Pasco Board of County Commissioners Workshop - Stormwater

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Our Guest today or Swift Mud staff uh Brian Armstrong is here with his team um I thank them for coming this morning after a holiday weekend to to be here with us to they're going to they're going to go last this morning they're going to walk you through um some of the things that that they do um on storm water management um Brian will Brian will give you um a few minutes on that but what we're going to do here this morning um public work staff is going to walk you through a quick presentation then we're going to um we're going to turn it over to other staff here within the county Mark Bellis is here he's going to walk you through his sustainability office um Andy FAA is is here he's going to talk you through um some of the the flood insurance um process and of course David Allen is here with David Engel and they have some slides that they're going to show you as well so again there's our participants and then our agenda for Public Works give you a quick overview of storm water and Watershed U management um what the contributors are to flooding what we do in public works for storm water management talk about our enforcement Authority what exactly we do in public works and then I'll just going to touch real quick on the Hurricanes the the 2024 hurricane season so it all starts at rain right we know we're in Florida we have we have uh 50 inches of rain approximately uh on average rainfall hits the roofs hits streets hits grass ends up moving throughout the system as we know Florida is very flat but it does move and it ends up in some water body one thing that's occurred over time over the past 30 years or so improvements in storage in conveyance and water quality so a lot of that water ends up in storm water ponds or in other storm Water Management Systems partly to control flooding but also to improve water quality this is a map of Pasco County and what you'll see here are all our watersheds uh broken down and you could see some of the trouble spots on there it's a little bit hard to read up there I was hoping to look a little better but you could see Hickory Hills up near D city um south of that is the Silver Oaks area by Zephyr Hills and then further west the have the airon cut off area over um in center of over by conon 41 when you say Watershed are you calling that is that a basin essentially how did you divide that so wherever the water where the rain hits the ground it's that Watershed is where that water stays and has to discharge so those waterways that are within that watered that you see any drop of water that hits in that in that delineated area has to drain through that water system I'd love a copy of that sure never seen that map before on the Swift Mud thought i' heard zepher Hills in EN closed Basin right parts of Zephyr Hills are in closed base yeah yep exactly and then this next slide is just a picture of the 100-year flood plane um and what I'm showing you here everything you see in blue is delineated as a 100-year flood plan so many areas

throughout our County are are vulnerable to flooding did you give us a hard copy of this I will get you a hard copy ASAP all right contributed to flooding heavy rainfall it all starts with rain if you don't have heavy rainfall you're not going to have flooding essentially unless well we'll talk about one other area where you can get flooding without rainfall but like I mentioned 50 inches of rainfall um that's about our average and we're all Floridians now we know that's an average of extremes right you can have 30 Ines one year and you could have 80 inches another right so it's usually never 50 um storm surge that's the one you could get you could get flooded without any rainfall through storm surge we all saw that this year with Helen um closed basins commissioner Oakley just mentioned we do have many closed basins throughout the county uh Zep Hills we learned a lot of lessons we'll close basins this year and we're in in dat City and and we're still learning those lessons um the pre-storm regulations many many development many developments in Tempe area Pasco County were built before there was any regulations in place so they just built the communities and didn't necessarily uhoh w Welcome to our world thank you world so they didn't necessarily um have any way to convey the water store the water move the water throughout the community um I can tell you what's rest on that slide is um infrastructure right so infrastructure gets put in place but not all infrastructure um gets maintained so you have to make make sure you have a proactive infrastructure program um to to keep that stuff working the way it needs to and then there's there's infrastructure on public lands right which the county maintains and there's also infrastructure on private communities right so we have to make sure that we're both that everything is being maintained properly right so our infrastructure as well as the private infrastructure well I'm glad I remembered that so uh and just to just to show you a big picture you know our strategy is to minimize and Abate flooding you you can eliminate all flooding but our our main strategy in public works is to is to minimize and Abate flooding and our tax our tactics to do that um storm water maintenance as I mentioned we have a very proactive storm water maintenance program um which means we send our op staff out routinely to go out and make sure that our infrastructure is maintained properly and if it's not we send out teams to fix it and update it or replace it um our investment in our infrastructure uh we this stuff comes before the board all the time you know we we're always sending stuff to the board for approval um whether it's for a covert program or for um large large um uh maintenance operations or for new equipment or for new staff so we're always we're always coming to the board for additional resources to make sure that we're investing properly in our infrastructure and the board has done

amazing work with that over the years uh we work with our partner here with the water man Management District on our watershed management plans um that helps us delineate those those watersheds that you saw and it also helps us model um any development that may occur in those watersheds we review um offsite impact so that's something that our team does when a new development comes in for um approval they send it over to us to take a look at it and make sure that um we're working with their engineer of record to ensure that there's not going to be offside impacts our Capital Improvement um oh commission you just bring up a question when you're looking at new developments and are coming in I've I've seen lately they build up a product that's coming in for town homes or something I know it's in zeper Hills County property is at a certain level they come in and build that property that new for those town homes and all they build it up 5 ft which entirely leaves that property of the county in a hole in a bowl and it flooded this time but that new property they're coming in they're way above that but are they is our property well below it's not developed right but with all the rain we had during that period in time the water built up and came out of their retention P right into that bowl and it flooded those homes in there so somehow and we we find that a lot even throughout the county a new project comes in next to another they won't have any issue because they're building their land up say 3 feet or 4 feet the property has been there all this time before hadn't had any issue but now this property's built up all that water runs around that and comes into this lower property and creates a problem so I mean I think you'll find out all over the county that we're having that issue I think we're going to we're going to get into um you know the development side as well as the uh the regulations and I think we'll be able to touch on what what's happening in those types of situations right thanks commissioner um as I was mentioned in our Capital um Improvement plan um we we are um implementing projects annual I'll show you a couple of success stories on on some of those storm water projects that we've completed some that we're working on but not only are they to help minimize flooding impacts but um we are incorporating into those projects and the board has asked us about this are we are we improving water quality with those projects as well so we're trying to make sure you know look we learned our lessons this year with the storm I'll talk a little bit about that um we know that we have issues and hotspots that are being identified through our master plan that we're going to be trying to improve the flooding but then we also know that we should be improving water quality in those areas as well and then the last is the storm water master plan and I I'll talk I'll talk about that in a few minutes so real quick again storm water maintenance um

can't can't eliminate flooding right our goal is to Abate flooding and and I wanted to mention here real importantly um we have a proactive process in operations to make sure that we are getting out and addressing 70% our goal is 70% proactive so what I mean by that is we are getting our guys out there we're tving um all of our pipes we're cleaning out all our storm drains we're making sure our swells are maintained we want to make sure that we're on top of that we have a regulatory requirement of about of of 10% to make sure we're hitting 10% of our infrastructure every year but we try to well exceed that to make sure that we're we're keeping our infrastructure um at the highest possible level we can now of course do we have do we have reactive times when a when a pipe breaks um we get called out the middle of the night yes that's going to happen but again I want to mention our covert replacement program uh this board has invested a lot of money into that covert replacement program and our team um has gone out and made a huge difference in the community think of some of the areas if you think back that used to flood uh really bad on the west side of the County Center County um even on the Eastern side many of those areas have been have been addressed through a COV replacement program um and that's a testament to to to the board's investment um in our in our team and allowing us to get out there and and get those fixed and Jason if I could add to that that the Public Works team has done that within the existing storm water assessment so they've reallocated dollars into the proper areas of Maintenance to ensure a lot of those historically flooded areas aren't really flooding anymore during or at least when they should they should be flooding thanks Mike very good all right so our master plan I mentioned um we're we're hopeful um that this thing will get done a little early but you know we we are we're I don't want to overpromise anything um but we are we are um on track to have it done August 2025 and the uh master plan will provide uh several key things for us right one is a look at all the current conditions throughout throughout all of our infrastructure and throughout um the county um Identify some of these trouble spots and the reason I put that there is because there's many trouble spots now that are on our minds that we've all we' all familiar with now for at least the past year right and you know we many of the board members go way back and there's many other ones that you you have on your mind but this year in particular um there's several that really came up so we wanted to make sure and Mike pushed me on this to make sure that we were incorporating the Lessons Learned From This Storm season into our um into our master plan you it's it's ripe it's right now that Master plan's on top of us we can't just finish it be like well the timing wasn't right so we made sure we're working with our consultant our third party team our team of Engineers to ensure that we um we're incorp all those Lessons

Learned was that your last slide no unfortunately okay I'm going to talk to theer no after the meeting about our techn there's a component there's a component that's on order currently for that okay this happens to us in our board meetings welcome to your world yes yall don't know it we're back we're back no harm all right where was I yeah so um coming to the presentation a key a key thing I wanted to I wanted to drive home about the master plan is we are going to end up with a list of many projects but most importantly 15 of our most critical projects ranked by our team and our third party consultant that are going to incorporate these Lessons Learned as well as all the other areas throughout our our County that we are going to address as quickly as possible we're going to get a an estimate of the costs of those projects and then how do we fund them right so we know we know what projects we know what the cost and then how are we actually going to fund these things so they're also going to work with our third party or fourth party um uh consultant to look at a um a rate study right so how do how do we can we fund them in year one or do we need a 20-year funding period so in other words do we need to go out for Lending for these projects so well can we use any of the HUD money for this yes okay yes and we're looking at that absolutely all right it's back no it's well I hope my staff gave it to me but oh you got a you got a print out yeah I well they need it for everybody you do just just to keep it rolling um Tex I would say that we you know we have several successful capital projects that we've been working on um and those those you're probably probably familiar with some of those um Iron bark commissioner Mariano is is familiar with that's a a recently successful project that we've completed um on the over on the east side we just did the New River Project which was a um um an effort to get in and get a lot of debris improve conveyance um which also will improve flow and water quality throughout that section of the river um everybody knows the Maggie Valley Project it's not done but we are looking at that project and um all right it's back so um the good thing about that project is we've had some direction from the board um internally staff is looking at options on how to make those how to make that project work I just want to throw into the middle of the table the discussion on 404 permitting if um if anybody's not aware the 404 permitting process has delayed some of our projects so at is that what what is it maybe the president will fix it I was going to put my arm I was going to put my hand on them but I I figured uh so the Army Corps of engineer yeah yeah thank you oh they got it back as of right now several of our projects that have any impacts to Wetlands perceived impacts to Wetlands on the coast especially have been held up with the with the 404 permitting process so we're working through it we have um pre-application meetings set up um and

we're going to keep trying to move forward we're not just sitting back saying oh I guess we're not going to get it done we're going to keep trying to move those projects forward um and commissioner starky you mentioned um the HUD money some of the projects that we have in design phase like Sea Pines a Fe Drive and green key some of those projects may be good candidates for HUD uh dollars in fact as the board knows we met with the federal government um a few weeks ago and then took them on a tour of the area on the west side of on the west side of the county so we we also plan on having another meeting for them to bring them over to the center and the east side of the County as well I like to say um I just to talk to you but I did talk to Brian already talk to Branford I think it's going to be important that we get a letter together for the president and who ever up there in DC to say we need to relief from this 404 permit and I think if we have Swift Mud working with us to put a joint letter together may carry some weight to make an impact up there maybe we can make an appearance when we go up to that's kind of what I'm thinking yeah we'll work on that sir we have uh staff here we've uh we've heard it we've heard your request on that and we'll we'll make that Happ okay so I'm winding down here I know thankfully but um I just wanted to show you really quick our enforcement Authority in public works is specifically related to the National pollutant discharge elimination system our NPD everybody knows about right we we have a we have bmps that we we look at and bmps are best manag practices right essentially we're looking at elicit discharges so if anybody's taking a hose off their property and sending it somewhere else or they're dumping a tanker truck or there any type of impacts to our storm water system we can step in and say hey you're not allowed to do that uh illegal dumping any illegal dumping anything ends up in the right away we can enforce if it's on private property we can work with our code enforcement team to make sure that those those are also getting addressed and then on site we have our erosion and sediment control um team so they're going to look at are you bringing are you are your soap fences up are you dragging any you know sediment and dirt into communities um and then you know we'll look at any any other related to the onsite development through those bmps and then the Hurricanes everybody knows we had we had three we had three storms this year everybody kind of forgets about Debbie but Debbie was part of a very wet event that that led up to our very wet summer and then led us into Helen and into Milton uh rainfall 80 in in 2024 the wetest on record at Tampa Airport that's a that's a pretty amazing thing when you think about it that it was 80 inches of rain which was actually the wetest and then in both sides of the county um on the east side and the west side we saw 75 to 76 inches of rain and those those were records as well and those were

