9.22.26 Pasco Board of County Commissioners Meeting (Afternoon Session)

Right. Amy Frell, budget director with Pasco County's Office of Management and Budget. And we left off here with [clears throat] the constitutional officer budget slide. And so here you'll see in FY2027, it's what's currently in the budget for each of our constitutional officers. The dollar difference and the percentage difference is the change from 2026 adopted.

Any questions?

Um, Commissioner W. Thank you, Chair Mike. Now's a good time to bring up our exhibit Chief Daniels for this testimony here. All right. So to kind of preface this going through budget line items and and and and looking at uh really the unfunded mandate portion and digging into it a little bit further and in light of amendment three um we were looking at structural balance particularly within the sheriff's department um when the sheriff during his budget workshop had a couple of slides. I don't know, Chase, if you have those with you or not, but in related to uh the teacher pay referendum, county attorney has an opinion on that. Uh and uh what what that can be used for. And then by law, the sheriff's department has to fund um school resource officers and crossing guards. and thinking about the future of of all the planning, especially if amendment three passes and what goes on. There's there's a delta there that our sheriff's department covers that's well through our budget that's roughly $5 million. And the teacher pay referendum, according to county attorney, uh does allow those deputies um and those services to be paid for out of that pot of money. And this, you know, the school district is not touched by amendment three should it be passed, you know, and then they have their their their millage rate on the ballot also. However, Pasco County government will be and we're going to have to look through things through a different lens. And so working with Chase, I'll let Chase explain the technicals on their side. Um, and Carbala has the details, Mr. has the details on and Chase does too on what the school district is currently paying, but the the percentage breakdown. Um, we really our side of of the house doesn't receive much benefit from those deputies with the work and how their work schedules are. So, I'll tee it up like that and let Chief Daniels take over.

Thank you very much. Uh, Chase Daniels, Pasco Sheriff's Office. Um, so, uh, thank you very much, Commissioner. Um yes. So as the commissioner noted in our budget uh our current fiscal year 25 and 26 budget uh we have approximately $2,577,000 uh for school resource officers and $2,432,000 for school crossing guards. Um those in increase in our proposed uh fiscal year 2627 budget uh to 2.63 million and roughly 2.46 million. We do receive from the school district uh $4,90,155 and that essentially pays for 180 days of an SRO uh at 8 and a half hours a day. Um we do uh have some costs when it comes to supervision such as our our captains and lieutenants and sergeants. Um but but essentially as as the commissioner noted uh the school district pays for 180 days out out of the year for those SRO. Um the sheriff's office is responsible for uh a variety of things that make up those other 185 days out of the year. Uh so they will traditionally do their inservice during the summer. Uh they will use their pay tied off their pay tied off paid time off that they incur during during the summer as well. Um so realistically we have them uh in a patrol function two to three weeks a year. Uh we use them this year. Uh we heard from the from the board a lot of concerns about um ebikes and things like that. So, we will traditionally put them on special details like that uh during the time when we do have them. Um, but yes, we we do bear the cost of of all their inservice trainings and uh and and their paytime off because they traditionally don't take paytime off um during the during the school year. Um we have been working with with the school board when it comes to to the referendum. uh part of the referendum uh that that they expect to to see if if it should pass on on the renewal uh is an idea of paying for some extra SRO's because what happens right now is let's say an SRO is is out sick um or something like that. We will traditionally take a detective or or another officer from our agency and have them fill in in that SRO role during that time. Uh so there is that ancillary cost as well. Um because I said uh we pay for an SRO for for every middle or they pay for an SRO for every middle and high school for those 180 days, eight and a half hours a day. Um but whenever it comes to uh you know fill-ins, floats, things like that, we're we're responsible for for those costs as well.

I have Can I go?

So I've noticed recently at football games because my son's on the football game, there are lots of

deputies and SRO's. I I think Friday night there were like four of them. So is that on you when they need additional SRO books or

Yes, ma'am. So So things like that uh and and thank you very much, Commissioner. So So things like that uh whenever it comes to school threats, for instance, or or deputies at at schools, um we do that based on on the threat environment. So if we maybe have received a threat at the school during that day, we we will surge e extra personnel there. Um but that is over and above the the one SRO that that the school district pays for. Um you know, uh so I was looking through the sheriff's budget letter here. So last year we had 365 school threats. Um so as you can imagine uh you know that requires a a significant uh response from us. We have to respond with detectives. Our threat management unit is is engaged look into it. Um obviously patrol units come because if we've got a report that there's potentially a gun or a weapon on campus for instance. Um we cannot be wrong on on those types of calls for service. So we surge a lot of resources there over and above the the one SRO on campus as well.

You guys have to do a face to face to face clear each room, right?

Yes ma'am.

Yeah. Okay.

So, chair,

so basically,

you know, if we can work depending on what what the future looks like and this is looking towards the future because the school district set their budget, but should next year's budget site budgeting be different, which I think irregardless, we need to have this conversation. I think the school district needs to pay more for those deputies. It's for them by law. It's an unfunded mandate. there's a millage rate on the ballot that, you know, this board approved for them to do and that money can be used to to pay for those costs, pay for those heads. And then that allows us the flexibility, allows this county the flexibility to free up money that we can put to work and what we're responsible for. And so it would be, you know, a a conversation with our school district partners to see what they might be able to do because they won't be touched by the amendment and they have the millage rate on there. And we'll we'll should should it pass, you know, we're going to have to figure out, okay, even though law enforcement's budgets are protected, we still have raises to contend with. We still have like this year $1.2 million worth of insurance claims we have to figure out a way to to make whole. that just under $5 million can go a very long way in helping keep the sheriff's department and their needs or other needs in this county whole. So, it's essentially, you know, working with uh you know, our our neighbors, another jurisdiction to that they they they're paying for what they're using and the uninorporated taxpayer isn't having to cover their use and they have the money have the money to be able to do that. So, um that's my thought process. It's really just teeing it up now to look for the future and and get the board's thoughts on the matter and um see where where it goes from there. But I think it's an important piece of our budget as we work to restructure it that we work to rectify or either get a higher percentage of reimbursement uh potentially from the school district to the sheriff's department since we're only getting these deputies for roughly two weeks a year. I I agree 100%. I think we should be looking to the state um even this coming year to to get make the change of policy anyway. Uh so we want to because we wouldn't be attacked by spending too much money, but this is just another unfunded mandate. We saw I think 1012 million earlier today on a previous slide and now there's another five million that's not even listed which should be one of those unfunded mandates on our slides even separately that we need to address it. Um, now you just mentioned a thing about his insurance about 1.2 million. Um, and that's increased costs that we're going to be paying for the insurance for the deputy or for deputies of the sheriff's office.

The claims

the claims

they add some illness,

right? So the So go ahead and explain what we're doing and why.

Yes, sir. So our our budget uh for last year we had um budgeted approximately $13.2 million. Our proposed budget this year is is 13.9 million. Um, and we are working in the future, we've been uh working with our insurance provider to try to uh get get our rates up to to better cover that gap. Um, but so we we expect uh or or we project that this year. Um, so like I said, our uh budget on insurance is approximately $13.8 million uh in the proposed budget. Our claims we uh we expect I don't have the the the numbers in front of me. I like my phone at my seat, but uh but somewhere around 16 $16 million. Um so the thought behind the the additional 1.2 uh that came from a from a discussion uh with the county administrator and the sheriff earlier this summer um that initially based on the based on the growth um we were expecting maybe have about $4.5 million extra. Um so the thought was to take $750,000 out of that to get us from 2 and a.5% raises to 3% raises to meet the board. Uh and then take some bit of that uh not the full 4.5 million but approximately 1.2 2 million to help get our delta down on that difference between uh our projected claims and what we're able to to budget um without having to to jack up rates too much on our on our members for for health insurance.

Okay.

And and so that that just helps cover that delta. And like I said, we are in the process of um getting our our rates in in a in a better place. Um but right right now we have seen an increase in in claims.

So and the I think the board was and we're very equivocal. We wanted everybody to get the same percentage raise. As far as the rates go to deputies, everybody's 100% on board with that. However, last year we had an opportunity to actually you guys had an opportunity to work with us to [clears throat and cough] join our insurance rates.

And looking at it closely with our personnel, you could have saved about $1,000 an employee joining our our our group

as opposed to not never mind probably would have diversified even the numbers that you're going up escalation. Why haven't you joined us and would you could join us this year especially we're going to save the citizens the taxpayer rates?

Yes sir. So we we uh I remember we had that discussion. I believe it was I believe it was this time last year. Uh so our HR teams got together and so what our what our HR teams found uh is that the county rates are are significantly lower on employees than ours. So it would have been a a significant rate increase on our members to join the the county's insurance is what our H charging found. We're certainly happy to let him finish please.

No, but I think he said it that way.

So So the the county subsidizes more poor employee than than the sheriff's office does. So it keeps those those rates lower, but we're not able to to pay that much as our agency. So our rates have to be higher. So to join the the county's insurance, it would have been a rate increase on on our members. So that's the argument I heard. However, talking to my HR director, our costs for insurance are about $1,000 less employee than what you're paying. So whoever subsidized and whatever, our costs are less than what yours are. So, how are you subsidized compared to we I don't know how that really goes, but our director working with your group showed you guys you could save $1,000 employee working with us. You guys chose not to.

Yeah. And I'm certainly happy to to have our team re-engage with with your director. Absolutely.

I'm I'm looking for more than re-engagement. I'm talking about real numbers that's out there affecting taxpayers. Barbara Hson's right here. Barbara, you want to come up? Barbara Hitzman for the record.

Yes. If you Yeah, there couldn't say. Sorry.

Yeah, we had a we had a good meeting last uh last year discussing the insurance. Uh there's some differences in their plans too. Um what I mean by the thousands, their budgeted numbers for each person. They just budget more per employee. And you are right. I mean you don't have to like every constitutional officer can set their own rates. So they could set their own rates completely uh how they want to. But again, we absolutely would be willing to sit down again and kind of discuss it against

and you feel that would you be able to save them a lot of money by joining us compared to going the same way they are? It

I mean that definitely is possible right now. I mean if it was this year, yes, absolutely based on the claims, but again I think we're all on Florida blue, so the numbers are essentially all the same in terms of the discounts that we get. Uh it would just be a matter of how we would structure the plans

and Yeah.

And and diversifying generally is good for risk.

Yep.

Okay.

Uh Commissioner Starky then Commissioner Waitman.

No, I was going to bring up exactly what you brought up and um

yeah, it seems like if we have more people it the bigger the pool, the better off we all are.

So wait, thanks. Yeah. So I had we explored this same subject matter start with Eric Bright and I get it wrong please correct me. So the county the county's insurance bucket foot locker if you will there's claims the Pasco County uh uh puts in $9500 here. Correct me or you want to explain it and why the sheriff's can't because they don't have a reserve possibility. This is another budget structural conversation to try to prepare for this. So anyway,

yeah. So for each for each person the county budgets $11,500 currently for insurance, right? And then what happens is um that's the budgeted numbers that are sent out like to the constitutional officers, obviously everyone but the sheriff at this particular time. And then the actual rates are really determined based on the plans that they pick. For instance, if everyone chose the family plan, then that would be a little bit higher and the constitutional officers would have to adjust those. If everybody chose the single plan, then obviously it would be lower. But right now, we budget $11,500 per person to fund health insurance.

But the but the sheriff's department, we have that reserve fund for claims because the my understanding is because the sheriff's department can't legally have a reserve fund,

they can't budget how we do. And so moving forward for kind of these unbudget you never know what's going to happen cancer or shooting whatever goes on the course of the year which came to roughly 1.2 too if there is a way to work with as you know with MSTUs and the way that we're kind of restructuring our our budget to find a way to create an account or fund at a lesser amount since there's lesser people in the sheriff's department whatever that number may be for their head to start building kind of their foot locker fund for potential insurance increase you know if there's an insurance increase because when with 1.2 two went to Eric and said, "Hey, Eric, how much does a county have in its fund, right, with additional claims if that were to happen on our side uh of of the business based on what the rules that are there, that fund, that insurance fund can't be used for the sheriff's side because they're kind of classified differently. And so, we have a a structure in place in in our budget to help offset those costs. But due to the way that based on how the sheriff's budget is structured, they don't have the ability. And we know in the nature of law enforcement things are going to happen, right? And I think it would be critical that that whatever whatever rules are that we figure out a way to try to find a model like we have at our county for the sheriff's department. That way we can have a more uh preparedness when it comes to budget time. that way, you know, in some years there might not be anything. So that fund will compound, but then if they get hit with two million bucks three years from now, there might be a build up there and then it doesn't wonky up our budget process the way that it is. Um those are kind of outside of the sheriff's budget control, but if we structure the monies in a different way, it might be able to to help. So that was my thought process through insurance with the sheriff's department. Mr. Stark,

um, a number of years ago, we upped the amount of employee contribution. Um, so what what is at the county, because Chase was alluding to something I didn't quite follow. What does the county pay per an employee pay for health insurance?

Uh, it depends on the plan. So, we have five different healthcare plans. um our it ranges probably from about 650 up to about 1,700 per month per person depending on the plan. So some levels are offset more than others. We happen to offset the cost of the employee plus children more than like an employee plus spouse. So there's really no unfortunately right one answer like how much because it really depends on the plans because we we you know it's the way we cost shift for those uh particular expenditures. So but it's about $650 a month. That's and what does this um sheriff do Chase?

Okay. Okay. because he said that they do it differently and I I didn't understand if the sheriff covers more of the cost or the the employee covers more of the cost percentage- wise than that the county.

Right. And I know we have five healthcare plans. I think they have two, but I would have to check on that. I'm not 100% sure. And

and this is why the conversation of with the with the mill rate that's on the ballot, the amendment [snorts] three, we don't know what the future is. why it's important that if other jurisdictions need to need to cover their cost and we don't necessarily have to carry it. Obviously, there's probably a negotiation that goes on, but if it freed up that almost $5 million, it allows us much more uh flexibility in being being able to pay for these types of situations.

Yes. And I apologize. I'm just uh trying to find a document in my email.

It it doesn't have to be um to the penny. I mean you you mentioned a statement and I didn't follow it that you said do you guys pay more than we do or less than we do?

Yes. So we have uh so we receive approximately $235,000 per month uh in employee contributions for a total of our employees of $2,820,000. Uh and then the sheriff's office pays uh so um based on based on claims last year we paid 12,974,690 um out of that 13,279. So our our employer our employee contributions uh made up about $235,000 a month.

So okay, I may not be answering my question right.

Might be the answer.

Huh? The answer wasn't my question.

You didn't answer my question. I think um So, we used to pay less here. I don't know if y'all remember you, you weren't here, but we increased our percentage here. I think before Seth and Ron, does anyone not remember that? Who's been here a long time, right? We increased the our our contribution towards our health care benefits. I'm just wondering if you guys are somewhat at the same percentage as us because that would be important if we did a merger if you know if they're paying more or will they expect their deputies to pay to step up you their employees or are they paying less and it's I it's all in the negotiation I guess you don't have to answer [clears throat] specifically

the only thing I I can say in relation to that because I think I know what you're asking is when we um had the jail come on board 101 and 22. There were very few people uh that had to pay more. Uh there was only one tier on one plan that was a little bit more for the jail folks. Everything else was a savings of money. So if what Chase is saying is that it's pretty close

savings.

It would be a savings for some of the employees, right? It would, you know, and you know, for the most part, again, it depends on the tiers because we have five plans. Um but I do say this, it was pretty close. I I don't think that anything was a major impact. And where there may have been a major impact, they were able to switch over the plans because we have five different plans that cover.

Yeah, we we have three different plans.

Well, what what does seem as a benefit to the employees of the sheriff's office and the sheriff is is that we have that pool.

We have the reserve. Yeah.

The reserve fund.

Well, and I and I think when you look at there's actually one of the sheriff's employees, I think it's a joint venture. They could join e either insurance plan. They picked our insurance plan. So, tells me we're competitive.

Yeah. And we we also do uh partner with the school district when it comes to using the the My Health on-site clinics um which is which is a cost savings for us as well. And I know that's something we had previously discussed with with Barbara. So, we we'll we'll make sure to to have that discussion again.

Well, let's let's have a discussion about as far as the reserves go as far as Commissioner Wayne brought up. I mean, Barbara, if we're going to go through and set up a joint venture and and join forces as far as insurance goes, this is there any reason we can we can can we pick the number we want to put in reserves for excess claims?

So, uh, we have we buy an excess policy. In fact, ironically, that was on the budget this the board agenda item this morning. Um, and then yes, we set a claim number, but because we're self-insured, the state of Florida makes us have a certain amount in reserve. So, we have to keep 60 days of claims at least in reserve. Uh, if the sheriff were part of that, obviously that would expand that number. But, yes, we could absolutely get together and and, you know, make that feasible for all parties.

