to protect the public interest for us to purchase property based on existing planned development zoning we had investment-backed expectations when we bought our lot sir Getty I do understand it is good for Pasco County if Metro does well but we do not want it to be at the expense of our community I do believe that you want to do what is best for Pasco County we ask you also do what's best for Serengeti deny this request to increase in over units and there has never been a compromise offered to us by Metro if I'm basically complete if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer okay so you just made a statement that your stated that a compromise has never been presented to you if there was a compromise presented to you which I know you can't speak for everybody else you only speak for yourself and your attorney can speak for you is that something you would inter possibly entertain I assume depending on what that cover mize is but is that something you would entertain I would have to talk to my neighbors they haven't had a chance to speak let me see what they say up here and maybe we'll get an idea well it's I think it's important since you

made that statement to answer that question or ask your attorney if you can answer that question because if you made the statement I would ask that so yeah that's fair enough okay Kent okay so continue with that sorry Commission is it okay for me to make I say that's a mine we had objections on the record while ago for somebody speaking for somebody else so mr. Truex is going to answer for himself and I believe there are people from Serengeti who I do not represent who are here and you'll probably he'll hear from them yeah can I hold up that comment till after those people have a chance to speak my times yeah your time will be okay I'll just abstain for the time okay I just have a question because the attorney brought it up and I've been going through all the Zillow records of sales in here and I'm trying to find someone who built their house and when the when the deed restrictions were 2000 so um when did you build your house 2016 we moved in a year ago July 4 2018 so 2002 July 4 2017 we moved in and you know most of your neighbors I would guess every one of them so do you know anyone who built a house when the deed restrictions were 2,000 square feet I'm not sure what you're asking well the deed restrictions changed in 2006 yeah it should be a minimum of 1,800 square feet and I'm just trying to I'm just wondering if anyone built a house into 2005 before the deed restrictions changed before the deed research every home I do know this the 13 homes that were built by Lexington homes were all bigger than 1,800 some of them as much as 6,000 square feet but it just was brought up about the amendment and it's so I think you answered my question okay thank you so much you're welcome any other questions well I was in his home and he's built a very nice home out there the Serengeti or last Friday after listening to the some of the homeowners on Thursday talked to the applicant between the two but and talked to him and his wife for quite a while but he's got a very beautiful home and Serengeti itself when you come in as it's got a very nice expansive roadway and all that you come in and it's beautiful there's no doubt about it my mind I'm gonna agree with you I was out there today yeah and it's a stunning development and even when you come out of it when you come out and you've got that beautiful pond facing you when you come out it's absolutely beautiful and the homes are lovely after after visiting with him and his wife and I'm seeing that property I can't believe anything behind there in phase 2 well anything that's not managed right it's got to be a mess right but I would think that nothing would destroy the value of is Homer or his neighbors and the phase one because is absolutely beautiful and I don't I think anybody come in they're going to the back to look at the property in the back if it was changed well not necessarily all of them buy back there because I think it'll make a lot of them because what he

has in phase one build up front and put life back in that development if you want that much yard if you want that much yard that's right as a chair could I ask Nicole how much time the opponents have left okay how long 11 minutes let me you can I can I mention a couple things about go to his comments thank you thank you sir thank you Thank You commissioners we are going to conclude with our with 11 minutes to spare because I've called all the witnesses I'm going to call however there are a lot of people in the audience here today who I believe want to address you and they understand they have three minutes to speak they're not witnesses I've called and so they're not we didn't count them in to our hour so to conclude the competent substantial evidence we have presented today that's in the record before you and in the record before the DRC was expert testimony and citizen fact testimony to support denial this decision the decision of this board has to be based on the criteria in the county's own comprehensive plan and land development code this is a quasi-judicial hearing and that is the law there is a legitimate public purpose to maintain the status quo based on those criteria and based on this the competent substantial evidence before you today so we request that you deny the applicants request to increase the numbers of Lots and decrease the frontage and the setbacks thank you okay thank you Anna for we do public comment I believe Commissioner Moore and I are supposed to be in a meeting at 6:30 so we're gonna we're gonna take a quick five minute recess just so I can make a phone call and so we'll be back in 16 minutes for Joel to and then we have residents I think take five minutes behind me it's ours we had a speaking age of 30 going on doing this call I gotta make a one two I gotta do some speaking engagement too so I think cancel you out gonna hair it's late what don't what's not talked about where we're going [Laughter] [Music] we'll leave that to ourselves [Music] yeah my call back to order that.you SEC meeting of August 21st 2018 we will start with public comment I do have several folks signed up so I will do my best not to say your names and correctly mispronounce them but if we could start a line I'll just name the first three and then as we get closer I'll name some additional three so Pamela Joe Hadley okay very good mmm okay one down okay yes what's his name okay step forward and we'll figure it out in a minute first guy so behind him can Fran is it show make schumake Ansel flowers please line up yes yes but line up behind him so we can get through this if you can line up behind them please go ahead sir if you could state your name and address for the record state your name it's Warren okay please you have

not corrected not okay please raise your right hand do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God I do thank you my name is John Nita spall I live at three one one seven excuse me heart pine avenue in odessa florida obviously have us throat problems i'm very interested in building a home in Starkey ranch but only if today's proposal is denied I currently live in a beautiful home in Starkey ranch on a lot that's 50 50 feet wide I moved in there last year in July my house is currently for sale because very honestly after living there for one year I feel like we're packed in like sardines so I my I'm here I appreciate being here to be able to speak since I haven't been the plan but my request for the residents is documented Serengeti is that their request is approved that this is this a proposal is denied thank you thank you sir French you make one five six to nine Serengeti Boulevard I just have a few quick have you been sworn ma'am yes I have I was in the room when you did that I just have a few quick comments I don't start off by saying there is not a single John Deere tractor in Serengeti I would also like to ask mr. to that he says that the the neighborhood is dead in the water and there's no activity in the neighborhood I would like to ask him how to explain the five homes that are currently under construction through Avalon that the ground is being broken on the pads are being put in there's five of those currently happening right now today if you drove around you saw some of that I'd also like to ask him since it's a dead neighborhood how he explains the 24 closings that have happened since 2015 on private Lots resales and new builds okay and I'd like to reiterate what the real estate attorney said unless you know about Serengeti you cannot find Serengeti upon the internet you've got either be able to type in Serengeti or you've got to be able to type in a specific address we stumbled onto this community three years ago after looking for three years nobody knows where it is we live a mile from the Publix people in Publix where you left airing it where is that you know the people that are closest to it don't even know where it is I don't know if that's a marketing issue or what but it is not widely known people do not know that it exists it is the best kept secret in Pasco County I guarantee you that if more people knew about it they would be there you know say if you build it they will come but if you don't tell them about it they don't show up so I don't know what the what the deal is they keep saying that they haven't sold a home in 12 or 13 or whatever it is years their first attempt to sell anything in there current round since it went down it went down in 2008 it stayed dead until 2013 started coming out of the receivership and all that stuff what all the litigation and everything when it went banged up bankrupt their first attempt