measured at rain stations um over in Z Hills area and then Al also in in Trinity so we had we had quite a bit of of rain um this slide that that's that's coming up here in a second but I could speak to it um if you look at the the graphs just for October right the rainfall data for October here I'll show you the rainfall data for October was 20 to 30 Ines of rain for Pasco County which is about and that's just October right that's 4 to 500% higher than we we receive on average so it's quite a bit quite a bit of rainfall for just the month of month of October so and then you look if you closely at that map on the left side you could see blue on the east side of the county which is 20 inches or more of rainfall 5 to 600% of the rainfall for October so this is this is actual rain gauge data um that that showed up on the Noah site so this is uh say 600 a reason why we had some uh significant flooding in some of those areas and the last thing I want to show you is just a series of really quick um Rivers staging Maps each one of these either hit a record exceeded a record for a major period of time or stayed above a major flood stage for an extended period of time so here you see the an clo bounc it up against a record Cypress Creek exceeded the record and stayed above that stage with Luchi Contin to Crest over the period of weeks as we know so this doesn't even tell the whole story and then last is the Hillsboro which is seated a record as well so you could see if you if you connect this back to my Watershed map that these things these Rivers being at extreme major flood stage or exceeding records well it takes them a really long time to move that water throughout the system throughout that watered all the way down to either Tampa Bay or to the Gulf of Mexico so these these Rivers being at these high stages um just exacerbated the problem over time so with that I'll either open up for questions for me if that's the pleasure of the board or I'll turn it over to our next presenter okay uh Comm o um with Luchi the first time I've been there my entire life first time I've ever seen Luchi come up to 301 and under 301 during this phase of the flooding and that did we get a picture we showed a hard picture a while ago of the 100 gear flood plane in water set up did we get a picture of that in comparison for the one in 500 gear that we've had during those storms to show a difference in that map in 500 years so I know one of the things that we had done commissioner is uh we had um commissioned aerial flights and photography over the county immediately following Milton and part of the rationale for that too uh at least when I was talking with emergency management team members is let's let's see how this Compares and so yeah we' we've we've collected that data I mean it tracks with the hundred-year floods but to your point it's it went beyond that so we're sharing that data with parties in order to learn and and and to you know develop

better tools for predicting that and and part of that fact is that there's a big difference in the two MH and and a lot of things got affected because we we only plan storm War at all for the 100-year plan so look what happened to us in this year when it went expanded that I think for some way or other we need to change the way we develop these properties going forward that we take care of that extra war that might fall on us at some given time you never know when it is I know there's an expense of that but I think we need to look at that so we don't create problem as we continue develop and we're not creating ourselves a worse problem down the road so look at that well I think it's an excellent segue uh commissioner into uh planning and developments presentation talking about development conditions and you know so before I bring David angle up did did anyone have any other questions we seg seg way away um with swift might change in Direction a little bit with now doing look find finding water sources Etc I think there's an opportunity in the table actually look at doing both now when I look at the Basin of special concern that's around the Hickory Hills area you've got a bunch of empty land that's there that sits up really high probably clay based like commiss rley right okay clay so it holds the water which makes it really tough I think there's an opportunity especially in that little area there and not that area it's a pretty big size area if you built a reservoir there you've got all the water that flows down to the north that really get stuck in tank Lake getting out to with Luchi because that's where we got some pumps going to try to relieve some of that pressure you could hold a lot of water it would I think take these big storm events and put us in in good position and create extra water if we we had a drought to to tap into that later on um I'm not sure about to the to the even further south yet but I think that whole East Side we should be taking a look at because they struggled so much they had a couple of rain bands from Debbie Etc and other storm events were going on that even in the summertime before hurricane say at its peak I would try to drive around there on GPS I would drive drive one way what GPS would take me and then roads blocked drive another way blocked so even before the storms really hit uh helan and Milton they were in trouble and the storm just made it worse so I think it kind of can work in line with what Swip wants to do at the same time create cre great storm water when we look at Tampe water the reservoir that storm and heline when that came in was able to take so much of the water and fill up the reservoir real quick and of just going out to the gulf and whatever it made a big difference with t Bay water so I think there's opportunities there there may be elsewhere in in the region too but I'd like to really take a look strong look at that because I There's an opportunity there um I have a question and I don't you know if you think it's better to

wait till after your presentation um or I'm not sure who's who would answer this one but um after one of the Hurricanes a few years ago we got a Federal grant to clean out a portion of the ankot river to help for qu right here that is CCH okay my blue light is back on have you got me now no' so what's going on with our it I just know there is a component at least it's related to the video the sounds kind of a new one to me that they've had a part on order that's that's supposed to come in to alleviate that after the last board meeting they accelerated that so and while we're waiting for the that to be fixed the smaller storm water uh is the next presentation and they're all out [Applause] there yes okay so um so I I went and watched the crews working on the river pulling out the trees it was some beautiful wood coming out of the river um but that's the only time I've ever seen us do a river cleaning out and I don't even know what it's called so I wonder if there's if it's advantageous to work on conveyance type projects yes I mean we have three rivers right just Tre trees and P trees they pull trees out of the river yeah Andrew you want to speak on that yeah I think it might have been through hmgp after the storm that was probably part of the when we got our award and that was probably one of the projects that we put in and got approved I think wait thank you that's good that's normal so my question is so when we so when rain started first calling you know we had examples of of different cdds calling in hey we're flooding and then we send out emergency crews to fix the problem and find that the blockage isn't on the Cy and it's on the cdds and it was clear after the storm that we need continuity communication a plan between systems so what's our our strategy to communicate with these cdds and these CDD boards to understand the health of their storm water systems if they need help improving I mean they have budgetary authority just like this board does but if our systems our systems are all interconnected if they have a failure on their end is compounding so what do we what's our plan to communicate with all the neighboring cdds and storm water systems that are not within our control and HOA and HOAs to make sure that all the systems are flowing properly and in good working order so I know in in some of the worst case situations our Ops teams through their proactive maintenance they can find issues even though if they're not necessarily in our infrastructure they know if there's a bottleneck they know if there's an issue um with drainage um and what we've tried to do was work with those communities pre pre hurricane season pre-storm season pre-summer um to to alert them of the issue um and alert them of hey there are some issues within the community um it's your responsibility to get them fixed um we have worked with them in the past we we

do check with our our legal team as well right there's she's over my shoulder I could feel her um but we we do we do try to work with our communities if there's a regional issue um and if there's there's a need that can impact County residents um we we have worked with these communities in the past to to help them with um restoring the conveyance that the proper conveyance and storage that that they should have um if there are impacts Regional impacts so those are Case by case we work internally with our with our legal team um on on making sure we do that now moving forward how do we work with all of them how do we Comm communicate with all of them I think that's that's something we need to take on um and make sure that they're they're looking at their infrastructure they're looking at their maintenance and they're they're abiding by their permit um that they have so that there's not going to be any flooding onsite and then any offsite impacts as well what youve described as a reactive measure right we don't know there's a problem until there's a problem so I'd like to within this plan find a a however we do it a better way to communicate with these folks to require them either give you know I think they have to give updates to the Water Management District for us but we all know what's going on especially leading into a rainy season because when things happen in these communities they call us they don't call their CDD board and then we call you and then you're putting your crews out potentially way and then the report comes back it's not necessarily County's responsibility so you know I just think that we there's room for improvement there and um I don't know what the plan is but I think it's important that we come up with um following up on what you were speaking of um I know you have a lot of territory and if I recall you had two gentlemen covering all your counties on following up on on uh HOAs and their storm water ponds John was it John he retired he retired yeah so um and I've had him speak at various meetings in the past where I brought HOA leaders together to remind them of the importance of their um storm water pond maintenance and others can you can you tell us again what the requirements are so the requirements just changed in the new Erp rule that was ratified last year it requires more frequent reporting how they are to report that it also requires uh H how you're going to pay for that M operation of Maintenance long term we have more than two people you're just familiar with the two that we s there in Pas that's what John used to say it's only two of us yeah for Pas but we have 16 I thought it was for all the counties no we have 16 other counties they have a yeah a plateful so yeah so there so with the new er P rule that was ratified they they have to now turn in those inspections or required to do those inspections more frequently report that back to us now when you see John and those folks there's usually a problem

it's a compliance issue something has failed in their system okay usually due to lack of Maintenance so when we go out on a call like that we usually file it with compliance if they comply and and fix the issues immediately we're good if not we then pursue other action through our board to address those issues um lot lot of times you know when when a a new community is built and it gets turned over to the residents they have no idea of of these requirements so um how how do they get notified is that in most districts have a district engineer if okay I'm not talking about CDD District they all have to have a c but if if it's an if it's not a CDD District we have a lot of little communities that have smaller ponds how how do they if most PE most of them most HOAs if you read their documents it's in there okay so I know a lot of people will go through the home buying process and look at a thousand documents and just sign but this information about the storm water system is in those Beed documents held uh at the clerk's and I know in my neighborhood aista we just did an assessment because we all had to we had to do a lot of work on our storm water system um I think Jack was next and then I'll go back to you thank you um couple projects one we we're working together on is the um northern outfall and over in Port Richie which will take a lot of storm water out it gets it out to the gulf which is great at the same time there's another opportunity the southern outfall which we had used that didn't get funded didn't quite have the same numbers because the other one was going through but we got a tremendous amount of research done if we do that project coming up and maybe the funding source we can use it with the cdb gdr because if it gets a storm water back out to the gulf it's going to free up everything behind it uh you improve water quality a lot of other other things I think it's something that we should take a look at but to touch on uh what we were just talking about as far as H HOAs commissioner starky and I sat with d Swift Mud Army cor of Engineers for a long time about Trinity what we found was the the waterways you get out there if you get it out there um it would it flow but the conveyance wasn't working there was one property the reserve in HOA that had the cover that was probably like 8 to 10 ft wide was down like a foot Swift was amazing going in there and getting to go clean that thing out the community right before it or right before it was oakd they keep all their things clean the water flows they never flood because the water can get out behind it though in the whole Trinity thing there's a way that water was supposed to flow but the Army Core won't let us get it I'm thinking this may be another thing that we can try to work with now the Trump's in to go free up that rule because the hway would love to get it done maybe we even partner with them to get it done but if that water could flow you could take a whole community that just suffered some major flooding this this whole summer and get that water out instead of having pumps

out place we'd like to get it out ahead of a large rain event but we can't open the vents the gates we're restricted in opening the gates when when we all know it it isn't flooding anyone Downstream uh who is Jason is that your department yes yes so we we have a um a protocol for each gate um that we follow some of those Gates and commissioner C you know this as well as anybody so I don't need to tell you but you know some of those gates are meant to hold water back for environmental um purposes um natural system purposes and and then during storms we declare you know um an emergency um we we do what we kind of need to do um in those situations and we open the gates um we communicate that with our with our partners when we are doing that and we do ensure through our engineering team that we are not impacting Downstream um Folks by having those gates open so we we kind of we kind of walk walk through steps and then we we have those gates open throughout the storm to allow the water to to move I just think they should we should have more leeway before the storm um you can drive down Trinity Boulevard right now and look at the ponds that I think are associated with uh Heritage Springs and they are full they are always to the top and um but I I can tell you when a big storm is coming I get calls like crazy from Thousand Oaks residents please please please open the gates the good news on that one um is we are working with a consultant uh currently to address the current protocol the current um process of how to operate that gate so once we have our stuff in line with our consultant then we can go back to the Water Management District and say hey here's what we found through our third party consultant and um we want to redo the protocol on this that's what we're in the middle of doing that you know we don't want to we don't want to cause any Downstream ill effects we we get that but um if I could yeah I don't I don't I don't know if we may be following their protocol but do we need to help with their protocol okay go ahead commission I I know I didn't finish I was I was it before you I haven't my thing it but but but literally as you say the downstream effect Oak Ridge is Downstream they don't flood no matter what happens water goes and the reserve now goes good so I don't think it's a downstream issue with those Gates those things should be open but the key is going to be to make the water really flow when we need it to is to get that stuff in Thousand Oaks into the side of it before Oakridge right before the CV before the CVS to clear that conveyance out if we can clear that conveyance out that will take care of most everything you've got down there we think anyway we're not Engineers but we think um commissioner Oakley um just to add on Thousand Oaks years ago when I was Swift M chairman and going through all the issues all your HOAs over around in that area and Thousand Oaks they had all these waterways for retention fonds and all but they never did M and they're supposed to do their own maintenance and