All right. So, so I'm going to say if we're going to move forward this 1.2 that Amy's had to go work on other things to make this come in to go, which I was not aware of until this was coming forward just in the past couple of days. I want to make sure that if we do join, if we do have savings, that part of those savings goes right into the excess reserve fund that'll be there.

And if that goes that way, I'm I'm comfortable keeping it just the way it is.

Yes, sir. And I'm texting our our HR director now, so I will have her re re-engage with uh with Barbara Postace.

Thank you. All right. All right. I don't know if my thing woke up or not or if this was my friend Gina, but we got to the next slide. All right. So, our five-year capital improvement plan. So, there's really no change from this slide from the first public hearing. So, I'm going to go ahead and we'll keep it moving. Oh, no. I went too far. You did it. Ah,

putting it down. It's you here on out. All right. So, our transfer. This is high. Sorry, guys. Oh, lunch was hard. All right. So, here's that transportation line. Here's that breakout. So, I did promise you all that you would have details of the 5-year TCIP as it shifted from the July workshop. And you will have that as part of your packets for this evening at the final public hearing. All right. So, then our tenative um millage rates from TRIM. This was what the board adopted in July and then again at the first public hearing. But the next slide is the recommended final millage rates that we will come back with a final budget for you this evening based off these millage rates which the big change here is taking the general operating millage down to the rolled back rate of 7.2488. All right. So now let's recap um consensus. So foot locker directive. We're going to maintain course and speed as recommended by the county administrator and we are going to come back with a reduced general operating millage of the rolled back rate. Does that sound accurate?

Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Accurate Amy.

Accurate.

Accurate Amy. Yeah.

Here [laughter] for it. All right. So later today at 5:15 p.m. in this room I will be back and together we're going to adopt a budget

together. together. [laughter]

Together, we're going to do it.

Smiling all the way.

I've been smiling all day. I'll see you all later. Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

And I'll go to public hearings. Item P50. Do we have proof?

One moment. We do have proof. Item P50 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on July 22nd, [clears throat] 2026. The item was continued from the September 9th, 2026 BCC meeting to today.

Good afternoon. Good [clears throat] afternoon, Mr. Chairman. Victoria Spito's planning development economic growth department. Item P50 is PD 260949. This is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Pasco County Land Development Code amending section uh 403.5 construction plans section 403.7 mass grading and other sections as necessary for internal consistency providing for applicability repealer providing for severability inclusion to land development code and an effective date. This is the first hearing and so therefore there is the request to accept public comment and Patrick Dutter director of development review services is able to make a presentation if so desired. All right.

[clears throat]

All right. Uh, good afternoon. Patrick Dutter, Planning, Development, Economic Growth. Uh, long time coming. This probably won't be as exciting as talking about the budget. U, but I'll, uh, try and make it exciting.

Um, so, there have been concerns raised by almost all of you about a lot of the construction traffic we've been seeing here in Pasco County. Uh, specifically on some of our local roads. Um Jack Mariano specifically in your district. You're seeing a lot of redevelopment or infill development where a lot of these trucks are using local roads to get to their project where they could be using collector and arterial roadways. Um we had nothing in our land development code that would prevent that. So uh what we're here today is to talk about adding some language to prevent that. Uh so first up um use this not this. So, if you have direct access to a collector or arterial road as a new project, you must use that road as access. You can't use the local road because it's a little bit more convenient for you. You need to use the collector or arterial road first. Uh only if there is no other option can you use a local road. Then, assuming you have to use a local road to get to your project, uh assuming there is more than one route, you have to avoid the route that has a school zone on it. Right? We often see construction truck construction traffic and school traffic. They kind of mix because they start and they start at the same time. Um so again, if they have to use a local road and there's more than one option, they have to use the one that does not go past a school zone. Uh and assuming there isn't an option and it does have to go through a school zone, we are requiring the developer to work with the school principal or the school board to stage uh either e either or to make sure that there are no issues in terms of getting trucks to the site. We're also adding language to prevent any staging or uh stacking in the rightway. We've seen projects where they stack up uh early in the morning trying to get on onto the site and they'll stack up back in the rightway and they'll prevent cars from from driving through the area. So the we have language to prevent them from stacking up before a project starts in the morning. Um also keeping the uh local roads debris free. Uh so whether that's a uh asphalt road or asphalt road, we'll ask them to uh sweep daily. And if it happens to be like a lime rock road, we're going to ask them to water daily just to make sure those roads are in good condition. if they have to use that local road, the existing residents aren't seeing, you know, gravel and rocks uh fly up if they're driving along it. Uh and then last, repair when done. Um so there's really nothing strong in our code right now where developers will might use our local roads where they have to come back and fix them. Uh we do have a substandard road review, but that's looking at the condition of the project before construction starts. During that construction period, we don't really capture all the truck traffic. So, um asking them to bring the road back up to repair from before they started is what we're going to ask them to do. So, they're going to be uh videotaping the roadway before they start construction so we can see, you

know, what the road looks like. And then, uh public works also has a method of doing a review of the road. It's called a uh uh

pavement

pavement condition index. Thank you. Where they can do an assessment of a stretch of road to see what its condition is. So, we're going to ask that a developer does that upfront before they start construction and then after construction. And if there's a difference between the two, we're of course going to ask them to repair what um what issues we found.

Quick question on that. Yes. And that's a great condition to put in. That's much better than just taking a video. So, great.

I want to make sure that we are doing the testing, not the developer doing the testing.

We are doing the testing. Uh public works will be going out and doing the review.

Perfect.

Thank you. Uh and then if non-compliance is observed, right, uh we're going to ask for signage to be put up at uh locations that uh they're not the trucks aren't supposed to be using, um we have the option to if they still continue to not um pay attention to that, stop work orders. And then um and ask them to employ offduty police officers. Right? If these trucks keep on using these routes that they're not supposed to, we can ask the developer to employ offduty police officers to make sure those trucks are using the right

ask or require.

Yes. Right. require or ask is a different

require require if if it again right

yes it's [laughter]

yeah I don't know

any anything on our code should be mandatory

yes okay

so again it's it's if we see non-compliance and it's a a continual thing and they're not addressing it we will make them hire offduty police officers so this is an example of what a plan may look like uh and it's not lost on me when I was reviewing this today that uh kitten trail is in the example and I don't know if that's the best one to use as an example. Um but this is not a real project. So just let me put that to bed. This is just an example that I created. Again, this project does not exist. This is just showing you what a plan could look like. So you see Hudson down there on the south and you see Kitten Trail on the north. The only way to get to this imaginary development is through one of two local roads. The local road going down to the south, the Hudson, and the local road going up north to Kitten Trail. You'll notice that the one to the south there is a school zone that location. So that means even though they might want to use Hudson Avenue, we're going to make them use Kitten Trail. So that's why you have the green arrow arrow going north. Uh and then of course once development is done, we're going to ask them to repair the road that they use to the north. So that's just an example of what these one of these plants might look like. And then I'm here for any questions if anyone has any questions.

Any questions? Wait.

Thank you, chair. No, very grateful y'all taken our good neighbor policies seriously. It's [snorts] particularly with these infield projects. Another example, uh we've had complaints particularly related to the infill projects if say the infill projects in a denser more dense neighborhood than like what you showed here

and as they're clearing the site like this past year was hot and it was dry. We've had calls from adjoining properties neighbors. All the dirt from the site is windy blowing into these folks swimming pools and increasing. You know, those folks are there first and the project is its neighbor. And you know, large amounts of of of dirt [snorts] being blown in the wind off the sides, landing in folks pools, clogging up their pool pumps, blew a pool pump on another person. they're having to pay to have I mean it's impacting them in the code should situations like that happen. Do we have any ability to have the neighboring site become a good neighbor to offset the cost of the of the impacts on the neighboring properties that were there first? Pools, for example, the dust on the screens and everything else. if there's actual damage due to dust flying off the site or what what have you to be able to make that site that's under construction be good neighbor to the existing neighbors that were there first.

Yeah. the kind of related thing we have to it

instead of it becoming a civil matter because it's not those folks fault like for example these folks have lived live lived next to this site I'm referencing for 30 years

and it was vacant until you know something came along and the project came and it just caused these folks a whole big old headache. Um, David, is that something that we

It's just an example of another addition to good neighbor policies that we're working on here.

Understood. You want to comment to that?

I I missed the question. I'm sorry. I was reading the orders. What was the question?

So, a real life scenario that happened neighbors to a a project site uh site was vacant. Neighbors lived next to it for 30 years. Project came in. Project cleared. Dirt's being brought in. Storm water's being dug. The dirt on the site, the wind was moving, blowing all over the place. The dirt was landing in the all three neighbors had swimming pools and the dirt was clogging the pools. One of the pool pump blow up. They're having to have the pool service come in more frequently, costing them more money at no fault of their own. Should situations like that arise and these folks went to the contractor said, "Hey, your project's impacting us. You help, you know, with my pool pump. I have to get a new pool pump now because it was it kept getting clogged so frequently or what have you." Instead of it becoming necessarily a civil matter, becoming people disgruntled with the situation within the code, can that project be responsible for helping those neighboring homeowners should those homeowners incur damage because of what's going on on their other side of the fence because it's going to it's this you're going to see these situations happen especially as infill projects. I mean, I'm a little bit reluctant to have our code sort of arbitrating a private dispute, but I guess I guess

it's not a private dispute. It's just

I guess my my underlying question for Patrick though is how does our code even allow the dirt to escape the site to begin with? I mean, because I clearly our code could regulate how they

so they how they hold the dirt on the site and so the dirt shouldn't be leaving the site and and going to those pools. Well, there so there's silt fence and there's seating. We require seating or solding the property after a certain amount of time, but there is still that period of time where there is a lot of dirt on the site and we have windy days uh and you know you can't c catch everything with with those types of things. So I think inevitably there's going to be dirt that does drift off

in these

and I don't know how you prevent that

in these particular home literally the fence separate it was literally a fence separating the site.

So I I think the our code could say that they're responsible for any damage that occurs from the offsite discharge. The problem is is that I don't know that we can be the ones that adjudicate the dollar amount of those damages. In other words,

not looking for that, but because of a whether it's a city or a county that reszones a property and it goes under construction, right? And that that those that contractor has to follow our rules and folks who've lived neigh neighbors to the project site that are immediately impacted at no fault of their own and it's costing them money. That's another piece of this good neighbor policy. If a if a project comes in and it [clears throat] not just disrupts inconveniently but causes physical damage to immediate adjacent neighbor code can say that they're responsible for any damages that occur from the discharge or the the dirt flying off the site

and and I use the specific examples of pools and pool pumps and the filters because that's what happened. Windy days. We've had many windy days. the dirt was just blowing off and landing in the three immediate neighbors pools and it was

I mean I guess I would I would even add to that even any type of fugitive emission whether it's particulates such as dust or or even fires which you know burning that's that's another that's another topic but I think the the question really is is what enforcement mechanism do we have because if your rules don't have teeth and I can't enforce that that that'll encourage the developer to put the necessary controls in place to keep the pool filters and those things coming in in into play in the first place.

The reason I'm a little hesitant to get too involved in the private part of it is if that pool owner submits a million dollar claim to the developer for the pool because it was a goldplated pool or whatever. I mean, I don't know that we want to be involved in arbitrating the dollar amount of these claims.

I mean, we can say the developer responsible, but I don't know that we can be the ones that adjudicate how much they need to pay.

I'm not saying to do that. I'm just I'm [clears throat] my my thought process is to figure out a way to make as new projects come online that they are good neighbors. and because of the government's decision and the government's policies, but then somebody's negatively impacted and it's not their fault and then all a sudden they have however much, you know, the bill they have to fix when it was fined before. I mean,

there's no question in my mind that from a private standpoint that developer is liable to them for damages.

Yeah. But that's you know how that's going to go. It'll be litigated and it's going to neighbors don't get frustrated and they're going to be mad. It's not their fault.

Let me hear from Starky. Wait.

I don't want to go down that route. Um I I we got lots of complaints when they were clearing um new poor corners about the smoke, the fire. Um apparently we can't regulate that.

Well, I'm not sure that we can't regulate it. We currently do not. defer to the division of forestry who issues the

Well, I'd rather not burn if we didn't have to personally, but I think you're opening up a real can of worms if you go into that more. I think there there probably is civil uh remedies, but um frankly you move into a piece of property, a neighborhood, and there's vacant land next to you, you can unless it's Elamp or park, it's going to get developed. So, I think that's part of the risk you take when you pick where you live. Um but I don't think we should step into a civil civil issues between I think we need to make sure we require seating and water.

And Patrick, do we have a clear standard in our code that says the dirt is not supposed to leave the site?

Maybe. I I can't think of it off the top of my head right now, though.

Commissioner, that's actually the more important thing because if we set a standard in our code that the juror is not supposed to leave the site, it actually makes it easier for them to litigate their private claim. Yeah, whatever the that's kind of that's what I'm saying. What whatever stringent rules we have, should a situation like that arise, our rules are in place in favor of the neighbor

to be able to recoup their damages.

If if that's your goal, I think the better thing would be to have a clear standard in our code that says the dirt is not supposed to leave the site [snorts]

because then when the neighbor brings their private claim, they can say you violated the county standard,

right? But I think that's is that not there now?

That's why I asked is there a standard now that has that?

I don't know off the top of my head. I'd have to double check. If it's not, we could easily add language

that that's where I'm trying to get.

So So the whole clear development would have to be seated even if they're building a house on

if it's if it's if uh activity hasn't um continued after a certain amount of time, they're required to seed it in the early development code.

I mean, I don't think you're you're saying the how. You're just you're specifying the outcome. No, nothing leaves your sight and then you you you promagate rules around that.

I mean, that doesn't even work with hurricanes and my neighbor's porch blowing off and hitting my neighbor's roof and that's an act of God and my ne [clears throat] the one whose porch blew off isn't responsible for my neighbor's roof.

A development side is not an act of God. That's a man-made issue. That's that's a government approving something and moving forward.

Commissioner Jerger,

very different. So, are they required to put, you know, any of that [clears throat] black mesh around the site,

the silence?

Yep.

But I mean, it's in our

Yeah. And it it's primarily to control storm water, but it it will contain other particulate, but once a good wind goes, it's really not going to stop too much dirt.

So, was that in place, Commissioner Baitman, when it was, and still the same?

Yeah, that's not going to help wind, though.

Yeah, that won't be hot. Right. [clears throat]

I mean, I like trying to control the uncom. I think it's important if we can put something in there. I mean, one of the developments we're talking about was over at the links and the back of the yard, they knew something was going to come, but one of the things that come up with this, they were supposed to use an alternative access. They use a regular access. So, what they did was they built a road coming in first where if they had the access road built, it would actually minimize some of that effect. And I'll touch on that later on. But I think somehow we've got to put that language in there because I've got I we had these people they took one of their big container trucks and parked it right in front of their backyard, right in front of the viewshed in a spot where it was like so disgusting [clears throat] why they would do that. So they took away their view, any type of view, even if they saw construction better than a big truck parked right in their viewshed and there's nothing we could do about it. They had all sorts of dust going on. They dug up to the edge of like 5t of the surface. Bam. Right down into a pond. Big issue. And all the dust that would blow. These people couldn't use their pool. Not only is it in the pool, it got on the house. The screen destroyed quality of life. So, I think if we do find a way, let's go look at that because they could have watered the site better. They didn't. They just kept on going and figured they had all the control. Well, that's why I make the point of of additional enforcement and and penalties that that you can actually

deter. So, so one of the things you could do without having to deal with the civil part is if you are found not to control this in a minute we're not happy with. So, why we put that in in the language, but your permit's going to be put on hold until it's taken care of. That would get somebody's attention. That would get some better protection. Then again, those those sill fences that are out there, that is a storm water thing. It's not a thing for any wind whatsoever. Commissioner Oakley.

Yeah. I think if you take care of that in your code, like if you've got dust and a lot of sand, you know, there's going to be dust and sand. If that's already in our code to protect that from leaving the site, then they water down the the new ground that they're going to be working on. So, it don't have that dust and all. It protects that neighbor the best you can. So other than that, I wouldn't I wouldn't do anything that cause us to get in litigation with a neighbor or private property.

And around those sites and and sometimes techniques matter as well. Like literally this this one was coming through. They put this giant dirt pile that was probably 30 ft high that

no film's going to block that. Any type of wind's going to go that would deter that type of behavior from going forward. They're going to think about how they do it differently. So that's if we can get that type of thing in there, I think it'd be great. Okay.

Any more for this?

I do have a unrelated

issue. David um

chair, if I if I may, David Allen, um assistant county administrator development services. So, um I'm hearing a couple of things. One is um we'll verify with code whether or not we have the ability to to regulate fugitive dust leaving the site.

It's in state statute. [clears throat]

And and then kind of layered on top of that, um then also as as Mr. Carbala mentioned um also looking at kind of burn processes too as well because I know that we've had similar types of complaints from neighboring project sites when they institute

um the burns and so how do we uh minimize you know fugitive ash I guess from leaving the site too as well and so we're looking into that as well.