setbacks and side setbacks thank you for your time hi my name is Susan Rice I live at one five six four three Serengeti boulevard and I've been sworn in three minutes three points number one character open spaces vibrant places when my husband and I found Serengeti a little over a year ago we finally found a neighborhood with open spaces we take walks almost every day Serengeti offer offers a truly unique opportunity to walk in the neighborhood that provides ample green space spectacular natural views from the sidewalks because the houses are situated on large 125 foot Lots allowing enough room between homes for unobstructed views of the wetlands and Wildlife currently all the Lots in Serengeti allow room for three-car garages which reduces the clutter view of homes on 50-foot Lots with three or four cars parked in front Serengeti is also a vibrant place where wildlife thrives in plain view recently risk home sales Harvey's older than six new neighbors just in the past year and I know a mall number to Reliance my husband and I and at least 10 of our neighbors bought our homes in Serengeti with reliance on the fact that it was designed for a hundred and sixty four homes on 148 buildable acres surrounded by another 150 acres of wetlands and wildlife buffer we placed our reliance on the fact that these plans were promoted by metro and the builders and approved by the Pasco County and would therefore protect us from an inconsistent land-use number three consistency metro development wants to increase density by adding 59 homes in Phase two well nearly doubling traffic for home sites in Phase one according to a statistic cited by Metro development each home each additional home in Phase two will on an average generate an additional nine point eight car trips per day with fifty nine additional homes that's five hundred and seventy eight additional car trips per day on Serengeti Boulevard this Metro proposals ents a significant reduction in lot size and a reduction in frontage and side setbacks these changes will result in a permanent and negative impact to the character of Serengeti as it is designed today this is not consistent with the approved zoning existing size and current development activities seen in Serengeti it is certainly not what was promised to the current residents and landowners Pasco County Commissioners and his professional planners are in office to protect County residents from zoning changes that impact the consistency character and value of their property investment we ask you to do the right thing for the people who relied on your plans and invested in Serengeti please deny the request to increase the number of lots with reduced block sizes and reduce setbacks thank you very much for your time and by the way I don't own a John Deere but I have a hand push lawn mower hi there my name is Terri Ferran I'm at 1 2 6 3 7 Sarah narrow Valley Court and I was sworn in so again my name is Terri Ferran you may recognize

my name from the many letters I've been sending to y'all what I mentioned is my husband and I are probably the last people that moved into the neighborhood where the very first house as you go through the entrance it's a 4,000 square foot a state home that we started doing all sorts of expensive renovations to right before we found out there was going to be rezoning and every single car that comes into the neighborhood and the increased density is going to pass right either in front of our house or next to our home we would have never left our beautiful Golf Course home in the Eagles in Hillsborough County if we knew that this was going to change we have small animals that we walk we're concerned for our safety and quality of life and we just found this beautiful neighborhood my husband is very active checking things out on the computer he found the home we contact our realtor Vicky Mitchell she'd never heard of it even though she's very active in the area I've been working in Pasco County for years I never saw it none of my dog Jers that I've called on in the pharmaceutical industry for years have known about it I can never find an ad anywhere I don't watch commercials because I record everything or watch Hulu so I don't it's never in the Parade of Homes I'm always looking we're Serengeti so I don't know what's going on or why they can't sell homes or why they don't want to sell homes but we love it the way it is I'd be more than happy to have a Phase two maybe if there was another entrance that north entrance I'd be fantastic I just don't want every single home you know all that extra traffic the construction the gates wide open people coming in and out and just changing the character of the neighborhood that is so beautiful and that we've worked our entire careers to be able to afford thank you very much thank you Tyler schumake Daron Shaw Allison Shaw my name is ty schumake I lived at one 569 s Serengeti Boulevard I have not been sworn in all right is there anybody that has not been sworn in that could stand it gets worn at the same time - Sam okay perfect you're the last one time all right just for the record everyone still needs a state on the record that they've been sworn when they come up okay do you so only swear affirm that the testimony you're about to give is the truth so help you God I do thank you so first of all for all of you that went out to Serengeti thank you so so much for coming and we appreciate you spending your time you remember that great big sign out on 52 that points to Serengeti down down Hayes Road no there's not one hmm a little bit strange I I was in the Army for a long time and I bought and sold a lot of houses and one of the things I learned that I had to do when I bought and sold a house or a lot or whatever was to advertise it was to take pictures and get it on the MLS and getting into Zillow and put it for sale sign in it on it did anybody sitting here see a for

sale sign on a single lot in Serengeti I would bet you didn't because there are none and there have not been any there have been no Zillow listings there had been no mls listings they've made very little effort to sell anything in our neighborhood yet we come to you today under the guise of them not being able to sell and serengeti i have a hard time with that basically we are here essentially in my mind wasting your time over this this this situation because we haven't done and i mean by we metro what they need to do to sell this neighborhood to service this neighborhood to move this product to make this thing a reality yet we're asking for relief and i don't don't know what they're asking for really from one exit down there selling watts at least as big as these for a hundred and fifty a hundred and seventy-five thousand dollars off highway 54 and they're having a great time doing it 24 homes and lots in RNA have sold since 2015 24 and it's only 95 that's huge that's huge turnover that means that Serengeti is viable they just haven't done what they need to do to make it work I've got a car parked in my backyard that's for sale but none of you can buy because you don't know what's for sale there's no sign on it I don't have it listed anywhere nobody knows it's for sale that's what we're talking about here nobody knows Serengeti is for sale nobody knows Serengeti exists ladies and gentlemen they've not done what they need to do to sell this neighborhood and now they want to cash out double it double down and leave that is just not right that is not in the public interest and that is not the right thing to do thank you thank you sir hi my name is Darren Shaw I live in one two three zero seven Canyon Boulevard and I have been sworn in I'm here in opposition to Metro development rezoning Serengeti phase two I believe I can offer a unique point of view here based on the fact that my wife and I own a lot in Serengeti and a home in Lone Star Ranch subdivision which abuts Serengeti why is this relevant because in our opinion Lone Star represents precisely what proposed Serengeti phase two will look like modest homes on modest Lots using builders that support this type of economy driven home as part of their build portfolio our home is 1481 square feet it's a three-bedroom two-bath Zillow puts it at 162 to 179 the just value is 130 and the lot comes out to five thousand seven hundred and fifty square feet and our setback from the kerb is 28 feet 9 inches so 35 feet isn't we're not moving heaven and earth so it's not that big of a difference right Lone Star Ranch consists of 190 single-family home sites and sitting on 50 foot minimum 50 foot wide by 115 deep lots it is mix of Standard Pacific KB and Lennar models ranging from 1,200 square feet to 2,000 square feet conservatively price from 125 to 180 with rentals commanding 1,300 for single-story 1494 2-story making these properties very attractive for investment opportunist weather