somehow and of course Swift Mud gave them the advice and who to contact or clean some of those lily pads and all that kind of thing up uh in some of those areas but they were always late and keeping those clean somehow if there's a way we can keep them doing what they're supposed to do on their side it makes your job easier it sounds like that's what you've done is I think that's been an issue well it's been back that time it was recognized by the legislature by us and that's what called for the changes in the Erp rules but the obligation is still up to the entity who holds the storm water permit to do that so what it do make them move it reinforced the uh the reporting requirements and it also made them identify costs with certain systems so that they have the money available to continue to do these things I have a question um because we're trying to build a database on HOAs and CDD you know districts in the county so where do you get your information from they report it to us now get the list from you instead of trying to figure out how to well anywhere we've issued a permit those permits are available to the public so HOA boards change they may not have a management company so you send it to they send us the report they're required to send us and then when they don't it flags do you ever have issues trying to find out who's in charge of a certain neighborhood it's part of the process I'm sure I mean I would be very I'm going to talk with you offline to figure this out because we've been trying to build a database and maybe you're the yeah we can put I've brought a ton of Staff here today to get into the weeds if you would like that we want communicate this stuff as well um and we hold you know at least in my district which is where a lot of flooding happens I have quarterly meetings with HOA leaders and I think this is really important information to get out agree so where we have a problem is they are required to file with Department of Department of State Division of Corporations and file that papor sometimes they do not update their information might it to the state but that's where they are required to set up theira through the corporation I'm just saying you know what I'm talking about yeah because his office has also been trying to put together this database okay um anything else on this one okay so we will move on and he's going to you're going to give a report Brian are you yes we're saving the best for last okay so we may I'm sure we'll have more questions for you all right um now we have um I think we have pag go ahead pag Department yes plan Department David Engle morning David Engel planning and economic development director um that is not our slideshow it is it is I know one up thank you okay sorry about that we have a Triad defense against storm waterer negative storm water impacts here in the state county and

region uh the Triad is is the planning and development department plus building and Construction Services manage the on-site development regarding storm water and other types of infrastructure regulation the second level is uh Jason Michels group Public Works that looks at the systemic impacts of storm water discharges on their infrastructure here in the county and thirdly there's our state Partners at Swift mud and fot which we collaborate and work together strategically on a regular basis back in 20122 the county initiated a collaboration um effort to have Public Works Planning and Development work together not to overlap each other's jurisdiction in a coordinated fashion and we also had input from Swift Mud and uh and it became a a way that we had process development going forward Bo in February of 23 we started instituting our coordinated strategy here in our department I'm great sorry go two two-handed thing I need to PE page three please thank I I'm sorry about that so um our life is governed by chapter um chapter 900 of the Land Development code the Land Development code focuses on a number of things in that chapter number one it focuses on site design grading uh building locations relative to storm water management infrastructure and then it leads out out into the overall development into a storm water management and retention system there's three types of review intensities in planning and development first is a compliance review to make sure all of the administrative requirements are included in a Land Development application second phase is mass grading reviews where we look at uh the the macro site grad Ing and drainage um once we disturb a piece of property and lastly the full development review which is the actual site plan and this is the most comprehensive and detailed review that we undertake the goal of chapter 900 is to ensure that the post-development does not cause any irreparable harm or unintended consequences to the to the drainage basin um and also the adjacent properties and uh for projects delineated in the in the flood plane management area we have multiple certified flood plane managers at planning and development and building a construction services that work on phase mitigation during the construction process the BCC May adopt a more stringent special design standard for any drainage basin here in the county there are primarily two different types of storm water basins one is the open Basin that's a basin that inter connects with the with adjacent basins and we require that uh the the capacity to hold back storm water aligns to the 25-year storm event then we have um pre-development flow rates um that's the rate that water leaves a site and we want to make sure that the pre- and post

development up to the 25e storm is accommodated the the second type of basin is closed basins these are isolated basins that don't have any type of contiguous was discharge opportunity so our storm water management and mitigation policies are much more stringent up to the 100 Year storm event we also in particular have basins of special concern there's three of them now designated in the county if you went to chapter 900 you'd see the uh storm waterer areas delineated in the Ordinance one is East Zephyr Hills area Basin the second is uh tank Lake up in the Dade City area and we spoke about that today and thirdly it's Timber Oaks and that's centered around Jasmine and little and it uh it also involves the Magnolia area so those are the three concerns and we perhaps may have additional areas of concern from the storm water mapping that we had as a result of the the Hurricanes so um basically open basins um are are regulated to the 255e storm event closed Basin the 100 and then anything in and around um flood plane areas the phasing of infrastructure has to be concurrent with the development of the property we just don't wait until the storm till the storm water catches up with the development so it's phased and staged and it's managed very closely from one by one of our certified uh flood plane managers and that's my presentation sorry for the choppiness is there any questions commissioner Marano commissioner Oakley you want to yeah David you've talked about it and we've talked about it with staff as well uh when I look at as commissioner Oakley pointed out sometimes you get development builds 5et up the guy decided down the bottom they're going to get hit uh we had that one in kler Estates that came up that we had this property that was originally designed for 10 uh 10 one acre lots all the way around um big properties and then it got all condensed in and we put an access road what does that mean condensed in the gave more density that there like 160 homes so the more density coming in everything's elevated up I mean elevated up with retaining walls Etc the retention Pond is in the bottom part it sit right next to a property where it sit in the bottom of that Basin right there and when that big storm comes in and all that rain water goes in as it filters through the other ponds that are there those people at the bottom are in trouble plus the fact that we took an easement and let them Drive in I worry about what we have in place is it enough uh do we allow these developments to come where you actually going fill in a basement for a road which just going to like dissect it more and not that I necessarily want to go to the Basin of special concern requirements but we definitely need to step it up a bit uh to what we can do to protect the people from holding more water because even if you hold it in these storm events if you get a bigger storm they're done so there is a cost to going to a different you know 100 Year 200 year 300 year event

but I'm wondering um is the 100-year level has that ever been looked at and is that correct for today's rain events I mean is the 100 years still when was that when were those levels decided and did that need to shift some so you can imagine I've had an opportunity to discuss these counties with a lot of folks and the one thing I find most important is people do not understand 1 in 25 1 in 100 most people think that's a temporal thing you'll get a storm like this once every 100 years that's completely incorrect it's 1% it's a percentage right it is a so for instance when you design something to a one in 25e storm that means you have a 4% chance every year that that design will fail when you design something to a one in 100e storm that means you have a 1% chance every year that that system your road could fail that's pretty good pretty good odds so most people would take a 99% chance yeah but you're you you talk about the cost but has that number but has that that um what's the word has that shifted well I was going to say the is the 1% Storm still the 1% storm yes is it now the 5% stor so every time and you were talking it's it will move every time there's a storm we like these we have a team that will go out and document what we call high water levels that information is putting to the models to improve those models so yes that will change does it change significantly with each storm no it doesn't but how how often and is this the Army Corp that does this how often is that number adjusted to the new reality for example that Oaks we had had a drought uh and we had had a lot of pumping here and so the water table you know was down a lot and so that became the new normal and was it was able to reset right for Thousand Oaks that they could fill to a lower level because that was The New Normal the new level for them um and then we realized when the pumping stopped or got you know when we had Tampa Bay Water the the levels came back up and Thousand Oaks was just caught in that little time warp um so does the 100-year level need to be adjusted so let me explain to you how this all gets put together right we spend a lot of money on Basin management plans right and what would happen is we've taken all this data we've collected and we work with a cooperator the county we're in the middle of one another one right now for you folks and we do these Maps and we take all the data the most recent data we had so this would be incorporated into the new map and the map says at a 1 in 25e storm this is who would flood at a one in 100e storm this is who would at a 1 in 500 this is who would flood and we as the technical support that's one of our roles working with the county in building these Maps hand them back to you and your staff is charged to coming with you and saying what do you want to do do you want to build to a 1 in 100 at a 1% chance or do you want to build to a

1 in2 200 at a 0.5 or one in 500 at a 0.2% chance that this place is going to flood and mostly everybody say yeah let's build it to be super safe well if you go from one in 100 you know you're cutting your development down in half so if you got 50 homes now you're going to be able to build 25 right and you think okay why not well if you can only build homes you just doubled the price of homes in your community a road if you want to build a road to a one in 500e storm you're quadrupling the price of the cost of your road so there has to be a balance that decision is based on your communities the district here to provide the data to show you here's here's the options to what you want to build I got that but what I'm asking you is how often do you tweet does your data ever change every day we collect data every day so so it it every Year's amount of rainfall goes in and it adjusts we have the ability to adjust the model when do you when we change the maps is when the counties cities and municipalities come to us and say we we think we should do another water management or will approach them and say you may want to do another watershed management study so so the 25e uh flood event level say for the the surface of a road 15 years ago or 30 years ago is the same as it is today or it's it changed it's changed okay based on the data we've collected a comment commission Marano yeah so it I hear your point as far as it's going to shrink let's say your density between the storm when I look at what happens to the people beside it maybe they're not on a flood plane they weren't before the effect is there it may not increase the price of the housing so much but it may devalue the land that's not going to get sold because you can't get the density so it's not just one way it could be the other way depending how the negotiations go this the safer you want to be will be more costly yeah same with a reservoir you know I've yeah believe me I've got a lot of options where to put reservoirs and I can tell you 30 years in the business the best place to put a reservoir is the end of a river because that's where you have the most opportunity to fill it the most often even at the end of the rivers the bypass Canal the Hillsboro River the alif fire River Tampa Bay Water can't fill that every there's drought years right so when people talk to me hey why don't I put a Reservoir in East Pasco or well you're going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on infrastructure that you might fill once every 10 years or once every 50 years that is the kind of evaluation that folks put into in doing reservoirs and rivers it's a supply issue and a timing of how often that Supply is going to be available we we have that Reservoir where it's at right now we have land nearby and we're looking at it as a future water source but where we've got it right now if we build one next door to it we can collect a lot of water throughout the year based on the rainfall and when Debbie came along a lot of people didn't think about but zeph Hills got flooded it was only

12 in of rain but a lot of water started coming and we started filling up Reservoir with that water going down through Hillsboro and and different a you talking about the reservoir in Hillsboro yeah that's our 15.5 billion is full that came from zeph hills water so no no no Hillsboro River and all we collect water that goes into right I I was on the board when we built that thing yeah but I mean that we're looking at a project in the future of putting another Reservoir and we have the land available right near that Reservoir and that's an ideal place to put it if we had that Reservoir our second Reservoir there we would actually now with all the rainfall and all we got that came down to that area we could have filled another Reservoir yeah and and the question is how often so if if I'm in Mike's shoes or Jason's shoes I'm going to take all the data and and come to you at tell you this Reservoir is going to cost X and I'm going to be able to fill it with X this many times a decade or a year and you and you're going to make the responsible decision to decide if that is a good decision for your constituents it's a lot of money it's this storm this storm you you will hear and I've heard all over the district I've lived here so many years I've never seen this n water was never here well my folks tell me that the with Luchi where you're talking about hasn't looked like that since 1930 so if you weren't here in that is true you will have never seen a storm like this so that that is not uncommon but these decisions have to be based in the data that was collected right and the costs associated with that the district provides the data we provide the maps we provide the science the decision how to build it how safe you want to be is yours okay and then what's the I don't have um I don't I don't have a list of how we're we're proceeding so who is going after we'll we'll have Mark speak next but if we're done with David but I just use that okay I just I wish I had a list of do you have it or um um if if I may chair real quick and then I'll I so so to the River Point I I agree somehow you got to get the water to go and when I talk about that b Bas in a special concern area where water is actually to the north flows down through there's like one Pond there that actually gets magnificent when it gets full thank you sometimes it's low whatever so does hold Downstream from that is where I'm talking about where you can actually go where water does flow it does go to a point so it actually long as it flows that way but the other thing and I don't even know but if there's the with Luchi River half a mile outside is Banks if there's some way to put some type of bypass Canal to a reservoir so when it does hit a point like that it can take and collect in there it should be an easy flow easy go and if you can hold that water so we can use the Water Source later great but at least the the flood prevention part could be huge