Okay. Um, I'll just let me just touch on what you just mentioned might be interesting. So, if you're going to have, let's say, the construction go through and maybe we're limited to what we can go do.

Can we put in the code if, let's say, a buffer is going to be in place before the heavy construction goes, etc. They put that buffer in place. If there's a fence that's supposed on the board of the property, we make them go put that fence in, too. At least we can minimize some of the effects. Can that be put in the code? I I I don't see any reason why not. Um it's something we can absolutely explore. I I don't see any issue with it. Just

that might that might help a lot.

Sure.

Okay. Uh on this, I want to bring up one thing to you. Um and again, I I want to say I'm thrilled you guys are bringing this forward. It's well thought out, well set up, and much needed for especially these infill projects that are coming in. Sure.

Uh that are coming forward. Um, I want to make sure that like in at the the estates when we had a decision that was made by a board that said you were going to build a construction road, it was going to go a certain way on certain road and internally staff change that.

I want to make sure that staff cannot change any of those things that are done in a public hearing where the people already spoke, decision was made that staff cannot go back in and change it as the code was modified a few years ago. unbeknownst to me and a few others.

Sure. Yeah. That scenario cannot will not occur like it did back then.

Is it in this code the way it's set up right now.

So there there was a lot that changed procedurally in those years that essentially now the way the process works it it wouldn't have it wouldn't have hurt the same way. So what happened at Beacon Park

won't happen again.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Again, I greatly appreciate the attention to this, David.

Um, Patrick, the school zone protections, um, I think it's a good idea, but I guess my question for you is why do you not have it applying on the collectors and arterials? Because some of our school zones, the school zone is actually on the collector. Um, we were honestly focused on the local roads in terms of protecting those over the collector and arterial roads. But I guess we could assuming the board have the same issue where the construction traffic is mixing with the traffic on a collector

and it could impede the traveling public. [laughter]

Okay.

I would think that you'd want to protect it even if it was on a collector as well.

Is that something you can look at?

Absolutely.

I'm I'm going to give a thought. I don't know if you can do that. I I think you need to think about it just because if it's on a collector and it's a school there, you may be having to use alternate residential roads and so you've got to balance that out. Um

a collector is designed for these heavy trucks. So what you want to keep if the school zones there's three lanes of traffic that

well all but all it requires if is that if the they work with the school school try to avoid drop off and pick times. So I'm not sure that that's the end of the world even on a collector.

You can put them to avoid that, but again to expect them to go differently.

I'm not saying they should avoid the collector road. I'm saying

they just avoid travel during

dismissal drop doing their construction the same time,

okay,

that the school's doing their drop off and pick off

even if it's on a collector.

Okay.

All right. Any other questions? Um, I just have a comment.

Yes, Mr. St.

I just want to say I listen to the planning commission

and I'm glad you're bringing forth staff recommendations because they chewed that thing up and I I mentioned this to the administrator and um the I love our planning commission and they're all volunteers but they're not the elected officials. That's right.

And I want to be sure that what we're directing comes back to us and if they have a different recommendation, we'll put it alongside ours if it's substantially different because they were really messing with this and this is pretty clear that we want this. So, just heads up.

Okay. Yeah. Uh very much appreciate the planning commission and what they do. Um there were two other are the items that were a companion to this. Yes. That we tabled. Um because I think

well what does tabled mean?

Uh this was priority. We wanted to move the planning commission was fine with this one. Uh wooden bridge prohibition and street trees was something um that they weren't comfortable with. So we just knew we needed to get this approved. So we moved this forward while we reassess uh what

sometimes when you table something it's a way to make die.

Sure.

So under no circumstances do I want street trees to die.

Understood. I mean, I thought we fixed that 20 years ago. So,

yeah, the main point the planning commission had, and I don't necessarily disagree, is what our code does require, it requires a tree in the front of a home, not necessarily in the right of way. So, the planning commission said, well, if it's in the front of the home, it's still technically it could cover the street. Yeah.

Providing that canopy. So, we have that.

The intent is to get a canopy and how we arrive there.

Sure.

Just figured that out,

right?

Yeah.

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Thank you. No action required here. Item P-51. We approve.

We do. Item P I'm sorry. Item P-51 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on July 22nd, 2026.

Public comment.

Oh, do we vote on Oh, we do vote on that.

There's no action. There's no

action. So, you do need to take public comment.

Is there any public comment for item P50?

No. The audience coming? Anyone online? Everyone's online public comment on C-51. We got approved.

Yes, Jerry.

Are we ready?

I'm ready. Okay. Sorry about that.

Ready to approve. Sorry.

Okay. Okay.

I skipped planning development economic growth department. Once again, item P51 is PD260025. This is an ordinance by the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners amending the Paso County Land Development Code. Section 204.3 General functions, powers, and duties. Section 304, public notice requirements. Section 402.3 conditional uses. Section 407.2 zoning variances. Section 407.4 alternative relief. Section 407.5 alternative standards. Section 503 AC agricultural district. Section 504 AC1 Agricultural District. Section 505 AR Agricultural Residential District. Section 506 AR1, Agricultural Residential District. Section 507, AR5, Agricultural Residential District. Section 508, AR5, MH, Agricultural Mobile Home District. Section 509, ER, Estate Residential District. Section 510, ER2, Estate Residential District, section 511, RMH, Mobile Home District. Section 512, R1MH, Single Family Mobile Home District. Section 513, R2MH, Rural Density Mobile Home District. section 514 R1 rural density residential district section 515 R2 low density residential district section 516 R3 medium density residential district section 517 R4 high density residential district section 518 MF1 multiple family medium density district section 519 MF2 multiple family highdensity district section 520 MF3 multiple family highdensity district creating section 408 reasonable accommodations section 530.26 26 standards for community residential homes large. Amending appendix A definitions and other sections as necessary for internal consistency providing for applicability repealer providing for severability inclusion into the land development code and an effective date. This comes with a recommendation to accept the public comment and adopt the proposed land development code amendments and ordinance by roll call vote. Uh there is a presentation of so desired and uh if not desired uh there's an update post planning commission that needs to be provided to the board. Let me just ask a quick question before we get into it. [clears throat] That takes about three minutes to go through that whole thing and that happens now and then. Is there anything legally we can do to change it? Kind of like we used to we used to have to read at the budget hearings. We'd have to read the whole resolution and about seven or eight years ago they changed it where title only. Is there something that can be done to

spare that?

I'm all for it.

Or summarize summarize it.

Um I'm not sure that you can avoid reading the title difference. Although I'm not sure the title needs to be this long. Um there probably was a way to shorten this title. I don't want to get into how they could have done it, but

let's if you would have the conversation. Let's see if there's find a way to make it easy for this guy.

Okay, no problem.

Mair chair. Hey [laughter] Terry, look.

Now that the robot language is done speaking code out there, but

Oh boy.

It's not It's not easy either.

No, [laughter] no, not at all.

You got to stay in line. Anyway,

so my my understanding with 51 is this this is to become compliant with changes that the state made. And within this provision, it deals with um halfway houses, whatever you want to call them, that are in residential neighborhoods.

Correct.

Uh community residential homes. Yeah.

Res [snorts] you you know the the product like in Quo Hollow for example, there's a a home for troubled youth. It's in a residential neighborhood.

Yes. And the state was talking about increasing the level and the problems are still compounding and it's impacting all you know this is

this is a problem house in a residential neighborhood. This ordinance has something to do with that. Correct.

Yes. It it deals with um those types of uses.

It makes it compounds already tough situation that we can't control. Makes it worse.

Yes or no? has the ability to because they can have more heads and beds.

I don't know that it doesn't necessarily require you to approve

those types of uses. What it requires you to do is

you know the case I'm talking about.

I'm aware of it, but it I don't know that it required you to approve those uses. What it requires you to do is follow Fair Housing Act and ADA criteria when you're reviewing them. But there's nothing in here that requires you to approve that a a conditional use or so. So so I don't think this is saying that you have to prove something, but you have it's saying that if you're going to deny it, you got to base it on the criteria that are in the code which follow the Fair Housing Act and the Americans with Disability Act and state law.

So if we approve this, then we're really handcuffed. I'm not sure that you're any more handcuffed than you are under the FHA and ADA. Now,

in other words, you were already handcuffed by the FHA and ADA,

but we approve this. It makes the rules more stringent.

It I think in my opinion, it makes the rules [snorts] more compliant with the FHA and ADA and the new state law. I'm not sure it's any more stringent than what because that project that you're talking about it arose because we got a complaint under the FHA and ADA that we were violating the FHA and ADA. That's how it got approved in the first place. So, and because the the argument was our code didn't comply with the FHA. So, I think what staff is trying to do is bring forward to you a code that does comply with the FHA and the ADA so that if we deny a project like that, we can easily more easily defend it.

Are you sure?

Yes. Because we weren't we weren't able to defend that one when we got approved because our code did not comply with the FHA or the ADA.

I like your passion. I'm just making sure that you [laughter]

I'd rather I would rather defend a denial under this new code than under our current code if that's your question.

Yes, that's Yeah. Okay.

All right. Thank you.

Do we need a presentation?

No,

Mr. Chairman.

Question.

There's one thing to note that the since the uh first hearing of this item uh the text was updated. There was a divergence at the planning commission from the original recommendation where they wanted to have uh certain uh reasonable accommodations uh heard through public hearing but further legal research identified that um that that should not happen in that way to be consistent with case law and with uh federal requirements etc. Uh so it would the text that's presented to you today has reverted back to the original recommendation from the department to make these not go to public hearings.

Okay. And this a recommendation for approval now.

Correct. Yes sir.

Very good. Is anyone here from the public to speak to this item? Is there anyone online?

No one's online

to the board.

Move approval.

Second.

All in favor say I.

I. Any opposed by roll call.

Roll call.

District one. Commissioner Oakley.

Hi.

District two. Commissioner Weightman.

Hi.

District three. Commissioner Starky.

I.

District four. Commissioner Joerger.

Hi.

District five. Chairman Mariano.

I. Motion passes 50. Item P-52.

Item P-52 was published.

Sorry. The item was advertised on the county's website [clears throat] via the column application on September 10th, 2026.

Born. Mr. Chairman, uh, board of county commissioners. U Adam Thomas, tourism director uh for the destination marketing organization for Pasco County. Uh before you today is a little a shorter title uh to read. Um but it is DMO26-0130 is a public hearing to amend the ordinance of uh number 9010 codify in chapter 102 of the Pasco County code of ordinance by amending section 102 to 190 to amend and update the tourist development plan for Pasco County. Uh just a little bit of background um on the tourist development tax and the TDC for for Pasco County. Um it was established back in 1990 uh by the board of county commissioners of Pasco County to authorize by section 1250104 uh of the Florida state statute to establish Pasco County's first uh tourist development council and adopt the first tourist development plan by ordinance 90 number 9010. Uh since then um the adoption the destination management organization has been actively executing strategic plans while also identifying new opportunities to strengthening the promotional aspect and the destination development. Uh and since then the the destination tourism plan has been updated several times. Back on April 23rd, 2024, uh the Pasco County Board of County Commissioners approved the amendment of chapter 102 article 1021 190 of the Pasco County Code of Ordinance to adopt the destination management organization 5-year strategic plan as the 2024 2028 strategic tourist development plan. And the four strategic goals uh set before you today are tourism industry trends, research and stakeholder insights. That gives us four strategic goals of deploying destination uh marketing, sales and service programs, advancing impactful destination development and engaging influential DMO advocacy and stakeholder rel relations and then lastly obtain optimal DMO resources and performance management results. So, we are uh recommending two new categories to be added into the strategic tourist development plan um for elig eligible expenses. And the first one is the one-time cultural heritage sponsorships. And this is going to be capped at 250,000 to support films, documentary, or episodes series rooted in Florida's cultural heritage and directly tied to Pasco County's history, natural assets, or identity as a destination. Uh this onetime expenditure is designed to generate measurable tourism promotion benefits and long-term visibility for Florida sports coast. And the second one kind of supports the first one and that is operational support for museums. This funding for publiclyowned and and nonprofit museums open to the public consistent with state statute to include staffing, maintenance, exhibit development, pro promotional activities that directly advance tourism promotion within the destination of Paso County. So we are requesting a recommen recommendated recommendation board action to wave

introduction and accept public comment on the amendment to chapter 102 article 4 section 10290 adopt the ordinance amended to chapter 102 article 4 section 1021 190 of the Pasco County Code of Ordinances by roll call vote and authorize the execution of the ordinance by the chairman and direct board records to transmit the ordinance to the department of state by electron IC mail within 10 days after the adoption of the ordinance.

Okay. Thank you. Any questions for Adam?

No. Okay.

Gave us a cool cup. So,

got off easy.

We got to bring them over. Uh, is anyone here from the public here to speak to item P-52? Is there anyone online?

No one's online.

Move approval.

Second.

Roll call vote.

District one, Commissioner Oakley.

I.

District two, Commissioner Waitman. Hi. District three, Commissioner Starky.

Hi.

District four, Commissioner Joerger.

Hi.

District five, Chairman Mariano.

I motion passes 5.

Any sir?

Now proceed with the public hearings. Clerk will conduct the swearing in.

All right. If you are here to speak on the remaining items, please stand and raise your right hand.

All right. Okay. All right. Very good. Do you swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give is the truth? So help you God. Thank you.

Okay.

Those who are in person is pre-registered to speak to any of the items in first is item P-53.

Item P53 was published in the TEA Times on May 27th, 2026 and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. The item was continued from the August 11th, 2026 BCC meeting to the August 25th, 2026 BCC meeting where it was continued to today.

Item P5 is playing tomorrow economic growth. Again, PD26 7901 is item P53. Uh it's a zoning amendment in the name of Mitrous Family Extended LLC Mitrus project. It's a change in zoning from AR uh agricultural residential district to highdensity residential district. This is being recommended to continue the item to the October 20, 2026 meeting at 1:30 p.m. or soon thereafter say may be heard in Neworichi.

Okay. A motion to continue.

Move.

Second.

All in favor say I.

I. I.

Item P-54.

Item P54 was advertised on the county's website via the column [clears throat] application on September 3rd, 2026 and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. Item P-54 is PD26CU11. This is a conditional use request in the name of Guardian Angel Senior Living, the Jono Plaza LLC. It's a conditional use to develop a residential treatment and care facility in an AR1 agricultural residential district and R1MH single family mobile home district in South Central Pasco County on the west side of Wilson Road 2525 ft north of the intersection of State Road 54 and Wilson Road containing approximately 8.97 acres. This comes to you with a recommendation to approve the conditional use request with conditions. Uh and there is a presentation if so desired.

Like a presentation.

Okay.

Presentation.

No.

Oh. Uh one note, one thing to note about this. There was an opposition email sent to the commissioner, uh Commissioner Jerger, which staff, uh is noting on the record, and it's been sent to the clerk's office as an exparte.

Okay. Is the applicant here? Yep.

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, commissioners. My name is Tumai. I'm here representing the applicant. Um, we did receive the um concerns noted by the residents. I'd like to address those concerns um based on the land development code. Concern number one regarding the scale of development. The residential treatment and care facility are expressly permitted as a conditional use within the both within both the AR and AR AR and R1 MH zoning districts um subject to the board's approval. The applicant is proposing to accommodate a maximum of 125 beds developed in two phases. Phase one would be would be 45 beds and phase two would be 80 beds which is considered very small in scale. Additionally, the subject property was approved by the BCC with a special exception 1473 in 1981 for a child care center and then special exception 2721 in 1984 for a convolescent home. Historically, the site safely operated as a central Pasco Girls Academy under the Florida Department of Juvenile Justice. Transitioning this site from the state-run juvenile residential program is a to a passive senior care community represents a significant reduction in the oper in the operational intensity for uh Wilson Road. Number two, concern concern regarding the traffic on the dead-end road. Residential um treatment facilities are typically gener typically generate lower peak traffic um than other institutional um commercial uses. The applicant submitted a timing and phasing application as well as a substandard road application prior to the submission of the conditional use application. staff formally issued an exemption because the project volume is safely less than 50 peak treat um 50 peak hour trips threshold AM or PM. Staff also included that in your board um package. This exemption formally proves that the traffic um does not negatively impact the function the functionality of the surrounding roadways. Um concern number three regarding noise. This facility is considered a um is not considered a high noise generator um under the land development code. Furthermore, this specific facility is dedicated solely to the use for the senior community. Any foreseen noise violations would be entirely enforceable post development through standard code compliance channels. Lastly, number four, concern that the facility may operate as a drug treatment or re rehabilitation center. Again, this application before the board is for a residential treatment and care facility as defined by the land development code. This classification, this classification is not synonymous with the drug abil rehabilitation center. Um the facility providing detoxification or substance abuse treatment would require different licensing, different disclosures, and potentially different use um land use approvals. The county evaluates the um use exactly as submitted. Um operating a materially different use would constitute a violation of the conditional use approval. Um in summary, staff has reviewed the application under

the applicable provisions of [cough and clears throat] the Pasco County Land Development Code. The planning commission recommended approval with conditions. The concerns raised um relate to the issues that are thoroughly addressed in the site development review where the applicant must prove their development plans explicitly in line with the uh land development code prior to permit issuance. Therefore, I respectfully request the board's approval. Thank you.