corporation or homeowner driven moving into Lone Star we had hopes of living in a neighborhood with charm and character tree-lined streets sidewalks well manicured yards where we could develop a deeper sense of pride and community for where we live instead our reality is this yards that are unkept and neglected homes that are falling into disrepair with stucco there's cracking and falling off multiple families coexisting in what is supposed to be a single-family home as such cars numbering anywhere from 5 to 7 crammed into the small two-car driveway sometimes spilling out into the front yard our surroundings read as well an increase and an increase in crime in crime due in large part to our unobstructed access to the park for at least that's what all the law enforcement officers tell us we have a rental growth penetration of over forty percent in growing living in this community for over five years we've seen this neighborhood decline into what is effectively a transient rental community again why is this relevant I've just described Serengeti phase two down to the lot size down to the square footage of the homes in the Builder Lone Star shares a property line they share a street so these homebuyers are only feet away from Serengeti that's it thank you thank you I went into your neighborhood today until when I was out driving around I told them I'd go through all the neighborhoods I want to say whoever's doing your garbage pickup they are doing a really bad job and I called the head of progressive is that who picks up your garbage yes yes and he and he was going right out there because they are dumping your garbage cans in the street throwing them on the driveways and the lids over here was horrible so I took a book to pictures and I called the president progressive well the homeowners to need to be responsible they don't they put bags and bags and they overload the cans I saw a few of Turkey buzzards get into it the raccoons get into it and it turns into a mess but they shouldn't they shouldn't be doing that with your cans it's gonna be putting a ministry with records alright yeah my name is Alison Shaw I live at one two three zero seven Canyon Boulevard I have been sworn in I am here in opposition of Metro developing phase two of Serengeti to what they're proposing these 50-foot Lots I live in Lone Star Ranch I am a young professional mr. - who bought a 90 foot lot in Serengeti so they are out there we bought our property in Serengeti based on the master plan that was put in place for the community and as we searched it is the only community like it with these Lots now with this new proposal that will change how is Metro going to distinguish Serengeti phase 2 from what currently exists in Lone Star Ranch if they're using some of the same builders maybe Lennar or others how is it going to be different how will they maintain the property values and the wow factor that makes Serengeti special what will they do to make it look different

so the community is not just another cookie cutter shake-and-bake just add water or a lagoon to set itself apart from what was originally sold to the Serengeti residents understandably this is why we looked outside of Lone Star Ranch we found Serengeti and we were once again drawn by the charm and character we were sold on that Serengeti offers those large beautiful Lots expansive protective wetlands and conservation not to mention responsible home ownership within a gated community in an attempt to build my husband and i's dream home the enjoy living in Pasco County and we both work and make the commute to Tampa every day our desire to fulfill this dream is now on hold because of metros planning performance scheme to take an existing development and use it as collateral damage while they pump million into the county where promises of new communities schools sidewalks improved infrastructure using unforeseen commitments of long-term stewardship once you give permission to Metro to redesign in existing communities such as Serengeti is going to set a dangerous precedent very difficult to refuse the same scheme when when are there other massive projects in the county does not bring the profits that they require do we really think that Metro Group LLC needs the financial relief it says is required I mean they're sinking in quicksand or maybe they're sinking in with a lagoon have you seen Crystal lagoon I know some of you think it's awesome do we think that Metro was holding car wash events and lemonade stands in order to cover their construction costs along those same lines we do think Pasco County is in desperate need of 59 more 50-foot with Lots in this county no we don't need 59 more homes thank you thank you okay have two others signed up Ronald Matt or Matt a and Gary Peterson that's fine she can come up that's fine you [Music] benda my name is Ronald Maddie I live at 208 1:5 Jaffa Lane in Land O'Lakes NLA I have been sworn in I know you're all on information overload and I feel for you so I'm gonna be quick you've all read the various reports you've heard the folks talk who live in phase one you've heard from the legal experts on both sides you've heard from the technical experts you've heard from the county staff and you've read all the letters that flooded your offices and cleaning the including the ones that I sent but you know at the end of the day today to me anyway it's all about one thing integrity one thing integrity is something that we either have or we don't have there's no halfway measure with those who have it integrity is their moral compass it's that little it's that little GPS inside of all of you that helps you try to separate to use your words the weeds from the shaft and it helps you navigate we've got to make difficult decisions that the dent at the end of the day when you go back home and you look at yourself in the

mirror and you look at your family you can say and you want to say I did the right thing I did what I had to do oh I'm going to ask you to do something you probably haven't done in a long time go to your computers find your own website go to your own homepage and halfway down on the left hand side you'll see a section it's called mission vision and values click on it and there you'll find a statement under each of those headings and the very first statement under the heading of values integrity and there you'll find four words underneath that and you've heard these words several times now doing the right thing what I would like to think and what I'm asking you is to listen to your little GPS do the right thing do what you know should be done and sent out a message to your constituents that the set of values described on your homepage is not simply empty rhetoric thank you thank you sir pamela peterson one five six one five staring giddy boulevard and yes i have been sworn in i'm here to tell you that our daughter and son-in-law live in concord station they love serengeti and they chose to be married in our backyard last winter they took their beautiful wedding photos in the park like setting that is Serengeti they took them on the rustic bridge in the fields in front of the wetlands and the ponds they would love to live in Serengeti but they're concerned too about this rezoning proposal they don't want to invest in a new home and have it end up looking like where they already live we built our home in stairing Getty in 2017 because of the large lot the natural setting the protected wildlife I want to remind you of that we have gopher tortoises we have sandhill cranes you may have seen that in my email we found Serengeti by chance and we realized that it was unique there is nothing like it in Pasco County which was in fact something that mr. to testified to in front of the DRC and said again here today because a community is unique should be a reason to preserve it not a reason to dismantle it and make it look like all the others we were assured that Serengeti including Phase two when it was eventually developed would consist of large homesites natural wetlands and the same open vistas this is the plan that the county approved and the plan that we relied on and we were checking our old emails the documents that you saw the map that you saw miss Howell present were sent to us were given to us we use these documents to make our decision about spending our money and building a home in Serengeti now Metro dune is asking you to default on that promise who can a consumer trust when building or buying a home when they're making the largest and most important planning decision of their life can they trust a builder can they trust a developer can they trust the County Planning and Development Department can they trust this County Commission if consumers know that they can't rely on zoning that's already in place they can't trust the