again the data will support you know what the decision should be um the wuchi went about a mile outside its banks right so it was an extraordinary event that we haven't seen since 1930 I don't know the why we put reservoirs at the bottom of rivers because we have the most opportunity to capture water for water supply but if that event happened the last time we said seen levels like that was in 1930 the question is would I build a reservoir for something that happened in 1930 I don't know the answer could be yes it could be no until the data and the information is synthesized to make is it a good idea it's an idea one folks should look at but you know the technical side is the easiest part it's the it's the decision what to do next you know they say problems are emotional Solutions are Technical and and decisions are political and that's basically how each one of these things work out so um some of you may recall and I'm sorry Lisa is not here but she's she is on her way that um there was a plan to study holding back to ankl River and holding the water on the 4,000 Acres that the state bought to mitigate for the Sun Coast from our family and um the Army Corps took a good hard look at it and the the the end result was that the cost of building that system I don't remember what it was called um to hold back the water uh for that would have protect the Trinity area was so much more than just buying out the three or four houses that get water in the houses during a large Raid event um unfortunately and maybe there you know we I thought I think we did get some calls after the last storm um but but you know sometimes you have to look at um which one makes more sense before you go spend a lot of money and and I was in the helicopter with the Army Corps um Colonel flying around doing going down the anoat river and looking at all that and that and they did a big study and that's what they they came up with on that one so Brian were you around when when they did that one were you here been here since uh 1970 I thought so you weren't I think David was the head the head when it was a while ago but what I gather from what you said would we build for something that would happen like in the 30s now if we're not getting that kind of water it'd be better to choose something else because that's a lot of expense going in that's why I think the best position for a reservoir is very close to the one we already have because it's better than not you've got a lot more water falling through there that you can feel to Res Comm shley that that's going to capture water for a drought situation but that's not going to stop people's homes from flooding no right I understand but I'm talking about water issue Water Supplies too same so yeah you got to remember this was in an extra special event yeah oh it is that's right you had Debbie come and and fill everything right because if if you we flatter from Deb if you remember we were in a drought we we

had water restrictions all over the district for watering T Bay Waters Reservoir you know we were worried about how are we going to fill that one storm we fill a reservoir that is a mile long oh yeah once it's full they don't take any more water either so you you don't want to design a reservoir for an event CU you're going to fill it really quickly and people are still going to flood and they're going to say what happened yeah so it's just really a balance that has to be data driven in making these decisions and that's what you know we're trying to do is provide that data for for these decisions to be made yeah so be interesting I um uh office of strategy and sustainability is going next but I mean is there a way to help a closed Basin some of these basins in large rain events part that is cost effective part of what we were talking about is I was talking about water basically I I actually went from taking care of storm water War Supply but the fact of it is like tank Lake on the east side of the county more inside Drive I believe the opportunity of building one inside drive through that area behind the hospital in tank lake is an area that you could stop homes from being flooded in that area by building that road in and fixing the canal that goes on out to the river except when you have this kind of an event where that water from the river comes across 301 back in there that's the only issue that you have but that's I don't how many one 200 years you're there right now yeah about 1% chance of a 100e flood plane U thank you that's only 1% every year but that can happen every year more than once really please God nobody yes the so we do have a flood detention area we do have what you guys are talking how about a big area to store water to give you an idea most of you may be familiar if you travel from Pasco to Hillsboro mors Bridge Road right and everybody gets really excited when I use the flood detention area because I I shut down morb Road I put it underwater to store water in the hillsbor river flood detention area that was full and to give you an idea of the size of what we're talking about that's 26 square miles that I F with water in an event like this and I still have to shut down mors Bridge Road when you talk about these large events and large systems like the bypass now you're you're talking about 27 square miles you're talking about you know 10 12 billion doll investment to try and duplicate something like that yeah it's cheaper to buy the people out we've asked we've asked sorry we've asked the armor Corps to help us finish part of that project to take water the original Canal that was designed to take water off the lake the notas area we have that ask in we have an ask in to help uh finish about eight or nine projects for Pasco County that were identified in the watershed management plan we're asking um but just that that piece that Canal is 2.4

billion we would have to do the eminent domain it probably cost about a half a billion so big these big Solutions are huge for for flood events just to give you a perspective on on what that would look like as far as trying to capture flood events and what's so heartbreaking is so many of those people on the east side didn't have any flood insurance I mean that's just part there's so many on the West Side didn't have blood injur yeah oh couldn't afford it yeah all right um uh let the record reflect that uh commissioner joerger is here we've had fun at the dentist this morning right um did you have did you have something no I was actually if you want to take over introducing the speakers that's fine I was going to move you do yeah go yeah yeah so so uh Dr Bellis I think we've transitioned perfectly the uh the office of strategy and sustainability was established here by the board a year ago January and it's really to help the county catch up on on preparing itself for whatever chronic and acute stressors are going to occur today and also into the future both internally so we can continue to provide levels of service but also externally looking at all 740 square miles of the county so Brian it's interesting you you bring up the the large projects and and we're all familiar now with the the Far Rivers basins project from the late 60s and early 70s some of these adaptations cross the almost the entire County they're massive they're gigantic and probably wouldn't make sense to do today but one of the things we've learned in our group as we've been talking to the community and talking to uh our friends in the municipalities and various funders is that because of what happened in these storms as bad as it was we now know what we may not have known or had to model in the past we know what will happen under certain conditions so if we are not going to build adaptations to try to Abate certain areas because it doesn't make sense financially to do we can begin to educate people we can let them know how to get out of Harm's Way and what that looks like I think Brian you made made the the the with Luchi River was so far out of its banks if we even look at policy it looks like over time the um the setback for that River has gotten smaller and smaller just over time because they hadn't flooded so looking at those kind of things so part of what we're doing in our group too is we're looking at how to uh revisit projects that have been on the table for a while but but maybe ran into a roadblock might have been permitting might have been funding might have been whatever uh but pulling the right people to the table stakeholders the funders the Departments M municipalities to complete some of these big projects that we know difference Maggie Valley is a great example because you literally could put a park in there that becomes floodable if needed so there's a property there so we're we're talking to the various departments to see if we can make that

happen Sea Pines is another one the other piece that we're looking at too is making sure that we're all speaking the same language across the county across organizations and across funders we uh we are very happy that that Swift Mud is is uh working with us as we pull the core back in here to do some other assessments around the county to get a an idea of where do we stand now this was again back in the 1960s we probably have built over a lot of that and most of it's not dual but what where are we now and what makes sense to do we're also looking at the coastline we have USF coming in to do a an assessment of the entire Coastline brand new measurements brand new uh buoys off the coast so we get good information and then start looking at the projects that that make sense for us to do over time so that's really what what our office at OSS is is to do great um any questions for Dr fellis okay um and now we have um Andy yes yes ma'am I'm going to go ahead and stand up and and do this I prefer because I'm a walker and talker um basically there was some uh questions and concerns about um our nfip program and the CRS Community rating system and why is the county participating in it so I met one my team I sat with Eric Brighton Bach we had a conversation and I put together a little PowerPoint that shows the pros and cons of participating in the program so basically an overview um this program was created by Congress to mitigate future uh flood loss in the country uh they recognized that people were flooding out and they were finding out people did not have flood insurance um primary source of flood insurance coverage for Residential Properties in the United States provides access to government back affordable uh flood insurance policies so I'm going to touch off of that right there so day before yesterday I received an email that um as of right now when you give flood insurance you have to pay it UPF front done it's a lump sum FEMA is now working on the nfip program so it's going to become a monthly charge instead of the homeowner being dumped on all of it it's going to be broken down in month in the monthly payments um it an acts and enforces flood plane management regulations designed to minimize damage and losses due to flooding that's what I work with Jason's group for JP Murphy's group um we all work together on that um and it ensures Disaster Recovery funding is available the citizens after a qualifying flooding event so that ensures that people are going to get some kind of Aid whether it be individual assistance whether it be a small business loan um other programs that come through the county hmgp um FMA Swift Current uh all those programs that we can utilize to help the homeowner and business um all 67 counties in Florida participate in in the nfip program um I believe there's only nine little city municipalities that they jump in and jump out but all 67 counties do participate in this program um Paso County we joined at the

nfip in November of 1981 um the nfip has this CRS system um incentive program that's based into it um is for Community flood plane management activities that exceed the minimum nfip requirements and that's our ordinances and our other things that we do uh teaching education um notification all those things that go above the base of nfip we get extra points for and that's what brings our scores down um scores down you mean our rates down our down in the score so NFI and in the nfip CRS program you have a rating of 1 to n the lower that number is the better we off we are so we want last year as you know from a five to a four so that improved and gives a larger increase I mean decrease in the flood insurance it gives a percentage off um nfip communities that participate in the CRS can give reduced flood insurance premiums for property owners up to 45% right now we're sitting at the 25% level um we applied and opted in CRS back in December 13 in 1991 and again in October of 1992 uh Property Owners required to app Insurance then automatically started receiving a 5% discount on their premiums today we're up to 25% on the premiums and it results in about a $3.9 million savings to the C to the citizens we have a current rating as a five as I said we're working towards a four and I will tell you getting these scores lower and lower are are extremely difficult it's it's a point based system there's about probably about a 100 activities that could be done and to mitigate all these activities is extremely time consuming and long and takes the work of not only the board but the county and other departments within the county um 45% of the county is in a special flood Hazard Zone um by ACD um areas assessed to have a higher risk for flooding impacts that's our coastal areas that's anybody on the rivers and things like that uh Property Owners located in a special flood Hazard zone are required to purchase flood insurance if they have a mortgage from a friendly regulated or insurance insurance lender so they are forced to have that insurance Insurance um approximately 40% of pasco's NFI nfib flood insurance claims come from properties outside of the special flood Hazard area and that's the areas like we just dealt with Silver Oaks Hickory Hills all those closed Basin areas it behooves them to have flood insurance but as of right now we all know it's it's very expensive and people can't afford it I I thought if you weren't in a flood zone and you got flood insurance it was a lot less no my neighbor in NSA has it is $400 a year I I I do not know that answer for that yes ma'am I think sorry go ahead I think it's your covered if you have citizens you have to have flood citizen that's a federally regulated program correct um CRS program participation financially incentivized flood insurance for those not required to have it but

remain V vulnerable so it gives them that discount and I know when people look at their insurance bill and it says CRS discount account and it said $11 that's not the whole picture being painted that's just part of that's just a little CRS portion you're getting that 25% discount but what's going back to CRS is $11 of that money so you're still getting that 25% discount well that's misleading then it it's very yeah it's very hard to understand you're still getting the full amount uh okay so the consequences of nonar participation in the program uh nfip back flood insurance will not be renewed and then homeowners and special flood Hazard areas will be required to maintain flood insurance at the full rate then at the full rate and through private entities and whatever it may be and those are extremely limited and extremely expensive um Financial incentives for property owners outside the special flood Hazard area uh to obtain flood insurance will disappear they will not be able to find it they will not be able to get it impact of federal grants and Loans to Pasco no federal disaster assistant loans as as we better know as SBA no Federal Mortgage insurance in special flood Hazard areas being FHA VA farmers's home um no Fanny May Freddy Mack gnma purchases of mortgages in the secondary market for the special flood Hazard Area Properties uh we will not be entitled the hazard mitigation assistance no HMA FMA RFC or R srl grants um ineligible for fredal mitigation funding for acquisition or construction projects and special flood Hazard area that's including hmgp money and we've been awarded over 24 million between 2017 and 2021 and we just found out that we got the not notification of funding for Debbie from this last storm that Debbie at came through and the count is getting about $3.2 million in hmgp money for projects we still have not heard about Helen or Milton that's supposed to be in March and sometime so we're all waited with baited breath um is that new money yes no no mitigation funding for FMA FMA Swift Current um these programs rewarded a little under million dollars in projects between 2017 and 2021 what's FMA what's that stand for federal management area I don't remember Federal mitigation assistance a little birdie um so residents with houses and impacted by the storm surge during Hurricane Helen and Milton will not would not have received any kind of federal funding assistance and that's including SBA um today Pasco County residents have received a little over $120 million and individual assistance alone from Hurricane Milton and Helen so Public Assistance PA would only provide for the amount of damage that a policy claim would not have paid for so if County assets or infrastructure was damaged and we made a claim and say it was $90 million and our the insurance only covered 40 million we the federal feds would not cover the remaining money