Thank you. Any questions for the applicants?

No. I I had looked at this property when I we got a letter that it was for sale. I think the federal government owns it. Is that right, Mike? Mike and I went and looked at it. We wondered about a fire station over here.

Um, but I think this is a good spot for something like this personally. Yeah.

Right.

All right. Time for public comment for item P54. Anyone here from the public to speak to this item? Please come forward.

For the record, if you could state your name, address, and then state if you've been sworn. I know you have been, but

Betsy Law Lamoy and I'm on 3150 Wilson Road in Land of Lakes. Um, and I was in your

Yes. And chairman and commissioners, thank you for allowing me to address issues or concerns on this property. 40 beds doesn't sound like a large facility on an 8 acre parcel. However, if you've looked at this parcel as you say you had, Miss Starky, there's a large pond that takes up quite a bit of that. There's um I'm not sure I'm I don't know how much of acreage the pond is, but it is a small property. The road is small there. There's no center line. It's a dead-end road. I I live toward the end of the road, and there are only there are seven families toward the end of the road. We've been impacted when the juvenile detention center was there with trucks that are delivering items to the facility. They park in the road and we can't get around when we're trying to, you know, leave and come back to our homes. Um, the noise level is a concern and I understand that that would be addressed at a later time if that in fact was a was an issue. Um, my main concern is the amount of traffic that vehicles aren't allowed, delivery trucks and other vehicles aren't allowed to block the road and lawn services. That's another issue. Um, I was hoping for that they would show a picture. Okay. So, um, so the road is paved south from 54 for about a half a mile to 3/4 of a mile. Then it becomes Lime Rock. And so I'm on the at the end of the Lime Rock Road. And um, oh, I've been there since 81. I knew when it was a property and I grew up on land adjacent to that.

So I've been in the area since pretty much all my life. Um, I knew the people that lived in the house where this property is and then it was sold and sold again and it's become in 81 was a um child care center and then gradually has evolved and then the juvenile detention center. Um it just it is the road is just very narrow right there and I I don't know other than complain every time something blocks it. But you know that's also blocking access to our houses for fire and emergency services. Just these are things I would I would like you to know. I am I am the writer of the email to Miss Joerger and I am happy to hear it the it is referred to as a passive senior care facility and doesn't have anything to do with um drug treatment but I know things can change too because this has evolved through the years as a as different kind of um a center. I would also like to request stop signs at their driveways so that staff and other vehicles leaving the property stop because you know our we're on the road and they're coming out from there. This has happened when it was operating as a different kind of facility. So, and the signs that are put up, I don't know if y'all can see that, but they kind of droop. They aren't like the old yellow signs that used they used to put up. This is the original one and about two weeks later it was unreadable.

You want to submit those?

Um well, if you want me to. I It's just I think

I don't know.

I would say yes. Um move to receive and file. Second there.

All in favor say I. I.

That'll make it part of the record. Thank you.

Thank you.

Anyone else here to speak to item P54?

Is there anyone online? No one's online. Okay,

it's to the board.

I have a question for the applicant.

All right, question for the applicant. Please come forward.

Um, given the concern about drug treatment, would you have any concern with changing condition one to say congregate care facility instead of residential treatment and care facility?

Uh, the reason why it was um labeled as a residential and care facility is because of the land development code. it was labeled that way. Um, we don't have any

Well, my only concern is that definition includes drug treatment and it includes drug treatment and rehabilitation. And I know you said you're not doing that, but I think the objector is technically correct that it could it could be converted to that. So that's why I'm asking the question, are you willing to limit condition one to So it's not that broad definition.

Yes sir.

I mean because the agenda amendment says you intend to do a congregate care living facility.

Is that accurate?

Right. But when we went through site development review or review with staff, they labeled it as um a residential and care facility based on what we were proposing in the land development code. So that's why we

I'm just saying to truly narrow it to the use that you're proposing and not have it potentially be drug treatment, I think that would have to be changed to congregate care facility and I I want to know if you were okay with that change.

Yes.

Let me before you you agree to that, let me just bring up one thing if I could. So my dad just being in in a ALF um he went in for rehab. He had people that were in there that were going to be in there as an assisted living facility and weren't pretty much coming out. My dad was only there for a couple of weeks. So, I'm fine to protect it against the drug rehab, but I think some of those people will come in, have a fall, had have a surgery, they have to rehabilitate themselves. So, it's not drug rehab, physical rehab, which I think is fine to have in there. Yeah.

So, I don't want to make sure you don't restrict yourself on that.

Right. Yes. Well, I mean it could say congregate living facility, skilled nursing facility or convolescent home, which is the other things that are listed under that definition or similar facilities. The problem is that definition also includes drug treatment and rehabilitation.

Right? So, I'm just trying to get to the right definition but not not prevent them from the uses that it's probably going to happen or be bene beneficial to happen. So my recommendation then would be to change it to say that it's limited to adult congregate living facilities, skilled nursing facilities, convolescent homes or similar facilities.

Okay.

Would you be okay with that?

Yes. Chair, what about the uh since it is a narrow road, [cough] the the the ability to bring in your you know, if there's a tractor trailer bringing in food or whatnot, is there a ability to unload and pull out without blocking the other neighbors? So to address the neighbors concern about um delivery, we're only proposing um like meal prepping as far as like using somebody would bring in the meals and they would just microwave it. It's not, you know, constant deliveries of supplies or anything like that for for the facility.

Okay. And then as far as the roadway, there is um there is a condition on the approval that we um convey 60 ft right of way, which we did. We submitted a revised um conceptual site plan um for the um the proposed widening of Wilson Road um down the road.

Um let's go a little further with that if I could. Um when you're saying that right now, is it a dirt road all the way through up to your property?

No, it's not a dirt road. It's a collector road. Yes, sir.

Okay. So, then after that

after that property, you're going to give that away in case we ever do decide to pay to go.

Yes. That was a condition of approval which we um agreed to and we provided a conditional um a convention uh I'm sorry, a site plan, a revised site plan to show that um conveyance.

Okay. As far as access management goes, it's probably for staff to make sure that if they do have trucks coming in, they're not going to be parking on the roadway.

Correct. Yes.

And staff agrees with that. if you want to not. Okay. Okay.

And then just quick question. Um would now be the time to also address um the resident's concern about the stop signs

or not.

Sure.

That would all be uh under site development review um for um access site access. So yes,

I just wanted to clarify.

Yes, it would be it would be um implemented.

Okay. Anything else the applicant or staff? Okay, it's to the board.

Move approved.

Second.

Is that with the rec the change to condition one?

I read into the

Yeah, I'm good with the new wording on that.

Okay.

Okay. A motion to second with the attorney's language to protect the use. All in favor say I. I.

Any opposed? Okay. Item P-55.

Item P-55 was published in the Tampa Bay Times on July 8th, 2026 and by affidavit of certified mailings and site postings. The item was continued from the August 25th, 2026 BCC meeting to today.

Item P55 is PD267926. This is a zoning amendment in the name of Landmark LLC, Kitten Trail Farms. It's a change in zoning from an AC agricultural district to an AR agricultural residential district in northwest Pasco County. on the south side of Kitten Trail, approximately one mile east of the intersection of Kitten Trail and Hicks Road, containing approximately 14.57 acres, discuss with the recommendation to approve the zoning amendment. And there's a presentation if so desired.

Anyone presentation?

Okay. All right. Thank you.

To the applicant.

Hello. Good afternoon, chairman and county commissioners. Um, this is my second time here. I was here for the first hearing. Uh, I'm the owner of 11,000 Kitten Trail, 14 12 acres. I'm requesting today for the property to be reszoned from AC to AR because currently you can only put one home on the entire property. Everything around us is consistently AR. And uh it's a minimum I believe of 2 and 1/2 Yeah. 2 and 1/2 acres is what we're asking for um for to be divided under the AR code as we go forward for that to be permitted. And I'm happy to answer any questions.

Any questions?

How many what's the two and a half

two and a half acres of lot size

lot

for each lot?

For each lot.

Oh yeah. That's that's good size lot. I want to thank you for bringing it forward to go to that size

as all these infill properties come in makes it difficult between traffic and everything else. So I appreciate you bringing this forward the way you have. I think it's very reasonable.

Yeah.

Thank you sir.

Yeah chair and just you know staff has worked on minor rule subdivisions. Let's give her a good experience with the minor rule subdivisions that that they've done here because we'd like to see more of these come forward. Excellent. Okay.

Thank you.

All right. This is a public hearing. Anyone here for item T-55?

Anyone online?

No one's online.

Move approval.

Second. Have

a motion to second. All in favor say I.

I.

I. Any opposed? Motion pass. 50. Okay, that'll do the public hearings. And now we're going to move back. We're going to go to R48. Michelle W.

Yes. Do

you have a presentation

or the staff person?

A second. Go ahead and pull that up, please.

You want You wanted something to do till 5:15.

I'm not I'm not going to sleep tonight.

Good afternoon, commissioners. Connor Donovan with County Administration. I was really Yeah, we have a title slide. I was really hoping to go in the morning so I could steal Adam's credit for the cups. I was going to say they were from both of us.

There you go.

That didn't happen, but at least my title is short. BCC meeting time review.

So, this is just going to be a brief presentation that outlined some highle alternatives to our current meeting times. The first thing we did when the board tasked us with this earlier this summer was look at what our surrounding counties in the Tampa Bay area were doing for their meeting times. And so just as a note before we dive into it, we did merge some terminology for the sake of this summary. So in some instances where you see public hearing that might be more focused on land use only or vice versa. Ultimately, if you guys wanted to move forward with any of the alternatives we're going to talk about today, we would come back to you with more concrete language. So, don't get bogged down with the legal jargon. Uh, the first county we're going to go over is ourselves. I think just something interesting to note is that we are the only county in the Tampa Bay area to have our regular meetings in two different locations to accommodate residents on both sides of the county. So most other counties just kind of pick a centralish location and they operate out of there full-time. Obviously we have our east side and westside meetings. Additionally, not all counties have a time certain for public hearings that you can always count on. Some of them they're just going to roll their meetings and whatever it happens happens. So I just thought that was kind of two interesting things we did to try to maximize accessibility in our current meeting state. So, Penllis is a little bit more uh complex. They're going to have two regular meetings just like we do in one location. One of them is going to begin at 9:30 a.m. and that's intended for all regular business other than contentious public hearings. Their second meeting of the month is going to begin in the afternoon. They're going to break at 5 and then they're going to come back in the evening for public hearing items and particularly anything they deem possibly contentious as far as public hearings go. What makes Hernando unique is that they have three meetings per month. So rather than mess with um an evening meeting or different meeting times, they just say, "Hey, let's have one meeting additional typically like when we would do a workshop um or work session in the middle of the month just focused on public hearings." And as I go through these, I know I'm moving a little quick. We'll kind of get into the pros and cons of each of these in a little bit. Moving on to Hillsboro, very similar to what we just talked about with Hernando. uh they're going to have three meetings per month. They're all going to start at 9:00 a.m. Um there's not typically a break, right? They afford their chair and the board that kind of flexibility to determine, hey, based on the amount of stuff we have at the meeting, we may not break for lunch. We may break for lunch. Um when it comes to pulk, very straightforward. We're getting the two meetings per month, just like us, but they're all going to start at 9:00 and

that's for all business. Again, no break in there. Um, Citrus County, very similar to us, but starting in the afternoon. So, rather than starting at 10:00 a.m., they're going to start at 1:00 and then occasionally if they need to break, they can, but typically there's no break. And then at 5:00, they're going to dive into their public hearings. So, that's kind of their way.

They have no lunch.

Typically, that I think they would say 1:00 you're having an early lunch. you're getting the early bird uh you know brunch or something like that. Um because they start at 1.

We would bring snacks.

That's not healthy.

We bring snacks.

That's not healthy.

Uh and then Manatee County. Manatee County. Uh again, three meetings a month. They're all going to start at 9:00 a.m. But they do have that additional month or additional month, sorry, additional meeting just like Hillsboro and Hernando do kind of dedicated to land use. So, what we have before you today very similar to kind of what we saw in those other counties, we have five options for you. Um, we labeled them 1 A, 1 B, 2 A, 2 B, and three because I can't count to five. Um, but based on the alternatives we talked about, um, that's kind of where we derived these. So, option 1 A, that's really the same thing we do now, but starting an hour earlier to ensure that we get through our regular business in the morning session. So today was kind of a good example where, you know, we had our resolutions, you had public comment, you kind of ran out of time right before lunch. The logic here is what some of the other counties do starting at 9:00 a.m. in order to make sure, hey, in the morning we're covering everything other than public hearings. So the advantage of that is that it aligns with our current model. Disadvantage of that is that really the genesis of this presentation was trying to make things more accessible. Doesn't really change a whole lot. uh for working residents and families. Option 1B, earlier start times roll into public hearings. So that's kind of the same thing I just described, but you lose the set standard time of when public hearings are going to be, and you gain the flexibility of determining as a board when you want those breaks to be. So again, you look at today as an example, you guys could say, "Hey, let's take a later lunch. Let's work through the entire budget presentation." um and then break a little bit later. Again, part of the disadvantage with the 9:00 am meeting, in addition to not really addressing the working residents, um 9:00 a.m. meetings are going to cause some significant traffic issues for somebody trying to get over here from Date City or Newport Richie to Dade City and vice versa. Option 2 A. So, we actually had a a public commenter address this today. Um, and that would just be holding public hearings in the evening, right? And so we see it in a couple different county examples in our area where they're holding their public hearings or particularly contentious public hearings at 5:00 p.m. or later. The obvious advantage of that is that it better accommodates working residents and families that may not get off work until 5:00. Um, disadvantage of that is that for every person we accommodate with a new start time, you're probably creating another schedule conflict for somebody else because then it's it's not work, it's I got to make dinner, I got to go to soccer practice and all that other stuff.

Option 2B, add a separate third monthly meeting for public hearings. So again, we saw that with three counties in the area where they say, "Okay, instead of, you know, having different meeting start times or anything like that, let's just add a dedicated meeting to public hearings or to land use." Um, and so the nice thing about that is that it does provide a focus for each meeting, right? You know, you're going to talk about regular business. It would provide more time for presentations um and clarity for the residents on what's going to be talked about when. um disadvantage is that once you add that one monthly meeting, then you're only having one opportunity for public hearings to move forward. And so you're kind of losing maybe some speed of that process because you just have that one opportunity. And then also there's kind of a geographical fairness concern being that is the one meeting a month going to be over here and then if I'm in Dade City, I got to wait, you know, 45 days to have a public hearing near me. And so that could be a potential issue. Option three, monthly meetings with different start times and structure. This was the second example we talked about in Penllis, right? So we would have, this is just an example. We could have any variation you guys would like, but in this example, we'd have one monthly meeting. It would begin at 10:00 a.m. It could look very much how we do it now. And then the second monthly meeting would begin in the afternoon and we could either roll into public hearings in the evening, take a break at 5:00, come back at 6 or something like that. Again, we're allowing one meeting a month to kind of guarantee some afterwork participation. Um, disadvantage there is that it is a little bit confusing to have two set standard meetings a month, but the second one is going to start at a completely different time and the breaks are going to be different. Last but not least, this is just for awareness, our city meeting schedules. I think we want to be mindful no matter how we move forward not to step on the toes of any incorporated municipal residents that also pay taxes into the county and then put them in a position where they have to decide which meeting they want to attend. Um, so this is more just for awareness. I'm not going to dive into each one, but this is when our cities currently meet. And with that, I'm going to turn it over to the board for discussion, unless you guys have any questions.

Question discussion. Commission, start it out.

Yeah. No. Uh, Connor, thank y'all for taking a look and see what what's going on around. Um, since coming on the board, I often thought the 10 o'clock start time was a bit late. I mean, we all go to meetings from 7 a.m. 8:00 a.m. in the morning and try to have, you know, efficient use of time. I'm also not a fan of the hour and a half recess either. Um, you know, we often don't get enough work done in the morning when, you know, everybody's might think firing on all cylinders and coffeey's flowing and we're able to get get some good work done. So, I I like the idea of starting earlier, cutting lunch down to an hour. Um, and also not opposed to having an evening meeting for land use. I mean, we we're seeing due process in in in certain instances being eroded away from Tallahassee. And we hear folks all the time, hey, I wish I could come to the meeting, but you start at 10:00 in the morning, right? So, that this whole exercise is about finding the best best way to balance due process and access for folks uh and also becoming uh more efficient with the board's day. Um, I've been consistent about those at least the start time and the lunchtime since joining the board. Um, but uh I think folks are becoming more engaged and they're enjoying citizens academy and joining uh leadership Pasco Leadership Tampa Bay and they want to be able to be a part of our meetings especially with land use items, right? And uh sometimes I don't think we see um the full the the full temperament of folks and neighbors. I mean it's folks have to really work to get here. So, uh, our job is to be, I like to think, as as accessible as possible and allow folks the due process to to be able to speak to an item that impacts them and uh, you know, comment on on like the good neighbor policies that we're bringing up here today, which is a great step forward and and quality of life here in our county. So, grateful for your work on this, Connor, and your team and bringing it up for discussion of the board. may would have been done how it was done in the past uh in the county. I don't I don't know. But um it's great to see these options and see what everybody else thinks.