assurances provided by those who are selling them the home it can't rely on the information that is central to their purchasing decision what consumer is ever going to want to build a customer's semi custom home in this county again thank you anyone else that would like to speak on this item okay please come forward and anyone else you want to line up behind her okay this will be the last hi I'm dr. Mary Newport I live at one five five zero zero Serengeti Boulevard I have been sworn in I just I want to start by they were on the map shown by the applicants attorney that there was at least two mistakes that I spotted one was my own lot it was color code yellow as a metro owned lot but it is my lot that I own that I bought from Coryell Homes and I live in it so it's a built lot and there's another one jacent a lot 38 there are two homes they are not one there's another lot that has a built home on it before I moved to Serengeti my previous house was a custom built house on 10 acres in Hernando County after losing my husband I wanted to find a quiet place to make my new home I looked at a dozen different models in different neighborhoods and then came upon by chance Serengeti subdivision and immediately fell in love with it each house is on a generous lot with no house behind any other house surrounded by conservation areas with large oak trees and lakes since moving to Florida in 1983 I've been aware of the high quality of Arthur Ruttenberg homes and was over that I could have such a home in such a beautiful serene area the gate I wrote increases my feeling of security as somebody living alone I was shown a map by Ron Smith of Correale Crestwood homes who owned a number of Lots in the subdivision and this map showed phase one and phase two was similar sized Lots I was given a copy of that map and that highly influenced my decision to move into Serengeti since I believe that the home owners of phase 2 would likely take the same pride in their homes it was evident clearly evident in phase 1 I signed a contract to purchase my lot in May of 2016 the lot is just over point 9 acres 40,000 square feet it's surrounded on three out of four sides by conservation area with a beautiful lake behind it and I moved into my new home on December 5th of 2017 the neighborhood has lived up to my expectations as quiet and serene greatly enjoyed seeing the wildlife of all kinds there I'm concerned that if this rezoning request has granted the character of this neighborhood will change and will impact the wildlife as well as my own life I paid a premium price to build a new home on this unique neighborhood 60% higher than the assessed value he showed there not that I want to pay more taxes but I'm a physician I do home visits with some of the poorest people in the poorest neighborhoods of Pasco County and Hernando County and when I come home I thank God that I'm fortunate enough to live in such a serene and beautiful place as Serengeti so I am respectfully requesting that the Board of Commissioners deny the request for rezoning of the beautiful Serengeti

subdivision because it will significantly change the character of the beautiful place that I get to come home to every day thank you thank you mr. to mr. chairman ladies and gentlemen Joel to again for the applicant and I remain sworn I'm going to be as brief as possible in rebuttal first I want to deal with some of the technical items that counsel for the for mr. Truax MS Hatley went through first the CCR's yes they were originally recorded in 2005 at 2,000 square feet minimum they were amended lawfully amended and recorded in 2006 8 1,800 square feet the permits and the approvals clearly demonstrate that the site development work was started in 2006 was not even completed until 2007 and accepted by the county and Swift mutt therefore the CCR's were amended to 1,800 square feet before the site work was completed and before any home was ever constructed in Serengeti so it's our belief that every home that's been constructed in Serengeti in terms of public reliance and what was promised every home that's been built there was constructed with full knowledge of a recorded deed restriction of an 1,800 square foot minimum home on their title policy and referenced in their deed so that's that's the fact there secondly the Lexington homes versus Metro Development Group relationship that's very easy to explain Lexington homes found the property created the product implemented the zoning and did what a lot of builders do they went to find themselves a lot developer who would spend the money to develop the Lots and sell them the Lots so it was a Lexington homes project much to metros chagrin yet signed a contract to pay for all the development and the land and to sell 100 ad a contract to sell 100 percent of the Lots back to Lexington homes so yes Metro was the lot developer for Lexington homes and when Lexington homes went bankrupt guess who was left holding the bag and who it spit the sixteen million dollars it wasn't Lexington homes it was Metro Bank took it back the rest is history so those are the facts in the relationship but Metro never created that product that zoning that that whole plan yes they were a willing Lotte developer in a hot market in 2005 that everyone thought would last so that's the relationship number three the competent substantial evidence argument you guys know this better than any of us you do it all the time we're not here trying a lawsuit we're here to make the right decision based upon your comprehensive plan your land development code your common sense your County policy and what's the best for the community but because the argument was made that I didn't present any competence potential evidence for the record I'm going to articulate the following first of all I'm not qualified to speak on matters of economics land use zoning I do have a degree in economics with honors from a very good educational institution Davidson College in North Carolina and so I do know something about economics I have worked exclusively in this arena for 39 years

two months and 11 days but who's counting the first ten is a commercial trial lawyer litigating land use cases so I certainly understand what competence substantial evidence means the last 29 years doing development approvals I probably zone 200 properties in Pasco County in the last 20 years I do understand your comprehensive plan you're down at the land development code your policies and and and what is in the surrounding area all of the planning Maps all of the planning maps were created by height design a reputable design firm that certainly is qualified our application was prepared by them all the justifications in terms of comp plan consistency compatibility all those application documents are part of the record they're in the file they're prepared by height design so we do have an expert planner with their work in the record our marketing data as I indicated before our marketing data was not done by real estate agent it wasn't done by real estate broker it was in fact done by an MA AIA praiser Martin C Engelmann jr. all the work that we presented has his name with his permission as the author of that work so the velocity absorption all the comparable sales all the market data in the record is supported on our side by a confident ma eye appraiser in addition we took actual data from your county property appraisal records as I explained and certainly your property appraiser is an expert the DRC recommendation under Florida law if we're going to split hairs and trial lawsuit the DRC recommendation as your expert land development review committee itself is an expert report so if you follow through with your DRC recommendation for approval the law is that that eleventh is sufficient basis for a decision because that is competent substantial evidence that that independent body that is qualified to review such matters in fact can concluded that we were compatible with the surrounding property we are consistent with your comp plan and that under established County policy this is a logical rational modification of an MP you dearie zoning the staff report let's talk about that because during the break I questioned your new Planning and Development Director mr. Pitts tose and I questioned mr. Rosenthal since miss Howell testified as staff that we somehow didn't comply with requirements if you look and for the record if you look at the official board of county commissioner agenda memorandum that is the item you are acting upon it is executed by mr. Pettis who is MS Howells boss he is your Planning and Development Director he is an expert it was issued through mr. Rosenthal your sister County Administrator who is his boss and if you read the recommend bored action it says adopt the mqd rezoning request subject to the attached to rezoning conditions of approval it doesn't say deny them it doesn't say we recommend denial so frankly your planning and development directors