we'd have to come out of of our own pockets for that repair can they cover it now yes um so nfip and CRS status it can be modified we can exit we can leave the program and seek to be reinstated at a later time however if we do that and we were to leave and then say go back in five years uh once we got reinstated back into the program any projects or Construction or anything built in a special uh flood Hazard area would have to be either a brought up to code to that current code then or be demolished and then we restart again so how like I said however if non-compliant development has occurred in the community map's FL special flood Hazard area during the time in the community with not participating in the program the community will be required to remedy all non-compliant development to the maximum extent possible prior to reinstatement into the program so it would it would hurt dramatically and with that I am done any questions yes because I know there was talk about maybe not participating in this plan which I think is fiscally scary so um any questions on on the insurance plan commissioner wait minut I do so what I'm hearing is the the program benefits the county body that the taxpayers pay for but the taxpayer themselves with the thousands of PE 3.9 million bucks is chump change you know that's nothing with the volume of people that we that we have and my my concern with being in this program so when it comes each individual person taxpayer in their property they're flooded out and if they're deemed their home is total and they take the payout from their insurance company but they gets the Minimus and then that because we're part of this program they can't rebuild their house even and it's going to cost them double or triple to rebuild their house because of these rules but they take a $250,000 pay whatever and they can remodel or rebuild their home for say 3 50 they find the Delta of 100 Grand to re to rebuild their house take they can't do that and this program prevents the way I understand it prevents that homeowner from rebuilding in a more Equitable and feasible way for those who may not have the means to do so so I'm I'm kind of understanding this as a double-edged sword all it benefits the county and its infrastructure plan which is taxpayers ultimately pay for the individual tax paying the property owner if if a storm event happens to them they're kind of on the short end of the stick the way I understand it financially because also the insurance cost and pay it doesn't cover inflationary measures either so the cost of drywall May cost double and triple so I'm having a hard time I see the I understand the pros and cons but I'm having a a hard time understanding if when you look at the individual resident component of being a part of this plan to helping someone rebuild their home or they just

ultimately sell a lot they a lot and to take a loss what's the decision here what's that worth and I understand you know our side what we're responsible for but we don't exist without our residents and our property owners a taxable value so I kind of like well do we take the hit and figure it out through different ways of taxing Authority that this government has to rebuild and it allows those residents to rebuild their home and staying in their home in a more Equitable feasible way or if we stay in this program that continues happens they take a massive loss they have to move their whole life because they can't afford to rebuild uh because it's it costs two or three times and they take whatever they can get out of their their property and and they move on so I don't necessarily like that but I'm trying to wrap my head around what all this means because there's two very different pieces to being a part of this yes sir I I I agree 100% but there are programs out there too that the residents can apply for to have their houses either bought out and Destroy and um demolished or B reconstruct and Elevate we have those programs that's the kicker with there if would not being a part of this and the government deems their home uninhabitable and you have to tear it out it can completely remes from their decision away from them their ability to make their insurance claim and whatever money they can find up to remodel their home the way that it is and for a lot of folks that might be the most economical way to get back into their home and own a piece of property within a 90y year storm event other than that their options for a lot of them are just to sell take whatever money they can get get out of it and who knows where they're going and then they're upside down on a very expensive property in a world that they may not even want to live in and that decision they make is because of this government's decision to participate in this program which has a direct economic impact to their life in a potentially negative way I I understand that that's something that I take very seriously and I'm trying the way what's the best decision here I understand all the consequences of exiting it but the taxpayers are going to fund this government anyway so and I think commissioner it's it's a combination right I mean you even look at mortgages and secondary markets there's still private investment right and I think participating in the program one of the good things that can happen at least for the individual and I understand where what you're saying for the individual is the existence of programs where we can put money back in you know if if if Jeff owns a property he's he's in a certain limited income bracket as as Andy points out that it opens up a stream of funding that allows his property to hopefully come into compliance be safer I mean the simple

fact of the matter is is that we do see um and you can look at this uh down down in Ian is that properties that are brought up to current codes properties that are out they they are fine they were absolutely fine and so really the the kicker is is how do we get individuals you know to to you know be incentivized to kick it up I understand government involvement in this but the private private loan markets are involved in this as well they they make investments in these people's properties by the simple virtue of giving them a loan um you know um and and that that that's all part of it I mean I you know we can have conversations on on greater good or what what is that um but but overall I think the program does sort of lift the entire County up uh versus um you know and sometimes that does it may not be what you want to do as an individual but uh sometimes it's it's the right thing to do and we at least bring resources to Bear to help those folks uh get there I'm not saying it works out for everybody the right way but um it's it's dicey and as we get more storms and as we get more more things these are these are conversations that they tough conversations to have in a lot of cases um and you know I I know I can't provide direct Solace to to your concerns I understand exactly what you're uh what what you're getting at there but there's there's more moving parts to it than what Pasco County can can play into it as well I would say now the SBA loan these people should take a look at that right because the SBA loan is up to 500,000 at 2% interest 2% and then you can actually definitely need to help them with that you can actually do your your reconstruction elevation whatever they're choosing to do and what their previous mortgage was they can wrap up into that loan as well there are many many programs out there and my biggest fear is me being an em director if this program was to go away we're going to lose Federal funding for infrastructure projects we're going to lose Federal funding Federal loans for homeowners to buy houses and and and and get insurance so I understand we got a 40% of the people in the special flood Hazard area but we also have 60 more per of the county that's going to lose all of that money and it's going to hurt more than anything it's going to do more damage than I think that it would do good and the cleanup cost well that that too as Andy points out the the the um Public Assistance I mean certainly that would have come we we're already at a $50 million bill for for storm cleanup so don't think of 3.9 you got to look at $50 million of cleaning so yes I mean they they would be re they hold that stick yeah but I can't imagine the FED leaving any well North Carolina's example they could leaving you just hanging out to drive but um commission Mariano the commissioner Jer when commissioner Waits I'm done okay uh Andy what was done with the 3 Milli 3.9 million what what kind of things were done I that goes into into the programs and us gets double lost my wording that goes to the

that goes to the insurance payer right that's in the it goes back to the yeah all right so let me ask this when we look at all the flooding that happened and I I can talk more to the coast more than Inland but I don't know that many more homes that had more than let's say full feet of water would you say that that would take about like 90 95% of the homes had less full feet or less of water in it I had two inches maybe Mr could probably answer that question here I'll bring it to you J Murphy director of Building Construction Services so we don't have a number based off of um you know foot if you will um of the 13,000 properties that we've inspected only 2,000 of are substan ually damaged the general rule that we follow is an Army Corps of Engineers rule is one foot of of water in a mobile home is substantially damaged three foot of water in a single family structure constitutes substantial damage so anything above those generally means for those structure types we're going to see more than that 49 50% of damage in a in a structure well you make that point but let's go back to Senate Manor when we had people initially get rated at over 49% once they had an appraisal done all of a sudden and most of those homes were under not all of them the back roads are a little bit higher with their head more than 4T but the ones in the front you know under 4T whatever a lot of those are getting rebuilt because they were still under 49% because of the appraisal correct all right so if it's 2% are those mobile homes yes yeah they're all manufactured homes so it's 2% that you figure is substantially damage so that's probably close to that number if we were going to look at and I and I look at sometimes we've raising these homes for $50 $300,000 they're 50 years old they got a base you're going to move them way up they got to go put an elevator in and you still get old hurricane buildings that say that are up there that aren't protected like the new ones are I'm not crazy about that move plus the expense I've talked to a gentleman who does mobile home raising all over the all over the nation and he can get to like I think 4,200 42 in for about $3,500 from mobile um if you you took every bit of mobiles that we saw and anyone that's up and down Senate Manor signal Cove Etc the trash that was out there The Collection that was done if they were just up 4T we would had probably one/ tenth or one5 I mean that one uh a small fraction of damage compared to what we went through um can we do mitigation to go take a look at doing the raising of these homes not only just the single family homes but also the mobile manufactured homes coming in yeah the current law states that the base flood elevation or the the um floor elev base floor elevation needs to be above the design flood stage so and one foot of freeboard right that's the design base flood elevation correct so let's say if that area had a base flood elevation of 4 foot um and you had your one footer

freeboard you get to a design flood elevation of 5 foot the bottom floor basically the the sub member of the flooring system would need to be above that 5 foot in order to be compliant with both the local ordinance as well as the federal law that's so those areas like four or5 ft above sea level you're talking about raising up at least 8T 9 ft yeah I mean we have some areas where the design flood elevation is 13 foot I'm sorry they shouldn't they we they got to get out of it all right but here but here's the thing if you the taxpayers all the time think about a mobile home that you not want to raise up I don't I want I don't want a mobile home let me finish I'm talking to everybody here so if you take that mobile home and you raise it up to above the base flat elevation now I don't know about anybody else in the room but I don't want to be in that structure during any wind or have my stuff in there any wind because it's much more vulnerable to that higher level with the wind up that up there that high maybe it's safer from the flood but I'm in danger same thing with a home that's that old that's been lifted up what what I think is better for us and for the those who want tear down and go they can funding they can make it work all of a sudden they got a home that they didn't have a note on and now they're paid off and now they're going to take on $400,000 worth of new house that they got to raise up they can't afford it anymore they got to go I get people want to stay in the neighborhoods I want to help them and I think if I had these flexibility to go raise things up about four to 5T now I don't need an elevator they can go up and for this storm event we'd have had minimal damage everywhere so I I understand the logic of the BF especially with the modern structure but if I'm trying to keep people in their homes which I think is what we want to do as well and they I know they want to stay in it what can we look at doing something like that I think what you're talking about is similar to the the conversation earlier in the workshop about the 100-year storm event right you're talking about can you mitigate how much risk can you mitigate ultimately if that we have another round of bad storms like we had that elevating at only 42 ft probably doesn't secure that structure but for most of the storms we've seen over the past 20 years it probably does and so I think what what you're suggesting is can we moderate the law in some way um to allow for that mitigation to exist understanding that you still have risk that is existing in the special flood Hazard area I think my answer to that is under the federal laws probably not particularly if we're going to be a member of nfip what about State I think say it's the same thing they basically all Mir each other so you can you can get rid of the additional fo the free board that's in the Flor building code now the additional foot of free

freeboard okay that used to be a local requirement so yeah that changed in the last in the in the eth Edition they added actually I think it it changed a few years before President Trump's probably getting rid of FEMA and some of these rules that are in place right now are just brutal and don't make a lot of sense I mean literally to put a mobile home up to above the base flood elevation you just so so vulnerable up there same thing with an old home but if I just want to give people a way to stay in their homes Etc and you know keep them where they want to be in the neighborhoods I mean the kids grow up there families grow up there Senate manwood we saw four generations three generations there all going in that they want to say they want to stay in their home let's try to maybe work with the feds to say let us go at least raise these up partially where I don't have to like I can absorb a lot more cost and probably take away all the all the $50 million worth of cleanup minimize that to next to nothing I have a question Mar point my concern is to exactly that this spard creating policies for one in 100e storm events that literally forces generational people out of homes homes that may be paid off they understand the risk they know where they live and it completely erods away their choice of where they want to live or you know whatever their circumstance is and that's government tell pushing them out and I think that's wrong so I don't know what the hybrid situation is here but I don't want to be on the side of making a decision that's going to you know force people out of their home because of you know commissioner joerger and I have a question did we ever find out if the county would tear down those mobile homes that they cannot go back into so let's say they it needs to be wiped away because at one point you said yes we could do that and then I heard from somebody else that we can't do it because it has a hitch but if it it once they move it if it falls apart like so can we move it for free and let's say they get some money for FEMA and they do want to stay in that community and raise it and put a different structure on it so there's a couple of programs that we think this that we could do this under however having some conversation to remove some of the additional obstacles is do we just as a county just fund some of these early demos because on the Vima PA or damage assessment or Dam debris clearing side um it it has to be a risk of of imminent failure you it has to be a public risk and that seems to be how you define that seems to be a sticking point so we've identified well look we think that removing these structures that are substantially damaged uh is in the best interest of the public it does allow people to to rebuild or put Place back uh in a way that it's it's either elevated or a different type of structure um I think where there's a program you can fund to do that and I think we have resources to be able to do

that so as of right now if like can we take someone's mobile home and demolish it if it's completely if you give me operations Authority yes otherwise if it's not at risk of being of basically falling and being a hazard to public the answer to that is it's not reimbursable okay and who determines if it's uh a an engineer of which we have one Us St as our deputy and that's free correct and then my second question was for for Andy when you were talking about the the loan so let's say somebody owes 300,000 on their house and their rate is 4 .3 now when they do the SBA loan to help rebuild up to 500 you're rolling that 300 are you getting it at the 2% rate that's a great deal yeah we need to educate our res it's it's it's hard to explain I'd have to sit down with pen and paper and show you how the program works um basic basically you can do your rebuild you know acquisition demolition get the loan and you're locked into it the only caveat is to it when you do that loan through SBA is that that house has to be maintained and it has to keep flood insurance on it for its duration even if if commissioner waitman moves out and commissioner Oakley moves in they still have to continue to carry that the home is paid for it can they self insur that I do not know I don't have that because right now if you own your home you can self-insure um but if you make a FEMA claim you then you have to carry flood insurance um and I want to reiterate that and you know Mr Stein cider and I just had a side sidebar legal term um if you don't live in a special flood Hazard area flood insurance is not that expensive it's like a couple hundred dollar $400 so I don't think people realize that $1,000 in home has well you're in a flood area you're on a river my my AA house is no my boat house is $3,000 we just got our new one I don't know maybe it's because we're at a certain height that it's not to me for me I know for other people might be but for me that's not so prohibited but for I know that my neighbor in aresa her she doesn't live in a flood zone but she feels comfortable carrying insurance it's $400 and she has a you know $800,000 house I don't know if you have any examples well in in the old days don't know what current standards are but if you were in a non-designated flood plane an X your flood insurance was and you chose to carry flood insurance anyway it was a relatively $500 it was a minimal payement if you're in a flood zone you're paying prevailing rate whether it's pre-firm or post firm and we're seeing a lot of in fact we just got the map R Vision last week MH um where zones are changing through with our with the construction and everything and they had this had a parcel I can't remember the exact address but it went from not being in the flood zone to being in the flood zone now so we're going to have that