Any thoughts?

Well, um

I have a couple thoughts. Um and I personally think we should wait and wait on two two different things to finish. Um, one is the comp plan changes because I think we'll have a lot less public hearings once our comp plan is updated and we won't have all these comp plan amendments. Um, see what that looks like. And two, I'm just I drive 52 to get to the meetings as Sir Commissioner Oakley does. And um, I I personally do not want to be driving 52 in the dark

back and forth. And nor do I want my constituents driving 52 in the dark. So, I would say let that road get built and be less dangerous. It's terrifying when I drive home in the dark on that road and um and keep everybody safe. That what these other some of these other counties don't have is the ability to join remotely and we do. So, that helps in that situation. So, that's where I am. Thank you.

Sure.

I have a suggestion. So if we if [clears throat] we did a third monthly meeting, if that's Commissioner Stark's concern, could we use the central where we have our board workshops for our land use meeting?

So then it's a central location for east and west.

Talking at the utilities building. Yeah. [clears throat] I mean, I don't see why not. I mean, we're able to have and record. I would probably make sure the clerk's operations uh could be done. Otherwise, you could do them anywhere. It's a public forum. it's publicly accessible.

My only my concern is if I I'd want it to be like a pilot program like the gentleman said earlier. Let's see what our what our numbers are, right? [snorts] I mean, we could do it for six months, a year, what, you know, whatever. But, um, I just think something centrally located so the east so if it's on the west, then the east side people aren't waiting a month to come over here, etc. So, I think something Midount A would be good and B um I would just say only land use items if you guys agree because that's what really people are concerned about. The other things, you know, they just leave after that. So the place is empty. So we'd be literally holding our meeting for nobody. So that's just my two cents.

Thoughts on that?

Yeah. Um, I'd look at I pretty well like the way we have it set up with our meetings. Uh, I see quite a few times seems like lately that it takes a little bit longer than um the two hours to lunch to finish the early morning the morning events. I think if we started at like 9:30 then we could but I don't I like I believe other commissioners have meetings prior to the meeting of that day for people that are staff that need to talk to you before you see a a some item come up before you and and a lot of times I use that 9 to 10 to uh see those folks but I also could do that in 30 minutes. I could do that from 9:00 to 9:30 and start meetings at 9:30 instead. Then you wouldn't run over. We've run over I'm sure this year it seems like we've run over I know four or five times into the afternoon public hearings which interferes with that a little bit but it's been that just that little 30 minute period we needed to finish that morning. So, but the hour and a half for lunch, a lot of us have I think we have meetings during lunch a lot of times and it's hard to get in and out of restaurants and get back in time. Um, you know, when you're having that. So, uh, don't public hearings always being at 1:30 I think gives our public the awareness that it's going to happen. It's going to be at 1:30. So, when we delay it, it it kind of interferes with it. But there's people that take can take off and be there for that public meeting that afternoon. So I see people doing that. Uh I'd rather do have them do that than nighttime meetings because definitely I don't want to drive at night and um same with my staff. They don't need to be, you know, driving at night. It's just late. You spend a lot of time. But I've heard in the past when they did have night meetings, they ran so late that it actually cost staff like a day and a half of time because you prepare for the night meeting which you're using all for that. So then you stay there and sometimes they would last 12 1:00 in the morning. The next day, staff might come in at 8, but they're not going to be very well that day because they they haven't got any rest. So, you end up losing time. And and we're going to sense that we're going to uh be tightening up our belts and watching how we spend money. We don't need to be wasting staff time on that type of thing, but we need to tighten up our belts and do the right thing and make sure that every moves made by staff is working toward the end result of helping the public get their developments and ordinances done for them. So, I think we're doing it a good way. And I I see I know every now and then you'll hear that somebody can't come to the meeting because of work. Well, the gentleman that said he couldn't ever come to the meeting, work, he got off work today to come because it was very important for him to be here to say what he said today. But he got off and was here. So, it's hard to, you know, change a lot of things to night

meetings when everybody has the possibility of of getting off work. So, so I I think what we do normally, if anything, I'd I'd change to 9:30 in the morning or something like that, but keep the hour and a half for lunch. And then our two meetings separate with East West saves all of our citizens the long drive for a project that's in their area and in their neighborhood. you hear it right locally where where you're at rather than you having to drive from east side of Pasco all the way to west side to hear item that actually affects east side. So I think we do a good job at separating our stuff by 4 44 or 41 at separating the different east west part of the procedures. Okay. Now, years ago with the land use decisions, we did them twice a year. You'd have like 12, 13, 14, 15 items and you do it in a day.

Oh, yeah.

And then you do it again. And those were like they were big big deals. And we changed all that. And and I'm going to say it's it's actually weakened the public debate to it knowing what was going on. Um I I like the 10:00 start. reason is um if you're coming from one side of the other makes it easier.

Oh yeah.

Number two and then if you're going to schedule meetings and a lot of times like you know I had a conversation with Brandford this morning and 9:30 might have been a little bit tight but to to [clears throat] make it happen but I think you know we we get our interviews Fridays with Mike. um you got the weekend to review a little bit more, dig a little bit more, and then Monday morning you got to make some calls and you may not get the answers. It may take till Tuesday. So, I think the the later time at 10:00, I'm I'm fine with that.

The amount of times we go over um I'd say it's probably 50/50. Yeah.

But it's okay. I mean,

I understand doing the things I generally speaking, I don't I don't think there's too many nights around after 5:30,

right?

So, I don't think it's outrageous in any way at all. So, I wouldn't change that dynamic. That's better for the work schedule for the, you know, for our staff as well. And you did bring up some good staff things about the night meeting. So, let me just talk to the night meeting. I think you could do it. And I like having the land use on one side of the county or east of 41, the other side west of 41. That's that's mandatory. Now, there may be sometimes you might be dealing with, let's say, a Heritage Springs where they got something coming in there. That doesn't have to be at night if it's pretty much them. So, you could find a way to make exceptions to have it in the morning if that's the prominent. So, those seniors don't have to drive. But for the majority of these decisions, it's usually involving families. It's involving younger people as well that just can't get the work off. I mean, this is a tough state to work when no unions pretty much and you got to show up when you got to show up and you're not going to give your time off because they want you there, etc. And it's hard for someone who's not making a lot of money to be able to force their way through. The executives can do it a lot easier. But the the the the middle class and and the poor, they're going to have a tough time making those meetings, but it may be very important to them. We could be talking about, you know, you know, what's going to come in where there's going to be fields and parks and libraries, etc. That's important. they're not going to be able to make it in the morning. They may have to miss, you know, a soccer game. They may have to miss a baseball game. But when they're dealing with their neighborhood and it's going to be no more than, you know, for that one big hearing that's in the neighborhood, etc. If it's important to them, they're going to show up and you give them the opportunity.

Right.

Now, Beacon Woods was one before I even got on here. What I heard we're here till like 11 o'clock at night when Walmart was coming in, etc. I don't think there was another one that I can remember that went anywhere near that late. Sometimes they do, but pretty much I think six o'clock is probably a good time to start it. Um, and if you do it every other side of the county in the same buildings we're doing in right now, it's strong. It's predictable. And I don't think it's a problem for the development community to wait an extra 30 days to hear it from one side, but I think it gives our citizens a better participation. And I would much rather deal with citizens right in front of me with all the information. They can see the presentation. They can see our dialogue and then the developer gets to hear it too. And you know how hard it is to get developers to do anything right until they feel pressure. But when they feel the pressure, they react.

And we're taking that away not only from the citizens but from us to get I think what's the best development we can get. So I think we should stick with the 10 o'clock to add the extra meeting every month one side the other side started at six o'clock and just for the land use because the land use is the one thing we can just say we don't like it and we're done. We have a lot of flexibility with that.

That's my thought. My thought is to have the third meeting, central county, so then people's projects aren't being held up waiting the extra month and then it's centrally located for everybody, east and west. Knock it out. I I like I personally like the midcount idea using the utility building.

You're saying don't have the afternoon meetings.

What I'm saying is no, have our night or evening meeting. So, so our afternoons are the land use meetings. So, we would just have the 10 to 12 meeting in Date City

just once a month. All of our land use for east and west would be at that one meeting.

What and what would be in the afternoon and the other two meeting other two meetings?

Nothing,

right?

You'd have to finish up your morning,

right? You have to finish your morning,

which means you wouldn't need an hour and a half lunch break.

I I don't know why. To me, it's not broken. But again,

Clark, you can make a do a pilot. I mean, you could

When would that night meeting be? Would it be if you wouldn't have anything in the afternoon? You mean you're going to get there? Like if y'all go to the east side, you're going to wait all afternoon to have the night meeting for your public hearing. I think the way it's set up is the way it keeps people from having to drive so much

and actually you're there. So, we got a pretty good setup. Great. Thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to talk because it does affect my team as well.

So, um, we don't right now budget for overtime. So, I would have to ask for amended budget for overtime if we went to evening hours. And, um, while I was not here when there were evening hours, um, we our supervisor that was here at the time who now is retired [clears throat] said that they would go, as Mr. Oakley had said on until like 1 and 2 a.m. in the morning. It got it got rough. So, um if there's parameters around it to make it not do that, I think that would be good. But it was a struggle. Um my team, not my team, but Jed Pitman's team would be there until the wee hours of the morning to come back into the office and start the day. So, that was very challenging um and and difficult for the team. The other thing that is available to public, which was not available at that point in time, was virtual attendance,

which I just don't know if that's advertised enough because I don't think the public takes as much advantage of that. Um, and maybe to have that more um out there so that they know that that is an option. And it's so easy to, you know, be at work and just jump on when you're ready to go, when your name is called rather than to take the time off work to come. And I think that employers might be more accommodating for that. But I don't know if the public is very much aware of our virtual option that started because of COVID and we and you have kept it and I think that is a a great option

and that's what these other counties don't have but we have

right I agree.

Yeah.

If you're if you're a painter, a plumber, not be wait for your time to be called. You could be in the middle of a job. You be talking to a customer, etc. you could be doing retail stuff and to be able to say, "I'm going to be able to take the break." It's one thing if you're working an office job and you you're just sitting there doing your stuff and you can listen to it as it's going on, but that's not 20% of the population. So, for those people,

so comment or question really. Um, this is obviously a decision for the board and I'll show up wherever you tell me to show up, but um, I just want to clarify when you say land use agenda because you there's a lot that's on your public hearing agenda that is not resonings, you have CDD petitions, you have rideaway vacations, you have land development code amendments. There's a lot of things that are on your public hearing agenda that are not what I would call typical land use. So, are you saying that all of those things would go to this

just land use?

I'm hearing you say land use. So, to me that would specifically be comprehensive plan amendments and resonings

and conditional uses. So, you're just talking about

Yes.

resonings, conditional uses and comp plan amendments.

No,

no,

just land use period.

Well, that's

Well, those would be land use. But for instance, today Mr. Thomas got up and spoke about DMO that would we would hold that

comprehensive plan. Some people would argue some people would argue that your land development code amendments are land use. That's why I'm asking the question like you had you had a land development code amendment today to talk about construction route traffic. Well, that affects land use. So, somebody could argue that's land use. So, that's why I'm asking for clarification. When you say land use, what do you mean? Do you mean just resonings and compound amendments or do you mean everything that would be on your public typical public hearing agenda in the afternoon.

That's what I think it would be. Everything on the public hearing agenda would be that tonight.

I mean, I guess I would, if I could offer this, I mean, typically what at least the premise that Commissioner Weightman started out as is is usually these are dealing with land use, adjacent properties, and the development of property. And so, what I'm hearing him say is those are the types of items that these night meetings would be helpful for. While LDC amendments are technically land use, yes, they affect development, yes. But we rarely get any public comment uh when it when it sits for that,

which is ironic because the only one the statute tells you that you're supposed to have after 5:00 is land development code amendments. It's not it's not the other ones, which is I find ironic

and budget. Chair Michelle

Connor, what time does you said Hillsboro has a third meeting. What time is their their BOCC starts at 9ine and that third meeting is it what time?

I don't believe there's a difference in time.

They all start at 9:00.

Hillsboro, they all start at 9:00.

Yeah, they start at 9:00 and they roll.

So, back to the land use. I don't consider what we pretty much look at for land use being sane. I'm looking at the comprehensive plan amendments. Those are the ones I'm talking about where I think the benefit of the night meeting is fine. And I think if you've got one that you could say is uncontested, there's been no objections to it, then let it stay regular. But that's the only thing I think we need to hear at night. I don't think the others matter to the same degree because you got flexibility with that land use. People can make a difference. When someone's got zoning already and they're looking for little changes, conditional uses, etc. I I don't think you need that attention to to shift the whole thing.

The thing that comes to mind is the fact that you've got public hearing item. It's not land use, but it's public hearing.

And you're going to have two public hearings. and the public hearing that you're going here in the afternoon is still one that a citizen can't be at unless it was at night. So that that gets to be an issue if you put part of the public you going to keep some of the public hearing items in daytime. They'll never make those. All right. So let's look at the one we just had in Hudson. They first came in for a land use change. The one on on Denton and Mattis. They came in for a land use change and they were going to go to 1,600 homes, right? There was enough affluent people that were able to come out and speak to it. What you had happen from that point is you took that whole item from [clears throat] 1600 and they realized they can't get all they wanted and they backed it down to sticking within their land use ukes that was already there to be granted. That's the type of one you can affect when you get a a zoning coming in like an like the ALF we just had coming right through. They were perfectly entitled to come in there. We can work on conditions. We got them. But you don't I don't think you need the night for that. That can be something I understand but less it's it's less significant. Land use is big. There's a reason they had these things only twice a year. What we've gone to is gone to a commonplace thing where it's every month you get to go do it. I mean had somewhere they tried to do on the other side of the gy like the Kent Cro one heard over there when it should have been over here right and I thought the two guys were there was on consent because they thought they had worked out the details now it's ironic those people were able to show up but they didn't but again just the the comprehensive plan land amendments those are the ones we have the missile flexibility and people can affect it the others they don't have as much

so Mr. Cher, to be clear, I don't know that you can separate complaint amendments and resonings because as you know, you have a number of applications, particularly PDs, where they're coming to you on the same agenda, the comp plan amendment and the zoning. And I'm not sure you want to make the public have to show up two different

meetings. So, I'm okay with those being heard at the same time like we do. That that that I'm okay with because it's the same thing.

They have to be.

Yeah, I'm good with that.

Yeah.

[snorts]

Sorry, I was conferring with Connor. What were what were you good with, sir?

So, when when we do the comprehensive land amendments, a lot of time MPD is coming with it. We hear them usually the same time. I think we should do that.

So, if there's a companion together,

yes.

Okay.

So, what I Okay. So,

what I'm hearing you say is that the ones you would want to go tonight would be either comp all complaint amendments.

I understand that, but I'm just understand what his request is. Your request is all comp plan amendments and any resonings that are with comp plan amendments.

Yeah, they're companion MPUDS or or whatever they are.

But if it's not if it's not related to a comp plan amendments, you'd be okay just being on a normal

Yes.

1:30 a.m. 1:30 p.m. agenda.

Yeah.

Do you want to do 1:30 or were we going to have that meeting roll because that makes a difference when you advertise. So, couple things. Connor, can you summarize what you've heard so so far, please?

Yeah. So, what we've heard so far is we're going to keep our two regular meetings starting at 10:00 a.m. In between those, we're going to have a separate third meeting dedicated to comp plan updates and their companion items in the evening. We'd have to determine what day of the week we want that to be standard as far as the month goes. Um, I think I've heard three as far as consensus goes. Obviously, to Commissioner Stark's point, you'd want to vote on it. I

Yeah, I've got lots of board commitments and stuff and I don't think I

Well, to be clear, when we start, this could also be discussed. So, we're we're putting the we've we've punted the board next year's board calendar on purpose, waiting for the board to kind of discuss this. I do have it teed up for October 6th, but I may have to look at that. So, how we start this, if this is the will of the board, you know, that's completely up to you. we could we could push it out a little bit further because there's going to be noticing requirements. I don't know what we have in the queue in terms of of of other items. So there's you you still retain some flexibility on that to Commissioner Starky's uh concerns. Don't it doesn't have to start January 1. It could start June of next year. uh for example,

and Mr. Ro, I would uh I would appreciate us all thinking about it again and bringing this back and and really hashing out some more after we we we've set our piece about each one of us, but feel what really works for each of us and then could bring it back and and discuss it for a final vote. So,

um

um I do want to ask you about overtime and what's the impact on the budget because I didn't know we had extra money laying around.