expert recommendation supersedes and replaces Ms Howells personal opinions that she had before DRC I'm not even sure why they were put in the record don't really think it's appropriate I think it's quite a strange procedure because the official county staff expert recommendation coming to you is for approval in the agenda memo just like your DRC recommendation was for approval so as to the expert basis I think I am qualified to testify on the matters that I spoke to we put an appraisers reports in on marketing data we've put planning and comp plan justification in the staff record by hot design the DRC recommendation of approval and the official staff recommendation is for approval so shortly said I've litigated enough land use cases to know that if you see fit to approve the request it certainly is going to be defensible in a court of law if someone decides to challenge it the next point that miss Hanley made was public reliance on approval as a stated before the recorded official document that's on their title policy says eighteen hundred thousand square foot minimum Lots there was no commitment made to them that an mqd plan would not I'm sorry homes 1800 square foot homes there there is no document recorded there that said that no mqd plan would ever be changed and in fact getting to mr. Allison there planner and his testimony as their own planning expert he acknowledged to you and I was taking notes first of all mr. Allison agreed that the applicant was correct as to existing market conditions he acknowledged that the market is the smaller lot not the law a lot he didn't dispute that he acknowledged it and he also acknowledged under his category impudence petitions he said quote it is not unique that imp UDS commonly change this occurs common he said and we all know that so I understand that no one wants the world to change but the truth is the world does always change and it has changed so I think they kind of defeat their own public reliance argument their own experts acknowledge that the square-foot minimum was legally amended and and and is there and and their planner acknowledges that that were right as to market conditions the next point ms Hatley said was consistent with consistency with the comp plan consistent with the consistency with the comp plan can't even be rationally debated it is a res 3 category we are using less than 50% of the res 3 category so of course we're consistent with the comp plan designation and to that point going back again to your official board memo from your Planning and Development Director item 8 in your board agenda memo from your expert staff says the proposed request is consistent with the Pasco County LDC chapter 400 subsection 4 Oh 2.2 zoning amendment mqd Master Planned Unit development and with the applicable provisions of the Pasco County Comprehensive Plan so you do have a finding in the record from your own Planning and Development Department of consistency with the comprehensive plan so that argument can't be debated

lastly on this hatless point was compatibility with the surrounding area we put up ten surrounding neighborhoods in fact all 10 surrounding neighborhoods and they never challenged that any of those were not correct that they do have a majority of 50-foot Lots they have mixed product and in fact Serengeti is the outlier so if the test is compatibility with the area clearly we're compatible and I showed you specifically the lake side two phase 2 project that you just approved in December of 2016 yourself where you introduced in the back half of that community behind large lots in the front you introduced 50-foot Lots attached product in town houses so if it was compatible there and made sense there clearly that would be the case here I think our conclusion here is that contrary it's easy to stand up here and say and I understand why they don't but it's these their parents say they haven't tried to do anything well just think about whether that rings true to you what developer do you know would sit on a 16 million dollar loss for 12 years and have 57 lots in phase 1 and all of phase 2 that wasn't calling builders calling developers trying to get a deal going they obviously have tried or you wouldn't have a bond builders in there as mr. Lawson testified they have cut a deal with Avalon to give them at least a dozen Lots that they will sell them at 25,000 and the last two they sold them at 20,000 and then I just heard that today Metro bankrolled the Avalon model for them to build a model if that's not trying to get traction I mean I don't know what more you have to do but it defies logic that when you're invested in 60 Lots in phase 1 all of that infrastructure in phase 2 that you aren't trying to do something the reason the project hasn't moved isn't because they haven't tried is because the market is the market it is what it is and no matter what any of us wish or hope it's not going to make it different so as they say the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result and that's the point we're at so we we implore you to please act consistent with your official staff recommending from your new planning and development director mr. Pitt does and with your DRC recommendation from your County Administrator and department head staff and if the conditions we offered to change based upon our individual meetings help you get there we're happy to do that and and please feel free to adopt those revised conditions if you see fit to prove this but we implore you to do this otherwise we don't have a solution and there's nothing we can do to get out of this so thank you very much for your time we appreciate it and I'm sorry that it's taken so long any questions for mr. so I asked the gentleman earlier in reference to the compromise I know we had a little break I don't know if there was any conversations between each side's representatives in reference to a compromise because you know this is a

time if you're gonna have a compromise or maker compromise now is the time if not it's getting about to go to the board and we're what we decide is the end result so we we appreciate that and from the applicant standpoint in all fairness to us we had a DRC recommendation of approval and your official staff recommendation approval based upon what DRC approved we have come to the table in my view we proposed six changes that I went through with you that are going to cost us thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to build that Sidewalk and build that trail and do these other things and and and we're gonna lose one more a lot for that play area because that's what that is that's just one of our building Lots in phase two so in all fairness we did bring more to the table mr. Moore I understand where you're coming from but the simple fact is we've also conceded those minimum lot sizes in terms of square footage with some very aggressive lot sizes there so my position is the applicant is given we've never had anything from the homeowners other than they wanted to change from what it is obviously we will not agree to not change it from what it is because that is insanity so we've brought six new things to the table and a large expense I hope that would be enough and just frankly that's that's all we can do that's that's it we have no more dry powder left that's what we can do so I understand if you can't approve it you can't approve it and we'll just let it sit there until the next millennium well we'll go develop other projects I appreciate because I asked that side of what it's fair it's only fair to ask both absolutely and I respect it and the only way that you got these other six conditions is because you asked so you know you did a good job of getting a lot more then then I really think we were technically obligated to do but we're happy to do it and Joe real quick we you know we see these all the time land use attorneys working with the residents to come to a conclusion and and a happy medium and again I'm not saying it would have happened but I think that you should have reached out and tried to make it work and again we see these all the time where it's worked out before they get here to us and I think it's great that you listen to us and made some changes but we're they're really the ones that matter in my opinion I just I'm just throwing it out there mr. Lawson met with them numerous times before we even started the process their position was made clear to us mr. wells okay mr. chairman mr. Mariano like Jill and I want to I want to say I appreciate you and Mike for actually listening to a lot of my suggestions putting them in there I will tell you when they brought him to the residence it just wasn't going to affect what their biggest concern was was the change of lots from 125 feet to 50 feet that's been their biggest thing from they got go when I first heard about this I kind of pushed his ever way to compromise so I