Dynamic movement all the time um but I want to go back and reiterate one more time that the nfip the CRS program um even though commissioner says it does put a heartache on some people but in the big picture it benefits the county and the citizens because if we lose that money and the citizens got to start going to private lenders private insurers it's going to make it even more difficult for them to even get a loan now so that's my biggest right Fred Andy I guess just just to reiterate so you know what commissioner Mariano and commissioner waitman you know kind of talked about hybrid type things I mean if we were to do that currently under I mean we're essentially there's an audit there' be an audit from FEMA or something and we would I guess serve some time in the Penalty Box on on CRS and have our CRS rating removed or possibly removed from the ngf N NF what is it nfip national flood insurance program um is the only lever right now from a policy perspective is is participation e you're either in or you're out either in or out have communities gone or sought to have discussions with either FEMA or you know to to discuss rules and can there be some can there be some flexibility in that I've spoken with Hillsboro pelis Hernando and um pulk and they are all steadfast they all are remaining in the program um they see the there's too much benefit that outweighs but but but to the other to the other point you know the five foot versus you know maybe we can we can do better at three and because the theme here that that some of the commission are pointing out is is risk right there's there's cost there's benefit and there's risk um and and the rules are very hard set in bright lines have communities gone and spoken to not that I know of Sir commission Mariana um and what is it I think it's been the last like eight years they've raised their rate uh FEMA nfip's rates are raised about 10 20% a year I don't have the facts well they had a goal to get to I think a 25% increase and they did it over amount a number of years so so so they made it so so many people can't afford it right as we go through I would never propose we try to do this with Prem previous FEMA because they just you couldn't talk to them you still can't talk to them as far as changing stuff but right now with their possibly on the way out the door the way the the president's talking I think depending on what takes it over or how they modify it uh as they look at I think you see some changes I think if we could get a some data on the levels of flooding that we had was it be 3et 4 feet and what percentage would have been out of out of the would have been out of out of flood I mean I I know there's a one place on S the coov mobile home she's right on the canal right across the civic association that got fullt of water she got nothing in the house and just raise up that four feet so I know that would make a significant difference I want to get some data together we're

going to go to DC the end of this month right y coming up give us a chance to give some data to say here's the amount of homes if we had allowed people to raise up their to the 4 foot level here's the amount of flooding we anticipated to what would happen and just kind of let's give us something to go work with to try to put an impact on changing that because I know female won't let you do unless you go BF you can't even do anything I think there's better ground especially what's out there otherwise this is going to keep on going and going commission if I if I may I think that if if there is data to support what you're talking about you're probably better at attacking the maps and not the program so if actual condition is that those homes didn't get FL fled and there was 5 ft of water the maps may be wrong for that particular area and if you brought the flood protection elevation down okay you wouldn't you'd be able to look at that for G so instead of being 11 if we actually brought it down to the five the number should be that me that's a great idea we actually went down I don't I mean that's if the data supports it yeah but but but that's why they wanted everyone to report the data and I I don't think I did to mine to you guys of what it was at our houses right didn't you didn't you ask for that yeah we generally collect that information we also have it from water lines from when we did limited damage assessment yeah I'd love for you to do an assessment and see where that is compared to the FEMA level you know FEMA flood maps you know the 8 ft that's on or 9 ft or whatever it is that's on that that's on the maps is not necessarily from grade M it's from sea level sea level so it could be 3T above if you got that's that's an important point to to remember for storm surge um which is what affected the west side of the county now on the east side of the county you kind of have a inverted methodology where you have properties that had never got floated before right and all of a sudden with the river R floating we see significant changes in that so um I know that in pelis County uh some some while ago they did a lar overflight of the whole County to kind of reassess elevations throughout the whole County which did result in some properties coming out of uh velocity zones and some properties going in and that may be something we want to look at here too just to get a ground truthing of what that is and I don't know if that has been done here in now I'd like to do that and I'd also like to look at the Lim wall line because we have properties that are protected by barrier islands and Coes and everything but they put them in the limo uh and this is a new thing limited moderate wave action yeah oh my gosh four Engineers I have working on that um yeah so I'd like to see that um and then one other suggestion that our teams were working on is

evaluating from a point standpoint can we drop off the one year for substant accumulated for substantial damages yeah so how does that work because we know City of Newport Richie who's representative has a five-year cumulative I don't know what zephra Hills has do you know what you have no um we're onee cumulative who H where does that play into the rating system that plays in if you think of the nfip the CRS program the discount program is a part of the nfip and so that 25% that Chief FAA was talking about elements that we put into our local code and things on how we want to manage our flood plain risks is what drives that those points or CRS points so one of the way we get additional CRS points is by having a one-year cumulative now we can change that one-year cumulative some some communities have zeroe cumulative you go from one project to the next and so I'll tell you from personal experience some communities will even do you do one year you get reevaluated you get a new value you can use your brand new value at the close of that tourament is that what we do now we have a one year from uh date of issuance at the permit but you may submit a private appraisal to to change that value number you know to talk to the equation neighbor doing that yeah talk to the equation right is 49% of a higher number is still a higher number on the 49% side um but we do think in order to help folks not being in even worse situation next hurricane season dropping off the substantial damage cumulative totals may be something that we need to look at so we're doing the research on that too but I think that may be coming forward okay um commissioner wait and then commissioner is there a way thank you chair St to simplify the CRS rating and what a point is worth to quantify it obviously it obviously ties in to the what so does that help with yeah miss it does that help with like this so if citizens receive a 20 5% discount which is approximately 3.9 million all this whole formula seems to be intertwined right so like does this point system tie into the 3.9 million yes yes so again that's what I'm trying to tie it to so if if the residents only getting a total combined of 3.9 million no that no that's not true you got to add all the cost that we would have had to charge our residents I'm trying to identify there's obviously multiple different buckets okay this policy F so there are I I'll just put it to there is a schw of activities that are in the CRS system and it ranges from the board doing ordinance changes that get you maximize points or other activities up to including education how do we know how do we how do we educate the citizens on flood insurance um but Andy if if I could I mean I think the commissioner's point is trying to get to a point of diminishing returns here right there's there's lwh hanging fruit right to go from a nine to an eight to a seven pretty easy to go from a seven to a six little more

gymnastics to go from a five to a four I'm told it's kind of paperwork but for the for the county to go from a four to a three let is Extreme it's yeah that would include ordinance changes yeah that would include a a lot of moving factors so is there pieces to this crazy formula that takes accountants and lawyers and whoever else to drive up this return to the direct homeowner to a higher value the 3.9 million that I'm have to get back with you sir I I I have to get with you on that I have no idea grade of the CRS so as you change a grade is a additional 5% yeah so pelis went down to 40% discount on their homeowner on their flood insurance so more people can afford it but there's substantial damage number is is much less right it's it's 30% 30% if you're home is 30% damage then you have to rebuild the idea and I I understand it is to get more and more people out of Harm's Way and therefore um uh the citizens you know in America pay less into FEMA right to to keep paying over and over again for repetitive loss I think that's fiscally respons responsible it does Put Some People In Harm's Way um financially and I'd like to know how we can help those people more I have seen in in the other counties where they're giving the counties or the cities are giving loans or grants to Residents and where is that money coming from and is that what the HUD money is that something we can do with this HUD money yeah and I think we're as we we look at the HUD the HUD money and we're we're getting we'll be setting up individual meetings with I think we have them already coming where we're going to be looking exploring ideas and and talking with HUD so we can I think these are all again we would not have gotten the HUD money had we not really even participated in this so I I think again that's another tool in the toolbox uh to your point on you know saving federal tax dollars is is really perhaps you know one goal of the program that you know we can look at um you know to to provide some relief to to those affected but there's certain restrictions again there's always rules and restrictions that come with those dollars and let's not say that FEMA is going away I think the idea is that they're going to maybe they're talking about bringing it to the state level rather than the federal level but we're still going to have expenses and bills and rules and um commissioner Mariana did you have your one point okay so I mean you know talking about people In Harm's Way people decided they want to live on the water around just go for instance and maybe along a river whatever it maybe that's their choice still America Utopia is okay the best thing for us to do would not have there but if they want to be there who are we to say they shouldn't be there but then they shouldn't be getting any federal money but let them build the place where they want and they won't even need the federal money so I want to work and Jee I really love that idea you brought up let's go look at what we just went

through because this storm event it should be maybe we can get that bf number changed to make people or allow people when go where they want to live because a lot of people I mean I tell watching the community come together to re build it was just amazing and I would think that they'd be so much better off if they were up that extra full foot and didn't have anything to do other than getting their cars out of there getting themselves out of there when the storm came in and then go back in the next day um commiss Mariano are are they on um septic or are they on County good County Water County Water yeah because I have alers Parkway which would never I have residents that are literally living in the river they would never have been permitted today never they are on septic and I can tell you if you drive all the stuff they have in their yard is that took the boat yes oh Lord they they would never be allowed to live there today and um and we have been able to use a federal program to help buy some of them out and maybe we need to look at that if there's that special program I don't remember we talked about it before to help these people because with that money they can move they get moving assist they buy the house at full market value not the one that's 75% they get the house bought at full market value they get moving costs and down payment assistance so it's a I think it's a really good program but I personally don't think anyone should be living especially on the right side of alers Parkway in the river it puts our First Responders at risk when they have to go in there um and um do rescues all their guard garbage all their effluent is going down the river into the neighborhoods um Downstream um and and so we're going to one of the programs we're going to be looking at with the HUD money is to bring the county um sewers uh County utilities into that neighborhood and get them off the septic because we can't force them to come out apparently except for this Federal program that makes them raise up if you remember they had one house that was really high up a mobile home really high lifted and they got nothing yeah but they're still on septic so so it's still right yeah contamin so so there's some people that live in the coast they just went through this they don't want to go through it again they're going to find another place to live others want to stay there they got family they got friends their lifestyle is what they want so I I think this approach of looking at trying to what can we do to raise them at just that four or five foot level to keep them safe for major events like this we're going to be in great shape um I think that we we take that approach is what the people want and I think that we need to be responsive to that let them make the decision but let's go try to work with the federal government to go make this change they're I think so vulnerable right now that I think they're going to be attentive to say what's the best thing to go do I think anybody looks at