So, I I'd have to I'd have to take a look at that. Um, most of the people I see here are salaried uh with with some exceptions. Guess we'll put Gina on salary, too. We'll fix that problem. No, I'm kidding. We'll we'll take a look.

Okay.

Chair chair me.

Um, do

I I I I do want to um point out a couple of things. Um I think it's important particularly if we're looking at the land use or or some version of the land use in the evening is that the comp plan primarily deals with future land use changes. And so that that occurs when when the proposed use is not compatible with with the current future land use in the comp plan. And I think our goal with the the the Pasco 2050 is to reduce the number of future comp plan amendments. Um at least in the short term. Um I think I think that you know further that you get away from the adoption of that the likelihood that those may start creeping up because you know you're 10 years out or or or eight years out. But I do want to note for the board in particular is when we're talking about resoning um and I think uh Mr. Goldstein was mentioning this is that as we look at MPUDs, these could be projects where the future land use um or or the MPU is consistent with the current future land use and therefore comp plan amendment may not be required. And many times these are the large projects, these larger MPUDs are the ones that potentially have contentious issues with neighbors and and and the community. And so I think that for for our purposes, for staff, it would be real helpful to really provide that distinction between these larger projects versus like a more simple reasonzoning like we saw this afternoon from an AR AC to an AR.

Well, I think commot Commissioner Oak brings up a good point about waiting waiting to go through this. This is a great dialogue we've had.

Yeah. um appreciate you bringing this forward, Commissioner Wayne, because it's something that I've always felt that our people aren't getting enough time with us and we don't have enough push for the developers to get the stuff we need because of the different uh regulations from the state. So, I I think it is good for us to wait. Uh Nikki [clears throat] says budget hearings as well. Uh, amendment three might be a factor as far what we look at, but I think the dialogue is good and maybe some more thought from everybody about what they think because I will tell you, uh, I was very pleased with every little idea that came through because a little bit different, a little twist, little twist. So, I think it's good to let all these things gel a little bit. Let's think about a little bit more and maybe bring it back in December or something and see where see where we go from there.

Yeah, chairman, it it's important. You know, there's folks that take off work. I mean, if you're working hourly and they take off their prime, you know, they're taking off three, four hours to to come and share how, you know, the government's going to impact their life and uh they'll feel that or sometimes it may take all day and it shouldn't cost people money to have to come here and speak to us and um so I I think it good of this board to figure out a way to to make it work for folks and not have to take off work and be your retirees or salaried people. I you know a little bit different but folks who are working hourly um or you know even if you know they're a salaried project or person they may have big projects that day they have to get done they can't be here so I think evening an evening conversation is important. Okay, she

I think in the meantime until we uh take this up again that we take um your suggestion of really getting the word out there. Um doing a big social media push of saying, you know, can't be there, join us online, come virtually. um you know maybe and not that we could make appointments or placeholders but maybe you know we could say develop something that says hey which I know would be hard because of discussion and stuff like that but when it comes to public hearing they sign up for a time slot so then if they are at work that they know that they're not going to have to be on hold forever. I mean I don't know I'm just throwing it out there but a social media push definitely until we pick this back up. I have a relating comment that I'm sorry. Uh, one thing that's very important, I think we need to stress this a little more to our citizens that if they will direct their emails or their calls

to their district commissioner who knows the area they're in and they cover like I do, I know if they make a call to me, I know where to tell them how it can be fixed or what to attack on it to help that citizen. But if if you're in Newport Richie on the coast over here somewhere and you give me that email and that call, I don't have a clue [clears throat] because I'm not aware of the the way the landl. But I can handle my district. And if more people will do that, they'll get the answers they want quicker than even waiting for a public hearing or a meeting. and we'll know prior to those public hearings how our citizens feel when they reach out to in their district like that.

So, it's half the county taken care of.

Yeah. [laughter]

Mr. Turkey,

you know, um, someone sent us an email. I think we all got it about structure and emails and, um, I don't think we have the capability now. I'm hoping one day we'll get smarter using AI for some of the things that we do. But um part of the suggestion in that email was that that emails that come in somehow get categorized and compulated for that issue for that date.

And I think I thought that was a good idea.

So they then they don't get lost in the shuffle. Um and that we you know we're we're seeing what our public's saying if they can't be here. So, um I don't I don't think we have the ability to do that now. Um unless you're having our staff categorize

I think we manually I think if we get emails I believe they are attached to the record if we have email opposition that we're able to

you attach it.

I've seen them attach that land use items before.

We don't see that. I mean I don't see a compilation of emails that come to me before you the day of a hearing or anything like that. I mean, I see them when they come in randomly, but I thought that was a good idea. And I think that would also help our citizens think they are make sure they know their voices are getting heard.

There's some way to

Well, nothing being in person and hearing folks is so much stronger than an email. Emails get lost into outer space. To have somebody physically take their time and show up and care brings so much more value into the decisions that we all have to make. When someone takes time out of their day to do something that they don't want to have to do, they only reason they're coming to the government is because there's a problem and they're impacted. They're not here because they're happy to be here. And there's an email AI. None of that will ever replace having a human being in front of each other, eye to eye, sharing their feelings or their thoughts on a matter. It that will it will there's there's no comparison there. Dude, I think the social media for the virtual option is a good idea, but the way most applicant the way most neighbors find out about these hearings is the mailed notice from the applicant. So, I think that if you really want to get the word out, then staff needs to have the applicant start putting the virtual option somewhere in their mailed notices to the neighbors. Um because otherwise I mean that's the main way that most of them find out. So I don't you know if David heard that or one of the David's heard that but if you it's probably how you're going to have to get the word out I think or maybe even on the sign that gets posted because that's how most neighbors find out about

Yeah, there's a lot of opportunity that I think we could we can exploit on that.

Um Mr. Chairman, David Engel, planning and economic growth director. I I just want to like indicate to you we don't lose emails. They don't go missing. Emails come in. Uh if it's direct from a citizen or it's through a commissioner's office or the county administration, it's part of the official record.

That wasn't what I was saying.

Yeah.

I I was saying this gentleman suggested to do a compilation.

Well, I didn't say you guys do that, but

I I didn't say you said it. Um but somebody said, "Oh, yeah, you could lose an email." We don't lose the emails. Now, is that part of the actual presentation? No, it's just part of the actual official record that the board has access to. So, we could do a compilation. Sure.

We could have a um

they do that like that

folder that we can access or something. I don't know.

You could have it's actually I I can show you. It's actually in the agenda record. It's it's online as an attachment to the agendas. I know some of you have hard copy agendas that your staff uses if you access through the board portal. Uh those there are a lot of items that are in there scanned.

I review all these items in civic clerk and I often see compilations of correct [snorts] email objections

in civic clerk

14 years.

You know Amazon has a solution. Um if you try to buy a popular item and they have like a thousand people giving it four stars. If you go down AI goes through all the comments and they extrapolate and summarize.

So you wouldn't be acting on it but would tweak your interest and you could look into it. We could do that.

All right. I'm going to look and see. I'm on the online

agenda.

Well, to be clear, not everyone has email comments, but you'd have to you have to look at one where there's a lot of objection to it.

You would typically see email comments.

So, what I'm hearing is come back in December. You said December. That'll give us some time. Um, I'm seeing us narrowed from five options to maybe two. um one and a half, but we'll we'll we will we will look at that. And I think what we'll we'll come back with are some uh some options for how to do that third meeting. Location would be an option. We'll we'll look at costs, Commissioner Starky, because I do think if we do go to a different location, there would be some technology upgrades that would be necessary in order to to do what we do in these in these in these areas. So, we'll we'll be sure to pull all those together and um we can have a more focused conversation because now we're we've narrowed it down to what it is. In the meantime, however, I am going to push forward with the next year's calendar as we're currently doing business and then if the board decides to adopt and do something different, we can amend that calendar um at the appropriate times so they don't conflict with existing published public hearings.

Sounds good.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you team and thank you board for brainstorming here.

Yeah, good brainstorm.

I don't think the planes landed but we're flying.

Great discussion though.

All right, we'll close that and now we'll go to our 49 Jagger.

All right. Well, I uh just wanted to make it clear on our board rules uh when we are speaking for the board or speaking for us as elected individual commissioners. So, I asked uh county attorney if he could help with that.

So, I did um Commissioner Jagger did ask me to draft a rule to address um primarily issue of when the board is out in the public um acting on behalf of the board under what circumstances do you have authority to speak for the board as a whole? Um, so I've tried to draft a rule to address that situation. First I tried to address the situation where you're attending a groundbreaking, a ribbon cutting, some celebration, etc. Made it perfectly clear that in those situations that you do have authority to express appreciation on behalf of the full board. You don't need any delegated authority to do that. You can speak for the board at those ceremonial events. I don't think there's much controversy about that because you're probably doing that now. Um the more difficult issue to deal with, okay, what if it's a policy issue? So, um what I've tried to draft here if it's a policy issue is a limitation that you not speak for the entire board unless the board has voted to take an action on that policy issue and delegated authority to one of you to speak for the board. So, for example, I'll give you an example. Say it's the board's legislative agenda and the board adopts the legislative agenda and they send one of you up to DC or Tallahassee to speak in that legislative agenda. That would be an example of a situation where the board has voted on that legislative agenda. They delegated authority for you to advocate for the board for that legislative agenda and you have that delegated authority to speak for the board in that circumstance. If you don't have that delegated authority, what this rule says is that you can still speak on policy issues. And you all have the first amendment right to speak on policy all you want. But it says that if you're going to do that, you make it clear that you're speaking either in your individual capacity or in your capacity as a commission commissioner of your individual district and not for the entire board.

Question. If I use the word I, what does that mean?

I think I is in your individual capacity. Thank you.

Um, now what this does make clear though is that if you're speaking in your individual capacity that you not use your board elected position when you're when you're engaging in that um in that individual capacity. So the theory is because if the board has elected you to be either chair or vice chair or second vice chair that is a board-eleed position that you all sort of collectively agreed elected you to that position. So if you use that term the public may believe that you are speaking on ta behalf of the entire board if you're using that elected position.

Even if I use the word I all through my statements or through someone's statements. If you're only using I, you're not using chairman, I don't think then I think that you're just speaking in your imageable capacity.

If someone's reading a letter and they're looking at the letter I, that pronoun meaning one person, it goes through the whole thing. When you get down to the very end, whether it says what district you're from or the chair or vice chair, doesn't really matter.

What this rule says is that if you're using chair, that implies that you're speaking on behalf of the entire board.

Use the word chair. If you if you want if it's I what this rule says you should be saying either just commissioner Mariano

if I was represent the board I would would say we

is there any way to clarify like if I was writing something I would say I you know am speaking on behalf of

I guess I guess my question back to you is if it is just in your individual capacity Why do you feel like the need to put the word chair? Why do you feel the need to sign it chair at the end?

Don't was just announced that. So if that's the only problem, I'm okay with just leaving chair or vice chair when you're writing your own stuff. I don't care.

That's the per the primary purpose.

That's all we need though. We don't need all the other mumbo jumbo to go with it. And [snorts] I think I don't even need you to put something in writing. That could be just the policy we do. If we're going to write something on our behalf, we can say the district we're from and leave it at that. Why do we get more complex than that?

I mean, it's up to the board of whether you want to put me in your rules or not. I think Mr.

Chair,

I remember when I when I was chair, the only time I actually uh spoke for the board was when someone asked me to write a letter or something of that in support and I'd always ask for a vote and we all voted and that's when I would use it as speaking for the board. I never really spoke for the board other than being recognized as chair and you're speaking groundbreaking or something of that nature. You know, you would normally speak that way because you're chair and you would be given that privilege to do so, but other times I'm speaking as Ron Opie, commissioner of district one and that's that's it. So, um

yeah, I think there is a distinction when you're talking about a policy

versus add a ribbon cutting or

right something. You certainly

there is a difference.

Shouldn't be speaking about a policy and then putting the word chair unless it's a policy that the board has voted on

which makes it real difficult during our meetings because the chair is the chair but he's also a spokesman for his district. So at a meet board meeting like this if you're speaking sometimes you will be recognized because you're chairman as speaking for the board whether you are speaking for yourself or

that's different because we're all here.

It's happened. Yeah. And we're all here

right.

Yeah. I mean, I think it's I I think it can't hurt to have, you know, just safeguards in place, but that's just my opin opinion because I would just me speaking as for commissioner in my district, I want to make sure that nothing is said on my behalf like that that is that may be that person's feelings but not my feelings. So, and um especially, you know, when it comes to policy, I may have a diff a different opinion than someone else. So, I would want to just make sure that they're speaking for themselves and not for the board. So, I I think safeguards are are good. That's my opinion, but it's the pleasure of the board.

I'm Mr. W. I'm indifferent, but I'm kind of on an island sometimes on policy matters anyway. Um, whatever makes the majority feel comfortable where I am with it.

So, there is a change. Uh,

I don't think there's anything wrong with what this is saying. It's for for all of us.

Oh, I thought it was two pages.

We need a recess to read this. chairman.

Well,

I tried to put it in large [clears throat] print so that you could change my font and that pages.

Yeah, I I tried to change the font so it was readable.

These would be these size 18.

I I will tell you that a a situation came up when I was chair I got a phone call that asked me to sign something I won't say here. Um, but I refused to sign it because even though I was chair, my board had not voted on it. And I said, "I will not do that to my board."

Yeah.

And um really shame on you for asking me. And um it wouldn't have in my opinion it would have put everyone in jeopardy and I wouldn't I wouldn't do it.

So that's there's discretion in everything to do, right? That was good discretion. And I I can appreciate it and and again I don't think

and that was a powerful person who was asking me to sign something. Let me tell you.

So I just think that if you're going to be speaking for yourself [snorts] and you want to put your district down, so be it. Leave it at that. Just don't mention your chair or vice chair and let the pronouns say what you're saying. And I'm okay with changing that. Do I do you think I need a big page document like this? I really don't. I think we just got to agree. I'm not going to do that.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

That's understandable. [snorts]

All right. Anything else on this issue?

Well, I haven't I have

Well, I guess I just need to know whether um am I you all asking me to put this in your rules or not?

I'm not

I don't know.

Let me let me reread it. We've had a good conversation. I'm not sure that's so necessary, but

All right. Well, I think

I think we all have discussion on that.

Good point.

Yeah. And um and I I just have a a little thought. Um

Mr. Shy,

thank you so much, Chair. Um and that was on really the um how do I say this? Uh Robert's rules on on how to run a meeting. And

well, that's his rule. So, let me pass this one out. Yes,

this one's shorter.

Yes.

Well, I have a way I do it here. This

one goes to me.

It's even smaller. [laughter]

No way.

And it's red. [laughter]

You can put this on 60 pages.

I'm doing my best.

So, before you before, Commissioner Stark, let me just explain what I drafted here. So you already had an existing rule in your rules of procedure which is rule 9.4 that says that members shall be recognized by the chair. Um so it's already in your rules but that rule wasn't clear that it apply also applies when you're questioning applicants staff or witnesses during public hearings. So that's was added but then the more important change is that it doesn't really address the order in which um the chair is supposed to recognize members. So, this attempts to do that in a way that's generally consistent with Robert's rules of order. Um, but I'll let Commissioner Sty add to that if she wants to.

Well, that's it because I

Thank you so much. So, we we've we've had some meetings that I thought were running might have been running uh a foul of Robert Fools on how to run a proper meeting. And so, um, and I'll just I'll just go, by the way, I I was running it when I was chair, and I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I have studied Robert's rules a lot since I've been on too many zillion boards. Um, and that is that when the chair opens up a topic for discussion, it should start. Now, I I chose to start geographically. I started there, then there, then here, then there, and then chair,

and then a lot of times you missed me, Mr. Ro.

I [laughter] I tried hard. Well, no, I I started just starting with you.

I want I want one, too. But

But when I always start that way now, when you start engaging in more debate than just opening debate,

um you have to look both ways all the time. And I and that's why sometimes I'm like this, too. But um um I just think that this is the proper way to run a meeting and and be respectful that when you're chair it's you should in my opinion you really shouldn't go first. Uh chair

should be going last.

Um and you need to hear the opinions of everyone needs to be able to have their say um before that happens. Commissioner Oakley, you gonna give a permission to speak now? [laughter]

Yeah. Can I have permission? Okay.

Um,

we could do that button thing.