appreciate your questioning the Commission more as well but one of the comments that was made was as far as the sale ability and the activity it's out there I didn't hear you address when one lady talked about 20 foreclosing on the private Lots and the five lots that be in the construction now the number of lots that we've given you that Metro has closed its absolutely 100% correct because we have the books and we know my guess is that there were a lot of Lots sold out there before they're vacant lots and there's probably activity and construction or previously owned these there's no I'll be help yourselves doing that there's probably activity out there on lots that were previously owned by third parties but we know when Avalon takes starts a project with us if they close a lot from us they don't even get that house constructed an insult to later and a lot of times they don't even pay us until they build and sell both the house the number I'm giving you are the actual Lots owned by Metro for which we have closings and that's just a cold hard fact we've had to year to date that were closed with Metro both of those at $20,000 apiece as a discount to Avalon to try to get something going out there so you know they can talk and say oh they won't - about how many houses are considered some people may be reselling their houses that has nothing to do with us if their home resells I never stood up here and said that nobody hadn't resold their house but we don't control that we have 57 Lots in phase one and we know how many of those go out the door and close and we get a deposit and unfortunately the deposits we've gotten at 20,000 dollars a month for the ad sizing budget we would have to sell one a month just to pay the advertising budget so I mean it just doesn't make sense so I mean I mean this in the nicest way cause I do a lot of work here and Lord knows metros made a huge investment in the county but you know we've done all that we can do and the reason we didn't go back and negotiate compromise it was clear to us the only compromise that's acceptable to the residents is a solution that won't work if we can't reduce the lot width there's nothing we can do unfortunately that is our only solution otherwise it will just we'll just stand where it is and and go from there since my zoning is expired I may reapply for new zoning for townhouses in the back and Lots in suit and see what the see what you want to do any of your comp plan because I got res three so I mean Metro will decide but we would appreciate your support Mike you wanna soon Oh good to go both members of my Clausen Commission Mariano just clarify what Joel was talking about so we have 57 finished lots we still own in phase 1 or a total of 95 there are 22 maybe 23 24 homes that have closed there are still other owners roughly 16 or so so it could very well be maybe some of those Lots have new homes being built on them which is good news to hear is that when we see the amount of closings that have taken place from the lost a lot of

sorption from the planned developer standpoint that we look at and you know we're averaging 2 a year out there and Avalon has entered into five cell contracts over the last four months five months two of those resulted in locked closings which is a lot and home package so the lot closes and then they get a loan to build a home and then when the whole thing closes that's when we get paid for the lot but that's only two this year the other three one head into 2019 so we're still even at that pace if it's five if it's five Lots per let's say let's say six months at ten a year there's still six years for us to sell our remaining Lots just a paper which we will do whatever it takes to sell the phase phase one loss and maintain the attract integrity of phase one we're not disturbing that but we must have relief in Phase two we've got to get a product that can accelerate the back end of the deal get traffic into the community and that's going to accelerate the 90-foot lot cells as well you know I have no doubt that if you bring any smaller builder with smaller Lots you're gonna get more activity but what troubles me is these people here we looked at it an MP UD that took all the design work all the team work from the county putting a plan together saying this is what we're going to do this is specific all the way through and now to kind of come back and change it to these much smaller Lots do you think you would sell better if you had let's say a model that was there or a couple of models that were there that could be on the lot where it could be staffed shown marked off the Lots like we've seen so many other developments where they kind of say lot number one two three four just like what's kind of dotted out here and show people what's out there so when they do drive through which if they drive through the you know left side of it they can get in and out of out of the development but maybe that would actually help you if you won the market property absolutely right that's how you that's how you sell a community like this that's why we have a model home for people to go and see the model to buy that home on that line that's how you move laws that's how you sell homes it's a model center but in phase two there's nothing that's attracting any builder to even want to market there they we've been so ever launched the forth builder since dooms owned the property in 2011 to market loss in this community so on a smaller lot minimum 50 foot though some of these Lots are ten fifteen thousand square feet in total areas so we're talking blood sizes that will have they'll have their own model centers in that area to draw in traffic and that's how you that's how you sell that's how we sell on all of our communities where we sell more Lots and develop more lives to any developer in the region I'll be in the state we're just having a stumble here know that a mix of products the only solution here we solve problems we do the most complex transactions I think the county has ever seen but the county staffs help we've done some incredible

things here we can solve problems and this is the solution to Serengeti and we need to implement it and we need your help to do so and we'd appreciate your support and Commissioner Marilyn if I can just respond and then I'm going to stop but in a sense of fairness and is it is it fair or reasonable to modify the second phase of MV UD you and I both know that you have seen dozens and dozens of those and you just approved December of 2016 lakeside phase two I showed you the picture if it's not fair or appropriate how did that get approved 5-0 by the same member sitting here so it's either an appropriate change or it's not and clearly that was appropriate and they're right they're right in the neighborhood and it was done so it's clearly not inappropriate and it's clearly not unfair because you guys wouldn't do something that was unfair so that's that's all I got to say once one sec mr. to mr. chairman and in July I will tell you I think you're a brilliant attorney mr. Lawson I think he's done a phenomenal job of a lot of different projects with Metro especially the Crystal Lagoon but I'm gonna tell you when I heard the presentation and then I will talk this has been one of the toughest ones I've ever been part of I mean when I first heard about it went back and forth I've gone back and forth we side every single way when I saw your presentation on the lake side the part that got me was okay lakeside yeah I remember that remember that coming forward not a single resident was objecting but I look at this more like Heritage Springs when they kind of loaded up when they didn't want to see a complex going right behind the yard because the knew was gonna affect their property values they knew was going to affect the quality of life so I look at these people telling you that this is not what they bought it's not what they expected and it's not what they want to stay in so where the half of themselves you get almost the whole neighborhood here it's a completely different world than lakeside compared to what we're seeing right here and let's face it the market is driven by what people think and what they think is going to happen and if these people here are going to tell you they're gonna move out that only hurts Phase two but it hurts phase one so that's where I see the difference I appreciate that but certainly from a conference that plan and on paper using this hatless terminology it's going to be hard to explain lakeside phase two and not explain Serengeti phase two because they look exactly the same and the other thing miss Hadley told you with all respect is you've got to look at confident substantial evidence and that purely whether people do or don't want it isn't competent substantial evidence and I realize you guys you guys have to live with that okay but the truth is that's not the standard the standard is is it consistent with your comprehensive plan is it compatible what you've already approved in ten immediately