this if you could take 95 to 98% of the damage that would have been eliminated just by going to that number it's worth going so JP I know you got a great team behind you and if you can kind of like Get get us teed up for that it may carry some weight for us to go through the other thing we can do as well to try to help with our own utilities is all these canals concrete canals around this new technology that's out there you can actually put a living seaw wall it's a hard wall protects it helps water quality and if we raise and allow people to raise up maybe the seaw wall is three or 4 feet and you get a whole neighborhood to go around that all those peninsulas if they all line up together now you keeping all that water out in the Gulf too which is another great thing for a long-term plan to you know make it make us more resilient okay um I think you should let Brian go but I I don't think we've addressed what commissioner Oakley was talking about so I I kind of had that on my list to come back I I called it kind of the bottom of the hill sort of effect and I think the one thing I I'll add for color and either and my my guys in the corner Brian want to you know when when a property when a property is developed you know T um you know David talked a lot about uh post-development conditions and water that flows off of the four corners of that piece of property it can be no more than depending upon the level so I would argue that if if the site is designed and contains the water in the right way and not barring the specific example of the project you mentioned which we are looking into uh I would I would say that that water is contained and put into a storm water system uh that is then ensures that those post-development runoff conditions are met and so even though it it may look like this uh the amount of water that is Flowing off of that property should be no more than what what the intention of the regulations is and so if it's a 100-year flood I would maintain that you would have seen that amount of water in in the pre-development condition regardless of the post-development condition so I hope that makes sense and and I'm looking at these guys to say you know am I am I articulating that correctly yeah yeah and I just wanted to add too is is part of what we're doing on the planning and development side is we're updating our comprehensive plan so part of that includes future land use areas but then following that as part of our overall strategic plan is we're also looking to update the Land Development code and I think that's the opportunity that that then you have as um you know the governing body to take a look at are we at that right level is that 25 year number the right number or do we look at something more restrictive but but I think as as to Mr Armstrong's Point there's a trade-off to that and and that's going to be higher cost um less intense development and part of the challenge is is that when you're looking at a specific piece of property it's it's really about the intensity and

timing of when runoff is going to come off of the site and so if you were to look at something that's say 100% paved you're going to have a lot of intensity high flow right away versus an area that may not be developed and and and the challenge is is at some form of or or some level of rainfall you're still going to get flooding and run off from that site because the Crown's going to get so saturated that it has to move off site and so it's it's it's a difficult challenge that we have is trying to balance what is the acceptable risk um versus um that cost and so again I I would say that we're going to be going through a Land Development code update update and I think that's that would be an opportune time to think about are we at that right level for where we want to be at the county moving forward to and and also I was thinking when commissioner Oakley was speaking you know if if the rules are now that you have to be at a certain elevation and they built before there were rules right well you can't that if you didn't let them build to that elevation they they couldn't even build right so um we have to have that there's issue and what about like a neighborhood like Thousand Oaks well that's a that's an anomaly it's a long story yeah that's that's a self that's a self-inflicted anomaly um but I'm saying none of these programs would help those people in Thousand Oaks I mean buyouts and certain things well we we talked about before you got here okay um we can fill you in okay yeah well let me just help her though okay um and I know when you set a dentist appointment up for a year you even though we schedule a meeting itself we had we had emergenc mine was emergency mcy okay anyway so so we talk about water conveyance in that whole area and the water's got to flow out we talked about working with the associations to get them to do what they're supposed to do Brian's going to try to help us with that as well so uh if the water can flow out like Oakbridge doesn't flood and the reserve day Swift did a great job working with them to go get their to clean their water out it's a matter of getting that water to flow and if it can flow that whole situation it can get a lot better I mean they did built a little bit low because the the drought that we had but it could still get a lot better than what it is now if we can convey the water out where it needs to go okay thank you so if there's no other questions here for for Andy and his team um Brian I'd like just to kind of I don't know if there's anything to you'd like to touch on that maybe we didn't touch on or areas from what you've picked up from the Flavor of our conversations today I'd like to give you an opportunity to speak I appreciate that thanks for the invitation today um try and teach my folks to be to be brief bold and be gone so let see if I see if I can do that fortunately going last you we've covered most of the topics that I would I wanted to touch on

which were what do we do we talk about the te the technical uh assistance we provide we talked about permitting to a great extent um and then lastly structures and here's um the first thing I'd like to do is introduce my staff I brought them all here they're in the front row and I want you guys to meet them at the far right is Amber most of you probably know Ma Amber she's the liaison she's our government Affairs coordinate gentlemen the blue shirt this is Dr Mark Fulkerson uh there I I would wager that there is not a better Authority on the with Luchi River every Bend of it and how it flows um but Mark also assisted greatly um because you know everything on the east side either goes to the Wi Luchi or the Hillsboro and what Mark taught me is that the Hillsboro is really just a branch of the with Luchi so um he is well versed in that and we sent him over here he spent days riding around with uh the uh Dade City and folks in Dade City trying to decide do we close that hospital do we close that nursing homes and so he's there to think he also found the obstruction in the drainage the Fallen foot bridge that was the reason a lot of the water so you know Mark what a yman effort Mark put in during these hurricanes and I wanted to thank him publicly for that Janette is uh she's the money she's the project she's the one who uh her group does all the Watershed mapping they also do all the Cooperative funding and the district initiatives and then lastly Michelle Hopkins is the leader of our regulatory division all aspects of it from water use permitting to Erp so these are your folks and then lastly Chris is my general counsel he's just here to make sure I don't get in trouble he he gives me the look if I start the Stray so thank you again we got one of them more they they'll be here Frank oh Frank Frank Frank how do I put this Frank deals with our extra special characters that he we assigned him to help further them along uh instead of consuming all my staff's time he is our om budsman and uh he's also here to help they'll be here a little while afterwards uh if you have any questions and Chris will speak to you directly about the HOAs he's got a lot of information about that so with that what do we do tech support permitting and structures so when you hear structures most people think flood control structures right no we 20% of our structures are for flood control the other 80% is to hold water back they're conservation structures uh we're all familiar with impacts from pumping and modifications to drainage and what it does to the environment most of our structures are there to try and maintain some sort of hydrology for our environment and that's the balance in all of this we get the question a lot we heard I'm going to try and go through things that I heard that I didn't cover so why can't we just lower all these levels before storm well I've lived in the Tampa Bay area for 50 plus years and I can I can't even count on these hands and Toes how many times a hurricane was

going to come and hit Tampa Bay this is really the first time it ever did right in that 50 plus year period if I lower these because everybody who has been impacted say why don't you just lower it to the lowest level one you're going to impact the environment when it doesn't when the storm makes a crazy turn and two you're going to call me more often because your boat is sitting at the bottom of a lake bottom so that's all part of this balance of how much water how much time and here's the big thing about our structures not one of them has a pump all our structures are governed by gravity so for us to decide how much water we're going to release usually we get about a week maybe two weeks now when the storm's coming I can't empty a lake then we don't have the ability to move that much water that fast so it's a long-term plan how much we're going to let out Pray For Rain that it comes to fill them back up and not to the detriment of the environment because we're not allowed to do that either with control of these structures so most people don't understand that about our structures um like I said East Paso every water just wants to reach a level and that level is sea level whether it's above the ground getting out to the coast through the rivers getting out to the bay or Underground through drainage it all just wants to seek equilibrium so in that thought you have to consider this storm you know these riverine systems that reached out a mile and when they went back there's all these pock marks in the topography that the only water that's going is down and it takes forever and guess what things are still charged for so with every rain fall we get that level's just going to come right back up so that's why people are experiencing in these zones they've never seen it and why it's not going away because it's only outfalls through the ground and that's very slow and that has nothing to do with development that is not development that is nature that's nature so and then the other thing is to help answer this question about why don't we just lower everything this or do that we're actually going to have a workshop after our governing board it's more of a regional scale workshop on flows and floods a scenario based okay if we take historical data and we lowered that to that level here's what your Lake would look like you know most of the time if we did that here's the environmental impact that could happen so that's all going to be part of our Workshop uh after our board in March and that board will be held in Tampa um so we talked about a lot of things Erp rules the difference between 100 Year 200 years the impact that would have on infrastructure and costs and things of that nature U with that I'll just leave it open for any questions um if you have any I knew commission Mar thank you I I want to say your team's been phenomenal from work with John Panda to Amber John's gone right yeah everybody gets to

retire been phenomenal J Jason put up all the work we have done together and then you know this this board worked with you guys in that Cooperative program which we learned how to do it and you you took care of so many things timbero soliday Hills G Islands thousand Le uh Leisure Lane Palm Terrace we're working on that one by the way when we had the storm going on this summer and we're trying to take care of Palm Terrace along Ranch Road you guys were phenomenal working with it I thought the best thing to do was work on one like one part with the pawns we had but they DP wouldn't let us go do it but you let us go take down that spray field we had a good spot to go put the fill and I tell you you kept hundreds of people from going underwater again for weeks at a time which had been happening for so many years so I I want to just say that I would greatly appreciate working with you uh I do want to take a look at all the things we've talked about between reservoirs maybe some side drop offs that could be created with MD land we have right now um every bit of the way through and if there is a way that we can look at to write that letter to the Army Corps um love to do that and especially working on the conveyance down that Trinity area I think there's an opportunity there too um I want to uh jump on the Trinity area um when we um did the uh when we had all those meetings for the I guess the Trinity or Thousand Oaks task force what do we call it the flood Tas the flood task force for the Trinity area um you know and we really studied the flow and we learned that um bmp8 I'm pretty sure it is is water that goes under Trinity bulvard into panell County or or no but takes panell County Water and brings it under Little Road and and um the intent at the time when we were in the drought and had had the low water levels was to um bring the water into the Wetland system there um we once the pumping um was regulated and the water table came up we don't need pelis water coming into um Thousand Oaks so uh we never went as far as we looked at turning off bmp8 and letting that water go go south instead of coming bringing it back in is that a possibility that we could look at that that one and um let them not worry about rehydrating Thousand Oaks that doesn't need it anymore um so that's one and two um more often than not now little road is going underwater and big rain events and little road is part of the Cy system which is for those who don't know that's part of the hurricane evacuation system system for um penel County that's coming up uh if they're coming up north uh and then we have to shut it down and that's not that's not a good system so that's why I'm I have concerns about that the flow in the Trinity area and I really want someone to look at those ponds along Trinity Boulevard that are never uh they're always full and shouldn't they go down in a when it's drier depends on how they were designed so um I I don't I don't understand why they they never go down um but I'd

really like to look at bmp8 and I'd really like to understand a solution for that little road area between Trinity Boulevard and State Road 54 if I could with that too yeah you it's a phenomenal point when we look at all the 10 different bmps that were out there that was one that was looked let that water flow let it go suppos to go not not be redirected it's redirected to go into thousand o I will say at Heritage Springs I did play let's say this spring that water level did drop down a bit you saw you saw on bouard uh just inheritage Springs now okay no you got to look at the ones along TR oh no no you mentioned her Springs so I just want to bring it up that the water levels did drop there okay now Downstream could have been some blocks so so be it um you mentioned uh that there were some blockages along the Hillsboro River oh with Luchi sorry Ron I didn't see you up um I don't know anyone who goes down our Rivers like the ankat here and the pitler chest Cody and looks for blockages and that's that's what I'm talking about when they cleared them out uh a decade ago on parts of the enk and I really think we need to look at that commissioner Oakley okay basically I want to talk about tank Lake area in that area behind the hospital and and some of those issues I think when morning Side Drive comes in give us the best opportunity ever to clear that up for passing in Hills on that Northern side ever since I was a swift Mo from 07 to 11 there's been flooding and issues there there's a house been built in the last five or six years maybe a little longer than that in in actually in the flood plane of of that Lake that P Lake on the north side of uh pastan Hills which are there one of the families that are screaming and hollering about the water over their Road and but they're in the lake did they get a permit did you look I've got to look back I got to find that but somehow they got a permit to be able and they're in a flood zone but they're screaming for help from the county and actually they're on private property and they built in a flood zone they built in a lake and they want to know about well look at my road it's covered with water there's nothing we can do it's a private road they can build and put dirt in on it but I think I heard toward the end of last week the state was going to reach in and help us with that area did I hear something like that on on the tank Lake Area I believe we end I think there's an opportunity with the Evans family and the morning Side Drive coming through there they're talking about possibly selling some of that tank Lake area that they don't need but for Waterway we'll be able to maybe do some storage along there and also release it to go to out to withi under under 301 I think that needs to be looked at under 301 cuz it's it's pretty grown up now but I remember way back W Maybe when I was at Swift mode shortly thereafter we dug that Canal all the way from Lake to I think all the way through all the way to where it would go toward the river and it flows that way but I've