The fact of it is when when I'm chair, I recognize other members other than me because sometimes we all don't have something to say, but one or two might. So, you recognize those members. uh when I was chair of uh Swift Mode way back in 2010, there was a certain person on the board, they're a board member, but if you recognize them every time they raise a hand, they would be running the meeting and the meeting wouldn't go through like it should. So, I use Robert's rules to recognize each person and let them speak prior to that person being able to speak again.

Yes.

And it it did control the meeting. So, but I always recognize if I'm chair, I'll try to recognize the members uh before myself. So, yeah, I think that's the right way to do it.

So, and I agree that's the way you're supposed to do it.

Whoever has to me whoever's got the hand up first, that's where you call. And you may not see it. Sometimes you may miss somebody. So, you got two sides if you're in the middle. So, you may not piss pick it up, but I go whoever is first and I go from there.

Yeah. Um, and as far as, you know, to to bring up members being recognized by the chair, that is the number one violation that that goes on. And and Commissioner Stark, you in all fairness,

that's me

that you are it [laughter] and and it's I mean, you just literally, we could be in the middle of discussion and bam, you're you're popping in. So, it's like to bring this up. I'm glad you're recognizing

it that way. [laughter]

Okay. But we're now board members and we're not supposed to do it that way. supposed to go and wait and listen

and then we go we call. So I mean I I think and I think it would do better and I tell we sit on other boards too where it just go goes rapid fire just people oh yeah fire in fire out but I think here we can go. Now, let me ask this because we don't always do this, but I try to um because some sometimes Mike will even jump in when he's when he sees an issue, but do we if a if a staff person wants to speak um do we want to take the break, give them the permission to go forward? If they're start talking, do you want me to stop them till I get their attention, recognize them, or how do we want to handle that? because that that is a thing that we can do differently. But how do you want to handle as far as like if staff wants to interject like David Allen did a couple times today got something to add that was good David come up

I would recognize him and let him speak right it's in the flow because what's happened is David's heard something from the deis up here

that that has keyed something that he's thinking about that brought it to his mind. So let him speak because that fits in

okay

the conversation. So, I'll ask staff just get the attention of the chair to be able to speak and then go, not just jump into the conversation. Now, David, I had to stop you a little bit because at one point I had two commissioners wanted to speak and you wanted to speak, but

I thought that that that needed that commissioners needed to go first.

I agree with that. I apologize for that.

Commission, you're okay. Um, I want to say that, um, if you've listened to the planning commissioners and there, um, and Chuck's been a awesome chair for many, many years.

Oh, yeah.

But something's got gotten away from them as far as discussion. Um, what aas here have been to the planning commission meetings. and David Engel. I mean, there are it's not I don't know if it's appropriate to put some boundaries on them, but sometimes some of those members go on for hours and and it to me it's it's it it shouldn't be like that. You're there.

I'm there, but I'm not the chair. So, I mean, the chair ultimately has to has to be the one that reigns that in.

Yeah. I mean, Robert, I mean, you don't have unlimited hours of speaking time to ram your point through and frankly insult some of the staff because I've seen him doing that.

But, you know, each and every

doesn't have good ideas. Each and every one of us have things to say at times, but it may be Miss Jagger or Miss Starky that that'll say something that actually hits hits a little spot in my mind what I'm thinking that makes me want to talk where before I might not have wanted to speak at all.

So, but it it happens.

No. And then the dialogue can go from commission to commissioner. You go like two or three times. There's nothing wrong with that. And then sometimes just something else will come up and go.

Yeah. But I I I generally speak the way we respect each other going through other than the jumping in

is we I think we do it pretty well. I I really do and I and I'm very happy with that. But yeah, we just get make sure we get the attention of the chair. I think it's a better way to run the meeting. It makes it better for the staff, the clerk's office to keep recording who's who's speaking at what time. So they got to flip around like who's saying what.

That's the that's the point of it. So we can document the meeting,

right? So

Mr. starting

um when we're at like our big commission meeting uh with the three commissioners or if you're down at um I think it's the region regional planning council. No, um at the TMA meetings. So, so when we want to speak, we have a thing that goes like this, right? At when I ran TBarta and the TMA meeting. So, you can put your name tent up.

Yeah. and you get the attention or um at at those other meetings you press a red button and a light shows up. But all we have is to go like this.

I I don't think that's such a great I don't know. Is there a better way?

It's a small board. I mean again with the flexibility of turning around look looking for one side to the other side. I mean like I said sometimes you'll miss one to the other. You get my two hands over here and all of a sudden you're getting nowhere there. So I mean that can happen but it's a small board. It's not like a a giant room where the Roberts was really written for as

I might bring something that gets attention. I won't tell you what it is.

Oh, [laughter] I think you're going to be fine.

I think you're going to be fine.

Starting the show bullhorn.

Head on a swivel, right? [laughter] Head on a swivel.

Little horn. [laughter]

Oh, this is great. We have we get to pick on each other without getting mad.

So

like let Nikki help you actually. She put a hand up. There's one over there.

So am I amending the rules to this or not? I guess I'm

This is good. Don't you think that's good? I think we should put that in.

I don't know.

We don't We We have rules, but they're just There's nothing. This is not just for us. This is for future boards. What would we do with Robert's rules? Generally

that is Robert's rules.

I know. So what do we need to redo it for?

It's not strictly in accordance with Robert's rules because what Robert will say is that

sorry is that you're supposed to recognize the motion maker first and then go to competing sides of the debate which I didn't put that in here because I don't [clears throat] we don't always know who the competing sides of the debate is. So I just said motion maker first and then whoever raises their hand next. I thought that'd be easier to administer. So, it isn't strictly in accordance with Robert's rules, but it it's a slightly modified version of Robert's rules.

And and again, I don't think we need to get into that. I mean, I I think the way we do things, we call in who's pretty much hands up and that the conversations go and sometimes someone fires up something else that you didn't think of and go. So, I I mean, it's a small board. It's not designed for Robert's rules, but I don't think you need to get that specific to all this here. I think generally speaking, we run a meeting that's pretty good and everybody gets their hand in, everybody gets a dialogue and I got to say, especially this board, the dialogues that go through here, I think are phenomenal.

Is that for me,

Commissioner Oakley?

I think a good example of what we're talking about, how to run a meeting is actually happened today because I feel like it's gone very well today.

Yeah, we really do.

Yeah. Chairman,

and every chair is going to have a different management style.

Who's that next time? Well, you get a red light, [laughter] Commissioner Starky. Whatever Whatever she has laser pointers, [laughter] star it be Star Wars up here, you know.

Oh, wait a minute.

Yeah,

this would be the first time that comes over and sits me. I I I think I think this board has fantastic

long time

dialogue and I think this board has fantastic open dialogue and we get through whatever the issue is at hand fairly smoothly no matter the case and um it can get a little hectic sometimes but overall everything runs smoothly

I think so.

Commissioner Oakley Well, I'm just [laughter] I was just curious why every time um Miss Starky was a swing person ever every time a new com

I'm a swinger

chairman come she [laughter] she comes once it brings me back to 10 years ago when one of our first meetings that I had and I was here and Stark had been here and she came in someone had mentioned that she'd come in a little late a lot of times and so the first time she came in it was about 10 minutes after we started or may not have even started yet, but I leaned over to her and said, "Welcome to our 10:15 meeting." [laughter] So, but it was all in fun and it's all been good. So, good relationships.

Mr. Goldstein,

um, I don't really need to amend the rules until whenever you make a decision on the board meeting times, which is December. So if you all want to just think about if this is not an issue by December and you would don't want to amend the rules, we can just evaluate. I'm saying if you want to just defer this issue to whenever December comes around and we have that discussion again, I'm fine with that.

I think we should table.

It's up to the board though.

I have to count.

I'm just saying I'd like to not have to amend the rules multiple times. So I'd rather just

do it once in December when or whenever we're going to amend the meeting time. might be a good time to partner it with the meeting schedule. Anything that deals with board policy and meeting and and structure, any of those items, I think they should come as one package.

Yeah, we can we can certainly

I don't necessarily think we need to rule, but if it's the schedule or any other management policies that the board feels it needs to to discuss and if that if that due date's in December, right, county attorney? Well, that well that's what I'm hearing. They're going to bring back to you the meeting time discussion. So, my point is if you amend your meeting times, I have to amend the rules because your meeting time.

Yeah,

I'd have to amend the rules.

I'd like to I'd like to just do any rule changes all at the same time is my point.

So, I think David's just asking if you've got any more in mind, let me know. And then

think about this one or any other rule changes.

I'd like to just do it all whenever we do that larger change to the rules. that same conversation now.

Well, I wouldn't Mr. Chair [laughter]

I wouldn't call that a rule change. That's a clarification of a properly run meeting.

That's just

I don't know if we need to do that.

That's just Robert's rule.

That's just that's that's the way to run a meeting.

Well, now that we're going to be calling and being recognized, I think we're going to go a lot smoother anyway. It'll be good.

Do you have to stand up when you want to be recognized or you What do you do?

I'm standing to stretch. [laughter]

No, we have commissioner items.

I'm sure the chair will stay here.

All right. So, we're done with this.

Yeah.

All right. Let's move on. Commissioner items. Commissioner,

I have not.

I've enjoyed the meeting today. Very good.

All right. Commissioner W.

Yes. One thing. So, [clears throat] the 10 with the ten of budget 101 start date in instruction. And I've talked the cat administrator and county attorney about this. I think we need to you know we're a $2.4 billion organization and this board has uh you know essentially two direct employees, county administrator and county attorney. We have a new county attorney and you know hopefully to see you know some great progress moving forward and streamlining everything that needs done within the county attorney's office. I think I'd like this board to consider having annual performance reviews in a more in a formal fashion for the county administrator and the county attorney and develop something in in um maybe in Q but make it make it an actual policy so no matter who's on the board that the administrator and the and the attorney have a have a formal annual review process and then as we figure out what we're measuring for the performance performance reviews, give each department time, top three things, type five things that we're measuring off of. Um, to go through the reviews and then with their compensation packages and that sort of thing. So, organization this size, I [clears throat] think it'd be appropriate for this board to actually have a more formal process and it be codified in in rule that we we do that. So, I bring that up to see what everybody thinks. We used to

Comm.

We used to do that. Um, but I haven't done a performance in a decade.

That's we did it at uh Tampa Bay Water did that.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Same on you,

Chair. Point of order.

Yeah.

Are we going to follow these rules or [laughter] not? I just want to know.

What are we going to do?

We're just going to talk to [laughter] you.

He's hidden behind set. [laughter] Use your right in me. Easy to smash mand me to move me [laughter] move me back. But the water management district when I was on the water governing board, there's an annual performance review process and a a form that the board each board member fills out, but it's done annually and it's and there's metrics tied to it, the executive director's raise or what have you. It's it's a very formal process and I feel that that we need to do this do this here especially as the county grows, government grows and you know it becomes a more uh corporate style professional organization and uh there's accountability on the elected body and there should be uh a formal accountability measure to its two designated uh hires.

Commissioner

um I want to say we did that in the school board as well.

Yeah. like so and it was very effective and I think it's a great idea so I'm all for it

and I'll agree too regional planning council does it so I think it's it's it's a nice easy measure if we can compare what the other counties do might make it easier rather than reinventing the wheel so I bring those back to us take a look at it anything else commission

that's it thank Mr. Stark

so on that same note I recall telling Mr. Feinstein that I was going to ding him in his review. So, we used to do it if he didn't hire more attorneys. So, I know we I know we used to do it, but we got away from him for whatever reason. I think we got went into the automatic rollovers, which we shouldn't be doing. All right. Um so Spectrum, our friends at Spectrum asked me to participate in a TV show um that dealt with a land remembered and um our involvement in it and and um so I hope you all know this is Kathleen Tomco, one of the producers. I can't remember her name right now.

Josie Tomco's mom.

No, no, the other one.

Oh, her.

No, that's Kathleen. But what's her name?

I forgot her name.

I can't remember her name either. She's she is a longtime producer. She lives in Panelis County, I think. So, we've had a show going on Spectrum and um you can just Google it. It it's um people see it all the time and call me or or ping me that they're they're watching it on Spectrum and uh so that's nice. We're getting a little coverage there. Um then, um uh it's not there's nothing here, but the um gentleman who heads up the Rails to Trails I don't I don't know. See, I don't know if I'm supposed to follow my pictures or my paper. I'll follow my pictures and see what happens. Um, uh, Commissioner Weightman and I, uh, both attended the John Hopkins milestone moment. They got a humongous donation from, um, a family. I can't remember the name now. Um, starts with a G. They um, their charity is to donate to children's hospitals. And we have joined,

I think it's five or six other top children's hospitals in the country and sort of a a group that are all um all have been donated by this family. They started the company called Paycheck and um so $40 million going to our hospital chapel. I think it's their largest donation ever and um so it was nice to be there. Um, and this is uh during the FAC conference in Jacksonville. Commissioner um Jagger and I are there. Uh, we toured their um automated uh Oh, they got it with the thing right in front on on the top. People mover, whatever that is. We toured their um facilities and uh this is a an authority. So, it has taxing authority, but it's also funded by federal and local grants. They're apparently have a little bit of financial issue, which came out after our meeting, but it's pretty cool. These are these are autonomous vehicles, but they do have someone writing in the front seat. Um, and there's a lot of construction going on in downtown Jacksonville, so it's affected their writership. But this circulates all around downtown and it's it's free for young people and older people. And then it you can get a sliding scale of a monthly ticket or something. But um the the one up on the top is an interesting study and how not to do something is because they built this giant people mover thing and now that company's out of business and it's so proprietary um with the way that system is on that one with that one company. So they're trying to figure out what to do on their people mover that moves people downtown. Um let's see. So what else what else went on in fact? Oh yeah. So, we had a pro some forums on property tax and um also Axon did one on on for some a AI stuff. But let me tell you that the one that was on uh land use was interesting and I don't really understand this but we need to pay attention is that um the the vice president Lenar was there and in charge of their government relations and then we had a couple senator for county commissioners who are former senators up there and the the industry is lobbying for land use decisions to go to a magistrate. So then we won't even have to have those uh nighttime meetings because they won't be decided by the elected people. They'll decide decided by a judge. And um Ralph, were you in that meeting when they were saying that? So um this is apparently going to come up in this session

that they move across the state that land use decisions. Do I have that right? Is it all land use decisions?

It was land use and um a judge or a magistrate.

Yeah. To a magistrate. So, um, that was really something.

That's greedy. That's greedy. Due process taken away.

The, um, the the gentleman from Lonard did talk about a story I figured out with St. Lucy County where they had worked for three years on a project. It was 3,000 acres. I think that's what it was. And I don't remember how many homes. They had the zoning and they had the underlying comp plan amendment, but they were doing an MPU, so they had to go through a process

and they had it all approved and then, you know, red shirt showed up and some of the commissioners who were running for election um called them up and said, "I can't vote for this now. I'm afraid I won't be reelected." And so they were very very upset. They I I understand they spent a lot of money. It was already they had everything they really needed. I don't maybe they were just changing a little bit of the matrix which is why they're going to MPU. Um apparently in within those three years this county approved a BIES and a BIES and a Super Walmart on the same intersection that this neighborhood needed to go through. and then the people who were complaining about the tra what the traffic was going to bring and they were there in the process before the bies and the super [clears throat] but those guys as the LAR guy said did not have to go through a comp plan amendment change because they already had the zoning there for what they wanted so I don't know we have to be careful that we follow follow the law that was a big discussion that that um you you know if if it's in your comp plan and it's in your zoning, you have you have to follow that. You can't be messing around with uh development. So that's and that's where one one county does something and then we have unintended consequences for the whole state. All right. Um I was inter interviewed by this student, Lillian. She's St. Pete College student. She's doing a a piece uh a paper on ebikes. So, and I think she interviewed some other staff. So, looking forward to her her report on how to help regulate ebikes. Um, to honor, you know, we we voted on this a while ago. I'm just bringing it back to you that um the the county parks want to change the name as well. Um, so this is what they have suggested. Map call district park at Starky Ranch. The reason why is apparently there's a lot of confusion between Starky Park and Starky Ranch District Park and even our own staff is sending and doing things and going to the wrong place. We see it a lot in tournaments. So they asked our family if we minded if if it that wasn't called Starky Ranch District Park, but we went to the full name change and we we agreed. So this is what the sign will look like. Um and u we will have a dedication ceremony. If you remember he passed away very young from pancreat pancreatic cancer. So um I wanted to bring to your attention that the tree there's a tree giveaway going on. Um it's taking place October 10th at it's at Cruz Lake Park, JB Starky Wilderness Park and with Luchi River Park. They're doing it differently this time. There's a lottery selection. You know, last time they they like doubled or tripled the trees and they ran out of them like it was like crazy. Like crazy. So, they're doing a lottery. You have to sign up. Um there's red cedar, red maple, magnolia, and dahoon holly. And these trees are being funded by the um uh tree mitigation trust fund. Um, last last

week I was shopping up at Ridge and Little and um I I drove by Chesco Middle and Chesco Elementary, which I think is your district.