surrounding neighborhoods and you know the fact is that from the technical standpoint this meets every single legal requirement that that that could possibly apply and has your expert staff recommendation and your DRC recommendation and the only reason anybody could vote against this based upon this record is because an existing resident objects and I understood that's not a legal standard sorry sadly did you know sorry sorry I apologize so can I have well I wanted to ask mr. PTO's a question no don't get sir rebuttal yeah I mean I think I just as as the planning director I have a question transportation and an in your professional opinion is this neighborhood able to handle up I mean you must think they that it was if you DRC approved it is the is the road adequate to handle the increase in the Lots nektarios PTO's with planning development they were quarreling had mentioned in her presentation was that based on the density requirements a certain segment of the roadway would require an upgrade to the to the type of road that was that's been identified for the land development code and I was trying to take note so fast I missed what the number of houses triggers the width of the road so 191 99 101 to 200 as a type 2 okay so in our seater we have a hundred and twenty-four and the road is 20 feet wide so with no sidewalks so that's another thing the land of development code requires that those streets but be brought up to code and that means that type four streets need two sidewalks on both sides okay that I don't understand what any what does that got to do with this so it's still part of the street infrastructure so what's your question you you said that it had to be a type - yes and tell me again what type - is a type 2 is 12 feet of pavement that's one three four feet so how are we improving other subdivisions without type two roads that's what I want because the other subdivisions have come in and they said I'm gonna build this many units and they build it they don't stop construction in the middle and not convinced oh when Eris was when Eris Teeter was developed because I only I'm just trying to reference things I know it was this what is this a new requirement since then or this has been in the code since 1989 so how are we building subdivisions with some of the subdivisions or Mottram there in that streets streets are less because it's a mudroom there was never much room there was not much of money her Stata was developed I know that okay I think I think we have some not we're not able to defend the type two Road in my opinion some Street something up stuff okay that's not an accurate statement okay there are many developments that request alternative standards from streets those standards so it may be that airs to you or any of the other projects that have narrower street lists got an alternative standard approval from the DRC or staff so that's very common to give alternate standard and that's very possible because if I remember they purposely

narrowed the streets for traffic calming is that not one of the tools yes you narrow the streets so that the cars drive slower yes ma'am okay those alternative standards now are approved administrative leave by staff so you would never see those deviations come to you okay it's it's a routine occurrence and I think even Carlin said and Joel said as well that that's how staff deals with these issues they think that it doesn't need to be that wide in a particular case people usually handle that through an alternative Channel okay thank you the road back on phase 2 is 11 feet on each side which is 22 feet is that a sub is that a sub standard own get me wrong don't get me wrong the streets at built-in Serengeti right today today for 64 units in the back are to code they are there's nothing wrong with those streets they're the type twos were the type threes work it's where they it's where they start having to become a type 2 or 3 Street is only 50 you say 59 plus 57 new Lots is a hundred and sixteen or so so the face where's the trigger I think he wants to know what the tour is the trigger effect with the decrease the pressures in Phase two intensity where's the trigger the trigger the trigger is a hundred and one so when you hit 101 lots going out on that Street that Street needs to be a type 2 sorry I'm locked out of my you know what you say number than that so now it's been a long afternoon I know both sides have been here since one well you can't cut from the audience we go for but since a 130 or so Serengeti is a beautiful place it's a beautiful neighborhood Metro at the same time you know you guys have done some great projects across the county and to continue to do some excellent projects across the county and we appreciate that from especially from economic development standpoint so and again I appreciate everybody's professionalism today I know there's a couple digs a little bit but I think I understand what the passion comes digs at time so I forgive you you know with me and I've struggled over this one quite a bit meeting both sides having conversations of both sides if you followed me the last three years or so it's rare that I deny any type of zoning like this but when I've had concerns either denied or express my concerns or asked for a compromise it's been for reasons where I felt that residents of an internal community were sold something or told something and then that changes later and that's why I have concerns here because I can see it look at maps that show how many Lots were I don't want to say so because they weren't sold to him but that were presented to them and what the renderings look like prior to them buying into it and we had a couple situations over the last couple years that were similar less and and and I did not approve of those I can appreciate the marking that's going on now that metros participating in especially with the TV time I think we're we're no we don't know how long the cycle is gonna last we never know if we all knew how

long the second was going to last would be Warren Buffett right it's just a matter of fact I hope it continues I hope the cycle continues for a long time so with that I think that you know with the marketing that Metro is doing I think you mentioned since the beginning this year with the TV TV advertising and additional marketing you're doing all the way through possibly through April and the development going on especially along that 54 corridor of moving into 41 coming up to 52 we're starting to see it get to that area I mean I have some confidence that this product will work I really do I mean it's a great product you guys have a good product thank you I honestly feel you do I think this it needs some more time I need some more time to bake with their current market conditions right this is my opinion I know I know that's I don't have I'm a county commissioner all that much guys but I I do I do feel like it's gonna it can move and and I will be honest I'm until this came up in farlis I'd never heard of Serengeti I never had I mean it's the truth I mean when I it is true I never I'd never heard of the of the development for so um you know it's it's tough again again I I do appreciate everything I do appreciate metros doing I know I heard a couple things but I do think the chrysalis look crystal lagoons a great product I do think what's happening around and around the crystal lagoon at Emerson Ranch is is is is going well and it's going to continue to well this one I don't know maybe it's just not in the wheel your wheelhouse I mean you know and that's okay you know I just I I feel like we would set a precedent doing this and I I know we mentioned you mentioned the one product that was to me it was a different story then went through last year yeah I mean I could go on and on I mean just I think you know just the consistency and the character of the neighborhood I think we're just getting away from that if we move forward this time I just think it needs more time debate just one of the things that so I don't feel that having the same sized house on a smaller lot is going to do a bake have a big effect on on your homes and I've asked other professionals this question what do they think do they think this will affect the prices and and I don't I think most of our communities are mixed-use communities or they have various size Lots and it's very unusual to find one like this I personally think if they get more traffic in the back and put on the market lots that I think the market is calling for they're gonna get a lot more traffic and there there are people that are going to want to live in that kind of neighborhood but not have that large lot I can tell you I have two houses in in Pasco County I have one with three acres it cost me a fortune to maintain I won't tell you that if you want to buy it but it's trying to find someone to work in the yard is killing me and and then I have another one that is much much more

manageable I don't think the traffic I think I know you think that traffic will be an issue but I don't believe it will again going back to my experience in Aris Tita and and it's really not when I drove when I drove through your neighborhood today I was the only car on the road the only one and and I know mr. Shaw excuse me you cannot do the head mr. Shaw talked about Lone Star and I don't think that's a that's quite the same conspiracy as what you may have if this is successful in the back because you're you're a gated community and and I don't think you would have in that kind of setting I don't think you'll see crime like you might in an open community with a lot of renters I don't see that happening in your neighborhood but um I you know we sit up here and we meet with lots of our constituents and as I as I told you before we represent the people of Pasco County and we represent the business interests of Pasco County and I really respect the gentleman who was talking about integrity because I feel I have a lot of integrity and it's very hard to be up here in our position and and to have hundreds of people advocate for a view that they believe is very very true and I respect that but being up here and going through situations I really feel I have to base my votes on what I think I know as as what are the facts and I think back Commission Mariano to some of the things you're saying I tried to explain and I didn't do it well what the people were meeting with me to the time when we had all those from the mobile home community on 54 who did not want the McDonald's next door and they were adamant that that McDonald's was going to kill their property values was going to kill them because they wouldn't be able to get in and out of their community and and you know we we have this many many times where people have a perception that I don't that is very emotional but not maybe not real all the way and and we we shouldn't base our facts on that I've always said I'm gonna go by the facts not how many how many people are here because because then we'd get ourselves in a bind if it was just how many people showed up that's the way we're going to vote and I don't discount your your emotions and it and it is a very hard vote but I truly believe this is not going to affect your values yes I wish you guys might have compromised a little bit and maybe gone to a little wider lot and dropped a few Lots out and I'd still wish you would do that but I still I'm basing you know don't go to 55 or something but it's the same size house minimum it's 1,800 square feet if you were building a smaller size house I would really have had a problem with that I hope that that I you know I don't know what these homes are going to look like but I'm I know that you want to protect your investment in the front and so I I feel confident that it's going to be a quality home and not a low lower value neighborhood than what you have in front because you have you have an investment in the front and you're not going to shoot yourself in