never I've been there my entire life and the first time I ever saw it come up and go underneath 301 come back yeah so but I think there's a real opportunity with that building of that more inside Drive uh to correct that where it won't be a problem in the future so and and I believe it's one that's some monies are prepared to build the road and they're going to actually take care of some that drainage so commissioner Oley um buddy Lake you know had that sinkhole thing uh did it fill back up in this rain event or is it still um I hadn't I hadn't seen that I don't think it filled back up but there's because that fact is uh that's environmental and its nature yeah there's no way to correct that you can't go in F water send water over there if they're so much lower than everybody and no it's just going to reach groundwater level yeah just whatever the ground level is that's what it's going to be so it's interesting that it didn't fill it back up I don't know if it has or not yeah but that's what I'm curious about so has been some of the issue we got with um tank Lake area is we're trying to the trying to pump water over that over that old railroad track bed and there's there is there's a pipe in there that will take water out but that if that pipe had been lowered a foot or so lower than it is today a lot of that water would go out prior to flooding some of those homes there pass down Hills I I can tell you not to belabor this discussion but if you want to get with Mark after this he he'll be able to describe the majority of how everything flows there and what potentially could help and could not help right okay yeah he'll help you that' be good and the interesting thing about Reser you know in these low areas you can't store water underwater so there's no digging everything has to be built up from ground surface we don't have much storage capacity in our our but in that tank Lake some of that shallow that storage we could make that storage a little bit better yeah and and help the flow at the same time so yeah I think there's an opportunity there that not necessarily a savings of money but there's money being used for certain thing and then the benefit is also getting spent drainage could I ask about Silver Oaks and um is there any kind of possible solution for them and how many houses got in harms way uh in this last storm well U silver in Silver Oaks the real problem came when when Smith Brothers uh decide they're going to build homes in the lake barile M and I said that's been an issue entire time is that in the county or the city that's I think that part of that's in the county I think so the the so I'll jump in um the golf course itself is is within the city um there's Parts in the area there there that are within the county South especially um we just recently went to Andy's LMS meeting Public Works um at the request of our uh County Administrator to make sure that that project called The Zephyr Creek Canal is going to be on the LMS um strategy for consideration for funding in the future

it's a three part part project so there's a downstream outfall which will uncork much of that system there's the middle area that will improve uh conveyance and drainage through that area and then there's the third part of that Upstream which will help move some of that water and our partners from Zephyr Hills are here as well um to try to move some of that water out of the golf course quicker by by improving the conveyance system that's at the southern end of that golf course and allow for that to to drain AC underneath the road into that Zephyr Creek system so we we are looking at ways um to to implement that three-part project to help that Golf Course drain faster I know if there's a pump system or something we'll take that water and put it over trying to think of the road now cross the way where going that P before G gager Pine when gager Pine was put in and done by the county it took about 1100 homes out of out of flood zone that are actually in bmar acres and uh there were people there that actually was taking a little more time than thought it should but there were people that could not afford flood insurance and they were being required to buy it but when gager Lake came in it it did that it took 1100 homes out of the flood plane was a great Improvement but I always thought there was some way that maybe either from the north end or or even right there at the road on on island island that there's some kind of pump system where it would gather water and actually pump it as it as it gathers rather than it just build up and then has a hard time getting on down the creek system so when you move water when you move water you're putting it on someone else well you got to be careful how quick you move it you to be careful uh and in this instance zepher Creek feeds Hillsboro River Hills Hillsboro River that water goes behind the flood detention area so my 27 square miles are full of water M and I really have to manage the flow there because I've got Cypress Creek that comes unabated into the Hillsboro River to that I then have to pop off into Tampa Bay bypass Canal if I can if it's not full so just remember everything from Pasco is either going to the coast or trying to get through Hillsboro County to go out to the Tampa Bay so it's all Pasco County Water that's what I've always said the hillsb river is Pasco County Water and gets to use it for a cheap amount yeah I know when I was at Swift somebody asked why do you go all these uh different tours and all that I said well I'm sitting at that Das up there I said someday somebody's going to ask me a question and if I don't go to all these chours I won't know how to answer that question but I spend a lot of time understanding how everything flows but I never thought about too much about hills River you want it to get to hillsbor River but yet when it when it goes in Hillsboro River it still affects somebody down the line that's right um Mo's Bridge more specifically so the more water you put through the longer I have to close Moors Bridge you're right

I got you I have a question about zeper hills I see Steve here Steve are you the only one here from Zill all right so um and I'm sorry I can't David David's big blocker over there um are you guys in the uh participating in the nfip I'm not sure that's what I that's why I was wondering yeah and what what CRS level are you at how do you guys not know that I'm kind of surprised that you don't know it no no offense or anything especially after going through a hurricane you should absolutely know what level you're at and and and I'm wondering if I'm hearing that houses are built in a river in a lake Bottom did are they built to the requirements of FEMA at a certain elevation because you we're getting all the calls about them being flooded um but all them part of U but how okay how can you have just gone through two hurricanes and not know your FEMA numbers I don't I'm sorry I'll find out but you're s your manager we don't know it right now but our our building official probably does but he's not here so commissioner I believe that even though the municipalities have their own CRS working group they fall under our County rating of a five cuz we have a working group together with all the municipalities that meet um I think it's quarterly now okay so every um but Newport Richie is not a five well you got to remember uh the level of water that came to the coast in Pasco can is much different than the level water went through the city yeah but they still dealing with FEMA I understand yeah um well I I'm guessing that Newport Richie is not a five um um we have um Mr Alman here might as well put my hand on for you oh you're D City he's D City oh well do you remember what Newport Richie was I've got Newport Richie shirt on today he work C I'm not sure what I know that we just had a lot of discussion and working on that so I suspect and I believe we are in the program because I know I know Newport Richie is in the program and you have a five year accumulative and I wondered if since it's so strict that your CRS rating is much lower than ours like a two like pelis it's not that level it's not that I'm finding out right now um again the number escapes me um if I if I have the opportunity though I'd like to at least make sure this group is aware as I know uh that commissioner Mariano is that we have in May the summit of the regional planning Council and I hope that as many people that are here and I want to commend Pasco County because at the last Summit I think Pasco had more people there to participate uh but those Regional action plans and some of the things that are going on there and some of the great minds to to put on that particularly I also want to thank Swift for the last year or two you've had attendance at that and it's helpful for them to be on our resiliency uh

steering committee um so I'm excited that everybody's working together I'm more excited the opportunity to work together with you on this large funding that's coming through HUD which is you know badly needed not only for the housing everyone's talking about but also for some of the economic recovery because all three of our cities that are here today zeper Hill state city and Newport Richie are really on an upward Motion in terms of uh being a good place to be and being an attractive part of your county it's been a long time since we've had this kind of relationship with you um and we have a lot of things I think we'd like to contribute as well so um I look forward to that our city manager put in attend uh so uh she allowed me to be here to speak for her um and then she'll quickly find out what I've had to say um but we are working on a lot of uh things and our business Community flooded on Main Street so as you talk about specific locations we had a lot of offices uh and we have a lot of joint assets our sewer plant our Green Key Beach uh our purchases on Highway 19 in Maine so um this is a great opportunity storm water should be a part of it and uh I'm speaking so much because I am chairman of that steering committee and I've just been uh I've been flooded with storm water conversation for years years u in that role uh and I never liked storm water when I first got on the city council back in the 80s uh but now I can realize just how critical it is to our future is Port Richie here anyone from Port Richie but thank you for letting chair yep um yeah and then I wanted to say something about National life insurance program and and uh Comm uh councilman as we talked before um and I did it publicly but the that green key project as well as being a big stor Water Project work with Swift Mud getting State funding I think putting that road up is a really good thing and question for you Leisure Beach vuran area how much water did you get in in that area do you know I'm not aware um but I will tell you that uh you have some ideas and I look forward to having the staff and the engineers and the folks with knowledge to help us to make it the best it can be if that means shuffling things around before we get too far down the road with the design of that uh might be a good uh opportunity to yeah I'd like to know what happened at leisure I didn't Jack I might be able to give you some insight I talked to somebody yesterday and they said they got s feet 7et in their house yeah 7et they own a business right on the water and they got s feet all you know what I meant I meant to say Leisure Lane in the city yeah yeah Leisure Lane so yeah so Leisure Lane thank you so at leisure lane one of the things we struggled with was couldn't build in a flood zone if we were able to like get that bf number down that whole area might be a lot easier to go uh put uh homes in there without having to worry about that flood elevation um Talk did you want to answer

that because I was going to talk at a higher level oh no I was going to answer your question about the ratings oh okay so both the City of Newport Richie and Port Richie their rating is a seven a seven but have a fiveyear accumulative fe so that's so those are independent of each other yeah so they they might have not done some of the activities that an that makes them eligible to bring that score down just s to a five I mean to a six so there's all sorts of activities you can do and it's all Point based so their point total might not have made it enough to bring it down to a six a five or a four we we have voted in the last couple CP months to do things to talk about those issues to bring it down so I know we've been taking a action as a as a city council interesting um one thing I wanted to touch on this is a PO government policy um decision I think but we've talked about it at noik and if you you know if you're you you can't help but see in the news the flooding now in Kentucky what happened in North Carolina the fires in California um that there's been discussion of that should everyone be paying into something into this emergency fund and if everyone was paying something then it would be lower for everybody um but so many people get caught um I know my cousin lost her place in Pacific Palisades they they couldn't even get fire Insurance income tax we all pay well there just there's just been discussion is it time for a National Fund um I'm not saying I'm for or against it it's just it's one of those Roi things I mean if everyone pays in proportionately maybe it helps everybody do is finding enough money cover before you get on that road think about nfip what are we paying we got people that can't even afford to buy the insurance well that's because fewer people are paying into it because they can't afford it I know but if more people were paying into it would it be less but they raised the prices up the Federal program raised the prices up over the past 5 years like 10 20% and that forced a lot of people out so I'm not going to have faith in the federal government to put a big program together to make this FL also for bringing it to the state level could be a state issue right now you get a better shot um and like I said I I don't I I don't know the pros or cons of it but there are people smarter than me discussing it and I mean I'm I'm always willing to listen to something and show me the numbers and see if it makes sense and then if it doesn't make sense then you don't you don't go down that path but um Mr carala yes no um unless there's any further questions for our guests I'll happily kind of wrap up here uh you know Brian thank you for for being here today and and for bringing your team uh with you there may be some some post uh post Workshop conversations I'm sure just appreciate all that you guys do it's it's it's truly uh across the 16 County area the Water Management District

really does great work in terms of water supply but in this particular case you know flood uh flood reduction and abatement again thank you to our MERS municipalities who joined too uh thank you for being out here uh this is this is not a this is a Pasco County issue right this is this is global and so our cities are part of that and and I I Echo your sentiment I'm happy to see the relationships that we have councilman Alman with uh with the various cities it's it has been it has been great uh to the team thank you I appreciate you and your efforts and and working with pulling together presentations working with your teams to to educate uh both the board and and of course the public on what it is that we currently do do sounds like we do do a lot uh but always more more can be done and so we'll take away from this uh I've pulled together some action items and things that uh that we will certainly look into um and and see if there's track that can be gained so with that Madam chair I do have one more question um when we talk about the 2,000 homes that we think were substantially damaged I guess it's a JP question I can't see him um JP does that is that County only or does that include homes within the city limits so do does uh Newport Richie uh zephra Hills Dade City I don't know if D City had any but do we have a number from those cities as well 53 separ substantially damaged and Newport Richie I know you had them on the river yeah I you know I was given a number of a thousand of homes that were damaged as of substantially damaged I don't have I haven't heard that number but I I suspect it is uh you know in the hundreds well we I think we'd love to have to have be more informed I'd like to have the total numbers of the county we'll reach up to and coordinate all right great Port Richie probably has some too in closing what was what was your three Bs B and what beone I love thatone put that on your wall well we're finishing before 12 so we're doing great here let's put that on starky's list every who ran the shortest meeing ever Jack Jack and whatever you that didn't count that count I did listen to that meeting by the way matter of fact in that meeting he did run a very good meeting there wasn't much in that meeting oh yeah [Music] [Laughter] [Music]

depend on you to keep them healthy excess fertilizer grass clippings trash oils and pet waste wash into gutters and storm drains when it rains storm water carries these pollutants directly into our lakes and rivers creating an unhealthy environment for fish water foul and other Aquatic animals storm drains are meant for clean rainwater most other discharges are illegal if you suspect an illicit discharge please contact Pasco County Department of Public Works at 72783 43611