Is that right, Jack? Is that

Yeah. And um I noticed all these parents trying to go pick up their kids from school, a lot of walkers, but there is no sidewalk on the north side. And that's where that a lot of the they're coming from the north side to get across the street to get their kids. And there was a poor guy. I watched him going and then I watched him coming. He is in a wheelchair, an electric wheelchair trying to navigate the grass on the north side of Ridge to get to a crossing place where he could get over. When I saw him coming back, he was with his kids on the sidewalk, but he was going to have to come back and go on the grass on Ridge Road. So, I would love it if we could put that in um for the state, you know, whatever that Yeah. Look,

I did I did

there's no sidewalk on the north side.

I did talk to it stops.

I think I talked to you, Mike, about the we talked about the cones that were there and what we could replace because parents were cutting onto the grass and we were talking about how much it would cost to put a sidewalk.

I mean, it's mindboggling. The only sidewalk that's there is right in front of Dixie Bell.

Yeah. So, I'd love to help those families out. That was disturbing to watch.

Okay, that's it for me. Oh, no. I'm sorry. I I gave I gave you this bold here. I got to hear this.

You know, we do want to stress before the next meeting, right?

What when do we start?

5:15.

Okay. Um, this is what I talked to you about.

U, this was this was with uh this is the group that we that we met. Um, so I don't really know. They said we were the first ones in and they're concerned about this. So, is this are they wanting us to not advocate for the capped Medicare? Is that what this means to you?

Yeah, I I I started reading it and to me it conflicts. So, I want to talk to some people in the industry first to really kind of learn what it is that they're advocating and bring that back to us as part of our federal platform because when I read it, the first one, the 6% tax, that's kind of what we're doing with the direct payment provider program. So, do they want to get away from that? And then I have questions over who where's that 6% levied? I have a number of questions. So, I'd like to talk to some industry folks. Okay. On those three options before we bring it forward perhaps even as part of your federal platform, but make sure there's no conflicts there.

Yeah. I really um wanted to understand what they're asking of us and wanted you to see this. They're making a push in the state and I really didn't know what it was they were looking for, but they said we were the first ones to sign on before. So, I don't know. All right, I'm done.

All right, Mr. Jagger.

Okay, so the only thing I have is our public [snorts] my public safety update. So, I'll start with the let's see, fire rescue stats. This is for the last 30 days. Total calls were 8,926, motor vehicle accidents 344, structure fires 25, and special ops calls 149. Those are huge numbers. Um, it'll be interesting when the census comes back to see actually how large our county has grown. And for the sheriff's office, it is over the last two weeks, they have responded to 13,700 calls for service. These calls for service include a deputy involved shooting where a shield saved the lives of two deputies, numerous school threats, and missing people. And there is an update on the uh school threats. So, they recently arrested a student um because he was making these false threats. So when when they make a threat like that, they have to take every threat serious and it could take three hours to clear the building. So these one, the kids get the students get frustrated because they get upset like we have to sit in here for three hours. They don't know if it's real. And um the sheriff's office does does a great job clearing the buildings, but um thankfully they arrested the the kid who who did that because it takes a lot of class time away from the students and a lot of resources for law enforcement. Um because they literally for the Riveridge Middle and High School, they have to go to every single door to clear it before they can release those students to make sure the building's safe. So um that is all I have.

Okay. How do you administer? Three things. First, I want to thank thank the team, especially Tony Stilo, Stilo and Sarah Sukram. Uh they teamed up with Life Church's food pantry in Spring Hill and served over 725 households uh for the Farm Share program. So, that's a pretty pretty good thing. Secondly, I want to give kudos to um our our public safety folks, our fire our fire guys, specifically Brian Spooner, uh Jess Walker, Chad Carver, and Jared Kelly. They were part of a deployed unit that went to North Texas to help fight wildfires, notably the Ross fire and the Bug Beach fire. And during that two-e deployment, uh they supported line construction, exposure protection, water supply operations, and tactical adjustments based on the incident management team direction. Again, it's just another example of the professionalism and the expertise that our team has and and and attracts the talent that we do that we can actually afford to go and and support. We came at the we came at the request of FDM. They they asked for us and uh they answered the call. So very very happy, very very proud of them. Uh thirdly, I wanted to just make sure I was clear on um this idea of town halls for amendment three. I've I've I've sent you an email and and attorney Goldstein also kind of opined on just some general concerns on a fine line between educating and advocacy. And so I I just I want to ask the board, you know, we can we can I I I can always put together a very neutral presentation at a town hall kind of event. Uh which is what the majority direction appeared to be at the time, but town halls can go places where maybe you did not intend. We've seen that in other places. And I just want to ask the board if they want to consider or think about alternative approaches to education that could perhaps mitigate mitigate that risk. Static websites are are one thing when we go to live presentations that that's a different it's a different thing. And so county attorney had some concerns after I was thinking about it. I've got some concerns too. So I just want to ask the board is there any any additional direction on that change of direction thoughts on the matter? Um I agree with I agree with you. Um I'm not a fan of the town halls. Um things that I've gone to recently with the temperature of of the country. There's been a lot of um things pop up. So um I I would never want to put county staff in that position. And um me personally, I'm for putting information on the website and things like that. And if people have [cough] questions, they can reach out. That's just my opinion.

M Sh,

when I um asked everybody at FAC, it wasn't real scientific the way I did it. I would have liked to have gotten more responses to see what other counties are doing. I I will tell you that the the public relations person they hired and the um um person in charge of this at fact uh when I said got a little contentious I heard at the Largo town hall they said we love that it's earned media it's fine the city of Largo did absolutely nothing wrong so that was they liked the idea of getting media to to hear it. I I have another one tomorrow night. Amy will be there with my leaders from the Trinity the um what I the um holiday area, but um you know, I'm not going to [clears throat] if no one else wants us to do it, that's fine. Um but I don't think there's anything wrong with having the public learn about our budget personally. I think the town hall is a good idea. I'm a little fearful as far as the feedback, the dialogue. Um, but I do think they need to know what the budget would mean if it went through. And I think especially now that we know amendment one, everyone familiar with amendment one?

Yep.

All right. So, they got reserves. They max out. They want to go make it part of the constitution where it's mandatory to put more reserves in. Now, part of the reason all of our budgets have gone up is because we put reserves in place. So, they're saying we don't want you to go have reserves and be financially strong, but we're going to get stronger and then we can go fill back fill what needs to be backfilled. Um, and I think if the public actually got wind of even both of those right now, they would say, well, why are they saying they're spending too much money and you guys have too much money and now you only have too much money, but you want to go spend more money?

Yeah. I mean, it's like ridiculous to to the situation they're putting us in, but they're [snorts] taking the opposite approach to make them financially more viable to take care of problems that may happen after this thing passes. It's to me, I think people are just going to get frustrated. And I think it's okay to share the information one way or the other, but I think even if you just did one town hall and say, "Look, because of everything, maybe we don't have input back. We're not going to respond back because we don't want to put opinions out there. We're just going to show you what the facts are and we're going to know.

I I just want to be clear what what Commissioner Starky is is doing with her. Bear in mind, you as elected officials in your capacity have a lot more flexibility than myself or my my team when they go out because they are paid government employees. The advocacy is is it's it's certainly different. And so, you know, for example, if if um you know, Amy comes out to one of your events, she's she's strictly there presenting the information. You're moderating a session with your constituents. And that's that's a different that's a different story from education and advocacy. When we do a town hall that is sponsored by Pasco County and we're saying that it's a Pasco County sponsored event. You guys, you may be there, you may not be there, you may be two of you may be there, but it it becomes a Pasco County paid event. And I think that was sort of the impetus of where David and I had the concerns about paid staff and a fine line between advocacy and education. You saw that in the Largo. There was accusations that staff were advocating versus educating. And I get great probably a lot of great media coverage. And of course, who wouldn't who wouldn't like that? I don't know what the impact to staff or what what the ramifications were internally on that. That's my concern. I'm not suggesting that we don't support staff would clearly support any sort of town hall that you and your individual commission aspect would want to support 100%. I'm just saying that a county sponsored one starts to walk that line that we were concerned about. So what if we tried this? What if you put something together as the presentation and then we could actually take that, put it on the screen, show it to people as it's this is what staff says. staff doesn't even have to come out and then a commissioner can have their own dialogue with whoever.

I'm all for if you want materials, we have those ready for you. We can provide that 100%.

I think maybe I don't know if you want to do a slideshow or just a video, but

slides would certainly be faster and easier.

Okay.

All right. Mr. Ster,

you were um I thought we talked about staff or someone going out to the Rotary clubs, etc. Did that happen?

Well, no. That's kind of part of this is how aggressive did we want and then we ended up landing on on workshops or I'm sorry these town halls and that would be the same question is is do you do you want staff to do that? I mean I haven't been invited. I mean that's one thing uh versus actively pinging that's that's the that's the question here.

Uh you know what I'm wondering if we ask the chambers to sponsor a budget night then it's not the county doing it. Well, to be clear, even if they're sponsoring, if staff is going there and you're paying staff to go there, it still implicates the statute if they're advocating.

No, no, no. Not that not to talk about amendment three to talk about our budget and [clears throat] where the money goes. I I tell you the my my first group in Trinity Odessa, they were fascinated and loved it and thanked me and um as a matter of fact, I had some people that had to leave that meeting in the middle of her presentation. They're coming tomorrow night because they wanted to to learn more about how we do our budget because they're reading stuff online and it's not true.

Do you have that taped?

No.

Do you have social media where we share it? No, I don't do social.

Don't share.

So, David, what if we

I hate social

went there and just

did the presentation about the budget and then filmed it and then made it available to you.

I mean, Amy just really gave a great budget presentation just now, high level on our budget. I mean,

if it's similar to what we heard from her today about the budget, that has nothing to do with amendment three,

right? That's what she did at my meeting. Okay.

Where the statute gets implicated is if you start showing the effects of amendment three on our budget and then you get questions about that and then if Amy responds to those questions, somebody might argue she's advocating against amendment three or or I mean I also wouldn't necessarily have a problem if if it was a static presentation at these town halls where you're just presenting the budget. Even if it was the information on our website about amendment three, that's also permissible. Where you [snorts] get into a problem is when you open it up to dialogue because the second you open up open it up to dialogue and they're asking staff questions, staff's going to feel like they need to respond to those questions, it may be hard for them to you're putting staff on the spot to have to respond to a question in a way that is not advocacy. So, if they left right after the presentation and it's under the commissioner to field the questions from there, is that easier or better or is there a problem?

I think that's less of a problem. Yes. If the commissioner is going to do all of the

Let me ask Wait, wait, wait. I'm sorry. I'm

If if if she makes presentation and someone says, "Okay, what happens if your budget's cut by 30%." Why is that advocating? That's education. She's not saying if it's a good idea or not.

Well, I think it depends on if she's opining that a a certain department or depart

I raised my hand jumping in [laughter] the the um if if if she's opining on what services that the board would cut, she's not author I'm I'm not even authorized to really opine on that. That's the decision of the majority of this body to decide. You know, this body could decide to raise taxes. this body could decide to shift funds. It could you could do a hundred different things. So, I I I mean, I think we've done a pretty good job of presenting the budget. We present here's the here's the shortfall and then you connect the dots. Uh that that's kind of what it what it's been. I I where I where I get squirly is when we start getting into the Q&A and the h the the hypotheticals that that becomes a problem. But um can't you can't someone just say we we are not allowed to advocate. We can only

um you know so we we're showing you where our money is and and how it's divided up and the percentage that's going to law enforcement percentage for fire whatever the unfunded mandates. This is a great opportunity because we'll get a lot of people to come learn about our budget.

So we can we can certainly do that. But the I I do think that the very definition of a town hall implies a public feedback loop.

Well, call call it what you want. Budget budget meeting.

Budget presentation.

That's two.

I don't know. You guys don't like it? No,

you don't have to go. I know you're

My position hasn't my position hasn't hasn't

changed. last time I the impetus, you know, our budget hearings tonight at 5:15. If we were going to do this, it should have been done when we start this process 3 [clears throat] months ago, four months ago.

I mean, I would argue that it's been a very public process to begin with. [snorts] Now, I know that people don't may or may not pay attention

behind this is for people to share their opinion on on three. I don't think that's that's right. Oh, now that no, my my impetus is for them to learn where their money goes.

Mr. Ro,

Three days. It's full 38.

Well, we can continue to support in your individual capacity if you would like presentations. We will certainly continue to do that. Thank you.

You could invite them to your Rotary or [clears throat] chamber jade city or whatever. Um, I did not I did not get to mention this. I'm going to pass this out again.

Oh. Oh, you're not done.

Not done.

We were supposed to update these and we never did.

Sorry.

It's been a year.

You have these? I keep these in my

Mr. Madam cler.

I don't have anything.

I'm going to bring up something brought up.

Okay.

All right. So, I'll go my my committee reports. Um, so November 4th, Newport Rishi Rotary

Oh, yeah. It's got a uh an event for uh veterans that we've done for the past eight 10 years. It's

been a while.

A long time. And we take veterans first time in. We give a nice plaque, etc. There's a form we can fill out. Nikki and I both have him. Uh and we honor the veterans, have a nice lunch for him. There's the flyer that's right there. And uh

we will be bringing Fritz. Fritz is 101 years old. And by the way, Kathy, I want to give you a shout out for the team.

So Fritz is the gentleman that had a little bit of water in. We kind of cleaned out his house. Uh we had the Better Futures group come forward. We had our own group come forward with the veterans and uh they came in, they talked with him, got his history, and found out that he should have been paid a lot more money. Uh gave him a check for some behind. I'm not going to mention any numbers. And then even his pension has now gone higher. So he's living much more comfortably. Oh, that's awesome.

And for the veterans team,

what a great job they did. There's a picture of Fitz right there with his daughter. was awesome.

Um, but that team just really took care of him and he was like him and his brother was passed away at 98 years old. They were living together sharing the bills and all of a sudden now he's all taking all the bills and what your veterans group did was phenomenal. And you know, great things are happening there. And I tell you, there's another veterans group too that we were working with um with Chuck Lane. Uh these people had their home taken down. Um they were told to take it down. hindsight maybe they didn't need to. We just worked it through and they just got the keys to the house last week. The stzingers they were at one of the one of the meetings we had and just like you know it felt so bad for them but they are now in a brand new modular home elevated up in great shape and they are absolutely thrilled. So our team Chuck and all was did a phenomenal thing there. And then I made a little tip um to the hope services group. Has everyone been there? Anyone been everyone been there?

Yeah. I'd say first time I've been there. I don't know if someone mentioned to me to go there, right? Okay.

So, yeah, not my district, but um I tell you they are working all over the region. Uh a phenomenal group and you know,

it's not your district.

No, it's on 41.

This one's on 41, I think.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, it's way up there.

So, I mean, Congress has helped them acknowledge them for several different things they've done, different people that have founded it. the uh neighborhood news has done stuff with uh Wesley Chapel, the Laker, a lot of a lot of activity to what they've done in the area and it's been phenomenal. And one of their activities they do is they'll train people for like construction work. So plumbers, they're going to get let's say carpenters, which is really needed. They'll take some people that maybe the job skill can help them do a a supermarket job. They teach them how to work that, how to work the scanners, how to go through uh room rooms as far as cleaning rooms for for hotels. They show them how to do all that type of work. Uh this one here is in the construction part. Keep flipping through. There's a couple of things. They give them certifications on these trainings. Now, the great thing about certifications that they're going to get here, it puts them into a very highpaying job right off the bat and fills needs like we know we need across the board. So, there's a construction thing I'll set up and donate. There's a mini kitchen that goes in there, too. They're now actually get bought the place up in Hudson off 52 and 19, the old uh credit union building. They're now building a larger kitchen, larger facilities. They're going to work with the nurses to help them train as well. So, what they've done, there's some robotic stuff that they're they're going through. It's pretty cool. Um, so all they're doing is they're training our people to high-end jobs. And the reason they elevated their thing, it wasn't just like a like a you know, day job type thing. They give them a skill that can pay him very well like an AM skills does for manufacturing they just do it for other things as well. But it's a great great group and David Engel whatever we can do to to work with these people they are helping train and maybe even Chuck Lane can help too. Just a phenomenal group that was out there.

Commissioner um I went to them a couple years ago and and I do know this is the one on 41. Yeah.

Um, if you travel further north, there's another one and it's Hope Youth Ranch, I think it's called.

Yes.

And and they also do workforce training for special needs people.

There's there are uh there's a few very special groups in our county that [cough] I'm going to be putting on a national call.

Um, and and and Vincent House is also doing workforce [clears throat and cough] training for mental ill people with mental illness. So, it's wonderful.

Yeah, it is. All right. All right. So, we're going to break till 5:15.

Where's the lady? Where's the head lady at the I can't remember her name.

Huh? [snorts]

Yeah. Yeah, she's great.

Hey, I don't like picking on