your foot but some people want Big Lots some people want small Lots and I believe that this road can take it plus you have an exit which we didn't have an air has ever see do you have another exit and let's see if there's something else go and I think you're getting and I'm very glad for all the other amenities the developer is adding in here with the bike trail and the park you know I kind of put that on us on the county why did they should have had that Park from day one so how is it that we said they had a park and they didn't so that's something we have to deal with internally to make sure these things get done and so I kept thinking that's that's what I've got yeah and then I preached and I appreciate what you said Commissioner Starkey and I get I think let me just respond in this way I think again it's apples and oranges what you're mentioned like a McDonald's or something like that because listen if this situation right here was a Sony issue outside of the HOA outside of their neighborhood it it's night and day this is within their neighborhood it's a lot different than somebody wanting to up zone down zone side zone whatever zone they want to do in a in a in a lot that's not within their neighborhood or a section within their neighborhood so I take it as this so if you look you know it's it's within its even though it's it's within a master playing development I mean that's the difference then Dennis we have a situation where it's somebody trying to own a property that you know what they don't live in it they don't live on that they know the McDonald's that wasn't in their neighborhood it was close by to them but it wasn't in their actual neighborhood you know that's it's it's a big difference so in my opinion we do we do rezoning every board meeting yeah we do them all again but the difference is I go back to where I again what I talked about earlier and you know which way I've voted on certain things and the times I've denied has been within a neighborhood or making changes within a neighborhood sorry so it's my daughter's 15th birthday and my wife is wondering where I am I'm sorry that dinner with the hub yeah but within again it's been situations like we had one recently obviously they were trying to make a change within a neighborhood the residents in that neighborhood were shown something it was going to be this way and this is way was going to be when these other rezoning 's we're not showing residents that the laying down the streets going to be a certain way they don't live in that neighborhood so so it's to me it's night and day and I appreciate you what you're saying I really do I know we got to move on I can tell you this was probably one of the hardest decisions any of us have to make in this job I visited with homeowners last Thursday I went out with mr. mr. X and visited our home it's all Serengeti I honestly believe that is a great product sir no way you live there I know why you want to be in that area but I also at the same time see it that it's not moving it's not alive like it

should be and I honestly believe and all the friggin I don't I really sweat with the idea of changing something but changing it brings it to life I want to bring it to life I want you to have a good vibrant community moving growing doing the right things having families and sharing all those things that you have and they're your home at that smaller light in the back I honestly believe in my heart that it does not change the value of those homes up front and the fact that that development going to smaller Lots in the back bringing more people through there to get there is going to sell the Lots in the front I guarantee there's people there's a percentage of people gonna drive in there and not want that home that could be the same size as the one up front they're gonna choose that a lot up front and pay more to be up there and being sorry Gary because of the type neighborhood it's going to be in a future so thank you Commissioner real quick if I could and then I'll get the for mr. Mariano value or what we think the value is has nothing to do with our decision today right our decision today and it comes down to me is how was it developed it was developed for 170 Lots that's how the infrastructure is put on the roads every single resident the common denominator that they had was every single one of them was given a map told exactly what it was going to be up until two years ago or even a year ago when somebody moved in that's my issue is there you know you're being told one thing I do know there's changes and I appreciate everybody's hard work but at the bottom line is it's a little different it's a little different than what Commissioner Stark you said again I I'm going to deny it but I'm going to listen the Commissioner Mariano and I would appreciate a motion so we can all get home I'm gonna make a motion to deny the application I think staff had it right the first time mr. chairman if I may what I would recommend is the motion be the motion that was before the DRC which was approved the MPD rezoning request subject to the attached rezoning conditions of approval that were tendered to DRC but deny the applicant's request for an increase in density with all respect for the record that that approval is not before you and you you don't have the right in an MP to approve conditions that we don't want so you need to either all right the only application you have before you is an application to increase density so if you're going to deny it you need to deny that but you don't have the right to improve an MP UD and forced it upon us without our asking it's a choice I'm sure I understand the mojo I think the issue is your MPD's technically expired and that's how we want to leave it you don't you just want to deny completely well I think the only thing you can do I went through this at DRC we applied to modify it to increase density that's the only application you have before you you need to either approve application or you need to deny it but

legally the only application you have in front of you is the applicants application to modify and increase density so you need to approve or deny that application and we will not accept an approval on some version of the NPD that you want we either want the one we want or we want it denial I'm asking the question more specifically assuming the conditions were exactly how they were before all you were doing was extending the duration of the amputee we we have not thought that application we never don't want the NPD extent absolutely not we do not want the 90 Lots extended absolutely not if staffs position is we don't have an imp you D we don't have an MP you d will start over from scratch for the rest rezoning that's what's going to happen but you're not going to approve one that we didn't apply for and we did not apply to extend that 90 90 foot block and we won't you'll never see that application I don't agree that mr2 is right in his legal theory it's an MPEG you can approve it in any way the application is before you unless they withdraw it anything you can stipulate it any way you want but if if the board wishes to entertain what the applicant is desiring which is a flat-out denial so be it I mean you you that was your original motion if the board decides to prove something we didn't apply for we will withdraw it before they approve that but my legal request is to act on the application we filed because that's the only application you have I'll move to deny um your guidance I think you could do either one I mean that my belief is and in 25 years of practice with PD type projects the board has that authority to approve it regardless of the applicants mister to you can sit down now thank you I have the right to know I think you have the ability to do that but if it but the applicant has requested that this board just flat out deny it if that's if that's what the majority of this board wants to do I you know you can do that for the record the applicant did not request a denial what the applicant requested was an approval of his application or a denial of his application we request that you approve our application my objection is you can't approve an application we didn't file and if you intend to prove one we didn't file we will withdraw that before you act that that makes sense to me how can we prove something we didn't file thank you all for your time we appreciate [Music] you